Soltice not so great?

I got to get all over one at the autoshow in motion, and it wasn't at all what I expected. Like alot of you guys, I had a bit of a crush on the soltice/sky ever since I saw the pics of them. I even had myself convinced that a sky redline was going to be my next car, but after seeing and getting in one this weekend, I've lost all my enthusiasm.

With the top up, it looks goofy and is a pain to get into. You have to duck your head under top while sitting way down into the car. Once you do get in, its real tight. I'm only 5'11" and with the top up, I felt like a kid in a fort made out of his bed sheets. Its not a car for people with chlostrophobia. The nonexistant storage is kind of weak too. Theres little cubby holes everywere, but none are big enough to put anything in. The interior looks nice for GM standards, but its not luxurious by any stretch of the imagination.

This car is definalty a competitor for the Miata, but I never liked Miata's. Kinda like the new Lotus's, great car, but too small. My g/f put it best; "It feels like a little $20k convertible" It is what it is and nothing more.

Really? From the early reports they say that headroom is good up till about 6'4". Thats strange you had an issue at 5'11".

Headroom should be great for everyone...it's a convertible...

You get into a tiny roadster, and complain about headroom and lack of storage space? Get an SUV or something.

Well, what exactly were you expecting? FWIW, I personally think it looks and drives like a car that costs more than 20 grand. In terms of space, most roadsters of that size are a little on the tight side. I do agree that cargo space is lame, though my complaint is mainly limited to the trunk, which is smaller than the new Miata's. The good news with the Solstice is that there is ample headroom for a 6' 2" person like myself (supposedly Lutz and Wagoner fit, and they are both 6'4" or taller). I'm not sure about the new Miata, but I have to slouch to drive my current (1st gen) Miata when the top is up (not often). My dad used to have a 2nd gen '99 Miata, and it was a little better than mine, but still too snug. The Lotus Elise is like a sardine can! :lol:

Were you expecting it to be a $20k Corvette convertible? :think:

The Lotus Elise is like a sardine can! :lol:

Yes it is. But once you're in it, I've never driven ANYTHING that handles like it and that included a 550 Marnello. Getting out, that's not so fun either. My buddy has broken off the turn signal stalk like 2 or 3 times already getting in and out of it, and has a footprint on the dash next to the steering wheel.

You get into a tiny roadster, and complain about headroom and lack of storage space? Get an SUV or something.

:D

I think they look fine with the top up, but like any Vert, they look much better with the top down.

slt sounds like you would be better off with the hardtop verson (if they made one ;) )

Yes, they do handle well! I wasn't trying to disparage the car; I was just pointing out that all roadsters are on the tight side, and the Elise is about the most extreme example in the US. I had the chance to drive an early US spec car (with the 190 hp 1.8L engine) before they went on sale. Most definitely an entertaining ride! :)

Yes, they do handle well! I wasn't trying to disparage the car; I was just pointing out that all roadsters are on the tight side, and the Elise is about the most extreme example in the US. I had the chance to drive an early US spec car (with the 190 hp 1.8L engine) before they went on sale. Most definitely an entertaining ride! :)

PacerX <----- 6'3", 265 lbs.

It isn't that tight. It feels kind of closed in because there isn't a whole lot of glass area, but I was comfortable in it.

The top itself is uglier than sin. What a disaster... and yes, I'm biased, but that thing is N-A-S-T-Y.

Apart from that, it's a great little car. I'm buying one for the wife when the hysteria dies down (i.e. scuzball dealers and their "market adjustments"...).

Pacer, are you talking about the Elise or the Solstice? I was referring to the Elise in the post you quoted.

I'm in the "Solstice isn't too tight" crowd.

I love the car. :cool:

The Solstice is a great car for the money. As I posted after my Solstice ride and drive:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=384530

Pacer, are you talking about the Elise or the Solstice? I was referring to the Elise in the post you quoted.

I'm in the "Solstice isn't too tight" crowd.

I love the car. :cool:

I'm referring to the Solstice, should have been clearer. Sorry.

OD'd on cider this weekend. I'm feeling loopy.

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.

SLT, I don't think it's fair to say the Solstice "isn't so great" because apparently it isn't the right car...for you. Seems your expectations may have been a bit off...this is still a small 2-seater afterall.

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.
With ya on that one Doug.

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.

:thumb: I'm with this guy.

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.

x 3

If a 5th gen is too easy to get in and out of, it'll take part of the charm out of it for me. I love wearing a car...but I realize I'm a dying breed probably...

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.

Couldn't have said it bettter.

SLT, I don't think it's fair to say the Solstice "isn't so great" because apparently it isn't the right car...for you. Seems your expectations may have been a bit off...this is still a small 2-seater afterall.
I agree wholeheartedly. I may be misreading things, but it seems that alot of people, including me, have very (overly) high expectations for this car. I thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Playing with it in person, though, brought me back to reality. It is just a small 2 seat convertible that is going to be impractical for most people. Its not fast, ergonomic, nor overly nice inside. For $20K, its priced right and makes for a cute little convertible, but I don't see them selling a ton of these after the first wave of enthusiasts gets theirs.

I don't see them selling a ton of these after the first wave of enthusiasts gets theirs.

I don't think it will be the enthusiasts that make up the bulk of the sales for this car. I think it will be anyone who is looking for a cheap car with cute looks around it.

I don't think it will be the enthusiasts that make up the bulk of the sales for this car. I think it will be anyone who is looking for a cheap car with cute looks around it.


cheap and cute = $15k. I think it will be enthusiats and people looking for a car that looks more expensive then it cost.

Like SLT, I was disappointed at the lack of practicality of the Kappa twins. I know they're supposed to be toys, but if the smaller Miata manages a semi-useful trunk, why not Kappa? I mean, you couldn't even go buy a case of beer with your buddy on a nice sunny day unless he wanted to hold it on his lap on the way home.

But I still want one; I'm just a bit more pragmatic about it now. No doubt their sales curves will follow those of the SSR and Thunderbird, so might as well wait until the initial hysteria dies down and there are better deals to be had. I'm sure my beater will last a little while longer.

I guess I'm old school...I take it as a badge of honor that my Camaros and Corvette are hard to get into and out of.....to me that's part of what makes them "true sports cars"...something I'm proud of owning.

I don't want an easy chair to drive, I want a sports car....something your wear as much as sit in.....I still love to drive and expect my car to perform as an extension of me......not be a big hulk that just get's me from point A to point B.

I guess I'm "New school". I don't think making a car is difficult to get into and out of makes it more of a sports car, I think it makes it more of a pain in the a$$. My Mustang is 100% of the performer that my LT1 camaro was, but is 3x easier to live with. Sports cars can be made that are easy to live with (see: C6).

I guess I'm "New school". I don't think making a car is difficult to get into and out of makes it more of a sports car, I think it makes it more of a pain in the a$$. My Mustang is 100% of the performer that my LT1 camaro was, but is 3x easier to live with. Sports cars can be made that are easy to live with (see: C6).

What is the difference between getting out of a C6 and a C5? :confused: I own a C5 and have been in numerous C6's.....no difference to me.

In fact my F4's were a tad bit easier to get out of than a C5/6......

But if you think sitting at kitchen chair height is a prefered height for performance driving, then our definitions are vastly different......but then again, you do drive a Mustang....

What is the difference between getting out of a C6 and a C5? :confused: I own a C5 and have been in numerous C6's.....no difference to me.

In fact my F4's were a tad bit easier to get out of than a C5/6......

But if you think sitting at kitchen chair height is a prefered height for performance driving, then our definitions are vastly different......but then again, you do drive a Mustang....

I didn't say the C5 was bad. It was the C4 that was bad. Being easy to get in and out of isn't just about the height of the seat. It's also about the width of the sill panel, the thickness of the door, and the length of the door. When I had my Camaro in college, I could hardly get out of the car half the time because the spaces were narrow and I couldn't get the 6' long 1' thick doors open wide enough for my bony body to exit the vehicle. Did the big ass doors make the car handle better? Did they make it lighter? Faster? Since the answer is no, I don't think they made it "more of a sports car".

I do drive a Mustang. I'm not ashamed. Feel free to use it as amunition whenever you disagree with me. :p

My girlfriends 04 mustang isn't any easier to live with then my 95 camaro. I cant get comfortable in her car no matter what I do. My knees are in the dash whenever I drive her car and the sides around my legs just don't seem to give me enough room to move them. But when I sat in the solstice I really didn't have a problem with it. ANd even the miata that I test drove a few years back, I remember having to slide both legs in under the dash and then lower myself into the seat. I didn't feel it was that bad in the solstice.

Like SLT, I was disappointed at the lack of practicality of the Kappa twins. I know they're supposed to be toys, but if the smaller Miata manages a semi-useful trunk, why not Kappa? I mean, you couldn't even go buy a case of beer with your buddy on a nice sunny day unless he wanted to hold it on his lap on the way home.

But I still want one; I'm just a bit more pragmatic about it now. No doubt their sales curves will follow those of the SSR and Thunderbird, so might as well wait until the initial hysteria dies down and there are better deals to be had. I'm sure my beater will last a little while longer.
I think that GM has thought about the sales curves seen on the cars you mentioned. For instance the Sky is delayed by at least 6 months so that means Solstice gets a lot of attention when it arrives and plenty of buzz is generated. Then Sky 6 months later getting some more attention for both Pontiac and Saturn, I have a feeling that the Solstice will be mentioned in every Sky article magazines tend to refrence stuff like that (especially with GM). Then 6-12 months after that the Solstice GT comes out and gets more press. Then I would guess that the Sky will get the Redline treatment at the same time, even better is if the first performance Solstice is a mid model, think SC 2.0, and then the Redline Sky is a turbo model and a Solstice GXP comes along with it. That way you would get 4 different shots at the customer. You get to bring in people with 1 performance level, then another, then another. If the car didn't have enough power the first time maybe it will the second. Also the Redline/GXP would come out 2 years after the initial Solstice launch.

After that I am not sure what to do. I do have a feeling that the Solstice will not have a second generation. I could see GM 'magically' fitting the HF V6s into the Kappa frames and making a Buick after Solstice is done and then maybe a FI V6 in a Caddy.

I guess I'm "New school". I don't think making a car is difficult to get into and out of makes it more of a sports car, I think it makes it more of a pain in the a$$. My Mustang is 100% of the performer that my LT1 camaro was, but is 3x easier to live with. Sports cars can be made that are easy to live with (see: C6).


I was at the Ford dealer today droping off a friends car and I had the chance to get into a Mustang GT. Its not that easy to get in and out of. The inside is cramped. Not to mention the e-brake is the chepest plastic I have seen.

Its Ok for a Corvette/Viper/MX-5/Sol'/Sky ect... to be worn. Its not ok For a Camaro or Mustang sized car to be cramped. It doesnt have to be Rolls. My STI is Mustang sized is much less cramped inside. Its funny this conversation came up. I want a Mustang Shelby GT500 when they come out but I was thinking I'll have to keep the STI as a driver. No way im going to live in that cramped space during rush hour.

My Mustang is 100% of the performer that my LT1 camaro was, but is 3x easier to live with. That's because you had an LT1. If you had manned up and bought an LS1 instead of the Bullitt you would have been willing to put up with the inconvenience! :lol:

Side note: Did I remember to tell you my Saabaru is stage 2 now? 14.2 @ 96.4 mph on crappy 2.13 60 ft.

BTW - Wanna race??? :) ;)

That's because you had an LT1. If you had manned up and bought an LS1 instead of the Bullitt you would have been willing to put up with the inconvenience! :lol:

Side note: Did I remember to tell you my Saabaru is stage 2 now? 14.2 @ 96.4 mph on crappy 2.13 60 ft.

BTW - Wanna race??? :) ;)

Didn't you lease that car? :confused:
PS: I just bought large tires and wheels so I can look good losing. :p Or maybe I'll actually get a decent time by trying a run without accidentally leaving the A/C and traction control on. :mad:

Nope, I bought the car. $19,800 tax, title & plate included. :D On the down side, I finally broke my made of glass 10 bolt rear last week. Sheared the axle in half. Hopefully it will be back together in a couple of days. Just in time for storage!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/lonewolf71/02_Z28/Axle002a.jpg

Perhaps a convertible is not for you, period. From all reports, if a Solstice has trouble accommodating your not so overly big frame, imagine how much of a chore it would be to hop into a Miata?

You get into a tiny roadster, and complain about headroom and lack of storage space? Get an SUV or something.

For sure.

My Mustang is 100% of the performer that my LT1 camaro was,

To be blunt, I'd LOVE to challenge that theory. Too bad you aren't closer :) I've driven an '04 GT back-to-back with my own car when I tested one of the last '04s a local Ford dealer had. Depending on the road test, a '99+ GT has virtually the same 0-60 of an LT1, but the 1/4s tend to be a little slower and the lateral acceleration falls short.

And the '04 GT drove like that was true. Not knocking your car...I actually like the '99-'04 style more than the new one. But it sure didn't feel as powerful or seem to hold the road as well...

Man, your LT1 must have been a real dog considering the number of GT Mustangs I've wiped the floor with, never once lost to one. And hard to get out of? Did I miss something? I'm 6'0, 200lbs and have no problems what so ever getting out of the car. Getting in....well, thats a leap of faith....fall backwards and hope it catched you. And, I as well, am not knocking the Mustang, frankly the 99-04 are the best looking ones and I almost bought one myself, but for performance, the Camaro was the way to go.

The Solstice is the kind impractical car that you strap yourself into. Its not designed to travel with, you cant bring your kids, and you sure as hell cant bring the dog.
Its you, the car and the road. The interior is not there to please the MB or BMW driver out of thier SLK's and 3 series, but its there to please the driver with minimilistic stuff such as heat, radio, and guages. On the outside, this car looks fantastic and I want one in the worst way. I know it wont blow me away in performance. I wouldnt expect it to blaze any 1/4 times. But its a roadster in the true sence of the word, and I want one oh so bad.

To be blunt, I'd LOVE to challenge that theory. Too bad you aren't closer :) I've driven an '04 GT back-to-back with my own car when I tested one of the last '04s a local Ford dealer had. Depending on the road test, a '99+ GT has virtually the same 0-60 of an LT1, but the 1/4s tend to be a little slower and the lateral acceleration falls short.

And the '04 GT drove like that was true. Not knocking your car...I actually like the '99-'04 style more than the new one. But it sure didn't feel as powerful or seem to hold the road as well...


I don't think the performance difference between the Lt-1's z28/formula and the 99-04 GT's is worth debating over given that the numbers are pretty much identical.

I didn't own an LT1, but i did own an Ls1. I've also owned an Sn95 5.0 before i bought the z28, and imo, the z28 was just as livable for me the driver as the mustang. Seating position was good on the z28 i thought (on the mustang, i had the seat lowered, and reclined to about the same position), and while getting in and out wasn't a problem for me the driver, it was for the passengers. The passenger seat was not a pleasant place to be, especially with that hump on the floor. As far as the interior went, i kinda liked the z28's layout better even though niether were anything special. Now the exterior is a whole different thing. I thought the z28 was rediculously long given the limited interior room. I thought the mustang took better advantage of it's length.

In the end, i thought both cars were alot alike in most regards. Niether was good on interior refinement or space. Mustang handled a little better, but that's probably more due to the upgraded suspension it had, but overall performance wasn't really much of a comparison with the z28 easily besting it.

I like the sporty nature of sport cars, but i don't think a sportscar has to be a pain in the ass to live with just for the sake of feeling like a hardcore sportscar. Werm already mentioned this, but the c6 is a nice example. Compared to the viper, the c6/z06 is so much more livable while not giving up a shred/ounce of performance. I hope the same logic transfers over the 5th gen and any future performance car from GM.

I like the sporty nature of sport cars, but i don't think a sportscar has to be a pain in the ass to live with just for the sake of feeling like a hardcore sportscar. Werm already mentioned this, but the c6 is a nice example. Compared to the viper, the c6/z06 is so much more livable while not giving up a shred/ounce of performance. I hope the same logic transfers over the 5th gen and any future performance car from GM.

Perhaps that is what still makes me appreciate the Viper, even though the new Vette has likely bested it. It may sound stupid, but I love how raw it is. I do like the idiosyncrasies of sports cars, I feel it gives them personality, and makes them feel like you are driving something more special than a daily beater. My z28 has been a daily driver for 2 1/2 years now, and before that my Mustang GT was a daily driver for over a year, and I got along fine. I like the Camaro's interior better, I think it is better laid out, but I do agree that the passenger seat is probably not that much fun. Oddly enough though, I can't remember the last time someone I know has complained about it, so it may not be as bad as I think it is.

To be blunt, I'd LOVE to challenge that theory. Too bad you aren't closer :) I've driven an '04 GT back-to-back with my own car when I tested one of the last '04s a local Ford dealer had. Depending on the road test, a '99+ GT has virtually the same 0-60 of an LT1, but the 1/4s tend to be a little slower and the lateral acceleration falls short.

And the '04 GT drove like that was true. Not knocking your car...I actually like the '99-'04 style more than the new one. But it sure didn't feel as powerful or seem to hold the road as well...

I don't exactly disagree with you. I've driven regular Mustang GTs and I don't like them all that much. I found the Bullitt to be noticably better in acceleration (if only a little), but the seats, handling and braking are much better than your standard GT. With a good driver (i.e. not me) the car should be capable of a 13.80 in the 1/4.

But yeah, a lot of people don't like them that much because they just see the HP and 1/4 mile times as not much better than a standard GT. I personally think the car is underrated by most folks and is the best looking (if not best) Mustang to come out of Dearborn since the end of the 1970 model year. I'd still pick it over any '05.

Anyway, my original point was that I could live with the car on a daily basis, though I don't actually have to.

I don't exactly disagree with you. I've driven regular Mustang GTs and I don't like them all that much. I found the Bullitt to be noticably better in acceleration (if only a little), but the seats, handling and braking are much better than your standard GT. With a good driver (i.e. not me) the car should be capable of a 13.80 in the 1/4.

But yeah, a lot of people don't like them that much because they just see the HP and 1/4 mile times as not much better than a standard GT. I personally think the car is underrated by most folks and is the best looking (if not best) Mustang to come out of Dearborn since the end of the 1970 model year. I'd still pick it over any '05.

Anyway, my original point was that I could live with the car on a daily basis, though I don't actually have to.

I know Bullitts are only rated 5 more crank HP from Ford, but don't most of them put down somewhere near 240rwhp stock? I know a GT will put down 220-230rwhp, depending on the year, but I have always seen Bullitts dyno alittle bit higher than that, around the 350z range.