Considering Chevy's Current Model Designations Will We See Z28 Again?

When the 5th gen comes rolling off the assembly line do you think Z28 will be in the pkg. Current and past Chevy trends have me worried for instance none of the other Z designations are currently being used except Z06, though none of the others attained legendary status like Z28. During the final years of the 4th gen it seemed the Z28 got looked over, while the SS kept getting minor revisions. None of the options filtered down to the Z28 not even a 35th Anniversary pkg.

Is this what we might see in trim levels given Chevys current use of LS, LT, etc. designations?

Camaro (base or LS)
Camaro LT
Camaro LTZ
Camaro SS

Someone posted that the Z28 will return as the top dog Camaro, if that is true then we should see it later, if sales are strong enough to warrant a more powerful model. I hope this is true, though waiting even longer for the Z28 will be really hard.

This is what I would like to see:

Camaro (base) 3.9L 240hp
Camaro RS 3.9L S/C 285hp, (optional 5.3L bargin V8 model)
Camaro SS 5.3L 350hp
Camaro Z28 6.2L 450hp

I don't think it will use all of the same trim level designations as other cars in the lineup. As far as I know, the Z28 will be the top level Camaro...but what do I know.

It's been said by quite a few people smarter than me that Z28 is one of the most recognizable automotive term the general public knows. For GM to ignore that would be a big mistake, not only with traditional Camaro enthusiasts but with possible other buyers.

Do a search; I feel like already answered this question 3 times today alone.

It's been said by quite a few people smarter than me that Z28 is one of the most recognizable automotive term the general public knows. For GM to ignore that would be a big mistake, not only with traditional Camaro enthusiasts but with possible other buyers.
True, "Z28" always registers as strictly Camaro with most people. When people hear "SS", they think "Impala? Nazis? Chevelle? What?"

Do a search; I feel like already answered this question 3 times today alone.


It may have been touched on here and there in misc threads, so I decided to start a thread on it, even though I know most if not all here feel the Z28 name/RPO should come back, but does GM see it that way?

It may have been touched on here and there in misc threads, so I decided to start a thread on it, even though I know most if not all here feel the Z28 name/RPO should come back, but does GM see it that way?

I'm sorry, I came off rude, I'm tired.

From everything I've heard, yes the Z28 is coming back as the top V8 model about two years after 5th gen is launched.

The SS will be the mid level V8 but will be introduced the first year of production along with the base v6.

We should have convertibles the second year of production.

The only real debate and speculation is over what two V8s will be used in the SS and Z28. I have no clue to be honest on this topicand I think most people here are in the same boat with me.

I too want to see the base/RS/SS/Z28 line up. Will have to wait and see! Posting to get rid of the heading requesting me to do so!

Not only will you see, but you'll hear it too IMO. ;) (hopefully it'll sound a little better than the regular high powered LSx's)

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

Is it me, or does it really matter what designation the top Camaro gets? (Doesn't to me)

I really don't think there will be 2 v8 options, I think you guys are setting yourself up for a HUGE disappointment.

To expand on the model distinction through appropriate badging theme, I'd like to see GM take this a step further and follow along with the same formula they used with the C6 in reference to how much the body panels differ from the base model to the Z06.

If we're to assume that it's going to be a retro offering, I think it would be ultra cool to see them make the base models look like the 67'-68' Camaro, and the top model look like the 69'. Since the 69's look was pretty much immortalized because it was only seen for one model year, I think utilizing these visual cues would add significantly to it's "must have" status.

A side benefit of going this route would be that if this time around it took more than just bolting on cheap aftermarket badges, hood, rear spoiler and wheels to make a V6 look like an SS, I think it would go pretty far in preventing the SS's marqui value from getting watered down in the public's eye and help make the additional $10K premium to get that model seem more justifiable.

In other words...base car V6, possible V8 option. SS has either small V8 standard w/ optional big V8, Or one or the other as the only engine. Then Z/28 comes out in a few years w/ top V8 and high end handling/performance options.

We have the current practice of Chevrolet making the SS as the top model of all their cars except the Corvette, which gets a Z model. The question is, is the top performing Camaro more closely related to a Corvette, or a Cobalt/Malibu/Impala/Trailblazer/HHR. I think the former ;) .

edit: upon further review of Reds post, it could go the other way too. If more people associate Z28 with Camaro, then it might be wise to stick w/ what people know until the new car is established. If that happens, I just hope that it's not just a base looking car w/ a V8 like last time.

(am I making you crazy yet???)

Umm...yes. :p

hasnt the SS always been better then The Z... so why make in the 5th gen the Z top dog?

but Z28 is definatly a must, i often say to people Nice Z or nice Z28, if its a V6 i generally just say nice car...

hasnt the SS always been better then The Z......

BUCKLE UP!!!!:D

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

So if I'm interpreting your riddle correctly, what you're saying is that since the Camaro figured out the formula for brewing his own mojo, he doesn't mind letting his little brother the Cobalt have some because he knows he needs it more? ;)

So if I'm interpreting your riddle correctly, what you're saying is that since the Camaro figured out the formula for brewing his own mojo, he doesn't mind letting his little brother the Cobalt have some because he knows he needs it more? ;)

now im confused....

BUCKLE UP!!!!:D

:D No comment :)

now im confused....

*cough*(mojo=SS)*cough*

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

NO, its EVEN WORSE. You are making sense to me.

:D

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

so what you are saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford or SRT is to Dodge,

But Z28 is to Camaro like Z06 is to Corvette?

so Z28 is top dog because it shares parts with the Z06, where as the SS would just share parts with the regular Corvette?

so what you are saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford or SRT is to Dodge,



I don't think so. I see it more comparable to Ford's GT and Dodge's R/T.

so what you are saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford or SRT is to Dodge,

But Z28 is to Camaro like Z06 is to Corvette?

so Z28 is top dog because it shares parts with the Z06, where as the SS would just share parts with the regular Corvette?

Close. Super Sport has always meant the top of the line trim package for each Chevy model line in terms of performance and luxury. RPO-Z28 was created so Chevrolet could go road racing.

So which is the “Top Dog” Camaro? It’s not a simple answer actually.

If GM is going to bring the Camaro back and with it the Z28, there are several here that say the new Z28 must be a road racing based version much like the Corvette Z06, including down to the Z06 LS7 power plant. This is what the Z28 was originally, a racecar thinly disguised for the street. I fall into that camp. I want a no nonsense brute of a Camaro for a weekend toy on the street and at the track. It has to be the best handling coupe in the marketplace with enough horsepower and torque to back it up. In all honesty, the 4th gen Z28 was just too vanilla to carry the Z28 name honorably.

However, if the new Z28 is going to just be a sticker package over the SS model, then what is the point? If that is to be the case, then they might as well just kill the name and have only the SS to which buyers can modify on their own to create the car GM should’ve built in the first place.

I however am an optimist and fully expect to see a Z28 within 18-24 months of the Camaro’s reintroduction. I just hope that we learn if the Z28 is a go or no-go shortly thereafter, otherwise I may not be able to wait.

so what you are saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford or SRT is to Dodge,

But Z28 is to Camaro like Z06 is to Corvette?

so Z28 is top dog because it shares parts with the Z06, where as the SS would just share parts with the regular Corvette?

I think what he's doing is making a distinction.

In the past, Z28 has been attributed to "the best Camaro."
SS is more of a corporate icon that denotes "the best ____."

Since both of these terms can be translated as being "the best," it makes more sense to go with the term that is specific to the Camaro only, which is Z28.

The Camaro was one of the cars that helped create the legacy that made the SS moniker what it is, so it makes more sense to assign that badge to "lesser" cars that can benefit from the status associated with it, while keeping the Z28 badge for exclusivity.

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)


OMG, i actually understood that!!!!!! :D ............




think about it like this, what makes more sense to label the top dog, a name that is associated solely with the Camaro........or..........a name that is associated with the entire Chevy line?


i guess this will get put to rest once we get word on what the launch models will be........COUGH<LT, RS, SS>COUGH

In all honesty, the 4th gen Z28 was just too vanilla to carry the Z28 name honorably.

.

That may be a bit harsh, but I agree with you that I wish the Z28 was more than a base car with a V8 in it and a black roof.

That may be a bit harsh, but I agree with you that I wish the Z28 was more than a base car with a V8 in it and a black roof.

That appearently was one of the hardest choices to make on the 4th gens.

so what you are saying is SS is to Chevy what SVT is to Ford or SRT is to Dodge,

But Z28 is to Camaro like Z06 is to Corvette?

so Z28 is top dog because it shares parts with the Z06, where as the SS would just share parts with the regular Corvette?


This guy wins a prize! You hit the nail right on the head!
:bow: :thumb:


Or atleast this is what Chevy does with the SS name currently.

They should keep it simple, a base V6 & Z28 V8.

They should keep it simple, a base V6 & Z28 V8.


NO! :mad:





















;) :p

How about Iroc-Z's? :D

hasnt the SS always been better then The Z... so why make in the 5th gen the Z top dog?

but Z28 is definatly a must, i often say to people Nice Z or nice Z28, if its a V6 i generally just say nice car...
the only time the SS has been better than the Z28 was the 4th gen

NO! :mad:





















;) :p
Why not? For marketing simplicity, I think they should just have 2 models. It should help keep costs down.

Close. Super Sport has always meant the top of the line trim package for each Chevy model line in terms of performance and luxury. RPO-Z28 was created so Chevrolet could go road racing.


Super Sport was never the top pure performance package in first gen Camaros, that's Z28. SS started out more as a luxury package with a little straight line performance. When the Z/28 option package first came about, you could only order it with a base model Camaro, then you got the 4 speed, 302, disc brakes, and suspension. The Z/28 was originally about pure performance, the SS was a mixture. Just because the SS could come with a big block doesn't mean it was a better performance car.

This poor old horse ain't even got a small pile of hair left to to beat on....let it go guys, we'll see what Chevy does in January or shortly there-after...this decision has already been made.... :death:

Just for giggles though..I think me & Charlie (and many others) are going to be pleased... ;)

Why not? For marketing simplicity, I think they should just have 2 models. It should help keep costs down.
Because that worked SO well in the 4th gen right?

Just for giggles though..I think me & Charlie (and many others) are going to be pleased... ;)

And me!;)

This poor old horse ain't even got a small pile of hair left to to beat on....let it go guys, we'll see what Chevy does in January or shortly there-after...this decision has already been made.... :death:

Just for giggles though..I think me & Charlie (and many others) are going to be pleased... ;)

:lol:
:D
:thumb:

When the Z/28 option package first came about, you could only order it with a base model Camaro, then you got the 4 speed, 302, disc brakes, and suspension.
Actually that's not true. RPOZ28 could be ordered combined with Rally Sport (RPOZ22) and also the deluxe interior package. While, 4-speed, 302 and no A/C was std; it was never a base model Camaro only package. While it could not be ordered with SS, had GM been able to get 350 to qualify for Trans Am, the Z28 may have never exisited. The Z/28 was originally about pure performance, the SS was a mixture. Just because the SS could come with a big block doesn't mean it was a better performance car.
The Z28 was a Trans Am racer car dressed up as a street car. It was never about pure performance. It was about road racing.

Also, I never said the SS was better. Read and comprehend my whole post next time will you? You're preaching to the choir my friend. I am a charter member of the Z28 is top dog club.

That may be a bit harsh, but I agree with you that I wish the Z28 was more than a base car with a V8 in it and a black roof.1LE:p

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)


hmmmm....by reading between the lines it seems that the Z28 moniker will be the "top" camaro. :cz28:

If GM is going to bring the Camaro back and with it the Z28, there are several here that say the new Z28 must be a road racing based version much like the Corvette Z06, including down to the Z06 LS7 power plant. This is what the Z28 was originally, a racecar thinly disguised for the street. I fall into that camp. I want a no nonsense brute of a Camaro for a weekend toy on the street and at the track. It has to be the best handling coupe in the marketplace with enough horsepower and torque to back it up. In all honesty, the 4th gen Z28 was just too vanilla to carry the Z28 name honorably.

:bow: ...I think the Z/28 should come back as the "hardcore" performance model, (with an optional 1LE package to take to things even further). The "SS" should be more of the "softcore" performance model, ie: more luxury appointments, softer suspension tuning...Something that's is really fast and handles really well, w/o being too extreme for most people for everyday use. The Z/28 and Z/28 1LE should be absolutely brutal in every aspect of performance. Acceleration, braking, handling...No compromises should be made to try to "soften" them up. As much as I love my Z/28 I always get in it and feel like alot more could have been done performance wise...It shouldn't be that way with the new model :thumb: :usa:

Actually that's not true. RPOZ28 could be ordered combined with Rally Sport (RPOZ22) and also the deluxe interior package. While, 4-speed, 302 and no A/C was std; it was never a base model Camaro only package. While it could not be ordered with SS, had GM been able to get 350 to qualify for Trans Am, the Z28 may have never exisited.
The Z28 was a Trans Am racer car dressed up as a street car. It was never about pure performance. It was about road racing.

Also, I never said the SS was better. Read and comprehend my whole post next time will you? You're preaching to the choir my friend. I am a charter member of the Z28 is top dog club.
The RS was the base V8 Camaro.

And if the trans am C.I. limit back then was 350c.i....there would still be a Z28, just with a 350 cubic inch engine.

If the Z28 was about road racing, how could it not be about pure performance? It was a homologated race car, it was about performance and really nothing else. I never said straight line performance.

Just for giggles though..I think me & Charlie (and many others) are going to be pleased... ;)


:D :thumb: :yes:

The RS was the base V8 Camaro.

The RS was not the base V8 Camaro. The RS was also available with a L6.

The base Camaro was the plain Jane 327-210 HP, which could be had with either a 3-spd, 4-spd or 2-spd Auto. Gee, that sounds familiar... :rolleyes:

They should keep it simple, a base V6 & Z28 V8.

Throw a base model trim and V8 in between them and you have a winner. (call that anything you want to other than SS. Call it a type LT for all I care.... or a RS. It worked for the 3rd gen....)

the only time the SS has been better than the Z28 was the 4th gen

Ok, lets dyno 22 stock 2001 SS and 22 stock 2001 Z28s and see which is superior.

I think he is saying that z28 is coming back with the camaro ss to return later. btw i had a 67 camaro ss 350 295 hp z28 302 290 hp

The 1st generation Z/28 was not accurately rated at 290hp. But time to quit now before "SS vs Z28" happens again.

Super Sport was never the top pure performance package in first gen Camaros, that's Z28. SS started out more as a luxury package with a little straight line performance. When the Z/28 option package first came about, you could only order it with a base model Camaro, then you got the 4 speed, 302, disc brakes, and suspension. The Z/28 was originally about pure performance, the SS was a mixture. Just because the SS could come with a big block doesn't mean it was a better performance car.



uhmmmm.......no.

(I'll get back to this later....kinda busy right now......your thesis is kinda right, but more wrong than right)

Close. Super Sport has always meant the top of the line trim package for each Chevy model line in terms of performance and luxury. RPO-Z28 was created so Chevrolet could go road racing.

So which is the “Top Dog” Camaro? It’s not a simple answer actually.

If GM is going to bring the Camaro back and with it the Z28, there are several here that say the new Z28 must be a road racing based version much like the Corvette Z06, including down to the Z06 LS7 power plant. This is what the Z28 was originally, a racecar thinly disguised for the street. I fall into that camp. I want a no nonsense brute of a Camaro for a weekend toy on the street and at the track. It has to be the best handling coupe in the marketplace with enough horsepower and torque to back it up. In all honesty, the 4th gen Z28 was just too vanilla to carry the Z28 name honorably.

However, if the new Z28 is going to just be a sticker package over the SS model, then what is the point? If that is to be the case, then they might as well just kill the name and have only the SS to which buyers can modify on their own to create the car GM should’ve built in the first place.

I however am an optimist and fully expect to see a Z28 within 18-24 months of the Camaro’s reintroduction. I just hope that we learn if the Z28 is a go or no-go shortly thereafter, otherwise I may not be able to wait.


very good points...you've got the gist of it......the first line....the emphasis is on performance, not luxury. Remember that the early SS could be had with the standard interior or the custom interior.

uhmmmm.......no.

(I'll get back to this later....kinda busy right now......your thesis is kinda right, but more wrong than right)


i'll take a crack at what he was trying to say, stop me if i'm wrong........

what stangitr was getting at was RPOZ28 only came into existence to homologate it for SCCA Trans-Am competition, while SS was an engine/option package that most Chevy models recieved in the late 60s. RPOZ28 WAS a race car in street trim, while SS WAS a street car in race trim, more-so the big-block equipped models.

In all honesty, the 4th gen Z28 was just too vanilla to carry the Z28 name honorably.

.

I disagree with you on that......look at the 93-95 Z28.......quite a performer. Perhaps not in the vision of the first Z28, but I can't imagine anyone seeing the 1993 Camaro Z28 as vanilla when it came out!

I hope for a Z/28 option because of the heritage and personal memories of all the Z's I had.Either way its a good thing to see this buzz and excitement over a car that might not be released for several years[hurts to say that].

The RS was the base V8 Camaro.

.


nope. You could order the RS package on a 6 cylinder....a V8 coupe....an SS...and a Z28..........RS was not the base V8 Camaro.

The RS was not the base V8 Camaro. The RS was also available with a L6.

The base Camaro was the plain Jane 327-210 HP, which could be had with either a 3-spd, 4-spd or 2-spd Auto. Gee, that sounds familiar... :rolleyes:



actually, the base Camaro in 1967 was an inline 230ci 6 cylinder.......with 250 ci as optional or a V8...............

hey RP, was i right??????

post #53

to address Stangitr's comment.

The SS WAS the top Camaro in 1967.......in terms of overall performance and cubic inches.............then the Z28 came along. (I have the internal memos to prove it.......)

The SS was never meant as a luxury package.

to address Stangitr's comment.

The SS WAS the top Camaro in 1967.......in terms of overall performance and cubic inches.............then the Z28 came along. (I have the internal memos to prove it.......)

The SS was never meant as a luxury package.


i hope history repeats itself.

Do it right and I may buy both a Z/28 and an SS. I have a pretty clear picture in my mind of what I'd expect from each.

I always viewed the SS as a performance package in the camaro and the Z/28 as a maximum performance package as far as SBC was concerned.Can't argue with no A/C,4 speed only and must order disc brakes,that sounds enthusiast to me.I don't care which is the top model,I'll order the Z.

Do it right and I may buy both a Z/28 and an SS. I have a pretty clear picture in my mind of what I'd expect from each.

what colors????

Interior trim???

Do it right and I may buy both a Z/28 and an SS. I have a pretty clear picture in my mind of what I'd expect from each.

what colors????

Interior trim???

what colors????

Interior trim???

i think you're having an MPS(multiple post syndrome) attack.....

Admiral Blue with Black leather!!!!!!!!!!

i think you're having an MPS(multiple post syndrome) attack.....
...

nope...just a AOL moment............

Weren't the last SS's, Z28's with the SS pkge??
Kinda like Icing on the Cake, maybe...

what colors????

Interior trim???

Z/28: Black on black six speed coupe. It will scare women and children (and some men).

SS: Maybe white or silver, with a red interior (if offered). I'm thinking a convertible with an automatic trans so wifey can drive it.

Oh BTW, I like how on the Impala SS you can choose wood or brushed aluminum trim. Something to keep in mind 5th gen time.

Maroon/black,no leather,M6,T-tops,LS-7.Can I COPO that?

Z/28: Black on black six speed coupe. It will scare women and children (and some men).

SS: Maybe white or silver, with a red interior (if offered). I'm thinking a convertible with an automatic trans so wifey can drive it.



sounds good to me! (how 'bout houndstooth???)

Sign me up for a M6 1LE Z/28. I would do the black on black thing, if black wasn't so damn hard to keep clean. Maybe a more stand out color this time, like SOM, or maybe if GM offers a good looking yellow I might be on that. Of course with a black interior.

1LE will still be an option on the fifth gen, right? (Crosses fingers).

Ya know... to help generate publicity about Camaro models and build a hiearchy (sp? lol) in the general public's minds... can the Z28 and SS really come back in the same year?

I mean, wouldnt one have to resurface immediately as the top dog, and then the other follow up (and out perform) a couple years later to ease confusion about what model and/or trim is the top dog?

if we're putting in the orders now, i'll take a Z/28, black/black & red interior(always liked the 4th gen RS seats), LS7(fingers crossed), 6spd manual........


oh yeah, and 19in fronts/20in rears :D

how 'bout houndstooth???


[Quagmyer from Family Guy=] GIGITY GIGITY, ALLLLLRIIIGHT[/Quagmyer from Family Guy]

sounds good to me! (how 'bout houndstooth???)

Houndstooth would be interesting, but I'd have to see what a modern interpretation of it would look like.

Make the Z28, the (Z06) of Camaro's, and the SS more of a street trim brawler...as with 1st gen, on avg.(ie; '69)

Oh, how about a Candy-Apple Metalic SS ??...with white Houndstooth...

Interior trim???

Something incredibly easy and cheap: bring back the "Tick Tock Tach" :bow:

Maybe only include that in the SS models.

Well I've got to put my order in too!:D

I'd like a...

6-speed SOM SS Convertible with a black top and black leather seats

:cool:

Hmm, since we are taking orders, I'll take a Top-O-The-Line Camaro*, M6, 6.2 or 7 liter LS with Ebony leather, and Hugger Orange paint. Oh, and can I have a side of black hockey stick stripes to go please!


* In order to avoid the SS vs Z/28 thing yet again I will henceforth refer to the all out perfromer as "Top-O-The-Line Camaro" (mostly;) )

Oh BTW, I like how on the Impala SS you can choose wood or brushed aluminum trim. Something to keep in mind 5th gen time.

Brushed Al or something is one thing, but that wood looks like ass in the Imp and would be a travesty in the Camaro...

I disagree with you on that......look at the 93-95 Z28.......quite a performer. Perhaps not in the vision of the first Z28, but I can't imagine anyone seeing the 1993 Camaro Z28 as vanilla when it came out!

Oh don't get me wrong RP, I love my 95 Z28. As a performer its still fun 10 years later. After test driving the GTO and C6 Corvette, I climbed back in my 10 year old ancient technology Z28 and drove home... all the while thinking, "I can hold out a few more years" with a big grin on my face. However, everyday I pass 5th gen Camaros on the way to work. Other than the SS, you have to look real hard to tell the Z28s from the V6 base Camaros. (I doubt my wife could ever tell the difference.) It shouldn't be that way. Z28 should stand out on its own and turn heads all day long.

In a perfect world, my wife will love the looks of the next gen Camaro, and we'll purchase a Patriot Red SS Convertible for her (with 6-spd Auto) and a Sunset Orange Z28 for me.

Hey a guy can dream, right? :D

actually, the base Camaro in 1967 was an inline 230ci 6 cylinder.......with 250 ci as optional or a V8...............

Yeah, I know that. But I was having fun with the guy and the fact that I actually own a plain Jane coupe with the 327-210 V8... ok it used to have a 327. ;)

sounds good to me! (how 'bout houndstooth???)

Don't tease like that! :D

i'll take a crack at what he was trying to say, stop me if i'm wrong........

what stangitr was getting at was RPOZ28 only came into existence to homologate it for SCCA Trans-Am competition, while SS was an engine/option package that most Chevy models recieved in the late 60s. RPOZ28 WAS a race car in street trim, while SS WAS a street car in race trim, more-so the big-block equipped models.
yep, that's what i was trying to get at but i hacked it up pretty badly.

but the RS with a I6 thing i didn't know, i thought they all had V8s :o

to address Stangitr's comment.

The SS WAS the top Camaro in 1967.......in terms of overall performance and cubic inches.............then the Z28 came along. (I have the internal memos to prove it.......)

The SS was never meant as a luxury package.
oh, i was under the impression that the Z28 was pretty much there from the beginning

everyday I pass 5th gen Camaros on the way to work

:bs: w/out pics. :D

I took your vanilla comment to mean appearance-wise, not performance. I think Red took it the other way.

Oh, and since we're ordering....
ME-Z28, red on black houndstooth, black hockey stick, 6sp w/ a white cue ball.

HER-Base model WITH mid level V8 option, White on Red leather, A6, heated seats.

OK, since we're ordering our cars already:

Z28 or SS (wich ever is more tuned for auto-x, time trials and road racing), power windows and locks (I'll take my chances on reliablity to NOt have to reach all the way across the interior), ability to mount a trailer hitch.

I don't know about color yet, but an artic white with dual Daytona Sunset Orange stripes is the early favorite...or maybe blue with yellow stripes (a tip of the hat to the Penske/Donahue Camaros)

Interior: color matched seat and door inserts (similar to Cobalt SS), deep support seats that'll accept shoulder harness, color matched gauge faces (like the GTO), bring back the 'blister vents', XM and/or MP3 compatible radio.

That's about it, I'm not interested in a 'luxury' Camaro....yet.

Z/28: Black on black six speed coupe. It will scare women and children (and some men).

SS: Maybe white or silver, with a red interior (if offered). I'm thinking a convertible with an automatic trans so wifey can drive it.

Red interior? Very very few cars pull that off well.

I'm with whatever will be the top performer, SS or z28, i don't think either would dissapoint. I'd like a 6spd manual or maybe even a 6spd autostick (like new corvette) since i do alot of highway/jam driving. This time, i'd like to give the T-top thing i try, and i'd take my interior and exterior in one color...black on black. I'd give it the black treatment with a darker tint, black powdecoated wheels with polished lips, and smoked tail and headlights (not the cheap covers). Give it a nice interior, a nice exhaust tone, and an engine that's easy to get to, and i'm game :D.

Red interior? Very very few cars pull that off well.




With the right exterior color, I think it looks good on the GTO and Mustang.

I've never actually had the opportunity to see or sit in a new GTO in person, but please tell me that they don't have the infamous "cat hump", so I can (tentatively) look forward to not seeing this in the 5th gen.

I've never actually had the opportunity to see or sit in a new GTO in person, but please tell me that they don't have the infamous "cat hump", so I can (tentatively) look forward to not seeing this in the 5th gen.
Nope, no cat hump.

First thing I noticed when my buddy got his..

Since we're on the subject... some more early Z/28 trivia:

The original Z28 was planned for a 283 (I believe it was Vince Piggins who first suggested that a 327 with a 283 crank would displace 302 c.i., just under the SCCA's 305 c.i.d. displacement max for the class)

Several Trans Am Camaros were actually converted SS-350's or even L30/M20's (327 c.i.-275hp & 4spd). In fact Z28 #1 (the first production Z28 driven by Johnny Moore) had a matching # 1968 327 & 4spd when its current owner Jon Mello purchased it a few years ago. It ends up the original owners pulled its drivetrain after the 1967 season, swapped it with the new 1968 Coupe, painted it '68 ralley green and returned it to street duty.

In 1969 GM successfully homologated the TH350 for Trans Am use, although it was never available as an option on the Z28. (They used the SS production numbers to do this.)

http://www.1967z28.com/gallery/fullrace/jmoore/jmoore-main.htm
http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/welcome_fs.htm

:D

actually, the base Camaro in 1967 was an inline 230ci 6 cylinder.......with 250 ci as optional or a V8...............


Yup, and I gots me one of those base 230's. My convertible is a plain Jane as anything. ;)

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

I hope that's not an indication that there are those within GM who may consider the Z/28 moniker as the soft, mass market, mainline, Camaro brand.

It was not too many years ago, that someone at GM, involved with the Camaro (not RP, BTW), even told me that GM's research showed that not very many people even recognize the Z/28 name. :mad: Boy!!! My hair lit on fire. :mad: :death: :mad:

Let's hope GM ends up doing the right thing.

Well hell if we are ordering here:

Lemans Blue
T-Top
Z/28 Option
6 speed stick
BTW I'd like mine with White stripes outlined in a black then red pinstripe.
Interior either black or red.

Oh yea must have an autographed copy of your book Scott in the glove compartment ;)

Oh yea must have an autographed copy of your book Scott in the glove compartment ;)


OH FUDGE! i forgot to ask for a copy of "All Camaros are from Mars" in my glovebox signed by Scott, is it too late???????? :p



and i'd like to add alittle more to jg95z28's trivia:

the first 302 engines that Chevy produced were actually 283 blocks machined to accept the 327's crank and pistons. this left very little metal seperating the cylinders and the cooling jackets around them, which led Chevy to use the 327 blocks and "destroke" them with the 283's crankshaft.

My turn...

Black with White Deck Stripes
Tall rear spoiler
Black leather interior with Houndstooth inserts
6-speed automatic
3.73 rearend
Classic wheel look in 17's & 18's (torque thrust look)
Throughty exhaust tone
onstar
PL/PW
Top of the line stereo system thats unrivled in its class
Deep tinted windows

I also want a ratings plate somewhere in the interior like the old vettes and some Camaros had that says what the engine size is, hp/tq ratings etc...

Thanks!

for moi:
1) black on black hard top
2) manual locks and windows
3) no a/c
4) 6sd manual
5) stiffest suspension
6) cloth seats
7) best stereo.

OH FUDGE! i forgot to ask for a copy of "All Camaros are from Mars" in my glovebox signed by Scott, is it too late???????? :p



.


:D :D :D :D :D :D

well now, we HAVE a TITLE!!

Boy this is going to be fun. It will be nice to see the prototype unveiled. Black on black leather for me, loaded Z/28 and any other packages that come with it. This car will be my all-out fun-time daily driver.

I buy all my cars loaded and ready to kill, and I want to be the first to blow away that new Turbo 350Z.

I'm sorry, I came off rude, I'm tired.



Thats ok, no offense taken. I thought maybe I wasn't clear on what this thread was to be about. Nice to see so many responses though I didn't mean for this thread to turn into a Z28 vs SS thread, but I guess there is no way around it, at least its not full blown........yet.

what colors????

Interior trim???


Eletron Blue or equivalent with Silver stripes, Chrome wheels w/red calipers.


Black Leather seats w/Red inserts and red stitching on seats, steering wheel, shifter/boot, & brake handle.

How about a Factory Pick-Up Option like the Corvette in Bowling Green?
Well actually its museum pick-up option, but close enough.

2nd choice for exterior color would be Daytona Sunset Orange.

Most Camaro enthusiasts want the Z28 (or Z/28 ;)) to return to greatness, they want the name to mean something again. Z28 is Camaro, SS is everything. Z28 was complete performance, SS was straight line and had a range of low-high powered engines/options. (not talking half of the 4th Gen here) :think:

I will say, that I REALLY hope that MANY of us here and on other boards did not constantly discuss, argue, lobby, present facts, opinions, make shirts, emblems, express feeling, make sigs, etc., for no reason all this time. When is the last time a designation or something like that was lobbied for in such a way? Was the SS stuck up for like this? Not in the slightest, and many SS supporters turned around once they understood both models better. I liken it to RP constantly convincing people inside GM for years to get a new Camaro, so I would hope he knows how it feels to want to be heard and answered in a really impressive and exciting way.

Eletron Blue or equivalent with Silver stripes, Chrome wheels w/red calipers.


Black Leather seats w/Red inserts and red stitching on seats, steering wheel, shifter/boot, & brake handle.

How about a Factory Pick-Up Option like the Corvette in Bowling Green?
Well actually its museum pick-up option, but close enough.

2nd choice for exterior color would be Daytona Sunset Orange.

Concerning your color choices----->:thumb:

Do you really want to go to Canada to get the car tho? Anywhere in the US, OK, I don't know about crossing the border. I can't explain why I feel that way, I guess that's where I draw the line.

I will say, that I REALLY hope that MANY of us here and on other boards did not constantly discuss, argue, lobby, present facts, opinions, make shirts, emblems, express feeling, make sigs, etc., for no reason all this time. When is the last time a designation or something like that was lobbied for in such a way? Was the SS stuck up for like this? Not in the slightest, and many SS supporters turned around once they understood both models better.

Oh, there are plenty of us SS advocates out there... and instead of writing endlessly on message boards, etc... we forked over the $$$.

I spent $30,000...
You bought a T-shirt and hit "Submit Reply" a lot...

In the immortal words of Mr. Gump:
"That's all I have to say about that."

Oh, there are plenty of us SS advocates out there... and instead of writing endlessly on message boards, etc... we forked over the $$$.

I spent $30,000...
You bought a T-shirt and hit "Submit Reply" a lot...

In the immortal words of Mr. Gump:
"That's all I have to say about that."
Good show. I did the same thing (well, I only spend $28k).

I spent $30,000...
You bought a T-shirt and hit "Submit Reply" a lot...


:lol: IZ28, he does have a point there. Although to be honest with you, I would've lusted after the top Camaro whether it was called Z28, Z/28 ( :rolleyes: ), SS, LS, LT, PCP, NAACP, whatever! ;)

I don't think a little "role-reversal" at the top with those two trim levels (which both have a rich history of performance at Chevy) would upset the apple cart too much.

I can see where everyone is coming from on this. I've stayed out of the fray before. Here's my thoughts:

Why can't Z28 and SS both share the limelight? Hell I don't care if they call it IROC, I just want Camaro back on the streets. In all, I wish it were like the 60's where you could have a Z/28 SS RS...

If you look at Chevy's current marketing scheme, SS is like a combination of option packages. Look at the 4th Gen SS. While not so bad as its sister Trans Am, where it could "only" be had with T-tops and leather, along with many other "options", I can see the 5th Gen SS coming out with such things as heated seats, nav, hud, etc. that I would consider necessary for GM to do with the car to make it a competitor not only against Mustang, but with the LX cars, along with other car manufacturers' vehicles--i.e. BMW, Benz, Mitsu, Nissan, etc. While you may say Camaro was never meant to be compared with these types of vehicles, magazines will compare, as will many buyers. What if Camaro SS was a bad ass little pony car with enough luxury to lure some BMW buyers??? I would be thrilled.

I personally like Z28 (Z/28), whatever it may be, as the top dog. As I said earlier, I'd like SS/RS packages to be available for the Z28, however, more realistically, I see the Z28 being the "Z06" of Camaro.

I always wanted a 4th gen SS, simply for the looks, but I couldn't afford it. My Z28, which still hauls ass, I could. I don't know where pricing should fall, as I believe many options with a smaller motor could produce an equal price to that of a lesser optioned car with a fire breather.

Ultimately, it's December. It's almost here. I'm excited just to see it.

repeat after me....

there has never been a Z28/SS.

Yes.....on the 4th gen, the SS model started as a Z28, (and in 96 and 97, SLP did the complete conversion.....) ....but we were very clear about keeping the nameplates separate. In fact, we asked (make that demanded) that SLP not make anything in terms of wearables with Z28-SS on them. (and I have one of the shirts to prove it!!)

repeat after me....

there has never been a Z28/SS.

Yes.....on the 4th gen, the SS model started as a Z28, (and in 96 and 97, SLP did the complete conversion.....) ....but we were very clear about keeping the nameplates separate. In fact, we asked (make that demanded) that SLP not make anything in terms of wearables with Z28-SS on them. (and I have one of the shirts to prove it!!)

Don't they list it on carfax as a z28 SS. I think that it is listed that way on Kelly Blue Book as well. Hell, if I remember correctly, thats how it was listed on an insurance quote.

hmmm, i could have sworn you could order a 69 z28 with the ss or rs packages.
of course, my knowledge isn't much compared to yours on the subject... maybe that's just ebay cramping Camaro's style.

<-- wasn't around in '69.

Nope.....never been a z/28-SS...ever....

<< Was around in 1969...

<< Was around in 1969...

Who are you kidding?

You were around in 1669, your first car was a Buggy SS.

Who are you kidding?

You were around in 1669, your first car was a Buggy SS.

EXCUSE ME!!...It was a Buggy Z/28.....thank you very much!

I'm not older than dirt.....but I do remember the 1st truckload....:death:

hmmm, i could have sworn you could order a 69 z28 with the ss or rs packages.There was an RS/SS, the hide-away light "SS", but NOT and Z28/ss or rs.

EXCUSE ME!!...It was a Buggy Z/28.....thank you very much!

I'm not older than dirt.....but I do remember the 1st truckload....:death:

I remember the first ones too.

Sometime in the fall of 1966, I remember peering out the back window of my dad's '63 Tempest and seeing my first Camaro stopped at a traffic light next to us. It was a brand new '67 Deepwater Blue RS with a black vinyl top.


I haven't been quite right since. :)

There was an RS/SS, the hide-away light "SS", but NOT and Z28/ss or rs.


Uhhh.....from what I know, The Z28 and SS couldn't be put together, but a Z28 with the RS package was possible (just do a Google search and you'll see several Z28's with the RS option). RS was a trim package available on anything.

definitely feel like a n00b

There was an RS/SS, the hide-away light "SS", but NOT and Z28/ss or rs.


there most certainly were Z/28-RS 67 Camaros. i did a report on the history of the car in 5th grade(shows how long i've been hooked for) and actually got to see one in person and check the build sheet.

now i don't feel like a n00b

there most certainly were Z/28-RS 67 Camaros. i did a report on the history of the car in 5th grade(shows how long i've been hooked for) and actually got to see one in person and check the build sheet.


There were 69 z28/RS's as well.

There were 69 z28/RS's as well.
70 too.:p

rs was an appearence package. it could be combied with ss or z28.67 z28s did not have z28 emblems

repeat after me....

there has never been a Z28/SS.

Yes.....on the 4th gen, the SS model started as a Z28, (and in 96 and 97, SLP did the complete conversion.....) ....but we were very clear about keeping the nameplates separate. In fact, we asked (make that demanded) that SLP not make anything in terms of wearables with Z28-SS on them. (and I have one of the shirts to prove it!!)

Hmmm.....In late 1995, when the '96s were introduced the magazines had test car(s) that had Z28SS emblems on it. I don't know if they were pre-production cars or what because any production '96 SS's I've seen only have SS emblems. For reference: Car & Driver Oct. 1995, Car Carft Oct. 1995, and Hot Rod Feb. 1996

I'm not sure it really matters. For years the Z28 was the top Camaro, then with the 4th gen the SS became the top package. I think the return to the SS moniker was an attempt to bring back the good old days of the muscle car from the early 70s. I believe Z28 was originally a handling package. Then there was the RS which was a 60s/70s appearance package. The SS was an engine package (H.O. 350, 396).

If you were to use the SS badge today, it would/should be like a Cobra package with a super high output engine stacked on top of the Z28 car. You don't have to call the car a Z28 anymore, just an SS.

Hmmm.....In late 1995, when the '96s were introduced the magazines had test car(s) that had Z28SS emblems on it. I don't know if they were pre-production cars or what because any production '96 SS's I've seen only have SS emblems. For reference: Car & Driver Oct. 1995, Car Carft Oct. 1995, and Hot Rod Feb. 1996

They were preproduction models. The 96 models had key fobs with the Z28-SS on it as well as the air cleaner box, but they they were 96 specific things, and Chevy put a stop to it for whatever reason. Some of the original literature stated Z28/SS as well, but it didn't last very long.

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

:eek: :mad: RP- You....I mean...I oughta....grrrr......Just say.....grrr....what....why dont you just ....AAAAHHHHGGGGG!!!!

pant, pant, is it January yet?

SSo Z anzwer to the very lasst quesstion- yeSS. YeSS you are making ze
craz28y- but I kinda like itss....

What I would really love to see is a return to 1967-69: Base, RS, SS, Z/28 and COPO (427) Options!! PLUS a return to Color choices including: Garnet Red, Dusk Blue, Cortez Silver, Lemans Blue, Hugger Orange...etc.

Look at it this way......

When people say "I drive a Z28...."...a lot (and I do mean a lot) of people right away know it's a Camaro. When they say "I drive an SS"....you really have no idea of what the car or truck is...other than a Chevy.

Another thought.....

....the SS went away for quite a few years ....then returned.



(am I making you crazy yet???)

Hey Scott, that snippet would make most of Washington green with envy! You should seriously consider a future in politics.:D

Can someone (anyone) please tell me if they might know whether or not the 5th gen Camaro (V8 models) will come with "true dual" exhaust set-ups from the factory??? I've asked this question in this forum a few times now without a response. :D

Thanks and I'll be all over the Z28 LS7 (I hope) model when it comes out as well,

Mike :)

How I would do it:

SS - 5.3ish V8 with power similar to LS1. Few things like leather and power locks/windows standard. Softer suspension, geared for gas mileage (3.23s or 3.42s probably), but still one kick ass car.

Z28 - BIG V8 (LS7 pleeeeease!), 450-500 hp. Little lower, harder suspension, little more aggressive gearing (3.73s - 4.10s), a hood/spoiler combo that makes it stand apart, a non-nonsense ass-kicker

RS - ground effects package (similar to 4th-gen skirts) available on any model

But, I'm not gonna be mad as long as a V8, RWD, 2-door coupe comes out wearing that Camaro name. :bow:

My order:
Z28, M6, T-Tops, Pewter w/ black stripes, black leather, 4.10s, true duals for me. SS, A(4?6?), Red, vert, black leather w/ houndstooth inserts, 3.42s for the wife.

P.S. - All '96 SSs had plaques on the ashtray with a Z28SS logo, as well as one on the air filter holder, didn't they?