PRODUCTION '07 Cobra pics. [Archive] - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board

slayerxxx213

07-20-2005, 07:49 PM

Hmmm....I'm not impressed. It's just a pig, plain and simple, 3,850 lbs, (or whatever it is), is nuts. And you gotta' know that the weight distribution is horrible, (I believe it's 57/43...), so there goes your handling. I do like the fact that the shelby name isn't on it though, I'm much more into the "COBRA". Also, I'm sure that with the awesome aerodynamics of this car that it will be great at speed :rolleyes: ....I'm willing to bet that thing won't do so well as the speeds climb, it's great that it has all that horsepower, but it's sort of dumb when people are saying the GT's get light at like 120, the Cobra can't be much better....Honestly if it was my money I was spending why would I want that??? I'd go out and find a mint low miles '04 Cobra and use the ton of money that I saved, (you know the mark up from the dealers will be real bad), to do stuff to it. Without even doing anything it's already better looking. Put SFC's on it and the chassis should be just a rigid, (for the most part). Then you can do some motor work, and in the end you have saved money,and got yourself better looking car and also one that doesn't weigh 2 tons so maybe it will be able to actually go around corners, (Wasn't that one of SVT's biggest goals?....A more rounded package for more than just straight line driving...Seems to me they are failing miserably :( ). So, what is the appeal of this new car :confused: Or any of the new Mustangs for that matter...Would someone please explain it to me, 'cause I'm stumped :confused:

Omegalock

07-20-2005, 08:35 PM

Yet IIRC the new GT is close to the handling of the current Cobra if not better. Yay sucks to be Ford.

:rolleyes:

Let's wait and see what it will do before we start making claims about it being a horrible handler. People said that about the GT and it obviously is doing rather well for itself.

slayerxxx213

07-20-2005, 09:38 PM

Fair enough, I meant to put in that only time would tell about the new Cobra's performance...Regardless, I'm not impressed as of yet with it...You never know though ;) The one thing I found is that the new GT is unproportional looking, (the rear end looks huge and too long), when your up next to it and you don't really realize it as much in the pics. The new Cobra looks nice for what it is but my vote goes for the Terminator, at least in the looks department :)

PS: What does IIRC mean?

guesswhoo

07-20-2005, 10:12 PM

I have seen a mule in person with no vents on the hood. It is plain jane. There are a BUNCH and I do mean a BUNCH! of mules running around.

I sure hope the hood in the link provided does not make it. Or I just may keep my 04...... Who the hell am I kidding! :D

Actually. The seats are my only concern. If they feel nicer then the 04's Im all over it. SVT screwed the seats up in the 04. 01's were way nicer.

BigBlueCruiser

07-21-2005, 01:35 AM

...However, you can't argue with that kind of power for that price, and as much as I don't like the new stangs, I could look past their suckiness for a vehicle with that kind of raw potential.

I wouldn't call a car that'll blow the doors off a C6 potential. It's realized.

Now the potential is there to go Z06 hunting.

91_z28_4me

07-21-2005, 07:06 AM

I wouldn't call a car that'll blow the doors off a C6 potential. It's realized.

Now the potential is there to go Z06 hunting.
I would say that NO mustang based car will be hunting a 3100 lb 500 hp hardcore Z06 no matter how much power you make it put out it will NOT be able to touch the Z06 because it just couldn't get the grip, on factory tires, to touch it in the 1/4 and we know that the Z06 would rip it to shreds in the curves. Now if you are talking about a 2 seat Shelby Cobra then I could see that but it would have NOTHING based on Mustang at all.

ProudPony

07-21-2005, 08:00 AM

I would say that NO mustang based car will be hunting a 3100 lb 500 hp hardcore Z06 no matter how much power you make it put out it will NOT be able to touch the Z06 because it just couldn't get the grip, on factory tires, to touch it in the 1/4 and we know that the Z06 would rip it to shreds in the curves. Now if you are talking about a 2 seat Shelby Cobra then I could see that but it would have NOTHING based on Mustang at all.

And I would say you need to get out of the house more often and go to the tracks...
I just spent 3 days watching the current 03/04 Cobras duke it out with 03/04 Z06 cars on a 14-turn, 2.4 mile road course. Both modded with cages, brakes, and such. These cars are nothing short of spectacular - BOTH of them. I was riding in a modded 2004 Z06 when we got passed by a 2003 Cobra, and the Cobra pushed us through 4 or 5 turns waiting for the pass. Granted, I added about 200lbs of disadvantage to the Z06 I was in, but still - I'm telling you, these cars are PHENOMENAL.

What I saw (and rode in) led me to the conclusion that the cars are so closely matched (even after mods) that it comes down to driver ability and who made the least # of mistakes. Given the new Z06 has more power (which probably won't matter much since the 03/04 cars there were modded anyways) and given the new weight distribution, suspension, and power of the new GT500 (which probably won't matter much since the 03/04 cars there were modded anyways) - I'd say they are still going to be duking it out pretty steady and even!

And don't get your panties wadded all up over the power and/or handling either. Both are required for a performance car, but trade-offs are viable. I saw my instructor in his 1986 BMW 325 with a 170hp I6 hanging right in there with the Porsche 914's, Corvettes, and Cobras. Oh he got passed, but not embarrased - I can assure you.

I stated in another thread that I am utterly amazed (and pleasantly surprised) at how the Cobra and Z06 have come to dominate the open track sessions around the country lately. There seems to have been some unspoken "revolution" about 3 years ago which ushered out the imports, and ushered in the Z06 and Cobra. It really did my heart good to see so many dominating over Porsches, BMWs, Lotus', and the like at recent events.

Not flaming or ripping at you ar anyone else in this thread, just trying to post some actual experience and first-hand observations to invite folks not to do too much armchair quarterbacking based on some numbers we are still basically guessing at because neither car is in full-blown production yet.

BigBlueCruiser

07-21-2005, 12:11 PM

RussStang

07-21-2005, 12:46 PM

91_z28_4me

07-21-2005, 01:25 PM

I think the new Cobra seems great and all, but I still don't think it is going z06 hunting. Sorry. A car with less power (or perhaps the same, let us see the dyno graphs first) and 750lbs on the z06 is not going to be its road course nightmare. The new Cobra will mod easy, but so will the new LS7. Guys at ls1tech.com are already talking about 100rwhp gains with just a cam and longtubes, due to the nature of the engine being so restricted.

Its also not that easy to get an 11 flat out of an 03/04, and still keep it competitive in the twisties. The cars don't launch very well, at least in my experience, and need a much better suspension setup for the strip. Probably also going to need to swap out the stock eaton for another power adder, or at least spray it. Besides, I could buy a used z06 for around $30k and spray the car in the low 11s for cheap as well, so that is no huge feat there.

I am in more of a position to buy a GT500 than a new z06, and I would certainly buy the GT500 if the Camaro alternative in the next few years isn't up to spec, but I still live in reality, and know that the new z06 is simply more car.

Thank you.

Now Proud I have a lot of respect for the 03/04 Cobra and the GT500 BUT if a Z06 is lighter by over 500 lbs AND has the same power who do you think is going to win?

Lets not get into mods because then it is the person with the most money who will win and we all know it. Stock for stock a C6 Z06 WILL walk a GT500 in the 1/4 and in the twisties.

Now if the GT500 has an optional IRS it will be heavier AND it will not launch as well but may handle better in the curves. It is a tradeoff.

Belive me NOBODY at Ford said let take on the new Z06 with a Mustang based car. They said lets make the Baddest @ss Mustang based car we can and see how well it sells and how well it performs.

johnsocal

07-21-2005, 04:53 PM

Im not the biggest fan of the Stang but that looks pretty hot!

BigBlueCruiser

07-21-2005, 06:25 PM

I think the new Cobra seems great and all, but I still don't think it is going z06 hunting. Sorry. A car with less power (or perhaps the same, let us see the dyno graphs first) and 750lbs on the z06 is not going to be its road course nightmare. The new Cobra will mod easy, but so will the new LS7. Guys at ls1tech.com are already talking about 100rwhp gains with just a cam and longtubes, due to the nature of the engine being so restricted.

Its also not that easy to get an 11 flat out of an 03/04, and still keep it competitive in the twisties. The cars don't launch very well, at least in my experience, and need a much better suspension setup for the strip. Probably also going to need to swap out the stock eaton for another power adder, or at least spray it. Besides, I could buy a used z06 for around $30k and spray the car in the low 11s for cheap as well, so that is no huge feat there.

I am in more of a position to buy a GT500 than a new z06, and I would certainly buy the GT500 if the Camaro alternative in the next few years isn't up to spec, but I still live in reality, and know that the new z06 is simply more car.

Well on the roadcourse part, Mr. Pony is relating real world observations of how close the 2 current models are. Will this continue in the next gen? Don't know.

On the quarter mile, there are plenty of Cobra's running around 11flat at near 130mph. The combos are varied but not exotic at all. Usually amounts to little more than blower swap/tuning/tires/half shafts. And nobody toots their horn over a nitrous run.

Bottom line. If I want to go hunting new Z06's in a MODDED GT500 next year, odds are I'm going to notch plenty of victories. Will there be a faster modded Z06 than a pullied/tuned Cobra? Probably. Do I care? Nope. 99% will be Cobra food.

There isn't going to be a Camaro alternative to the GT500, as it already exceeds the C6's performance levels. So for more money you can get a slower Vette. Or for a LOT MORE money you can get a much faster Vette. Either way, I agree the Vette is a better overall sports car than the Mustang, but there's no need to deny the obvious results of a blown 5.4 DOHC.

Chrome383Z

07-21-2005, 07:03 PM

I can't get into the new Mustangs. Not my cup of tea as far as looks. And a friend bought one and he says it "just doesn't feel like it has enough power." (He used to driving a LS1 TA).

I'd pay alittle extra for a C6 with less horsepower then the Cobra. And don't think I'm bashing Ford either because if the new Camaro's suspension is similar to the Ford Mustang I'd still buy a lower HP C6 over a 450hp Camaro!!! (Hopefully GM goes with something new and better not old school.)

Cobra owners can accelerate your brick to 130mph in the 1/4 Mile, I'll take the turns at 130mph while my wife gives me a :eek: !!! ;)

Z284ever

07-22-2005, 01:01 AM

Oh come on guys!

Sure the GT-500 will be fast. But does anyone really think a 3850 lbs Mustang with a live rear axle and front struts is going to outrun an '06 Z06?

Schismblade

07-22-2005, 01:15 AM

Unfortunately, nothing GM has or will have (short of a 70k Z06) will be able to come even close to it performance wise. :(

Schismblade

07-22-2005, 01:16 AM

Oh come on guys!

Sure the GT-500 will be fast. But does anyone really think a 3850 lbs Mustang with a live rear axle and front struts is going to outrun an '06 Z06? Not a chance in hell. :D

91Z28350

07-22-2005, 01:39 AM

Not a chance in hell. :D

Nope, and mod for mod, the Z06 will still eat it. Does that make the Cobra bad? Hell NO! But come on Ford Fans, give the'vette credit where credit is due. I think the GT 500 MIGHT be able to beat a Z51 in a straight line ( the 'Vette does weigh 500 lbs less, which is good for about .5 sec by the calculations I am aware of) but mod for mod, again I BELIEVE a Z51 equipped 'Vette will beat it. We shall see. Personally, I think it is a cool car, and might have considered one if I did not believe that the Camaro will return.

On a seperate note, we have heard that car will retail somewhere between 35-40K (39k keeps getting thrown around, though I was not aware of any offical Ford announcement of the fact). My question is, what level of standard equipment will the car have at that price point? If it is a stripped down model (if it comes with a lot of standard equipment ala the GTO (forgive me not knowing) wouldn't it quickly start into 'Vette territory price wise?

For that matter, since everyone keeps talking about how they will be comparable to a Z06 when modded, couldn't I buy a GTO, spend the equivalent dollars on modding that car (ZL402 enginie, or Lingenfelter SC upgrades come to mind) and go snake hunting? And just in case a Camaro does come out, chances are very good I could buy both those upgrades (supercharge the ZL402!) and be within dollars of the GT500 in price.

I guess my point, which is aimed at the guys who think the GT 500 is the second coming, is that yes the GT500 is a sweet ride. but, it is not the be all end all. I still believe that short of production numbers and tests (since we are all bench racing) proving otherwise, the Z06 will be the better car, albeit at a signifacntly higher price (approx 26K base difference based on the GT500's estimated $39k)

Bob Cosby

07-22-2005, 02:09 AM

Cobra's have always come very loaded from the factory. You might have an option for polished wheels and perhaps a stereo - but that's about it - so MSRP's won't climb much with the very limited options available. Dealer markups when they come out will be a whole nuther matter.

As for the Shelby Cobra vs the new Z06....gimme a break. The Z06 most certainly SHOULD own the Cobra - it has every advantage on its side, with the possible exception of actual power to the ground (easily made up in the weight difference). Of course, it will also cost ~65% more too. Whether or not it is worth it is up to you.

When the mods start - all bets are off....especially in a straight line.

Personally, I'd take a 2007 Z06 over a 2007 Cobra any day of the week....if I had $65k to throw at a car (unless I want to spend my kid's college fund.....hmmmmmm). But I don't, so the Z06 isn't even an option for me. The Cobra? *Maybe*. Then again, if I had $150k (or $250K) to throw at a car, I'd pick the GT over the Z06 (recall be damned). But I don't have that either, and would rather have a new house back in Texas in a couple of years when I retire from the USN. :)

RussStang

07-22-2005, 02:43 AM

Well on the roadcourse part, Mr. Pony is relating real world observations of how close the 2 current models are. Will this continue in the next gen? Don't know.

On the quarter mile, there are plenty of Cobra's running around 11flat at near 130mph. The combos are varied but not exotic at all. Usually amounts to little more than blower swap/tuning/tires/half shafts. And nobody toots their horn over a nitrous run.

Bottom line. If I want to go hunting new Z06's in a MODDED GT500 next year, odds are I'm going to notch plenty of victories. Will there be a faster modded Z06 than a pullied/tuned Cobra? Probably. Do I care? Nope. 99% will be Cobra food.

There isn't going to be a Camaro alternative to the GT500, as it already exceeds the C6's performance levels. So for more money you can get a slower Vette. Or for a LOT MORE money you can get a much faster Vette. Either way, I agree the Vette is a better overall sports car than the Mustang, but there's no need to deny the obvious results of a blown 5.4 DOHC.

Bottom line: This is all your conjecture, so it matters little to me. I think your statistic is more than a little off there. Maybe you should wait until the car is released, because you are the only one who sees your own observations as gospel.

Also, where did I deny the potential of the blown 5.4? Was it the part of my post that said I might actually consider one in a few months? Or is it where I said the vehicle's has plenty of raw potential?

I still do not think that a GT500 is going to get around a road course faster than even a base c6. In a drag race, sure, I bet it would be a great match up. Just not on a road course. It is going to take more than someone's experiences at a driving school to convince me. There is a reason why the SCCA ranks these cars in different categories (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2005/stockc.html), because they need to be put in different categories. In very few racing scenarios I have seen do Mustangs and Corvettes go head to head with each other. Doesn't happen very often.

Morginie

07-22-2005, 02:44 AM

Well of course this thing isn't gonna touch the Z06!
With enough mods it will beat the c6 z06 in the 1/4 mile

BUT I doubt it will ever touch it in the twisties.

The point is the GT500 is one hell of a bargain. That much car for that much money is awesome. More performance than a vette for much cheaper price.

I'm thinking GM should up vette performance numbers without upping price. THis would make it more competitive with GT500, and leave room for camaro. But I don't think many people cross shop between a corvette and a mustang...

Even if they didn't up the vette hp, camaro has lots of room to smoke mustang GT.

it only needs 340 hp to take out GT, plus if its smaller and lighter wieght it will eliminate GT in twisties.

91Z28350

07-22-2005, 02:58 AM

BTW Bob, nice Cobra! I just checked out your page, 544 RWHP is no joke! Only question, how does she hookup? Looks like you would smoke those skins bad.

guesswhoo

07-22-2005, 04:43 AM

Well, Beings SVT is going after the C6 (Not Z06) how will it compare then?....

(The Z06 comparo to me a Ford GUY! was a no go)

This should keep this going til page 8. :D

ProudPony

07-22-2005, 07:33 AM

Take me off the list of voting EITHER WAY - that was not my intent with my previous post.
My message was to those of you who do not/can not get to an actual track and race these cars first hand, and the message is that pure raw data like RWHP, weight, and Cd are not the final words in a car's performance. Sure they contribute - but they are NOT definitive.
For example, I hear that the new Z06 is heading north of the 200mph barrier... that's awesome. But since the GT500 doesn't even have the body to go that fast without flipping itself, you can alter the tranny and rear axle gears to offer MUCH better acceleration and keep yourself in the power band of the engine between 50 and 130mph. Does that matter? Ask any NASCAR driver that had the wrong gearing under the car for a given track... anybody here recall the days back in 1997-1998 when Dale Earnhardt and Richard Childress were leaving EVERYBODY on restarts at Daytona, Talladega, and Atlanta? He pulled 20 car lengths on everybody in the first lap, but it wasn't because his car was lighter, had that much more hp, or because he was shifting better.... they had improved their total gearing package for the conditions - optimizing 2-3 and 3-4 shift points to match the engine's power band. IT WORKS.
The new automatic trannys in the 2005 Mustang GT is another good example of this approach. They out-accelerate cars with MUCH more power until they hit 4th, then they roll over and die. But if you just run stoplight to stoplight or take a short burst, it's gonna be a tough cookie to beat even with a 400hp car geared for high-end efficiency.

So many other things go into the "fastest car" thing too.
My biggest lesson at the most recent event was tires and brakes. With the H-rated Hankook AWR street tires on my SSP, I can lite 'em up anytime I want in 1st or 2nd, and bark 'em hard in 3rd. Bolt on a set of Fuzion ZRi tires (same size) and I can hardly get more than a bark power-shifting 2nd, and no more than a chirp into 3rd. The additional grip in those tires BLEW ME AWAY!!! I had the throttle hammered to the floor at the apex of every turn on the track and never had the powerslide function engaged - NEVER. (It was kind of disappointing actually, because I was wanting to do some nice power drifts just for kicks.)

Brakes are HUGE factors in road-racing. Probably the MOST significant contributor to lower times in fact. Z06's come with fantasic brakes stock, but most guys at the event had modded theirs with fluid, calipers, and cryogenic treatment of the rotors. Any w-compound pads will work once hot, but you can expect 2 days of fun per set of pads, and expect 8-10 days of fun between rotors. Cobra guys have the benefit of the Brembo units already. The cars are fat pigs, but Brembo units seem to handle the task well. No caliper changes, no fluid change until servicing is required, and the same treatment with pads and rotors as the Z06's. To a complete stop from 120, the Vette has an advantage of a few feet, but when it comes to scrubbing-off 60mph (from 120 down to 60) for a turn - there is virtually no difference between the two on the track. A blind man would not know which car he was in - again, I rode in both (and no, I'm not blind! :D ).

So look, I'm not here to say the '07 GT500 will own the '07 Z06. Quite the opposite actually - I'm saying these two cars, collectively, will own everything else being raced on road courses that doesn't cost $100k or more. As for how they size each other up - NOBODY, but NOBODY in this world (and especially on this board) can sit here and say for sure that one will dominate the other in any competitive category because the cars are not even built yet... PERIOD.
We will see when they meet on the tracks, and I'm sure they will. :cool:

Until they do, my advice is to be very thoughtful and consciencious about your predictions because things in the real world are not always as they seem on paper (or the computer monitor). I can assure you that neither one will embarass the other on any road course (or 1/4-mile) in this country though, and as I said before, I think it will come down to driver ability more than anything. THERE'S MY PREDICTION - print it.

[edit]PS - I have about 140 pics of the weekend I spent at CMP in South Carolina, if anybody cares, I can post a few of the cars I ran against and rode in, but I need to get to my PC at home to upload them. (Why won't this forum allow image attachments! :mad: )
Also, I was most dis-heartened at the fact that there was not one single F-body at the event - not ONE in more than 170 cars. Mustangs were most numerous, followed by Vettes, then Porsches, then BMWs, and then a smorgasbord of everything else from Ferraris, Masseratis, CTSv, 2004 GTO, T-bird Turbo Coupe, Audi TT, G35 Sport Coupe, and even a couple of Miatas and a VW Golf (man were they out of their league at this event!). Most awesome car there IMO was a black 2000 Crown Vic (P71 package aka "Cop Car") that had a Vortech unit huffing into the 4.6 with good lung capacity - the car did phenomenally well. I think the guy was getting irritated at everybody wanting a ride in it!

Z284ever

07-22-2005, 11:04 AM

[edit]PS - I have about 140 pics of the weekend I spent at CMP in South Carolina, if anybody cares, I can post a few of the cars I ran against and rode in, but I need to get to my PC at home to upload them. (Why won't this forum allow image attachments! :mad: )
Also, I was most dis-heartened at the fact that there was not one single F-body at the event - not ONE in more than 170 cars. Mustangs were most numerous, followed by Vettes, then Porsches, then BMWs, and then a smorgasbord of everything else from Ferraris, Masseratis, CTSv, 2004 GTO, T-bird Turbo Coupe, Audi TT, G35 Sport Coupe, and even a couple of Miatas and a VW Golf (man were they out of their league at this event!). Most awesome car there IMO was a black 2000 Crown Vic (P71 package aka "Cop Car") that had a Vortech unit huffing into the 4.6 with good lung capacity - the car did phenomenally well. I think the guy was getting irritated at everybody wanting a ride in it!

Yeah, I'd like to see some pics.

And that is disappointing about no F-cars.

Slappy3243

07-22-2005, 11:15 AM

That car is badass. I would buy one in a heartbeat (funds permitting of course :) ).

Chris 96 WS6

07-22-2005, 11:15 AM

So look, I'm not here to say the '07 GT500 will own the '07 Z06. Quite the opposite actually - I'm saying these two cars, collectively, will own everything else being raced on road courses that doesn't cost $100k or more. As for how they size each other up - NOBODY, but NOBODY in this world (and especially on this board) can sit here and say for sure that one will dominate the other in any competitive category because the cars are not even built yet... PERIOD.

I can, and will. The Z06 will OWN the Cobra....period. Owned = winning, however so slightly, in every objective measure of performance.

And as well it should, its lighter, lower, wider, has more HP, tq, wider tires, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm actually dumbfounded somebody's even making the suggestion this is up in the air, when the real shootout is Z06 vs. Ford GT.

Chris 96 WS6

07-22-2005, 11:23 AM

For example, I hear that the new Z06 is heading north of the 200mph barrier... that's awesome. But since the GT500 doesn't even have the body to go that fast without flipping itself, you can alter the tranny and rear axle gears to offer MUCH better acceleration and keep yourself in the power band of the engine between 50 and 130mph. Does that matter? Ask any NASCAR driver that had the wrong gearing under the car for a given track... anybody here recall the days back in 1997-1998 when Dale Earnhardt and Richard Childress were leaving EVERYBODY on restarts at Daytona, Talladega, and Atlanta? He pulled 20 car lengths on everybody in the first lap, but it wasn't because his car was lighter, had that much more hp, or because he was shifting better.... they had improved their total gearing package for the conditions - optimizing 2-3 and 3-4 shift points to match the engine's power band. IT WORKS.

Do you think before you post? Gearing, yeah, that's great, but let me see...Dale won 1 race in those two years combined....so restarts, that's great, but once you get up to speed you wind out at a lower speed and get passed on the straighaways. Restarts are only relevant if its like 2 laps to the checkers. What that has to do with anything at hand here is beyond me.

Further, what's that have to do with the Ford having more accel? Sure you can mod it and change the gears, but so can the Z06 owner....anything other than a stock vs. stock comparo here is irrelevant, because all bets are always off anytime you are discussing two modded cars.

But factory for factory, you're also limited to fuel efficiency considerations. So its not like Ford is going to go put a 4.11 in the Cobra just to out accel the Z06, especially with the brick-like aero of the Mustang, its got enough drag on its hands it going to need all the help it can get to beat the gas guzzler tax. Gimme a break.

200 mph? That's what 6th gear is for...you don't need to gear the car up so high. Plus all I've heard from the release to now is the Zo6 will top out about 190, not 200.

BigBlueCruiser

07-22-2005, 01:15 PM

91Z28350

07-22-2005, 01:47 PM

Well there's a lot of people hearing what they want to hear.

1) Stock v stock : Z06 rapes the GT500

2) A stock Z06 won't run anywhere near 11flat@130

3) '03/'04 Cobras are running 11flat@130 on the stock POS IRS + halfshafts

4) Modded GT500s will run faster than equivalent modded '03/'04s

5) Therefore => insert logic here

Roadracing? Who cares? This is America we don't care about turning.

1) Agreed

2) Neither will most cars.

3) See post 2, not stock cars running 11 flat. Even if the IRS is the same, the engine has been modded.

4) Granted

5) Therefore an equally modded Z06 still eats the GT 500/Cobra.

Lots of people care about roadracing.

RussStang

07-22-2005, 02:05 PM

Well there's a lot of people writing what they want to believe is true.

.

Fixed that right up.

There really isn't a comparison to be drawn here between the two vehicles, at least not a sane one.

I really have to disagree with nuber 3 though, because I know that if they are turning 11 flat on stock rear end, they aren't doing it too often until something decides to stop working.

Bob Cosby

07-22-2005, 02:11 PM

Do you think before you post?

Speaking of which....

200 mph? That's what 6th gear is for...

With a 3.42 gear and a 7000 rpm redline, it is rather unlikely that the Z06 will top out in 6th gear, don't you think?

I may be biased, and though I don't always completely agree with him (this thread being one of those cases), I kinda think (bad word) that Proud puts quite a bit of thought into his posts - but that's just me.

I live in a glass house though, so I'll quit throwing stones. :D

Chuck!

07-22-2005, 02:38 PM

6 piston brakes on the new Z06... yum. Can't wait until we figure out a way to adapt them to the thirdgen :)

btw - most entertaining comment:
"Usually amounts to little more than blower swap/tuning/tires/half shafts"

Man what is major moding, strapping down a GE90 to the trunk?

ProudPony

07-22-2005, 05:19 PM

Speaking of which....

With a 3.42 gear and a 7000 rpm redline, it is rather unlikely that the Z06 will top out in 6th gear, don't you think?

I may be biased, and though I don't always completely agree with him (this thread being one of those cases), I kinda think (bad word) that Proud puts quite a bit of thought into his posts - but that's just me.

I live in a glass house though, so I'll quit throwing stones. :D
Thanks for the kind words... I think?!?! ;)
I'm not responding to junk like his last post anymore - it's not worth it to me.
I read 'em 10 minutes after he posted them, then went back to work. :rolleyes:

You know, logic is not always cut and dried. Sometimes we have to look past the tree to see the forest (or dig a little deeper than the first 3 bits of information we get).

Suppose I give you a 3600lb pig with a 390 hp engine, short wheelbase, narrower front track dimension, higher center of gravity, and a higher drag coefficient. Then I give you a 3200lb pig with a 405 hp engine, longer wheelbase, wider track dimension, lower Cg, and lower Cd.
Which one is going to be the best performer in all racing venues?

Well, with my own eyes, I see the first car (your basic 03/04 Cobra) passing me on the right while I am in the 2nd car (a 2004 Z06) doing 127mph down the frontstretch at CMP at @5800rpm in 4th (yes, I am watching the guy's dash while we are not in the turns).
Make sense... NO.:no:
Did it happen... Yup. :thumb:
Both guys were instructors at a high-performance driving school with many years experience doing this stuff, and they KNOW cars. They also know each other, and I was parked right between them for the entire weekend. Had dinner with them on Saturday night. They have matched their cars many times... sometimes the Vette wins, sometimes the Cobra. One thing is for sure - neither of them ever concedes a thing to the other!

Again, the higher priced Z06 SHOULD outgun the GT500 - and likely will when both are in stock trim... but it won't be an embarassment. And when the original pads are worn, tires are gone, shocks breakdown, and the replacement parts start coming on (aka "mods"), then all bets are off.
I will know which cars is dominant when we get to the track... period.
Until then, I just sit back, reserve judgement, and think of how awesome they both are compared to the rest of the competition. :cool:

PS - I'm home now so I will upload some (just a few because they are high res) images of the CMP event. May take a few moments to FTP them.

ProudPony

07-22-2005, 09:59 PM

Yeah, I'd like to see some pics.

And that is disappointing about no F-cars.
Just for you Charlie!!! :thumb:
I have 140 digitals plus 2 movies, and a buddy sent me 120 more images that he and his son took while I was in my car driving. The files are HUGE. It took me almost 1 hour to shrink these before ftp'ing them to the server.

IMO, this borders on thread hijacking... My appologies to the originator.
So if you are interested in more images (action shots on the track and such of various cars - including the RX7 that crashed), help me find a website to host the images/movies full-size and I will upload them - I have a T1 connection here at home.

The Cobra that passed me in the Z06 (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0310.JPG) He was street-legal, but changed tires and flashed for the track.
My SSP and the Cobra (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0316.JPG) We got thereFriday morning about 10 minutes apart and parked together.
The Z06 I got to ride in a few times (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0320.JPG) What a wonderful guy! He was very cool, and taught me a lot about the track and driving. :bow: The "I7" on his window indicates he is an instructor. He parked beside me on the right.
New C6 that made the event (ran well too). (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0335.JPG) The guy with the red Z06 was the instructor to the guy with this C6. He said it really handled well for a base C6, but he wouldn't trade his Z06 for it, and he didn't like the exposed headlights either.
GTO, Porsche, Fox-bodys, Cobras, BMW's and others... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0339.JPG)
Tech inspection line with 2 Cobras and CTSv (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0342.JPG)
On track in my car, ahead is an SVO, Porsche, and Cobra (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0349.JPG)
Turn 8 from my car... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0350.JPG) these photos are during "touring laps" behind a pace car at about 70mph (that's how I was able to pick-up the camera and shoot a few).
Another FAST Cobra all by himself... (again) (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0353.JPG)
A couple of Vettes that made it... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0360.JPG)
GTO, Mach 1, 05 Mustang GT, 04 Cobra, and others waiting in the starting grid... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0012a.JPG)
This is about 1/2 of my division rolling onto the track for hot laps (I am further back)... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0017a.JPG)
Another grid lineup... this time I am the 3rd in line. (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0073a.JPG) I am in the car... see my elbow! :D
Hot action... the Vette and I cleared everyone (I am just behind the Vette at this point). (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0125a.JPG)
Vette and Bimmer duke it out... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0142a.JPG)
More Vettes and Bimmers... (http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/IMG_0144a.JPG)

I have a slew of pics - I think I got every car there but don't have the room to post them all!.

Maybe the point to me posting these (aside from Charlie's request) is a tiny attempt to prove to some of you that I am not making this stuff up... I go out and run these things. I drag, bracket race, autoX, and road race. I love them all, and they are all RADICALLY different from each other in how drive them, how you set-up your car, and how your car responds. I get the chance to see these cars perform at their max, and it is not always so cut and dried as internet posters make it out to be.

Bottom line is that any 5th gen Camaro, any Corvette, any Z06, and any GT500 will need to come to events like this and provide the driver with a thrill (win or lose), because THAT is what will make the enthusiasts happy and keep the image of the cars alive. There were 2 2005 V6 Mustangs at this event, and the drivers couldn't have smiled more if they were in a Ferrari Testarossa. THAT'S a sign of a successful design.

Enjoy the pics.

(PS - Charlie, the '76 Camaro RS brought $2250... I hung tight to $1500 then bailed to bid on another Mustang SSP 5spd which went for $1977. ;) )

Z284ever

07-22-2005, 10:23 PM

Bob Cosby

07-22-2005, 10:46 PM

www.putfile.com will host your vids. I have several on there...

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=cosby1162
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=CosbyMIR
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=bobcosbyinterview1
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=cosby1195

Anything under 10mb is fair game. :)

Pandamonkey

07-22-2005, 11:48 PM

That's pretty damn cool.

Snorman

07-23-2005, 10:41 AM

Why, oh why, do people insist on comparing GM's 2-seater, $70k+, flagship sports-car to Ford's 4-seater, $40k uplevel ponycar?
:confused:

And when a C6 Z06 is looking at my taillights on a hit from a light, I really don't care how well it can barrel into a turn.

That's just me.
:D
S.

RussStang

07-23-2005, 12:13 PM

Thanks for the kind words... I think?!?! ;)
I'm not responding to junk like his last post anymore - it's not worth it to me.
I read 'em 10 minutes after he posted them, then went back to work. :rolleyes:

You know, logic is not always cut and dried. Sometimes we have to look past the tree to see the forest (or dig a little deeper than the first 3 bits of information we get).

Suppose I give you a 3600lb pig with a 390 hp engine, short wheelbase, narrower front track dimension, higher center of gravity, and a higher drag coefficient. Then I give you a 3200lb pig with a 405 hp engine, longer wheelbase, wider track dimension, lower Cg, and lower Cd.
Which one is going to be the best performer in all racing venues?

Well, with my own eyes, I see the first car (your basic 03/04 Cobra) passing me on the right while I am in the 2nd car (a 2004 Z06) doing 127mph down the frontstretch at CMP at @5800rpm in 4th (yes, I am watching the guy's dash while we are not in the turns).
Make sense... NO.:no:
Did it happen... Yup. :thumb:
Both guys were instructors at a high-performance driving school with many years experience doing this stuff, and they KNOW cars. They also know each other, and I was parked right between them for the entire weekend. Had dinner with them on Saturday night. They have matched their cars many times... sometimes the Vette wins, sometimes the Cobra. One thing is for sure - neither of them ever concedes a thing to the other!

Again, the higher priced Z06 SHOULD outgun the GT500 - and likely will when both are in stock trim... but it won't be an embarassment. And when the original pads are worn, tires are gone, shocks breakdown, and the replacement parts start coming on (aka "mods"), then all bets are off.
I will know which cars is dominant when we get to the track... period.
Until then, I just sit back, reserve judgement, and think of how awesome they both are compared to the rest of the competition. :cool:

PS - I'm home now so I will upload some (just a few because they are high res) images of the CMP event. May take a few moments to FTP them.

I never meant to insinuate that your opinion was trash with my remarks, as I am sure the teachers at the school have plenty of backround in performance racing. I just can't help but notice that in an all out full race trim scenario, Vettes are always placed in a higher tier racing bracket than Mustangs, and there is a reason behind that madness. You could probably make a Mustang move faster around the track than a new Ferrari F430, but in full race trim I really really doubt the Mustang will have a chance against the Ferrari.

I did not mean to imply any disrespect though, except maybe to bigbluecruiser, as he is to Ford as Redzed is to Nissan (although I think Redzed writes his posts much better.)

ProudPony

07-24-2005, 11:15 AM

Cool pics Proud. And I was wondering if you ever bought that car. The SSP Mustang was probably the better deal.

BTW, is that blue masking tape on a couple of those Vettes? http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/track/100_0360.JPG

That's a good idea.

I hung in there up to $1500 as I said I would, but the bidding went nuts in the last few minutes. I was amazed the car broke $2k. Maybe that is a good sign that the market is smiling on these old 1970's vintage Camaros, Firebirds, and Mustangs.
And yes, you can't go wrong with an original 77k mile SSP 5-spd car for $1977.

As for the tape...you are close - it's not masking tape but a type of vinyl tape (like electrical tape). It has low tack so it won't leave adhesive on the finish when removed, and it is thicker for addidtional protection.
Guys with $50-70k in their cars seem driven to protect their finish from stone chips, rubber, and road debris. :confused:
Hell, I buy 'em to DRIVE 'EM!!! :D No tape for me thanks.

The guy with the CTSv used about a half-roll on his car because he hadn't had it but 3 months... it ended up half covered! I don't blame him though... the car was awesome - I can't describe to you how cool that car sounded screaming down the frontstretch.

ProudPony

07-24-2005, 11:59 AM

I never meant to insinuate that your opinion was trash with my remarks, as I am sure the teachers at the school have plenty of backround in performance racing. I just can't help but notice that in an all out full race trim scenario, Vettes are always placed in a higher tier racing bracket than Mustangs, and there is a reason behind that madness. You could probably make a Mustang move faster around the track than a new Ferrari F430, but in full race trim I really really doubt the Mustang will have a chance against the Ferrari.

I did not mean to imply any disrespect though, except maybe to bigbluecruiser, as he is to Ford as Redzed is to Nissan (although I think Redzed writes his posts much better.)

No foul, no harm.
I'm a big boy anyways, I can take some heat from time to time.
Your posts were not really the ones that were found disrespectful anyways.

I just get ripped when some people sit in front of a keyboard for hours, read a few posts and see a few stats, and think all things in the real world "must comply". Once in a while, I try to bring some reality back into a discussion - sometimes it sticks, sometimes I end up wearing it. :o

:thumb:

BigBlueCruiser

07-24-2005, 06:24 PM

1) Agreed

2) Neither will most cars.

3) See post 2, not stock cars running 11 flat. Even if the IRS is the same, the engine has been modded.

4) Granted

5) Therefore an equally modded Z06 still eats the GT 500/Cobra.

Lots of people care about roadracing.

1) Agreed.
2) One of those few being a lightly modded GT500.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed. a Z06 owner who drops a $20K SC/Forged shortblock LS7 in will whup a spooled up GT500 with a pulley/exhaust/tune

I knew it was a simple communication problem.

91Z28350

07-24-2005, 06:56 PM

1) Agreed.
2) One of those few being a lightly modded GT500.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed. a Z06 owner who drops a $20K SC/Forged shortblock LS7 in will whup a spooled up GT500 with a pulley/exhaust/tune

I knew it was a simple communication problem.

At this point let's agree to disagree about points 2 and 5, and wait for the cars to come out. The Cobra is a fine car, and very well may be the ultimate pony car to date if it performs up to expectations, but the Z06 is in another realm.

BigBlueCruiser

07-24-2005, 11:51 PM

...The Cobra is a fine car, and very well may be the ultimate pony car to date if it performs up to expectations, but the Z06 is in another realm.

I'll go ahead and disagree with this statement as well. Now we'll just wait for next summer.

RussStang

07-25-2005, 01:55 PM

I'll go ahead and disagree with this statement as well. Now we'll just wait for next summer.

And you may well be one of the only people in this world that thinks the way you do (besides some extreme pro-Ford guys like yourself on the internet). I'll go ahead and say that there is absolutely no doubt as to what the magazines will think, or the press, as to that effect either.

RussStang

07-25-2005, 01:58 PM

5) Agreed. a Z06 owner who drops a $20K SC/Forged shortblock LS7 in will whup a spooled up GT500 with a pulley/exhaust/tune

Way to hyper exaggerate the price. Didn't know they were charging $20k for low compression forged pistons now. Its ok though, in case you didn't know, the new z06 is coming with the ls7 already installed, so the owners won't need to drop a shortblock in.

I am not trying to say the GT500 sucks, because it in no way does, but your ridiculous Ford rhetoric seems to know no bounds.

ZZtop

07-27-2005, 03:34 AM

1) Agreed.
2) One of those few being a lightly modded GT500.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) Agreed. a Z06 owner who drops a $20K SC/Forged shortblock LS7 in will whup a spooled up GT500 with a pulley/exhaust/tune

I knew it was a simple communication problem.

2) It is very likely that a C6 Z06 with Drag Radials can accomplish low 11's. Predictions from most sources seem to be mid 11's on street tires.

Remember that some C5 Z06's hit high 11's bone stock!

I'll go ahead and disagree with this statement as well. Now we'll just wait for next summer.

We will not need to wait until next summer. There will be a Z06 vs. Ford GT comparison long before that and it will put any hopes of a GT500 vs. Z06 compaison to rest.

Does anyone doubt that the Z06 will out brake the Ford GT (C5 Z did!)?
Does anyone doubt that the GT will have a higher top speed than the Z06?
Does anyone doubt that laptimes will be very very close?
Does anyone doubt that 1/4 mile times will be very close?

What the Z lacks in power it makes up for in braking and weight. These two cars will be very very close in competition and of course we will have to wait for numbers until we can know for sure. The Z lapped Nurburgring in 7:42.9 but we cant compare that to the Ford GT because it didnt even run THE WORLDS ROADRACING BENCHMARK! I guess the best way to make sure you dont "tarnish" the GT40 heritage is not to run the car?!?

Once we see Z06 numbers and compare them to the Ford GT, or read a Ford GT vs. Z06 comparison, this GT500 talk will be laughable.

BigBlueCruiser

07-27-2005, 02:02 PM

2) It is very likely that a C6 Z06 with Drag Radials can accomplish low 11's. Predictions from most sources seem to be mid 11's on street tires.

Remember that some C5 Z06's hit high 11's bone stock!

Yup. I myself predicted a mid 11@125 over a year ago for a bone stock Z06. Judging from that pre-production run of 12.4@120, I may have been over optomistic.

We will not need to wait until next summer. There will be a Z06 vs. Ford GT comparison long before that and it will put any hopes of a GT500 vs. Z06 compaison to rest.

Does anyone doubt that the Z06 will out brake the Ford GT (C5 Z did!)?
Does anyone doubt that the GT will have a higher top speed than the Z06?
Does anyone doubt that laptimes will be very very close?
Does anyone doubt that 1/4 mile times will be very close?

What the Z lacks in power it makes up for in braking and weight. These two cars will be very very close in competition and of course we will have to wait for numbers until we can know for sure. The Z lapped Nurburgring in 7:42.9 but we cant compare that to the Ford GT because it didnt even run THE WORLDS ROADRACING BENCHMARK! I guess the best way to make sure you dont "tarnish" the GT40 heritage is not to run the car?!?

Once we see Z06 numbers and compare them to the Ford GT, or read a Ford GT vs. Z06 comparison, this GT500 talk will be laughable.

Geez, the unwillingness to comprehend is unbelievable.

READ ... VERY ... SLOWLY

There are already daily driver modded Cobras outrunning the most optomistic expectations for the new Z06.

The GT500 will give even greater gains per dollar mod than the old Cobra not to mention being significantly faster bone stock than the old car.

On the street and at the strip, stock Z06s will be Cobra food for a GT500 with pulley/tune/exhaust ~> about $1K in mods. I'm predicting high 10s

Here. If it'll make you chevy fanboys feel any better, a moderately modded GT500 will ALSO smoke a bone stock Ford GT supercar at the track.

As for your expected results in a GT/Z06 matchup, what's hilarious is that you think a car down by at least 100hp is going to come anywhere near the GT's acceleration times and trap speeds. I'm looking forward to a car rag matchup just to put an end to the ridiculous GT-Z06 comparison.

BigBlueCruiser

07-27-2005, 02:21 PM

Way to hyper exaggerate the price. Didn't know they were charging $20k for low compression forged pistons now. Its ok though, in case you didn't know, the new z06 is coming with the ls7 already installed, so the owners won't need to drop a shortblock in.

I am not trying to say the GT500 sucks, because it in no way does, but your ridiculous Ford rhetoric seems to know no bounds.

Go price a supercharged/built forged engine swap from Lingenfelter. You'll be lucky to get in and out for $20K. I'm sure no self respecting Z06 owner is going to do FI on the cheap.

There's forged pistons and then there's forged pistons. If a Z06 owner wants to believe he can just "strap" on a blower and just go... well more power to him. ;)

I don't think the Z06 sucks either. It's the best sports car for the money. The GT500 is the best muscle car for the money. Sometimes they'll cross paths.

Lemme put it this way. If I said my 1987 GN will rape the new Z06 at the track. Who wouldn't believe me? Everyone knows what a modded GN will do. They run 10s for under a few thousand in mods. Well it's simple. Ford built themselves a 2005 GN and it handles and does a lot of other crap a good performance car should do. Not Z06 good, but good enough.

RussStang

07-27-2005, 02:47 PM

Go price a supercharged/built forged engine swap from Lingenfelter. You'll be lucky to get in and out for $20K. I'm sure no self respecting Z06 owner is going to do FI on the cheap.

There's forged pistons and then there's forged pistons. If a Z06 owner wants to believe he can just "strap" on a blower and just go... well more power to him. ;)

I don't think the Z06 sucks either. It's the best sports car for the money. The GT500 is the best muscle car for the money. Sometimes they'll cross paths.

Lemme put it this way. If I said my 1987 GN will rape the new Z06 at the track. Who wouldn't believe me? Everyone knows what a modded GN will do. They run 10s for under a few thousand in mods. Well it's simple. Ford built themselves a 2005 GN and it handles and does a lot of other crap a good performance car should do. Not Z06 good, but good enough.

Ok, for once I actually think I agree with you.

Why would a z06 only need a forged engine swap from lingenfelter though? The only things in the engine that need to be changed out are the crappy cast pistons for lower compression forged ones, and maybe make a switch to inconel exhaust valves if so desired. I don't think the forged steel crank, or forged titanium connecting rods are gonna go any time soon. I know it can be a pain in the ass putting new pistons in an engine, especially when the said engine needs to come out of the car, but it isn't a $20k job by a long shot.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

07-27-2005, 04:42 PM

I like it, but the front grills REALLY reminds me of catfish mouth. I thought the '98-'02 Camaro's were bad, the Cobra is worse.

Gobble Gobble Gobble ....

Dan
I know a guy ( he's an older GM guy w/a 70 Chevelle), who got his wife a new Mustang during that time frame, and that was why he said he didn't get a Camaro! I tend to like All F-bodies not just certain gens. Oh...I like some more than others definately starting w/1st gens. And I actually liked the 98 redesign even though it had a catfish look, it had obvious 2nd gen RETRO( OH NO!) cues IMO, which I also think mercedes robbed on one of thier cars. I don't know which one, and could care less, only that I know I've seen them around! As for the Slowbra (just trying to get things back to normal, so when The American Badass returns the rivalry's still hot ;) ) it looks like an 05 mudstain ( couldn't help it, its a process :shrug: ) w/ stripes, they're like any other cars, when hooked up....CAN look pretty damn good! And it looks pretty damn good for a secretaries ( Shelby's words ;) ) car. Shelby did a damn good job on the old mudstain back then, we'll have to wait and see what the boys in blue can come up with on this next Cobra! I just can't figure out how its not out, and yet people have it pumped all the way up to 500 hp already? I can't help wondering if its gonna be like the next gen lightning that never happened?

IZ28

07-27-2005, 05:44 PM

I wanna see all these cars that are gonna out-perform the Z06 (in any or all categories) and how much money it will take. Even if you have a faster M*stang, you still have a M*stang and not a stock purpose built 505HP 427 C6.

Z28Wilson

07-27-2005, 05:48 PM

I wanna see all these car that are gonna out-perform the Z06 and how much money it will take.

Exactly!!! None of these cars are even out yet and we have talk of Benz's taking out Z06's for the same money or mildly massaged Cobras taking out Z06's for $20,000 less....I mean really, can't we wait until the vaporware solidifies? :rolleyes:

SCNGENNFTHGEN

07-27-2005, 07:49 PM

Exactly!!! None of these cars are even out yet and we have talk of Benz's taking out Z06's for the same money or mildly massaged Cobras taking out Z06's for $20,000 less....I mean really, can't we wait until the vaporware solidifies? :rolleyes:
IMHO, when ppl are fed a constant diet of :bs:, over time.... those ppl, become much more susceptible to being sold alot of...................... :bs: :eek: ;) :D

Morginie

07-27-2005, 08:02 PM

Who cares if a modded GT500 can take out a Z06 when you drop lots of mods into it.

A camaro can take out a GT500 with lots of mods also.

A mustang GT can take out a camaro with mods too.

Whats the big deal

The Z06 is something that the GT500 will never be.

So what if the GT500 can be as fast as the Z06 in the quarter mile after dropping $10, 000 worth of mods into it.

Take em both to a race track and watch the GT500 get wasted in the twisties, no matter how powerful it is.

These cars are in different classes.

Its pointless comparing them.

By the way,
who would cross shop a 4 seater mustang with a 2 seater corvette?
:rolleyes:

HAZ-Matt

07-27-2005, 10:56 PM

I think some people were making the point that the newer Cobras are capable in the turns as well.

But I'm in the "let's wait and see what happens" camp :)

ZZtop

07-27-2005, 11:21 PM

Yup. I myself predicted a mid 11@125 over a year ago for a bone stock Z06. Judging from that pre-production run of 12.4@120, I may have been over optomistic.

Keep the optimizim! No one knows what they were testing on those runs, etc. I have seen a Ford GT run 12.0 in Car and Driver, does that mean thats what they run? Heck NO! Conditions, driver, track prep, yada, yada...we all know the factors. The Z WILL be in the 11's. The GT IS in the 11's. While I NEVER said the Z will be faster than the GT, it will be close. Close enough that its better braking, near perfect weight distribution and lighter weight could make for a very interesting comparison. My predictions: GT takes 1/4 mile and top speed; Z06 takes braking, 0-100-0mph (C6 was close to this in a recent test), and track times could go either way. Depending on how much each respective car wins over the other in each category will determine the winner, well and throw in price maybe. It will be worth reading and regardless of the winner, will strike a cord with the Europeans!

Geez, the unwillingness to comprehend is unbelievable.

READ ... VERY ... SLOWLY

I'm comprehending, I'm with ya, dont worry.

There are already daily driver modded Cobras outrunning the most optomistic expectations for the new Z06.

The GT500 will give even greater gains per dollar mod than the old Cobra not to mention being significantly faster bone stock than the old car.

On the street and at the strip, stock Z06s will be Cobra food for a GT500 with pulley/tune/exhaust ~> about $1K in mods. I'm predicting high 10s

Agree for the most part, but I thought it was phrased in this thread that the Cobra's will be doing this on stock tires, which will be a difficult task.

Keep in mind that you are talking about a pretty serious pulley, not your standard slightly smaller pulley. If the Cobra runs low 12's then it will take some good boost to knock off over a second. Yes, the car will be completely streetable, and high 10's possible with tires.

I think it is hard to say that the new Cobra will be "significantly" faster than the old one. I say this because we all know the old Cobras were underated and closer to about 425hp. If the GT500 has 500hp and is accuratley rated, then it will be a 75hp improvment, BUT a 200lb weight addition. This would still net an improvement, but pehaps not "significant". Now with DR's, the solid axle provides more room for improvment.

I frequent SVTperformance and know about all there is to know about the GT500 as of now. The KEY will be if the car is underated like the 03-04' Cobras or accurately rated like the 05 Mustang GT. If the Cobra follows the new SAE horsepower certification then we will know for sure!

As for your expected results in a GT/Z06 matchup, what's hilarious is that you think a car down by at least 100hp is going to come anywhere near the GT's acceleration times and trap speeds. I'm looking forward to a car rag matchup just to put an end to the ridiculous GT-Z06 comparison.

Approximately 300lb weight advantage to the Z, plus some aero help, brings the 100hp difference down some. Now throw in gearing and it is possibly two cars with these differences could be close. Will it be true for the new Z and GT, I hope so, but I dont know. Remember that numerous rags have run the GT in the 11.5-11.8 range with trap speeds under 130mph. Can the mags get the Z there, I just dont know.....

Do you really think the comparison will be ridiculous? You have seen the Z's Nurburgring lap times. You know the C5 Z's stopping distances and even the performance of the C6. Perhaps you are confident that the GT will win, and I wouldn't bet against you, but it will not be ridiculous. It will be a worthy comparo, you wait and see.