Things GM could have learned from Oldsmobile

I have to say, while I love Aleros for what they are, one car I sold a ton of new that I never gave enough credit is the Intrigue. From '00-'02, it was probably my personal best-selling new car. I just took an early lunch break, and took a used '02 Intrigue GL for a spin, after not driving one in a couple years. WOW...is this thing better than my GP, and the new GP for that matter, in so many ways...

1) Interior design. The ergonomics, with the steering wheel mounted cruise, easy digital climate control, and some other things are nicer than other period W bodies.

2) Quality of dash and door panel materials. They are so far above my GP, I don't even know where to start.

3) Quality of leather on the seats. Admittedly, the newer leather in the Envoy/TrailBlazers seems similar, but the Intrigue's is so much better than the vinyl-like crap in my Grand Prix, its unbelievable.

4) The Shortstar is smoother, quieter, more refined-sounding and more powerful than the 3800, period. Its way sportier sounding than the vaccum cleaner noises my car makes at WOT.

5) 2 tone dash materials. Who would've thought GM could do more than monotone grey or black? Although, admittedly they finally caught onto this one...

In summary, everything I like about the newer cars like the G6 was already partially addressed in the Intrigues years ago. When I was a little younger (say, 22 versus my ripe old 25 now :D ), all I cared about was 0-60 and how cool it looked on the outside. Obviously, my GP is still a better looking car on the outside, IMO. But, if I had to buy a daily driver today, if it came down to a used Intrigue vs. a used Grand Prix (the way it did when I bought the GP 2 1/2 years ago), I'd be hard pressed to not take the Intrigue.

Its amazing GM put out a car that nice when all their other mid sizes were so crappy by comparison. The 3.5 and the interior alone make the Intrigue the best of the 4 W bodies, IMO. Those cars had a panache I had no appreciation for when they were new. I often find myself becoming less impressed with car designs as they age...this Intrigue and my own Z28 are about the only 2 cars I can think of that I actually like more now that they're older!

It amazes me how many Oldsmobile threads or threads that are turned into Olds discussions are on this board. You can put me in the boat that wishes Olds was still here. Considering the improvements GM has made since then, Olds would really be shining right now.

Anyways I thought I would share our reasons for buying our Intrigue. When we set out to get my wife a new car, she wanted a mid-size sedan. The first thing that came into my mind was a Grand Prix,.....GTP that is. We drove a few and I was sold, but she didn't like them, so that was out. Next we tried a Olds Alero V6, very nice car running car with the V6, very nice inside and out. The problem we had with the Alero was it was just a little to small for what we were looking for, since we were trading in a Cavalier we wanted something bigger. So a W-Body was a must at that point. Next we drove a Impala, we both liked the looks of the Impala, but the interior was a turn off for us.
My sister has a Regal, and with the GS, I would be back in GTP territory and I like the looks of those on the outside, but again the interior was a big turn off. Next on the list was the Intrigue, but none of the dealers around had one at the time. A few weeks later we found one, and what sold me on the car was the interior, and the handling dynamics of this FWD car. A far as the interior it was so nice to see something not grey from GM and with the sunroof the interior is acutally bright. The quality of materials and fit'n finish was so above other W-Bodies at the time.
We just liked everything about the car, the power of the 3.5L was good, not at the levels of the supercharged 3.8, but the smoothness and higher reving 3.5L was a good trade off, and with a CAI it makes some really good noises for a V6.
The outside styling of the Intrigue is kind of strange. From some angles it looks just like any regular 4-door sedan, and from other angles it seems to have a low hunkerd down aggressive look to it.

The Intrigue has been a great car, unbeatable for the price vs features on this car, we are very happy with it.

By the way, I am another person who is sold on heated seats, after having them in the Intrique, can't do winters without them.

Buick now = Olds

30th,
Actually, what got me thinking to drive the Intrigue today was reading your Olds posts in the other thread...I got to work and realized that blue was made after '00, as ours is an '02 in the Navy/Neutral leather yours is.

I had the same dilemna you guys had...in '02, I wanted an Alero, but felt like they were a little small. To be frank, because I sold too many Intrigues to people over 65, I thought they were a little too "old" for me. I know the Alero is basically a 7/8 scale Intrigue, but the style is different enough that the Alero seemed sportier to me. After getting over the size issue, I ended up purchasing my old Grand Am brand new because I was afraid of Olds resale value after my dad talked me out of it (and rightfully so)...but I ended up hating the inside of my Grand Am with a passion. So in the end, now I have the GP.

In reality, if I had bought the Alero in '02, I'd still have it now!! I would have bought a GLS coupe, and would likely love it as much as my GP. Its funny, because when I bought the GP in October '03, originally I was going to trade the GA on an ordered '04 Alero GLS coupe, but got talked out of it again by one of the guys here :( Resale again was the issue that stopped me. So then, it ended up between a used Intrigue and my GP, and obviously I picked the GP.

I love my GP, and have come to terms with the fact that the 3800 is smooth, bulletproof and gives great MPG, but is a little down on power and sound to the Intrigue. I've also come to terms with the fact that the interior, while a nice design, can't hold a candle to either the Alero or Intrigue. If I hadn't listened to other people though, I'd have a Polo Green/Neutral leather loaded Alero GLS coupe with the gold package and the FE3 suspension though. What a sweet little sporty/luxury car that would have been. Oh well...

Chrome,
Maybe Buick will end up being Olds, but it has a long way to go. The LaCrosse is not nearly as stylish as the Intrigue was when it debuted in '98...it isn't even as stylish as the Intrigue is NOW, IMO. The Intrigue actually won a comparison against the Camry and Accord in '98...can we say the same for the LaCrosse? Not even close. And the Lucerne, while a nice car, doesn't have half the style the '01 Aurora had... :(

Roommate had a '98 Intrigue. Really surprised how nice the interior was. Nicely textured black plastic, well-sculpted dash, decent-feeling controls. I sat in a bunch of GM cars at the autoshow last year, most didn't compare interior-wise.

You know what GM should learn from Olds? That if you're going to run a division....maybe the people running it shouldn't be ashamed of it's heritage. Maybe....just maybe, you should puff up your chest and be proud of it. And if you can't at least pretend....you should resign or be replaced. I mean Jeeeeeze, those nimrods were too ashamed to put an Oldsmobile emblem on the Aurora. How stupid!

In their heyday, like before the mid '70s, when you said "Oldsmobile", someone would invariably respond "oh they have good pickup". For all you guys who weren't around in the 60's and early '70's, how can I describe how people thought of Oldsmobile's image? Lemme see.....think of what GM wants Saturn to become one day in the future, but with an available highly respected Rocket V8 ....think of...I don't know... a larger Saturn Aura with a Hemi....but even beyond that.

This was the powerful image those numbskulls running Olds flushed down the crapper in less than two decades.

Today's Buick equalling Olds? Hardly.

That, in a word, sums up pretty much everything about why Olds croaked. I always said, they had the best cars NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, knew about from '99-'02. My average Alero buyer (keep in mind, even in '02, well after the December '00 announcement...which came only 2 months after I started at the dealership we STILL sold more Olds than Pontiac) would say to me "I had an Alero as a rental, and it was an awesome little car. I need a new car...show me one," but when it came to the Intrigue? RIGHT...I sold a ton personally, but many didn't. What helped me? Having the '98 Car and Driver road test in my desk of when the Intrigue SPANKED the Accord and Camry. Even in '02, that was praise enough to sell a ton of Intrigues for me.

Olds had style. Olds had flair. Olds even managed to build a decent car well into the '80s. My parents had an '85 Calais, back when the N Bodies debuted. It was well screwed together, got 38 MPG highway on road trips with its bulletproof, and torquey but loud Iron Duke, and in 7 years and 130k miles my dad put on one set of brakes, one set of tires, and a battery. It never broke down once. Never failed to start. Never leaked a drop of anything. 2 things broke...the radio display (what GM didn't do that in the '80s), and when it was cold, the speedometer would go straight to 45 and stay there until the car warmed up. That was it. None of this "Road to Redemption" gloom and doom crap. It was a classy looking car for that time, with a nice interior (way better than a period Grand Am), quality materials (yes, there were '80s GM cars that looked good on the inside) and a nice look on the outside. Sure, the 105hp, 13" wheels, 3 speed AT and lack of PW and PL look insane today...but back then, these cars were really nice.

What car do I personally believe killed Olds? I think the Acheiva alone helped contribute to the death of Olds. We didn't sell any. No one sold any. What an awful, crappy, terrible looking car. They were fairly reliable, and with the old H.O. Quad 4 SCs and SCXs (W41 package, anyone?? :D ) were fun as hell. When I was younger, I wanted a W41 (195hp Q4 + 5 speed + Handling package = Showroom Stock success for Olds, and a fun car) bad, and would still like one for a quirky run-around car someday. I'm sure I'll never find one, and wouldn't know what to do with one if I did...I've only seen 1 in my lifetime.

But, picture Honda not having a Civic for 7 model years. Now think of how Olds tried to turn itself around without ANY competitive smaller car. The Alero was a smash hit, but it was too little, too late.

And yes Charlie, I agree...Olds had swagger, but it didn't scream it loud enough. I think even today, a '95 Aurora is a sweet looking car.

It also didn't help much when all those marketing geniuses decided to name half the carline "Cutlass".

Do I sound bitter? You betcha!

It was soooooooooo obvious for so many years - even to the casual observer - that these people were really screwing the Oldsmobile pooch. Was there no one on board over there with any little rocket ships flowing through their veins????????

There were glimmers of hope...the W41 SCX, the Aurora for sure, and then the later cars...but it was all too little, too late. And yes, I am bitter as hell, too. I wanted my OSV Alero or my Northstar OSV Intrigue :(

http://www.autodeadline.com/detail?source=Oldsmobile&mid=WKA2000103131525&mime=JPG:cool:

http://www.autodeadline.com/detail?source=Oldsmobile&mid=WKA2000103131631&mime=JPG:cool:

http://www.autodeadline.com/detail?source=Oldsmobile&mid=WKA2000103131426&mime=JPG

The 3.5 would have been sweet in the Alero

http://www.netcarshow.com/oldsmobile/2000-alero_osv/800x600/wallpaper_02.htm

You bastard, you had to post those...didn't you?? :D

Thanks for the memories, man. I remember when that car was first shown...what a great looking car...all the Alero needed was a smoother engine (3400 has power, but sounds like a bag of marbles) and it really would have been first-class IMO. The 3400 in my GA GT was just too friggen coarse...

<----------------- Another Olds guy who is pissed off they don't exist anymore.

I was holding out hope for them to possibly return at some point, but with all the financial woes GM has, I doubt it will ever happen now. Oh well, I did my part, and restored one of their old Muscle Cars. Their are still a bunch of us in the OCA that love these cars, and really wish they were still making them.

I could see things beginning to slip at Olds all the way from 1979.

Case and point: The 1979 Hurst/Olds W30. Here was Oldsmobile's top performance offering, yet it didn't get Old's top engine....the 403. Pure politics. The 403 could have been part of the package just as easily as the R code 350 was....that is by building no more than 9,999 units. Under 10,000 and it would have been zero cost. No need to re-certify. Exactly how they slipped the 350 in the G-body Cutlass.

For whatever obscene reason, (not enough clout?, not enough balls?, not enough commitment?), Olds didn't/couldn't use it's own ballsiest motor in it's own ballsiest car. Yet, Pontiac had no problem getting tens of thousands of Olds 403's in Trans Ams and Formulas that year.

Go figure.

I suppose you all forget about the mid90s highest resale W-bodie that Olds had? The Olds Cutty Convert! The last/only w-body convertable. Try to find one under $4k now and its probably junk. Good cutty verts still go for $5k+. A highschool friend had one but was an idiot for trading it in for a base Subi Impreza.

...all the Alero needed was a smoother engine (3400 has power, but sounds like a bag of marbles) and it really would have been first-class IMO. The 3400 in my GA GT was just too friggen coarse...

I recently drove a 3400-equipped N-body again. That engine has incredible throttle response and boatloads of torque for the size the car. It makes driving it in the city almost as much fun as my Z28. And its fuel economy was better than the last Cobalt I drove too, even with me driving like a jackass :D. Too bad GM couldn't figure out how to design an intake gasket for it (what is this, 1943?), but once you get that out of the way it's a pretty sturdy package.

I loved my Alero. It was a great car. I think they would have done wonderfully if Olds had continued and they had recieved updates. Even the interior was nice, which at that time was a miracle for GM.
http://gallery.evolutionm.net/data/500/961905310011-med.jpg
http://gallery.evolutionm.net/data/500/961905310006-med.jpg

Ok I tried to post images, but instead the links showed up, whats the secret?

http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2000/10/31/WKA2000103131525_pv.jpg
http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2000/10/31/WKA2000103131631_pv.jpg
http://w02.us/pv/WKA/2000/10/31/WKA2000103131426_pv.jpg

The 3.5 would have been sweet in the Alero

http://www.netcarshow.com/oldsmobile/2000-alero_osv/800x600/wallpaper_02.jpg
There you go

And yes Charlie, I agree...Olds had swagger, but it didn't scream it loud enough. I think even today, a '95 Aurora is a sweet looking car.
I have to agree, I think the last couple of model year Auroras, Intrigues and Aleros would look perfectly at home in the 2006 line up..
Like a famous prize fighter, went out at their Peak. :(
(I owned an pristine '81 Cutlass Supeme, triple Dark Blue, I loved everything about that car BUT, the then under-powered, 2bbl carbed 3.8 Liter...V8 swaps on these were as common as colds...403's fit like a glove. :cool: )

Pontiac NEEDS those body treatments on that Red Alero, now that's EXCITING!..

(BTW, not to sidetrack, wouldn't the GTO look GREAT with a Wide-Body Kit, and a similar treatment as the Red Alero pictured in the post above?)

I will jump in to the Oldsmobile thread like I always do, just to lament their death. I had a 1986 Cutlass Supreme through high school and college. I bought it with 82,000 miles and it finally expired at 177,000 miles. It got 3 fuel pumps, one set of door hinges (those were some heavy doors), 2 front shocks, head gaskets, and repairs from being broadsided at 50 mph by a Hyundai (I could have drove it away except for the broken motor mounts. The 307 was bulletproof. It leaked a bit, but it still ran strong with 177,000 on it. The transmission and body (major paint fade and creeping rust) had finally had enough. I drove it like I stole it for 90,000 miles and 7 years.

Pontiac NEEDS those body treatments on that Red Alero, now that's EXCITING!..

(BTW, not to sidetrack, wouldn't the GTO look GREAT with a Wide-Body Kit, and a similar treatment as the Red Alero pictured in the post above?)



You're kidding right? That body kit is retarded. I traded in an alero when i bought my GTO. I wouldn't have owned either car if they had any kind of gfx that looked so completely out of place on them.

i miss olds *sniff sniff* i had a 99 alero and i loved that car. wish i could have owned a 4.0 aurora. *drool*