New Mustang...

Hod Rod T.V. was praising it as the "Hottest thing from Detroit in years!"..And I'm begining to see them Modded everywhere. It's getting hard to spot a stock one around here lately. And the main theme of the car comunity right now is mixing the "Old with the New"...the timing is ripe for a car or cars like the Mustang...
The body kits are really mean looking with new paint and wheel and tires combo's are really making these things look great!
Man, it's going to be a long couple of years... :tired:

This just means GM needs to make damned sure that the new Camaro is a posterchild for aftermarket parts. The Mustang came out when, last August, September maybe? And by the time SEMA rolled around there were already a half a dozen good looking body kits in prototype form and it was easily the hottest new car at the show.

When the Camaro does finally come out, it should have just as strong, if not stronger, impact at SEMA. One thing I don't see much of is customized late-model F-Bodies. They just aren't out there. They look good stock, which is a good arguement, but at the same time, the only parts I really see available for them are a handful of tacky body kits and custom headlights and taillights. Not much out there.

What drew me to the Mustang was the fact that it was a good looking car with decent performance and a LOT of potential. In 2007 or 2008 when we do get something worthwhile from GM, I want to feel that again. I want it to make me put a for sale sign in my 05 Mustang. :)

I wanna be a Chevy guy that owns a Chevy again, not a Chevy guy in a nice Ford (that he really enjoys.) :D

Kris

This just means GM needs to make damned sure that the new Camaro is a posterchild for aftermarket parts.
Kris

Repeat over and over again :)

Chevy has been very involved with the Cobalt SS and the Cobalt in general , even at the 2.2 base level with turbocharging . Hopefully that is a continuing trend when the Camaro gets here . Give the car to the tuners before its even released ;)

Chevy is gonna have to try double hard to steal current mustang fans . From kids , to older folks in conversations Ive been in , the mustang just seems to be faultless in the public eye . A stigma the Camaro has just never quite achieved . The 4th gen went a LOOOOOONG way in getting younger gearheads hooked on f-bodies though :cool:

Personally I believe the new Camaro is gonna trump the current mustang pretty good in every aspect . The only real thing Im worried about is , am I gonna beable to afford it . Because Im not to confident it will be priced under $30K for a well equipped Mustang GT equivelent , as a completely loaded every option 2002 Z28 could reach a $29K sticker .

Personally I believe the new Camaro is gonna trump the current mustang pretty good in every aspect . The only real thing Im worried about is , am I gonna beable to afford it . Because Im not to confident it will be priced under $30K for a well equipped Mustang GT equivelent , as a completely loaded every option 2002 Z28 could reach a $29K sticker .


Not to sound mean but we don't really know anything yet... We only know that its comming back and that supposedly it looks really good and thats it. Therefore your argument should be that you hope it will trump the Mustang and that it will be close in price.

Sorry...

This just means GM needs to make damned sure that the new Camaro is a posterchild for aftermarket parts.

Well, they'd better start talking to some enthusiasts then. Ford did this extensively, even going as far as publicly doing research on boards like this one (well, Mustang boards). They were able to come up with a car that both the older buyers and younger buyers like. GM's traditional approach of just dumping a car on us and saying "here it is, take it or leave it" is just not going to fly.

Here's a tip: Don't put the engine under the windshield.

This just means GM needs to make damned sure that the new Camaro is a posterchild for aftermarket parts. The Mustang came out when, last August, September maybe? And by the time SEMA rolled around there were already a half a dozen good looking body kits in prototype form and it was easily the hottest new car at the show.


Kris, you nailed it completely.

I don't think most of the hardheaded Camaro people actually get it. All you hear from them is "more power", "Mustang beating performance", etc..., and to tell the truth, I'm really glad these people don't run GM because they'd have it in the toilet in no time. These people forget the LAST Camaro had more power & Mustang beating performance, and it's been dead for 4 model years and counting!

Mustang was and is a FUN car. The fact it doesn't handle like a Corvette makes it exciting to drive. The fact that even though it's already quick you can still choose a million and one parts to improve performance or two million to give it a unique look or feel is something that gives you a sense of true ownership and pride in the car.

Sure Camaro is quick and handles out the box, but people like to personalize cars like these. That's the biggest thing I missed when I switched from my Mustangs to Camaros. And will likely be one of the things that would entice me (even more) to go back to Mustang when it's time to trade in or sell my B4C.

The next Camaro MUST be an aftermarket friendly car. GM has to make the next Camaro every bit as personalization friendly as the efforts they are putting towards the HHR. The paint was barely dry on the 1st 2005 Stangs when I 1st started seeing aftermarket exhausts on V6s, Ford Racing wheels, custom hoods, even alumunum billet grilles.

Sorry for the rant.

No need to be sorry because it's the truth. So many people here want sooooo much power and forget that the people who are going to buy this car in the masses and keep it alive, don't care if it's 300hp or 500hp. (And if fact would probably prefer 300!)

And, as much as many here hate the Retro look, it is selling a lot more than an airplane wing on wheels. As said, It must have enough "character" to be an extension of peoples' personality through the aftermarket. And the 1st Gens were dripping with character...

The 4th gen went a LOOOOOONG way in getting younger gearheads hooked on f-bodies though :cool:


:bow:

It sure did. As much as alot of the guys on this board want to believe only 40 year olds drive 4th gens, I invite any of you to stand in front of the college campus in West Chester Pa on a Friday night, and tell me how many young guys are driving 4th gens up and down the road. I see sooooooooooo many guys in primarly Integras, Mustangs, Bikes, and 4th gen F-Bodies drive down the street there all the way into the wee hours of the morning, and my friend has a place right near the campus, so I can hear them from his house as well.

I know alot of young guys in 4th gens meet up around here as well, and there are no shortage of people there. 4th gens are getting cheaper and cheaper, and the younger gearheads are buying them up. The 4th gen was a great car to help spread the performance image of GM to the younger crowds.

Kris, you nailed it completely.

I don't think most of the hardheaded Camaro people actually get it. All you hear from them is "more power", "Mustang beating performance", etc..., and to tell the truth, I'm really glad these people don't run GM because they'd have it in the toilet in no time. These people forget the LAST Camaro had more power & Mustang beating performance, and it's been dead for 4 model years and counting!


I am glad at least one person involve with the new Camaro, Red, believes the Camaro must have more power and handle better than the Mustang. There is absolutely no reason we cannot have a Camaro that does everything that is needed to sell to the public, and support a great aftermarket for customization, and still whoop ass on the Mustang straight out of the box.

Let's choose our words very carefully here. Sure, the 4th gen outperformed the 2002 and under Mustang. It didn't fail because of that, it failed because it offered little beyond that to compete with Mustang.

I have every confidence that the Camaro team's goal will be to outperform Mustang.... model for model.... in every way possible. The difference this time, is the understanding that this performance must be wrapped into a car that many tens of thousands of people per year will find appealing.

:bow:

It sure did. As much as alot of the guys on this board want to believe only 40 year olds drive 4th gens, I invite any of you to stand in front of the college campus in West Chester Pa on a Friday night, and tell me how many young guys are driving 4th gens up and down the road. I see sooooooooooo many guys in primarly Integras, Mustangs, Bikes, and 4th gen F-Bodies drive down the street there all the way into the wee hours of the morning, and my friend has a place right near the campus, so I can hear them from his house as well.



Well now the 4th gens are cheaper so there are more young people in them.

But the majority of college kids are not going to be able to afford a new "Z28" Camaro let alone pay the insurance on one. Yes there are a few spoiled little rich kids, and a few that work their ass off to pay for that car - but this is not the "majority."

You have to be appealing to all and the majority of potential new car buyers are going to be 25+ /NOT/ in college. ;)

:bow:

It sure did. As much as alot of the guys on this board want to believe only 40 year olds drive 4th gens, I invite any of you to stand in front of the college campus in West Chester Pa on a Friday night, and tell me how many young guys are driving 4th gens up and down the road. I see sooooooooooo many guys in primarly Integras, Mustangs, Bikes, and 4th gen F-Bodies drive down the street there all the way into the wee hours of the morning, and my friend has a place right near the campus, so I can hear them from his house as well.

I know alot of young guys in 4th gens meet up around here as well, and there are no shortage of people there. 4th gens are getting cheaper and cheaper, and the younger gearheads are buying them up. The 4th gen was a great car to help spread the performance image of GM to the younger crowds.

Yeah but the younger crowd buys used. Used dont help GM:)

Let's choose our words very carefully here. Sure, the 4th gen outperformed the 2002 and under Mustang. It didn't fail because of that, it failed because it offered little beyond that to compete with Mustang.

I have every confidence that the Camaro team's goal will be to outperform Mustang.... model for model.... in every way possible. The difference this time, is the understanding that this performance must be wrapped into a car that many tens of thousands of people per year will find appealing.


Not 2002 and under, 2004 and under. As much as these guys hate to admit it, the 05+ seems to be right in the ballpark with the ls1's.

:bow:

It sure did. As much as alot of the guys on this board want to believe only 40 year olds drive 4th gens, I invite any of you to stand in front of the college campus in West Chester Pa on a Friday night, and tell me how many young guys are driving 4th gens up and down the road. I see sooooooooooo many guys in primarly Integras, Mustangs, Bikes, and 4th gen F-Bodies drive down the street there all the way into the wee hours of the morning, and my friend has a place right near the campus, so I can hear them from his house as well.

I know alot of young guys in 4th gens meet up around here as well, and there are no shortage of people there. 4th gens are getting cheaper and cheaper, and the younger gearheads are buying them up. The 4th gen was a great car to help spread the performance image of GM to the younger crowds.

:(

Reminds me of my college years with the third gens. Granted, it wasn't that long ago ('98-'02), but when I was an undergrad I was just one of many with a third gen...clean, dirty or in between. I remember walking through just my parking lot at UMass Amherst, seeing a ratty '86 Z28, a mint '88-'89 Formula, a ratty '89 RS and more just in my own lot for most years I was there. I used to circle around campus on nice days with the t-top off, skipping class :D (hence my role now as a banker instead of an engineer!). Its sad to think of how many of those cars are long trashed and long gone. Those cars were everywhere.

Even mine (perfect '89 RS) is gone :( It got run into a tree by the girl that bought it from me in '02...6 months after she bought it :( Despite the stupid 2.8, I still wish I had kept that car. Memories cannot be replaced by the $4k I got for it...

I have a question. Is the Mustang so popular because of it's large aftermarket, or is it's aftermarket large because Mustang is so popular?

Well now the 4th gens are cheaper so there are more young people in them.

But the majority of college kids are not going to be able to afford a new "Z28" Camaro let alone pay the insurance on one. Yes there are a few spoiled little rich kids, and a few that work their ass off to pay for that car - but this is not the "majority."

You have to be appealing to all and the majority of potential new car buyers are going to be 25+ /NOT/ in college. ;)

I know that college kids around going to buy $25k cars. I just get a vibe on this site sometimes that many people on here seem to think that 4th gens are primarly driven by older people, which in my findings in the real world have been completely opposite.

Not 2002 and under, 2004 and under. As much as these guys hate to admit it, the 05+ seems to be right in the ballpark with the ls1's.

Depending on what kind of ballpark. I still see LS1 f-bodies run consistenly faster than 05 GTs. To me it is a no-brainer

Mustang: 3450lb curb weight 260-270rwhp

LS1 F-Body 3450lb curb weight 300-310rwhp

Take the race out long enough, and it is all F-body.

I just realized I can get a 2002 corvette coupe between 20k and 25k. Hello momma!

Insurance is only 50 bucks more on the half too (then an 02Z). *drools*

I just realized I can get a 2002 corvette coupe between 20k and 25k. Hello momma!

Insurance is only 50 bucks more on the half too (then an 02Z). *drools*

Whats weird is, I am 23, and when I have checked insurance for a z28 and a vette of the same year, the insurance is cheaper on the vette, at least for me.

Repeat over and over again :)

Chevy is gonna have to try double hard to steal current mustang fans . From kids , to older folks in conversations Ive been in , the mustang just seems to be faultless in the public eye . A stigma the Camaro has just never quite achieved . The 4th gen went a LOOOOOONG way in getting younger gearheads hooked on f-bodies though :cool:


I couldn't agree with you more, but I think it was the third-gen that got me "hooked", the fourth-gen was just the icing on the cake.

Not 2002 and under, 2004 and under. As much as these guys hate to admit it, the 05+ seems to be right in the ballpark with the ls1's.


I said that in deference to the '03/'04 SVT Cobra. (doesn't that have a nicer ring than GT500?)

i'm one of those hoping for a STRONG aftermarket for the 5th gen. Mustangs and there aftermarket are directly related. i'm 26 (as of tonight at midnight...WOOOHOOO!!!) and i WILL be buying a 5th gen no matter the price point as long as it is appealing to me and there is an aftermarket to support it. Mustangs around here are popular because of the aftermarket and the aftermarket is popular because of the popularity of the car and so on. they feed off each other. we need that with the 5th gen. think of the pony car formula. personalization was one of the key things GM strived for with the 1st gen. we seriously need that back in a bad way.

I hardly doubt the aftermarket popularity is gonna be an issue with a 5th gen . The dead 4th gen's aftermarket is as vast as a 5.0 stangs and it continues to grow . And the 3rd gen is finally hopping on the 4th gens coat tails . There is some absolutely killer stuff that has recently came out for the 3 gens . Can you say adjustable coil over's for the front utilizing the stock struts , coil over adjustable rear shocks that use stock mounting points , LS1 swap tubular k-members , LS1 plug and play swap harnesses ect ect ect .

F-body aftermarket is not hurting or lacking in anyway shape or form . Body kits were mentioned , but neither the 3rd gen or 4th gen , short of hoods and spoilers lent itself well to body mods . They are sexy as is :cool:

So, what I'm getting here is that Chevy should bring the 5th gen out in a manner that is similiar to, lets say, the Scion Tc? ;)

I can understand what some of you all are saying about personalization and customization and how it makes you feel about the car. When I look at my 240sx and my truck, all I see is basic performance mods (i/h/e) and then on to the visual work (NOT rice with regards to the Nissan, just clean and low).

When I look at my Camaro, all I think about is what performance part I'm going to buy next and whether I should go h/c or FI or both.

But isn't that what you want in a performance car though? I don't want to be thinking about what the newest thing out of JC Whitney is going to be, I want to be thinking about how to turn harder and accelerate faster. I mean, the vette doesn't have that many body kits, and I'll be damned if I've ever seen a vetter that had one on that looked nice. I don't see any complaints coming out of them.

Like what Kris said, the Fbods (especially the SS and Ws6/ Firehawk models) already looked damn good from the factory. Other then the RK Sport basic kit I put on my car, I can't think of anything that would make it look better. Same with the Ws6's. These cars don't need body kits to look mean. The Stang does. Stock, it doesn't look impressive at all to me. The kits that are out there just make it look how it should have from the start.

That's all from the visual point of view. If you guys are talking performance, then I don't know what more you could want. Since the basic chassis design's so old, there's a bunch of parts out there for whatever application you need, and they're still making new ones. Just look at UMI's new Torque Arm set-up or that De-coupling Torque Arm I get all hot and bothered over. The car's been dead for 3 years and brand new parts are still being developed. Engine-wise, there's something new coming out for the gen3 engine every week it seems.

I think the major problem is not customization, it's that it was too hard core of a car for most people. That's a much harder problem to solve though, because personally I would gladly make those trade-offs in comfort, but I know the "Everyman/woman" wouldn't, and they're what counts.

you guys made great points, but you both pointed out one thing. the aftermarket NOW is booming, what about when they were out from the dealers??? parts 3 years ago weren't that cheap. i would love to see well developed parts come out at a good price 2 months after the car is released, not 3 years after it dies. the Scion idea isn't that bad either. alot of people won't go out of their way to get aftermarket parts, people like Joe and Jane Anybody. it would be nice to walk into a Chevy dealer, pick out your color and interior, and then have the salesman say, "let me show you our options booklet, this way you can make yours unique to your likings." this would definetley attract some buyers that would never have looked at a Camaro before. i'm an enthusiast, so i want the thing fast and agile out of the box, but i don't want to wait 2 years to get some well engineered parts to come out so i can improve power, acceleration, cornering, braking, etc.

A big aftermarket is great as far as performance oriented stuff is concerned, but the Scion-rice-from-factory is just pure "bling". Who cares how many bodykits are available for a car, bodykits are retarded anyway. As long as the 5th gen at least has the LS2 for a base engine then that should be enough. Hopefully there will be a 45k LS7 equipped car to rape the new Cobra. Not likely though since they build so few :(

A handful of great points were made in this thread. I fully understand GM needs to find the "Magic" Ford has with the Mustang, box it up, and put a bowtie on the grill. The car won't survive, and will be killed again if they aren't able to sell it.

With that said.... [flame suit on] To those that said the Camaro better beat the Mustang in performance, handling, braking, build quality, materials, etc.... IT BETTER. It will end up coming to the market atleast 4 YEARS after the 2005 Mustang. I would hope GM can make a superior car with that much extra time on their hands. [/flame suit]

If they can't make a better car than the other guy, when they are last to the market, they need to close shop and look for another way to make money. This isn't just a general thought about the Camaro, it goes for all markets, and all categories they cover. :yes:

I have a question. Is the Mustang so popular because of it's large aftermarket, or is it's aftermarket large because Mustang is so popular?

damn you and your chicken or egg logic! :D I think the aftermarket is large because it was so popular to mod them,

der rigour mustang equipment;
A. K&N filter
B. 180 thermostat
C. Off-road pipe
D. 3.73 gear
E. Underdrive pullies
F. Flowmaster mufflers
G. Supercharger

I have no doubt the Z28 or whatever trim Camaro will stomp the GT, as I can't see them doing anything that didn't at least match the LS1's output. My question is will they offer up anything to even come cloes to fighting the Cobra. I'm kinda thinking they'll ignore that market w/ Camaro since they have the Vette and just figure if you want to spend $45kish you might as well get a Vette...

I've never been one for body kits, but I do find it interesting that there are zero body kits for the 3rd or 4thgen that don't look like total ass to me. I mean, total garbage... There weren't alot but I've at least seen some previous gen Stang setups that looked fairly good, and I really really like some of the newest 05 Stang kits I've seen. Just about got to be something to do w/ the original shape of the car, more squarish traditional proportioned Stang must work better w/ body kits or something.

damn you and your chicken or egg logic! :D I think the aftermarket is large because it was so popular to mod them,

der rigour mustang equipment;
A. K&N filter
B. 180 thermostat
C. Off-road pipe
D. 3.73 gear
E. Underdrive pullies
F. Flowmaster mufflers
G. Supercharger



and not to leave the Fox body guys out:
A. Headers
B. Off-road H-pipe
C. Flowmasters(they are the Mustang standard :p)
D. K&N open element filter
E. 3.90 gears
F. Trick flow or GT-40 intake
G. Drag radials with "skinny" fronts from Pep boys
H. Any "monster tach" mounted on the dash with the shift light of doom

and not to leave the Fox body guys out:
A. Headers
B. Off-road H-pipe
C. Flowmasters(they are the Mustang standard :p)
D. K&N open element filter
E. 3.90 gears
F. Trick flow or GT-40 intake
G. Drag radials with "skinny" fronts from Pep boys
H. Any "monster tach" mounted on the dash with the shift light of doom

Damn :( I'm such a whore :)

I got a 91 LX only change in that list would be 4.11 gears, Victor 5.0 EFI intake, Dr-Gas X-pipe, and dynomax race bullets, but in my defense I gotta say a set of 165R15's from pep boys goes really well with a set of 275/50R15 drag radials.

Damn :( I'm such a whore :)

I got a 91 LX only change in that list would be 4.11 gears, Victor 5.0 EFI intake, Dr-Gas X-pipe, and dynomax race bullets, but in my defense I gotta say a set of 165R15's from pep boys goes really well with a set of 275/50R15 drag radials.

around by me, it's the law for 5.0s :lol: my girl is a Mustang junkie and that's her list for must haves :D

I really love the stuff out for the 05's and none of it's too gaudy. APC is now releasing some stuff for it though...so it's only a matter of time before there will be riced out V6 new Mustangs on the streets. Here are some somewhat dated shots of my Mustang. It's got the Street Scene kit on it and a ducktail spoiler. It's really clean and the kit looks like it could be a Ford-designed kit (and actually kind of is.)

Here are some pics (the wheels and hood have changed, it's supercharged, and I just this evening put new wheels and tires on it...)

http://myspace-100.vo.llnwd.net/00197/00/11/197601100_l.jpg

http://myspace-189.vo.llnwd.net/00197/98/10/197600189_l.jpg

http://myspace-995.vo.llnwd.net/00269/59/95/269955995_l.jpg

Kris

NICE 05 Kris!
I got tired of flowmasters on everything, especially everything with a 5.0, going dynomax myself
but yeah, other than that the list is absolutely correct for the 5.0 crowd

Here are some pics (the wheels and hood have changed, it's supercharged, and I just this evening put new wheels and tires on it...)

http://myspace-100.vo.llnwd.net/00197/00/11/197601100_l.jpg

http://myspace-189.vo.llnwd.net/00197/98/10/197600189_l.jpg

http://myspace-995.vo.llnwd.net/00269/59/95/269955995_l.jpg

Kris

Nice looking Mus Kris. Im also a big fan of the huge aftermarket the 05's have for them right now. I really dig some of the body kits available for the new Mustang. They're not gaudy or over the top, alot of them are just clean designs that REALLY make the car look more aggressive. Hopefully the 5th gen gets this kind of aftermarket treatment when it comes out.

Also for the Camaro has to be faster than the Stang guys, keep in mind that any new Camaro isnt gonna be competing with 05 Mustang numbers, by the time it comes out the GT is gonna have more hp and there are gonna be other higher hp special models out by then. Hell I'd be happy if the Camaro team can just give us a superb car in all areas and just be around the hp levels of some of these future higher end Mustangs.

Not 2002 and under, 2004 and under. As much as these guys hate to admit it, the 05+ seems to be right in the ballpark with the ls1's.


here we go again..

Nice looking Mus Kris. Im also a big fan of the huge aftermarket the 05's have for them right now. I really dig some of the body kits available for the new Mustang. They're not gaudy or over the top, alot of them are just clean designs that REALLY make the car look more aggressive. Hopefully the 5th gen gets this kind of aftermarket treatment when it comes out.

Also for the Camaro has to be faster than the Stang guys, keep in mind that any new Camaro isnt gonna be competing with 05 Mustang numbers, by the time it comes out the GT is gonna have more hp and there are gonna be other higher hp special models out by then. Hell I'd be happy if the Camaro team can just give us a superb car in all areas and just be around the hp levels of some of these future higher end Mustangs.

if tradition sticks and we get the base Vette's motor, then we already won the HP war by a mile. Now they just need to focus on the rest.

if tradition sticks and we get the base Vette's motor, then we already won the HP war by a mile. Now they just need to focus on the rest.

Chevy will win. And it will be good. Very good.

Until then I'll enjoy my 500hp 05 Mustang. :D

If GM does the Camaro right, you can bet your ass that I'll be in line for one.

Kris

I hardly doubt the aftermarket popularity is gonna be an issue with a 5th gen . The dead 4th gen's aftermarket is as vast as a 5.0 stangs and it continues to grow

It's not even close to the neighborhood of the 5.0 Mustang, sorry.

if tradition sticks and we get the base Vette's motor, then we already won the HP war by a mile. Now they just need to focus on the rest.

If you are comparing it against the Cobra you lose by a mile, not to mention there are other Mustangs coming, and a redesign should be out for the Mustang a year or two after the Camaro finally shows up. Your best bet is to hope that the base Vette gets at least a 450 hp engine in it's future.

If you are comparing it against the Cobra you lose by a mile, not to mention there are other Mustangs coming, and a redesign should be out for the Mustang a year or two after the Camaro finally shows up. Your best bet is to hope that the base Vette gets at least a 450 hp engine in it's future.


I think he's talking base v8's....bread and butter z28 vs GT. In which case, i'd give the nod to the Z if it does get an Ls2 standard which i'd think it would.

Imo, the top of the line GT500 (unless GM gets serious about a truly high-end camaro) will be in a class of its own with no real competition. We'd be talking 450-500 horses.

So i expect GM to win the hp war in the bread and butter models (which matter the most really), with the Mustang GT500 taking top honers (unless GM is upto the challenge).

Hard to tell at this point since there is NO camaro.

I am still willing to bet that pricepoint for pricepoint, the Camaro will mop up with the Mustang. We have been told time and time again on here that Chevy has every intention of competing with the new Mustang on every level, so I worry little about the power issue.

I think he's talking base v8's....bread and butter z28 vs GT. In which case, i'd give the nod to the Z if it does get an Ls2 standard which i'd think it would.

Imo, the top of the line GT500 (unless GM gets serious about a truly high-end camaro) will be in a class of its own with no real competition. We'd be talking 450-500 horses.

So i expect GM to win the hp war in the bread and butter models (which matter the most really), with the Mustang GT500 taking top honers (unless GM is upto the challenge).

Hard to tell at this point since there is NO camaro.

That's what I've been saying all along. It'd be cool if they did a 45k LS7 ZL1 Camaro or something, but it would never happen. Blame the Corvette.