Help Me Argue Against Consumer Reprts

Help me argue against Consumer Reports, for my girlfriend's sister, who believes in it wholeheartedly.

Give as valid points as you can as to why it is biased, untrue, or over/under exaggerated.

Go!

I am pretty sure that they are owned by either a Japanese automaker or a Japanese corporation (not really, but might as well be)

Perhaps they are communist. Whatever they are, they most always seem to be anti-American product.

Give me some more specific info to argue against. I'm not oging to make a sterotyped comment that "all" consumer reports are bad.

Oh yea, sorry...I mean how it makes American Autos to be unrelaible, unsafe, low quality, etc.

I'm trying to get her family to believe in American cars, at least a little.

They are not all bad, but when it comes to american cars, yes they are.

Search around, this was discussed not too long ago. The main problem with CR is they only poll people who have subscriptions. With such a flawed and inadequate sampling mechanism, how can you take any of it seriously. Not only do you eliminate the bulk of the population since they don't subscribe, but you also eliminate the subscribers who choose not to resond.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410252

yes... They will report one vehicle one year as being unreliable in a certain aspect but the company doesnt address the problem and the next year its excellent...

or on badge engeneering cars... like the pontiac vibe and the toyota matrix... the matrix gets recomended but the vibe wont when they are both made by toyota...

this shows that toyota isnt being represented the same as other automakers... like pontiac...


so why would you believe the rest of their things...

i remember with the chevy prism and the toyota corrolla same thing there.. the corolla was recomended but the chevy was a problem child

I don't like them and think that the magazine exists mostly to give Camry buyers a reason to feel good about their decision.

However, I will say this:

VW rates poorly - My VW has been "below average" in reliability
Subaru Impreza rates very high - No problems with either of my Imprezas

I work with a guy that bases all of his buying decisions off of Consumer Reports. That is exactly why he purchased his recent Toyota and now argues how superior his car is as compared to my two American cars.

They suffer from selection bias, that is the largest problem. After that, what objective data do they really monitor? How is the data reported?

The basic problem is this. They send out questionaires or surveys to their subscribers only, it is limited selection at best and it re-emphasizes negative trends creating a negative feedback loop. Also they have a small rate or return and they don't ask about specific purchases they let you fill in the blank on what you bought and what is wrong about it. They don't monitor real world data or trends, there is nothing outside of their subscriber's reviews that they use.

Basically small subset of population recieves surveys, smaller subset responds. Negatvie trends are emphasized as are positive one creating feedbac loops. No objective data just subjective reviews.

Totally non-scientific.

Wow, pretty worthless.
Tell her, what does she have to lose by at least test driving a vehicle? Instead of just blindly following what some magazine says, why doesnt she just get up and drive for herself? How about read other reports to the contrary, especialy when you stack them up against consumer reports.
Such as JD Power scores and NHTSA Crash tests. Tell her to get up and sit in cars with "poor interior quality" and "lackluster performance", before she buys a 160hp 4cyl, 4k lbs Camry.

The basic problem is this. They send out questionaires or surveys to their subscribers only, it is limited selection at best and it re-emphasizes negative trends creating a negative feedback loop. Also they have a small rate or return and they don't ask about specific purchases they let you fill in the blank on what you bought and what is wrong about it. They don't monitor real world data or trends, there is nothing outside of their subscriber's reviews that they use.

Basically small subset of population recieves surveys, smaller subset responds. Negatvie trends are emphasized as are positive one creating feedbac loops. No objective data just subjective reviews.

Totally non-scientific.

Keyword, "feedback". CR is constantly being refueled by the same consumers who have the same biases. People who subscribe to CR value its opinions, adopt its biases, and ultimately, contributes to those tendencies. Wash, rinse, repeat.

That's the ONLY argument you need.

Its the only mag I've seen where the Cobalt SS came out in a comparison to other compact sports cars. Sorry, dont have the link.

or on badge engeneering cars... like the pontiac vibe and the toyota matrix... the matrix gets recomended but the vibe wont when they are both made by toyota...


http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ConsumerReportsSnapshot.aspx?year=2006&make=Toyota&model=Matrix&src=vip
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ConsumerReportsSnapshot.aspx?year=2006&make=Pontiac&model=Vibe&src=vip

Identical ratings. Neither is recommended.

Thanks guys, you've armed me with some good stuff :cool: .

Here's something else:

The categories they use (above average, below average, etc.) can be misleading.

They don't reflect the improvements almost all manufacturers have made. The difference between the best and worst cars is getting pretty small. By comparing all cars to the average, the categories exagerate the quality difference.

Also the categories cover a wide range. You can't tell where a car placed in the Above Average category. Is it at the top or the bottom? Conceivably two cars could be in a dead heat, but one car could be at the top of Average and another at the bottom of Above Average.

In addition they don't specify serious or minor problems. It's left to the owner to decide which is which. What one person may call serious, another may call minor.

There are ways Consumer Reports could fix this. Here's how....
-use specific quantifiable ratings (days spent in the shop/year or month)
-amount spent to maintain or repair the car annually
-specify what a serious problem is, specify what a minor problem is
-report the actual values of these ratings along with comparison to average
-lower time between surveys, monthly or at least quarterly as opposed to annually

Will they do this? No. Is Consumer Reports absolutely worthless? No, but you have to realize the limitations of the data they're collecting. It's a good secondary source of info, but by no means would I use it as my SOLE source.

Now, there's a site that does exactly what I said above. For the life of me I don't remember the address. Can anyone help?!?

If you want to ague against consumer reports, go get their current issue where they review the Lotus Elise.

The review is basically like this: "Handling is skittish, noise levels are irritating, and the car is unsuitable for transportation." :lol:

If it does not make for a good appliance, it is not recommended by CR.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ConsumerReportsSnapshot.aspx?year=2006&make=Toyota&model=Matrix&src=vip
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ConsumerReportsSnapshot.aspx?year=2006&make=Pontiac&model=Vibe&src=vip

Identical ratings. Neither is recommended.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544&src=LP%20Passenger

I know this isn't Consumer Reports, but check out Edmunds "True Cost to Own":
A 2003 1.8l base Toyota Matrix:
Maintenance over 5 years (estimated): $4661
Repairs over 5 years (estimated): $1630
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/toyota/matrix/100074123/cto.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..18.Toyo ta*

A 2003 1.8l base Pontiac Vibe:
Maintenance over 5 years (estimated): $5230
Repairs over 5 years (estimated): $1830
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/pontiac/vibe/100074071/cto.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..18.Pont iac*

That's a $750+ difference between 2 IDENTICAL vehicles. WTF? Shows either a bias or a very unscientific "True Cost to Own" formula.

I know this isn't Consumer Reports, but check out Edmunds "True Cost to Own":
A 2003 1.8l base Toyota Matrix:
Maintenance over 5 years (estimated): $4661
Repairs over 5 years (estimated): $1630
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/toyota/matrix/100074123/cto.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..18.Toyo ta*

A 2003 1.8l base Pontiac Vibe:
Maintenance over 5 years (estimated): $5230
Repairs over 5 years (estimated): $1830
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/pontiac/vibe/100074071/cto.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..18.Pont iac*

That's a $750+ difference between 2 IDENTICAL vehicles. WTF? Shows either a bias or a very unscientific "True Cost to Own" formula.

or gm puts a markup on replacement parts needed... but Toyota hourly workers is the highest in the buisness i think...

Body panels are different, and at least certain interior parts too. Priced by two different companies. I don't think it necessarily shows a bias. The MSN article is odd however.