Fried 2nd 3-4 clutch pack in 1 week!

My 3-4 clutch pack craped out about 2 1/2 months after I put the new cam in my car. I just replaced it with the Alto Red Eagle clutch pack, and just yesterday I lost 3rd and 4th gear again? Why do I keep burning up this clutch pack? Anyone have any Ideas on a good 3-4 clutch pack, and how to keep it alive?

1995 4l60e transmisson.

Thanks

Are you maybe having a fluid pressure problem? Maybe not enough pressure to keep from burning the clutch pack?

I was thinking it could be that, but what would cause that?

Are you air checking the clutches when you assemble it? If you're reinstalling the "load release springs", you'll waste the 3-4's repeadedly. Are the teflon rings on the input shaft in good condition? Is the inside of the pump stator (where the rings ride) in good condition? If the stator bushing fails, the input shaft and stator make contact and trar the teflon seals up. Is the servo check ball in the case leaking? This will usually burn the band up, too, though...

Is the input drum cracked? Forward piston cracked? Lip seals on the 3-4 piston OK?

Lastly...Do yourself a favor and throw the "Red Eagle" clutches away and use a Raybestos "Z-Pack".

This all sounds like an assembly problem, or you missed something that contributed to the 3-4's going the first time.

Frank

Didnt air check them,

Just this last time I threw out thoes springs.

The Kevlar 2-4 band always looks good.

So that Raybestos Z-pac is better than the high performace Alto pack??? :confused: I was told the Alto pack was the best?

You will need to increase the clutch 3-4 clutch count to 8, use Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches, along with kolene steels. Use the .062" snap ring here and the .128" pressure plates as this will allow the use of thicker steels. Add the Trans-Go Performance Main & intermediate/reverse boost valve or the Sonnax boost valve. Add the Trans-Go HD release springs to the overrun & 3-4 apply pistons in the input drum. This will keep the 3-4 clutches from trying to apply on the top end (above 5,000 rpm) of 1st or 2nd gear, and will release the 3-4 clutches much quicker on a 3-2 or 3-1 downshift. Enlarge 3rd gear feed apply to .155", reduce 3-4 clutch clearance to around .030", use the Corvette servo (if you do not already have one), and set the band clearance to a minimum (.060" - .075"). If the Kevlar band is in ok condition, then reuse, but the Borg Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 band is much better. I prefer the Trans-Go "modified" Perfromance Shift here, but this will do. I stopped using the Alto Reds back in 1996, as the BW Hi-E's were superior. These changes should work out very well. Oh, yes make sure you do the air, bushing, & piston check as Frank describes.

If you're reinstalling the "load release springs", you'll waste the 3-4's repeadedly.
This is what I did on mine which works fine:
Grind down the metal retainer the springs fit into. Take about .040 to .060 off the end where the spring extends beyond the retainer. This allows for more compression on the clutch pack.

Check the clearance of the 3-4 clutch pack and these release springs so the release spring retainer does not foul up the pressure plates of the clutch pack. the pack will slip if the retainer binds up the works
Hope that helps. :)

We NEVER reistall the load release springs.

Frank

That sucks man, I actually lostt the 3-4 clutch pack THREE times before i bought a new transmission because I was so sick of the 4l60 crapping out. The most respectable place in my region quoted $1000 to rebuild the trans to handle anything I could throw at it. The first 2 times it was repaired the car was under warranty. I said screw it and went with a th350.

My 3-4 clutch pack craped out about 2 1/2 months after I put the new cam in my car. I just replaced it with the Alto Red Eagle clutch pack, and just yesterday I lost 3rd and 4th gear again? Why do I keep burning up this clutch pack? Anyone have any Ideas on a good 3-4 clutch pack, and how to keep it alive?

1995 4l60e transmisson.

Thanks

Sonnax check valve 77701-076 works well in a L60E tranny for cleaner 3-4 shifts.. That may help your problem. follow instructions.
I got mine from here (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=4L60E-4L65E)

We NEVER reistall the load release springs.

Frank

I was under the impression that installing / or not installing the load release springs depends on the 3-4 clutch pack you are installing and at what RPM you flash to make that shift in the program but I don't doubt that leaving the spring out will work fine.
And thanks for your input Frank. I'm real new at building the 60e's and all info is appreciated. My 3-4 shift has been solid at 6k for ~21k miles now, but I'll be going back into the tranny to try to correct a 1st cold 2-3 shift issue soon, and I'll remove the 3-4 load release springs while I'm in there if I can benefit from it.
BTW: Any idea what is causing my 1st cold 2-3 shift to feel like the tranny's trying to go to 4th gear for about 1/2 second?
Here (http://www.memphisracingscene.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13672) is a thread I started on it with no solution.
Sorry for the off topic question BLUETOPTA. :)

The main reason for taking out the 3-4 load release springs, is when you rebuild the clutch pack and change the clutch count or change pressure plate, and/or steels/clutches to different thicknesses, this can change where the load springs make contact and can interfere with clutch apply. If they are installed correctly (which it sounds like in your case), "do not" remove them, as this will keep the 3-4 clutches from trying to apply on the top end (above 5,000 rpm) of 1st or 2nd gear, and will release the 3-4 clutches much quicker on a 3-2 or 3-1 downshift. The best is to install the Trans-Go HD release springs ($14.97) to the overrun & 3-4 apply pistons in the input drum, while the transmission is apart.

Well the weathers been cold here. Warmed up the other day.... took the car out and again lost 3 and 4th gear. Here is a history of what has happed to my trans:

2001 - paid $1400 for a good rebuild, car had full bolt-ons

2005 - added the cc305 cam and lost 3-4 gear
-then added the alto red eagle 9 clutch pack and removed thoes springs on the sides - fried that :(
-then added the raybestos blue place specials and the sonax boost valve - just fried that :mad:

Now im thinking of adding the Heavy duty release springs and the transmisson centers special alto 3-4 clutch kit.

Think this will hold up?

I see all this talk about repeat burn up , I see a whole bunch of talk about clutch stack up,I think LWillmann has hit the nail on the head, line rise, or cavitation, in a hi rev situation will give you repeat burn up.

Before you can get any clutch pac to hold you first have to have line rise...only after you properly determine this will you get a clutch to hold....then I'd do what Frank or Dana have suggested.

I'm of the opinion the thicker the steels the better the pack, and I agree with Dana that the borg warners are the way to go. Thats what works the best for us....

We don't install the load release springs either, I'm with Frank on that! Instead we use stiffer anti apply ,Hi rev springs...these are the ****s for above 5000 rpm's....good crisp/defined downshifts.

This isn't intended as a slam to anyone, nor is it an attempt to undermine anyone, all I'm suggesting is you start from the basics, these clutch pacs can hold over 700 hp with the proper hyd. pressure operating them, we only see repeat 3-4 burn up with inproper line rise, (low pressure/leaking circuits or hp levels over 900 hp)...hope this helps Dave

I see all this talk about repeat burn up , I see a whole bunch of talk about clutch stack up,I think LWillmann has hit the nail on the head, line rise, or cavitation, in a hi rev situation will give you repeat burn up.

Before you can get any clutch pac to hold you first have to have line rise...only after you properly determine this will you get a clutch to hold....then I'd do what Frank or Dana have suggested.

I'm of the opinion the thicker the steels the better the pack, and I agree with Dana that the borg warners are the way to go. Thats what works the best for us....

We don't install the load release springs either, I'm with Frank on that! Instead we use stiffer anti apply ,Hi rev springs...these are the ****s for above 5000 rpm's....good crisp/defined downshifts.

This isn't intended as a slam to anyone, nor is it an attempt to undermine anyone, all I'm suggesting is you start from the basics, these clutch pacs can hold over 700 hp with the proper hyd. pressure operating them, we only see repeat 3-4 burn up with inproper line rise, (low pressure/leaking circuits or hp levels over 900 hp)...hope this helps Dave

Any load release spring with any 3-4 clutch pack with any clutch count will = burnt 3-4 clutches.

Frank
CPT