lets build something to kill the z06, viper, shelby, & most anything else!

what would it take for us to feel good about pulling up next to these guys at a redlight? i think we could do it cheaper and better than they have.

with my two t-70's ide feel pretty damn good about pulling up next to anything at a redlgiht

All it takes is money....

Forged rotating assembly, ported heads, specific cam, big blower or turbo, nice fuel system, built trans (auto or M6), 12-bolt or 9" rear, some suspension parts, and a good dyno tune with the boost tickling the knock threshold of pump gas (or just pump some race gas in there and crank the boost way up).

Sounds easy, but it sure ain't cheap to many (or most) people out there.

You can have Quality, Cheap, or Fast.... pick two.

i've read the posts of rskrause when he had a 385c.i. w/13lbs. of boost. if i copied that setup, would that do the job?

Forged 383cid with D1SC ATI procharger will be street friendly and KILLER!

i've read the posts of rskrause when he had a 385c.i. w/13lbs. of boost. if i copied that setup, would that do the job?

Sure would.

Rich

what would be the cost & power difference in heads. stock, ported stock, trick flows, ported trick flows, afr's, & ported afr's? i'm looking at building a stroked lt1/m6 with a d1, i already have hooker lt's with a custom y-pipe that has dual cutouts going into a borla catback.

I think I might have something that'll work. ;)

http://www.camarohighway.com/MFBA/2005/FLP-0402/IMG_0363.jpg

I think I might have something that'll work. ;)

http://www.camarohighway.com/MFBA/2005/FLP-0402/IMG_0363.jpg
now thats purty bird:bow:

now thats purty bird:bow:

Thanks! ;)

what kind of by pass valve is that?

what kind of by pass valve is that?
ProCharger.
http://www.camarohighway.com/MFBA/2005/FLP-0402/IMG_0364.jpg

what about the head question that i had?

what about the head question that i had?

I still used my LT1 heads and had them heavily worked. I can't justify the cost of LT4 heads for the slight gain that I would see. I can't justify the cost of AFR heads not to mention I would not be able to use my FLP headers with AFR heads as plug access would be terrible.

is anyone getting 600rwhp from ported stock heads? would that be possible with a 383 or a 396 with a D1? or would i have to have ported AFR's?

is anyone getting 600rwhp from ported stock heads? would that be possible with a 383 or a 396 with a D1? or would i have to have ported AFR's?

770 rwhp and 682 rwtq using ported LT1 heads, 388, and an F1 22psi. :)

WOW! thats alot of power. can you drive your car on the street much?

WOW! thats alot of power. can you drive your car on the street much?

Yep... sure can. I still have the a/c, power steering, and some bumps. It's a street car... not a race car. ;) It idles beautifully... sounds like my cat when I rub his belly.... purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrr. :D

770 rwhp and 682 rwtq using ported LT1 heads, 388, and an F1 22psi. :)

I plan on cracking 650rwhp or more on a D1SC in my 396 w/ LT1 heads. Axle I'll let you know how it turns out in May!

Bad you really got me tempted in going w/ a F1! I feel you on the heads as well and giving up the FLP's. I like my FLP's too much as well. :D

I plan on cracking 650rwhp or more on a D1SC in my 396 w/ LT1 heads. Axle I'll let you know how it turns out in May!

Bad you really got me tempted in going w/ a F1! I feel you on the heads as well and giving up the FLP's. I like my FLP's too much as well. :D

600 to 650 rwhp should be a realistic number with your planned combination. Trust me when I say that my old set up (355, P600B with 12 psi, 500 rwhp) was more than enough. What I have now is way too much... it really is.

Those FLP headers on my car are the prototypes as my car was used as the the "guinea pig" for the FLP long tube headers.

We always have to factor in what we gain for the dollars spent. Is it worth the expense of the LT4 heads or the AFR heads to gain what... 20 hp? 30 hp? Granted... I spent WAY too much on my car with this most recent project, but I had to draw the line somewhere... and it was the heads. The LT1 heads work just fine in my opinion. ;)

What's it run?

what would it take for us to feel good about pulling up next to these guys at a redlight? i think we could do it cheaper and better than they have.
well, if you have an ls1....a cam and a 6 psi blower will do more than enough. pretty easy to answer that one. now if you want to build something that will be a real monster, than thats the thread i want to read about.

What's it run?

I went to the track one time this year. It went 10.90 at 130 mph with a 1.7 60 foot time (my old combo with less suspension mods got me a 1.49). That was my second pass of the day (the first pass was a granny run to get a feel for the car). That 10.90 pass was made at 68% throttle according to my data log from my FAST system. Needless to say, when I picked up my time slip, they said to me, "Uh, yeah... you gotta see the guys in tech because you don't have a roll bar." I never went back to the track after that. I was happy with the results, but needless to say, I GOTTA PUT MY FOOT TO THE FLOOR!!! I know that the car has the power and suspension to run in the 9s. My brain needs to tell my foot to mash the gas pedal. I think the reason I don't is because the few times that I did go 100% throttle on the street, I scared myself so bad that when I got out of the car, my hands were shaking. I just have to get past that fear. Anyone wanna drive this thing? ;) Maybe if I install a roll bar in the car, that'll help me get past 68% throttle. A good friend of mine, Dan Bills of FLP (also the person that tunes my car) hit the wall after a 7.24 @ 202.76 mph run in his Outlaw Mustang (his first pass with the new engine combo that would have run high 6s with more boost and a harder launch). If it wasn't for the skill of his chassis builder, he wouldn't be here today. :bow: Needless to say, his chassis builder will build my roll bar. ;)

Saftey always comes first, guys!!!

Before
http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/1.jpg

http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/2.jpg

After
http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/3.jpg

http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/4.jpg

http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/6.jpg

http://www.racingsouthwest.com/hosted/jolietweb2/7.jpg

Man talk about wanting to cry after that happens to your car!:( I am building a 900rwhp capable Z28 with a turbo and I am VERY unsure about how it will behave on the street with my 35 series tires!!!!! 18's arent very good for anything besides looks. So is this thing covered by any type of insurance or is he out a race car??

Man talk about wanting to cry after that happens to your car!:( I am building a 900rwhp capable Z28 with a turbo and I am VERY unsure about how it will behave on the street with my 35 series tires!!!!! 18's arent very good for anything besides looks. So is this thing covered by any type of insurance or is he out a race car??

Insurance is $3500 a month. He didn't have it, but the track was at fault as they left the 1st return gate open. He skimmed the wall, but when it hit the opening (the open gate)... that's what destroyed the car. There would have been some damage needless to say if the gate was closed, but the car would have been more than likely saved. I was there... I was terrbile to see... especially when the driver is a good friend. He was ok... and I told him afterwards, "I'm glad that you are ok... I mean... who else could tune my car if you weren't around anymore? ;)

I guess it all depends on which Z06 you're pulling up next to. :D But I think a twin turbo or an ATI/Vortech supercharger would be enough to give any Z06 a run for it's money.

my car made 640ish rwhp on 190cc slightly worked heads which in my opinion are junk i should of kept the stockers.
On a stock 10 bolt, 3.23 gears and a slipping clutch car went see sig
1/4 mile 10.66@134mph 4th gear clutch was slipping pretty bad i should of been 138mph+ on that run
that set up was def good for a high 9:D , but i want to go little faster:p

I may be getting another car soon. 01 Cobra is what Im going to shoot for, If I got an 03 I would be replacing just about everything...;)

TT 4V mod cars kick ass :)

Anyone wanna drive this thing? ;)

I'll volunteer :)


As far as Dans car, it's amazing how much even the chassis got torn apart. A testiment to how fast something bad can happen at that speed.

well, if you have an ls1....a cam and a 6 psi blower will do more than enough. pretty easy to answer that one. now if you want to build something that will be a real monster, than thats the thread i want to read about.

A new ZO6 will eat up an LS1 at 6psi...it may handle some other cars ok like stock 03 cobras, but new ZO6's/vipers/worked 03+ cobras will handle 6psi LS1.

If you have a built motor and 10psi of boost, then that should be a good start...stock ported heads or otherwise.

My combo is still in the works:

383ci LT1
AFR210's
Homemade T76 turbo kit

94z (its alive)
383,D1,6spd(not for long),AFR 190cc ported heads
Joe O Top secret cam
Accel Gen7+ DFI
1/8th 6.9@109.1mph with a stock 10 bolt 1.8 60ft :eek: :eek:

....and that's with an M6, scary

94z (its alive)
383,D1,6spd(not for long),AFR 190cc ported heads
Joe O Top secret cam
Accel Gen7+ DFI
1/8th 6.9@109.1mph with a stock 10 bolt 1.8 60ft :eek: :eek:

....and that's with an M6, scary

Did Lloyd port the AFR's?

Did Lloyd port the AFR's?
no A local machine shop did (advanced valve) nothing fancy on afrs they flowed 278@500
New setup is in the works as we speak YSI and Chris Sykoras Custom Bracket, methanol injection(intercooler substitute) should see about 28#s
Hopfully i wont sent these afrs through the hood come march;)

94z (its alive)
383,D1,6spd(not for long),AFR 190cc ported heads
Joe O Top secret cam
Accel Gen7+ DFI
1/8th 6.9@109.1mph with a stock 10 bolt 1.8 60ft :eek: :eek:

....and that's with an M6, scary

How much psi ?

How much psi ?
17#s

A new ZO6 will eat up an LS1 at 6psi...it may handle some other cars ok like stock 03 cobras, but new ZO6's/vipers/worked 03+ cobras will handle 6psi LS1.

If you have a built motor and 10psi of boost, then that should be a good start...stock ported heads or otherwise.

My combo is still in the works:

383ci LT1
AFR210's
Homemade T76 turbo kit

I would think it would depend largely on the blower, and on the cam selected.

17#s

Normal times then :) Nice setup!

A new ZO6 will eat up an LS1 at 6psi...it may handle some other cars ok like stock 03 cobras, but new ZO6's/vipers/worked 03+ cobras will handle 6psi LS1.

If you have a built motor and 10psi of boost, then that should be a good start...stock ported heads or otherwise.

My combo is still in the works:

383ci LT1
AFR210's
Homemade T76 turbo kit

My combo is the same as yours. The only difference I choosed 240/246 cam without blower (because of budget issue). I bought T56 Viper Tranny (swapping from A4) with complete highest quiality forged long block with 210cc AFRs. And there is no more money left for D1SC ATI Charger :) In close future I will definitely get it.
For now can I eat new Z06 ? No? MAybe with 100shot wet juice?

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet or not, the new Z06 is very light compared to our F-bodies. It's a little over 3000 pounds. We need a lot more than 500 horsepower to keep up with it due to the weight issue. At least 600 horse would do it? We also need better traction with the increased horsepower.

I raced a nitroused 'vette a few years back and got my ass kicked just because of no traction, just spun the tires, it was on a cold day too.

what about these prices?

$2895 for an internally balanced rotating assembly that consists of
lunati sledgehammer 3.75 crank
lunati pro-mod 5.7 rods
off the shelf JE blower pistons (31cc) with pins & file fit rings
clevite 2 bearings
plus $500 for machine work & $750 for final assembly

or $3515 for an internally balanced rotating assembly that consists of
callies dragonslayer 3.875 crank
lunati pro-mod rods 5.85
custom JE pistons with pins & file fit rings
clevite 2 bearings
plus $500 for machine work & $750 for final assembly

are these bad, decent, or good prices?

I would think it would depend largely on the blower, and on the cam selected.

It will take ~490-500rwhp for an fbody to run with a 450rwhp ZO6...based on that thinking, I would think 6psi isnt going to get an LS1 that much power...more like 430-450rwhp...

My combo is the same as yours. The only difference I choosed 240/246 cam without blower (because of budget issue). I bought T56 Viper Tranny (swapping from A4) with complete highest quiality forged long block with 210cc AFRs. And there is no more money left for D1SC ATI Charger :) In close future I will definitely get it.
For now can I eat new Z06 ? No? MAybe with 100shot wet juice?

100 shot would give you the edge...

what about these prices?

$2895 for an internally balanced rotating assembly that consists of
lunati sledgehammer 3.75 crank
lunati pro-mod 5.7 rods
off the shelf JE blower pistons (31cc) with pins & file fit rings
clevite 2 bearings
plus $500 for machine work & $750 for final assembly

or $3515 for an internally balanced rotating assembly that consists of
callies dragonslayer 3.875 crank
lunati pro-mod rods 5.85
custom JE pistons with pins & file fit rings
clevite 2 bearings
plus $500 for machine work & $750 for final assembly

are these bad, decent, or good prices?

They are good prices, assuming the work is of good quality. The stuff behind door #1 is a better deal.

Rich

It will take ~490-500rwhp for an fbody to run with a 450rwhp ZO6...based on that thinking, I would think 6psi isnt going to get an LS1 that much power...more like 430-450rwhp...

He did say cam and blower, so I was thinking a good blower cam would help the hp numbers out. I would think that the specific blower model would also come into play. The new z06 weighs in at around 3130lbs. The usually 4th gen weighs it at around 3400lbs. I would think that you could at least run with one with a 30whp difference.

He did say cam and blower, so I was thinking a good blower cam would would help the hp numbers out. I would think that the specific blower model would also come into play. The new z06 weighs in at around 3130lbs. The usually 4th gen weighs it at around 3400lbs. I would think that you could at least run with one with a 30whp difference.

Seems reasonable. The new Z06 passed on some suspension upgrades that would have made it a better launcher, in favor of comfort and driveability. I can see that perspective. Even if I lose the race, if I pull you on the big end ....that means I'm packing more HP and speed.....and did so in comfort.

The new z06 weighs in at around 3130lbs. The usually 4th gen weighs it at around 3400lbs. I would think that you could at least run with one with a 30whp difference.

If you put on some aftermarket parts such as subframe connectors, a torque arm, panhard bar, control arms and a different rear end (9 inch or a 12 bolt), there is no way that it'll even come close to 3400 pounds. Add the weight of a supercharger, intercooler, and tubing too... and you have a real heavy weight. You better do more than just put on a blower. Did you guys ever see that video of the Cobra getting spanked by a new Z06? :bow:

http://media.putfile.com/C6-Z06-vs-03-Cobra

If you put on some aftermarket parts such as subframe connectors, a torque arm, panhard bar, control arms and a different rear end (9 inch or a 12 bolt), there is no way that it'll even come close to 3400 pounds. Add the weight of a supercharger, intercooler, and tubing too... and you have a real heavy weight. You better do more than just put on a blower. Did you guys ever see that video of the Cobra getting spanked by a new Z06? :bow:

http://media.putfile.com/C6-Z06-vs-03-Cobra

Duh. Of course a tougher rear end will add weight. Torque arm, panhard bar, and control arms aren't necessarily going to add more weight. Hell, you could probably save a few pounds on better aftermarket control arms. How much do you think the supercharger, intercooler, and tubing is going to add to the car? My guess is that most of that stuff is not going to push the car much over 3500, if at all. If you wanted to get really into it, you could add a lighter aftermarket crossmember to help negate some of the added weight of the rear end. None of this really matters anyway. The question was how much power would it take to wax just about anything you pull up next to at a light on the street, and several people responded with their ideas.

The z06 does weigh less than an F-Body, by several hundred pounds, but I really doubt it would take a 600HP F-Body just to hang with a 505HP z06. Drag coeffiecient of a new z06 is .34, same as the 4th gen F-Body. I don't know what the exact frontal area is of both cars, but just from looking at them it has to be close, so the z06 doesn't have some huge aerodynamic advantage over the F-Body (although I bet the Vette is a hell of a lot more stable at high speeds than the F-Body would be). Would a blown 450rwhp F-Body hang with a z06? Probably not, unless it had some major weight reduction done to it. But a blower and cam F-Body could have some luck running with one, considering that description is so vague that it leaves many possible combinations.

Duh. Of course a tougher rear end will add weight. Torque arm, panhard bar, and control arms aren't necessarily going to add more weight. Hell, you could probably save a few pounds on better aftermarket control arms. How much do you think the supercharger, intercooler, and tubing is going to add to the car? My guess is that most of that stuff is not going to push the car much over 3500, if at all. If you wanted to get really into it, you could add a lighter aftermarket crossmember to help negate some of the added weight of the rear end. None of this really matters anyway. The question was how much power would it take to wax just about anything you pull up next to at a light on the street, and several people responded with their ideas.

The z06 does weigh less than an F-Body, by several hundred pounds, but I really doubt it would take a 600HP F-Body just to hang with a 505HP z06. Drag coeffiecient of a new z06 is .34, same as the 4th gen F-Body. I don't know what the exact frontal area is of both cars, but just from looking at them it has to be close, so the z06 doesn't have some huge aerodynamic advantage over the F-Body (although I bet the Vette is a hell of a lot more stable at high speeds than the F-Body would be). Would a blown 450rwhp F-Body hang with a z06? Probably not, unless it had some major weight reduction done to it. But a blower and cam F-Body could have some luck running with one, considering that description is so vague that it leaves many possible combinations.

The actual question was...
what would it take for us to feel good about pulling up next to these guys at a redlight? i think we could do it cheaper and better than they have.

A Spohn torque arm weighs much more than a stock torque arm. Probably just about any half-way decent torque arm weighs more. You don't think an aftermarket control arm/panhard bar set up weighs more than the stock parts? You gotta be kidding me. My intercooler weighed in at over 40 pounds. Plus all of the tubing added at least 10 pounds. I guarantee that my car weighs well over 3600 pounds without me in it... and that is with the addition of an aftermarket k-member, upper a-arms, and lower a-arms. The QA1 shocks feel heavier to me too (I never weighed them).

Putting a blower and a cam on an LS1 will get you 500 rwhp (considering you have headers, a cat back, and the other bs to go along with it). But if you don't have a suspension or a rear end to handle it, that power is usless. Building a car is far more than the engine. You have to have the modifications around that engine to support that power. The you have the "total package"... or just go buy a Z06 and be done with it. :)

Needless to say, I wouldn't have any problem with most anything on the street. ;)

I know what the original question was, but the subject of what it would take to run down a stock z06 came up, and I don't see why a blower/cam car that was setup well could not at least run with one. You aren't going to need a full suspension setup to run on the street against a z06. They don't come with a drag setup from the factory either, and it is the street, where many a car has problems hooking up. If you want to decimate the hell out of everything you encounter, than you certainly have the right setup for it.

Looking at the math of the whole thing:

Assuming I drove the Z06 in the quarter mile:

ET = [cube root of (3150 lbs + 190 lbs)/505 hp] X 5.825 = 10.93 sec (seems about right)

My Z28,

ET = [cube root of (3700 lbs +190 lbs)/600 hp] X 5.825 = 10.86 sec

600 horse looks just about right! Maybe with a 50 shot for extra insurance?

Of course the Z06 is will smoke most of us on a curvy road couse.

The z06 is not going to run a 10.93 1320 straight out of the showroom. No way is that going to happen. Even with sticky rubber on it, I don't see it doing that on the stock suspension.

Mine's 'vert and has had nothing taken off, lots of stuff added. Weighs in at a portly 3,850. Still, I am not scared of a C6 Z06, though it is an awesome car to be sure.

Rich

The z06 is not going to run a 10.93 1320 straight out of the showroom. No way is that going to happen. Even with sticky rubber on it, I don't see it doing that on the stock suspension.

That formula assumes pretty much the most ideal suspension and traction available, so your correct. I do recall seeing a video of a Z06 running in the high 10's though not too long ago (it had slicks on it), that's why I said it sounded about right.

what should i tell mr. Lloyd Elliot to do to my stock LT1 heads for my blower project?