Which do I do? 400+hp 305 or drop in an LT/LS1

I am kind depressed knowing of somebody that has a CAM ONLY LT1, and he is near 400hp. CAM ONLY! Now.. should I build up my 305 to the best of my abilities and prove to myself (as well as all the 305-haters out there) what I am made of, or do I say F*ck it and drop an LT/LS-1 in and call it a day (with possible mods in the future?)

So.. which is it and why?

snatch up a LT1, and put that in there...i built up my TPI, and swapped to HSR, and i'm sitting at just under 400 horse, and now I wish i would've swapped in a LT4 or something...its very tough to get 400 hp out of a 305 by the way, it wouldn't be very cost effective...

Hey:
Klumb15 hit the nail on the head there, Not cost effective in the least. Nothing wrong with a 305, but it will cost you more...and net you less. The small bore of this engine will be what limits you. As for the choice between an Lt1/Ls1/SBC 350. Its a toss up really, what can you afford and what do you want, and finally what are your plans for the car. I think it would be absolutely silly for you to drop a LS1 powerplant and have thoughts of selling it one day. I would probably lean towards a Lt1 myself. Parts are generally cheaper, although you may not get as much power as a LS1...it should meet your expectations. A set of ported stock Lt1 heads, a custom cam, and supporting bolt-ons will get you over 400rwhp. It came from the factory blessed with a relatively good intake as well...heck with that and the heads you would have saved a ton over a TPI build. BTW, I have now idea where the hell Holland NY is, but I have an LT1 that i may be selling as soon as the 355 is done. Its stock, it needs cam bearings. It would be a great candidate for a buildup. Has less than 90,000 miles. Its not totally complete but if you have any interest PM me for more info.

Kyle

ls1, more costly then lt1 but worth the reward. lt1 is pointless in my opinion, the damn optispark alone is no fun but the bare motor is barely above tpi in many instances. either route you go will be expensive, the way i look at it though the ls1 will give you driveability and gas mileage at the same power rating versus the tpi setup with less weight as well.

Thanks for all the views guys. Yes, I know that building up my 305 won't exactly be "cheap", but all I have to do is swap 3, MAYBE 4 things out and replace them w/ better stuff and I will be 400+ in no time.
This car also has a TON of sentimental value, and probably wont be sold EVER.
Oh ya, there was a PM sent also :D

LT1 would be best. You will never hit 400hp out of the 305. The LS1 has the most power potential, but you would have to do more modifying to put it in versus the LT1.

I vote LT1/LS1

LT1 would be best. You will never hit 400hp out of the 305. The LS1 has the most power potential, but you would have to do more modifying to put it in versus the LT1.

You wanna bet I wont hit 400+hp in my 305?
See.. this is EXACTLY why I want to build up my 305. So when I spank that cammed LS1 owners a$$ and they ask what kind of Big-Block power I am packing, I reply.. "Just a boat-anchor 305".

what kind of things are you gonna do to your 305 to make it hit 400 hp? it sounds like you have a goal, you have a plan for achieving it, but in the end you more than likely won't....so i'm just curious on the types of things your gonna do to your 305 to achieve that...beacuse this has been tryed, and most people come up short...i'm not saying that you would, i'm just going by statistics here...

The LT1 swap might give you a good start on things, just becasue everything is a bit cheaper for them, but like stated above, the optispark is bullsh*t...something to stay away from...another alternative to the LT1 would be build up an older 350, and keep the stock ignition style and everything....there is nothin special about LT1's...they have alum heads, cast blocks, 2 bolt mains, and are 275 hp stock...last time i checked, thats not much more than my stock L98 vette motor...and my swap was way more straight forward than a LT1 swap would be...

Then you got the LS1....don't get me wrong, this would be an awesome swap, i would die to have a swap like this in my car....one thing tho, all the install parts are expensive, and you have to use your imagination when putting it all together to make everything work...from what i've read, there's a lot of head scratching going on when doing this...it would totally be worth it in the long run tho...also its not exactly cheap to get your hands on a LS1 motor, trans, and all the wiring...you'll pay an arm and a leg for the motor/trans, then your other arm will go towards the brackets and everything to make it all work.....right now, i think the LS1 swap is not worth it, but in the future, when LS1's get a bit cheaper, and the cost of parts goes down, I think it would make for an awesome car....swapping in a LS1 would give you 350 hp stock...do a few minor things and your up at 400-500 real quick...my buddy has a cam swap thats it, in his 00 z28 M6, and its running 12.5's with a few other minor mods...its on spray now and it'll probably see 11's now...

this all really depends on how deep your pockets are...

if you got all the money in the world, go for the LS1
if your not too smart go with the LT1 or keep the 305
the easiest way out would be build up a nice 4 bolt main 350, maybe make it a 355 or 383...then go from there (recommended)

Oh I've got PLENTY more mods coming up for the 305 if I decide to keep it ;) I just have to wait until I graduate college before I can afford them :(
Honestly, I just want a car that makes me happy. I always told myself before I started to do-up my Z that *all* I wanted was 275-300hp, and somewhere in the vicinity of 320lb's of torque. Now, I want more :D
I am also doubting the LT1 as well; maybe I will try and find an L98 and then cam it, head it, and slap an HSR on it and call it a day (until I get the itch to mod again ;) ).

Check out my sig and you will know what I would vote for.:)

An LS1 would work too.

Of course you can get 400hp out of a 305. You could also get 400hp out of a 4 banger 1.6L. I am making over 500fwhp easy with just bolt-ons and a blower and still get 25mpg.

here's a story for ya, recently my friend has been in the same shoes as you are in..he's got a 305 in his iroc, and wants to just keep the 305, because that would save him the trouble of looking for a decent 350....but what he wants to do is bore it and stroke it and make it a 335 stroker...now this would be a very stout motor, and could see 400 hp very easily if the combo is right...but then i explained to him, if he did the EXACT same thing to a 350, he would have the EXACT same money into it and have a 383 stroker...which in my eyes is pretty much the best engine you can get....

so think of it that way, THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT

so think of it that way, THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISCPLACEMENT

You're right, it is critical where you place your disc. :D

Just kidding with you. :)

Why are all these people saying that LT1s are stupid, not worth the hassle, and then suggesting LS1s? An LT1 is a small block and will drop in, makes more like 295 hp stock, and has the potential for 400+ hp with the stock heads and intake. And as long as you're smart and careful with the optispark, it's a reliable and dead accurate ignition. LS1 needs a bunch of hacking to fit, costs a bit more to buy, and parts for them are more expensive than a typical small block. To save money I'd go with a plain jane 350 and build it with a carburetor :eek:. Why not buy the Holley Street Avenger head cam intake setup for $1400 and make 425 horsepower on a mildly beefed $1000 short block with forged pistons and 4 bolt mains?

Wow, no offense but those who said a LT1 isn't worth it is a jackass. You can pick up Lt1's for as cheap as you can Late model SBC's..not to mention the heads are WAY better from tthe factory. The L98 was blessed with crappy heads, and a poor intake setup. Yo usave money with the Lt1 right there..not to mention even the old school guys could use the GMPP Lt1 carb intake of modify a Super Vic to be used with the Lt1 and a carb. Ported Lt1 heads flow a good 20+ cfm more than the ported L98 vette heads. I was a dumbass that swapped a LB9 305TPI for a L98 Tpi, then modded it with AFr's and a mini-ram...when I could have gotten more power with a LT1 and saved a ton. Bang for the buck the Lt1 wins...sorry guys.

Pm sent back man.

lt1 isn't worth it... i'd rather keep the l98, lt4 maybe. rwhp numbers, even at the crank are strictly to show off anyhow and there is no way a stock lt1 makes 290 or anywhere near rwhp. it depends on so many factors in the end with horsepower in general. 400 rwhp 305 n/a would take a lot of work, knowhow and money. either way it's your toy, do what you like. i've seen alot of people claim similar things, i've attempted it myself and know how it goes. such a feat is not easy by any means, now if you were talking carb that's a different ball game entirely. if you can do it in a 305, n/a, efi and reliable i'd ceratinly love to see it.

good luck with your choice..

lt1 isn't worth it... i'd rather keep the l98, lt4 maybe. rwhp numbers, even at the crank are strictly to show off anyhow and there is no way a stock lt1 makes 290 or anywhere near rwhp. it depends on so many factors in the end with horsepower in general. 400 rwhp 305 n/a would take a lot of work, knowhow and money. either way it's your toy, do what you like. i've seen alot of people claim similar things, i've attempted it myself and know how it goes. such a feat is not easy by any means, now if you were talking carb that's a different ball game entirely. if you can do it in a 305, n/a, efi and reliable i'd ceratinly love to see it.

good luck with your choice..

Wow, rather keep an L98...now thats just crazy talk right there. If I had an L98 it may be worth it, but certainly not if you were gonna swap one in place of a 305. RWHP is for bragginr rights, thats correct..but with some many variances it makes it the best way at looking at a street cars potential. Now cars for all out drag can't fall into this, because there are certain things that you will find more on drag cars that make these numbers lower. 290RWHP is CAKE to get with an Lt1....many LT1's are there with some headers and a CAI. I could swap an LT1 in for about 1/4 the price of an LS1...and if he wants to really start modding with internal parts its really a toss up whether a LS1 would be better. For most an LT1 is the way to go, it's cheaper, its easier, and from the factory it has more potential than a L98. The reason that I say this is because the L98 heads are OK, but not as good as an LT1's heads. For instance, when I had my L98 I had AFR 190's. They cost me alot of money ($1800)...I got some LE2 stock casting heads, that outflow the AFR's...with stock castings :bow:. Now after I got the heads I had to address the L98 intake...because the stock TPI setup is piss poor in regards to making power where I wanted it...I get the all mighty Mini-Ram 2...thats a badass setup( yes, Jeff I know you don't like it)...the Lt1 was blessed with a factory intake setup that is very similar....so that can be ported for a mere 100-150 dollars. Opti-Sparks aren't that bad either, they have just gotten a bad rap. They do there job, and its up to the task of providing the spark needed to make high HP stock...so I cant complain. I think its a matter of experience and patience, if you know what you are doing they are easily maintained. All this makes the swap that much better, and ends up be cheaper. Cam and bolt-ons my LT1 made almost 340RWHP...lets see the old L98 do that. lol

You've already sunk time and money into the current motor. Leave it the way it is and enjoy it for a while, while saving money for future plans....

- Justin

I say do a good ole' fashioned Carbed motor.

2nd option- LT1

Last - LS1/L98

I say do a good ole' fashioned Carbed motor.

2nd option- LT1

Last - LS1/L98

Carbed LT1 would be badass and much cheaper than an equivalant plain jane SBC.

As of right now the motor is carbed :D Another problem is I dont know fuel-injection AT ALL, so if I were to do a FI-motor swap, I am going to have to read-up on EVERYTHING all over again. That will be the most difficult part.
Thank everybody for your oppinions though, keep 'em coming!

well if its carbed, and you have no existing wires for the original TPI...i'd say go with a variation of a LT1...because than you can just start from scratch, and put some newer technology in there....there's no sense of putting old technology in when you have the chance of putting new stuff in there...

second thought, you coudl always stay carberated too...

My car was never TPI :D Originally a Rochester Q-Jet ;)

I say an LS1 Swap is the way to go. I'd find somebody selling a low mileage LS1 Shortblock and put a decent set of heads and stout camshaft in there and have a ball.

That would be a great car to drive for certain.

Hell ya it would be a great car to drive! Not to mention the gas-mileage I would achieve would be amazing! But I am thinking that this is gonna cost more than it's worth. I will need the LS1 tranny, rear-end, new rims that are larger, and the list goes on :think:

You wouldn't need a new rear, or new wheels. I think LS1 swaps are cool but I don't feel they are that cost effective either. I have talked to a few guys about this option and stuff just adds up so quickly. Heck even finding an LS1 for less than $3500 is difficult. You could find a Complete LT1+T56 for $2500 or less with wiring harness and all accessories. Hooking it up isn't difficult either. That would leave $1000 + for cam, bolt ons and other stuff and it would have plenty of power. If you have the money then sure go ahead and swap in an LS1, but if ya got that much money ya might as well buy an LS1 car.

In order for the LS1 to transfer all it's power to the ground, I would need at *least* the stock T56 for them. Using a T56 would mean needing an LS1 or LT1 drive-shaft. Since their lengths are different than my stock d/s, then I would also need the LS1 rear-end (to hold the power over my stock 10-bolt as well). That would mean I need bigger rims because my stock 15's wont fit on an LS1 rear.

In order for the LS1 to transfer all it's power to the ground, I would need at *least* the stock T56 for them. Using a T56 would mean needing an LS1 or LT1 drive-shaft. Since their lengths are different than my stock d/s, then I would also need the LS1 rear-end (to hold the power over my stock 10-bolt as well). That would mean I need bigger rims because my stock 15's wont fit on an LS1 rear.

If you used a T56 it would use the same driveshaft your T5 uses. LS1 rear is really not any stronger than your 10 bolt, its the same thing with a different differential. Next is stock wheels will fit over rear LS1 brakes.

well, i'd like to see a 305 that makes a streetable 405 hp.... I'm sure it's possible, but a waste of money. i tried that route before. not much luck. really, for the best easy bang for the buck, pick up an l98 and build it. put a converted lt1 intake ot it, or a holley stealth ram. you'll be riding nicely, without the major PITA of the lt1 swap.

Just curious why everyone seems to think the LT1 swap is so difficult? It seems pretty strait forward to me. It would be just as difficult to throw an L98 in because his car is carbed, not TPI..so he still has wiring to do. Like I said LT1 and L98's are pretty much the same price, and LT1 has many advantages over it.

unless you have whitnessed an lt1 swap into a 3rd ge, itdoes seem easy. you have to change a motor mount, run reverse cooling, all new wiring. an l98 fits right in and uses the same cooling and all. the lt1 swap is a major PITA from what i've seen. lots of splicing into the wiring harness.

I have also seen it, not that big of a deal. We are actually swapping a carbed LT1 into a 87 IROC as we speak...its fired and moving just having some clutch issues. Also swapped one in a friends 69 camaro til his BBC was sone. Ran great.

Kyle

If you used a T56 it would use the same driveshaft your T5 uses. LS1 rear is really not any stronger than your 10 bolt, its the same thing with a different differential. Next is stock wheels will fit over rear LS1 brakes.

I made a thread a while back and I am pretty positive that the stock 15's wont fit in the LS1 brakes :D

well, i'd like to see a 305 that makes a streetable 405 hp....

Me too :D

Just curious why everyone seems to think the LT1 swap is so difficult?

I am deathly affraid of fuel-injection :shame:

I want to see you do it, but lets put the challenge a little higher. It sounds like you want to keep things streetable, so don't go with a huge camshaft. That is the biggest mistake that beginners make. I have always thought it could be done with a modest cam and the right parts. You will also have to pay attention to detail when building your bad ass 305. I suggest you look into Smokey Yunicks book on the small block chevy performance. There are so many things that the common engine builder misses that can worth a lot of power. These things do take a lot more time, but you will be pleased with the results.

I know you don't like efi, but there are a lot of advantages with streetability. Don't get me wrong. A good carb tuner can do a lot of things, but you will be under the hood once a week tuning the carb.

We have messaged earlier today on a different thread and you know how much I like to do things that others say can't be done. So, good luck and happy to help

Austin

Thanks for your input dahaus, and thank you for voting :D My camshaft is deffinently not "HUGE" as many use, but it is deffinently not SMALL either. I relize that there is TONS more tunability/driveabilty w/ using EFI, but I do not know how to play with it and neither does my hot-rodder friend that has been helping me out so-far. There are SO MANY things that I can think of off the top of my head right now that if I had perfected from scratch I would be making more hp, but I figured that soon-enough they will be swapped out for better parts anyways so I am not worried about it.

My camshaft is deffinently not "HUGE" as many use, but it is deffinently not SMALL either. I do not know how to play with it and neither does my hot-rodder friend that has been helping me out so-far.

Cmon man, you gotta keep it under a PG13 rating here. :D :p

:lol:
Very clever :D

Hey I don't mean to hi jack, but I noticed your from the Western New York Area

I am the founder of wnyfbody.com
you should come and check us out, currently have 199 members :D

I am a designated 305 hater and you know this, I have stated before that I believe you may be able to get 400hp out of a 305 but I think you will twist the crank, not to mention having spent way more than you would have if you just built a 350 in the first place. but F-it build the 305 and a few months later, if you havn't blown it up, post it and laugh in my face.

Lynk, I'm not sure why you would think you would "twist the crank". The bottom end of a 350 and a 305 are pretty much the same, except for the size of the piston. And when I say pretty much, I mean the only thing different is the rods are little lighter built and the balance of the crank is for a lighter rod and piston. You can put 350 rods in and the bottom end is as strong as the 350.

Yes, you will put more money into the 305. This is true. But, the motor will have just as much chance of living as any other.

Hey I don't mean to hi jack, but I noticed your from the Western New York Area

I am the founder of wnyfbody.com
you should come and check us out, currently have 199 members :D

Hey, no way?? Where are you guys located? I am 30-miles south of Buffalo :D

honestly if you have a carbed car just leave it carbed.

You can easily make just as much power, just stroke out a good 350 block, get some half descent heads ported by a good place, cam intake and carb. Theres your 400 hp easy. If you already have efi theres no reason to get rid of it. But its so much more of a headache and without enough gain to justify it for your average street driven car.

^Ya, I feel the same. My car came w/ Carb, so it's staying car (unless I put in an engine that's already EFI). Although I *would* like the fuel-efficiency gain from EFI :cool:

for the money that you would spend on an EFI 350/383 you could build a stroked 400 block with a carb. enough said