Couple of more deaths to announce.....

The Lincoln Aviator quietly passed away over a month ago. So quiet, I didn't even know about it till recently.

From the dead but don't know it file, Ford's most under-rated car, the Lincoln LS, is going to have it's plug pulled after the 2006 model year run.



The LS chassis (the DEW) was created when Ford was on a roll. It was the 1st US made small RWD sedan, beating the CTS to market by over 2 years, and simply mopped the floor with CTS' predecessor, the Catera. It has superior handling, tossable size, and a chassis that was very similar to (but smaller & lighter than) to the dead MN12 Thunderbird & Cougar.

When 1st introduced, the DEW was planned to underpin not only a Jaguar and the reinvented Thunderbird, but also was to serve as the basis for a smaller Lincoln coupe & sedan, the new Mustang, and a Ford sedan for both here and Australia. In the end, only the Jaguar and the new Thunderbird made it to market.

The DEW is a victim of the excesses of Ford's Jac Nasser at the turn of the decade. Ford's restructuring after the Nasser era resulted in widespread gutting of programs. Lincoln saw their budget gutted from billions for an agressive replacement and expansion of their entire lineup, Mustang underwent severe cost cutting to keep prices low, Ford's low cost Volvo based chassis became the favorite for "large" cars, and the DEW (likely the best chassis Ford's ever made) became irrelevent.

Sorry for the eulogy, but I happen to like the car... alot... and think Ford is making a very serious mistake killing the car instead of reskining it. :(


Trivia item:
The Lincoln LS was going to have a high performance version by the time Cadillac's CTS came out! Ford was working with McLauren to produce a high performance Lincoln LS, who developed a number of suspension, exhaust, and even engine performance upgrades.

Ford cancelled the program at the last minute, and McLauren was stuck with the development costs! They recouped part of the costs by selling the parts on the aftermarket.

GM was planning to answer the V8 powered Lincoln McLauren LS with a turbocharged 3.6 V6 Cadillac CTS. Fortunately, GM beancounters discovered it would be cheaper to simply put a LS1 engine and 6 speed in the car, and so it was.

Beancounters do enthuiasts a favor once in a while. :)

The Lincoln Aviator quietly passed away over a month ago. So quiet, I didn't even know about it till recently.

The Explorer comes in so many trim levels, it's hard to have a stablemate (much less 2 of them) that is simply supposed to be an upscale version. In fact, you can order an Explorer Limited that will come with even more options than are available on the Aviator - like the customized leather, memory seats,pedals, mirrors, etc. at an equal or even lower price because of the Explorer's mass volumes.

There is a huge difference between the Expedition and the Navigator - even in the highest trim levels. Not really so with the Aviator/Mountaineer/Explorer. I think it's obvious at least one of those 3 has to go. I don't blame Ford for trying it though... the Navigator has done pretty decent since inception.

As for the LS - I agree with guionM 100%. That car - above all other Lincolns - has the best chance of becoming a successful luxury import fighter. The owner reports are exceptional, loyalty is too. My boss has a new 2005 LS and LOVES it.
The DEW chassis needs a reskin, the interior needs the same cues and upgrades given to the rest of the Ford lineup (round vents, smoothed center console, new guage clusters, new fabrics and materials, new leather seats, etc), some new wheel packages, and a massaged 3.9 or 4.1L putting 240-260hp down. The DEW cars handle like they are on rails already, IRS and all. I also would like to see Ford work on dropping the price for a V8 LS by about $5-7k. Putting that car in the low $30s would make it a tough value to pass over.
To offer a 300hp version with tame ground effects and rear deck spoiler from SVT would be coup-de-gras - in fact, it would have me at a dealership with a checkbook.

I guess we will have to see where the new Milan comes into the lineup. I doubt it will offer the performance or style levels the LS does, but who knows.

On a side note about Linc/Merc...
I want to ask you guys as enthusiasts - not GM fans, Mopar fans, Ford fans, or any other make - don't you think Ford is screwing up by not offering the LS in a sporty package and also by not bringing the Marauder back with the old Cobra engine?

I personally think that an SVT version of the Lincoln LS would rock. It would cost less than a CTS-v, yet be a very capable performer with a boatload of luxury and refinement. Perhaps a blown version of the V6 (like the Tbird SC), or one of the smaller V8s from Australia like the Boss 260. I think a package like that for $35-40 would sweep the niche market by storm.

Likewise, I think the Marauder - with exactly the body and trim levels offered in 2003 - with the 390hp Cobra engine would simply rock. You know it could be had for $32k if not less, all the specific parts are already tooled for the Panther cars, and the market seems even more ripe right now for a big-hp luxury car than it did 3 years ago. The Marauder, with tinted windows and a gurgle from the 3" Stainless duals, gives me goose-bumps... but it needs to be able to spin a wheel when desired.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Ford is sitting on two VERY lucrative units right there that would really sell very well, if given the chance and marketed correctly. Shame is, virtually all of the development and tooling costs are already done and the parts are ready to go. :confused:

I test drove an 02 (I think) Lincoln LS V8 w/ ~40k miles on it. It was a great deal for the money - used, but that's because the resale value on them is so ridiculously bad.

For the price they ask for them new... HELL no. I saw way too many parts on that car that were straight out of the Ford part's bin. The interior was well sound deadened, but in terms of layout, materials, and build quality I could have easily mistaken it for a Ford.

Handling was so-so, as was power for a smalish V8 car like that (I was hoping for better).

All in all it was better than any Lincoln sedan I've driven to date, but that's not saying much.:p

I just looked online and it appears they revised the interior of them in 03 or something like that... looks quite a bit better. Haven't driven one like that yet.


Oh, and I always thought the Aviator was a waste of time except for the DOHC 32v V8 they used... if they drop that in the Aviator they need to make it optional in the Explorer or maybe even standard in the top model.:D

I think I've posted previously, that Ford invited myself and dozens of other (what I assumed were), enthusiasts for a ride and drive of the LS, several months before it was released. Lots of DEW98 engineers were around to talk with and ride with. They actually encouraged you to beat the piss out of these cars and give your input.

All I could say was WOW, was I impressed. At the time I felt the LS was probably Ford's best product...EVER! I certainly felt it was in the same league as all the German cars they had available for comparison....for thousands less. It handled marvelously, the manual trans (V6 only), was as slick shifting as a Miata. I left that day really, really feeling that Ford had an unbelievable hit on it's hands. What a shame it's going away. Too bad Ford couldn't market it in a successful way. I wonder if things might have been different if DEW was designed to accept Mod motors?

And Proud, I with you on another go around with the Marauder. Damn, that package was sooo close to nailing it...it just needed more torque. The Cobra's old SC 4.6 would be so frickin' cool in that car. Even a normally aspirated 3v or 4v 5.4 would be cool.

And Guy, on that CTSv.....a 3.6T of about 320 hp was planned. At some point someone realized that may not be enough ooomph for the impact they were looking for on that car. The Northstar wouldn't fit...so what to do...what to do??

Can you imagine Dave Hills face when he was TOLD that his primo Vette motor was going into a Caddy? The LS6 was way cheaper than any other alternatives, as well.

Oh, and on the Aviator...my wife really wanted one a couple of years ago. It's a nice package. 7 seats. Nice interior. Rides and handles better than GM's GMT360 equivalents mostly due to it's IRS. The Mach 1 motor was cool....not enough grunt off the line though....but once you're rolling it's glorious.

I had some personal problems with it though. First was an MSRP of $47,000! :eek: :eek: Ok, there were rebates and the dealers were willing to deal...so maybe we could knock 7 or 8K off of that.

But the thing that kept haunting me was 13 MPG (EPA rated - YOUR mileage WILL vary) x premium fuel ONLY x 20,000 miles per year.

That's weak. I drove both the CTS and LS and feel the LS was the superior car on all levels. The price tag was just way to high for a Lincoln, no wonder they didn't sell. They're an AWESOME buy on the used car market though. As for the Aviater, again, the price was way too high, as it crept within a couple thousand to the Navigator.

Lincoln sure does know how to build a very classy interior, something Cadillac could take a note from.

Im sad to see the LS go. the car stands out in its stateliness (its a word...) and is hugely popular around here. Ive literally seen 6 at one stop light (two major roads crossing, but still) oh well, I guess this just means that finding a nice black LSE will be easier on the wallet down the line.

I think they are great cars also, they have the perfect balance of overhangs and the styling is nice, it keeps you out of trouble. I think it would be a great car with the GT's 300hp and 87 octane gas.

Speaking of dying Lincolns, I have to assume the next to go will be the Mark LT? You know, the luxury pickup they're trying to sell, again? Now I realize this is a more useful attempt than the rediculous Blackwood but I've only seen 1 on the road in the time they've been out...hasn't it been a year or so now? :shrug:

I saw the eulogys in C&D this month as well. A couple things...

1) I think the LS is/was a great car, but the price is simply INSANE. There is an '06 LS at the local LM dealer next to the Milan I wrote about a few weeks back...$46k!!! For what??? It barely outpowers an STS V6, and sure as heck doesnt look nearly as nice, in or out. Ford really priced those out of the market eons ago...I remember a C&D test of one awhile back, saying how awful the price structure was. Getting rid of the V6 version for '05 made it even worse!! Nice car, dismal price.

2) My parents looked at an Aviator before buying their '03 Explorer Limited. To spend $9k more (MSRP to MSRP) to get the extra 60hp and not much else was simply not worth it to them. And with the '06 Explorer getting a real V8 finally, there definitely is no reason for an Aviator anymore. I doubt it will be missed...at all.

My parents looked at an Aviator before buying their '03 Explorer Limited.

I'm curious. With you working at a Pontiac dealership, why did they buy an Explorer instead of an Envoy?

I agree with the Lincoln LS being a nice car, it just got overshadowed by the (IMO) better CTS.

Lincoln is making a huge mistake replacing it with a smaller (by a bit) FWD V6 sedan.

Apparently Lincoln didn't learn its lesson with the Blackwood.
Granted the Mark LT is alot easier to make, but it won't do well.
Take a F150 Lariat, replace the grille and wheels, add chrome rockers & trim, add taillights to the tailgate, add $10K to the price, and you have a Mark LT. Biggest rip-off ever.

On a side note (little bit off-topic sorry) Ford has re-defined the term "re-badge" with the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego and Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan. Just amazing how little differences there are.

I'm curious. With you working at a Pontiac dealership, why did they buy an Explorer instead of an Envoy?

I'd get the 06 Explorer over the current Envoy without a doubt, though not so sure about the pre-06.

Out of all of the cars that have been announced dead in Guion's threads, the LS is the only one that I actually liked. Sad to see it go.

I am not much of a Ford fan, but I always wanted an LS. It is a shame they are leaving. I always heard good things about the as well.

I'm curious. With you working at a Pontiac dealership, why did they buy an Explorer instead of an Envoy?

1) We are one of those lonely 111 Pontiac dealers that are not dualed with ANYTHING else. We used to have Olds. She looked at an '03 Bravada and liked it, but my father and I agreed that the issues Olds was having with the AWD system to that point were not something he was willing to take a chance on. Those have since been remedied, but you never know. Depreciation was not an issue...she'll have this car until '13, likely.

2) The Envoy they road tested at a competing Pontiac/GMC dealer was "too floaty" over bumps, in her words. She has extremely bad motion sickness if she is not driving (people that get this find that when they drive, they are not subject to it because they pay closer attention to the road and anticipate motion better). Since she had an '85 Olds Calais with a floaty ride that made her sick as a passenger, every car she's had rode pretty stiffly ('89 Camaro, '95 Grand Prix, '98 Grand Prix GT, '01 Grand Prix GT) in comparison. They both prefer the Envoy to the Explorer, in reality, in all but ride characteristics. The Explorer rides like a brick compared to his '05 TB.

3) So why not buy a TB, you may ask? They simply didn't want 2 of the same car, as he had his '02 TB at that point.

She loves it, and he likes it...but I think if they had to do it over again, they would have bought an Envoy and put TB springs in it, if they'd work with the Envoy auto leveling.

1) We are one of those lonely 111 Pontiac dealers that are not dualed with ANYTHING else. .......... if they'd work with the Envoy auto leveling.

That never crossed my mind. I'm so used to seeing "Pontiac Buick GMC" on the signs.

I doubt the TB springs would have worked. The "air bag" replaces the coil. I know exactly what she means by "floaty". If I don't drive smooth in corners it moves up the scale to "wallowy".

I'm surprised that no aftermarket company has jumped on a kit to lower & tighten up the 4wd air level suspension on the GMT 360s .... at least I haven't been able to find anything yet.

And Proud, I with you on another go around with the Marauder. Damn, that package was sooo close to nailing it...it just needed more torque. The Cobra's old SC 4.6 would be so frickin' cool in that car. Even a normally aspirated 3v or 4v 5.4 would be cool.

Word was that the Marauder was to get the SC 4.6 in '05, but of course that never happened. That at least would have given it the ability to solidly beat a particular competitor that had been out of production for 7 years by the time the Marauder came around.

The same engine in the LS just would have been too cool - it'd be like a budget Caddy STS-V. The DEW platform was just a few refinements away from being terrific, and had some absolutely lovely parts that probably didn't help the whole MSRP issue. Ford sure talked a lot about bringing it down-market, and had they succeeding in such an effort with an appropriately-styled vehicle (such as the 427 concept), I think they would have made the 300C look like an also-ran.

Now they're dumping a great RWD platform that could have led Lincoln down a Cadillac-like resurgence. It's one of the larger blunders made in Detroit in the past 30 years, IMO.

I drove the Marauder a couple years ago... it didn't feel fast at all. It sounded much faster than it felt, for sure. And it handled more like a Lincoln Town Car than any sports car or even sports sedan that I've driven to date. Then again I'm sure that could be improved quite a bit with the right tuning. Just don't understand if they were trying to make the Maurader sporty why they didn't make it handle more responsively and with less sway from the get-go?

Another car with more potential then Ford realized. My friend was so psyched when the Marauders were first coming out. I remember thinking that their may finally be an interesting Mercury in the line up. That would have been one mean car with a better tuned suspension and a S/C 4.6 in it.

Would make a hell of a project car.

I was actually looking at a Marauder before I bought my LS1 F-body, I just could not get over the god ugly Interior.

I drove the Marauder a couple years ago... it didn't feel fast at all. It sounded much faster than it felt, for sure. And it handled more like a Lincoln Town Car than any sports car or even sports sedan that I've driven to date. Then again I'm sure that could be improved quite a bit with the right tuning. Just don't understand if they were trying to make the Maurader sporty why they didn't make it handle more responsively and with less sway from the get-go?


The Maurader was meant to be a throw back to the old muscle sedans, not a sport sedan. You are looking for the wrong things. That said, it did fall short in the power department. Thats why in this very thread it was suggested they bring it back with the blown cobra engine.