Are F-Bodies good handlers?

You all know how ricers make the claim that american muscle can't handle. Well, I was wondering is it true about F-bodies? With performance shocks and springs how would an F-body hold up in an autocross or solo event? Anyone have any experience they can throw in?

Thanks

I have a complete edelbroch suspension setup with upper strut tower bar and my 95 Z28 handles like it's on rails . I've takin' off ramp turns at speeds close to 90mph without any rear sliding. so if you can, get yourself a suspension setup and you'll be happy you did. :D

thirdgens supposedly handle VERY VERY good. when they were stock, atleast.. so mod it and you can make it crazy, i believe.

4th gens handle less well, due to being higher and heavier..

thirdgens supposedly handle VERY VERY good. when they were stock, atleast.. so mod it and you can make it crazy, i believe.

4th gens handle less well, due to being higher and heavier..

higher and heavier? Are you sure?

The third and fourth gen f-bodies share the same basic underbody from the firewall back. Many parts will even swap. The rear suspension is nearly unchanged.

The front suspension of a fourth gen is far superior to the third gen. The third gen uses struts and the fourth gen uses a much better upper and lower A arm design.

Also, the fourth gen is not significantly heavier than the third gen. On top of that, the fourth gen chasis is 25% stiffer than the third gen which helps greatly in handling.

I'd take a fourth gen over a third gen any day. That is not to say the third gen cars are bad, it is just the natural progression of technology and inprovements over time.

I drove a buddys v6 mustang today and thought it handled way better than my Trans Am. Maybe i just need some new shocks? :confused:

My car has a stock suspension and it handles quite nicely.

higher and heavier? Are you sure?

The third and fourth gen f-bodies share the same basic underbody from the firewall back. Many parts will even swap. The rear suspension is nearly unchanged.

The front suspension of a fourth gen is far superior to the third gen. The third gen uses struts and the fourth gen uses a much better upper and lower A arm design.

Also, the fourth gen is not significantly heavier than the third gen. On top of that, the fourth gen chasis is 25% stiffer than the third gen which helps greatly in handling.

I'd take a fourth gen over a third gen any day. That is not to say the third gen cars are bad, it is just the natural progression of technology and inprovements over time. :alert:

Yeah, i'm pretty sure the roofline on the fourthgens is higher.. 4th gens have more overhang, sit higher (stock)

pretty sure thirdgens did better on skidpad, too or something like that.

I drove a buddys v6 mustang today and thought it handled way better than my Trans Am. Maybe i just need some new shocks? :confused:

Probably. The stock ones have varied life expectancy based on your driving style, but most say they don't last very long. Mine are starting to feel a little "boatlike". Bigger swaybars can also help get rid of body roll. Of course, your friend with the stang has the weight advantage up front, so if they both have about the same suspension setup the stang will handle better.

As far as f-bodies not handling, well how is a nose heavy live-axle car supposed to handle? Considering the things it has to work against it does a pretty darn good job. There's a lot of people that seem to confuse handling with steering feel, which IMO are somewhat different. Just because you can twitch the steering wheel a quarter of an inch and make the car turn doesn't mean your car can do crap on the skidpad. Another reason the f-body has a bad name is because the stock jobs don't do a superb job of compromising between bumps and turns. You go over a bump and a filling comes loose, you turn and one side of the car seems ready to bottom out. Anyway, put some money into a 4th gen suspension and you'll blow your friends away with how well your heavy and "low tech" car handles.

:alert:

Yeah, i'm pretty sure the roofline on the fourthgens is higher.. 4th gens have more overhang, sit higher (stock)

pretty sure thirdgens did better on skidpad, too or something like that.

from thirdgen.org...
SPEC SHEET '90 CAMARO IROC-Z
PERFORMANCE:
Power to Weight- 14.10 lbs./hp
0 to 60 mph- 6.2 seconds
Quarter-Mile- 14.77 @ 97.7 mph
Top Speed- 145 mph, est.
Skidpad- .87g

from Road & Track..
R&T says the Camaro SS does 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds, the quarter in 13.9 seconds at 105.5 mph, and pulls .87g on the skidpad.

They are pretty close. You might be correct that the 3rd gen roof line is a little lower, but I dont think the difference in handling is enough to say one car is noticably better.

Also, if you are going to use the Iroc as the base for the third gen car, you need to comapare it to an equally optioned fourth gen like an SS. The Iroc had an upgraded suspension similar to the SS.

I've owned a couple Irocs and a few 4th gen Z28s. I can tell you that my convertible with 17" tires and a shock tower brace feels every bit as good as any Iroc I ever had. If my car had the equivilant SS suspension package I'm sure it would be too close to call.

Any way you cut it, both generations handle exceptionally well.

I like the way mine handles (93 Z28), only things ive done were new urethane bushings, eibach pro-kit and kyb gas-adjust shocks. To me it was a night and day difference over the stock suspension. Dunno if it is actually a good handling car because ive never driven anything else so i have no basis for comparison.

Don't flame me but.......I don't think it will out handle a heavily modded older mini cooper... They'll literaly turn on a dime... Like a darn go cart...

I like to think my car handles nicely... Haven't really tested it..

Back to the original post. Ask your ricer buddies how many Civics they have seen dressed up like a cop car. Or an Eclipse. Go on with how many foreign cars you can think of. Then of course, ask him how many Camaros, Mustangs, Caprices, etc have they seen dressed up like cop cars. America wins out. WooHoo.

oh god i hope that was sarcastic

Yes they are great, unfortunately you have to spend a bit. With my setup I am amazed at how much my car can take in a high speed turn without breaking loose. When it does break, it's very predictable and easily corrected. Stock though these cars are mushy and sloppy.

We actually have a forum for questions like this..... "Autocross and Roadracing....." :)

Let's move it there and see what kind of responses it gets.

I put set of springs on my TA last week and let me tell you. It amazes me at how good this thing handles. It sticks to the road like glue.

Eclipses and Civics aren't cop cars, because state and federal governments must purchase domestic automobiles, because it supports the economy...

F-bodies are very capable when driven properly with minimal prep. Back when the Integra Type R was a big deal, national level F stock auto-x'ers were pulling times comparable to the g stock integras. So this is on tight and twisty courses thats supposedly where the lighter fwd cars have their advantage and our overweight cars with its prehistoric suspensions falls on its face. Suprise, suprise to all those uninformed "domestics can't handle" believers. That being said, a novice driver would probably have an easier time pulling fast times in an Integra, thats only until the F-body driver learns to deal with the weight control issues though. :D

F-bodies are best on tracks that have long straightaways because they handle much better at over 100 mph than Mustangs and such because they have much stiffer steering. They are highly capable at autocrossing and actually have terrific handling for such an event according to many articles I have read.

I'm pretty sure this is a good article, read it in full and you will learn some things :)
'96 Camaro vs. Mustang (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43891/article.html)

Here's another good one:
I like to think of myself as a fairly sensitive '90's kind of guy. I do the dishes, launder my own clothes, put the toilet seat down after I'm done using the facilities, never refer to women as girls, and occasionally read the articles in my wife's Ms. magazine. I try to stay current with the latest, politically-correct names that groups use to differentiate themselves from the rest of the population, and I rarely make fun of people. Thus, you can imagine my surprise when I found myself turned into Billy Redneck after a few short minutes behind the wheel of Chevy's Camaro Z28 SS. Gone were the polite road manners that my mother had worked so hard to instill in me when I first got my license. Gone was my respect for the aged and infirm. This car was built to be driven, dammit, and I didn't need any Sunday drivers holding me back.

The metamorphosis from man to beast was as surreal as anything Kafka could have imagined. Toss the penny loafers and burn the chinos; what I needed for this ride was my leather jacket, oldest tennis shoes, and tightest fitting pair of jeans. I was a man possessed with the idea of 305 ponies under the hood and 17" wheels on the ground, and wasn't about to spoil the occasion by looking like a Ken doll. I blazed out of my quiet bedroom community, and headed for a lonely stretch of road about 30 miles outside of Denver. The power of the car was amazing, and although it wasn't as fast as the Corvette we tested earlier this year, it felt much more wild; kind of like riding a rocket with one of its ailerons missing.

The Z28 is not an ordinary car to begin with, because it is much faster than anything else on the road for the money. Check the SS option package box on the order sheet and you'll be rewarded with a forced-air induction, tire-smoking, menace to society. We want to state very clearly that this option package should only be chosen by those who really like to go fast all of the time. It is not meant for the weekend warrior who would need to drive the car sedately 5 days out of the week, and it is most certainly not meant for people who would ever need to drive the car in inclement weather.

The Z28 SS isn't like other cars; driving it is a lot of work. We had a great time taking it through our road courses, and were amazed by the car's rock-solid stability and faultless anti-lock brakes, but the jarring suspension setup makes the car jumpy on all but the smoothest of roads, causing constant correction by the driver. The big Z-rated tires are on a virtual quest to remove drivers from their intended course by following any truck rut or pavement irregularity into oblivion. Differentiating the SS from lesser Camaros is easy. The poodle-swallowing hood scoop, giant tires, and distinct badges let every state trooper in the county know that you are a speed freak. The booming exhaust will annoy your neighbors, and the snarling engine burble will cause parents to clutch their children protectively when you cruise down the road.

Which brings us to an interesting point about the Z28 SS in particular, and the Camaro in general. Camaros have been stigmatized with an unfair reputation since their introduction. When mentioning the Camaro SS at a cocktail party, I lost the interest of the more sophisticated attendees who moments earlier were listening with rapt attention to my discussion of the Porsche Boxster. (The blue-collar rawness of the SS doesn't sit well with those weaned on caviar and Dom Perignon.) Mention Camaros at your place of worship, and be ready to receive the appalled looks of the elder matrons and clergy. Tell a prospective date that you own a Camaro, and you will find her looking at you like you are some proto-Homo sapiens, forever relegated to using monosyllabic words and occasionally scratching yourself where it is not appropriate.

Why are we so quick to judge drivers of Camaros? Is it because they drive poorly? No, Camaro drivers typically pilot their cars as well as the rest of the road-going populace. Is it because they blast obnoxious music out of their vehicles? Although this is sometimes the case, it is certainly not the norm. In fact, the favored cars for sound polluting, wanna-be, gang-bangers are the ubiquitous Honda Civic, Nissan 200SX, and other Japanese pocket rockets. If not these transgressions, then what? They must be doing something wrong to warrant all of this negative attention. We think that it is because Camaro drivers drive fast, and as we all know from high school driver's education classes, speed kills. Not only do Camaro drivers exceed the speed limit, they usually do it such a way that makes the non-Camaro driving population look silly. By accelerating quickly away from a stoplight, Camaros can safely maneuver for the best lane position when traffic is heavy. With plenty of torque everywhere in the powerband, Camaro drivers can cleave through freeway traffic like a hot knife through butter. In other words, by stomping on the long, skinny pedal, Camaro drivers can exit the sad, slow world of minivan madness and sedan slugishness.

This makes minivan and sedan drivers green with envy, and in retaliation they try and slow the Camaro's pace, often performing amazingly stupid acts to make sure that the Camaro doesn't get ahead of them. We at Edmund's think that it is a psychological thing. People don't want to be passed, because in some strange Darwinian manner, speed implies power and success. Thus by bottlenecking traffic in a Lincoln Continental or Dodge Caravan, drivers can assure themselves that they are, in fact, swift and powerful, when in reality they are merely the crippled mountain goat ready to be downed by the lurking cougar.

Nowhere, it seems, is this psychological dysfunction more apparent than the streets of Denver, Colorado. The fear of being passed is so great here that drivers will not move out of the left lane of traffic even if they are going 10 mph under the posted speed limit with a horde of fast movers descending on them like locusts. Witness the experience of our managing editor in the Camaro SS. While serenely driving down C-470, a big looping stretch of freeway that circles the south and west parts of Denver, Chris came upon a minivan slowly cruising in the left hand lane. Our test Z28 SS was bright red and equipped with GM's ever-present daytime running lights. We are certain that only the certifiably blind could have missed the car. Chris hung respectfully behind the minivan for a minute or two, waiting for the driver to notice him and move over. Since this was Denver, Chris's politeness was sorely wasted. The minivan failed to yield to the faster-moving traffic, forcing Chris to attempt to pass on the right. When Chris moved into the right lane, the minivan moved over too, straddling the center line, leaving no room to pass on the left or right. Chris, who has much more patience than this editor, moved back to the left lane, thinking that perhaps the minivan was trying to move right to let him by. No such luck. Once that minivan had Chris and the pesky Z28 SS back in the left lane, he too moved back into the left lane. This process was repeated a number of times, with Chris's blood pressure slowly rising, until a third lane opened up, at which point Chris dropped the hammer and flew past the idiotic minivan. The minivanner, noticeably chagrined at having his masculinity usurped by the threatening, shark-toothed Camaro, immediately sped up and rode Chris's rear bumper. Ironically, the traffic ahead of Chris slowed quickly, causing Chris to come to an abrupt stop. The driver of the minivan wasn't paying attention, great idea when you're tailgating, and failed to notice until the last moment that the traffic in front of him was no longer moving. He had to jam on the brakes, and according to Chris, spilled coffee all over himself in the process. Final score? Camaro 1, Minivan 0.

My guess is that this is the real reason that people hate Camaros. Camaros are aggressive-looking cars that are often owned by aggressive drivers. Drivers that are not likely to suffer fools or left-lane bandits kindly. As a result, when someone tries to hold a Camaro up, they are likely to be embarrassed. Nobody likes to be embarrassed, so the resulting animosity towards Camaros grows at each occurrence. If you are suffering from this Camaro-phobia, we can offer of a simple solution: go out and buy a Camaro. You don't necessarily need a Z28 SS, the less exotic varieties will suffice, and your fears of being passed will be alleviated. Not many vehicles are faster than a Chevy Camaro to begin with, and for the price there is nothing that's an even match.

:alert:

Yeah, i'm pretty sure the roofline on the fourthgens is higher.. 4th gens have more overhang, sit higher (stock)

pretty sure thirdgens did better on skidpad, too or something like that.

Then I got taller. Or did I get shorter?

My old Gen3 was definitely taller than the Gen4 I bought used this weekend.

stock ride height for both?

if so, weird.

stock ride height for both?

if so, weird.

1992 Z28 coupe Height: 50.4 in.
1994 Z28 coupe Height: 51.3 in.
according to edmunds.com the third gen is almost an inch shorter :)

when talking to your ricer friends about "handling", first define what you mean. Most ricers confuse steering feel and nimbleness" with handling. To me, handling is about lap times. F-bodies may not have the nimbleness of smaller cars, but in terms of quantifiable performance, we hold our own surprisingly well.

Ricers are so quick to point out at our live axle and immediate say.. aha.. that is ancient technology and automatically assume we cant get around a roadcourse b/c its not an IRS. The truth is, on a smooth surface, which most tracks are, it is not as much of a hindrance as one might think.

At my last track day with the porsche club, the fastest street driven car was driven by my friend - a 2000 z28 with suspension works and on RA1's. E46 M3's, M5's, 993 porsche C4's, 944 turbo's and even the allmighty skyline (R32 imported from japan) had to give way to a street driven camaro. Im sure the driver plays a part, but the car obviously has the goods to be competitive.

Mike.

I think that you'll find in autocross circles, the configuration of the track will determine which car has the edge in terms of handling. Short, tight courses favor short, tight little cars. Open up the course where the cars must run a little bit of velocity between corners, and the F-body really comes into its own.

As for whether a stock third-gen outhandles a stock fourth-gen or vice-versa, why not look for yourself at SCCA records on F-stock and ESP national championship winners? That ought to tell you if they are comparable handlers: If the trophies stopped in 1993, then you will have your answer. However I think you will be surprised.

my car is bone stock on the handling side. and i think it handles great honestly. i can take some pretty tight turns with ease.

You all know how ricers make the claim that american muscle can't handle.
Thanks

remember, vipers and vettes are used in autocross by many people.

i just did my first HPDE event.. I did pretty well. He graded me pretty well, i could be better on downshifting/rev matching though.

Anyways, all those typical smaller cars out in my group, they were slowing me down in the twisty parts... almost seemed like they weren't pushing it as hard..

My instructor really liked how grippy and predictable my car was too.. and having a wide powerband really helps. He had some to really brace himself by holding the bottom of the seat during the turns.heh..

I just have a few mods, revalved bilstiens, 35mm sold front sway bar, 275/40 R17 Kumho MX, and a T2R out back.

I think I'm going to get some stiffer springs and shocks to help with the highspeed feel.. and a panhard bar out back..

I have a civc and a camaro. The civci is a great little car for nipping around town. It feels light and nimble. I can zip in and out of tight spaces.

By comparison, my camaro is and feels rather big heavy and ponderous, but dayum does it ever hustle, and does it ever sound good and boy I love the sound of tires sqealing when I leave and intersection almost instantly ahead of any other cars. Put me in a long sweeping turn and I can eat the civic.

But, frankly, I don't really give a shirt what others think of my camaro. I love it! And I'll bet most of them would too if they had a chance to drive it.

I just got back from my firt ever auto-x event today, and I was very surprised at how good my car did. I raced in ESP (E- street prepared) and I was shocked at how well my car did. I can tell that there are a few things I need, but right now my only suspension mods are a Torque arm and subframe connectors. That's it.

The car was pretty predictable, it wanted to kick the rear end out a few times, but you have to expect that with RWD cars. I was hnging with a brand new '05 GT, and lagging just a tad behind a new GTO.

Remember, it's 80% driver, 20% car.

The best handling f-body I owned was a 94 V6 w/T-5 and 3.42s....... the suspension had been completely swapped, basically a lowered 1LE but with a V6. The balance was superb, it just didn't have the oats for a road course.

F-bodies have a very picky suspension, and they are very sensitive to what you do to them. If you balance the car out right you can get these things to handle quite well.... but if you have the wrong combo... you will suffer.

F-bodies have a very picky suspension, and they are very sensitive to what you do to them. If you balance the car out right you can get these things to handle quite well.... but if you have the wrong combo... you will suffer.

...and you based your opinion on exactly what experience?

Note my SIG:

1.27 lateral g verified at Gingerman Raveway, August 1999.
1st place trophy, Autocross, Prepared category, 2005 National Fbody Motorsports Event.

I dont think they are that picky at all. At least, not any more than any other car. Get your alignment right, tighten up the rubber parts, get some decent shocks, and hang on.

Add some R- Compounds, and these things are amazing on a nice open course.

...and you based your opinion on exactly what experience?



9 thousand dollars and plenty of experience.


I spent years adjusting the suspension on my car to get it to perform the way I need it to when I want it to.

This is an open forum here there are no experts... so what is the point of your post?

If you haven't realized how picky the F-bodies Unibody chasis is on weight distribution and load adjustments I think you still need to spend somemore time in the pits.

Your not the only one doing this sport.

9 thousand dollars and plenty of experience.


I spent years adjusting the suspension on my car to get it to perform the way I need it to when I want it to.

This is an open forum here there are no experts... so what is the point of your post?

If you haven't realized how picky the F-bodies Unibody chasis is on weight distribution and load adjustments I think you still need to spend somemore time in the pits.

Your not the only one doing this sport.

I understand this is an open forum, but I also expect that if you make a statement like 'suspensions are picky' then you need to back it up with facts that explain why you have come to that conclusion. Stating that you've spent $9K on suspension development, is one good start. Now please explain what you discovered when spending that money that finally lead you to your conclusion.

You know, something that indicates that you actually have gained experience in experimentation with suspension setups at a track. It will make your opinion much more qualified and authoritative.

Here's mine:
http://www.ws6transam.org/glateral.html

I don't mean to pick on anybody, but just to throw this out there: Maybe you spent $9000 trying to correct mistakes you already made. :shrug: Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.

GM made sure every Camaro that came off the line was in a good balance already, and it isn't very hard to throw that balance off when you modify the thing. For example, if you lowered your car, your camber may have gotten messed up, or even the toe in or toe out could have been affected.

I'm not a professional, and I definitely won't claim to be, but that's exactly why I don't modify our cars. There are a lot of people who modify their cars thinking they will be faster, but their mods actually just mess stuff up. For example, I was at a car show, and a 2002 V6 Camaro (automatic) was on the dyno, and the guy had a few mods like exhaust, hyperchip, and a few other minor things, and his car dynoed at 160 hp! He was better off leaving it at stock! :eek:

I'm not trying to pick on anyone (esp. Heatmaker) either, however I do need to have a couple facts or at least some evidence of personal observation before I accept an opinion at face value.

I, for one, have my share of discoveries and mistakes: I recently lost a whole lot of traction ability after lowering the car one inch all the way around. The reason? The lower control arm forward mount on the body sits at seven inches from the ground whereas the rear LCA pickup mount on the axle sits at nine inches. With nine & eight inches the problem wasn't too bad, especially with only 262 RWHP on tap. However, by lowering the car and swapping in 400 RWHP, the traction went away. Now I smoke first gear at anything greater than 60% throttle, and second gear better be perfectly straight on dry pavement or it'll lose traction. Thus, I learned that those gimmicky LCA relocation brackets are probably really necessary and I'll need to order some before M10.

I also learned that horrendous wheelhop can mess up your gear lash. Because of the bad LCA geometry, I lost traction at Memphis Motorsports park and hammered my 7 5/8 ring & pinion which resulted in instant gear whine. So,,, those are just this summer's discoveries!

I'm off topic now, but what are relocation brackets? I have heard people talk about them a lot, but I've been too afraid to ask what exactly is being relocated. :o

They allow you to mount the trailing arms or control arms lower to the ground. After you put lowering springs in, one end of the trailing arm will move up realtive to the chassis. This makes for poor traction and it is really noticeable at takeoff. Most all mfers that make suspension parts will have these too.

I just participated in a "racing driving school" about a month ago ...

... DAMN, what an experience!! :bow:

OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious;)). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 (:bow: ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.

Considering my car is pretty much stock (and an automatic :yuck: ) it did really well IMO:thumb:. Sure, I can feel the weight of the car, and its inherent "understeer" into some of the corners, but I can't blame the car for anything it did wrong on the track that day ... I'm sure a better driver could push the car further than I did, so I can only imagine how it would handle with better springs, shocks, sway arms, and TIRES!!!:rolleyes: All things considered though, I had no problem keeping up with (or pushing;)) most of the cars on the track that day, except for the Z06, the 2 Mustangs, and the Ferrari;). Our cars (and/or driving capabilities) all seemed to be about equal:cool:.

But yeah, IMO the F-bodies can handle just fine ... AND, they pack a helluva punch on the straights, of course!!:D

Yea, I just got done my first HDPE event, and man that was a BLAST! I'm hooked now.

Anyways, i got some relatively minor mods on my 99 Z28.. custom valved bilstiens.. 35 mm solid swaybar up front.. 17" SS rims with 275/40 with Kumho MX's.. and a T2R diff.. and a little neg camber, as much pos castor, and 0 toe up front.


The instructor and I, was pretty impressed on how predictable the car was, and even when entering a few turns a bit too hot, understeer wasn't horrible, even with that swaybar upfront.. (though the autox I've done before has already given me some experience not to simply plow thru carrying too much speed before) It also helped that I was smooth and consistant on hitting the lines... even said he enjoyed riding with me. Of course I can sitll improve on everything (especialy downshifting with heel and toe).. The car itself felt a little light above 100 mph (got to hit 130 on the front and back straights). and he mentioned it felt the rear felt it was shifting ever so slightly on powering out.. perhaps worn bushings or a better panhard rod? and a omre agressive spring/shock combo all around... I wasn't thrilled about brake feel.. even with HP+ pads and fresh bled fluids.. Then again, this is really the first time I've ever done such heavy and highspeed braking... So I was pretty conservative with the brakes..


But I too was chasing down and passing most cars too.. Although the more advanced groups were obviously mostly faster and better drivers than us in the beginner group.

Understeer in corners? That doesn't seem right. Were they uphill corners? Or did you just enter them without braking enough? That could explain it maybe. When I drive track courses (very rarely mind you) I never really notice having any understeer with any cars except the front wheel drive ones.

I forgot to mention, if you read old car magazines from the 90s, you'll find that the Camaro and Firebird were rated in handling just below the Corvette and Viper GTS as far as domestic cars go. Back then, they didn't really compare them to Japanese or European cars, but I'd imagine an RX-7 would murder a Camaro in the twisties.

The Callaway C8 was rated better than the Viper GTS though, so what does that tell you? :) (f-bodies are good handlers).

I just participated in a "racing driving school" about a month ago ...

... DAMN, what an experience!! :bow:

OK, there were some serious cars there (and some not so serious;)). A mid-90's Ferrari 348 Spyder, an '05 Mustang GT, an '03 Z06 (:bow: ), a hopped up mid-90's Mustang GT, a ~'96 twin-turbo Supra, and then a few Integras, Civics, a couple BMW's, and some other crap.!!:D

Hey hey hey!

I was there too, in the red z28.

I like to think my car is not crap. ;)

[QUOTE=Brangeta]I don't mean to pick on anybody, but just to throw this out there: Maybe you spent $9000 trying to correct mistakes you already made. :shrug: Or maybe even $9000 messing it up.


your right... I'm going to break the car down and seel everything in the forsale forums.. look out... there's gonna a be a killer sale soon.

Wait... I'm confused now. Is that sarcasm? :confused:

yea, i have to say, the understeer was caused from trying to enter the corners too hot.. I don't have any problem with mid corner and exit understeer.


When I first started Autoxing, I used to understeer all over the place though.. mostly cause I was going in wayy too fast. and the stock setup with worn tires didn't help either.

I'm off topic now, but what are relocation brackets? I have heard people talk about them a lot, but I've been too afraid to ask what exactly is being relocated. :o

Brackets that attach to the rear end assembly that drops the lower control arm attaching point. This relocation uses the rotational force of the differential when the throttle is applied to plant the rear differential harder. It is especially needed on lowered cars. When you lower a car, the lower control arm angle moves the car's instant center to a point that is outside the car, making traction difficult. The front attaching point is lowered and the lower control arm usually becomes close to parallel to the gound. By dropping the rear attaching point, the instant center is restored back to within the car's dimensions, the control arm is back at an angle where it is pointed roughly at the engine. If you notice, a stock f-body will squat the rear end on acceleration. Adding a dropped rear attaching point, the rear of the chassis will rise due to the leverage of the differential being planted downward when power is applied. They are a definate help, but not a cure-all.