Suggest one new GM vehicle that could win an import driver 'back over' to GM

Say me for example. I'd consider anything in the 25 to 35k dollar range. I prefer an ultra-taught chassis albeit still with smooth stable suspension that's able to filter out irregularities in the road, as perfect as can be build quality, great durability/reliability, low wind and road noise, decent power, an impressive stereo and navigation system, and a minimum of a 5-speed automatic transmission.

Is there a GM vehicle out today that meets those conditions that you think would impress somebody like me?

I'm not really looking to buy a new car, but I would be interested for comparison's sake in checking one of these new vehicles out that everybody and their mother on this board is saying is the second coming of GM, and I don't want to go out, see a couple of them, not be impressed and then be told "well of course that one wouldn't impress you... you should have checked out this one".:p

Say me for example. I'd consider anything in the 25 to 35k dollar range. I prefer an ultra-taught chassis albeit still with smooth stable suspension that's able to filter out irregularities in the road, as perfect as can be build quality, great durability/reliability, low wind and road noise, decent power, an impressive stereo and navigation system, and a minimum of a 5-speed automatic transmission.

Is there a GM vehicle out today that meets those conditions that you think would impress somebody like me?

I'm not really looking to buy a new car, but I would be interested for comparison's sake in checking one of these new vehicles out that everybody and their mother on this board is saying is the second coming of GM, and I don't want to go out, see a couple of them, not be impressed and then be told "well of course that one wouldn't impress you... you should have checked out this one".:p


Stick with your import junk.

Some people debate it's styling but I like the Grand Prix. One of our Company Vehicles (Toyota Camry) died an early death so my boss is only buying "Domestic" now. (Funny be it's a German company and he lives in Germany, lol).

We junked the Camry and bought a 05 GP GT. Nice Car - all around. Much better then the Camry. (Although the Camry was a few years old).

I imagine most people here will say look at the G6 because it's got the "Lutz" interior etc etc etc... And I'm sure it's nicer. But for what I do and for taking customers out and having plenty of space and some pizass (sp?) - The GP GT fits the bill for us right now.

Although, after thinking about it; it might only be a 4 speed Auto so that may knock it out. But I and everybody I work with could care less if its a 3/4/5/10 speed. (Reminds me of how high school kids fight over who's bike had more gears - when in reality we always got beat by the standard bike and a boy who just had more muscle, LOL) Anyways, Does the job and provides a nice ride / looks.

Although the looks could be debated (my wife doesn't like the styling of Pontiacs in general), but I do ;).

CTS-V
STS
STS-V
Corvette
Cobalt
Impala
Solstice
GTO

And the GM full-size trucks and SUV's. The imports still can't make a truck worth a damn.

Grand Prix GXP or a G6 GTP. Screw a 5 speed AT. You throw the 5 speed AT out there solely because you know GM's isn't out yet. If the 4 speed gives the same level of MPG and performance as the competiton, who cares?

Anything else?

A >200hp, <2800 lb. Solstice Coupe. THAT would be the second coming of my beloved 240Z! I'd be THERE, with cash. Even with the 170hp motor, if they make it I'm buying it.

How about a CTS 3.6, it'll be about 34K with the automatic without the Employee Discount. I never tried the auto, but with the manual this car was a blast to drive. Great power, and while the suspension is a bit on the luxury side, it handles very predictably. Coming out of a corner, give it gas, the rear steps out a little and then smoothly tucks back in. It feels great compared to my Camaro which tend to snap back after a slide. I believe there is also a Sport package if you'd like. Biggest complaint is it had a foot brake on a manual car, that's just inexcusable. I know some people don't like the CTS interior, but it looked pretty good to me. A little monotone, but of high quality.

Other then the Caddys there are still very few vehicles with 5+ speed autos in GM's lineup. I can only think of Equinox/Torrent and the turbo-diesel trucks. Anything else? :confused: While the GM 4-speeds are good trannies, they absolutely must get the 6-speeds out now.

CTS-V
STS
STS-V
Corvette
Cobalt
Impala
Solstice
GTO

And the GM full-size trucks and SUV's. The imports still can't make a truck worth a damn.

yup, that would be my exact list.

GTO = :metal: (technically the GTO is an import)

Stick with your import junk.
:rolleyes:

My import cars have been FAAAAR less 'junk' than anything domestic I've owned to date. But I'm always willing to give a second and third chance to our domestic car manufacturer, so thus the topic of conversation.

But it's OK to be bitter. Let it alllll out now.:lol:

More cars like the Cobalt SS. Get the buyers while they are young.

Perhaps an AWD Cobalt SS with a turbo to compete with the EVO owners as well.

edit: And for the older crowd...something like the Saturn Auraro (Spelling?) to try to get some Acura buyers back.

GXP :thumb:

Didn't mention it above 'cuz it's already been said by me, ad infinitum, but a ~300hp (or more!), ~3200 lb. (or less!) LS V8 Camaro for ~$30,000 would pry the dollars from my wallet in a heartbeat!

edit: OOPS, I missed the purpose of this thread, you want suggestions for an EXISTING GM vehicle. Hmmm....

Didn't mention it above 'cuz it's already been said by me, ad infinitum, but a ~300hp (or more!), ~3200 lb. (or less!) LS V8 Camaro for ~$30,000 would pry the dollars from my wallet in a heartbeat!

edit: OOPS, I missed the purpose of this thread, you want suggestions for an EXISTING GM vehicle. Hmmm....

:bow:

I have very high expectations for the Solstice/Sky, especially the turbo models. You might want to check one of those out in the next year or two.

Is there a GM vehicle out today that meets those conditions that you think would impress somebody like me?

Nope I dont think anything from GM could impress somebody like you :mad:

Nope I dont think anything from GM could impress somebody like you :mad:

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?:think:

A >200hp, <2800 lb. Solstice Coupe. THAT would be the second coming of my beloved 240Z! I'd be THERE, with cash. Even with the 170hp motor, if they make it I'm buying it.


Didn't mention it above 'cuz it's already been said by me, ad infinitum, but a ~300hp (or more!), ~3200 lb. (or less!) LS V8 Camaro for ~$30,000 would pry the dollars from my wallet in a heartbeat!

edit: OOPS, I missed the purpose of this thread, you want suggestions for an EXISTING GM vehicle. Hmmm....


I like your automotive thought process.

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?:think:

Hrmmm I knew you would say that... ohh well I got nothing against you man, but seriously nothing GM has as far as sadans are really stunning, and class leading. As for every auto maker, The market right now is kinda boring... DCX is kinda adding some spirit, but the cars look aweful in my opinion

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?:think:

The only car I would consider in your price range that would seem to be the type of vehicle you are looking for made by GM brand new is the GP GXP. I am not much on fwd, but I think this is a pretty nice car. If interiors concern you that much, I think there is an interior upgrade coming out for them soon. I am sure Jason E would know much better about it.

CTS, LaCrosse... personally, if I had your income I'd blow all my money on an XLR.

I have very high expectations for the Solstice/Sky, especially the turbo models. You might want to check one of those out in the next year or two.

TT solice = :bow:

Have you seen any projected specs on it yet?

Cobalt SS with the performance package ( LSD and recaro's ) , side bags sunroof and XM ticks in at just above $25K . Been in mine for 3 months now and like more everyday drive it . It handles like a go-kart , and doesnt beat ur a$$ when your just cruising , materials look and feel like quality stuff , it vault solid ....no rattles and surprisingly quiet inside despite the louder than normal exhaust . Check one out , youd be surprised .

Say me for example. I'd consider anything in the 25 to 35k dollar range. I prefer an ultra-taught chassis albeit still with smooth stable suspension that's able to filter out irregularities in the road, as perfect as can be build quality, great durability/reliability, low wind and road noise, decent power, an impressive stereo and navigation system, and a minimum of a 5-speed automatic transmission.

Is there a GM vehicle out today that meets those conditions that you think would impress somebody like me?

I'm not really looking to buy a new car, but I would be interested for comparison's sake in checking one of these new vehicles out that everybody and their mother on this board is saying is the second coming of GM, and I don't want to go out, see a couple of them, not be impressed and then be told "well of course that one wouldn't impress you... you should have checked out this one".:p
Try back in a few more years.

I don't know what kind of vehical you consider a "car", but my parents just bought a '05 Uplander. This thing is impressive and a vast change from normal GM vehicals. If anyone does get one, get the 3.9L. That 3.5L should have never ended up in that thing. Even though the 3.5L is only "rated" at 24mpg on the highway, my mom said she saw 28mpg going through the hills of PA and WV on their way to Harrisburg. This was turn 4k rpms going up the hills with less then 5k miles on the van.

Also, this thing is supper quite and I hate it. You can't even hear the engine driving around so I have to constally be looking at my speed just driving in town to know what I am doing, normally I just listen to the engine and just from its tone. The ride is also very nice, from what I remember. It has been a few months since I last rode in the car, but from what I remember it was very calm even over the roughest roads.

The interior is also amazing. I have never understood how judge "cheap" interiors, but the interior on the Uplander is a vast improvement from the Trans Port my parents have and reminds me of a Corvette interior, from my friend's dad's 2k Vette. One thing that needs to go on the interior is the built in car seats in the middle row. It makes sitting in them for any period of time uncomfortable.

You should go look at one if you like Toyotas. ;)

edit: forgot to add that it only has a 4spd auto, but it really doesn't need it.

When GM offers value for money RWD vehicles with great powertrains, like Commodore, and offer it in wagon/crossover form and ute (as in Aussie definition of ute) people will stop being those ugly Camrys and expensive BMWs and discover the real definition of the term 'value'.

Well maybe they won't stop buying Camrys and BMWs but at least GM will realise there is a niche that needs to be filled. :D

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?:think:

Get a C4.

1) You won't have to save. (Decent price).

2) Look just as good.

3) LT4 / L98 both good engines and can be made to scream. (L98 requires intake swap but nothing major).

4) Size - to me they seem to be more of a "smaller" vette which IMO is better then bigger. C5 seems big, C6 does seem alittle smaller but I don't know how it compares to the C4.

http://www2.saabusa.com/build/step2.asp

It may not be a domestic, but it is a GM.

5spd auto or manual
2.0L 210hp turbo engine
nice interior
nicely tuned suspension
premium appointments and features
DVD Navigation system

I would have to say the cobalt is aimed at the import/tuner crowd.

I've seen a LOT of Solstace's driving around here lately. That car is going to be HUGE! It looks incredible, and keeps getting better every time I see it.

Dan

Say me for example. I'd consider anything in the 25 to 35k dollar range. I prefer an ultra-taught chassis albeit still with smooth stable suspension that's able to filter out irregularities in the road, as perfect as can be build quality, great durability/reliability, low wind and road noise, decent power, an impressive stereo and navigation system, and a minimum of a 5-speed automatic transmission.


Unless I'm missing something, this sounds a lot like a Cadillac CTS. I've put some seat time in them at work, and I was extremely impressed. My only complaint - and it's a mild one - is that it's a bit dull inside. Given the sweet parts hidden underneath, I'll willing to accept lackluster door panels. Cadillac's quality numbers would seem to speak for themselves.

GM vehicle that would win over an import buyer? :think:

The 1st thing that jumps to mid is the Cobalt. For a car of that class, I think the thing's a jewel. I also think the Equinox is a grand slam. Then of course, the G6. All world class stuff for their price range & class. Then of course, Corvette. But someone who wants a Corvette probally isn't window shopping with imported 2 seat sports cars.

Then there's the 2nd tier stuff. The CTS (though personally, I don't think it's worth the price for a V6 car) is otherwise a pretty good suspect. The Impala is a great Camary/Accord competitor in material quality and at least percieved assembly. The Malibu isn't half bad either. It's not something I'd want, but it's still a good car.

Although Buick's LeCrosse is screwed together well and has a pretty good interior, its design is duller than a Lexus. STS' design doesn't have the luxurious impact of BMW, Mercedes, or especially the CTS parked right next to it on the lot. It seems too watered down and generic to be a top dog luxury car. The rest of the car is fine. And although the Grand Prix is perhaps the only midsized FWD sedan I'd reccomend to anyone, it's more because of styling, performance, and value than because I think it's a better made car.

Chrysler is kind of weird (I know you didn't ask). It seems all their cars compete with imports to varying degrees of success. Neons (especially SRT-4s) are 100% accepted by the tuner crowd. The Mitsubishi based Stratus coupe is on par with Honda Accord coupes, Chrysler's minivans picture is next to the word "Minivan" in the dictonary, people actually traded in their Lexus, Infinitys, and even some Beemers for the 300. Yet the 300, Magnum, Viper, Ram trucks, and now the Charger are all distinctvely American in design. Go figure. :confused:


BTW: if you think I'm just being hard on GM, at least that's more positive feedback than I'd give Ford (even though I'm a former Ford guy):
Mustang, F series trucks, and the FiveHundred. That's it! :shock:

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?:think:
I think this is the automotive equivalent to "I'm not racist - I invited black people to my wedding!" Every male with a minimum awareness of cars is saving for a Corvette.

The bottom line is that you knowingly posed a slanted question when you said that the car must have a 5-speed automatic. You're implicit point was that very few GM's are technologically on par with import competition.

Now, imagine the reaction I'd recieve if I went onto a Honda or Acura forum and said that I'm willing to give the brand a chance, but snidely added that I would only consider vehicles with a V8 engine. They'd call me an idiot, and probably worse. They would be correct in their assessment of me too, since I'd be blatently slighting competant V6 offerings from Honda and would be wasting their time to boot.

I think this is the automotive equivalent to "I'm not racist - I invited black people to my wedding!" Every male with a minimum awareness of cars is saving for a Corvette.

The bottom line is that you knowingly posed a slanted question when you said that the car must have a 5-speed automatic. You're implicit point was that very few GM's are technologically on par with import competition.

Now, imagine the reaction I'd recieve if I went onto a Honda or Acura forum and said that I'm willing to give the brand a chance, but snidely added that I would only consider vehicles with a V8 engine. They'd call me an idiot, and probably worse. They would be correct in their assessment of me too, since I'd be blatently slighting competant V6 offerings from Honda and would be wasting their time to boot.

:lol:

Well your opinion of whether I'm 'racist' again GM is yours to formulate, but among many things I didn't think would be necessary to mention:
I've owned just as many domestics as I have imports in my short 7-8 years of owning cars and in addition to the C5/C6 I'm also a big fan of Mustang Cobras, and have been tossing around the idea of grabbing a GMT-900 work truck with the GM card points I've got saved up if the deal is sweet enough.

I absolutely respect Toyota more as a company than I do GM, right now. They along with Honda and to an extent, Nissan (though not so much in the last few years where Nissan slipped into crap quality) are sole reason why GM has stepped up to the plate as determindly as it has today. It's called competition and the heat of it taking away all the customers GM screwed over the last couple of decades with sub-par quality vehicles and sub-par quality customer service is what it took to get them to become customer-oriented again, and not just stock-holder and union-oriented like they'd become comfortable with.

HOWEVER, GM is the home team, and so in the end if I were to pick a company to succeed, I'd absolutely choose GM. Does that mean I'd buy a GM even if I felt it were a poor purchasing decision? Nope. But I hope that some day (and maybe that day is now, which is the point of this thread), I'd be able to buy a GM 4-door mid priced sedan and feel like I made the best decision for my money, not only in value straight off the lot, but in durability, long-term satisfaction, lack of frustration with 'small' issues, good resale value, good service from my dealer, and so on. But that's a gamble, isn't it? The second largest monetary gamble most people including myself make with their money in their lives (second to buying a house). So forgive me if I remain more reluctant than your average GM fan-boy to bet against the historical odds and put my faith immediately back into GM.:blah:

And, BTW... my current car has a 5-speed auto. I just don't want anything less because it'd just feel weird to buy a car 7 years newer with a technically inferior trans. I thought I remembered quite a few GM models having 5-speed automatics, and soon enough quite a few will even have 6-speed autos, right? I've heard the GMT-900 trucks as well as next year's Vette will be a 6-speed auto (RWD) and also remember hearing that GM's colaborative development project with Ford to develop a 6-speed auto for FWD apps had come to fruitation?

GM is the home team, and they are the underdog, and I've grown up with GM cars that were reliable in my family. Thus, I really do favor them intensely. I feel they've got the goods to come at this fight with some incredible cars. They've already shown us they can with some pretty exhilrating concept cars and a couple production cars here and there. They won't win the war unless they bring thier A-game, though. I feel this is thier last chance, and too much hinges on every single car they produce in the next few years. Most of the battle over the next couple of years won't decide if GM defeats Honda/Toyota/BMW/Nissan/etc; this battle will decide if GM stays alive, long enough to destroy the competition coming from within. The innards that cannot find the passion within them to really produce a car that sells itself.

As competition intensifies, consumer options grow. Educated consumer will choose whatever best fits thier needs. They won't necessarily go with what's good for the country, they will spend thier money wisely (appropriate to them). I have to laugh at people who are so biased they don't understand that GM is still playing catch up and will tell you to go F off with your imports. In this country we have freedom of choice and no on has to defend that right and capitalism is survival of the fittest. It is GM's own fault they are in the position they are in now. For letting cars like the Camaro languish, when it's functionality and useability and design lagged the competition of 1989 ( :eek: Nissan 240sx, better interior space, better ride quality, similar handling capabilites, higher quality trappings inside than the Camaro in 2002); for producing 100s of 1000s of crap like the Lumina, when the Accord from the late 80s was better than that POS, crap like the Cavalier that was like a nightmare on elm street compared to the Civic of the EARLY 90's, cars so far behind the competition and so lacking in any aspirational quality. AND they were the dullest cars you've ever seen. Think back on the Malibu of that time, gosh, it's so dull I could barf, all Olds' before the Intrigue and Aurora (and besides the Cutlass), all Buicks (besides Riv, Regal, and Park Ave), the list goes on and on....

I'm sorry to say I still don't see a GM car that 100% irrefutably matches the competition, except for perhaps the Cobalt, though that will be short-lived since the new Civic is coming this year and looks ready to blow away everything else in the class (except for, yet again, in the design department). I agree with Guy that the G6, Cobalt, and Equinox are some of the best cars GM produces, and they have a lot of "world-class" cred in them. However, each one of those cars is still a compromised car, imo. The Equinox has a great powertrain and home-run styling, but for being so large on the outside it's not so on the inside and the interior is very run-of-the-mill and not totally high quality. Cobalt has the makings of an avalanche hit, but interior space is lacking and exterior design is nothing but anonymous and Honda-wannabe. G6 stole its proportions from the Altima, it's a sexy car, with certain wheels only though. It could be so much better with the 3.6L DOHC engine. I heard a G6 accelerating today and it was not a pretty sound, that driver was pushing it hard and that G6 would not stop wailing to be let off of, not the most inspiring and race-worthy sounds. G6's interior also could be much better, and didn't have to be a knock-off of Malibu.

So you see, I am a hardcore GM fan, but I'm also a firm beleiver in freedom of choice, and I don't care what anyone has to say about that. You give me a good reason to buy GM and I will. I'll give you a good reason for GM to shoot for the top: if they don't learn how to match the competition, me and my entire family (4 car-buying siblings) will all move on to imports (most of them already have, but there is hope). If GM wants to hold on to my family and average families all over the country, they will have to represent with some obsessively detailed and passionately crafted cars.

All that said, there are plenty of "good" cars from GM:

STS
CTS
SRX
XLR (awesome)
C6 (awesome)
9-3
new Impala (another drop in the bucket so anonymous)


Exceptional:
Solstice
Sky

And, BTW... my current car has a 5-speed auto. I just don't want anything less because it'd just feel weird to buy a car 7 years newer with a technically inferior trans. I thought I remembered quite a few GM models having 5-speed automatics, and soon enough quite a few will even have 6-speed autos, right? I've heard the GMT-900 trucks as well as next year's Vette will be a 6-speed auto (RWD) and also remember hearing that GM's colaborative development project with Ford to develop a 6-speed auto for FWD apps had come to fruitation?

OK, this rationalization would almost hold up if you weren't saving up for a car with a 4-speed auto*, pushrods, and leaf springs

Well that makes perfect sense! I suppose that's why I'm saving up for a C5 or C6 Vette right now?

I'm know you know these things about the Corvette, so I'm sure you also know that the latest "gee whiz" technology does not necessarily make a better car. I don't believe a 5-speed auto is the make or break threshold for a great car..

*Yes, the Corvette will get a 6-speed shiftable auto for 06

Lets start the import war! :D

on the subject of sub par quality,

I always remember a good Toyota (dealer) comerical, from the Orange county Toyota Dealer..

Where they would sing, "Where You won't get a lemon!" (guys voice now) "I wouldn'ta got a lemon?" singing "Where You won't get a lemon!" (guys voice now) "I wouldn'ta got a lemon?" singing "Where You won't get a lemon at Toyota of Orange"
or something similar to that, and of course refering to the american car manufactures as lemons... now I believe GM will start to turn the tides within the next few years with toyota quality, of course that is my opinion, but their vehicles quality is only getting worse, and GM's are only getting better.

as most of you know my luck with toyotas have been exceedingly poor, where as my father who owns the vehicles is still a happy customer, whats the difference? the small stuff. My dad wants a car to go from here to there, I want to be happy while going from here to there. "Ahh theres the rub?" driver satisfaction is also important to me, and that means that buttons ought to work, and if you think a dash board can look pretty plain(gm) try one that falls apart(toyota) Granted my firebird is missing some buttons but I think they were stolen before I got the car.

OK, this rationalization would almost hold up if you weren't saving up for a car with a 4-speed auto*, pushrods, and leaf springs



I'm know you know these things about the Corvette, so I'm sure you also know that the latest "gee whiz" technology does not necessarily make a better car. I don't believe a 5-speed auto is the make or break threshold for a great car..

*Yes, the Corvette will get a 6-speed shiftable auto for 06

Most of the qualifications I mentioned were not 'make or break', but if a car met or exceeded all of them then it would be more likely to impress me, which is what I was getting at.

And the fact that I want a C5 or C6 has nothing to do with my above qualifications as I would never buy a Corvette with an auto, and I don't care that it has leaf springs (even though they aren't old school leafsprings in the traditional sense) and a pushrod - those work fine and dandy for the Vette obviously based on specs.:)

Would they work fine for a 4-door family or entry level luxury car? Obviously not. Or at least GM doesn't seem to think so.

Russ,
The interior upgrade you mentioned is standard on GTs and GXPs, and part of an option package on a base model. It adds chrome trim around the dash vents, the coolest steering wheel I've ever seen (perforated black leather with silver stitching, polished spokes and a matching shift knob), polished trim on the door pulls, polished door handles and a few other detail changes. It really woke the inside up nice. I still think the design is not as nice as the G6, but its a very sweet addition. Besides, with the GT and the GXP, its all in the drive anyway, especially the GXP :)

Now, if Pontiac would just MARKET the damn cars...no one really knows about the V8 GXPs yet, or that the '06 GTs are blown. And Threxx, I'd add a circle jerk bow for you, but it doesn't seem as appropriate at this juncture :)

I cant believe no one has kicked this guy in the nads yet, is he stupid or just trying to act like an a-hole? Every car I can think of has a direct domestic competitor except for like two maybe.

I cant believe no one has kicked this guy in the nads yet, is he stupid or just trying to act like an a-hole? Every car I can think of has a direct domestic competitor except for like two maybe.

Most any car on the market has at least a handful of competitors from Europe, Japan, and the US. My question was if I was to test drive one car and only one car, which car would I be most impressed by, and then I gave some of the things that I value in a car.

But if you'd like to try and internet kick me in the nads, go ahead. Not sure how it's done, but it'd be interesting to see and worth the pain if you managed to do so just to see.:D

STS' design doesn't have the luxurious impact of BMW, Mercedes, or especially the CTS parked right next to it on the lot. It seems too watered down and generic to be a top dog luxury car.

I dunno. I recently went to a C&D ride and drive event that had an STS take on a BMW 5-series and the STS looked much classier. I guess I still haven't warmed up to the new BMW look.

I cant believe no one has kicked this guy in the nads yet, is he stupid or just trying to act like an a-hole? Every car I can think of has a direct domestic competitor except for like two maybe.

This is a real question a lot of buyers wrestle with. A lot of times it comes to incentives to push someone over to "accepting" a domestic. Right now, I don't know that there's anything that suits my needs from GM either (employee pricing and card earnings included). Not that there aren't some interesting offerings in the pipeline.

The big cars that win over all shoppers IMO are the ones that stick out of the crowd stylistically and elicit emotion. Cars like '05 Mustang, 300, and the New Beetle and PT upon introduction. As improved as a Cobalt is over its predecessor, many won't even end up giving it a look because it still looks too close to a Cavalier and then subsequent assumptions are made. If shoppers do realize the GM product is improved, they can still go with the just as bland Honda that has a better reputation and resale value. Same story with the homely Buicks.

So what does GM have that stands out from the pack? HHR, Solstice, Sky, Corvette, Hummers, Cadillacs...

GM also needs to do a better job of marketing its performance offerings. I don't know if many realize an Impala or MC could be had with a V8. Dodge is doing a tremendous job with their HEMI line in this regard. That's also a drawing point for buyers who don't typically shop a particular brand. You want muscular attitude, you go to Dodge. What are you getting with a Chevy versus a Pontiac? GM's offerings come across as too anonymous, bland and utilitarian. I don't doubt that many believe GM is what you get when you can't bring yourself to pay a chunk more for what you really wanted.

Better (more exciting) product, followed by better (more exciting) marketing and you'll have an easier time answering why to go GM over an import.

BTW: if you think I'm just being hard on GM, at least that's more positive feedback than I'd give Ford (even though I'm a former Ford guy):
Mustang, F series trucks, and the FiveHundred. That's it! :shock:

Focus is already world-class leader... guess it didn't need to be mentioned. :D

Most any car on the market has at least a handful of competitors from Europe, Japan, and the US. My question was if I was to test drive one car and only one car, which car would I be most impressed by, and then I gave some of the things that I value in a car.

But if you'd like to try and internet kick me in the nads, go ahead. Not sure how it's done, but it'd be interesting to see and worth the pain if you managed to do so just to see.:D

Alright well I dont know if you caught it or not but the kicking you in the balls part was not literal, I was simply calling you an arrogant jackass because you came on to a mainly Camaro/GM website and start directly and indirectly badmouthing Gm. I just dont get it, you could have asked the same question without being that way and I would have answered it.

No competition for the Legacy GT... Then again, that's 20% GM already, hehe.

CTS was the closest car in the GM fleet.

Ford and DC had nothing.

-B

i thought thas was the reason people bought the srt-4:confused:

or a v6 mustang :lol:

but if it has to be gm: sky and solstice...end of story

A RWD Sedan that has an appealing style, all the bells and whistles that are in the better cars but come as options.

No competition for the Legacy GT... Then again, that's 20% GM already, hehe.

CTS was the closest car in the GM fleet.

Ford and DC had nothing.

-B

What the hell? I hope that was a type-o