5th Gen Firebird? And thoughts about future Camaro

Has there been any speculation on a 5th Generation Bird? Or is my favorite car done forever (at least for now)? And is it really that big of a deal of how many options there are for the future Camaro as long as there is an option to have a V8 with over 350 horses? I don't care if the SS or the Z28 is the top model as long as one of them can put a Mustang or Challenger in it's place, same with the CTS-V, STS-V, and GTO. What I would love to see on the new Camaro are some things that were on the Dick Harrel Camaro's. Such as rear fender flares, stagard stance, possibly and option for some deep dish rims in the rear, and an option for whatever kind of wing those badboys have. A 427 option for the new Camaros would be nice, but not practical, and I doubt GM will ever have another car that will come close to performing with the Vette at the same time. Those are some things I would like to see, but doubt anything like that would ever happen, we'll just have to wait and see in January!

Sadly it doesn't look like we will be getting a new Firebird.

Sadly it doesn't look like we will be getting a new Firebird.

the car fits perfectly into pontiac's image... i dont imagine why they wouldnt do badge engeneering... it fits in perfectly... and often pontiac's image is prefered a bit more... expecially by the pontiac people :)

well seeing as there is always a good side and bad side to things, at least my car will be more of a collector's if I hold on to it just like everyone else who owns a bird, and the bad there won't be anymore!!!! At least the Firebird's and Trans Ams always looked that much better than Camaros!!!

there are already companys looking into firebird nose and rear bumper conversions :) no pics or details just we will have to see

just as long as it dosnt look like that dreaded Chevelle that company did out of the new GTO...talk about someone with to much money and no stylin brains..:eek:

It would seem to me that adding a Firebird to the Pontiac line would dilute both Camaro and GTO sales.

Though Firebird looks dead at the moment things can change quickly. For instance in a few years when the Camaro comes out, what happens if its wildly popular, lets say surpassing Mustang sales, then I think chances could improve for a return of the Firebird. On the down side the only problem is GM is trying to eliminate overlap, and a Firebird could be considered overlap.

The horsepower rules have change at GM. The Corvette remains the top performer, but many cars in GMs lineup have just as much and a few have more hp than the C6 (base). A few years ago, that would have been unheard of.

the car fits perfectly into pontiac's image... i dont imagine why they wouldnt do badge engeneering... it fits in perfectly... and often pontiac's image is prefered a bit more... expecially by the pontiac people :)
The problem is that the Pontiac image is still incoherent and/or wrong at this stage. Pontiac as the American BMW wasn't ever going to pan out in my opinion. I, along with various other members on this board, think that Pontiac should be more Mazda like in their offerings. They at least have a Miata competitor now, but it would be nice to have something in the RX8 class, ie sports car.

I don't think you can really dilute GTO sales by much at this point, and as for Camaro sales... too bad :)

How do we know it won't be Camaro sales diluting those of the Firebird?

Alot of people on this board seem against the Bird coming back; some of them have good reasons for it, and some guys just seem to hate it. I would love to see it come back though. If a new Bird was modern, and the Camaro is retro, I would go with the Bird. Make the Bird AWD. I know we have all discussed this on here before, but I would like to see it come back at some point in the decently near future. Alot of it will depend on the Camaro's success, so keep your fingered crossed for it if you want any likely chance at all of the Bird returning.

Alot of people on this board seem against the Bird coming back; some of them have good reasons for it, and some guys just seem to hate it. I would love to see it come back though. If a new Bird was modern, and the Camaro is retro, I would go with the Bird. Make the Bird AWD. I know we have all discussed this on here before, but I would like to see it come back at some point in the decently near future. Alot of it will depend on the Camaro's success, so keep your fingered crossed for it if you want any likely chance at all of the Bird returning.
The problem I see with that idea is that, say there is a set amount of money that can be spent on a Camaro... Well when you take a chunk of that away from Camaro to make the parts to make any firebird that obviously takes away from the Camaro... When you make it substatialy differenta by going modern instead of whatever the Camaro is going to be, that takes a bigger chunk, and AWD the same. So now you have a watered down Camaro just so you can have a half assed attempt at 2 cars instead of a full attempt at one car. I think focusing the efforts on a Camaro alone will make that much better end results. While both cars have a strong history and a lot of followers, I think the Camaro is going to benifit greatly by not having the firebird around. I dont know if something else is going to be a platform mate though.

The problem I see with that idea is that, say there is a set amount of money that can be spent on a Camaro... Well when you take a chunk of that away from Camaro to make the parts to make any firebird that obviously takes away from the Camaro... When you make it substatialy differenta by going modern instead of whatever the Camaro is going to be, that takes a bigger chunk, and AWD the same. So now you have a watered down Camaro just so you can have a half assed attempt at 2 cars instead of a full attempt at one car. I think focusing the efforts on a Camaro alone will make that much better end results. While both cars have a strong history and a lot of followers, I think the Camaro is going to benifit greatly by not having the firebird around. I dont know if something else is going to be a platform mate though.

I completely understand where you are coming from. My point was that if Camaro sells were really good, and GM was looking to draw in even more customers that didn't take to the styling of the Camaro, they could have an alternative. If Camaro sells are only so-so, it is doubtful to see a Firebird return at all. I don't think the budget would be as split this time between both Bird and Maro as much this time around either. There are supposedly many more cars being built off of the same platform as the Camaro this time around, although obviously the Camaros platform will be altered to some degree to account for its ponycarness.

If Pontiac was to foot the bill for the changes that result in the Firebird, then how exactly is that money that is taken away from Camaro? How is engineering money split up among the brands at GM?

If Pontiac was to foot the bill for the changes that result in the Firebird, then how exactly is that money that is taken away from Camaro? How is engineering money split up among the brands at GM?

The 4th gen Firebird ate up an inordinate amount of the F-car budget.....leaving little for Camaro.

The horsepower rules have change at GM. The Corvette remains the top performer, but many cars in GMs lineup have just as much and a few have more hp than the C6 (base). A few years ago, that would have been unheard of.

Not really.

Grand National
GNX
Typhoon
Syclone
Trans Am Turbo
Trans Am T/A 6.6

That's just off the top of my head.

Actually the rule is that nothing IN THE CHEVROLET SHOWROOM can surpass the Corvette's performance. ;)

The 4th gen Firebird ate up an inordinate amount of the F-car budget.....leaving little for Camaro.

Ain't that the truth! :bow:

Anyone want to count how many noses, hoods, tail lights, and rear bumpers the Firebird line got during the 4th gen years compared to Camaro? :shock:

Keep in mind, Camaro sold in much higher numbers than the Firebird.

the problem with sports cars is styling is also important aside from performance... thus increases reasoning to do an overlap...

when you need an aveo or cobalt... you dont need 5 choices from one company... when you are looking for a midsized sedan, you dont need 5 to chose from, you will only pick between 2 or 3...

with sports cars however... the camaro for me... used to be awesome, but I have never owned one... only 2 firebirds... and now the camaro styling (4th gen) seemed to bland... too smooth, i'm more for the boy racer look that the firebird had... this is why I think a "Second Try" car would be good for the sports car arena... The corvette has the ultra luxuary XLR sister... so i dont see why the camaro couldnt have a more agressively styled luxurous version... better interior more refined...

but thats just my thought... that style is extremely important when choosing sports cars... so why not have 2 styles to choose from? you have 3 or 4 epsilons, plenty of deltas... 2 kappas... why not 2 sigma lights?

Don't count on anything released before '09 to carry the Camaro or Firebird names. GM made an agreement at the discontinuation of the Camaro & Firebird that the popular nameplate would not be used again until several years later.

This, however, does not mean that the two door car will not be a Camaro or Firebird later or that models are not planned for both nameplates. The most current rumours suggest that a new, four door muscle car will be called a Chevelle; after the Chevelle, then the Camaro nameplate will be used again on a pure muscled 2 door car.

The four door Chevelle will have two suicide rear doors and two full front doors. After all, GM needs something to compete with that Dodge Charger. ;)

We will see what happens. :)

Anyone want to count how many noses, hoods, tail lights, and rear bumpers the Firebird line got during the 4th gen years compared to Camaro? :shock:

Keep in mind, Camaro sold in much higher numbers than the Firebird.

Yes, I want to count. Both cars had the the exact same # of noses/hoods/tail lights/ bumpers with the single exception that the Firebird used a different front/rear bumper for the Trans Ams. The '93-'97 V6 Birds had all red tailights, while V8 cars had black lines in them ('98 up all got the same tail lights). But wait, the Camaro had an export only tail light that cost just as much to design. So the net difference is the '93-'97 and the '98-'02 TA bumpers. Hardly a budget busting life of priviledge for the Bird, in my opinion.

And about those much higher #s the Camaro sold in...From 1997 to 2003 (includes left over 02's) The Camaro sold 182,396 to Firebird's 134,966. That means the Firebird sold 73.9% as many cars with FAR fewer dealers and a higher price. That sounds about right to me. We do know that Chevy is GM's VOLUME brand, right? Does GM have a platform where a Chevy is out sold by one of its' sister cars?

Without those additional 134,966 cars how long would the F body have survived? The next Camaro will have platform mates or it won't exist. Period. If you would rather the car had to make compromises with its 4 door sedan brethren without the additional pontiac sales to help its case, then I don't know what to say, other than 3,650lbs and McPherson struts here we come.

I really don't understand the Firebird hate. The cars both need and help each other. Personally I steer clear of the Z28/SS debate, but rest assured that without Pontiac and SLP taking the risk (in 1992!)and doing a Firehawk and later the WS6, then we would not have seen the return of the SS package.

In the immortal words of my brother Rodney, "can't we just all get along?" :confused:

Don't count on anything released before '09 to carry the Camaro or Firebird names. GM made an agreement at the discontinuation of the Camaro & Firebird that the popular nameplate would not be used again until several years later.

This, however, does not mean that the two door car will not be a Camaro or Firebird later or that models are not planned for both nameplates. The most current rumours suggest that a new, four door muscle car will be called a Chevelle; after the Chevelle, then the Camaro nameplate will be used again on a pure muscled 2 door car.

The four door Chevelle will have two suicide rear doors and two full front doors. After all, GM needs something to compete with that Dodge Charger. ;)

We will see what happens. :)

Uh, you haven't done much reading around on this forum, at least not for very long, have you? At this point we are sure there will be a Camaro concept at NAIAS this January. The use of the name is not a problem to GM anymore. Getting the car out in a timely and orderly fashion (i.e. in the next year or two) probably will be though.

I really don't understand the Firebird hate.

You won't find any coming from me. I really do hope the car comes back, and not in another 25 or 30 years, but maybe a few years after the Camaro. Although it has been discussed many times on this board what it might take to bring a Firebird back, the truth of the matter is that although there may be a chance in the next few years, it is likely a really small one.

Ain't that the truth! :bow:

Anyone want to count how many noses, hoods, tail lights, and rear bumpers the Firebird line got during the 4th gen years compared to Camaro? :shock:

Keep in mind, Camaro sold in much higher numbers than the Firebird.
So, how much is GM spending on the Saturn Sky? Is that entirely fresh sheetmetal worth the additional sales it will net? Will those sales come close to what the Firebird did in its final year, when it was hobbled with a horrible interior and a frightening nose.

I don't understand GM's logic for what constitutes worthy of badge engineering.

Don't count on anything released before '09 to carry the Camaro or Firebird names. GM made an agreement at the discontinuation of the Camaro & Firebird that the popular nameplate would not be used again until several years later.

This, however, does not mean that the two door car will not be a Camaro or Firebird later or that models are not planned for both nameplates. The most current rumours suggest that a new, four door muscle car will be called a Chevelle; after the Chevelle, then the Camaro nameplate will be used again on a pure muscled 2 door car.

The four door Chevelle will have two suicide rear doors and two full front doors. After all, GM needs something to compete with that Dodge Charger. ;)

We will see what happens. :)


I love how every newbie in the world comes on here and trys to inform of us of what we already know, or already know not to be true. Or how somebodys cousins brother in-law works for GM and they've seen the car or Bob Lutz told them blah blah blah..... SEARCH!!! It's the button on the top!

So, how much is GM spending on the Saturn Sky? Is that entirely fresh sheetmetal worth the additional sales it will net? Will those sales come close to what the Firebird did in its final year, when it was hobbled with a horrible interior and a frightening nose.

I don't understand GM's logic for what constitutes worthy of badge engineering.

how many people would feel the saturn is a better car? better interior and better exterior styling.. the pontiac is unique, the front bumper's angles are amazing... but thats all... so you pay 5k more for the saturn, because it's been taken care of more...

but still with a car that is basically hand built badge engeneering doesnt matter...

As has already been stated, the Camaro HAS to be a sales success for there to be any chance of a Firebird. But allowing for that, I don't see any problem with Pontiac getting one. Chevy has & will have multiple models with v-8's. So why can't Pontiac? The GTO would remain the flagship with sophisticated styling & come standard loaded with about a $35-40,000 price tag comfortable seating for 5 & a usable trunk. The up & coming family man's hot rod in other words. The Firebird would be the entry level sport coupe with a base v-6 model for about $20,000, possibly an Esprit or S/E model loaded with the comfort & convenience features, a Fomula which would be the base car with a v-8, both of these basing for about $25,000, & finally a Trans Am which add a killer susp. & brake pkg. & more agressive styling to the Formula & should base for about $30,000. Also as has been pointed out the car could share platform & still look almost completely different. Just like 'Vette & XLR, Solstice & Sky, Cobalt & Ion, Monte Carlo & Impala & Grand Prix. Anyway you get the idea. So I'm hoping the new Camaro is a Grand Slam!

The most current rumours suggest that a new, four door muscle car will be called a Chevelle; after the Chevelle, then the Camaro nameplate will be used again on a pure muscled 2 door car.

The four door Chevelle will have two suicide rear doors and two full front doors. After all, GM needs something to compete with that Dodge Charger. ;)

We will see what happens. :)

Search this forum and ye shall be enlightened and thus stripped of ye false info :D

A The Firebird would be the entry level sport coupe with a base v-6 model for about $20,000, possibly an Esprit or S/E model loaded with the comfort & convenience features, a Fomula which would be the base car with a v-8, both of these basing for about $25,000, & finally a Trans Am which add a killer susp. & brake pkg. & more agressive styling to the Formula & should base for about $30,000.
Agree with you up until the Formula part........A Formula should be the one with execellent handling and brake package, and the Trans Am have the bigger faster engine for strait line speed! I know alot of hardtop Formulas were converted to road racing cars for SCCA, NASA, and a lot of those other series...And on the topic of road racing, if the Camaro does end up hitting showroom floors soon, do you think they will have any kind of racing efforts with the car? Like in the Rolex Grand-Am series or the American Le Mans Series? It would be sweet to see a C6-R and "Z28-R" on the track at the same time!

I really don't understand the Firebird hate. The cars both need and help each other. Personally I steer clear of the Z28/SS debate, but rest assured that without Pontiac and SLP taking the risk (in 1992!)and doing a Firehawk and later the WS6, then we would not have seen the return of the SS package.

In the immortal words of my brother Rodney, "can't we just all get along?" :confused:

There's no Firebird hate, on the contrary. I hope one day GM can make the business case for a new Firebird.

But personally, I really don't see the point of a new Firebird if it's merely a restyled Camaro.

There's no Firebird hate, on the contrary. I hope one day GM can make the business case for a new Firebird.

But personally, I really don't see the point of a new Firebird if it's merely a restyled Camaro.

Well there might not be any hate from you, but there plenty is from others on here.

And I'll agree to an extent if it's just a restyled Camaro, the case might not be made ( though I bought my car because I preferred its styling over Camaro), there still is enough GM rebadging as was posted above, that Pontiac could use an intermediate RWD coupe if GTO is suppsoed to stay at the upper level.

Well there might not be any hate from you, but there plenty is from others on here.

And I'll agree to an extent if it's just a restyled Camaro, the case might not be made ( though I bought my car because I preferred its styling over Camaro), there still is enough GM rebadging as was posted above, that Pontiac could use an intermediate RWD coupe if GTO is suppsoed to stay at the upper level.

its just because some people are selfish, all they want is what they have always cared about... but what to me makes the camaro great is its companionship with the firebird... so they must go hand in hand in my opinion

There's no Firebird hate, on the contrary. I hope one day GM can make the business case for a new Firebird.

But personally, I really don't see the point of a new Firebird if it's merely a restyled Camaro.

Just curious, what was the business case for the Sky? That is just a fully loaded Solstice.

Just curious, what was the business case for the Sky? That is just a fully loaded Solstice.

i would have to agree... there will be 2 versions of the camaro... hopefully it'll be a pontiac Firebird...

Just curious, what was the business case for the Sky? That is just a fully loaded Solstice.

That's what I don't understand either. And can someone please inform me how the budget works for each division. As in, everyone says that Firebird took out a good chunk of developmental money from Camaro, but wouldn't Pontiac be footing that part of the bill? I'd love to be enlightened, cuz I just don't know how that works in GM. Can anyone fill me in???

That's what I don't understand either. And can someone please inform me how the budget works for each division. As in, everyone says that Firebird took out a good chunk of developmental money from Camaro, but wouldn't Pontiac be footing that part of the bill? I'd love to be enlightened, cuz I just don't know how that works in GM. Can anyone fill me in???


if i remember right, the F-cars had thier own program budget. there was x-amount of money that could be spent on the Camaro/Firebird platform, and the Firebird, even though it produced fewer sales, used up more money in the budget with the restyles it recieved over the course of the 4th gens.

Id' love to see a Firebird come back. I own 2 Firebirds, and 2 Camaros, I wouldn't mind making it 3 of each. But I agree, a simple redisign of the Camaro is pointless. The idea of a retro(heratiege) Camaro and a modern Firebird gets my attention.....

Ah but would the Fcars have gotten the same budget if there was only the Camaro. That is to say if there was no Firebird, would the Camaro have really got that money, or would it have gone to a different program?

No Firebird Is Coming Back Anytime Soon, Let It Go!

Ok got it now. But couldn't theoretically a 5th Gen Firebird have it's own budget from Pontiac, instead of sharing it with Camaro?

Also, good point Haz-Matt. It's possible the budget was more for the F-body due to there both being Camaro and Firebird.

At this point we are sure there will be a Camaro concept at NAIAS this January. The use of the name is not a problem to GM anymore. Getting the car out in a timely and orderly fashion (i.e. in the next year or two) probably will be though.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. You're 100% right, the car going to be unveiled is nothing more than a concept and not an actual pre-production vehicle. The actual production version (as you already know) is a few years out. You and I are on the same page.

I love how every newbie in the world comes on here and trys to inform of us of what we already know, or already know not to be true. Or how somebodys cousins brother in-law works for GM and they've seen the car or Bob Lutz told them blah blah blah..... SEARCH!!! It's the button on the top!

Okay, why the arrogance?? I'm not new to the internet and most certainly am not new to forums or forum posting. I am new to this site so excuse me if I post something that you've already seen before. Another thing, why are you referring me to the SEARCH button? In my last post, did I ask a question that you feel I might be able to find an answer to on through the search button? :confused:

Let Chevy have the Camaro, and make Pontiac make the GTO more appealing (not that its not appealing, just not $30K appealing).

Then bring back the FIERO as a Miata killer. Im talking a Gran National Inspired Turbo Charged 3.8L V6 Mid-Engine Fiero!! Heck ya!

We can still see the Solstice, just let that be a pretty convert. The Fiero can be balls-to-the-walls performance!!

Just my $0.02. :)

Let Chevy have the Camaro, and make Pontiac make the GTO more appealing (not that its not appealing, just not $30K appealing).

Then bring back the FIERO as a Miata killer. Im talking a Gran National Inspired Turbo Charged 3.8L V6 Mid-Engine Fiero!! Heck ya!

We can still see the Solstice, just let that be a pretty convert. The Fiero can be balls-to-the-walls performance!!

Just my $0.02. :)

Bring back the Fiero, a car that only lived in the automotive world a few years, but leave the Firebird dead, who's lifespan has spanned decades?

Originally Posted by Z284ever:
But personally, I really don't see the point of a new Firebird if it's merely a restyled Camaro.It's always been the Camaro sibling, a second front on the F-body attack, for those with different tastes but still looking for an affordable RWD performance car. I've always loved Camaro's since the first gens, but I (you) have to admit, that last WS6 R/A was the Baddest Looking Car on the planet, at the time.. :cool:
Move GTO up to the Half-way-house between F-Bodies and Vettes, let Pontiac live up to its Motto.(Out of our hands tho, I know. :( )

Just curious, what was the business case for the Sky? That is just a fully loaded Solstice.

I am assuming there were two big business case points for the Sky:

1. Solstice's 20,000 units/year aren't going to support a pretty sophisticated new platform like Kappa by itself. (Camaro will be planned for much higher numbers.)

2. Saturn desperately needs new life injected into its showrooms. Sky (and Aura) provide it.

As GM is rediscovering, styling is critical in the success of thier cars. Pontiac styling and Chevy styling are not the same thing and thats why we have different divisions.
Now I really hate to pour gasoline on this fire with second hand info (pet peeve of mine) but here goes. I had no intention of posting this until this thread came up.
My best friend, not as in my uncle's best friend's gardner's milkman but my actual best friend as in I speak to him every day and I was the best man at his wedding---he works in film/television production. He called me last week and told me he had just worked on a commercial for the 2007 Tahoe. He was impressed with it. Apparently there were some GM execs on hand and they were shooting the breeze with the crew during a break and my buddy being a Camaro/Monte Carlo SS nut asked about a new Camaro. He was told that a new Camaro would be at the autoshow in Jan (which we of course already know) And because he knows I am a Firebird guy, and I have told him there are no signs of the return of the Firebird, he asked them "why would you guys bring back the Camaro, and not the Firebird?" The guy replied "its in the works"
Me: How tall was the guy you talked to?
Him: Man, that sucker was tall! (friend is 6'3") He must have been at least 6'5"!
Me: Umm, did he have white hair?
Him: Yes, and he was wearing glasses. That guy was big.
Me: I think you may have been talking to Bob Lutz!

Now a couple of things. My friend isn't an internet cruiser like we are, so I had to explain to him on the phone how to do a google image search on Bob Lutz to see if that was him. He called me back 10 minutes later and said "yup, that's him" Now what does "in the works" mean? Could mean anything from "we're thinking about it" to "its almost done" who knows. But whatever it means, it is encouraging to those of us who identify with Pontiac styling rather than Chevy.

So, take it with a grain of salt, but this is info from my best friend who was there. Its not 3rd or fourth hand info. BTW if anyone knows for certain that B.L. attended this commecial shoot, send me a PM

Some may cry BS, but it sounds legit to me. What does it mean for the return of the Firechicken? got me, but I always liked them, despite the Firechicken comment.I thought they were the styling leader up until the mid 90's ( I know that the mid 90's Camaro's were mostly the same as the 93+, but the addition of the RS and SS package's really woke that body up, IMO).

Well Hoodshaker, if you frequent this board I am sure you are aware that your info will be extremely scutinized to all hell, and people are going to want more proof than what you have given. I am not saying I don't believe you, and I would definelty like to see the Bird come back, but 2nd hand info on a message board is not always the most reliable info.

Hoodshaker is gonna get it no matter if he is right or not :)

Well Hoodshaker, if you frequent this board I am sure you are aware that your info will be extremely scutinized to all hell, and people are going to want more proof than what you have given. I am not saying I don't believe you, and I would definelty like to see the Bird come back, but 2nd hand info on a message board is not always the most reliable info.

You are correct on all points. I am just reporting some factual events, and not interpreting them. For me, the language "its in the works" is too general for me to say its going to happen for sure. Like I said, I purposely was not going to post this info, until this thread popped up literally a day later, and it seemed an appropriate place for it. The Pontiac guys don't have a Redplanet (maybe human cloning could help here?) to help us keep the faith, but this info does offer me a glimmer of hope. Overall I view this info not as any sort of iron clad lock, but more as encouragement that at least there is a possibility.

You are correct on all points. I am just reporting some factual events, and not interpreting them. For me, the language "its in the works" is too general for me to say its going to happen for sure. Like I said, I purposely was not going to post this info, until this thread popped up literally a day later, and it seemed an appropriate place for it. The Pontiac guys don't have a Redplanet (maybe human cloning could help here?) to help us keep the faith, but this info does offer me a glimmer of hope. Overall I view this info not as any sort of iron clad lock, but more as encouragement that at least there is a possibility.

I'll agree with this, and some may consider it blind faith, but considering us Pontiac guys don't have a Red Planet, any news like this is at least encouraging. Obviously, this isn't anything factual, and the source not exactly credible ( not taking a shot at you Hoodshaker or your best friend), but if it was BL or at least some higher GM exec, at least the fatc that there wasn't a flat out dismissal of Firebird offeres me hope.

Did Redplanet not work on the F-Body program, meaning both Camaros and Firebirds?? I would have thought that he did. Plus, if there is any legitimacy to this claim, he probably already knows about it, although he is probably unlikely to say anything about it.