how much power with a powerdyne??? [Archive] - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board

94LT1_89TTA

11-18-2005, 02:42 PM

vin1382

11-19-2005, 01:03 AM

No problem, but be forewarned. I built it with all kinds of parts that everyone says won't work...

The engine is a 9.9:1 355 with stock crank, Manley 5.85" sportsman rods, and KB-197 hyperuetectic pistons. The heads are TFS LT1 G1's (yes twisted wedges) ported by Craig Gallant (GTP) in Houston. Same cam as yours. SLP headers, and 2OTL exhaust. Holley 58mm TB on ported stock intake. 42# injectors fed my a walbro 255L intank pump.

The PD is pullied with a 7" (crank), 3.1" (blower), 8 rib setup I had made by Autospecialties in Houston. I did that to eliminate belt slip. It makes 6 psi at 6500 rpm. I have broken (2) internal belts so far, but I have found a cheap source of parts, and replace them myself. I can only blame myself though as it was my choice to overspeed it. All in all it's been a good combination. It has been together for about 5 years. I tune it with LT1 edit, and it is run exclusively on pump gas with zero knock count.

T56 trans, McLeod dual disk with the aluminum FW into a KTRE 12-bolt with 3.90 richmond gear. That ET was on Firestone SZ50's (285/40/17).

Rog

certainly an impressive trap. I am going to get my stock heads/intake ported by LE(le1). Not sure what kind of flow numbers you got from your TW heads, and then corresponding port job.

Were you having problems with the stock powerdyne 6# pulley setup with belts breaking/slipping and thats why you went to a custom? I would actually be lookin at a 4.5# system, as I want to make a mild combo of just a touch over 400 rwhp ultimately(assuming the H/C/I setup puts my auto at about 360 rwhp). Probably run that until the engine goes. Then rebuild with a mild 355(forged pistons/rods)...and maybe dump the PD and upgrade somewhere else(turbo?). ill have to see how satisfied I am with 400 rwhp. Also impressive to see you running the same combo for 5 years. :cool:

94LT1_89TTA

11-19-2005, 06:43 PM

I never broke the drivebelt, but I had slippage issues from the start. I also wanted to overdrive it early on. Rather than go the smaller blower pulley route that I knew would just slip more, I went with bigger pullies on both ends for more belt wrap (contact area) and upped it to 8 rib since they were custom anyway. Glad I did. Good luck with yours. You shouldn't have any issues at 4.5#.

I will have to dig up the flow sheet on the heads. They are really good at mid lift on the intake, 279 at .550" I think.

Rog

canbaufo

11-23-2005, 05:10 PM

Rog is being a bit humble. I think his car represents about the best that can be done with a Powerdyne (really probably 500 rwhp based on his 123.6 trap) without the use of water/alcohol/N20. He basically designed his engine to make the most of the PD he already had, so he runs lightweight parts, highest effective C.R. he can consistently get away with on pump gas, ideal cam for his heads, etc. He helped me (and continues to help me) tremendously with mine and I'm proud to say mine probably makes something in the neighborhood of 450 rwhp (maf has hit 466 gps).

The advantages are the extreme quietness and being self contained, and even I can r&r one and I'm no mechanical guru. As Rog stated, the disadvantage is 450 hp is the typical limit for most ....if you know how to design around it and overspin it some ~500 is achievable.

Personally, I wish I had gone the Vortech route because I'd like to have intercooling, a spring loaded tensioner, some gear whine, and another ~60ish rwhp, and a blower that's less likely to break. As far as power goes though what I'd really enjoy is the increased low and mid range torque from more like 9-10 PSI than the 6 PSI I run now.

Overall I would say the PD got me close to where I really want to be now (500-550 rwhp) and it's a good item to buy used if you think you might want to switch later. I always assumed like ~375 rwhp would be "plenty" for me, that was part of my decision to go the PD route. I was pretty happy with that combo (6.45 crank pulley, 2.93 blower pulley, long tubes, stock longblock exc 1.6 RR's) and it made a corrected 384 rwhp 402 rwtq on very conservative dyno tuning. Then I went through a rebuild (probably didn't need to, loooong story) and planned to switch to a Vortech while in the process but couldn't find a used one in a timely fashion. Rog designed my engine to be a compromise best of both worlds to work well with 6 PSI or optimally at 9 PSI later on since it was undecided what I would do. I had decided that I could afford a shortblock capable of handling 500 hp so he designed the longblock to make that with 9 PSI. He even factored in the ring gaps opening up over time and things like that, very sharp guy to say the least. Gotta brag on ya some Rog, you're "the man" as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway trouse40, research it and make your comparisons carefully before you make a decision, there are obviously a lot of factors to consider.

Jeff 96 SS

11-23-2005, 05:56 PM

Damn ROG you live in Fredneck too wow so do I. I guess Fredneck is the home of the fastest PD cars My PD SS went 11.1 @ 122. My opinion of the PD is its good for a street car. That is what my SS is built for I have My TA for some street cruising and 9s at the track.

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

canbaufo

11-23-2005, 09:42 PM

Jeff, I haven't been posting on here much lately ....good to see you're still in here, you gave me lots of tips a few years back and I appreciate it. I had the green Z that was stuck at John Sealock's for a good portion of 2002 lol ...that will probably ring a bell. I think he's a good guy but he sure had his hands full with my old combination. If I remember right Jeff, didn't you say your combo hit ~430 rwhp on conservative tuning? (pretty good) I don't think you're overspinning yours like Rog and I are either.

I guess this thread can prove to some of the PD bashers that they can be a pretty good item for the street and make good power when the engine is matched up fairly well or ideally. Much of the bashing is well founded though, I have to admit. My dislikes are: no spring loaded tensioner, no high boost and/or intercooling option, very poor alignment of discharge tube and up pipe, no bypass valve included in kit (albeit not needed in most cases). However I like the quietness most of the time (sometimes I wish there was at least a little more noise) and the ease of operation/R&R/being self contained is good. They are cheaper than others as mentioned too and can be rebuilt with better internals. btw I think the six rib pullies are kind of lame, forcing you to either overtighten to prevent slip which may ruin bearings, or leave it somewhat loose to help bearing life, knowing it may cause slippage. This is why I went with a larger custom crank pulley from ASP rather than a smaller blower pulley like the 2.7" PD sells to get a little more boost (more surface area for grip, as Rog stated). All of these little things can be overcome, but at what cost? (custom pullies, bypass valve, N2O in lieu of extra boost when you want more power, etc .....it can add up). It's really just fine left just as is if all you ever want to do is run ~6 PSI on a stockish or mild motor though.

96PTKZ28

11-23-2005, 09:52 PM

Three words to answer your question, NOT VERY MUCH! I dont care for powerdyne anything. Just my opinion. Good day

Jeff 96 SS

11-23-2005, 10:01 PM

canbaufo Ya I remember you well I felt pretty bad about recommending you go see John when you started having all the problems but I know it wasn't John screwing you it was just some freak issues with your car oh well I'm glad you have your car sorted out now.

I'm running a 7 inch crank pully and the 4.5# blower pully which I think pretty much maxes out that little blower but its plenty of power for a street car :) with ocassonial trips to the track.

I removed my intercooler on my other car and started experimenting with alky injection and know I'm a big beleiver and may go ahead and throw a kit on the PD car know too. I'm maxing my D1 with alky and no IC and making big power!!!

Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

canbaufo

11-23-2005, 10:19 PM

Jeff, I had pretty much decided on Woodbridge anyway. There were some freak issues and John is an honest guy. Some of the ways he tackled things weren't the smartest though, not that I could do any better. Thanks to Rog I have my car sorted out....you think my issues at the dyno shop were bad, you should have seen what went down with the rebuild. There were all kinds of issues during the rebuild, as I had a somewhat inexperienced mechanic and a machine shop with zero communication skills. After more than a year I finally gave up on my mechanic and took it to Rog, he figured out that my cam grind was wrong even though the ICL was pretty close and it appeared to be the right grind at a glance. He found a bunch of other little issues my mechanic missed and others he likely couldn't have figured out, I can't tell you how much he helped me and am forever indebted as far as I'm concerned. He put an end to a really bad nightmare and I wound up with a really cool combination that he had designed.

I could see where the alky injection could significantly improve power on the PD, not via allowing for extra boost since there isn't room for a significant gain (your impellor rpm is just slightly over mine with that pulley combo, mine hit's max impellor rpm at 6,400) but you could combine more aggresive tuning with the lowered combustion chamber temp to get a good gain, especially on hot days of course. Let us know how that works out. I suppose I'd consider something like water injection or alcohol injection someday, and that would probably be safer than a small shot of nitrous.

What kind of traps do you see with that 396? ~145?

Jeff 96 SS

11-23-2005, 10:35 PM

canbaufo

11-23-2005, 11:02 PM

Check this thread to see
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409495&highlight=jeff

Lets just say I see almost 4 times the boost and almost double the power that my PD car makes :)

I have solved the problems I was having in that post with bogging off the line so I need a track! I think it has a few tenths and a few MPH left in it :)
Jeff
96 SS BLOWN
96 TA 396 D1

Holy crap! Nice pic of the launch. lol, I was just guessing about ~145 mph and pretty much nailed it. I'm kind of surprised you can get that kind of power out of the AFR 190's....but look at all the stuff you're forcing through them lol. Freaking impressive as hell though. I could never have the patience to work three years on an expensive project like that. Good job!

vin1382

11-25-2005, 10:51 PM

IROCARMY

11-26-2005, 12:34 AM

I have a PD on my 1997 LT-1 Camaro, I like its good boost of power. The charger has over 20,000 miles without any problems. My buddy had his on a 1993 Firehawk and it was used on two other cars afterwards. He got 80rwhp from the 4.5# pulley. I hope to get mine on the dyno soon. They are not as capable as other chargers. But they are proven chargers for modest boost. Now if you plan to get wild in the future, then PD might become a bottleneck.

I would like to try the 6# pulley, but I need to upgrade the ignition and fuel system.

P.S. PD is seldom heard when running and is really buried in the engine, most people don't even see it (LT-1)

IROCARMY

11-26-2005, 12:40 AM

vin1382

11-26-2005, 01:09 AM

VIN1382

I just notice that you also have a 1993 Hawk, like my friend does. His best RWHP has about 350. I believ that was at 4.5 pounds. With other bolt-on parts(no cam or heads). Just TB, Rockers,chip,etc. 6-Speed
Best ET was 12.5.
Now its a cam head car.

nice..dont see too many 93 hawks around. :cool:. what build number was he?

figure hes got around 290-300 rwhp if hes got all bolt-ons on an M6(as most ive seen are around this range)..so thats a good 50-60 rwhp hp gain from the 4.5# pully...which aint bad at all. the 4.5# pulley might get me there then...

20,000 miles on the 4.5#? thats not bad at all..i drive my car like 2,000-3,000miles a year at most. what kind of tune are you running with your charger now?

you say the blower is seldom heard...can you hear it at all during idle, or at full throttle?

IROCARMY

11-26-2005, 01:19 AM

You can hear a faint whistle when in low gear. The PD gives a great punch in the low end. I have a stock tune right now, will be doing a PCMforless. First will do a baseline dyno

vin1382

11-26-2005, 01:24 AM

You can hear a faint whistle when in low gear. The PD gives a great punch in the low end. I have a stock tune right now, will be doing a PCMforless. First will do a baseline dyno

what mods beside the PD do you have? Please pm me when you get your dyno! and then again after the tune, i am anxious to see the results!

IROCARMY

11-26-2005, 10:12 AM

I have 1.6 rockers, BBK Mid-headers, Y pipe, Borla cat back,electric WP, SPEC-3, 315 Yokohomas AVS in the back, and other suspension chnages.
This is a black 1997 1LE, where the previous owner did most of the mods, I bought the car loaded with goodies. It only has 45,000 miles. I will post up before and after runs now that we have a local dyno.

canbaufo

11-26-2005, 11:26 AM

So, if i dont want to overspin/mod the PD, and im running the PD with a 6# pully just to get me into the 420-430 rwhp range on my combo(which includes h/c/i or approx 360 rwhp), would you say that the blower istelf is pretty reliable? I've heard these things on mustangs need to be rebuilt all the time because of bad bearings, or a slipping belt..but from the people i've heard on here..its a hit or miss. I am somewhat concerned that the porting of the heads/intake will cause me to lose some boost, but im not sure if thats going to correlate to lost power, as flow should be more efficient. That being said, lower boost, but same power with less potential for detonation = win situation??

Whats the power curve like on the powerdyne..do you pick up alot of lowend/mid range power as well?

Honestly it depends on a few variables of course. With the 6# setup on a BD-11 or later model your odds of good blower life are good as long as you don't overtighten the belt and/or routinely run the sh!t out of your car. For good bearing life you may want to tolerate a small amount of belt slip, evidenced by rubber shavings on the cooling fins of the sc. Unfortunately this is a very subjective process but I would say the old "1/4 turn rule" on the belt will serve you well as to how tight you should have it ...or say 1/2 - 3/4 inch of deflection when pushing on the belt. If you get an old used PD that is a BD-10 model ...you may have less reliability. If you buy used make sure it's a BD-11 or newer, the internals are stronger. Yes, with the regular 6# pulley setup you should have no problem hitting 420-430. If you're truly sure (not sure how you can be though) that's enough for you then the PD is a fine choice if you want to be quiet and simple.

Yes, since you have heads/cam you will not see as much restriction which will lower the 6# kit to more like 4 1/2 to 5.0 ...don't worry about it though, it's still moving the same amount of air it's just getting through the engine easier. This is nothing but positive stuff in many ways. You would make far more power with the heads/cam and 6# kit showing 4.5# on gauge than stock with the 6# kit showing 6# on gauge and have less detonation potential, cooler intake charge, less strain on the blower and crank, less opportunity for belt slip, less need to have external belt tight, better bearing life, etc. If you leave it this way for awhile and make 420-430 and get bored, later on you could step up to a custom pulley setup (I would go with a 7 inch crank if you get the 4.5# kit or a 6.5 inch crank if you get the 6# kit, either provides about the same impellor rpm ....or, if you want to go fully custom and get 8 rib pullies then use 7.0 crank and 3.12 inch blower pulley for max contact area). The power increase will be small though and you will be at significantly higher risk of breaking the internal belt or toasting bearings. You're not likely to top 450 rwhp unless you have longer rods, lightweight rotating assembly, really really good heads, optimally matched cam, 58mm TB, etc.

You do not pick up a lot of low end torque with the PD because it cannot be pullied up high enough to make significant boost below ~ 3K. The midrange is definitely noticeably stronger though, and the topend is the most significant difference obviously. I'd say on mine it's making an extra 15 lbs of torque at 2,500 compared to heads/cam only, the torque and power difference compared to N/A increases in a somewhat linear fashion as the revs rise above that. I'm guessing by 3,500 I've picked up an extra 40 lbs of torque, 4,500 the torque difference is probably close to peaked at around 80 lbs or so but the HP difference is still increasing and doesn't stop all the way to redline. My old setup with 6.45 crank and 2.93 blower pulley (let's call it a "7.5# upgrade") on stock engine w/1.6 rr's and long tubes made 384 rwhp at 5,600 and 402 rwtq at 4,400. I figure my peaks with the cam and heads are now around 6,000 and 5,000 respectively. For reference to how much difference cam/heads made, my old setup made 7.5 lbs of boost on the gauge, now that same pulley combo makes 6.0 lbs with the cam and heads. But I figure my peak HP and TQ is more like 450 and 475. I can't really overspin the blower further because it's hitting about 43,000 impellor rpm at 6,400 engine rpm, and 43K is the impellor redline on the PD and I can rev to 6,500 if I want to. I've hit a wall unless I use water/alcy injection and more aggressive tuning, or N2O of course. I'd prefer to just switch to an S-Trim and use a pretty safe setup for my bottom end, about 9 PSI through an Aftercooler to get me to 500+ rwhp and more consistent performance in the hot summer heat. For now, I'm just going to enjoy what I've got for awhile ....as it's a little faster than some might expect being so quiet, and 6# is a really safe boost level for my 9.5:1 C.R.

Again, think your choices over carefully and don't rush into this.

vin1382

11-26-2005, 01:39 PM

Honestly it depends on a few variables of course. With the 6# setup on a BD-11 or later model your odds of good blower life are good as long as you don't overtighten the belt and/or routinely run the sh!t out of your car. For good bearing life you may want to tolerate a small amount of belt slip, evidenced by rubber shavings on the cooling fins of the sc. Unfortunately this is a very subjective process but I would say the old "1/4 turn rule" on the belt will serve you well as to how tight you should have it ...or say 1/2 - 3/4 inch of deflection when pushing on the belt. If you get an old used PD that is a BD-10 model ...you may have less reliability. If you buy used make sure it's a BD-11 or newer, the internals are stronger. Yes, with the regular 6# pulley setup you should have no problem hitting 420-430. If you're truly sure (not sure how you can be though) that's enough for you then the PD is a fine choice if you want to be quiet and simple.

Yes, since you have heads/cam you will not see as much restriction which will lower the 6# kit to more like 4 1/2 to 5.0 ...don't worry about it though, it's still moving the same amount of air it's just getting through the engine easier. This is nothing but positive stuff in many ways. You would make far more power with the heads/cam and 6# kit showing 4.5# on gauge than stock with the 6# kit showing 6# on gauge and have less detonation potential, cooler intake charge, less strain on the blower and crank, less opportunity for belt slip, less need to have external belt tight, better bearing life, etc. If you leave it this way for awhile and make 420-430 and get bored, later on you could step up to a custom pulley setup (I would go with a 7 inch crank if you get the 4.5# kit or a 6.5 inch crank if you get the 6# kit, either provides about the same impellor rpm ....or, if you want to go fully custom and get 8 rib pullies then use 7.0 crank and 3.12 inch blower pulley for max contact area). The power increase will be small though and you will be at significantly higher risk of breaking the internal belt or toasting bearings. You're not likely to top 450 rwhp unless you have longer rods, lightweight rotating assembly, really really good heads, optimally matched cam, 58mm TB, etc.

You do not pick up a lot of low end torque with the PD because it cannot be pullied up high enough to make significant boost below ~ 3K. The midrange is definitely noticeably stronger though, and the topend is the most significant difference obviously. I'd say on mine it's making an extra 15 lbs of torque at 2,500 compared to heads/cam only, the torque and power difference compared to N/A increases in a somewhat linear fashion as the revs rise above that. I'm guessing by 3,500 I've picked up an extra 40 lbs of torque, 4,500 the torque difference is probably close to peaked at around 80 lbs or so but the HP difference is still increasing and doesn't stop all the way to redline. My old setup with 6.45 crank and 2.93 blower pulley (let's call it a "7.5# upgrade") on stock engine w/1.6 rr's and long tubes made 384 rwhp at 5,600 and 402 rwtq at 4,400. I figure my peaks with the cam and heads are now around 6,000 and 5,000 respectively. For reference to how much difference cam/heads made, my old setup made 7.5 lbs of boost on the gauge, now that same pulley combo makes 6.0 lbs with the cam and heads. But I figure my peak HP and TQ is more like 450 and 475. I can't really overspin the blower further because it's hitting about 43,000 impellor rpm at 6,400 engine rpm, and 43K is the impellor redline on the PD and I can rev to 6,500 if I want to. I've hit a wall unless I use water/alcy injection and more aggressive tuning, or N2O of course. I'd prefer to just switch to an S-Trim and use a pretty safe setup for my bottom end, about 9 PSI through an Aftercooler to get me to 500+ rwhp and more consistent performance in the hot summer heat. For now, I'm just going to enjoy what I've got for awhile ....as it's a little faster than some might expect being so quiet, and 6# is a really safe boost level for my 9.5:1 C.R.

Again, think your choices over carefully and don't rush into this.

EXCELLENT post..very informative!! I'm still probably about a year away from supercharging, as I still need to get my heads/intake ported, and also my suspension in good working order(even as my car sits now, its all over the freaking road..though not quite as bad with drag radials now).

Depending on how well that goes and how much power im making, how satisfied I am, etc...then i'll go with a supercharger. Quite honestly, i'd be concerned with my safety driving a car with mid 400 rwhp around on the roads..considering how easy it is for things to get squirrely even now. I am very paranoid about safety, as I got into a very nasty accident with my last car. As i've never had a car with over 400 rwhp before, im not sure how much control you can get with it on the streets..even with a well tuned suspension. So right now, I am considering mid 400 rwhp to be my limit for what I feel safe for the street...but i won't know until I get there! Worse comes to worse, and i get bored with it and more comfortable, ill toss on some nitrous.

IROCARMY

11-26-2005, 02:30 PM

I see used PD for sale here all the time, some times for only $1000. I heard that you can rebuild them yourself or have a shop do it. Just don't send it to PD for service.

vin1382

11-26-2005, 06:52 PM

I see used PD for sale here all the time, some times for only $1000. I heard that you can rebuild them yourself or have a shop do it. Just don't send it to PD for service.

Yea i see them for that price too..and thats what i was thinking of picking up. Can't go wrong with that price.

canbaufo

11-27-2005, 03:17 AM

EXCELLENT post..very informative!! I'm still probably about a year away from supercharging, as I still need to get my heads/intake ported, and also my suspension in good working order(even as my car sits now, its all over the freaking road..though not quite as bad with drag radials now).

Depending on how well that goes and how much power im making, how satisfied I am, etc...then i'll go with a supercharger. Quite honestly, i'd be concerned with my safety driving a car with mid 400 rwhp around on the roads..considering how easy it is for things to get squirrely even now. I am very paranoid about safety, as I got into a very nasty accident with my last car. As i've never had a car with over 400 rwhp before, im not sure how much control you can get with it on the streets..even with a well tuned suspension. So right now, I am considering mid 400 rwhp to be my limit for what I feel safe for the street...but i won't know until I get there! Worse comes to worse, and i get bored with it and more comfortable, ill toss on some nitrous.

Mid 200 rwhp isn't safe for the street if you let it all out, it's all in how you drive it. Once you hit higher hp levels you just assume that the tires may break loose at any moment, even at part throttle in mid range gears, and be prepared to lift off the throttle and make a steering correction or two.

Don't go the blower + nitrous route unless your bottom end is really stout.

vin1382

11-27-2005, 01:14 PM

Mid 200 rwhp isn't safe for the street if you let it all out, it's all in how you drive it. Once you hit higher hp levels you just assume that the tires may break loose at any moment, even at part throttle in mid range gears, and be prepared to lift off the throttle and make a steering correction or two.

Don't go the blower + nitrous route unless your bottom end is really stout.

LOL, i can definatly see that causing alot of problems on a stock bottom end :D. If I do decide to toss some nitrous in there, I'd definatly upgrade the bottom end..and probably do a forged 355. I've heard that the bottom end starts to get questionable once you hit around 500 flywheel or so hp, and I'd be at that level with just the PD blower. I'd hope to stave off detonation with lower boost levels...but you just never know.

One question though about the compression of the forged 355 when i build it..if i dropped the compression say to a ~9:5:1 or so, how much would that effect my HP prior to a nitrous hit? I am concerned that my heads, which will be a LE1 heads, and my cam, etc, would not be optimized for that...as it was built with stock compression in mind. Will forged pistions/rings and a compression level of stock last in your opinion...or is it just begging for another rebuild?

canbaufo

11-27-2005, 11:34 PM

LOL, i can definatly see that causing alot of problems on a stock bottom end :D. If I do decide to toss some nitrous in there, I'd definatly upgrade the bottom end..and probably do a forged 355. I've heard that the bottom end starts to get questionable once you hit around 500 flywheel or so hp, and I'd be at that level with just the PD blower. I'd hope to stave off detonation with lower boost levels...but you just never know.

One question though about the compression of the forged 355 when i build it..if i dropped the compression say to a ~9:5:1 or so, how much would that effect my HP prior to a nitrous hit? I am concerned that my heads, which will be a LE1 heads, and my cam, etc, would not be optimized for that...as it was built with stock compression in mind. Will forged pistions/rings and a compression level of stock last in your opinion...or is it just begging for another rebuild?

Well, a 100-shot on a stock cam/heads combination will make quite a bit of power (esp torque) and stock cam/heads are not optimized for nitrous. Most people who go the blower route like to lower compression to ~ 8.0 - 9.0 and plan to be able to push lots of boost if they please. In my case I knew I could only afford a bottom end strong enough for about 600 flywheel hp. That really doesn't require a lot of boost on a well built engine. Rog, who helped me design my engine (well, he pretty much designed it really) felt there was no need for me to go lower than 9.6:1 if 9 PSI (or sub 600 flywheel hp with good heads and cam) was the most I'd be built to handle anyway. My effective compression ratio is safe and appears to be free of any real knock, especially pushing merely 6 PSI as I am right now. The E.R. should be safe for pump gas at 9 PSI as well, but that's about the limit. This is fine for me since 500 at the wheels is all I'm interested in making and about the limit of my budget forged bottom end. For good torque, throttle response, and mpg it's probably best to make as much compression as you can use on pump gas safely with whatever boost level you're using (it's really about targeting the highest safe E.C.). High boost and low compression is best for maximum power, but for a street car on an affordable bottom end I think it's better to use less boost and moderate to high compression.

Since your heads are mild (cam too I think ...I forgot or never knew your specs) you'd probably run fine on 9.5 C.R. with less than 10 PSI ....would have to really know the specs to be sure though. FWIW right now I'm driving mine without the blower (it's being rebuilt but really only had a bad key I believe) and using more aggressive fuel and timing curves to make up for it. Just N/A this 9.5:1 (we wanted 9.6 but it would up at 9.5) engine runs great with a cam that was designed for 9 PSI and mild 2.0/1.57 Lloyd Elliot heads that were also designed for low boost. Plenty of torque without the blower ....probably hitting similar numbers as before with the blower on stock motor (384 hp, 402 tq) with only slightly less torque and considerably more useable rpm. Since mine is designed for low boost, it's not so different from what would work best N/A. I really like that it can run strong without the blower.

No, I would not rebuild at 10.4:1 compression unless I knew I wanted to go N/A for sure, or maybe nitrous; 10.4 is just too much static C.R. to use with any boost truthfully. Using enough boost to make any real power difference on a 10.4 engine really needs some crutches here and there, like colder plugs, fairly rich fuel, fairly low timing, perhaps mixing some race gas in, etc. Nitrous is going to make significant power regardless of not having the optimal design, for me the C.R wouldn't be a concern there ...if you were going with less than 9.5:1 maybe, but it depends on how much boost you'd really end up with in the end. I'm no expert but I'd think if you plan to use N2O and boost you would probably want to go lower with the C.R.

vin1382

11-28-2005, 06:39 PM

Well, a 100-shot on a stock cam/heads combination will make quite a bit of power (esp torque) and stock cam/heads are not optimized for nitrous. Most people who go the blower route like to lower compression to ~ 8.0 - 9.0 and plan to be able to push lots of boost if they please. In my case I knew I could only afford a bottom end strong enough for about 600 flywheel hp. That really doesn't require a lot of boost on a well built engine. Rog, who helped me design my engine (well, he pretty much designed it really) felt there was no need for me to go lower than 9.6:1 if 9 PSI (or sub 600 flywheel hp with good heads and cam) was the most I'd be built to handle anyway. My effective compression ratio is safe and appears to be free of any real knock, especially pushing merely 6 PSI as I am right now. The E.R. should be safe for pump gas at 9 PSI as well, but that's about the limit. This is fine for me since 500 at the wheels is all I'm interested in making and about the limit of my budget forged bottom end. For good torque, throttle response, and mpg it's probably best to make as much compression as you can use on pump gas safely with whatever boost level you're using (it's really about targeting the highest safe E.C.). High boost and low compression is best for maximum power, but for a street car on an affordable bottom end I think it's better to use less boost and moderate to high compression.

Since your heads are mild (cam too I think ...I forgot or never knew your specs) you'd probably run fine on 9.5 C.R. with less than 10 PSI ....would have to really know the specs to be sure though. FWIW right now I'm driving mine without the blower (it's being rebuilt but really only had a bad key I believe) and using more aggressive fuel and timing curves to make up for it. Just N/A this 9.5:1 (we wanted 9.6 but it would up at 9.5) engine runs great with a cam that was designed for 9 PSI and mild 2.0/1.57 Lloyd Elliot heads that were also designed for low boost. Plenty of torque without the blower ....probably hitting similar numbers as before with the blower on stock motor (384 hp, 402 tq) with only slightly less torque and considerably more useable rpm. Since mine is designed for low boost, it's not so different from what would work best N/A. I really like that it can run strong without the blower.

No, I would not rebuild at 10.4:1 compression unless I knew I wanted to go N/A for sure, or maybe nitrous; 10.4 is just too much static C.R. to use with any boost truthfully. Using enough boost to make any real power difference on a 10.4 engine really needs some crutches here and there, like colder plugs, fairly rich fuel, fairly low timing, perhaps mixing some race gas in, etc. Nitrous is going to make significant power regardless of not having the optimal design, for me the C.R wouldn't be a concern there ...if you were going with less than 9.5:1 maybe, but it depends on how much boost you'd really end up with in the end. I'm no expert but I'd think if you plan to use N2O and boost you would probably want to go lower with the C.R.

I certainly have lots to think about. and the hard part for me, is i am not sure what I will be happy with..because this is all new to me. hell, i might end up happy with my N/A combo..but i doubt it.

As for boost, i think ultimately in the end i'd want to max it at 6 psi, as that seems to be the reliable limit of the powerdyne...and i think i would hit my power goal, or maybe slightly exceed it. I'd throw that onto my N/A combo ..and then most likely when rebuild time comes along, I'll evaluate whether or not i was happy with the combo..and rebuild accordingly to add a shot of nitrous if necessary.

I really appreciate your well thought out posts. I've learned alot, answered alot questions I had about going this route..and im sure other readers will have picked up alot as well. :cool:

canbaufo

11-29-2005, 11:27 PM

I certainly have lots to think about. and the hard part for me, is i am not sure what I will be happy with..because this is all new to me. hell, i might end up happy with my N/A combo..but i doubt it.

As for boost, i think ultimately in the end i'd want to max it at 6 psi, as that seems to be the reliable limit of the powerdyne...and i think i would hit my power goal, or maybe slightly exceed it. I'd throw that onto my N/A combo ..and then most likely when rebuild time comes along, I'll evaluate whether or not i was happy with the combo..and rebuild accordingly to add a shot of nitrous if necessary.

I really appreciate your well thought out posts. I've learned alot, answered alot questions I had about going this route..and im sure other readers will have picked up alot as well. :cool:

After all the help I've received from many in here it's the least I can do. I'm no expert but just telling you what I've learned and most importantly to research it yourself and try to see a pattern of what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately you're going to get a lot of different opinions and information. Best way to go about it is listen to those who give you actual data you can understand, figure out who the "experts" really are, then you compare their info and will likely find it starts to vary considerably less than the info you'll get from a whole gambit of posters.

There are many things accepted as common knowledge and truth that aren't really true for every application in most cases. Like needing a really broad LSA cam to use with a blower for example. That's not really true if you're using low to moderate boost and really depends on other variables, like how your heads flow on the intake vs the exhaust, what type of headers and exhaust you're using, the size of your throttle body, etc. Usually a 112 LSA (depending on duration and advance of course) cam is going to be plenty of separation for a 6 - 12 PSI blower/mild heads setup and going any wider is just going to cost you some low end if you don't need it. Just an example, I don't apply this knowledge often enough to show you the math on it off the top of my head but I can dig some stuff up that should make sense to you if you'd like it and could e-mail it to you.

If you'd decide to rebuild strong enough for two power adders that's cool but it will cost you if you really want to do it right. Personally I'd rather just use more boost than low boost plus small shot but that's just me. If you'd only use the nitrous once in awhile or only at the track it could be beneficial long term to set it up low boost plus small shot. If you'd rather have the power on tap all the time obviously you'd be better off with simply using more boost. I think that's way cooler myself, and probably less risk to the bottom end when you're at full tilt. I could go on and on but it's all really just pros and cons. I just fear you may be thinking of having a PD pullied at 6 PSI on a mild motor and figure adding say... a 100 shot on top of it would work well, I have my doubts. The quicker reving incurred by the 100 shot would overwhelm a PD's internal belt and/or cause excessive slippage of the external belt. Some use a stronger Kevlar internal belt and still break it without any N2O just from having it pullied up a little bit over 6 PSI. N2O comes on with that "BAM!!" hit and anything over a 50 shot would surely be too much for a PD, especially with an M6 with the quick changes in RPM and loading/unloading. I'm not convinced a 50 shot would truly work well either.

This all comes back to what your ultimate goal is. If you think you want lots of power later on then stay away from the PD. I hate to bash my own blower but figure honesty's the best policy. If you're truly sure you're cool with 450 hp or less then sure ...go for it.

BTW I also want to clarify one of my earlier posts. One of the advantages of going with higher compression and less boost vs lower compression and more boost is better light throttle response and low (LOW) end torque along with better mpg and overall driveability. Tuning will be easier too.

IROCARMY

11-29-2005, 11:41 PM

canbaufo

11-30-2005, 01:10 AM

Not to hijack, many good points.
I have the 4.5 PD and I like it, but it came with the car, CURRENTLY no boost gauge, its in the garage. Here are some questions that I need help with.
1. Anybody make or experience seeing a different intake tube/track. Heard of an extra pound of boost, with the use of homemade intake tube(Stock LT-1)
2. Although belt slip is not an issue, anybody use an aftermarket/homemade tensioner( I did not see any dust on mine).
3. Getting ready to do the plugs (first time for this car) going with the NGK TR6...pointer???
4. Mail Order tunes, such as PCMFORLESS, any luck with a good tune for Supercharged cars. Nothing wild, I guesss safe side rich?
Thanks in advance.
Rich

1. You can simply rearrange the existing PD plumbing and eliminate the flex hose which is pure garbage. This must be done ASAP before it wears a slit or comes into contact with something on the road. I had a custom skidplate built for mine before I went all solid due to the stupid flex hose hanging so close to the ground. You can use a large K&N RE-0920 (if I didn't transpose a number ..it might be 9020 but I think it's 0920, ask me if you need it) filter to add boost and enhance intake sound, etc. You will need to order an extra silicone sleeve from PD or other to allow for using all solid tubing. Just mess around with the existing solid tubing you have a bit and you'll figure it out, if you need pics of mine installed I could get that for you later on (right now it's disassembled in my garage floor).

2. Not aware of an aftermarket spring loaded tensioner, probably not worth the effort at your boost level. You shouldn't have belt slip problems at 4.5# unless it's just too loose or worn out.

3. I think most have had pretty good luck with that plug, however they are known to be a little prone to opening up (gap opens up over time). Most prefer Autolite 104's gapped at .032, you are one heat range cooler than stock with the 104 (same for TR6 I believe) and they are less prone to gap opening up. The 104's are cheap and work great and don't have that silly tendency to come loose at the post that goes into the wire. I'm using 106's right now (stock heat range) but I'm at 9.5:1 compression on a tight quench so they work fine.

4. I'm not convinced a mail order tune would be worth it at that boost level, really stock tuning isn't so far off at 4.5#....I'd be a little nervous about the stock timing at high rpm's but it might be just fine. PCM for Less has a great rep in here though and if you don't want to fool with it much it would a reasonable way to have it tuned and small investment of money and time. Stock fuel is probably just fine for 4.5# but I would prefer some timing being removed up high to be safe, you could do that with an electronic boost-proportional timing retard and keep stock tuning (it retards timing separately from the PCM). I prefer the MSD6BTM setup, better track record than the Crane TRC-2 or TR-6 and ultimately worked better for me (have used the TRC2 with the Crane ignition and currently using the MSD6BTM). If all you plan to use is the 4.5# though I think I'd invest in a Scanmaster or Datamaster scanning software and first check to see if there's any knock retard (or borrow a mechanic's scanner for a pull or two). If there isn't any knock, you'd probably be just fine with the stock tune and even the stock ignition if it works without other problems. However, if you already have a laptop and don't mind to learn LT1 Edit and pay ~300 for the software and a quality cable, you may as well do it and get in there and take out a few degrees of timing in the 4,500+ rpm range in the 100 KPA row. Honestly you could actually lean fuel out in the PE vs RPM table and still be on the rich side at 4.5#, the factory makes the WOT fueling super rich to compensate for abuse and low octane to protect the warranty. To articulate this, even with cam/heads/blower over-pullied to be like an "8# kit", long tube headers, etc ..... my PE vs RPM fueling is actually leaner than stock in several cells and I still run on the rich side according to scans. If you're using the stock cam and don't rev past 6K, stock fuel will likely be enough. I'm positive it's more than enough fuel up to 5,600 and it's probably ok all the way to 6K but I won't swear on that, every engine acts a little different and I have to admit I've never run a 4.5# combo. If I remember right I'm only a little richer than stock from 5,600 to 6,000 ....too tired right now and have to go to bed lol. From 5,200 and down I am actually leaner than stock and it still hits mv's of .945 in those areas (rich, likely ~12.0:1 on a wideband). FWIW I keep a Scanmaster permanently mounted in my middle A/C vent so I always know whether or not I'm getting knock retard. If it's persistent and seems real rather than false (have to test a few different ways) it really needs to be addressed. Even if it's false you want to address it as it's killing power. In case it seems weird that I'm using a timing retard AND LT1 Edit, that's only because initially I used the stock programming. Now I only use the timing retard as an extra safeguard for routine driving. When I need to really roll I zero it out and rely on my already reduced timing table in the PCM.

Feel free to shoot more questions at me, it's fun to give something back.

vin1382

12-01-2005, 10:01 PM

After all the help I've received from many in here it's the least I can do. I'm no expert but just telling you what I've learned and most importantly to research it yourself and try to see a pattern of what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately you're going to get a lot of different opinions and information. Best way to go about it is listen to those who give you actual data you can understand, figure out who the "experts" really are, then you compare their info and will likely find it starts to vary considerably less than the info you'll get from a whole gambit of posters.

There are many things accepted as common knowledge and truth that aren't really true for every application in most cases. Like needing a really broad LSA cam to use with a blower for example. That's not really true if you're using low to moderate boost and really depends on other variables, like how your heads flow on the intake vs the exhaust, what type of headers and exhaust you're using, the size of your throttle body, etc. Usually a 112 LSA (depending on duration and advance of course) cam is going to be plenty of separation for a 6 - 12 PSI blower/mild heads setup and going any wider is just going to cost you some low end if you don't need it. Just an example, I don't apply this knowledge often enough to show you the math on it off the top of my head but I can dig some stuff up that should make sense to you if you'd like it and could e-mail it to you.

If you'd decide to rebuild strong enough for two power adders that's cool but it will cost you if you really want to do it right. Personally I'd rather just use more boost than low boost plus small shot but that's just me. If you'd only use the nitrous once in awhile or only at the track it could be beneficial long term to set it up low boost plus small shot. If you'd rather have the power on tap all the time obviously you'd be better off with simply using more boost. I think that's way cooler myself, and probably less risk to the bottom end when you're at full tilt. I could go on and on but it's all really just pros and cons. I just fear you may be thinking of having a PD pullied at 6 PSI on a mild motor and figure adding say... a 100 shot on top of it would work well, I have my doubts. The quicker reving incurred by the 100 shot would overwhelm a PD's internal belt and/or cause excessive slippage of the external belt. Some use a stronger Kevlar internal belt and still break it without any N2O just from having it pullied up a little bit over 6 PSI. N2O comes on with that "BAM!!" hit and anything over a 50 shot would surely be too much for a PD, especially with an M6 with the quick changes in RPM and loading/unloading. I'm not convinced a 50 shot would truly work well either.

This all comes back to what your ultimate goal is. If you think you want lots of power later on then stay away from the PD. I hate to bash my own blower but figure honesty's the best policy. If you're truly sure you're cool with 450 hp or less then sure ...go for it.

BTW I also want to clarify one of my earlier posts. One of the advantages of going with higher compression and less boost vs lower compression and more boost is better light throttle response and low (LOW) end torque along with better mpg and overall driveability. Tuning will be easier too.

Good points with the potential belt spin while running nitrous on the powerdyne. I didnt even think of that...i was more thinking of the engine..but that would be a signifigant problem as well.

I just dont know what I want yet!! I am going to see how I am liking the ported heads/intake set up when i get that whole thing done this spring. If it feels way too slow, i might jump up an intercooled procharger and absorb its larger cost, and see how that does...but if i think the power level is pretty good with the h/c/i setup, then maybe ill just go with a cheap, used 4.5# powerdyne add 50 rwhp or so and call it a day.

I wish I knew some people in this area that had cars with the power levels i want to 'sample'...this way i knew what i wanted. The only experience i had with a high powered car was a friend who had a 620 rwhp cobra..and that thing scared the **** out of me. i definately will not be going that fast.

I still have plenty of time to work out what i want though...I wont be going FI at least until next winter...but im definatly going FI at some point. ;)

canbaufo

12-03-2005, 03:45 PM

vin1382

12-04-2005, 01:10 AM

It's good that you have plenty of time. The more time you spend learning about it the better. You'll have fun progressing through different power levels going with H/C first and so on as well. Knowing what I know now, if I were you I'd go H/C first like you're doing. Then I'd go with a nice used Vortech S-Trim since it could support modest power increases or a rather large increase. You could progress in stages with it, starting out with 6 PSI non intercooled on the stock bottom end, then say 9 PSI non intercooled on a built bottom, then say 12 PSI aftercooled .....by then you'd be well into your max power goal (since you said 600+ rwhp seemed like too much for you). I prefer Vortech because they have the spring loaded tensioner, better quality ductwork, better durability and customer service reputation than ATI, etc. Although I hear ATI has improved significantly in recent years. To decide on the PD you'll just have to see how you like the H/C and use it for awhile like that ...trying to determine if another 50 - 100 HP would be a sufficient permanent maximum increase for you.

Also, what about noise? Do you like it or not? That could be a big factor too. I'm pretty sure PD's the quietest and the V2 Vortech is the second quietest. I've heard both in person and both are very very quiet. Not sure about ATI, usually really loud from what I hear. Personally I wish my PD made a little more noise ....all I can hear is a faint impellor whine that is like a jet way off in the distance and it's only around 1,100 - 1,700 rpm when shifting or decelerating. Otherwise it's practically non existent. Then you have V1 S-Trims and most of the ATI models ....just too loud for my taste, would get old for me. I wonder if there's a blower somewhere in between in noise level? Anyone? ....that would be cool.

Hmm..used vortech..do you know what prices are for that? That I would consider, as well as an ATI, if i determine that ~360 rwhp is no where near where i want to be. But then again, I think if i started to get addicted to the power and the vortech/ati potential, I might end up in a trap...and spend thousands and thousands of $$ upgrading my car as the power kept going up..because in my eyes i'll always want something more. So that would be another reason for me to go powerdyne..it would be too much of a PIA for me to want to swap out for another charger and more potential...and therefore, i'd save myself some troubles with money and car in the future. For my own practicality, it would probably be better to keep it as simple as possible...but who knows..maybe in a year ill be making alot more $$.

Noise is good :D. I can live without a blower whine (I am cammed now, and it sure sounds good as it is), but i'd like to have 'some' whine/whistle. I've heard the ati's are pretty damn loud. I am not sure how loud is too loud, as i've not heard anything like that in person...but my car now is pretty loud, and it doesnt bother me a bit(its actually a bit louder now then it was in my soundclip below..as i added a high flow cat and that did make it nicer sounding). a nice lopy whistling noise would certainly kick ass.

2cub49

12-04-2005, 10:12 AM

there's a pic of my intake tube made from Home Depot plumbing fittings.
I shortened it up recently to accomodate a larger filter
but you get the idea.
You also have to cut the air dam that channels air up into the cooling system.
As to the fit off the compressor to the intake elbow, I cut the top hose so the parts at the head would fit tightly together, then added a plumbing hose over the cut top hose as it is now too short. It's a plumbing part also from Home Depot that cost about 7.00 or so.
You can see it in the pic of the underhood.
Comes with a metal sleeve too.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v142/2cub49/

BadgeZ28

12-04-2005, 12:13 PM

2cub49, what is the pump on the driver's side inner fender well? It has a blue hose running over the core support. Thanks

canbaufo

12-04-2005, 01:52 PM

Hmm..used vortech..do you know what prices are for that? That I would consider, as well as an ATI, if i determine that ~360 rwhp is no where near where i want to be. But then again, I think if i started to get addicted to the power and the vortech/ati potential, I might end up in a trap...and spend thousands and thousands of $$ upgrading my car as the power kept going up..because in my eyes i'll always want something more. So that would be another reason for me to go powerdyne..it would be too much of a PIA for me to want to swap out for another charger and more potential...and therefore, i'd save myself some troubles with money and car in the future. For my own practicality, it would probably be better to keep it as simple as possible...but who knows..maybe in a year ill be making alot more $$.

Noise is good :D. I can live without a blower whine (I am cammed now, and it sure sounds good as it is), but i'd like to have 'some' whine/whistle. I've heard the ati's are pretty damn loud. I am not sure how loud is too loud, as i've not heard anything like that in person...but my car now is pretty loud, and it doesnt bother me a bit(its actually a bit louder now then it was in my soundclip below..as i added a high flow cat and that did make it nicer sounding). a nice lopy whistling noise would certainly kick ass.

Expect to pay ~2K for a good complete used S-Trim kit, another ~500-1,000 for an Aftercooler and it will need a better tank and pump to work really well. NO WAY I'd ever buy a new kit again, just way too much $ imo. Find someone on here who others can vouch for who has plenty of post counts and be careful with handling the transaction of course. Blowers can be rebuilt pretty cheaply and completing a kit can also be inexpensive if you can make use of hardware stores. Most head units hold up pretty well (esp Vortech) and the odds of breaking your engine are greater than breaking the blower. To me all of this is reason enough to not buy new unless you just want the latest most cutting edge stuff and assurance of a "complete" kit (IMO there is no truly "complete" blower kit though).

As far as solid tubing for the PD, I think you're better off just using the existing tubing and buying an extra silicone sleeve. It looks cleaner and the way mine's done it's protected a lot better from the road and rain.... no need to cut anything. I even have a fabbed up skidplate that covers the tubing. The MAF and large filter are both tucked in the box in the inner fender well and the ductwork is held up by a solid metal hanger. I'll get pics later when it's back together if anyone needs them.

2cub49

12-04-2005, 02:32 PM

That pump is for my water/metanol injection.
The underhood is so cramped I put it there
with electrical ties. Seems to fit well there.
I have alkycontrol controllers but haven't actually used the system yet.
Car ran good without it with Ion's tune.
I'll hook it up this spring as I'm putting in a blower cam and ported intake with a 58mm TB and a more aggressive tune.
Sending the tranny out for a CPT rebuild and 2800 stall convertor while the car's down for the winter so she'll be a terror come spring.

IROCARMY

03-04-2006, 08:51 AM

Well finally made it to the dyno.
Car Spec:
1997 Z28 1LE/M6
Powerdyne #4.5/FMU/No known tuning
1.6RR
BBK Shorties, Aftermarket Y pipe, FI FLOW Cats, Borla(no Plate)
Electric Water Pump(CSI)
NGK TR-6, Autozone wires
SPEC 3< Alum Fly Wheel
10 bolt, 3:42(stock)

I don't have the boost gauge on yet, but it looks to be #4.5 pulley...stock hoses.
This was a DYNOJET, 50 degree weather, car at operating temp (185)

I was shocked at the results
409RWHP/434RWTQ
Yes, I was so shocked that I had them run it again and it was +-5 HP/TQ on the second run.
Another combination of all the wrong parts(Powerdyne, BBK)
I will post the dyno sheet soon.

canbaufo

03-04-2006, 01:53 PM

Considering your old #'s looked a bit high for your combination, I'd say your dyno reads a bit high. Looks like you're getting a very good increase for a mere 4.5# kit though, a little atypical maybe. When you put a correction factor in for that 50* temp that will bring it down significantly but that's still a good set of #'s. For comparison's sake back when mine was stock with 1.6 RR's, LT headers, PD over-pullied to make 7.5# boost ....on a cool day like yours (I think it was about 55 - 60) I believe it made nearly 400 rwhp but when corrected it was 384 ...the torque was 402 after correction factor. This was on a really rich, conservative tune so there was more in it but I opted to keep it safe.

Anyway, I think your car is a bit of a freak regardless :D

hulettsz28

03-06-2006, 11:01 AM

Not very much. 100rwhp from 6 psi with that s/c? I would like to see it to believe it. Non intercooled, self contained which heats up to not-good-for-making-hp temperatures, they are ok. But if you were to look at all other s/c manufacturers, it is the worst for a LT1. JMHO.

94LT1_89TTA

03-06-2006, 11:25 AM

Well not exactly. Self contained means the unit itself is not pre-heated to the 190 degree oil temp that the oiled units are. Couple that with a resonably efficient impeller design, and you have a supercharger that does not need intercooling as long as it's operated within its intended impeller speed range.

My TTS datamaster logs have the IAT at 160 degrees by the end of the quarter mile (124 mph) on an 80 degree day. No knock, pump gas, and if it does fail the blower, no metal debris in the oil pan to destroy the motor either. Just another point of view I suppose.

canbaufo

03-06-2006, 03:47 PM

Did you notice you went up by exactly 97 in both HP and TQ? Your old dyno numbers, were they corrected? It would make sense to me that maybe your old ones were, once you factor in correction on these new ones they'll be right around 7-8 less I think (don't know the factor). That's still about 20 rwhp per lb of boost though.

IROCARMY

03-06-2006, 11:16 PM

This was my first dyno run ever. I bought the car with most of the mods done. However, it wasn't til this point that I have been able to achieve max power.
I had a header gasket leak.
Recent plug and wire change, old plugs were shot and I was down atleat 40hp.
Also my MAF was on backwards..sshhhh don't tell anyone.
I already burned one wire and had a pulley cut one. I think I finally have them secured. OTVC one day

I really like to see the PD intake mod (pics)(non-PVC), I still have the tube-o-holes
I like the PD, first it came with the car. Second it makes good power. I like the fact there isn't a hole drilled in the pan or some of the excessive noise found with other chargers(I also like the whine).

I understand that not all dynos are super accurate, but I'm happy that it did 400hp...so don't bust my bubble, let me enjoy my high.
I will scan the sheet soon.. looks like peak HP was at 5200 rpm. TQ was over 400TQ from 3200rpm-5200rpm

Actually I just took pic of the dyno sheet, I see I need an outside URL to post???

canbaufo

03-07-2006, 12:29 AM

No one's trying to bust your bubble, but your numbers are very high for what you have. That's better than having things the other way around, so enjoy it. Worst case scenario the dyno reads very high and you're really at ~370 rwhp or something but that's unlikely, I'd say you really just have a bit of a freak, whether it really makes 400+ or not....it's doing something right just to get you in that range. You're probably making at least an honest 395 no matter what, pretty darn good.

Concerning flex tubing deletion; all you have to do is rearrange your existing tubing to eliminate the flex garbage. You will need to buy an extra silicone connector to do this. I can take pics of my setup when I get it back together if you'd like to see how to arrange it.

IROCARMY

03-07-2006, 08:43 AM

canbaufo

03-07-2006, 11:14 AM

:cool: I'm sure it might be lower after some corrections. When you get everything together, snap a picture for me.
The next test for the car will be at the strip, I think the best my buddy did with a similiar combo was around 12.3X in the 1/4.
However, I 'm not the best with the M6 and I really don't want to break anything (10 bolt).
The this summer I'm taking the car to Germany for 3 years, yes no speed limit

Ohhh that would be soooo fun. Just don't overdo it. Have you ever seen pics from high speed autobahn wrecks? We're talking complete destruction here. Concerning the 10-bolt, I have the same fears. I have a support girdle on mine and a newer torsen posi, along with newer 3.73 GM gears, so far it's holding together but I don't launch on slicks, just Nitto DR's ...I don't race much at all either. For fun street driving I only get on it hard from a roll. To save your 10-bolt at the strip, take the slack out of the drivetrain by clutching it with the brake held once you're staged. Since you can't drag the clutch the whole time you're sitting there (without line lock or e-brake applied anyway, but to do that would be too much to think about for launching) it can't take up all of the slack like an auto but it's better than nothing.....it'll take some up and give part of it back when you depress the clutch again prior to launching, but not all of it will be put back ...make any sense? I think these techniques and the girdle may have helped mine live through this stuff. Regardless though it's usually the ring and pinion that break on the 10-bolt, not a whole lot you can do about it .....a 12-bolt is in my future I'm sure.