A question for Red Planet

With the tension about the anticipated unveiling of the Camaro concept being built up so thick that you could pretty much cut it with a knife at this point, I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask a question that I, (and I think a few others), have been wondering about for quite some time.

It's been said in the past that there is just as strong an enthusiast base within GM as there is in the private sector, so I imagine the reaction over the upper management's announcement to resurrect the Camaro would have been similar to one of Willy Wonka's Golden Tickets being dropped into the middle of GM headquarters. That being said, how was the creative process of a project of this magnitude governed? Did Bob Lutz line everyone up outside his office door, bring them in one at a time, and ask them each why they thought they were worthy to work on his beloved Camaro?
Was it more of a rank and file type mandate where the senior guys who have been involved in projects like this in the past got first dibs? Did they all gather round Bob and take turns drawing straws? :p Or did Bob just tell the entire design team, "Ok folks, it's open season, show me the best you've got?" I'd appreciate you sharing as much as you feel comfortable with... :thumb:

I dont belive he is gunna answer it here, but it will be in his much famed book that is coming out "Camaros are from Mars, Mustangs are for Pussies"....or something like that.
I belive that it started from the original team coming up with ideas back from the late 90's for a 5th gen. After the call was made to can it, Im sure that there was always a set of designers and engineers (as well as a certain man from Mars) that were still in love with this car, and kept pushing design ideas, and trying to create ways to fit Camaro back into the budget and get them back on the road. I think that with the help of several people at the top, they finaly got what they wanted, on top of outside pressure to create a name plate that for the past and most recent 35 years, has formed a very large enthusiasts base.
I belive thats the jist of it, the "real" story will hit bookshelves by 08?

"Camaros are from Mars, Mustangs are for Pussies" :lol:

Well, thesoundandthefury, there's at least one employee of GM that drives a 1st gen around from time to time, or so I've heard, and I believe another designer owns one as well.

Most of the designers for GM work on ALL of the GM cars, it's not like they just had one guy do it, they all contribute I believe. I've been trying to figure out who drew the actual designs for the 4th gen (which I haven't been able to find/see) for years without success. Apparently, there were so many people involved with the project, and so many recommendations being made, that the idea was changed multiple times. (With a lot of success I might add, because those '93 to '97 Camaros are some of the most beautiful, and unique looking cars ever designed).

Tom Peters is credited for designing the C6 by many people, but I believe John Cafaro is the chief designer for the Camaro and Corvette, and has been for over a decade. I believe Jerry Palmer is retired, but he was the executive director of design. Irvin W. Rybicki was the vice presidents of design back in the 80s and worked on the 3rd gen... and that's about the only people I know of.

If GM starts handing out golden tickets to see the Camaro, I want to be the first in line :).

"Camaros are from Mars, Mustangs are for Pussies" :lol:

Well, thesoundandthefury, there's at least one employee of GM that drives a 1st gen around from time to time, or so I've heard, and I believe another designer owns one as well.

Most of the designers for GM work on ALL of the GM cars, it's not like they just had one guy do it, they all contribute I believe. I've been trying to figure out who drew the actual designs for the 4th gen (which I haven't been able to find/see) for years without success. Apparently, there were so many people involved with the project, and so many recommendations being made, that the idea was changed multiple times. (With a lot of success I might add, because those '93 to '97 Camaros are some of the most beautiful, and unique looking cars ever designed).

Tom Peters is credited for designing the C6 by many people, but I believe John Cafaro is the chief designer for the Camaro and Corvette, and has been for over a decade. I believe Jerry Palmer is retired, but he was the executive director of design. Irvin W. Rybicki was the vice presidents of design back in the 80s and worked on the 3rd gen... and that's about the only people I know of.

If GM starts handing out golden tickets to see the Camaro, I want to be the first in line :).
Carafo headed 4th gen Camaro development in the Chevy II studio, it is mentioned in ACAR.

Tom Peters is credited for designing the C6 by many people, but I believe John Cafaro is the chief designer for the Camaro and Corvette, and has been for over a decade. I believe Jerry Palmer is retired, but he was the executive director of design. Irvin W. Rybicki was the vice presidents of design back in the 80s and worked on the 3rd gen... and that's about the only people I know of.



Cafaro was on design for trucks after C5, the last I heard. Peters had a lot to do with C6.... make no mistake.

Wayne Cherry was succeeded by Ed Welburn as head of Global design in 2005.

Lutz has a LOT of final say.:bow:

Carafo headed 4th gen Camaro development in the Chevy II studio, it is mentioned in ACAR.
Do you remember the quote from Tom Peters in ACAR, when discussing his concept that lost out to Cafaros, the subject of exposed headlights came up. Tom said something to the effect of, exposed headlights are not right for a Corvette, pop ups are Corvette tradition, ect. But of course, exposed headlights ended up being part of his C6 design. Not trying to flame him or anything, it was just kind of a funny quote coming from him when I re read it. I don't think theres any questioning the performance of the fixed lights over the popups that they replaced.

With the tension about the anticipated unveiling of the Camaro concept being built up so thick that you could pretty much cut it with a knife at this point, I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask a question that I, (and I think a few others), have been wondering about for quite some time.

It's been said in the past that there is just as strong an enthusiast base within GM as there is in the private sector, so I imagine the reaction over the upper management's announcement to resurrect the Camaro would have been similar to one of Willy Wonka's Golden Tickets being dropped into the middle of GM headquarters. That being said, how was the creative process of a project of this magnitude governed? Did Bob Lutz line everyone up outside his office door, bring them in one at a time, and ask them each why they thought they were worthy to work on his beloved Camaro?
Was it more of a rank and file type mandate where the senior guys who have been involved in projects like this in the past got first dibs? Did they all gather round Bob and take turns drawing straws? :p Or did Bob just tell the entire design team, "Ok folks, it's open season, show me the best you've got?" I'd appreciate you sharing as much as you feel comfortable with... :thumb:

Not going to steal Red's thunder (in the unlikely even he answers your question before Camaro's unveiling), but the basic design for a 5th gen Camaro was created years ago.

To make matters worse, alot of the ideas were hidden in plain sight as "concept" cars.

I suspect there will be alot of areas of familiarity when we see the car. :)

so were getting something that MIGHT..and I say MIGHT look dated?? like the SSR..we saw it how long before and now were like .."ehh"..and we have seen the twig and berries of the 5th gen splattered all over GM's concepts..to me this could sound like another SSR, weve seen it already car with no real bang.
case in point, the Dodge Challenger...awsome car and looks great but we have seen it before....

know what IM saying?

Not going to steal Red's thunder (in the unlikely even he answers your question before Camaro's unveiling), but the basic design for a 5th gen Camaro was created years ago.

To make matters worse, alot of the ideas were hidden in plain sight as "concept" cars.

I suspect there will be alot of areas of familiarity when we see the car. :)

So in other words you mean the "SS" sedan concept from 2003 and the NOMAD concept from 1999 ;)

Not going to steal Red's thunder (in the unlikely even he answers your question before Camaro's unveiling), but the basic design for a 5th gen Camaro was created years ago.

To make matters worse, alot of the ideas were hidden in plain sight as "concept" cars.

I suspect there will be alot of areas of familiarity when we see the car. :)


Wasn't it mentioned on here that the 5th gen would have many 2nd gen cues?

I like this one:
"Camaros are from Mars, Mustangs are from Uranus":lol:

So in other words you mean the "SS" sedan concept from 2003 and the NOMAD concept from 1999 Probably, in exagerated form, and a thin 4-door diguise.
I think being here like we are, and seeing and hearing all of the conceptual stuff over the years, I don't expect to be as shocked as the average Joe...Pleased, but not so shocked. :metal:

To make matters worse, alot of the ideas were hidden in plain sight as "concept" cars.



Don't think so...

So in other words you mean the "SS" sedan concept from 2003 and the NOMAD concept from 1999 ;)

I don't think so...

I really hope it isn't based on any of the previous concept cars, because I think they were all shi...ooty.

The first Nomad concept was one of the ugliest cars I've seen in years from GM.

The SS concept was ok, but looked like a stretch limo RX-8 and I'd imagine you'd have to drive it like a boat.

The 2nd Nomad concept based on the Kappa platform is alright, it's cute and all, but it isn't a Camaro.

Heck, the closest thing that looks like a Camaro that Chevy have conceptualized was the Borrego :lol:. And it's definitely ugly as all get out.
http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/concept/2001chevy_borrego_1.jpg

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/concept/2001chevy_borrego_1.jpg
That thing looks awesome. :cool:

Build it! ;)

:lol: You guys need to see it from other angles first.
http://www.edmunds.com/media/2001/laautoshow/chevy.borrego.r3-4.350.jpg
It's not as attractive as you might think ;), certainly not a Camaro :lol:

Looks like something you'd see Rat Fink sticking up out of the back of.

If I've heard correctly, isn't like the Vice President of the Chevy performance department or something an owner of a 69 Camaro? Likewise, I believe there's a head designer for Chevy Performance division who owns a VERY nice prostreet first gen. ;)

there are many people within GM that own Camaros and Firebirds....and many of them are at the top of the company.

Ed Wellburn has a Yellow 69 SS
Tom Peters has a 69 ZL1 clone that he brought to the Camaro/Firebird reunion at B/G two years ago.....

As to concepts in plain sight? Nope.

As to the design locked in a couple of years ago? nope.

Interesting tidbit......remember the Bel Air concept? Well, originally we were working on a Camaro concept...was up to tooling part......when it got killed due to issues surrounding the closure of Ste. Therese. Thus, the Bel Air was done in record time....but worry not! The concept you see in January bears no resemblence to the Bel Air......or the SS concept for that matter.

Further....you are correct in that quite a while ago, I said something about a second gen influence.....well.......that concept got way too big and way too heavy.......so.....it (I believe) still exists....but won't make production ...and the one you see in January is decidedly different.

I think the car will be very very very well accepted.

I think the car will be very very very well accepted.

Considering how well you know the Camaro community, that's very encouraging indeed:cz28:

I think the car will be very very very well accepted.

If the car is a new design, sporting heritage cues from 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen Camaros like I believe you alluded to awhile back, I will definetly be pleased.

Interesting tidbit......remember the Bel Air concept? Well, originally we were working on a Camaro concept...was up to tooling part......when it got killed due to issues surrounding the closure of Ste. Therese. Thus, the Bel Air was done in record time....but worry not! The concept you see in January bears no resemblence to the Bel Air......or the SS concept for that matter.

.

How far along did the concept of basing certain cars on a light truck platform get? I've always thought, (and still do), it was a very interesting idea with lots of possibilities.

(as long as it has nothing to do with Camaro, of course).

I don't know what the market or business case would be for an inexpensive, mechanically basic, GMT355 based car, but I often find myself thinking about a Nomad or Bel Air like that.

BTW, I remember Bob Lutz saying in 2002, that if the Bel Air convertible went into production it would sell for about $20K. Don't know how close to that price an actual production car would get....but it sure seemed like an attractive price for it to me.

Scott, will you be at Camaro Superfest 2006? I didn't get a chance to meet you in person at 2005, but I tell ya, with all the faith you've restored in so many people (including myself), I definitely gotta shake your hand and thank you in person. :) :D

Further....you are correct in that quite a while ago, I said something about a second gen influence.....well.......that concept got way too big and way too heavy.......so.....it (I believe) still exists....but won't make production ...and the one you see in January is decidedly different.
That's too bad :think:. I've always been partial to the 2nd-gens ;).

I think the car will be very very very well accepted.
Regardless of what it resembles, that's encouraging news :thumb:.

Scott, I don't know how I'd handle being in your position right now. Knowing what you know, seeing what you've seen, I'd have a hard time not blabbing my mouth off!! :D Thanks for helping "keep the faith" around here though :yes: :).

BTW: already got my hotel room booked in Detroit for the weekend of January 14th!!! :metal:

Interesting tidbit......remember the Bel Air concept? Well, originally we were working on a Camaro concept...was up to tooling part......when it got killed due to issues surrounding the closure of Ste. Therese. Thus, the Bel Air was done in record time....but worry not! The concept you see in January bears no resemblence to the Bel Air......or the SS concept for that matter.Ah man, finally. I told a couple close friends about that and they didn't believe me...now I can show them proof.