Thinking about buying a '91 3.1 V6, need some help

This is going to be my first car.. The car I'm going to look at tomorrow is $1,500(the lowest she will go is $1,200 but that might change if I hand her $1000 cash in her hand) with 3k miles on a rebuilt 3.1 MPFI. The only thing it really needs is a paint job(it's already primed) and a stereo, and those two things are the least of my worries. Right now the lady drives it back and forth to work everyday, so it's in good mechanical condition. She also have reciepts for every thing except for the rebuilt motor because her husband did it himself(I dont know if that is a good thing or not) It's been in the paper for about 3 weeks and the people who have gone by to look at it didn't want it just because of the looks, so if this is true and nothing else is really wrong with it, is it a good price? Also, can anyone tell me anything about the 3.1s? What kind of power do these put out stock? I'm guessing nothing over 150hp so I'm not gonna get my hopes up lol. hopefully it has a good amount of torque for a V6. Also, I'm not sure if this is an RS or not, I thought all the RS's came with the 3.1s?

I bought a 91 RS with a 5.0 TBI with ok paint...only needed tires for $2300. I would try for a V8. THe 3.1 is better than the old 2.8, but I think 135hp is all you get. If you get it, and since it is already primed, paint it a cool color and enjoy it for it's good looks. 91 you got a RS or a Z28...

In 91 Camaros only came as RS or Z28. The RS came with the v6, 305 TBI, or I believe a 305 TPI. The home rebuild is definately a bad thing. Most garages are not clean enough really. I would question if the engine was really rebuilt at all. Test it out though. If it smokes at all or leaks fluid... don't buy it.

I don't know a lot about cars, so if I look under the hood what are some things that I could tell by looking at that it's a rebuilt motor? By talking to the lady she was telling me that they(her and her husband) were trying to fix it up nice and keep it, but now she's pregnant and already has 3 kids so she needs a bigger car.

I asked if it leaks oil or anything and she said no, and that was after knowing I was coming out to look at it tomorrow so I don't tihnk she'd lie about it when I can find out if it really does leak oil tomorrow... Tomorrow she's gonna be at work when I come by to look at it and she said that she will come out and start it for me and stuff. I kinda looked at it tonight but I could only see so much in the dark. The primer looks good, not some half ass job, it has nice 15" Cragar wheels, it does have a good stereo system in it(that's why she's taking it out) so if it was a POS I doubt they would be putting that much money into it, ya know? :shrug:

No offense intended, but you sound young and inexperienced. Take someone with more car experience with you to look / test drive..... Trust no one..... Sad but true

None taken, I know I'm young and inexperienced, and for $1000 you can't expect but so much right? I can't afford anything more than that. If I'm gonna buy a POS for $1000, might aswell buy one that looks cool and something I want to fix up... At least it isn't a '85 Civic wagon

If I'm gonna buy a POS for $1000, might aswell buy one that looks cool and something I want to fix up... At least it isn't a '85 Civic wagon

Absolutley agreed. Just making sure you are looking at options. i guess for a grand, you can't beat it if it has a newer motor...

None taken, I know I'm young and inexperienced, and for $1000 you can't expect but so much right? I can't afford anything more than that. If I'm gonna buy a POS for $1000, might aswell buy one that looks cool and something I want to fix up... At least it isn't a '85 Civic wagon

True. I learned more about Camaros from my old 88 v6 and IROC 305 TBI than from my 91 Z28. They were pieces of crap for the most part but without them I wouldn't have the nessecary experience to fix my current vehicle.

So do you guys think I should go for it if it turns out to be what I've been told it is? The only thing I'm worried about is if the engine has really been rebuilt or not, is there any way I can tell by looking at it? I guess if it doesn't smoke I'll be alright... Or say it doesn't really have a rebuilt engine and has 180k miles or whatever, is $1200 too much to ask?.. I still don't want to spend but $1000 or less on this car since she's taking out the stereo. I'll be broke for a while and no stereo is gonna suck.

Shoot. While reading my first post again I realized that I didn't post everything about what she told me about the rebuilt engine. She DOES have receipts for all the work that was done(she said the heads were bored? etc) but not for putting it back together because they did it theirselves.... But even if they do have receipts for all that who's to say they don't have another Camaro that got all this work done and are just saying it's done to the Camaro they are selling?

And I'll probably get made fun of for saying this, but my mother said she would come with me to look at the car.... She does know more than me about cars, back when she was in her teens and 20s she used to have muscle cars. But other than her, there's no one around I could take with me. :( Too bad I didn't post this thread a few days ago cuz maybe theres someone on here in my area that would of went with me.

Yo
the 3.1 is not a bad choice, they have significantly more torque than the 2.8.. It would be a good thing if it had a manual gearbox -> better performance.
make sure the 'service engine soon' light is off while driving, it should be lit up only while starting the car. If the engine idles and runs smoothly it should be ok. during the test drive give it full throttle for a few seconds just to make sure the car accelerates properly and the tranny downshifts.

I just got back from looking at it. But I have a couple of questions, while test driving it I noticed the RPM were showing very high, and all the way to the end completely passed the red when I floored it, then once it shifted it was still in the yellow, but the engine didn't sound like it was revving near that high at all, it sounded normal so I was thinking maybe the tach was messed up and didn't show it right... is that normal for the tach to mess up?

And when it's idling in drive it's a little rough((dash board and steering wheel vibrates)), she said it was because she got the heads bored.. I'm not sure if it's normal for that to happen or not. She did say that I could buy an additonal motor mount to put on it........ But isn't the signs of a broken motor mount when it idles rough like that? It never felt rough while flooring it, only when sitting in drive.... But besides those two things the car is in good shape for $1200

Don't worry about the tach issue; my '88 2.8 Camaro does the same thing. I don't know why it does it, but if it's like my car, then the motor is not revving nearly as high as the tach indicates. Mine, from a full throttle stomp, shifts almost off the red end of the tach, so it's not reading anywhere close. If you decide to get it fixed, let me know what fixed it, otherwise I'm gonna leave mine; it's kinda cool in a way. Good luck with the car!

Well I'm glad to hear it's nothing major wrong. I wasn't even going over 40mph.. I'd hate to see what it would be like going 75 on the interstate.

LOL Bored heads!! Additional motor mount?!!?? This lady is feeding you garbage. First off, you don't 'bore' out heads, you either port, or polish them. When you bore something on an engine, its the cylinders in order to bump up the cubic inch displacement. Now as for this motor mount, yes, a broken mount can indeed cause a engine to shake at idle, and appear as a miss, but thats something you will have to look at. Take a lone pry bar and pry on the mounts, watch for cracked rubber to spread apart when prying. Odds are it's probably a miss in the engine. Could be couple of crossed plug wires, or even a vacuum line that isn't hooked up. Good luck, and if you need any help hollar at me on AOL instant messanger, or leave me a P.M. I'd be gald to help you out. I was in your situation once too when I was young.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Fixing a broken motor mount won't cost but like $80? So if it is indeed a broken motor mount it's not that big of a deal to me... I could probably look at the wires and vaccum line myself, right? I'm far from being a mechanic but I have helped someone change the plugs and wires on their car so I know a little something about it. Where exactly is the vaccum line located at?

Motor mounts should be cheap. Vaccuum lines are all over the place. Pretty much any tube that comes off of the intake is a vaccuum line. If any of them are leaking you will get an incorrect air/fuel ratio. If it is indeed a misfire, lots of things can cause it. Bad spark plugs, bad or incorrectly positioned plug wires, bad fuel injectors, compression loss on a cylinder, and probably other things I am not thinking of. I would say buy it for $1000 and have fun fixing it. Worst case scenario is that buy a junker but you learn a lot in the process.

Compression loss on a cylinder = loss power???

I know the V6s aren't fast at all, but my sisters '94 Thunderbird V6 seems a lot than this and hers is the 3.6l 140hp.

Hell, maybe the screwed the motor up while they were putting it back together and now are just trying to get rid of it. I guess that's the bad thing nowadays, you don't know who you can trust. The lady does seem like an honest person, she let me go test drive it while she was in work. For all she knew I could of stolen it or ragged on it and she'd never knew.... But then again, maybe she doesn't give a crap because it's really a POS lol

I don't know man. I just did a search on autotrader.com for camaros under $1500 within 100 miles from my house and found a stack. v-6 fourth gens, and not too bad 3rd gens both v6 and 8. I say keep looking...... Ihave bought 3 cars off autotrader in the last 4 or 5 years and only disappointed by one that was actually through a dealer and ended up being a lemon. That only cost me like $4000 between the transmission and being upside down at trade in 11 months later..... The used private individual sales on my 91 RS and then my current GTA have been great!

I Agree With Kwik On This One, Sounds Like This Car Is A Pos!! I've Been A Car Dealer For The Last 12 Years, So I'm Speaking From A Experience. Keep Looking Around And You'll Find Something A Little Better To Start With Than This Car. If You Live In South Texas I Have A 92 Firebird 305 4bbl, Auto, And A/c I'll Sell You For $1200, Mechanically Sound, But Needs A Little Body Work Here And There, But A Great First F-body!!!!!
Good Luck
Benny

Ok, if you check the motor mounts and do find a broken one, and fix it yourself, it will cost you no more than about 30 bucks tops. I know aftermarket mounts arn't expensive at all. It's really difficult to say much about what this rough idle can be. You have to just start with basics. Visual checks in other words. Verify the plug wires are in good condition, I.E. no burnt areas from laying against exhaust manifolds, no tears in the insualtion, and check that they are all in the right spot on the coil pack and spark plugs. I have had a couple plug wires on my camaro crossed before, and it would idle rough and seem fine under acceleration. I quickly found my problem by checking basics. If the plug wires appear ok, check out the vacuum lines. You asked me what the vacuum lines were. I can't tell you exact locations, cause it's been sometime since I got rid of my 89 RS with a 6 cylinder, but as on any engine, they are the black rubber lines you see everywhere. Just look under the hood or on the radiator support for the sticker that says vacuum routing diagram. Hopefully it's still there. Some of them arn't vacuum lines. Easy way to tell is pop a line off from an end, and put your finger on that end. See if you feel it pull on your finger a little bit. A change in idle will occur as well. It also wouldn't hurt to verify your fuel pressure since it's an easy and effective way to be sure your fuel pump is in check, and that no restrictions are in the fuel lines. Simply buy a cheap fuel pressure gauge from autozone or a parts store, and hook it up to the schrader valve on the engines fuel rial. It will look like a small valve cap that screws off providing the cap remains on it. If the cap aint there then it will just look like an overgrown valve steam opening from a tire. Turn the key in the on position and watch the gauge. It should quickly build up pressure to around the high 30's psi. Start the car and watch it while opening the throttle various times. The pressure should increase some to just under 50psi under heavy throttle. If all this checks out ok, then it's not a fuel pump or fuel filter problem. All this would leave for the fuel system is a faulty injector or two. You can also check for resistance in each injector, but we will get into that if everything else checks out first. Good luck again.

And as a side note, I must agree and say take a day or two more and shop around. Don't let yourself fall in love with the first one you see. I made that mistake before and regret it. I wanted the first cool car I saw no matter what it looked like. lol. Good luck.

I just did a search on Autotrader and didn't find a single Camaro for under $1500 within 75 miles of my house. Maybe it's just the area I live in, but to find a third gen for sale is very hard to fine, and fine one that actually still runs good is more harder to find. Mechanical this car has a lot of new parts on it and I've seen the receipts for it all.

Not many cars you can find that is perfect for $1000 so I've already accepted that this might be a POS. I'd rather have a POS that I want and want to fix up. I had a chance to buy a '92 Dodge Colt hatchback for the same price, but why would I want something that looks like a Geo Metro when I can have a Camaro and paint it to look nice. This will be good enough for a year or two until I can buy a better car, after all this is my first car ever of my own.

Tomorrow I do plan to take it on a longer test drive and go on the interstate to see how it is at higher speeds.

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll tell you guys how it went tomorrow afternoon when I get back.

Where do you live? I found 5 within 25 miles of my house. Look on ebay. I am not trying to talk you out of this car, but if there are unknown issues, you should keep looking if you can. Motor mount is cheap, but it is not a 10 minute fix for a rookie. You have to unbolt and jack the motor up. Find out the oil pan is junk, and it becomes a nightmare....

If You Live In South Texas I Have A 92 Firebird 305 4bbl, Auto, And A/c I'll Sell You For $1200, Mechanically Sound, But Needs A Little Body Work Here And There, But A Great First F-body!!!!!

Might be worth a couple hour drive.

Good luck in your search, or hopefully the test drive shows a good car!

I live in Richmond, VA. Well I take that back, I found one within 75 miles http://autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?advanced=&bkms=1128835695625&certified=&isp=y&search=y&lang=en&search_type=both&make=CHEV&model=CAM&start_year=1981&end_year=1992&min_price=1&max_price=1500&distance=75&address=23111&x=110&y=10

I live in Richmond, VA. Well I take that back, I found one within 75 miles http://autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?advanced=&bkms=1128835695625&certified=&isp=y&search=y&lang=en&search_type=both&make=CHEV&model=CAM&start_year=1981&end_year=1992&min_price=1&max_price=1500&distance=75&address=23111&x=110&y=10
I would listen to some of these guys as well, take your time, look at a few more cars. I picked up my old 88 Formula with a 305TPI and a five speed manual for 1200.00 so there is stuff out there.

Compression loss on a cylinder = loss power???

I know the V6s aren't fast at all, but my sisters '94 Thunderbird V6 seems a lot than this and hers is the 3.6l 140hp.

Hell, maybe the screwed the motor up while they were putting it back together and now are just trying to get rid of it. I guess that's the bad thing nowadays, you don't know who you can trust. The lady does seem like an honest person, she let me go test drive it while she was in work. For all she knew I could of stolen it or ragged on it and she'd never knew.... But then again, maybe she doesn't give a crap because it's really a POS lol
But honestly she doesnt care if you steal it, then she gets to file a nice insurance claim on a 1 grand car. Watch out people will **** you over now a days, they may seem nice but everyone has hidden objectives in the car world. Here what I would do to tell if the engine is in good condition. Have someone sit outside of the car. Have you drive by them and as you get to them floor it and have them watch for any smoke or anything which comes out the tailpipes. Any smoke means **** motor or new valve seals either way it wasnt rebuilt.

All in all the safest thing to do it pat the 50-100$ bucks to take it to a mechanic and have them check it out. Ask the lady if you can take it to a mechanic and she better agree otherwise get the hell out of there. I took my car to a mechanic (93 formula) because the last car I bought,mustang, I got screwed on. Trust me it is well worth it, you dont want to end up w/ a 1grand paper weight. Especially since they coulda put anything in that oil/trans to make any problems go away temporarily.

Well I know most of you will disagree with it, but I decided to buy it anyway.. Maybe it's a mistake, but I took that risk. After test driving it today longer it just felt right for me. So far I love the car, I'm so happy with it.

Since there's bigger rear tires in the back the speed odometer is off, so that explains why it looked like I was going slow.. When I was on the interesate on the way home the person I rode with on the way up there was following me back and he was going 70mph and I was beside him doing about 60mph and was staying with him

Well, congrats. and good luck with your new f-body. People on this board are very knowledgeable and willing to help you out so dont hesitate to ask questions.

Well seing you got it first thing I would do is change the oil. Find a place near you that can take a sample and let you know what they find in it.
Next find someone with a compression guage that dont mind reading what the cylinders are doing.
Or you can buy one at the auto parts store and get new plugs same time. When the plugs are out of the cylinders (be sure to mark each plug wire where they came from) and screw the guage into the plug hole. Now turn car over a few times.
It will let you know the status on the motor's compression.

Good Luck. As far as price not bad but that primer paint will rust get it painted soon or watch it rust.

Change all the fluids. Cheap insurance. Paint it soon. I don't care how bad it runs, if it looks good, it will give you motivation to fix it. And post some pics!

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/speedometer_calibration_______va.htm#gm%20ratio%20 adapter

Above if you want to calibrate your speedometer....

The speedo isn't that big of a deal. I can get used to it.

Another thing I found out seeing it in the day light is that the primer looks like ****. When it was dark and rainy it looked good with the headlights shining on it... Man what a difference in the day light lol

I took this pic before touching up the side with more primer (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/4ndrms/1b84cf46.jpg) to match the bumpers. Once I can get some more I'll try to do the whole car so it matches. Do you guys think it'll be alright and won't rust until the spring? I don't want to paint it now when winter is coming with all the snow and road salt. I'd rather wait til the spring. There's not one spot of rust on the body now and I wanna keep it like that.

Primer rusts. Period. Running it through winter will really do a number on it. Cover it at least or garage it if its going to rain or snow, and dont drive it in the snow or rain. Sorry but if you dont want rust agian, you
ll not run it in the conditions I mentioned. Maybe even throw a 200 dollar maaco job on it real quick to last till you get good money saved up for a nice paint job. thats what id do then you can drive it whenever. GOOD luck with it bud, it looks like a nice straight body and good potential.

Primer rusts. Period. Running it through winter will really do a number on it. Cover it at least or garage it if its going to rain or snow, and dont drive it in the snow or rain. Sorry but if you dont want rust agian, you
ll not run it in the conditions I mentioned. Maybe even throw a 200 dollar maaco job on it real quick to last till you get good money saved up for a nice paint job. thats what id do then you can drive it whenever. GOOD luck with it bud, it looks like a nice straight body and good potential.

I agree with what he said 100%. If you dont treat the body it "will rust". Definitely going to need to do something. Either way good looking body and good luck.

Thanks guys. That will be the first thing I will do when I get some more money. I guess for now I won't even mess with trying to match the primer, because I can make that much money in about a week if my boss works me everyday. Sometimes he doesn't need me.

Actually since you already primed it and took the old paint off (or the other owner did) taking to maaco for like 400 would be worht it. The majority of the time why Maaco gets such a bad name is because people take their cars to get painted and they never strip the old paint off down to the primer. And sometimes never use primer. So if you already have that and all they have to do is paint it/clear coat it. They really cant screw that up. I would seriously think about doing that.

Agreed. Besides, you are not going to invest a $4000 paint job into a v6 car. Not worth it for a daily driver in a case like yours. I am always for do it yourself, but if you can't, take it to some shop and pick a cool color!

I am going to be painting my car soon and will use the method I deacribed above. I never painted a car before but its not that had to strip it.

I doubt the previous owner stripped the old paint, I think they just put primer on top of it, because inside of the doors, under the hood, it's all still red. And on the outside in some spots like on the doors you can see the red showing through. I just threw some more primer on the bottom side(in the pic) to try to get some of the red from showing.

For the color, I was just thinking something like silver or black. I don't want anything that attracts attention... I was even thinking about flat black, but that'd be kind of a poser since it's far from being a hot rod and I think flat black should stay on hotrods...

Black is tough to make look good, and unless the painter is good, the metallic in silver is a PITA to look right. Go non-metallic. Blue, indy green, something like that....

Once again I agree unless you can stand at the side or back of car and see flaws is so then a white or blue will hide them and make the car stand out.
My z is black but it a hard color to keep looking good. Red is a attractant no matter what car it is attahed to and silver shows too many flaws. If it has to be a metallic color spend extra and go pearl white it is easy to keep compared to others and seeeing car is in complete primer now why not?
Other recommend would be a medium met blue.

Other recommend would be a medium met blue.

Medium quasar blue metallic. Not too bad metallic if you need it, and the color is awsome. My buddy in NY has an 84 Z with it and it looks awsome. I think originally a vette color....

So going black or silver is kinda out of the question for a job done by maaco?

Do you guys mind posting some pics for me so I can see how they look? I don't like light colors.

No not out of the question but is questionable. :) The best way to hide flaws is to repair them Black is seriously one tough color to have look good from the beginning. Add a few years to it and it's even tougher.
Seriously look around and talk to a few painters and you will knwo what is being said.

I painted mine a few weeks ago, the original '88 color Bright Blue Metallic. It's a beautiful color, and I have yet to see another like it in person. It's got just a hint of metallic in it, and the color kind of shifts when light hits it. Very cool.

Go to www.thirdgen.org !! This site has so much 3rd gen only info it's crazy. In your case these two boards might be best:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26 (the body/interior page)
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=22 (V6 board)

Yeah that site is good.

I decided to paint the car the orignial color. Since the inside of the doors, under the hood, etc are all still red it will be cheaper to just get the outside painted red than to go with a different color and have them paint everything.

You can pickup an RS that needs paint for that price, an RS that has a V8!