Is the 305 L98 Worth Building?? [Archive] - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board

83_z_fan

10-16-2005, 08:03 PM

Read what the title says he is "building". by that parts well they will be replaced or he wouldn't be building. For the dollar layout the stroker will yeild big dividends. More so then putting in a 350 less then a 383 though.
Any engine no matter if it is stock or built could use mods to help it run. The same mods done to it before build, work for it after the stroking.
You dont need any mods for that matter except the crank kit to build it and the original parts that were on it if budget is tight. Other then a rebuild kit as well.
Yes heads and intake, and headers (exhaust in your terms) work well on a stroked motor but they are not required.
As for the stock motor not being a good choice to go and stroke it been waiting for a feasible reason behind your thoughts.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.
Funny thing was the monte had the same heads intake and quadra junk feed back carb sittin back on it when I originally bought it.
Only mod I did to it from there was a set of gears. 3.73's to be exact.
So how much you want out of a motor isnt always what you think you have to pay. Also a fullsize 85 g-body carbed 305 beatting a 5.0 5 speed mustang thing about it. Camaros had to have a 350 and they were sstill prone to getting theyre anuses kicked royally.
Beside in reality were arent talking about a 350 stroked to a 427 either are we we are talking a light very light stroke increase.

92blue

10-16-2005, 10:19 PM

Ever ride in one before? Stroke too long my fuzzy a$$. If you do sometime it will open your eyes a lil. They make a kit for a reason to do same thing.

Just because someone makes a kit, it doesn't mean its a good idea, or that its worth the cost.

The stroke vs. bore ratio of a 305 is purely math. It will not change by giving someone a ride. Regardless, the cost of stroking a 305 is much more money than a 350 would be, and will yield less results. The 305 already has valve shrouding problems due to the small bore, as was mentioned before. Ever see a 305 running AFR heads?

If a 305 had a 4 inch bore, but a shorter stroke, then stroking it would be more meaningful.

91-Z28-L98

10-17-2005, 08:35 AM

As for the stock motor not being a good choice to go and stroke it been waiting for a feasible reason behind your thoughts.
Meaning before you try and talk someone out of one in the first place look at the idea with a clear mind.
Do you think when my 345 was built out of a 305 it was a major deal? The dealership at the time when the motor went had a 400 crank laying in the shop and it found its way in my motor for cost effectiveness for them. But in reality it gave the seat of the pants on helluva boost.

Rebuilding a blown motor often times gives a "helluva" performance boost. I would like to see the dyno graph supporting your claims, but if it is indeed a stock engine then all you will see is the torque curve shifted to slightly lower RPMs. The stock parts can only flow so much.

As for cost effectiveness, not everyone has their engine rebuilt under warranty and the dealer just happens to have a spare 400 crank + rods + time to have the block clearanced. Most of the time all of that stuff needs to be payed for out of our pockets (Plus fixing whatever caused the engine to blow to begine with).

In conclusion, I am only saying that under normal circumstances it is more cost effective per horsepower gained to swap in a 350 than it is to stroke the 305. The 305 can be a fun engine and if you want to do something different then by all means build it and stroke it. Most people on these boards are on a budget however so my advice is typically geared toward getting the most bang for the buck.

83_z_fan

10-17-2005, 11:56 AM

Just because someone makes a kit, it doesn't mean its a good idea, or that its worth the cost. Sure bout that one? If no one did the swap in the first place stroked motors would have dies instead of being built out of garages daily. FOr many a racing event let alone Daily Drivers.

The stroke vs. bore ratio of a 305 is purely math.
It will not change by giving someone a ride. Really? thought my extra seat filled with 200 lbs would change that.
Regardless, the cost of stroking a 305 is much more money than a 350 would be, and will yield less results. Cost is still the same do you think a 400 crank says I will cost more to go in a 305?
The 305 already has valve shrouding problems due to the small bore, as was mentioned before. It has small problems but not enough to cause major problems. Relieve the head of excess material on the ports both intake and exhaust if your that concerned.
Ever see a 305 running AFR heads? Yes wanna ride? But then I'd gain the 200lbs lol.

If a 305 had a 4 inch bore, but a shorter stroke, then stroking it would be more meaningful. Seeing we have a hard time keeping up with 5.0 equipped cars let alone 347 stroked wondering If they thought the same thing before stroking it? I realize a ford isnt the same but given their kits are

Hmmmm looks better answered this way. Yes a 350 would be a kick in the pants over a 305 but then read the top of the post again it was aimed at the 305 even though wrong series was given.
Also was wrong on displacement at end of swap it isnt 340 it's 334. Or very close to that but that is determined buy how much you wanna bore to or stroke mine was at .060 over. Yes very lucky dealer had the extra parts, and I bought a extended warranty, unlucky in the fact I only had the car 5 days when it started burning oil and went 2 months without it. Though the loaned me a S-10 till it was done.
I know 334 dont sound like much but as 91 stated it does move torque down lower and it winds fast. Read as a great 1/4 er. Still maintains power thru the curve and wiegh a lot less then a bigger bore motor.
As for math goes the stroked 305 by numerics makes a hell of a lot more sense then what gm originally made. Run the numbers again.
But then again google 334 and you may see the same thing said.
383 fanactics hate the old 377 which is just junk. Big block fans hate anything thats sbc and nuts hate squirrels. Just another fact of life.
Oh last thing a grand is not a big expense for the kit when it includes rods piston and crank already to assemble DId I mention balanced at that?.
http://www.dallasexportsales.com/RA334.htm
Also another good link http://www.amotion.com/csb.html

82355

10-17-2005, 02:36 PM

Still maintains power thru the curve and wiegh a lot less then a bigger bore motor.

How do you figure it weighs less than a bigger bore engine? Also earlier you mentioned stroking a 350 to a 427, I want to see you try that. The more bad info you post the stupider you look.

Martin

Honda Hunter

10-17-2005, 02:57 PM

Good read

http://www.fbody.com/cgi-bin/dragrace/read.cgi?msgid=118

82355

10-17-2005, 05:02 PM

No, that is a bad read, full of idiots. Thety are comparing a Gen III Small Block with Gen I and Gen II engines. Yes, you can make a 427 out of an LS1. Yes, you can make a 427 out of a 400 Gen I block. No, you can not make a 427 out of a Gen I 350 block. Yes, you can make a 454 c.i. Gen I, but with an aftermarket tall deck block, not with any 305 block.

Martin

Honda Hunter

10-17-2005, 08:57 PM

82355

10-17-2005, 11:23 PM

That is because I hate seeing people pass on bad/incorrect info. There are people on here that don't know any better and are looking for truthful advice. So they take someones misguided incorect advice and they follow it. Now if people don't know what they are talking about, they shouldn't post info trying to look like they do for that reason. Don't worry, bad info runs rampant in the third gen world, it sometimes makes me embarrased to own/appreciate these cars. That is why I always sound angry and talk down to these people, to help the people that are trying to learn.

Martin

92blue

10-18-2005, 01:22 PM

91Z-28

10-19-2005, 12:31 PM

The 335 CI engine is a good path, many people have added the 3.75" crank and been happy. People who like "square" engines like the 402 (4" by 4") should like the 335 since it is 3.76" by 3.75". There are plenty of 335/340s out there making power with aluminum heads and an aftermarket intake.

93Z28rare

10-19-2005, 04:08 PM

Lots of info in here. Thanks everyone for your replies. But it seems hard to make power with the 305 without spending big bucks due to the bad design. My friend wants to be different in that he wants to beat cars and then say, "and I only have a 305." From the posts here I see that an intake change is necessary. Stroking is cool too, but the money and the fact that my friend wants to keep it a 305 make it a no go. I'll keep reading up on here to see what more info is passed.

Thanks guys.

83_z_fan

10-22-2005, 02:21 AM

83_z_fan

10-22-2005, 02:36 AM

83_z_fan, you've missed the whole point. The way you replied to my post kinda makes me look like I'm schizo....

Anyway....I'll go through things again in order.

No one is debating what the original poster intended. Everyone is debating whether it would be wise to stroke a 305.

If we were to go by "if someone makes it, it would be worth the cost / be a good idea", then I'll start making $500 kits to stroke a Briggs and Stratton 1/2 hp lawnmower. Do you really think thats going to be 1) a good idea? 2) worth the expense?

Just because everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and do something doesn't mean anything. If that was indicative of the truth, no one would bother buyin heads, and everyone would be running a $50 electric supercharger. See how that line of reasoning doesn't work?

Spending a grand to go from a 305 to a 334 is a better investment than $300 for a 350? How is a smaller displacement engine (with valve shrouding problems due to design) going to be a good thing? The only thing to gain is better fuel consumption, and the fact that you are doing something different than anyone else.

There is no sense in saying that a stroked 305 is going to weigh significantly less than a larger SBC. Wheres the difference? Only thing I can think of is the difference in weight due to piston size. How big is that?

A 334 makes a good 1/4 setup? Compared to what? Theres not too much it would be better than.

The problem with valve shrouding on a 305 is NOT the heads, but the bore size. With any decent sized valves, you will come awfully close to the cylinder wall. Are you going to grind away at the cylinder wall? Thats the problem with the 305. This problem goes away on the old 302s, a 350, etc... Ford 5.0s have a larger bore than a Chevy 5.0, hence its alot more justifiable in their case.

Since where did I blame it on the heads? If stroked briggs and Strattons are your thing then go for it bro. Good luck.
As for 1000 on a stroke kit for the 305 compared to a junkyard jewel 350 I'll take the stroker. Shocked you wouldnt either point being---- Because the 305 would be a rebuild. Sure think that that would run better any day dont you? Plus the fact the parts I showed in the post included Keith Black instead of stock standard.
In them regards alone it's getting alot clearer isn't it?
Now for the stroker 305 honestly do you think it is a junk idea? obviously thats your choice. I am not saying buy the thing yourself he asked opinions. And they all vary. Funny thing was he threw the 350 thought away fast. That given I gave another option seeing it is based on a 305. which weight wise yes is damn close to the 350 but alot lighter then any of the other combo's. As for weight yes add volume weight does increase. That should be a given. Do it enough and there is a significant increase.

pgm

10-22-2005, 10:08 AM

That given I gave another option seeing it is based on a 305. which weight wise yes is damn close to the 350 but alot lighter then any of the other combo's. As for weight yes add volume weight does increase. That should be a given. Do it enough and there is a significant increase.

How do you figure that? The smaller bore motor will have more water around the cylinders compared to a bigger bore motor where more of the volume is empty space in the cylinder. The rotating assembly of a typical 350 should be very close in weight to a 305, it just has pistons that are .264 larger and that's not much weight diff with a mostly hollow aluminum piston, much less than the diff between air and water anyway, so in theory the 305 would actually be heavier.

Also, the cost of rebuilding a JY 350 wouldn't be too bad, as long as it's in decent shape to begin with. Personally I would take the old 350 over the new 334 because it would be well worth the rebuild cost to have the 350's much better potential, IMHO.

83_z_fan

10-22-2005, 10:44 AM

pgm

10-22-2005, 12:33 PM

First of the weight issue was aimed at anything bigger then 305 /350. Meaning 400 block remember the 427 mentioned?
And I still stand that there will be a few (read as very small) lbs different from a 305 to 350. And no you are not adding more water in the jackets for the 305 versus the 350 they both still have the same fill capacity for coolant.
The original light weight term used yes was aimed at the 305 but I think you get the idea. Also under your theory of the added coolant, there is no wayit would equal the weight of added cast iron. At 8 lbs a gallon for water I would begin to think the iron wouldn't take much. But thats neither here nor there as I stated what the term was aimed at.

You stated earlier in the thread that a stroked 305 weighs "a lot less" than a "bigger bore motor," not a tall deck, siamesed sbc with 427ci.

Since they have the same outer dimensions, if the 305 and 350 have the same fill capacity as you say, then the 305 must have way thicker cyl. walls (and more deck area for the smaller bore too) hence more cast iron and so it's still heavier. But really, they have similar wall thicknesses and what little more iron the 350 has in the walls is more than offset by the extra deck area on the 305. Same argument holds for a std deck 400 as a 350.

With that said, I don't see one advantage of a stroked 305 over a 350 or a regular 305 for that matter. The redline is already pitifully low on those motors and any money spent on it would be much better spent on heads/valvetrain components to make it actually breathe, rather than moving torque lower.

83_z_fan

10-22-2005, 01:35 PM

You stated earlier in the thread that a stroked 305 weighs "a lot less" than a "bigger bore motor," not a tall deck, siamesed sbc with 427ci.

Since they have the same outer dimensions, if the 305 and 350 have the same fill capacity as you say, then the 305 must have way thicker cyl. walls (and more deck area for the smaller bore too) hence more cast iron and so it's still heavier. But really, they have similar wall thicknesses and what little more iron the 350 has in the walls is more than offset by the extra deck area on the 305. Same argument holds for a std deck 400 as a 350.

With that said, I don't see one advantage of a stroked 305 over a 350 or a regular 305 for that matter. The redline is already pitifully low on those motors and any money spent on it would be much better spent on heads/valvetrain components to make it actually breathe, rather than moving torque lower.

I am done I can see you are biased and thats fine but quit being blind as well.

82355

10-22-2005, 09:49 PM

83_z_fan

10-25-2005, 03:33 PM

Being biased?

You are the one who won't see the light here? The 305 is junk because of it's small, valve shrouding bore. It doesn't wiegh any less than a 350 or a 400. Stroking it is a bad idea, because for the money you could rebuild a 350.

It is not called bias it is called the truth, the same way as your thoughts are called delusional.

Martin
Try it speeled (spelled for the rest of us) right if you are going to even speel it it is disillusional.
No I was giving an option for consideration. He has already shoot down the 350 well before I came along. Which yes would be F^%$#ing A great but not his option to build. The 305 was. And for the money (1000 with parts from some of the great if not the greatest engine builders in the industry) add the fact it is balanced, and all you need is a gasket set, cam, lifters, and etc geee it is a hell of a bargain isn't it. Grab a cam meant for more torque and higher rpms along with a matched converter and watch her run.
I have an issue of either C.C or H.R that built the same thing and even dynoed it but I'd have to look for it. If I remember right it was a brute. Probably more so then mine. Either way here or there.............
The fastest way to make any power out of any motor is stroking. Why? it adds more cubes. That said dont you think in the beginning I would have also said grab a 350.
If you would read what was shown a few post's back maybe some light will enter that pathetic thing on your shoulders that acts as a hat rack.
So once again I say biased. Because if the combo was not any good do you think for one minute it would exist? Do you realize that many of these are used in the racing world? But then again it doen't matter to you because your stuck in the sand with head up your a$$.
And once again I will state it is a lightweight package. Think bout it.
Sure there are plenty of different options but he wants to build a 305 I gave him a legit idea and thats that. Drop it.
If I had the money right now I would do the 334-340 route but budget is tight and I myself can get a 86 350 already built for an exceptional cost so guess route I am taking.
Maybe when funds come around I will build what I mentioned because the block isn't going anywhere but out of the car.

pgm

10-25-2005, 10:40 PM

I am done I can see you are biased and thats fine but quit being blind as well.

It is a simple fact that a smaller bore motor has inherently less breathing ability than a larger bore motor for a given head design, and it is also a fact that adding cubes when airflow is severely restricted in the first place won't help anything.

The fastest way to make any power out of any motor is stroking. Why? it adds more cubes.

The only people who say this are trying to make money by selling you a stroker kit.

The way to increase power is to move more air through the motor. If all you do is stroke the motor, all other parts being the same, it will make more low end torque and about the same hp at a lower RPM. To increase power you need to increase breathing ability.

So once again I say biased. Because if the combo was not any good do you think for one minute it would exist?

People buy tornados, and yet it has been dyno proven that you lose a few hp with them. People buy $50 electric superchargers, do they work? Do you think for one minute that people can't make money selling useless things to people who don't know any better?

And once again I will state it is a lightweight package. Think bout it.

Once again, the 305 has .264 smaller dia. bores, so it has over 6 cubic inches more cast iron than a 350 just in the deck! (calculate 8 cylinders X .132" circle around the bore X pi X 3.8" circle circumference X ~.5" thick deck = 6.3ci) There's more yet at the base of the cylinder, plus the aforementioned added coolant.

zjr

10-25-2005, 11:33 PM

It is a simple fact that a smaller bore motor has inherently less breathing ability than a larger bore motor for a given head design, and it is also a fact that adding cubes when airflow is severely restricted in the first place won't help anything.

Well I have been quiet awhile and have just joined only to say this.
Can a 347 ford run against a 350 chevy fairly? No cause in it's stock 302 form even a 350 has a problem.

The only people who say this are trying to make money by selling you a stroker kit.
I'd almost have to B>S to this as well. Ever run drags?

The way to increase power is to move more air through the motor. If all you do is stroke the motor, all other parts being the same, it will make more low end torque and about the same hp at a lower RPM. To increase power you need to increase breathing ability.
Thats a given but then while in the motor in the first place ever thinkl gasket matching?

People buy tornados, and yet it has been dyno proven that you lose a few hp with them. People buy $50 electric superchargers, do they work? Do you think for one minute that people can't make money selling useless things to people who don't know any better?

Dumb A$$es do. Dont think he mentioned them so why did you?

Once again, the 305 has .264 smaller dia. bores, so it has over 6 cubic inches more cast iron than a 350 just in the deck! (calculate 8 cylinders X .132" circle around the bore X pi X 3.8" circle circumference X ~.5" thick deck = 6.3ci) There's more yet at the base of the cylinder, plus the aforementioned added coolant.
No added coolant chevy ises the same as any other small block. Fill capacities are the same.

That all said and like stated earlier I been watching this thread intentively only because the same combo he has listed is one we run in our car which has a stock limiting factor. Unless some wise a$$ official tore every car down then would we be caught.
I run in a very strict bracket where block #'s and heads are checked for authenticity. If they are any rule breaks it is done so in the fact they are internal.

Have to say the combo described is a high winding bitch close to that of the 302 chevy not ford.
83 good luck and hope they dont get you down. peace.

83_z_fan

10-25-2005, 11:34 PM

Thanks.

pgm

10-26-2005, 12:07 AM

Well I have been quiet awhile and have just joined only to say this.
Can a 347 ford run against a 350 chevy fairly? No cause in it's stock 302 form even a 350 has a problem.

A ford 302 is a 4" motor. What does it have to do with a 3.736" 305?

I'd almost have to B>S to this as well. Ever run drags?

You really think that stroking an otherwise stock LB9 is the "fastest way to add power" to it? It goes without saying that there are MANY other, simpler mods to gain HP on any motor.

Thats a given but then while in the motor in the first place ever thinkl gasket matching?

What does this have to do with anything? The restriction of a 305 is due to valve shrouding.

Dumb A$$es do. Dont think he mentioned them so why did you?

I brought them up to illustrate that just because something exists, doesn't mean it's any good.

No added coolant chevy ises the same as any other small block. Fill capacities are the same.

So the additional space in the water jacket from the smaller bore is filled with... what? Regardless, he has yet to substantiate his claim that a 334 stroker is a light weight combo.

That all said and like stated earlier I been watching this thread intentively only because the same combo he has listed is one we run in our car which has a stock limiting factor. Unless some wise a$$ official tore every car down then would we be caught.
I run in a very strict bracket where block #'s and heads are checked for authenticity. If they are any rule breaks it is done so in the fact they are internal.

Have to say the combo described is a high winding bitch close to that of the 302 chevy not ford.

Interesting, what kind of heads are used?

83 good luck and hope they dont get you down. peace.

I'm not trying to get anyone down. Just stating my viewpoint.

82355

10-26-2005, 01:09 AM

Try it speeled (spelled for the rest of us) right if you are going to even speel it it is disillusional.

I miss typed spell accidentally, sorry. No it isn't disillusional, it is delusional, just like I used. Here, try this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=delusional

As opposed to this one:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusional

Good thing you tryed to make yourself look smart there.

(1000 with parts from some of the great if not the greatest engine builders in the industry) add the fact it is balanced, and all you need is a gasket set, cam, lifters, and etc geee it is a hell of a bargain isn't it.

Yeah, Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons are the single greatest pistons in the world. Do you believe yourself when you say stuff that stupid???

I have an issue of either C.C or H.R that built the same thing and even dynoed it but I'd have to look for it. If I remember right it was a brute. Probably more so then mine.

Because I care??? Is that where all your misinformation comes from? Reading comic books? I prefer my correct info that comes from hands on experience.

The fastest way to make any power out of any motor is stroking. Why? it adds more cubes.

No it isn't. The fastest way to make more power is to flow more air. There is no denying that. You take a crappy, restricted engine and make it bigger, all you have is more displacement that you can't fill correctly. Sounds like you are going in the wrong direction to me. You still think people dislike the 305 because of its diminutive size don't you? IT IS NOT A 305'S SIZE THAT MAKES IT SUCK. Once again, a 302 Chevy or Ford, are both very good engines, that are smaller than a 305.

If you would read what was shown a few post's back maybe some light will enter that pathetic thing on your shoulders that acts as a hat rack.

I read every post in this thread. None of the misinformation you spewed was of any consequence. Oh, and I don't wear hats.

So once again I say biased. Because if the combo was not any good do you think for one minute it would exist? Do you realize that many of these are used in the racing world?

Yes, it would exist, because we live in a capitalist society, and people are willing to take stupid peoples money for their own advancement. As for being used in the racing "WORLD", where??? I am involved in dirt track racing, figure 8 racing, demolition derbys, drag racing, and street racing. I have screwed together many engines, transmissions, and axles. Never once have I ever seen a stroked 305. To tell you the truth, I don't even know anyone that has rebuilt a 305. 350s and 400s are a dime a dozen here. I have put together a few stroked 350s and a couple destroked 400, but never bothered spending money on a 305. Most people are aware of their crappy, valve shrouding 3.746 bore.

your stuck

My stuck what???

But then again it doen't matter to you because your stuck in the sand with head up your a$$

You really butchered this line, I had to make fun of it twice. I believe you were going for "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck in the sand" or "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck up you a$$." I have never seen the two statements mixed together, but maybe that is how you talk. Wouldn't surprise me any. Never start a sentence with "but" by the way.

And once again I will state it is a lightweight package. Think bout it.

You lose all credibility here (not that you had much . . . .) It doesn't way any noticeable amount less that any other SBC. Where are you geting this from??? You say it doesn't hold anymore coolant than a 350, of course it doesn't, not a noticeable amount. The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.

I tell you what. I don't have any 305 blocks laying around (I haul them away for scrap iron), but have several 350 blocks out in the shop. You want me to weigh a bre 350 block? I have several, maybe we can test the difference between one from the 70's, 80's, and 90's while were at it. Then you go find a bare 305 block and weigh it. Then everyone laughs at you.

Sure there are plenty of different options but he wants to build a 305 I gave him a legit idea and thats that. Drop it.

No, he doesn't. He asked if it was worth building. We told him the truth. No it isn't. Especially if one is going to go through the work of rebuilding it. Then it definitely isn't. Why don't you drop your pipe dream about the glory of the stroked 305. If the pipe you are smoking this crap out of was as restricted as a 305, you wouldn't be nearly this high, and you would see what is wrong with a 305.

If I had the money right now I would do the 334-340 route but budget is tight and I myself can get a 86 350 already built for an exceptional cost so guess route I am taking.
Maybe when funds come around I will build what I mentioned because the block isn't going anywhere but out of the car.

See, its cheaper to put a 350 in place of a 305 than to build it.

As for the block, scrap iron is bringing good money right noe, get rid of that boat anchor while you can.

Martin

zjr

10-26-2005, 09:39 AM

Did anyone read what 91z says about this as well as 83?
As for biased I believe he may be correct on the theory.
Yes adding cubic inches does increase hp. If you was to do the mods after building a 305 then would it not be worth while could there be more ponies added to it?
That said I agree with stroking. I also agree with the stroked 305 but I have alot more into it then the crank kit. At one time I ran the crank kit alone and it ran alot different then then stock assembly did. I only had 30,000 on the build up of the 305 but I will say this My times did improve alot more but I ran into another problem. Traction.
As for heads I run a varying assortment. When track looks goood then I choose to run a set of darts. I have run edelbrock's vette aluminum and even a chessey set from the original 305.
I can wind out to about 6500 rpm and well I have dynoed motor once with the aforemnetioned vette heads and had a slip in my face of 348 hp @5200 and 410 #'s @ 3900 of torque at the rear baby. I have run the 1/4 and have nothing on this site to prove. That said I can easily stick to the track and keep in the 11's all day long sandbagging or move lower if I choose. Which at this point I am not. Hell not even bracket racing in the first place.
Though my combination will not be revealed as well I did my work in building MY motor. If you want the same results do yours.

As for lightweight I agree with 83 in only that if a 300 # guy sat next to a 150 # and began a drink fest. I believe you see my point now.

zjr

10-26-2005, 10:06 AM

[82355 I miss typed spell accidentally, sorry. No it isn't disillusional, it is delusional, just like I used. Here, try this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=delusional

As opposed to this one:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusional

Good thing you tryed to make yourself look smart there. :bow:

zjr -- Wont argue this just want to say some one here needs prozac. :eek:

Yeah, Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons are the single greatest pistons in the world. Do you believe yourself when you say stuff that stupid???

zjr-- And you ole master care to enlighten us on a good brand? Especially one that is committed to providng matched sets? Dont know to many that really take their work at heart or that dedicated.

Because I care??? Is that where all your misinformation comes from? Reading comic books? I prefer my correct info that comes from hands on experience.

zjr-- Hmmm Comic books? Do you realize they have more money and experience then you? They are paid to play.
Also they get to do so on a unrestricted budget? Meaning that they can build test run dyno about anything they care to. Bet you cant.
Yes we know you love hands on experience dont you.

No it isn't. The fastest way to make more power is to flow more air. There is no denying that. You take a crappy, restricted engine and make it bigger, all you have is more displacement that you can't fill correctly. Sounds like you are going in the wrong direction to me. You still think people dislike the 305 because of its diminutive size don't you? IT IS NOT A 305'S SIZE THAT MAKES IT SUCK. Once again, a 302 Chevy or Ford, are both very good engines, that are smaller than a 305.

zjr-- At some point in time dont you think airflow can be acheived and well move from there?
I think it's stock size sucks or wouldn't have stroked it to begin with. Think about that.

I read every post in this thread. None of the misinformation you spewed was of any consequence. Oh, and I don't wear hats.

zjr-- Try one your bald spot is showing. misinformation huh? He stated a good build from a very reputable source. Even showed links who's misinformed?
And if you read so good read down a little and find the post reffered to on water jackets.

Yes, it would exist, because we live in a capitalist society, and people are willing to take stupid peoples money for their own advancement. As for being used in the racing "WORLD", where??? I am involved in dirt track racing, figure 8 racing, demolition derbys, drag racing, and street racing. I have screwed together many engines, transmissions, and axles. Never once have I ever seen a stroked 305. But I bet he strokes himself ALOT :eek: .

To tell you the truth, I don't even know anyone that has rebuilt a 305.

zjr-- Seems 82355 has very few friends and we see why right?

350s and 400s are a dime a dozen here. I have put together a few stroked 350s and a couple destroked 400, but never bothered spending money on a 305. Most people are aware of their crappy, valve shrouding 3.746 bore.

zjr-- Hey if they are only a dime a dozen I want 1200 dollars worth. By the way quick how many would that be?
Because they go for alot more then that here.

zjr-- Good for you sure everyone on this board has or will at some point. Does that make you an expert oh mighty one. Seeing you skipped the 305 build I guess he was right on being biased. Or was aiming at the easy route. Either way it dont matter you already said enough b.s as well to make a very clear case you know absolutely nothing about nothing unless valve shrouding is included in the statement.

My stuck what???
zjr-- A$$ I read it he even went on to say your head was too.

You really butchered this line, I had to make fun of it twice. I believe you were going for "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck in the sand" or "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck up you a$$." I have never seen the two statements mixed together, but maybe that is how you talk. Wouldn't surprise me any. Never start a sentence with "but" by the way.

zjr-- have to say you are quick yep he said it twice just to piss you off I bet.
I'll even bet that it was aimed at saying ass as well care to wager that?

You lose all credibility here (not that you had much . . . .)

Zjr-- Like yours counts. 83 Had to have some I seen a post in another club me and 83 belong to and well I am here to say hi. I have a stroked 305 and proud of it.

It doesn't way any noticeable amount less that any other SBC. Where are you geting this from??? You say it doesn't hold anymore coolant than a 350, of course it doesn't, not a noticeable amount.

zjr-- Can you read it was stated it must because of the water jacket being different then the 350? :shrug:

The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.

I tell you what. I don't have any 305 blocks laying around (I haul them away for scrap iron), but have several 350 blocks out in the shop. You want me to weigh a bre 350 block? I have several, maybe we can test the difference between one from the 70's, 80's, and 90's while were at it. Then you go find a bare 305 block and weigh it. Then everyone laughs at you.
zjr--- hey I wanna play though we are only going to find a few #'s different if that.

No, he doesn't. He asked if it was worth building. We told him the truth.

zjr-- No you gave him your thoughts not the truth. The truth is in the eye of the beholder. That and the fact you even state you never and dont know anyone who has built a 305. 83 gave you the truth when he pointed out a stroked version but you dont like that :cry: :cry: :cry: . Even continue to hound the poor guy trying to pour your thoughts into his head hmmmmm.

No it isn't. Especially if one is going to go through the work of rebuilding it. Then it definitely isn't. Why don't you drop your pipe dream about the glory of the stroked 305. If the pipe you are smoking this crap out of was as restricted as a 305, you wouldn't be nearly this high, and you would see what is wrong with a 305.

zjr Once again your opinion not knowledge shows. If it did show instead of pushing your oversize ego and thoughts on what is perfect you would have accepted a thought passed instead of continuing.

zjr--What is worth building is anything that runs. Wanna meet me in texas or silver state? I attend yearly both events and am sure I could definitely prove you wrong on that thought. I will leave the 334 in the car.

See, its cheaper to put a 350 in place of a 305 than to build it.
zjr-- I'll even agree 83 did say that a few times already your point?

As for the block, scrap iron is bringing good money right noe, get rid of that boat anchor while you can.
scrap here aint worth **** and neither ( had to correct this) is any of your staements as of yet.

zjr-- You dont like a 305 stroked fine but I have proof in the pudding bud and do enjoy my motor so just lets say your walking a thin line here and be done with this.

I will say 83 brought up a combo that I happen to run and yes I have seen a few others running them as well. That is an under statement by the way.
That said maybe you might wanna run what you brung and I will do the same.

82355

10-26-2005, 11:24 AM

My stuck what???
zjr-- A$$ I read it he even went on to say your head was too.

You didn't get it either huh? That doesn't surprise me. I will make a rebuttal to the rest of your (notice the correct use there) drivel later. I don't have time right now.

Martin

pgm

10-26-2005, 12:11 PM

I don't recall anyone here ever claiming that a 305 can't make power, only that it isn't cost effective. Anything can make power, the real question is, how much do you want to spend? You'll spend more to get the same amount of power from a 305 as a 350. Period.

For the original poster of this thread, and anyone else for that matter, it would be better to get a cheap 350 block, bore it .020 over and get a 3" stroke crank and voila, a 305. He would get way better bang for the buck and he could still say "it's just a 305", and could still race in 5L classes if he so desired (not that that's too relevant.) Because the 302 exists, and 350's are dirt cheap, the only reason to ever build anything with a 305 block is to prove a point.

I can wind out to about 6500 rpm and well I have dynoed motor once with the aforemnetioned vette heads and had a slip in my face of 348 hp @5200 and 410 #'s @ 3900 of torque at the rear baby. I have run the 1/4 and have nothing on this site to prove.
If you had used a 350 instead of a 305 stroker, you would simply make more power for less money. No matter how you paint it, in terms of cost, it is not worth it to build a 305 and that's the answer to the original poster's question. End of story.

zjr-- Can you read it was stated it must because of the water jacket being different then the 350?

The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.
FWIW I was the one who mentioned added coolant to demonstrate that 83's "light weight" claim cannot possibly be valid. The engines are within several pounds of one another. His claim is just not true.

zjr

10-26-2005, 01:34 PM

I don't recall anyone here ever claiming that a 305 can't make power, only that it isn't cost effective. Anything can make power, the real question is, how much do you want to spend? You'll spend more to get the same amount of power from a 305 as a 350. Period.

If you had used a 350 instead of a 305 stroker, you would simply make more power for less money. No matter how you paint it, in terms of cost, it is not worth it to build a 305 and that's the answer to the original poster's question. End of story.

FWIW I was the one who mentioned added coolant to demonstrate that 83's "light weight" claim cannot possibly be valid. The engines are within several pounds of one another. His claim is just not true.

FWIW I know you were and yet he correct the 305 block is a lighter light on the weight not much but in the end is it sill lighter? So how could it be untrue.

zjr

10-26-2005, 01:51 PM

You didn't get it either huh? That doesn't surprise me. I will make a rebuttal to the rest of your (notice the correct use there) drivel later. I don't have time right now.

Martin

Please do so take all the time needed. Yes take the time to properly research the idea before sticking you ass in the sand. OOPs term was head up your ass or was that in the sand either way point was made.
Your truly dont understand yet either then do you?

If I take a 305 stroke it and move power from it's low life from it was and end up with more in the area that works what this to understand?
Please tell me ohhh great one.
Did I do something wrong to when achieved this, or just wrong in your view point? If it is your intention to tell me motor combo is junk then back it the FAWK up.
I can and have run in yes the 5l class and yes I have broke a few rules but then so has half the field I am against so please give me your engine building and hot racing info because I have been doing it wrong now for several years and need someone to take me by the hand and show me my errors.
If you raced as much and screwed motors together half as much as you claim and prove these to me (which by the way I can produce any documents on my car and it's build FWIW) then I will consider you the master.
In my class we used to put up with stuff such as *******s grinding and stamping new numbers to several different block's to show it as a 305.
I have been doing what I do know for several years only because several reasons none of which I will deny or justify thats racing as the term is said loosely.. But here they are:
1) if it is 5l class action should I be faulted for not doing so. Almost all the others are.
2 )why should I be given a field disadvantage.
None of which I feel I have to tell you because I dont and wont see you in the 5l classes.

Answer them 1st legitimately and I may consider different strategies but till then dont brain wash people into the thought of a 305 stroker not working or by far not worth it.

As for the comment on the 350 being turned down to make a 305 think it over before giving useless info such as that.
First you'd have to sleeve the cylinder down to the 305.
The crank of the 305 is almost Identical as that of a 350. Because they BOTH share a 3" inch bore. Even more so in later years. Yes look at it closer there strokes are the same. You'd have to grind it down farther then you proposed which would leave you with a 307 or 283 not a 305 these are the small journal motor's 305 350 and 400 are what? Good answer large journals.
Dont believe me look hell if too lazy google it. :shrug: Thats why a 400 crank produces 340 in the 307 has more room it can run up the cylinder get it small but a lager bore..
Here is a prime example for you and have done it on other stroker's but not my 334..... The 305 350 share same parts and interchange. I can literally take my 334 crank and swap it into the 350 for 383 if I choose.
Only reason to be leery of a 305 crank over a 350 is the guess?

Strength. Yes the 305 crank isn't as strong a but only on certain years. It has a two piece cast and you easily spot it if looking at it.
If still unsure rub a penny across the journal or spout if you prefer.. Can you tell me why one crank will have a copper spot on it and not both? Or at least tell me which crank will have a copper spot?

Hmmmmmm who is the idiot now?
83 yes you were right with my attitude and knowledge I just may belong here instead thanx.

Give a man time and he will hang himself once proof is shown against what he dont believe.

82355

10-26-2005, 01:59 PM

As for the comment on the 350 being turned down to make a 305 think it over before giving useless info such as that.
First you's have to sleeve the cylinder down to the 305.
The crank of the 305 is alomost Identical as that of a 350. Yes look at it closer there strokes are the same. Youd have to grind it down farther then you proposed. Because they BOTH share a 3" inch bore. Dont believe me look hell if too lazy google it. :shrug:

Hmmmmmm who is the idiot now?

Still you apparently, I never said that. As for the cranks between a 305 and a 350, yes they have the same stroke (3.480"), but they are different. They have different counterweights to make up for the "massive" amount of weight diffeerence between a 305 and a 350 that makes the 305 so much better.

Martin

pgm

10-26-2005, 02:18 PM

FWIW I know you were and yet he correct the 305 block is a lighter light on the weight not much but in the end is it sill lighter? So how could it be untrue.

It is not lighter. It is theoretically slightly heavier. Think about an sbc with a 1" bore and all the extra iron that would be required on the deck and at the base of the cylinder. A smaller bore means more iron around the cylinder. I have explained this numerous times and if you can't visualize this then quit embarrassing yourself.

There may be variations in the castings of both 305 and 350 throughout the years, but on average, the 305 would be slightly heavier.

Even if it were 5lbs lighter, to call it "light weight" is absurd.

As for the comment on the 350 being turned down to make a 305 think it over before giving useless info such as that.
First you's have to sleeve the cylinder down to the 305.
The crank of the 305 is alomost Identical as that of a 350. Yes look at it closer there strokes are the same. Youd have to grind it down farther then you proposed. Because they BOTH share a 3" inch bore. Dont believe me look hell if too lazy google it.

Nobody ever suggested such an idiotic thing as sleeving a 350 block to 305. Apparently only you would ever think of doing such a thing. I am quite well aware that 305 and 350 strokes are the same, but what the hell SBC has a 3" bore? I said that it is better to run a 302-like engine and scrap the 305, ie 4" bore with 3" stroke.

If nothing else, please try and direct your comments at the right person from now on.

zjr

10-26-2005, 07:36 PM

Hmmm two complete idiots cant believe my eyes.
Are either one of you two related?

So I guess I'll start a new thread labeled 334 chevy and why not.
See you there. Anyone else sorry this turned into a 6 page post over nothing being proven against what is a good combo.

82355

10-26-2005, 10:23 PM

I miss typed spell accidentally, sorry. No it isn't disillusional, it is delusional, just like I used. Here, try this link: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=delusional

As opposed to this one:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusional

Good thing you tryed to make yourself look smart there.

zjr -- Wont argue this just want to say some one here needs prozac.

No, not really, I don't even take aspirin, but hey what ever you need to tell yourself.

Yeah, Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons are the single greatest pistons in the world. Do you believe yourself when you say stuff that stupid???

zjr-- And you ole master care to enlighten us on a good brand? Especially one that is committed to providng matched sets? Dont know to many that really take their work at heart or that dedicated.

Kieth Black makes quality products, but they are not the greatest pistons in the world, especially since they are hypereutectic as opposed to forged.

Because I care??? Is that where all your misinformation comes from? Reading comic books? I prefer my correct info that comes from hands on experience.

zjr-- Hmmm Comic books? Do you realize they have more money and experience then you? They are paid to play.
Also they get to do so on a unrestricted budget? Meaning that they can build test run dyno about anything they care to. Bet you cant.
Yes we know you love hands on experience dont you.

I never said there is anything wrong with Hot Rod or Car Craft. In fact I used to have a subscribtion to each, and read them religiously. I am just saying you can't just read about something and be an expert, you have to actually do some of it too.

No it isn't. The fastest way to make more power is to flow more air. There is no denying that. You take a crappy, restricted engine and make it bigger, all you have is more displacement that you can't fill correctly. Sounds like you are going in the wrong direction to me. You still think people dislike the 305 because of its diminutive size don't you? IT IS NOT A 305'S SIZE THAT MAKES IT SUCK. Once again, a 302 Chevy or Ford, are both very good engines, that are smaller than a 305.

zjr-- At some point in time dont you think airflow can be acheived and well move from there?
I think it's stock size sucks or wouldn't have stroked it to begin with. Think about that.

I am not going to lie, your complete lack of grasping the English language makes that a little hard to understand. I think you are trying to say "with the correct components a 305 can be made to flow descently. Yes the displacement of a 305 sucks, that is why I stroked it, to improve it"

Well that's fine and dandy, but with the same parts on a 350 you would of made much more power and flowed even more air. Even with out the stroker crank in the 350 it would of done better. Actually it would of done much better because of being an undersquare engine as opposed to the oversquare 3.746 x 3.750 stroked 305.

I read every post in this thread. None of the misinformation you spewed was of any consequence. Oh, and I don't wear hats.

zjr-- Try one your bald spot is showing. misinformation huh? He stated a good build from a very reputable source. Even showed links who's misinformed?
And if you read so good read down a little and find the post reffered to on water jackets.

You need to work on using commas. It would make your garble much easier to read. I don't have a bald spot. If I did I am pretty sure I wouldn't care if you made fun of it. Making fun of my physical appearance seems irrelevant. . . . .

Yes, it would exist, because we live in a capitalist society, and people are willing to take stupid peoples money for their own advancement. As for being used in the racing "WORLD", where??? I am involved in dirt track racing, figure 8 racing, demolition derbys, drag racing, and street racing. I have screwed together many engines, transmissions, and axles. Never once have I ever seen a stroked 305.

But I bet he strokes himself ALOT. Once again, the relevancy??? Besides that, what is wrong with a little masturbation?

To tell you the truth, I don't even know anyone that has rebuilt a 305.

zjr-- Seems 82355 has very few friends and we see why right?

So . . . . . two childish insults . . . . no rebuttal . . . . . well at least I don't have to read through any spelling or grammatical errors that way.

350s and 400s are a dime a dozen here. I have put together a few stroked 350s and a couple destroked 400, but never bothered spending money on a 305. Most people are aware of their crappy, valve shrouding 3.746 bore.

zjr-- Hey if they are only a dime a dozen I want 1200 dollars worth. By the way quick how many would that be?
Because they go for alot more then that here.

Well you drive up here and pick it up, and I will give you a 350. I have a few bare blocks out in the shop and I have a 350 short block in the box of a '75 K20. Hell, I even have a reringed 350 sitting on an old tire out in the shop.

zjr-- Good for you sure everyone on this board has or will at some point. Does that make you an expert oh mighty one. Seeing you skipped the 305 build I guess he was right on being biased. Or was aiming at the easy route. Either way it dont matter you already said enough b.s as well to make a very clear case you know absolutely nothing about nothing unless valve shrouding is included in the statement.

I think you are saying everyone on this board has or will rebuild an engine. I highly doubt that. No I am not an expert, but I do realize the shortcomings of the 305. Why does skipping the build of a 305 make me biased? I chose not to because there were always superior alternatives. Building a different engine, just to be different seems really stupid to me. Who would I be trying to prove a point too??? So I know nothing about nothing besides valve shrouding huh? Okay . . . . .

My stuck what???
zjr-- A$$ I read it he even went on to say your head was too.

You stil haven't figured out that simple joke yet have you? Do you need me to explain it to you? If so, maybe you should take some remedial classes. Grade school is calling your (not you're) name.

You really butchered this line, I had to make fun of it twice. I believe you were going for "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck in the sand" or "Then again, it doesn't matter to you, because you have your head stuck up you a$$." I have never seen the two statements mixed together, but maybe that is how you talk. Wouldn't surprise me any. Never start a sentence with "but" by the way.

zjr-- have to say you are quick yep he said it twice just to piss you off I bet.
I'll even bet that it was aimed at saying ass as well care to wager that?

You didn't catch that one either huh? He messed up the figure of speech. he mixed two together, and it came out a garbled mess. Then again, it is very similar to all of your typing, so I suppose it made sence to you.

82355

10-26-2005, 10:25 PM

You lose all credibility here (not that you had much . . . .)

Zjr-- Like yours counts. 83 Had to have some I seen a post in another club me and 83 belong to and well I am here to say hi. I have a stroked 305 and proud of it.

Well I am excited for you. What club is that? Thirdgen.org I suppose? I know 305s suck, and I am proud of that.

It doesn't weigh any noticeable amount less that any other SBC. Where are you geting this from??? You say it doesn't hold anymore coolant than a 350, of course it doesn't, not a noticeable amount.

zjr-- Can you read it was stated it must because of the water jacket being different then the 350? :shrug:

The same as it doesn't weigh a noticeable amount more or less than any other small block.

I tell you what. I don't have any 305 blocks laying around (I haul them away for scrap iron), but have several 350 blocks out in the shop. You want me to weigh a bre 350 block? I have several, maybe we can test the difference between one from the 70's, 80's, and 90's while were at it. Then you go find a bare 305 block and weigh it.

Then everyone laughs at you.

zjr--- hey I wanna play though we are only going to find a few #'s different if that.

Your (you own these little add ins) little add ins are so cute.

So, you are agreeing that there is no noticeable weight difference between a 305 and a 350? That is the thing your buddy keeps saying that is about the stupidest.

No, he doesn't. He asked if it was worth building. We told him the truth.

zjr-- No you gave him your thoughts not the truth. The truth is in the eye of the beholder. That and the fact you even state you never and dont know anyone who has built a 305. 83 gave you the truth when he pointed out a stroked version but you dont like that :cry: :cry: :cry: . Even continue to hound the poor guy trying to pour your thoughts into his head hmmmmm.

The truth is in the eye of the beholder??? No it isn't. You are thinking of opinions. I know people who have tried souping up 305s, but never anyone that has disassembled and rebuilt a 305 for performance reasons. Hell I owned a '90 IROC-Z with a 305 TPI and a T5. It had a cam and a few other things, and I did a few small modifications. I never messed with the engine though. It would of been a waste of time.

No it isn't. Especially if one is going to go through the work of rebuilding it. Then it definitely isn't. Why don't you drop your pipe dream about the glory of the stroked 305. If the pipe you are smoking this crap out of was as restricted as a 305, you wouldn't be nearly this high, and you would see what is wrong with a 305.

zjr Once again your opinion not knowledge shows. If it did show instead of pushing your oversize ego and thoughts on what is perfect you would have accepted a thought passed instead of continuing.

I didn't say anything about perfect. I did try to show him the imperfections of the 305 though.

zjr--What is worth building is anything that runs. Wanna meet me in texas or silver state? I attend yearly both events and am sure I could definitely prove you wrong on that thought. I will leave the 334 in the car.

No, I have no desire to drive to Texas to watch some mediocre third gen run. I can see that anywhere.

See, its cheaper to put a 350 in place of a 305 than to build it.
zjr-- I'll even agree 83 did say that a few times already your point?

My point is, then why mess with the 305???

As for the block, scrap iron is bringing good money right now, get rid of that boat anchor while you can.

scrap here aint worth **** and neither ( had to correct this) is any of your staements as of yet.

zjr-- You dont like a 305 stroked fine but I have proof in the pudding bud and do enjoy my motor so just lets say your walking a thin line here and be done with this.

Another nice little add in. I guarantee you scrap iron is bringing good money there too. It is bringing good money all over the US. China is buying the stuff like there is no tommorow, but we are not going to get in an economics debate here. For one, it is irrelevant, and two, I don't want to stress your brain.

I will say 83 brought up a combo that I happen to run and yes I have seen a few others running them as well. That is an under statement by the way.
That said maybe you might wanna run what you brung and I will do the same.

I don't need to run anything. I have seen lots of people run 305s. None of them have impressed me.

Martin

zjr

10-27-2005, 01:59 AM

Seeing this isnt our post and this is going alot longer then it should I feel we should be polite and move. It would be much more respectful for a guy wanting some ideas then us wasting his and everyone elses time reading a post dealing none other then mods he isnt interested in. Kind of makes us all asses for doing so dont you think?

That said here goes no I dont belong to any other camaro group. I only own 1 f-body pain in the ass. It is running a stroked BB for starters and cost of running it is outrageous. I will give you these hints 83 had the car before me. I found a liking to it and guess what when we were together in the service it became mine. So guess you figured that out right? A little history he ran a camaro at orange county. It was a 10.2 ,126 mph car in the 1/4er. Fast enough to be tossed out for not having a cage that we rectified by the next outing. Forgot to mention this was in mid 80's as well As a junkyard untuned car, definitely our first outing.
I also want to apologize for being in a hurry earlier and mis posting the stroke of the 305 350. It is 3.48". Was trying to get out to deer camp.
Anyways glad you like my add ins. They are fun. And aimed at being fun not offensive.
Any engine is what you personally make of it. Find it's faults and work from there each has some and even handicapped they can be worked out.
Nothing said that leads you to believe that I would agree with you yet is there well there is a slight difference in weght yes noticeable only if that is what want to think. 5# to you may be 100 to your wife one can never judge espacially if you are tossing as much weight as you can off the car, That said I would have to say in common sense gee yes there is no difference.
We disagree once again, opinions are like well you get the idea. Truth is whatever you want it to mean to you. Example preachers tell you the truth (in their eyes) that Jesus lives. It is up to you to decide if that is a truth for you. (Note quickest idea that came to mind to help explain so offense was not aimed, nor religion denied, pushed, and or mocked.
As for wasting your time then that was your opinion not the truth.
Imperfections of the 305 are like among everything else full of them. Heard all I wanted to hear about the valves being shrouded. Even read on a post stating something about afr heads and such and by way 83 does have them I gave em to him when we partied (raced at) martin in Mich. So Texas isn't only place I run read a few other threads of mine since joining.
I say play with whatever makes you happy. Yes a stock 350 uses almost same amount of gas as 305 but when the fun comes which do you think does better on mileage. How many grins do you think people have looking at something besides another 350 combo of some kind and what makes you think that I cant run with anything bigger then the class I am in? You yourself are knocking a combo that you say is weak all across the board but yet never even been near one.

O.k onward to the post or drop it here because as stated this is a little rude of us.