Maybe I was wrong to suspect all the doom and gloom for Pontiac so soon

1) Solstice coupe was confirmed by C&D, as someone else started in another thread. This little tidbit got by me. BTW, C&D does NOT say its just a hardtop for the vert, but it appears to be a full-blown coupe for '07 :bow:

2) I believe its the Car Connection that is reporting the following (article was sent via email to me by a co-worker):


"Beyond the debut of 2006 models, even more realignments are slated for Pontiac . GM's vice-president for North Americ a sales, service and marketing, Mark LaNeve, said last week that dealers have asked that Sunfire and Grand Am be replaced as soon as possible by an entry-level car, and GM has reportedly responded with a quickie spin-off of the Chevrolet Cobalt for the 2007 model year.

Pontiac has become GM's biggest "loser" in sales so far this year, showing a 16-percent sales decline that June's employee-pricing rollout was unable to reverse. It was a bitter pill in view of jumps of about 40 percent for Buick, Chevrolet, and Saturn. Many Pontiac dealers blame a spotty image for the new mid-size G6 sedan as a factor in the first-half sales reverse. Replacement of the well-entrenched Grand Am name by "G6" has failed to resonate among Pontiac shoppers, says Gordon Wangers, a marketing analyst based in Marina Del Rey, Calif.- Mac Gordon "

There's my Delta-based Pontiac I've been screaming for :D Now, lets HOPE this "quickie spin-off" is more than GM Canada got for the Pursuit. The Pursuit is literally a Cobalt with a Pontiac nose...it even shares wheels and spoilers :( I imagine the quick-redo will be a little more involving, or lets at least hope so...

And BTW, I would like to mention that I predicted a full year before the G6 came out that "G6" would not resonate anywhere near as well with buyers as "Grand Am" would have. There was nothing wrong with the Grand Am's image that the G6 redesign didn't fix!!!!!!!! As a point of reference, look how awful the old Altima was compared to the new one. I don't see it hurting Nissan at all...

Grand Am and Grand Prix always stood for small and midsize Pontiacs!!

And BTW, I would like to mention that I predicted a full year before the G6 came out that "G6" would not resonate anywhere near as well with buyers as "Grand Am" would have. There was nothing wrong with the Grand Am's image that the G6 redesign didn't fix!!!!!!!!

Watch for history to repeat itself again with LeSabre / Lucerne.

LeSabre routinely sells 100k + units a year and enjoys a very loyal following and an excellent reputation for quality and reliability. What exactly is wrong with that? Seems like a niche any automaker would love to own. So what does GM think is has to gain by turfing "LeSabre"? I guess they think they'll attract a younger, sportier crowd, but that market is already crowded beyond belief, and Buick has virtually no credentials there. So you alienate your loyal customers and fail to attract new ones in return. My guess is that Lucerne won't see 75k sales in any year.

Quite a few people have gotten on me for this, but the G6 doesn't have the personality of the Grand Am.

Sure, the G6 is better made, and looks more like a quality made car. But the Grand Am was simply more entertaining to look at and conveyed more "fun" that the G6 can't match.

I'm sure some brainiacs will come up and say that the public is stupid, but it's the public that you are appealing to.

I disagree about the G6 lacking personality (it is quite uniquely styled in the midsize sedan world, I think), but I do agree that dropping the Grand Am name may not have been the best move. I understand the thinking behind it (Grand Am had "old GM" or "rental car" stigma attached, in SOME circles), but that doesn't mean it was the best call.

I'm even more concerned, now that it has been mentioned, about the LeSabre name being dropped (as it had a big following, and probably a more LOYAL following than even the Grand Am's).

I guess it theoretically shouldn't be hard for a dealer to say to a customer that the G6 IS effectively the new Grand Am, or that the Lucerne IS the new LeSabre. But some people are too into the name, and they could be turned off. But if a customer walks into a dealership and asks to see the Grand Ams, I'd happily explain to them that the Grand Am was renamed for the '05 MY and is now called the G6 (then blame it on the marketing guys... :( ).

Hell, maybe I'd let 'em drive a LeSabre and Lucerne (or Grand Am and G6) back to back and make up their own minds how important the name is.

:shrug:

Quite a few people have gotten on me for this, but the G6 doesn't have the personality of the Grand Am.

Sure, the G6 is better made, and looks more like a quality made car. But the Grand Am was simply more entertaining to look at and conveyed more "fun" that the G6 can't match.

I'm sure some brainiacs will come up and say that the public is stupid, but it's the public that you are appealing to.

That may well be the public perception of the Grand Am, but I never really saw it that way. The Grand Am, to me, was just another smallish midsize GM car with extra plastic on the sides, I didn't think of it as sporty or distinctive, or anything much more than a decent rental car. The G6 looks like a good car to me, much cleaner and more refined. That said, I wouldn't have had a problem with Pontiac using the Grand Am name on the G6. Seems to me like the name shouldn't make that much of a difference either way.

LeSabre routinely sells 100k + units a year and enjoys a very loyal following and an excellent reputation for quality and reliability. What exactly is wrong with that? Seems like a niche any automaker would love to own. So what does GM think is has to gain by turfing "LeSabre"? I guess they think they'll attract a younger, sportier crowd, but that market is already crowded beyond belief, and Buick has virtually no credentials there. So you alienate your loyal customers and fail to attract new ones in return. My guess is that Lucerne won't see 75k sales in any year.The LeSabre body IS "dated", and a move to "freshen" the Buick offerings is, I think, a good one. (I own 2 Buicks btw, a Park Ave and a Regal.) I think reviving the V8 engine in the Lucerne will comfort those morning over the loss of the LeSabre nameplate. (Which will be our next New car.) They will just have to offer trim levels for the budgets of the vehicle replaced. I mean, LeSabre buyers probably won't go an extra $10K + for a Lucerne. But then again they will probably split between the Lacross and the Lucerne. But many people I talk to want the power and reliability of the V8, many are afraid of the costs and reliability(perceived or real) of the superchargers, but want the power.

My biggest delima right now is that I need a TRUE mid-sized "5" passenger car that gets 30+mpg..(2 adults + 3 med sized kids.) A rear bucket seat is just too uncomfortable for whomever is lucky enough to draw the "hump-seat".. :D

Quite a few people have gotten on me for this, but the G6 doesn't have the personality of the Grand Am.I totally agree, it has its own look....exciting???..not really...it's too smooth shaved for a Grand Am replacement, and the Name "G6" sounds like a foreign experiment or something.
(I've owned 2 Grand Ams...)

Quite a few people have gotten on me for this, but the G6 doesn't have the personality of the Grand Am.
I agree. While the G6 may be "refined", it's too reserved to replace the GA. I think this has to do with the direction they wanted to take Pontiac, which is of course flawed. GM already has 3 boring-looking car divisions, they shouldn't have turned Pontiac into one as well.

At any rate, didn't the most famous Pontiac of all time wear a giant golden screaming chicken on the hood? If you are riding on reliability (Toyota), yuppie factor (BMW), or hopes and dreams or whatever other nonsense you can dream up, then you do not have to invest in styling. But Pontiac doesn't have that luxury. Neither did Chrysler. How well would the 300 sell if it was not overly flambouyant?

Watch for history to repeat itself again with LeSabre / Lucerne.

LeSabre routinely sells 100k + units a year and enjoys a very loyal following and an excellent reputation for quality and reliability. What exactly is wrong with that? Seems like a niche any automaker would love to own. So what does GM think is has to gain by turfing "LeSabre"? I guess they think they'll attract a younger, sportier crowd, but that market is already crowded beyond belief, and Buick has virtually no credentials there. So you alienate your loyal customers and fail to attract new ones in return. My guess is that Lucerne won't see 75k sales in any year.

What?! Buick is naming a car Lucerne? LOL, that's the name of a dairy company around here. i think it's a small town too.

No way in hell would I be caught dead driving a "Lucerne" lol, wtf.

How well would the 300 sell if it was not overly flambouyant?


The 300 is flambouyant? That's not exactly the wording i'd use. I'd describe it more as boring to an extreme, a big ugly box. Beyond that it has the 'different' factor going too. Nothing about it screams boy racer, or wannabe fast car the same way the GA with all it's stupid cladding and 1986 fighter cockpit wannabe interior did.

The 300 was the wrong car to pick for your analogy IMO. If anything, the G6 more embodies the 300s boring but stylish appeal.

G4 GXP with 2.4 turbo would be so awsome to go along with a turbo Solstice. :bow:

What?! Buick is naming a car Lucerne? LOL, that's the name of a dairy company around here. i think it's a small town too.

No way in hell would I be caught dead driving a "Lucerne" lol, wtf.

Lucerne is a city in Switzerland. I think that they are trying to cash in on the Euro flavor, and in the mean time losing sight of the uniquely American history and heritage of the brand.

Not sure what it is about our country, but I get REALLY tired of people embracing every heritage except our own. :(

Grand Am and Grand Prix always stood for small and midsize Pontiacs!!

And Firebird stood for performance Pontiacs... It really is a shame to see Pontiac go down hill like it has. There's nothing left of it for me to even want to stop by a Poncho dealer.

The 300 is flambouyant? That's not exactly the wording i'd use. I'd describe it more as boring to an extreme, a big ugly box. Beyond that it has the 'different' factor going too. Nothing about it screams boy racer, or wannabe fast car the same way the GA with all it's stupid cladding and 1986 fighter cockpit wannabe interior did.

The 300 was the wrong car to pick for your analogy IMO. If anything, the G6 more embodies the 300s boring but stylish appeal.

I think it's safe to say that judging by how extraordinarily well the 300 has been accepted by the public, and the following it's gotten, and how much money and market share it's bringing Chrysler (it almost singlehandedly snagged Chrysler over a percentage point), you're probally waaaaaay wrong about the 300 looking boring. :lol:

...I'm even more concerned, now that it has been mentioned, about the LeSabre name being dropped (as it had a big following, and probably a more LOYAL following than even the Grand Am's).

You see that coming too, don't you? ;)

Buick buyers are very conservative. You can't go pulling names and replacing them to this group IMO.

Not sure what it is about our country, but I get REALLY tired of people embracing every heritage except our own. :(

Agree.

I really like the G6, I think it is a step in the right direction for Pontiac. I can't wait to see the coupe and the convertible on the road.

All I can say is this. After owning 4 Grand Ams myself (a '95 SE, a '98 SE, currently sharing a '99 SE with my fiance, and an '02 GT), I'd like to just say that the G6 is better than I could have ever hoped for, from a styling and refinement standpoint. I loved my 2 SEs...my GT was a bitter dissapointment. Our current SE is a nice little car...great on gas, sporty looking in black with a spoiler and factory alloys, RATTLE FREE with 56k on it and 6 years old...but that dash is still tragic. I don't mind driving it in the dark, because then I can't see all the geegaws Pontiac used as an attempt to style the inside of the '99-'05 Grand Ams.

With that being said, there is a lot to a name...and the G6 would be better off as a Grand Am, period. I've sold several now to loyal Grand Am owners...they have no idea why Pontiac dropped the name!

I think it's safe to say that judging by how extraordinarily well the 300 has been accepted by the public, and the following it's gotten, and how much money and market share it's bringing Chrysler (it almost singlehandedly snagged Chrysler over a percentage point), you're probally waaaaaay wrong about the 300 looking boring. :lol:


I said boring to an extreme. And what do sales figures have to do with how boring a car is anyway. The average toyota appliance is boring, and they sell pretty well. Same for lots of other boring cars like malibus, impalas, every buick in the past 18 years, etc.

Again, i don;t see ANY comparison between a tacky design like a GA, and a simple boxy design like a 300. None whatsoever. If the 300 came with hood scoops and ground effects then you'd have some semblance of a point. I just can't imagine a bigger dichotomy in automtive styling than GA vs 300. The 300 proves that people will buy a clean, stylish boring car. I wouldn't use any of those words to describe a GA.