SS vs. 03-04 Cobra

Hey one of my friends has a 2003 cobra really modded so hes out of the question, but the other has a stock 04 mystic cobra. What needs to be done to a 2000 SS to smoke him (1+car lengths).
Thanks

What exactly do you have done to your car so far and.... what types of transmissions on each car.

Also are any of them convertible?

right now i have catbak exhaust and a K&N filter on my car. Not sure what tranny's they have but neither of them is a convertible.

i would say the SS will take the 04 if you can drive.

you say you have the KN filter...you mean just the filter or the intake kit?

i would say your next mod needs to be a lid.

I understand this is my first post on this site so you may not listen to what i say, but the race will definitely be a drivers race. I frequent www.svtperformance.com(great vids), and understand alot about the 03-04 cobras. They are largely underrated at 390/390, are rated @ a 12.9 1/4 mile, and ive personally seen them go 12.6 stock on eagle F1's at atco. Your best bet would be from a dead stop, terminaters pull like animals up top. Let us know how everything turns out!

i would say the SS will take the 04 if you can drive.

you say you have the KN filter...you mean just the filter or the intake kit?

i would say your next mod needs to be a lid.

uhh..the SS is not going to take the cobra if the cobra can drive. those things trap 110-112 stock...and have run as fast as 12.4 stock. from a dig MAYBE..but only if the cobra driver is pathetic..from a roll...the SS is dead.

you will need full boltons to come close to the cobra..probably a cam in order to beat it solidly.

oopss...mis-read the post.

thought he said one was a cobra the other was not...

my bad...

yeah....lid, headers and a cam and you should be well ahead of them...with traction

How fast are them 95ish ones?

uhh..the SS is not going to take the cobra if the cobra can drive. those things trap 110-112 stock...and have run as fast as 12.4 stock. from a dig MAYBE..but only if the cobra driver is pathetic..from a roll...the SS is dead.

you will need full boltons to come close to the cobra..probably a cam in order to beat it solidly.


yeah exactly, someone thinks that a catback and a filter is going to beat a 03 cobra? :rolleyes: They make 425 fwhp. They are low 12 second cars and the only way you can get him from a dig is if he still has the IRS which means bad launch. Either way, if he cant drive his car you might have a chance but i am pretty sure he is just gunna reel you in.

How fast are them 95ish ones?

93 cobras COULD run a high 13, but mostly low 14's. 94-95 a bit higher because they weighed more. 96-98 with a very good driver could hit a mid 13..but they are usually hard to drive due to peaky powerband..and will run high 13's low 14's. 99 and 01 can hit mid - low 13's with a good driver.

to start off, i'm not a huge fan of mustangs.

The only reason cobras are as fast as they are is because they're supercharged...if it was a supercharged SS vs. a cobra, who would win? :p

to start off, i'm not a huge fan of mustangs.

The only reason cobras are as fast as they are is because they're supercharged...if it was a supercharged SS vs. a cobra, who would win? :p


:rolleyes: lame arguement. if the cobra had a TT with a 350000 shot of nitrous and the SS was superchaged, who would win?

They are low 12 second cars and the only way you can get him from a dig is if he still has the IRS which means bad launch.
I think the cobra's stock times drop lower by the day. I haven't seen a STOCK 03-04 cobra run low 12's ever.

I think the cobra's stock times drop lower by the day. I haven't seen a STOCK 03-04 cobra run low 12's ever.

Evan Smith ran it to a 12.4. its in a published article.

:lol:

it's been a LONG time since we honestly heard the "but if you supercharge an LS1..." arguement...

i thought it was finally dead

Evan Smith ran it to a 12.4. its in a published article.
That's a hell of a run. But I'm at the track often and they just aren't pulling times that low(from what I've seen). Don't get me wrong, they are bad a$$ cars and I'm not doubting how fast they are. Is Evan Smith the one who pulled a 12.8 in a stock LS1?

The ones I see at the track run like ass.

I've personally seen a Cobra with K&N Intake, pulley, Bassani catback, tune, and Nitto 555r's run an 11.71

Zach

You're gonna need about 50 rwhp more. The easiest way would be nitrous. Those 03-04 Cobras are no joke. My old room mate bought one, and he hung with me on the street with me on the motor. All he had done aftermarket was an H-pipe. His front bumper stayed on my door to rear quarter panel. On the bottle, it wasn't even close.

ZMAN

That's a hell of a run. But I'm at the track often and they just aren't pulling times that low(from what I've seen). Don't get me wrong, they are bad a$$ cars and I'm not doubting how fast they are. Is Evan Smith the one who pulled a 12.8 in a stock LS1?

yes, same dude. i *think* he also trapped 112. from what ive heard, its very hard to launch a stock cobra because of the IRS. most people probably have no experience launching on it..so your seeing the bad times. what are the trap speeds your seeing at your track? also, whats the elevation?

At the pontiac pro stock superbowl in baytown this past feb(it think it was feb) saw a couple of them running 9's but by this time they were 03 "mustangs" any way it was a mod motor of some form with an aftmarket kenne bell. As far as the "well if you supercharge an ls1" argument the point there is the factory didnt make one

if you go and consider the costs of an ls1 f-body to a 03 up cobra, the cobras are most of the time $10,000 more, ATLEAST. so u cant get mad if the ls1 is slower stock. spend that 10,000 on ur ls1 and you could make him eat your dust.

if you go and consider the costs of an ls1 f-body to a 03 up cobra, the cobras are most of the time $10,000 more, ATLEAST. so u cant get mad if the ls1 is slower stock. spend that 10,000 on ur ls1 and you could make him eat your dust.

true..but i could take a $1000 civic, add a turbo to it..and nitrous..and a jet engine..and blow away that ls1. :rolleyes:

As I stated previously in this thread about who would win if it was a cobra against a supercharged SS...

My point in saying that is that although our f-bodies may be a tad slower stock, it doesn't matter because cobra's already have a power adder.

And thanks for telling me it was a lame argument. I was merely pointing out that the only way ford can make they're mustang's beat us is with a blower.

You're gonna need about 50 rwhp more. The easiest way would be nitrous. Those 03-04 Cobras are no joke. My old room mate bought one, and he hung with me on the street with me on the motor. All he had done aftermarket was an H-pipe. His front bumper stayed on my door to rear quarter panel. On the bottle, it wasn't even close.

ZMAN

Some ls1's run 320 to 330rwhp stock. If your 357 beat him out on the engine alone, all he would need is 20 or 30. I think the Cobra would still win even with 357rwhp in the camaro personally.

As I stated previously in this thread about who would win if it was a cobra against a supercharged SS...

My point in saying that is that although our f-bodies may be a tad slower stock, it doesn't matter because cobra's already have a power adder.

And thanks for telling me it was a lame argument. I was merely pointing out that the only way ford can make they're mustang's beat us is with a blower.


:rolleyes:. its a very lame arguement. you really think ford engineers couldnt build a car capable of beating a lousy 350 hp v8 car if they wanted to? they have a tiny 5.0 engine that makes over 400 hp NA. GM has to use more displacement to get that much hp..so GM sucks. :rolleyes:

not only did they beat us f-body people..they completely destroyed us with that 03-04 cobra. it takes ALOT of mods just to run with a stock one...and then you have to factor in how easy it is to modify that thing to put it out of reach for must of us that dont have deep pockets. that car was a home run for enthusiasts.

i've heard that GM is putting out a new camaro concept this january at an auto show...hopefully we get something that can compete again. looking forward to it very much. :cool:

Some ls1's run 320 to 330rwhp stock. If your 357 beat him out on the engine alone, all he would need is 20 or 30. I think the Cobra would still win even with 357rwhp in the camaro personally.

probably be close..357 rwhp will definatly make it a drivers race..with a SLIGHT edge to the cobra from a roll. for a 1/4 mile from a dig probably the ls1 if evan smith isnt driving.

said by vin1382: so GM sucks. :rolleyes:

anyone else catch that?

I think GM did a splendid job producing the LS1 man. get outta here if you think otherwise.

Of course I'd give credit to ford engineers for producing a 400 hp 5.0 NA block. But I haven't seen it in any street legal car produced by them...oh wait...didn't GM just start putting the LS2 in newer cars that makes 400 hp?

Another thing that's been brought up in here is that the cobra costs an extra $10,000. I think I'd rather have my SS for what I paid. I definitely don't have a deep pocket, but i'm sure anyone with a cobra doesn't have one either...right?

Ahh. whatever, I give up. This argument is going nowhere.

Sorry for wasting your time since my argument has been so extremely lame.

...oh wait...didn't GM just start putting the LS2 in newer cars that makes 400 hp?



I'd be talking about the LT5 before the LS2 :D

-Dustin-

I think the cobra's stock times drop lower by the day. I haven't seen a STOCK 03-04 cobra run low 12's ever.

Agreed. Maybe with Drag radials, exhaust, intake. Def not stock w/ streets

[QUOTE=vin1382]:rolleyes:. its a very lame arguement. you really think ford engineers couldnt build a car capable of beating a lousy 350 hp v8 car if they wanted to? they have a tiny 5.0 engine that makes over 400 hp NA. GM has to use more displacement to get that much hp..so GM sucks. :rolleyes:

since when is a 5.0 tiny? And whos engine has been around the longest, thats right the 5.7 350. Obviously a reason for it.

"not only did they beat us f-body people..they completely destroyed us with that 03-04 cobra. it takes ALOT of mods just to run with a stock one...and then you have to factor in how easy it is to modify that thing to put it out of reach for must of us that dont have deep pockets. that car was a home run for enthusiasts."

I agree they beat GM in 03-04 by not having a "mid-level" sports car like the F-bod to compete with the stangs. Now comparing a 2002 car with a brand new 03-04? Come on. Obviously they are new and improved. The 03-04 cobra "easily" modded is not out of reach by any means. It was a homerun to the Ford name though. I respect that car for sure.

: with a 350000 shot of nitrous

:eek: :shock: :dead:

Agreed. Maybe with Drag radials, exhaust, intake. Def not stock w/ streets

it was actually a 12.3 that Evan Smith ran. it was published in MM&FF magazine when the 03 first came out. so it is POSSIBLE. For most people, it will take at least radials to run that time.

[QUOTE=vin1382]:rolleyes:. its a very lame arguement. you really think ford engineers couldnt build a car capable of beating a lousy 350 hp v8 car if they wanted to? they have a tiny 5.0 engine that makes over 400 hp NA. GM has to use more displacement to get that much hp..so GM sucks. :rolleyes:

since when is a 5.0 tiny? And whos engine has been around the longest, thats right the 5.7 350. Obviously a reason for it.

"not only did they beat us f-body people..they completely destroyed us with that 03-04 cobra. it takes ALOT of mods just to run with a stock one...and then you have to factor in how easy it is to modify that thing to put it out of reach for must of us that dont have deep pockets. that car was a home run for enthusiasts."

I agree they beat GM in 03-04 by not having a "mid-level" sports car like the F-bod to compete with the stangs. Now comparing a 2002 car with a brand new 03-04? Come on. Obviously they are new and improved. The 03-04 cobra "easily" modded is not out of reach by any means. It was a homerun to the Ford name though. I respect that car for sure.

compared to the ls2, it is :D. i just threw that arguement out there for comparitive purposes..its just so dumb to say "ford could ONLY beat GM if it had a supercharger, put the supercharger on the lsX and then see what happens"...

the main point of this thread..is that we just happen to be comparing a older generation car 98-02 ls1 against a newer 03/04 car. so that IS a valid comparison..becuase that was the question being asked :D. For some people that can't afford a stall, gears, suspension, cam, heads, etc(whatever it takes to beat a newer cobra)..it would be out of reach..it just depends on what your willing to spend..and how crappy a driver the cobra driver is..how good the f-body driver is..etc.

this whole thread turned out to be pretty lame. once you have to mod, all bets are off. regardless of the generation arguement, the stock 03/04 cobra has more then enough power to beat a stock ls1 with equal drivers,conditions. to thread starter, race, find out, post results in thread. /thread

when it gets down to modifications???

the SVT cobra that we are all talking about IS modified.

when it gets down to modifications???

the SVT cobra that we are all talking about IS modified.

i don't know what thread you've been reading..but i think the rest of us in this thread are referring to this:

"but the other has a stock 04 mystic cobra. What needs to be done to a 2000 SS to smoke him (1+car lengths).
Thanks"

Please review post #1 in this thread.

You'll need Heads/Cam/Full exhaust to beat the lightly modded ones. You'll need a blower, forged block to hang with the heavily modded ones.

theres some quote that would go good with this thread. something about apples and um ... oranges oh i forget.:shrug:

How fast are them 95ish ones?

I have a 99 z28, mods listed below and raced a 97 svt cobra which was worked, full exhausted intake, short throw, ect. i raced him the week i got the car and was not completly comfortable driving it but pulled on him by a lot in 3rd and missed shifted fourth.

i don't know what thread you've been reading..but i think the rest of us in this thread are referring to this:

"but the other has a stock 04 mystic cobra. What needs to be done to a 2000 SS to smoke him (1+car lengths).
Thanks"

Please review post #1 in this thread.

Yes and he needs about 350-360 rwhp to edge out a stock 03-04 Cobra.

ZMAN

You'll need Heads/Cam/Full exhaust to beat the lightly modded ones. You'll need a blower, forged block to hang with the heavily modded ones.

A forged block huh? Thats funny, there are F-bodies running 10's on the factory block and rotating assembly and some running 11's w/ bolt-ons only. Look how much power is coming out of the naturally aspirated 6.0L blocked LS engines.

Want to out run a SC'd Cobra? Go forced induction too. The STS at low boost on a totally stock LS1 will dyno higher than a Cobra.

I have had no probs beating 4V 4.6L's NA vs NA, it should be the same once you add some positive manifold pressure too.

so a lighter fbody will need more HP than a heavier 03-04 cobra to beat it? :confused:

Ok I have a dog in this fight. At California Raceway in Fontana I was lucky enough to line up against a yellow 03/04 Cobra. I don't know them well enough to tell which year it was. Anyways he ran something like a 13.5 and I would have to find the time slip to tell you exactly.

I have a modded third gen that lays down 304 RWHP and 334RWTQ with TPI and on a Dynojet. Anyways I beat him pretty good even though I did not hook up that well. Part of it was that I had a better R/T plus the better ET combined to make a good kill. I ran something around a 13.0 flat. My best with a good hook up is a 12.73. Could be he was not that good of a driver. ;)

If he ran 13.5 he was a retard. Make no mistake the 03-04 cobra is no joke. Most will run high 12's @ 110 or so stock. Unfortunatly we will need a few mods to keep up. Now if you come accross a not so good driver it might be a bit closer, but they are fast.

so a lighter fbody will need more HP than a heavier 03-04 cobra to beat it? :confused:


No, but where thay can do a simple pulley change and run even quicker....

No, but where thay can do a simple pulley change and run even quicker....


last i checked fbodies can mod too. ;)

Last I checked we were playing catch up to the heavier car still in stock form and most don't leave them stock long.

Thats why I said just go FI and be several car lengths ahead of most instead of a car length ahead with a stock or mildly modded Cobra.

Last I checked we were playing catch up to the heavier car still in stock form and most don't leave them stock long.

Thats why I said just go FI and be several car lengths ahead of most instead of a car length ahead with a stock or mildly modded Cobra.


ok. :shrug:

I have a 99 z28, mods listed below and raced a 97 svt cobra which was worked, full exhausted intake, short throw, ect. i raced him the week i got the car and was not completly comfortable driving it but pulled on him by a lot in 3rd and missed shifted fourth.


The 03/04 cobra is a COMPLETE diffrent animal then the 97 you raced.

I went 12.6@112mph bone stock, on stock F1's, in ~70* air with matching humidity. I ran as fast at 115.8mph in my bone stock '03.
I beat several LS1 F-bodies and two Z06's when the car was stock. In fact, somebody posting in this very thread saw my taillights (twice) in their modded LS1 (small cam, exhaust, DR's) on two passes from a dig. As with any car, a bad driver can negate an obvious advantage.

Very, very, very few stock LS1 F-bodies ever go 12's...despite internet hype to the contrary. The quickest documented time that I know of for an '03/'04 Cobra is 12.3. It was not the MM&FF pass by Evan Smith...that was a 12.4. I'd say, equal drivers, the LS1 is going to be about .5-.7 slower than an '03/'04 Cobra.

And if you're going to compare an FI'd LS1/LS2 to an '03/'04 Cobra, then compare it to a nicely modded bolt-on Cobra, or a KB/Whipple Cobra. KB/Whipple car will make mid-500rwhp with no other mods (supporting fuel mods notwithstanding) and run mid-11's in the 122-124mph range.
S.

last i checked fbodies can mod too. ;)But sometimes it's not enough...eh?
S.

But sometimes it's not enough...eh?
S.


;) :bow:

i needed a driver mod. :lol:

I was merely pointing out that the only way ford can make they're mustang's beat us is with a blower.
That's a very interesting point. Wrong, but interesting. Hell, I beat an LS1 just two days ago from stoplight to stoplight. Oh, and get this. I'm stock and N/A.
Weird.

i needed a driver mod. :lol: I see somethings never change :lol:

I see somethings never change :lol:



just like you and your BS. :lol:


dont comment on things you have no clue about.



sorry,then youd never be able to post. ;)

As I stated previously in this thread about who would win if it was a cobra against a supercharged SS...

My point in saying that is that although our f-bodies may be a tad slower stock, it doesn't matter because cobra's already have a power adder.

And thanks for telling me it was a lame argument. I was merely pointing out that the only way ford can make they're mustang's beat us is with a blower.


Yeah, yeah.....and the only way Chevy can beat Ford is with more displacement. :rolleyes: :no:




Look, a stock Cobra will eat a stock LS1.......period!
End of discussion and end of excuses.

The only way to beat a stock Cobra is to do quite a bit of aftermarket work to an LS1.

On the same token, someone in a Honda can also do alot of aftermarket work, and beat a stock LS1.

.....So then the debate moves into price to mod.

The Honda owner will need to spend half a year's salary to match the stock LS1.

The LS1 owner (though not nearlyas severe as the Honda) is going to need quite a bit of financial investment to match the Cobra.

But then, the Cobra owner can then purchase a $20 pulley, install it in 15 minutes, and smoke you all over again.

No matter how you cut it the Cobra wins.

The IRS hurts it off the line, but like was said already, from a roll, or anything beyond 25-30 feet, your a** belongs to the guy in the Cobra.

You'd fare better going after Mach1s.



Before you start whining that I must be a Mustang owner, see my signature.

this should even things out. ;)


for C5s now but fbody kits will soon follow.


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362816

Yeah, yeah.....and the only way Chevy can beat Ford is with more displacement. :rolleyes: :no:




Look, a stock Cobra will eat a stock LS1.......period!
End of discussion and end of excuses.

The only way to beat a stock Cobra is to do quite a bit of aftermarket work to an LS1.

On the same token, someone in a Honda can also do alot of aftermarket work, and beat a stock LS1.

.....So then the debate moves into price to mod.

The Honda owner will need to spend half a year's salary to match the stock LS1.

The LS1 owner (though not nearlyas severe as the Honda) is going to need quite a bit of financial investment to match the Cobra.

But then, the Cobra owner can then purchase a $20 pulley, install it in 15 minutes, and smoke you all over again.

No matter how you cut it the Cobra wins.

The IRS hurts it off the line, but like was said already, from a roll, or anything beyond 25-30 feet, your a** belongs to the guy in the Cobra.

You'd fare better going after Mach1s.



Before you start whining that I must be a Mustang owner, see my signature.

This post should be put in the running for camaroz28.com most idiotic post of the year award :death:

I forgot 03/03 Cobras are the fastest cars in the world. Quit talking out of your ass. It does not take "quite a bit of financial investment" for an LS1 to match a cobra. Cobras are not gods gift to earth. You act like only cobra owners mod their car :rolleyes:

The LS1 owner (though not nearlyas severe as the Honda) is going to need quite a bit of financial investment to match the Cobra.
I agreed with you up until here. You're definition of "quite a bit of financial investment" might be different than mine, but it doesn't take that much money (in my opinion) to take out a STOCK cobra.

This post should be put in the running for camaroz28.com most idiotic post of the year award :death:

I forgot 03/03 Cobras are the fastest cars in the world. Quit talking out of your ass. It does not take "quite a bit of financial investment" for an LS1 to match a cobra. Cobras are not gods gift to earth. You act like only cobra owners mod their car :rolleyes:The only thing in question in guionM's post is the definition of "significant".
Equally driven, a stock LS1 F-body won't beat a stock '03/'04 Cobra...and I don't care how many magazines or BS internet stories you've read.
S.

The only thing in question in guionM's post is the definition of "significant".
Equally driven, a stock LS1 F-body won't beat a stock '03/'04 Cobra...and I don't care how many magazines or BS internet stories you've read.
S.


I understand that. I don't take stocks in bs internet stories or magazines.


I objected to these things he said:


"No matter how you cut it the Cobra wins." That is rediculous

Then his whole comaprison to a honda was way out there and not on topic.

Then his signficant amount of money mod idea.

It was a crap post.

I post a ton over on svtperformance, have a friend with an 04, realize that stock for stock the 03/04 is quicker. That wasn't the point of my post to the other guy.

I objected to these things he said:


"No matter how you cut it the Cobra wins." That is rediculousA more appropriate comment might have been, "stock vs. stock and modded vs. modded, the Cobra quite often wins."
Then his signficant amount of money mod idea.Again, his definition of significant might differ from your own.
IMO, it would take intake and exhaust and possibly gears on an M6 car and probably those mods and a stall on an A4 car to hang with a well-driven stock Cobra.
We've all seen the stories of stock '03/'04's Cobras losing to mostly stock LS1's. In a well-driven car, that won't happen. I've beaten many LS1 F-bodies at the track and on the street.
Modded, things can change.
S.

This post should be put in the running for camaroz28.com most idiotic post of the year award :death:

I forgot 03/03 Cobras are the fastest cars in the world. Quit talking out of your ass. It does not take "quite a bit of financial investment" for an LS1 to match a cobra. Cobras are not gods gift to earth. You act like only cobra owners mod their car :rolleyes:

Umm, ok he is right about the significant money. 4k to 5k
will get you there. Your reaction is a little whacko.

Umm, ok he is right about the significant money. 4k to 5k
will get you there. Your reaction is a little whacko.


Umm. Ok you are wrong about the significant money. It takes no where near 4K to 5K to match the performance of a stock cobra. Your reaction is a little wrong.

Funny, that ****ty IRS and those ****ty goodyear F1's netted me 1.7 60' times. I've seen just as many bad drivers in LS1's as I have in '03 cobra's. I've seen modded LS1's run 14's, doesn't mean the cars are slow though. Get the point? As for the supercharger and cubic inches excuses. You're making excuses which probably means your still going slow. Run what ya brung and quit crying on the internet. The real racers are tired of hearing your excuses. :)

Umm. Ok you are wrong about the significant money. It takes no where near 4K to 5K to match the performance of a stock cobra. Your reaction is a little wrong.

if you count nitrous..then yea. to run a 12.3 or 12.4 @ 110-113mph, besides nitrous..how much money would it take to run that trap speed/time? can bolt on only ls1's run 113?

if you count nitrous..then yea. to run a 12.3 or 12.4 @ 110-113mph, besides nitrous..how much money would it take to run that trap speed/time? can bolt on only ls1's run 113?


Yes bolt on LS1's can run 110-113 mph. There have been two guys John Brown and TJ from my local F-body board (www.easternfbody.com) that have ran 11.25 stock internal. (This is not the NORM, both of them were the fastest SI LS1 guys in the country) Another guy has ran 12.4's with full exhaust, and a converter and lid. There are a TON of guys over there that have went far beyond mid 12's at 110-113 SI. See for yourself.

The price all depends on if you can do the work yourself, and where you buy your parts from. Obviously Long tubes, an a converter and lid is mpt 4-5K

Even exluding N20, It takes no where near 4-5 K as a previous poster stated to match the best stock Cobra times.