Vortech Aftercooler Opinions

BE forwarned, tons of rambling and ?'s ahead...
Now that I have the aftercooler installed I am a little worried I may have been a little hasty in buying it. I can't really see the advantage it has in cooling the intake charge. Think about it, it is circulating water/coolant that is cooled with a small rad at the front of the car. Basically the same area that the filter and intake is currently located. Since the coolant can't get any cooler than the intake air how is it possible for the aftercooler to really have any affect given the inherent loss in the aftercooler fins? Is it simply that the air after the supercharger is so much warmer that any cooling in the aftercooler is better than none at all. Unfortunately, I don't have "before" dyno numbers to compare the "after" with. Anybody, have any before and after numbers? Vortech claims 30-40hp gains on the aftercooler which seems like a lot.
I have been eyeing the Ice Bath version that Vortech offers, but of course it is probably better suited to the drag-strip.

Hellions, I think the part you're missing is that compressors heat the air alot. A typical 6 psi Vortech will have discharge temps of around 170 deg F on a warm day. Up it to 12 psi and the discharge temp jumps to 230 deg F. Right now, I'm running 20 psi and my air temp is over 300 deg F!

The water in the exchanger cools and condenses this hot boosted air.

I was running a non-aftercooled Vortech S Trim with 10 psi of boost and would regularly see 160F intake temps driving in traffic using my Scanmaster. After adding the Vortech aftercooler I now see 120F temps in the same traffic. At the 1/4 mile track I only see a 10F rise in temp from the starting line to finish line.

Thanks for the replies guys, that's exactly what I was looking for.

It seems to work really well, but I do not have any scientific evidence. The only thing I do not like about it is the aftercooler location, right above the valve cover and headers, it probably gets heat soaked there. I thought about putting it underneath the battery on the passenger side, but never got around to doing it. It may be possible to relocate it somewhere else, if you can find room. This, of course, will involve some custom pipe work too.

In your sig you say your running 10 lbs of boost. How long have you been running at that level. The reason I ask is I want to go to 8-10 lbs, but everybody says the stock LT1 won't take it for long.
By the way, you're right about the location of the aftercooler. It's a PITA for any work on the driver side of the engine bay.

It seems to work really well, but I do not have any scientific evidence. The only thing I do not like about it is the aftercooler location, right above the valve cover and headers, it probably gets heat soaked there. I thought about putting it underneath the battery on the passenger side, but never got around to doing it. It may be possible to relocate it somewhere else, if you can find room. This, of course, will involve some custom pipe work too.

Locating it above the headers does mean extra heat, but in exchange they shorten the piping. The Vortech kit comes with a thermal blanket that you should use on the cooler. Having coated headers will help cut down temps as well.

The cooler will still absorb heat, but dont forget its also circulating water through there at a pretty quick pace, espicially if you upgrade from the stock vortech pump. FWIW I stuck my custom air/water up there as well and then made a heat shield that sits beneath it to seperate it from the headers.

Edit(I need to find a better place to stick images)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid193/p15078c1472c457c0885a22f571579cd6/f199a45b.jpg

I would not run more than 7-8 pounds on a stock engine. I originally had an ati P600B running with a 9 pound pulley for a few years. It ran great, but the motor eventually died with 3 broken pistons...ring lands.

In most applications, a blower or nitrous requires forged pistons. The problem with LT1 pistons is that the static compression ratio is way too high for a blower. You could try hypereutectics with a lower compression ratio, but if you go thru the hassle of changing out the pistons, forged is the only way to go. The other problem is the stock ring gaps are too small for big power gains.

Regarding the aftercooler, I run the stock thermal wrap along with a homemade heatshield too. But I still think having the aftercooler away from the headers would be beneficial, even with the longer piping. This would also make it easier to get to stuff. I think the main problem I had trying to do this was how the vortech supercharger outlet is designed to be directed towards the top. The blower unit would have to be rotated.

There are some things you can do to improve the effeciency of this system.

1. Larger tank
2. Better heat blanket
3. Make SURE you set it up like a cross flow heat exhanger.. (cold water in, on the aftercoolers outlet side and hotwater coming out on the aftercoolers inlet side)
4. run the hotwater out from the aftercooler to your heat exhanger in front of the car then back to the tank. The way vortech has you set it up you can potentially be warming up cool fluid in your tank before sending it to the aftercooler.
5. do yourself a favor and put the pump in a area where it will self prime.

There are some things you can do to improve the effeciency of this system.

1. Larger tank
2. Better heat blanket
3. Make SURE you set it up like a cross flow heat exhanger.. (cold water in, on the aftercoolers outlet side and hotwater coming out on the aftercoolers inlet side)
4. run the hotwater out from the aftercooler to your heat exhanger in front of the car then back to the tank. The way vortech has you set it up you can potentially be warming up cool fluid in your tank before sending it to the aftercooler.
5. do yourself a favor and put the pump in a area where it will self prime.
1. Check
2. Check
3. Is this simply to "scrub" as much additional heat as possible out of the airstream?
4. If the heat exchanger is the last thing before the aftercooler wouldn't the coolant be as cool as possible? Of course the coolant temp would probably vary a lot based on conditions. Dumping to the tank then circulating to the aftercooler would seem to raise the coolant temp to the aftercooler. In this setup the aftercooler would see a more consistant temp. Opinions?
5. Check

Thanks,
Hellions

4. If the heat exchanger is the last thing before the aftercooler wouldn't the coolant be as cool as possible? Of course the coolant temp would probably vary a lot based on conditions. Dumping to the tank then circulating to the aftercooler would seem to raise the coolant temp to the aftercooler. In this setup the aftercooler would see a more consistant temp. Opinions?


I agree with Alvin. The order should be:

1. reservoir
2. pump
3. aftercooler
4. heat exchanger
5. back to reservoir

That's not how Vortech says to do it.

Yep, no since in warming up the ice water you just put in the tank BEFORE it gets to the aftercooler.

go to heat exhanger first... i'm surpized they got the cross flow part right.

So basically it can potentially cool below the temperature it is when coming out of the radiator if it has the opportunity to sit in the reservoir and pump area for a bit. Am I basciallly getting this?

As far as the cross flow stuff ...how else could you do it and why would you do it some other way? Why don't manufacturers have enough sense to make sure their equipment is set up to work the most efficient way possible? You've already done the R&D on it ....at least give the consumer instructions on the best way to set it up! By the time you buy a new tank, a higher flow pump, rearrange it to provide better cooling, etc ....you may as well had fabbed the damn thing up from scratch. Just had to rant.

After I researched it some I decided I would someday go the Vortech route, partly because of the better intercooling air to water to air can provide .....but now that I know it's not set up so well, maybe an air to air setup would be more practical.

So basically it can potentially cool below the temperature it is when coming out of the radiator if it has the opportunity to sit in the reservoir and pump area for a bit. Am I basciallly getting this?

When are you ever racing where ambient is cooler than a tank of ice water? The way they have it setup your letting outside heat in before you send it to the aftercooler. You've heard of pre-heating steam in powerplants.. well its the same idea just the otherway around.



As far as the cross flow stuff ...how else could you do it and why would you do it some other way? Why don't manufacturers have enough sense to make sure their equipment is set up to work the most efficient way possible? You've already done the R&D on it ....at least give the consumer instructions on the best way to set it up! By the time you buy a new tank, a higher flow pump, rearrange it to provide better cooling, etc ....you may as well had fabbed the damn thing up from scratch. Just had to rant.
.

Just draw a X/Y Label X inlet/outlet and Y temperature and plot what happens when you set it up either way. A cross flow will have more area under the curve.. or more heat transfer going on.

When are you ever racing where ambient is cooler than a tank of ice water? The way they have it setup your letting outside heat in before you send it to the aftercooler. You've heard of pre-heating steam in powerplants.. well its the same idea just the otherway around.


Just draw a X/Y Label X inlet/outlet and Y temperature and plot what happens when you set it up either way. A cross flow will have more area under the curve.. or more heat transfer going on.

No, that's not what I meant. I was questioning why your suggested order is better than having the coolant go from the heat exchanger to the aftercooler. I wasn't assuming the use of ice, I was assuming no ice. I'm just asking, is the reason your order is better than having it go from the radiator straight to the aftercooler that the temperature is going to drop a bit while it sits in the reservoir and pump (in other words it will get cooler there than it would be coming straight out of the radiator).

All I was saying is how else could you do it other than cross flow anyway, it needs to cover all area possible to be effective right? Wait a minute, I see what you mean ....someone nailed it for me when they said "is this to "scrub" as much heat as possible out"? Actually that makes sense, you're removing maximum heat by going the opposite direction. As for the other part, it seems like Vortechs instructions work better for ice, and yours work better for no ice. I'm probably just not understanding it right. Seems like you'd want to go straight to the aftercooler from the heat exchanger if you're .....wait a minute, you mean ice in the tank, not ice in the heat exchanger .........never mind! I finally get it!!

Sorry, my questions haven't made any sense because I'm just trying to visualize all of this, I've never seen it in person.

What are they thinking? (Vortech)

Its ok,

The way vortech has it set up with the tank is as a heat storing device.. The tank itself is very adiabatic

Its ok,

The way vortech has it set up with the tank is as a heat storing device.. The tank itself is very adiabatic

I get it now, see my edit above. Thanks. Yeah, even without icewater the water in the tank is sometimes going to be cooler than the water in the heat exchanger doing it your way. Doing it their way the hot water gets dumped into the reservoir, which just seems dumb.

I dont know how the design at Vortech made it through checks myself - after all, when is a heat exchanger usually more efficient? The hotter the water in the exchanger, the better (usually, I'm sure there's a point where efficiency drops off depending on the fluid and exchanger design).

There really isnt much totally wrong with the intercooler itself in Vortech's setup - but their coolant plumbing route isnt ideal.

I had ran it the way vortech shows, except the pump was mounted right below the tank so it has some inlet head. Vortech diagram shows the pump should be between the heat exchanger and the aftercooler, whereas I put it between the tank and the heat exchanger, so I'm pushing water into the heat exchanger. Never had any problems, but I may reroute the hoses like you guys say 'cause the blower is going back on this weekend. Some testing and data would be nice.