98 3.8 question

Hi guys, im new to this board, i usually post on LS-1 but due to the recent rebuilding ive been lost on who to ask. I currently have a 99 LS-1 Trans Am but in october i will be comuting back and forth to tech school. Just by chance i stumbled upon a Camaro RS with a 3.8. Im a little leary of it, he wants 4 grand, the car has t-top, power windows/locks/ect., 128000 miles. Seem like a good deal to you guys? at any rate im a performance junky... how well do these things perform, i know there no replacement for LS-1 power but are they still powerful enough to have some fun with? I have no plans to sell my trans am but im thinking that this may be a good investment for school. Just so i can get an idea, what dose a stock 3.8 run in the quarter?

Stock anwhere from a mid 15 to a mid 16.

With just a whisper lid, K&N, crappy flowmaster that was on it already, and a mod that I designed for the 3.8L I had a project firebird (01 5speed) running 14.8@95. Thats with stock 3.23 gears, non limited slip, no suspension, street tires ect ect. We were working on getting it into the 13's but the car was sold before we had a chance.


If you do them right they act a lot like a 98 and under GT mustang. Just be smart.
2 things to remember:
Don't descreen the MAF
Don't use 3 inch exhaust.

There is nothing wrong with running a 3" exhaust if you have supporting mods.

- Justin

I drove my brothers (formerly mine) 98 V6 Camaro yesterday for the first time in a while and it wasn't quite as fast as I remembered. I wouldn't call it a fun amount of power. I am not sure if the 98+ RSs received 3.42s (over 3.08s if it's an auto) but if they did, that would make it a little bit quicker. Reliable motor but look at the dyno numbers around 165rwhp on the 3.8 to around 300rwhp on the LS1. Roughly 55% of the power. :(

Personally, I'd get it because it has t-tops.

Sounds exactly like my car, I would personally out of the experience and maintence of my car, atleast try to talk him to $3,500 because you're getting ready step into the field of repairs... Not that the motor is unreliable but there's so much stuff I had to replace in mine it wasn't even funny... If it's an A4 coming from that year, prepare for a transmission rebiuld, the P1870 code is a PITA... costed me $1,200 and that's just ONE of the many things I had to deal with on a high milage car...

3.8's are nice and all but honestly out of my experience, if you're looking for a TRUE COMMUTER CAR, you shouldn't be looking at these car's with high milage unless they can pretty much list a good maintance record. $4k could be a good downpayment into something a weebit more reliable... Thats just my oppinion and it's not here or meant to offend anyone... There's just too much out there that's in good shape now these days...

I drove my brothers (formerly mine) 98 V6 Camaro yesterday for the first time in a while and it wasn't quite as fast as I remembered. I wouldn't call it a fun amount of power. I am not sure if the 98+ RSs received 3.42s (over 3.08s if it's an auto) but if they did, that would make it a little bit quicker. Reliable motor but look at the dyno numbers around 165rwhp on the 3.8 to around 300rwhp on the LS1. Roughly 55% of the power. :(

Personally, I'd get it because it has t-tops.

RS's didn't recieve 3.42's, the package code Y87 recieved 3.42's and dual outlets giving them a tad more pep than a regular V6... However, Y87 package tended to appear more on RS's than the average Camaro...

There is nothing wrong with running a 3" exhaust if you have supporting mods.

- Justin


Unless your suporting mods have you over 300 HP.... then yes there is.

Unless your suporting mods have you over 300 HP.... then yes there is.

Not...really... I heard one with a HiFlow Cat. Full 3" Catback with a Resonator and it had almost absolutely no rasp!... He said he gained 20 HP from the dyno...

It didn't sound like a V8, but it wasn't your silent six either... I liked it...

Don't use 3 inch exhaust.


how come?

Just be smart.
Don't descreen the MAF


That's some good advice right there! :thumb:

because you're getting ready step into the field of repairs...
That ain't no joke! Seems like I'm always "playing" with my 3.4. It's a '95 with 163,000 on it, and I'm still racking up miles. Seems like I'm always hearing new noises or feeling weird thumps...

The reason behind the exhaust is a long drawn out one which I do not care to get into. For every one person that actualy understand what I say and belives it 20 more come back with ("well XXXX put 3 inch on and he gained from it on a dyno"). One day people will understand that peak HP doesn't mean anything. They will however understand that exhaust velocity is effected by pipe diamiter as well as restictions. When people do this it will be a happy place. Untill then however I will only say this. The answer is out there, think for yourself and don't just follow the heard and you will find it.



But consider this. If 3 inch worked best for V6's then why don't all V8's run 4 inch cat back? And why does magnaflow (who knows a lot more about exhaust then ANYONE on these msg boreds) design and sell a 2.5 inch V6 system? Did they do it because they thought it would slow you down? No.

I'm no designer of exhaust systems and I don't have a degree in fluid dynamics and exhaust flow...


but people seem to show nothing but gains with 3 in catbacks on v6s...

(btw how was the project car you had, have a 5-speed and 3.08s, did you guys swap them in?)

as to the original poster...


I think its a good car... no speed demon, but I suggest get a 5-speed, any car that is rwd and has enough power to break the rear wheels loose can be fun to drive and race a little.


there are some problems with a rear main seal leaking on the 3.8L but I say its a 1 in 15 thing wiht higher mileage 3.8Ls from what I read, maybe not even that bad.

As for everything else... just like any other 4th gen f-body.


If you could, I would focus on getting a 99+ with tubular manfolds. Makes plug changes easier.

again. Gains don't matter. take a car that gained 10 peak, and a car that gained 5 peak and run them. The car with less power can beat the other. Why? Because peak HP means nothing at all. it's not what you have, it's where you have it. Large exhaust systems do NOT come in untill much higher in the RPM band. This is why cutouts placed near the motor slow people down. unless your shifting at 6500 + RPM in ech gear you are going to do MUCH better with a correctly matched ehaust diameter.



I think it's best sumed up like this

"I'm no designer of exhaust systems and I don't have a degree in fluid dynamics and exhaust flow". but if you did, you would understand exactly what I am talking about and change your mind.

I have worked VERY closely with some very smart people. I have learned A LOT about exhaust and have put it to good use trying to help others. one day when I have my shop set up and hopefully my own dyno I am going to prove this argument once and for all. And I am 100% sure that in the end I will be able to show that unless your pushing at least 275 to the wheels, your going to be doing better with a good flowing 2.5 inch cat back.

again. Gains don't matter. take a car that gained 10 peak, and a car that gained 5 peak and run them. The car with less power can beat the other. Why? Because peak HP means nothing at all. it's not what you have, it's where you have it. Large exhaust systems do NOT come in untill much higher in the RPM band. This is why cutouts placed near the motor slow people down. unless your shifting at 6500 + RPM in ech gear you are going to do MUCH better with a correctly matched ehaust diameter.



I think it's best sumed up like this

"I'm no designer of exhaust systems and I don't have a degree in fluid dynamics and exhaust flow". but if you did, you would understand exactly what I am talking about and change your mind.

I have worked VERY closely with some very smart people. I have learned A LOT about exhaust and have put it to good use trying to help others. one day when I have my shop set up and hopefully my own dyno I am going to prove this argument once and for all. And I am 100% sure that in the end I will be able to show that unless your pushing at least 275 to the wheels, your going to be doing better with a good flowing 2.5 inch cat back.


I understand that big flow isn't always the best thing on a motor....


but your are missing the point, I can give a rats ass on dyno numbers for v6s and what gains they have.

I am going form REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE at the track. I am willing to say EVERYONE that upgraded from 2.5 in. to 3 in... runs better times.

peak power, less power, whatever power.... in the end alot of us are worried about what gets us to the end fo the 1/4 mile faster. And 3 in... seems to do that for v6s.


I do agree, peak numbers aren't most important. But I will argue that 3 in exhaust helps 3.8Ls...


and even to a lesser extent, 2.75 catback really helped out my 3.4L alot too...

take a car. Buy a 3" magnaflow V8 cat back and a 2.5 V6 magnaflow cat back. Install and test them both in the same day and see what you come up with. "real world" means nothing. You can't argue scientific fact with racing conditions that are out fo your control. You are missing the point. I never said that you can't gain from 3 inch. but the gain you see with not be the max that you can get if you run a correctly tuned exhaust system.


again. If bigger was so much better why don't all V8's have 4 inch cat backs on?

take a car. Buy a 3" magnaflow V8 cat back and a 2.5 V6 magnaflow cat back. Install and test them both in the same day and see what you come up with. "real world" means nothing. You can't argue scientific fact with racing conditions that are out fo your control. You are missing the point. I never said that you can't gain from 3 inch. but the gain you see with not be the max that you can get if you run a correctly tuned exhaust system.


again. If bigger was so much better why don't all V8's have 4 inch cat backs on?



Real world means nothing?

You can do whatever scientific calculations you want in a scientific enviroment, and invent wonderful things that work great like the opti-spark(works great in a lab, in real life, unreliable)

I'll stick to what gives me results.


I already said bigger isn't always better... BUT 3" on a v6 is what is producing numbers out of v6s. You cannot argue those facts, screw dyno numbers peak numbers, whatever I am talking about track times.



here is a thought, how come my car ran consistant 14.7s with open pipe after the CAt, and open intake. While your car with intake and 2.5 in exhaust ran a "best" of a 14.8.


and before you pull the "because you pulled the drivebelt off crap"

I ran 14.4-14.5s with the drivebelt off...

I'm not going to argue with you. your getting so far beyond the point that I can't even see it any more. Now your just getting nowhere.

ok then we will just agree that 3" exhaust works on 3.8L v6s...

:no:

Another exhaust thread gone horribaly wrong... and it wasn't even intended for exhaust...

I'm going 2.75" or 3" if I get heads and cam... staying 2.5" you might aswell just stay stock...

ignorance is a powerful and harmfull thing. Again, just because you claim that it works doesn't make it so. If everyone said that castration would make you faster because it did them would you take up the knife? I sure hope not. Don't do the same on exhaust flow.

http://www.magnaflow.com/07techtips/faq/question10.asp


Like I said, the answers are out there. You just have to be your own mind and deside to actualy listen to them.

ignorance is a powerful and harmfull thing. Again, just because you claim that it works doesn't make it so. If everyone said that castration would make you faster because it did them would you take up the knife? I sure hope not. Don't do the same on exhaust flow.

http://www.magnaflow.com/07techtips/faq/question10.asp


Like I said, the answers are out there. You just have to be your own mind and deside to actualy listen to them.


Your missing the point, its not my claim... I don't have a 3 in catback...

BUT everyone who has put 3 in exhaust on there v6s only showed better times.


Who am I going to believe?

A joe schmo that could give a rats ass what I have on my car... but gives suggestions on whats been working for him. And there are dozens of those joe schmos...



Or some company that designed a ****ty exhaust system, realized its selling like crap, so they decided to right a FAQ, so they could lose less money on the crappy exhaust system the built.




We are talking v6s, not v8s, you forget, almost every aftermarket performance part company does not spend one cent on R&R for v6s.

The fact that you take up for the 3 inch only furthers my point that you will sway what ever way the wind blows. Your a sheep following the heard.


Like I said. You WILL gain over STOCK with a 3 inch. You will however gain MORE with the correctly tuned exhaust system.

Your right. This is a V6 and not a V8. That’s the smartest thing that you have said to date. So why run a V8 exhaust on a V6? Contradictions are not your friend.


Magnaflow engineers know more then you, I and everyone else on this forum put together. Read the FAQ, it supports my exact statements. Read any good quality Exhaust thread such as http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215779&highlight=exhaust+theory and see how much you follow.


Your also wrong that aftermarket companies do not to and R&D (BTW it's not R&R). A lot of companies do, magnaflow does for one. The company that I started which will carry a lot of V6 parts does a LOT of R&D. I have been working on one part for over 2 years to get it right. I'm also working on a better TB for the unlucky ones with the fly by wire along with systems to bolt on a good (unlike the crappy RK sport) super charger. I have been doing V6 projects for over 2 years now. My companies name will be well known to the V6 people within the next 5 years. I have no reason to try and slow people down with false information. My goal is to give people the VERY best setup possible. When that set up calls for a 3 inch exhaust it will have it. until then you and everyone like you are only shooting yourselves in the foot.

Thats nice and all...



still doesn't stop the fact that the v6s with 2.5 catbacks are slower then the v6s with 3 in catbacks...


So are you trying to say the exhaust on a y87 v6 is the top of the line, no improvements can be made?


PS its not a v8 exhaust, its a 3 in... exhaust if I had a supra and ran 3 in exhaust wouldn't be calling it 3 in exhaust would I?

Like you stated... its great your company is out working to make great things for v6s...


but noticed you listed every product for the v6 being a "half assed failed" product. That why I trust what works in the field and isn't just sold.

Only companies that put serious effort in to our v6s, are ones that had roots with v6s... Like HPtuners(keith for awhile was fastest v6), abbot racing, popular v6er's dad's speed shop...

It is a V8 exhaust. Borla, magnaflow, Loudmouth ect ect ect are all designed to fit either LT1's or LS1's. Magnaflow has a V6 specific cat back but it's ignored.


again, you totaly miss the whole point. Stock exhaust sucks. Your confusing stock systems and pipe diameter. Power comes from freeing restrictions while MAINTAINING velocity. stock is restrictive thats why you replace it with free flowing parts. 3 inch is too big and kills the velocity and thermal ability. Thats why what you want is a free flowing system that is tuned to your motor. but again, you simply choose to ignor what is being said and only hear what you like. You keep adding your own thoughts in there are complete garbage. your thinking will only keep you from running to the very best of your ability. same EXACT theory goes into why people who throw a massivly large throttle body on a mostly stock car show a slight peak gain but actualy kill low end and track times. Same idea.

Guess your right...

everything I am doing is wrong and haven't experienced any results worth a damn :(

Playing the Drama queen will not make me feel sorry for you. You want to ignor the simple facts that I am giving you and try to confuse others with false claims and arguments that have nothing to do with the points being made. I will not be so easily diverted as others might.

The point your missing is very very simple

any quality cat back 2.5"-3" will show a gain over stock. The point is tuning your exhaust system correctly to your own car for the optimal gains. This is done by many many many factors. One of which is pipe diameter. Get rid of every bit of restriction that you can. Cats, sharp bends, mufflers ect. Then tune the diameter and length to best suit your power and RPM band. Too low and you peak early and don't make power. too high and you never reach enough RPM to make use of it. Thats when you get best power that you cna pull from your motor.

Not trying to make you feel sorry...

just stating the people who have gone up to 3 in exhaust are the ones showing the best gains on average intake/exhaust v6s...

not sure what people are doing in labs, and don't care... most people don't they want results.

doubt there is one v6er out there interested in the optimum flowing exhaust that gives them a 4 hp gain over a standard 3 in catback.

when the 3in catback is cheaper, and more availbible.

your still playing the HP card.... It's not a HP game. once you start to realize this then it's finaly going to sink on. HP means NOTHING. you can have 500 HP and still get beat my a 450 HP car of the same motor and mods. I say once more. It's not how much you have, it's where you have it. If you understood that then you would be understanding most of what I am telling you already.

What I am saying is I know its not a hp game...



IT HAS NOTHING TO DO ABOUT HORSEPOWER!


see now will you quite saying all I am talking about is peak hp... I don't car about hp, if I did probably woudl have dynoed my car by now. I know you are trying to get into the whole thing that I don't understand peak hp means nothing blah blah blah... I understand the concept, its "the supra problem"(has 1200 hp but still runs 12s)

I probably understand it more then most, I run different exhaust setups for different racing(drag, vs. autocross, vs. roadrace)

I coudl give a rats ass what hp people have... I am interested in times.


everytime I talk about gains I talk about better times.



ITS A FACT v6s run better times with 3' catbacks, then 2.5. We are not talking about my car or anything to do with my car. We are talking about dozens fo v6s on the v6 boards.

then the burdon of proof is on you. Like I said. Take a 2.5 inch cat back to teh track, run it and then swap out a 3 inch cat back of the same company, the same day, at the same track and see what happens. If by your logic it will work better, then how come your not telling all the V8 guys that they would run better with 4 inch exhaust? Surely you do not think that the 350/346 CI requires the same pipe diameter as the V6's?

so you say that it runs better, then prove it. I'm not talking stock exhaust VS 3 inch. I am talking aftermarket 2.5 inch cat back VS aftermarket 3 inch cat back on the same car. you up for it?

then the burdon of proof is on you. Like I said. Take a 2.5 inch cat back to teh track, run it and then swap out a 3 inch cat back of the same company, the same day, at the same track and see what happens. If by your logic it will work better, then how come your not telling all the V8 guys that they would run better with 4 inch exhaust? Surely you do not think that the 350/346 CI requires the same pipe diameter as the V6's?

so you say that it runs better, then prove it. I'm not talking stock exhaust VS 3 inch. I am talking aftermarket 2.5 inch cat back VS aftermarket 3 inch cat back on the same car. you up for it?

of course you know I am not going to go spend $600 on my car just to make a point swaping out exhaust systems. not even sure I spent $600 on modifications on my car in total.

how about you get me times of cars with 2.5: catbacks, and I start getting what times people with 3 in catbacks have run.

That or you can buy me the exhaust systems I'll install them on my car, run them, log them with HPT, and compare them for ya :)

as for now...

best I can do.

http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=25&t=007217

Liek I said, the burdon of proof is on you. Your the guy with the V6, your the guy sticking up for the 3 inch system, your the guy that is going against scientific formula, engineers and year upon years of testing that says your wrong. It's up to you to prove yourself right, not me.


BTW, that thread will NOT get you the information that you need. posting that there is like going to paris and telling them that french food is not as good as american food.


There was already a VERY good post there that was totaly ignored by 99% of the members.

Liek I said, the burdon of proof is on you. Your the guy with the V6, your the guy sticking up for the 3 inch system, your the guy that is going against scientific formula, engineers and year upon years of testing that says your wrong. It's up to you to prove yourself right, not me.


And I say right back...


you do not race v6s you have not been around them so how the hell coudl you know what they can and cannot do? I'm not coming in and telling you about lt1s... because I don't have too much experience with them.

hell earlier in this thread you claimed you worked with a 5-speed with 3.08s, which is not possible and commonly known among v6ers, unless you guys swapped in something which woudl be retarted.

Never claimed to be an expert, just relaying what I have seen in the last 7 years of racing v6 f-bodies.


I think the problem is you focus on what "the experts" say... which I normally woudl agree... but unfortuneatley no experts waste their time with proper research on v6 f-bodies because their is no money in it. And I trust "real world data" over the research on a platform that has nothing to do with me.

I have been working with V6's for going on 3 years. If not for the fact that our project car was sold we would have it in the 13's by now with hardly anything at all done to it. I have for a long time been working on things for the 3.8's, you have to approach it a little bit different then the V8's. The power difference requires you to change your thinking just a little. There is more to be gained in areas that are not as popular on the V8's.

Once I get my shop up and running, one of my first project cars is going to be another 3.8 project car. I have a lot of luck with then and want to rival the fastest NA 3.8. I have been inside and around 3.8's several times. I have changed 3 V6 fbody motors. How many have you changed? I have developed one very nice performance part for the 3.8's that netted us a .33 ET gain. I am also working on several other ideas as mentioned before in this thread. All of this is on top of my 5+ years as an auto tech where I work daily on many cars including a lot of GM's. I have a certificate for completing a seminar for "GM engine performance II" which covers engine systems for GM. So yes, I think I have this pretty well covered. As I said, Pay attention in the years to follow and you will see what I mean.

BTW, if you want to kill about an hour and educate yourself.. feel free. http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=006136#000006

All the answers are all collected in that thread. It was many months ago. It will either change your mind like I have been trying to or you will just be like teh rest of the missinformed. We had 2 of the oldest members on that site convinced. Do you want to be one of them?

How was your project car "almost in the 13s n/a"

It ran a 14.8.

I never said that it was.. I said that it would have been by now. Actualy we had it at 14.6 but the clutch was toast. With the spec 2 that we were going to install and a set of DR's along with the 3.73's we should have been right at the 13 mark. But thats besides the point since the car was sold before it could be done. Over 100 track passes and over 60K miles on the stock clutch was just way way too much. On the 14.8 run the clutch wasn't really healthy either. It was just masked by cool weather. In the summer it would slip forever. ..

well thats nice but like I said interested in real world numbers not theorys...

With your claim I can make the same claim... then I am going to have the fastest internatlly stock v6 n/a...

I mean little G's time is only 8/10ths away...

all I need is a better clutch, gears, and drag radials...



btw... notice how the population of v6s is all saying they had better results with 3" catbacks?

No, they are saying that they went from flwmaster to a real cat back and showed improvment. Like I said on FBV6 i'm not suprised. Your not going to prove a thing from your post. Again. Same car, same company, same track, same day running the 2 cat backs is the only way that anyone will ever know.

I read that long thread, HBHRacing, it was quite the read. Lots of info, Im inclined to beleive it all to. I would like to see that comparison though. but good info, I might have to follow it when I get a new exhaust.

I read that long thread, HBHRacing, it was quite the read. Lots of info, Im inclined to beleive it all to. I would like to see that comparison though. but good info, I might have to follow it when I get a new exhaust.


Thank you. This is the exact responce I am looking for. Interesting, thought provoking and something that might be used later on. Like I said. I don't care what people do, I just want them to have the information and to deside for themselves what to do with it. Even if they deside to go with 3 inch if they still understand why the 2.5 will work better I will be fine with that. but honestly, 95% of you guys are clueless. your just following blindly because it's the "popular" thing to do. While gong with 3 inch might make you popular and not have people call you names. That doesn't mean that it's the best thing.

I just give up... :no:


how about this fact.

14.4 is faster then 14.8

$100s less was invested on the car that rant he 14.4( then the car that ran the 14.8. and weight reduction other hten the Jack/spare was not a factor.

I found my new favorite quote. :D

I just give up... :no:


how about this fact.

14.4 is faster then 14.8

$100s less was invested on the car that rant he 14.4( then the car that ran the 14.8. and weight reduction other hten the Jack/spare was not a factor.


Thats great.. totaly irelivent but still great. We hit 14.8 with less then 400 in work and on a slipping clutch. Not a bad price to pay for beating up on 98 and under GT mustangs and 99+ mustangs that can't drive.

I wish our track wasn't loacted in a damn swamp whre it's always in the 70+% humdity range :cry:

Thats great.. totaly irelivent but still great. We hit 14.8 with less then 400 in work and on a slipping clutch. Not a bad price to pay for beating up on 98 and under GT mustangs and 99+ mustangs that can't drive.

I wish our track wasn't loacted in a damn swamp whre it's always in the 70+% humdity range :cry:

My car did the 14.4 with $0, and I MEAN $0 in mods, down to the showroom tires with 37,000 miles on them. and my track is located in a swamp as well, (its wetlands between orlando and the east coast, where OSW is located.)

again. Thats great, but irelivent. My LT1 is a full second faster then you. that must mean that I am right after all. 13.5 is faster then 14.4 right?

And trust me. Thats no swamp. Come to louisiana, I'll show you a swamp. I was at the track last night. 85% humidity and just shy of 90 degrees.

Thats great its an lt1.... You also have abotu a $1k into it... and I think I might get into the low 14s, high 13s this fall... on the tail of your lt1.

won't make any claims though till I do it. :)



so thats a real swamp?

hasn't rained in 3-4 days so its been kinda dry.

right now its 87* 70% humidity...

http://www.weather.com/weather/local/32828?from=yest_topnav_undeclared

you should see when it rains...


there about 5 different places to go on airboat rides and pet gators withing 10 min of our track. Its in a wonderful town called "bithlo"

you have never head of the swamps of Louisnana?? My city is 18 feet BELOW sea level. When it sprinkles here it floods. It also doesn't help that it rains almost every day.

Right now at 7PM the weather says. 88 degrees (feels like 94 degrees) with 60% humidity (it will get much higher as the night goes on). I actualy wish that I the track was open today. much better weather them lastnight was.

Actualy I have about 5 grand into my car. 90% of it being the 12 bolt and very expensive and heavy driveshaft. Both of which are slowing me down. I just like to plan for the future and upgrade before I actualy break something. I could have spent a lot less and gone a lot faster but when I drop teh clutch at 4 grand on a set of slicks I want to know that it will make it past the 60 foot mark.

so you are below sealevel gives you a better DA...


not saying you don't have swamps but its the same **** at OSW too... So don't use it as an excuse about why the v6 you had ran slower.

as of 9pm its 85* and 67% humidity... pretty much the same as you. Usually higher himidity but it hasn't rained for a few days.

DA doesn't start really effecting you until you start getting above 4-5000ft anyway. here in MI, the average DA is 2000-3000ft, but the dyno correction factor is still only 1.03-1.05. In CO, where the DA averaged 9000-11000, the dyno correction was usually between 1.18 and 1.23. HP loss goes up exponentially as elevation increases. I'm sure you two in FL and LA rarely see a DA really worth mentioning.

I'm gonna be honest... this thread is hilarious. As for the exhaust arguement... I'm not gonna even get into it, well maybe I will a little. I have 3", i love it, i beat people who have 2.5" and no not flowmaster. That's beside the point though. If you are modding the 3.8L and plan on doing more than just intake and catback exhaust you should get 3". I'm getting a cam by the end of the year and I know for a fact that my header-hiflowcat(3")-3" catback will do much better than 2.5" if it doesn't already (and i think it does).

As for the 4" question with v8s, I find that alot of people would do 4" if it weren't such a PITA to get it to fit. I also know many people who do 2.5" true duals and sometimes 3" true duals on thier v8s since 4" is too hard to fit.

But that's just my real world experience and since that doesn't mean anything I'll let you two continue your arguement :)

I'm gonna be honest... this thread is hilarious. As for the exhaust arguement... I'm not gonna even get into it, well maybe I will a little. I have 3", i love it, i beat people who have 2.5" and no not flowmaster. That's beside the point though. If you are modding the 3.8L and plan on doing more than just intake and catback exhaust you should get 3". I'm getting a cam by the end of the year and I know for a fact that my header-hiflowcat(3")-3" catback will do much better than 2.5" if it doesn't already (and i think it does).

As for the 4" question with v8s, I find that alot of people would do 4" if it weren't such a PITA to get it to fit. I also know many people who do 2.5" true duals and sometimes 3" true duals on thier v8s since 4" is too hard to fit.

But that's just my real world experience and since that doesn't mean anything I'll let you two continue your arguement :)

Completly wrong. if you followed the links to FBv6 you would see why. Unless your putting out over 275 HP from your cam swap. your just totaly ignoring fact and going with teh popular choice because everyone tells you that it's right. In another life you were probably a lemming.




as for the track. The track itself is 12 feet above sea level. it's a little over an hour from where I live. It's a GREAT track. Low altitude, great prep ect. Just in the summers no one does **** because of the heat. Especialy considering that everything runs during the evening when it's really sticky out. When I was there for teh thunder racing shootout it was in the morning/afternoon. it was like 80 something degrees and only 40% humidity. It would have been perfect weather. Thats why the best time to run there is in the dead of winter. It's still like 50 or 60 degrees but usualy won't get past 70% humidity. hopefully this september I will be making a trip to an fbody meet at ATCO. I hear they have a great track and great weather. It will be interesting to see how I do up there.

Completly wrong. if you followed the links to FBv6 you would see why. Unless your putting out over 275 HP from your cam swap. your just totaly ignoring fact and going with teh popular choice because everyone tells you that it's right. In another life you were probably a lemming.

Actually I am expecting more than that because Lance from Abbott racing has 271rwhp from his heads and cam stuff and I'm planning on a much bigger cam. I'll be getting heads a little while after the cam but I plan ahead with my mods.

As for the track talk, the track Eric (mustangeater) was talking about, OSW, is a terrible track, LOL! Worst prep ever and even professional drivers have a hard time getting good launches down. I wish we had a better track :(

Completly wrong. if you followed the links to FBv6 you would see why. Unless your putting out over 275 HP from your cam swap. your just totaly ignoring fact and going with teh popular choice because everyone tells you that it's right. In another life you were probably a lemming.


You're doing a great job building and educating your customer base!

Customers love being told they're idiotic lemmings who know nothing ;) Makes them feel confident that your arrogance was the best choice for them afterall!

Just something to keep in mind when you get your shop 'up and running'

You're doing a great job building and educating your customer base!

Customers love being told they're idiotic lemmings who know nothing ;) Makes them feel confident that your arrogance was the best choice for them afterall!

Just something to keep in mind when you get your shop 'up and running'


It really doesn't matter to me. If they base buying products on what happens during a technical post then I wouldn't want them buying from me anyway. Me telling him that he is wrong (didn't call him an idiot either) has nothing to do with how I conduct my business. He is wrong, if he belives he is right thats not my fault. He ignored all of the proof and sugestions that I have posted even tho a lot of other people are actulay getting use from it. Like I said, just another lemming following the others..... right off a cliff and rolling down the hill. people need to think for themselves. "3" is fine, don't belive anything else" is in no way a good reason for someone to use 3 inch. The information that I provided is something that everyone can use to help design them a system that is best suited to THIER application. What ever it may happen to be.

It really doesn't matter to me. If they base buying products on what happens during a technical post then I wouldn't want them buying from me anyway. Me telling him that he is wrong (didn't call him an idiot either) has nothing to do with how I conduct my business. He is wrong, if he belives he is right thats not my fault. He ignored all of the proof and sugestions that I have posted even tho a lot of other people are actulay getting use from it. Like I said, just another lemming following the others..... right off a cliff and rolling down the hill. people need to think for themselves. "3" is fine, don't belive anything else" is in no way a good reason for someone to use 3 inch.

I have 3 words for you. Word. Of. Mouth. You'll understand that when you actually get into the business world. Good luck all that, you're going to need it with that attitude. ;)

You apear to be confused. You say that word of mouth is important. I agree. All of my current customers have nothing but great things to say of my products and service..... so what does any of this have to do with it? again. I'm not selling anything here. I am giving my honest sugestions to help people understand the errors of thier ways. They don't like it so I have to keep pushing. I have not once called anyone an idiot, a moron, a tool ect ect. I shoot down the incorrect information and add the correct information.... This is bad for my business somehow?