'06 G6 Coupe = Stunning

At least to me. We got our first one (crimson GT) yesterday, and when I was pulling into work I stopped dead in the middle of the driveway, as its on display out front. I must have said "wow" like 5 times.

I said wow probably another 10 times when I went up to the showroom, grabbed the keys and opened it up. This car, I pray, is going to sell very well. To steal C&D's format:

Highs (compared to '05):
-Stunning roofline
-Beautiful chrome shift knob, stainless door sills, cloth on door panels (maybe these are on '06 GT 4 doors as well???)
-The windows do a BMW/MB-like thing where when you open the door the window drops a 1/4", then goes back up when you close the door for better sealing!!!
-Sporty feeling behind the wheel, accented by the higher cowl and narrower window openings.
-Lip on trunklid eliminates need for spoiler
-Gorgeous rear end (whether its a car or a woman, this is important :D)
-Tons of rear seat legroom

Lows:
-I'm 5 foot 6...my head brushes the headliner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-I can see why they did the 2+2 style based on this fact, but the lack of a middle seatbelt may bite Pontiac in the a**
-No rear seat armrest. WTF???

The Verdict:
-This car is gorgeous and SCREAMS "Pontiac" at the top of its lungs. Everything I was lukewarm about with the sedan is perfect with this car. What scares me is that Pontiac sacrificed possibly too much of the "2 door sedan-ness" of the Grand Am GT for a decidedly sexier but less user-friendly car. Personally, I think the trade off is worth it. However, it could limit appeal to many...the shape will hopefully make up for that though!!!

In summary, I can completely see myself in this car, more so than the GP GXP I was planning on buying. That car I loved for the drive and the features. This car I love even more because it has the look, its cheaper, and in GTP form I get a manual tranny :D The GP I like the size of more, but the shape oif this car more than makes up for it. I'm not saying I'm buying one, but I'm sure as hell reconsidering selling my GP.

Just glad I waited!!!!

Also, just wanted to mention that they've lowered the price significantly from initial estimates. A baseline GTP is only $24,610 and includes Monsoon, XM, power seat, digital climate control, 18s and Stabili-Trak. For $1,000 (after option package discount) you get polished wheels, a moonroof and a 6 disc. $1,265 gets you heated leather with a leather wheel, shift knob and steering wheel radio controls. $150 more gets you the 3 season performance tires.

So for $27,075 you get a 6 speed GTP with everything offered except On-Star and side/head curtain airbags (add $700 for either one if you really want). IMO, that's a decent price for a fully loaded 240hp sports coupe. You get more than say a Mitsubishi Eclipse for less money...a win win to me.

The interior looks nice, but I haven't warmed up to the exterior yet. The proportions seem off to me, with the wheelbase too long for the car. Bigger is not always better. If the rear wheels were forward about six inches I think it would be a better balanced design. And like many recent GM cars the headlights look like they're placed too high on the body.

It seems the G6 is making a turn around. I recently received a publication from Pontiac that stated that the current projected sales at the end of 2005 the G6 will be in the top 10 selling models in the US. Also from Feb thru Apr the G6 posted 3 straight record sales months.
G6 is outselling the Ford Five Hundred, which was launched at about the same time. The G6 is also outselling Toyota's Scion brand combined.

Our local all in one GM dealer that also sells Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep recently removed all new Pontiacs from the lot. I don't know whats going on but they only have a few used Pontiacs now. They've always been a p*** poor Chevy lot when it comes to cars, for instance they have yet to get any Cobalt SSs in, they just have one or two coupes and 4 or 5 sedans. They always have plenty of trucks though.
If I want to see a G6 coupe I guess I have to drive to the next Pontiac dealer.

I really like the G6. I have the opportunity to get a G6 or a GP GT for a company vehicle in the next month (replacing my Venture - I'm going to miss this).

Based on looks and fit/finish of the Interior I would choose the G6, but I chose the Grand Prix because it's bigger and I have to carry alot of equipment in the sales world I am in... But the Grand Prix isn't the worst in the world either...

It'll be alot more fun then the Van, but lacks the convenience and utility of the Van, oh well - I must be getting old, LOL.

Also, just wanted to mention that they've lowered the price significantly from initial estimates. A baseline GTP is only $24,610 so about the same price as the 300 hp, RWD, don't hit your head on the headliner, has backseat armrests mustang. :D

-I'm 5 foot 6...my head brushes the headliner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unless you've got a very impressive perm, the G6 coupe has a very serious lack of headroom. If this is the case, GM has eliminated the Pontiac G6 coupe as choice for the vast majority of men, as well as a very substantial minority of women.

I can only hope that the Solstice/Sky is sized for 6 foot+ drivers.

Unless you've got a very impressive perm, the G6 coupe has a very serious lack of headroom. If this is the case, GM has eliminated the Pontiac G6 coupe as choice for the vast majority of men, as well as a very substantial minority of women.

I can only hope that the Solstice/Sky is sized for 6 foot+ drivers.
It is with the top off I suppose. :)

Unless you've got a very impressive perm, the G6 coupe has a very serious lack of headroom. If this is the case, GM has eliminated the Pontiac G6 coupe as choice for the vast majority of men, as well as a very substantial minority of women.

I can only hope that the Solstice/Sky is sized for 6 foot+ drivers.

My bad...I meant the rear seat headroom. Actually, my dad is 5 foot 11, just sat in it, and had plenty of room up front. Out back? I didn't even ask him to try it :D

so about the same price as the 300 hp, RWD, don't hit your head on the headliner, has backseat armrests mustang. :D
You beat me to that point. :)

I'd still take the G6 over the Mustang, especially a GTP with a 6 speed. I still hate that Mustang dashboard, and the G6 looks way sleeker. Plus, with this being a daily driver the FWD is better for snow, although I know you'd beg to differ :)

By the way, I meant center armrest in the back...there are side armrests. So yeah...the front is great in the inside...the back is a little confining, but there is a ton of leg room...WAY more than a new Mustang. And I'm sure there's not much headroom in the back of a Mustang, either ;)

Sorry for the confusion in my first post!

My bad...I meant the rear seat headroom. Actually, my dad is 5 foot 11, just sat in it, and had plenty of room up front. Out back? I didn't even ask him to try it :D
Yea, I don't think Grand Prixs do too well in that regard either. I've sat in the back of one and was about an inch from hitting my head. I'm 5.10 btw. Better, but still not great. Course, if I'm the driver, I could really care less what people in the back say. ;)

And that's why I say for the tradeoff of fast roofline versus rear seat headroom, Pontiac made the right choice with this car!! This car just looks right...

hey jason do the coupes get a different dash than the sedans?

so about the same price as the 300 hp, RWD, don't hit your head on the headliner, has backseat armrests mustang. :D

Yes, but this is still a phenomenally better looking car.

Yes, but this is still a phenomenally better looking car.
if you like solaras sure. :D
http://www.toyota.com/camrysolara/index.html

I still like the g6 exterior and hate the interior Given the choice at that price, I am all over the mustang. Its insane to even price the g6 within $3000 of the mustang. To 95% of the public the Mustang is going to look better, perform better and its an image car.

I think it looks alot like a 350z from behind.

I think it looks alot like a 350z from behind.

I agree. The roofline also seems to mimic the Z. There aren't many sedans I find more attractive than their coupe versions, but with the G6, that's actually the case. :blah:

Man...tough room :D

Anyway, yes the dash is the same as in the coupe...it actually looks better in the coupe, with the faster A pillars and such. To each their own I guess...should've known on a Camaro site, the retro-brick RWD V8 Mustang would be preferred :)

I know which one I'd spend my $$ on though...G6 looks forward, while Mustang takes that step back that makes me want to hurl. Sure, Mustang is an image car...but that doesn't mean everyone likes the image :D

Jason, I saw black G6 GTP coupe last night at a Pontiac dealer in Louisville. It looks very nice, I am not a fan of the sedan styling but the coupe is very sleek looking and I love the rear. I couldn't get to close because they had it on a turn table thing that was rotating. The window sticker was on the front windshield but I couldn't get close enough to see any of the options or price. I'd love to drive one and check out the performance of this coupe.

Man...tough room :D

Anyway, yes the dash is the same as in the coupe...it actually looks better in the coupe, with the faster A pillars and such. To each their own I guess...should've known on a Camaro site, the retro-brick RWD V8 Mustang would be preferred :)

I know which one I'd spend my $$ on though...G6 looks forward, while Mustang takes that step back that makes me want to hurl. Sure, Mustang is an image car...but that doesn't mean everyone likes the image :D
The G6 looks forward?

**scratches head**
Could have sworn I remember seeing cars like that in the late 90s.
Ford retro-60s.
Pontiac retro-90s!
:)

But I got to sit in a G6 yesterday and it was a nice car. Wouldn't plop down 25k on the coupe over a Mustang though. Kind of don't see the point.
Slower,FWD...and blends in with every other car on the road. **shrugs** Somebody has got to buy them I suppose.

The G6 looks forward?

**scratches head**
Could have sworn I remember seeing cars like that in the late 90s.
Ford retro-60s.
Pontiac retro-90s!
:)

But I got to sit in a G6 yesterday and it was a nice car. Wouldn't plop down 25k on the coupe over a Mustang though. Kind of don't see the point.
Slower,FWD...and blends in with every other car on the road. **shrugs** Somebody has got to buy them I suppose.
I don't know where much of a comparison of Mustang comes in but in any case, both are V6 for that price, both are nice cars but I would think the G6 would be better than the plastic Mustang. I wouldn't know though as I haven't gotten the chance to sit in them yet.

To each their own I guess...should've known on a Camaro site, the retro-brick RWD V8 Mustang would be preferred :)



hehe...shocking right? I agree with you 100%, and I know which one would get my money as well. I personally think the new Mustang is hideous, and I will never consider the current design as a candidate to the empty spot in my garage. Popularity only adds to my decision not to purchase one...

The surprising thing is that the most direct competitor to the G6 coupe will probably be the Mustang, not the Solara or the Accord coupe. Remember, the second choice of most Mustang buyers used to be Grand Ams, not Camaros. I can certainly see those wooed by the V6 Mustang cross-shopping the GT G6. Will Mustang GT buyers cross shop a GTP? Not nearly as often, but I bet it will happen a little bit, especially here in the Northeast. Muscle cars are definitely used primarily as 3 season cars around here. Its amazing how around April 1, all of a sudden you see F bodies and Mustangs coming out of the woodwork :D

Either way, I can't wait to drive the next one we have coming in...a GTP 6 speed.

The surprising thing is that the most direct competitor to the G6 coupe will probably be the Mustang, not the Solara or the Accord coupe. Remember, the second choice of most Mustang buyers used to be Grand Ams, not Camaros. I can certainly see those wooed by the V6 Mustang cross-shopping the GT G6. Will Mustang GT buyers cross shop a GTP? Not nearly as often, but I bet it will happen a little bit, especially here in the Northeast. Muscle cars are definitely used primarily as 3 season cars around here. Its amazing how around April 1, all of a sudden you see F bodies and Mustangs coming out of the woodwork :D

Either way, I can't wait to drive the next one we have coming in...a GTP 6 speed.


I think that is a strech.....

Reason the GA was crossshopped with the Mustang is because it looked so agressive. It looked much faster than it was. The GA's ground effects and cladding and agressive styling are not present in the G6 coupe...which seems like a car a 40 year old female real estate agent woud drive.

I really wish Pontiac would have done the G6 right and gave it AWD, 300HP and agressive styling..

I think that is a strech.....

Reason the GA was crossshopped with the Mustang is because it looked so agressive. It looked much faster than it was. The GA's ground effects and cladding and agressive styling are not present in the G6 coupe...which seems like a car a 40 year old female real estate agent woud drive.

I really wish Pontiac would have done the G6 right and gave it AWD, 300HP and agressive styling..



uhm.......not so fast........

The Grand Am and Z24 were cross-shopped with the Mustang for many reasons......true that styling was one consideration......but the two main reasons in 'rejector studies' from 1998 thru 2001 were:

>FWD confidence in bad weather
>Camaro/Firebird has more power than I need (I'm not kidding......that was the second reason!) Keep in mind that the demographics of the Mustang were different from the Camaro/Firebird.......Mustang had a slightly younger buyer, more female buyers......lower HH income. (don't have the figures in front of me.....)

>Camaro/Firebird has more power than I need (I'm not kidding......that was the second reason!)

I never understood this logic either, but I have heard of it. Seems to me this makes a huge case for that "true" base V8 car we throw around.....:think:

I never understood this logic either, but I have heard of it. Seems to me this makes a huge case for that "true" base V8 car we throw around.....:think:
I understood it just fine. My dad even said that when he was test driving Z28s. "Yea, if you just lay into too much slightly, you're gonna wrap it around a tree."
It certainly makes a business case for base v8s. I'm sure that 300hp is somewhat testing people's limits.

The guy my father-in-law restores Corvettes with is also the body shop manager of the Chevy/Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Cadillac dealership we shop at...

They just got a G6 GTP in... he said it looks awesome...

Now, that might not sound like much, but he and my father-in-law are both "old school" guys, and don't think a whole lot of today's cars stand out when compared to cars of the past... so the G6 GTP getting a comment like that from him is something quite significant, IMO...

To top it off, he brought it up all by himself while we were talking at my brother-in-law's wedding... I didn't even prompt the response. ;)

I don't know where much of a comparison of Mustang comes in but in any case, both are V6 for that price, both are nice cars but I would think the G6 would be better than the plastic Mustang. I wouldn't know though as I haven't gotten the chance to sit in them yet.

For that price, the mustang is v8, not v6. The other main point wouldbe that they are both coupes for the same amount of money.

I bought a G6 and love it. Especially the interior. Besides I want a car that blends in as DD. Less chance the cops will notice me. I considered the Mustang but they suck to drive in the winter, I think they are ugly, and there are no GT's for sale anywhere near here.

Well there's Comparison Shopper #1 :D

Branden,
I will never, ever understand your attraction to the styling of the old Grand Am, but to each his own :D Anyway, to say the G6 coupe looks like a 40 year old female car is a complete exaggeration IMO. That car looks hot. Period. Glad Darth is backing me up here. The coupe is WAY more attractive than the Grand Am ever thought of being!!!!! Just because it lacks the GA's hideous body cladding does not mean the overall shape of the G6 isn't racier and more attractive.

To each their own, but the G6 coupe is a way better looking/sportier looking car than a "2 door sedan" Grand Am coupe ever thought of being.

Ahh man...I have yet to see one on lots. I saw one at the GM Autoshow In Motion, but I cant wait to see them on the streets!!! I cant wait to drive one, hopefully soon.

Well there's Comparison Shopper #1 :D

Branden,
I will never, ever understand your attraction to the styling of the old Grand Am, but to each his own :D Anyway, to say the G6 coupe looks like a 40 year old female car is a complete exaggeration IMO. That car looks hot. Period. Glad Darth is backing me up here. The coupe is WAY more attractive than the Grand Am ever thought of being!!!!! Just because it lacks the GA's hideous body cladding does not mean the overall shape of the G6 isn't racier and more attractive.

To each their own, but the G6 coupe is a way better looking/sportier looking car than a "2 door sedan" Grand Am coupe ever thought of being.

FWIW... I always thought that Grand Am GT's were nice looking, cladding and all... :D

The base model, however, didn't do it for me, because the thin cladding was terrible, and then when they took it off, it looked bad still, IMO (Alero doors on a Grand Am...)

Behind the wheel, it feels significantly more aggressive than the sedan... I like that :D I liken it to the current Stratus and Sebring coupes, in that the beltline feels high and the windows are lower. I loved the sporty feeling an '03 Sebring coupe gave me when I tested it a few years ago...I really wanted to trade my old Grand Am in on it (ended up buying the GP instead a month later!). I can't wait to get in the 6 speed GTP.

On a side note, a good friend of mine here at the bank is a die-hard import lover who currently owns an '04 Mazda 6i. He came buy to look at the coupe on Saturday, and his exact words were "now THAT is an American car I'd buy in a heartbeat. It looks kinda like a G35 coupe with a Pontiac nose."

I wouldn't call that faint praise, and I agree with him entirely.

FWIW... I always thought that Grand Am GT's were nice looking, cladding and all... :D

The base model, however, didn't do it for me, because the thin cladding was terrible, and then when they took it off, it looked bad still, IMO (Alero doors on a Grand Am...)

I always said a Grand Am was nothing more than the Alero + Extra Goop :D You're right...in '03 our Grand Ams literally looked like our Aleros with Pontiac wheels from the side...

The GTs look ok in dark colors...mine was black and was ok. Dark green looked good too. Silver and white just accentuate the goop!

I understood it just fine. My dad even said that when he was test driving Z28s. "Yea, if you just lay into too much slightly, you're gonna wrap it around a tree."
It certainly makes a business case for base v8s. I'm sure that 300hp is somewhat testing people's limits.

Also makes a case traction control to be standard equipment.

Also makes a case traction control to be standard equipment.

Fully defeatable traction control, thank you. Even if you have to do it by some 'enthusiast's trick'..... :)

>FWD confidence in bad weather


Bingo. No matter how good traction control gets, you'll never be able to talk a lot of people into a rwd car who live in snow states.

I need to see some pics of this car by the way people are talking here!

I need to see some pics of this car by the way people are talking here!

http://www.pontiac.com/g6coupe/gallery.jsp

G6+LS2+rwd=something to go into debt for. :cool:

Think about that one, GM.

G6+LS2+rwd=something to go into debt for. :cool:

Think about that one, GM.


They already have that area covered.... (http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp?brand=home)

if you like solaras sure. :D
http://www.toyota.com/camrysolara/index.html

I like it better than the Solaras, but the Solaras came to mind immediately when I just saw the picture of the G6 coupe. I was going to say the same thing, but then saw your post.

I'm not a huge fan of the Solaras, but the G6 looks much better. I'm still not totally sold on it though. I need to see one in person.

Dan

I need to see some pics of this car by the way people are talking here!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-Pontiac-G-6-GTP-COUPE-FREE-SHIPPING-AVAILABLE_W0QQitemZ4562359797QQcategoryZ6386QQssPa geNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think a G6 GTP Coupe sounds good on paper and would be a nice alternative for someone shopping a V6 Mustang or Eclipse. I just hope it drives well and isn't compromised. A soft suspension, sloppy shifter, and overbearing torque steer would zap all of the fun out of it. Unfortunately, that's what I'm anticipating happening, so I haven't given the car a lot of thought. Stylistically, it could use some individuality. The front treatment on Pontiacs is growing very stale and uninspiring. The convertible could stand some testosterone, too.

They already have that area covered.... (http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp?brand=home)

Apples vs. oranges. That's why I posted what I did. ;) I'm not interested in an overweight GTO/Holden, I would be interested in something a little lighter on it's feet with better styling.

We are supposed to get our first G6 coupe in fairly soon. Ours will be a G6 GTP 6 speed. Looking forward to driving this one with the stick. 3.9 V6 240hp with VVT, nice combo that should be torquey.

Apples vs. oranges. That's why I posted what I did. ;) I'm not interested in an overweight GTO/Holden, I would be interested in something a little lighter on it's feet with better styling.

LS2, M6, RWD, coupe... sounded like it had all the bases covered. :shrug:

LS2, M6, RWD, coupe... sounded like it had all the bases covered. :shrug:

Perhaps in your view it is. In mine, it is not. There are many enthusiasts out there who would prefer something lighter and with better styling. Imagine how well the product would be received if an LS2, rear drive variant that was a minimum of 400-500 lbs lighter than the Holden, had better styling and could also be had with lessor performance options as well were in place. Do you remember the older days? Perhaps not. There was a time that the run of the mill transportation versions fueled brand loyalty due to larger volumes, then the performance variant generated the excitement for the enthusiasts. Those performance versions upped the dealer's profit margin as well as fueling the overall strenght of the platform to enthusiasts. As it sits, you have a choice...... a GTO or a GTO of a different color. :confused: There is no other option for the line, GM is building them in limited quantities to squeeze as much profit out of the vehicle as possible, there is little brand loyalty generated. This gives the dealers even a bigger gun to shoot themselves in the foot. If you don't like the package as it sits, all that is left is to buy an entirely different car. Well, I take that back..... you could always add a ground effect package. :rolleyes:

This is exactly why the Mustang is generating so many sales. The average Joe or Suzie can buy a basic sporty package with a V6 without breaking the bank. The knuckle scraping gearheads can opt for a performance version (GT) for more dough. The true gasoline in the veins motorheads can opt for the maximum performance version (Cobra or GT-500) at an even higher price point. When GM had this formula, sales were up. Now that they seem to have forgotten this, sales are trailing. It's not rocket science, it's economics 101.

Perhaps in your view it is. In mine, it is not. There are many enthusiasts out there who would prefer something lighter and with better styling. Imagine how well the product would be received if an LS2, rear drive variant that was a minimum of 400-500 lbs lighter than the Holden, had better styling and could also be had with lessor performance options as well were in place. Do you remember the older days? Perhaps not. There was a time that the run of the mill transportation versions fueled brand loyalty due to larger volumes, then the performance variant generated the excitement for the enthusiasts. Those performance versions upped the dealer's profit margin as well as fueling the overall strenght of the platform to enthusiasts. As it sits, you have a choice...... a GTO or a GTO of a different color. :confused: There is no other option for the line, GM is building them in limited quantities to squeeze as much profit out of the vehicle as possible, there is little brand loyalty generated. This gives the dealers even a bigger gun to shoot themselves in the foot. If you don't like the package as it sits, all that is left is to buy an entirely different car. Well, I take that back..... you could always add a ground effect package. :rolleyes:

This is exactly why the Mustang is generating so many sales. The average Joe or Suzie can buy a basic sporty package with a V6 without breaking the bank. The knuckle scraping gearheads can opt for a performance version (GT) for more dough. The true gasoline in the veins motorheads can opt for the maximum performance version (Cobra or GT-500) at an even higher price point. When GM had this formula, sales were up. Now that they seem to have forgotten this, sales are trailing. It's not rocket science, it's economics 101.


Um.... G6 isn't a RWD car.

GTO is. And it has everything you mentioned in your first post. LS2, M6, RWD, and coupe. That's why I pointed it out... didn't mean to have you go off on an anti-GTO rampage...

As for the G6, it ***HAS*** all the varients you are talking about and more! Coupe, sedan, and convertible. Base, GT, and GTP.

Not every single car line is going to be RWD and V8 powered.

When Camaro comes back, it'll have a base model, and a V8 model, and probably a super V8 model... just like Mustang.

Not every single car model has to follow the same formula.

Also of note... GTO weighs 300 lbs more than a G6 GT sedan (only G6 varient I could find a curb weight on) [3725 for GTO vs 3425 for G6 GT)

G6 (http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/pontiac/g6/100533506/specs.html)

GTO (http://www.pontiac.com/specs/specs_content_files/specs_viewall.jsp?brand=gto)

Granted, that is a decent amount more weight... but after you add the weight for a V8 vs a V6, a driveshaft, actual rear axles, etc.... I have a feeling that G6 would raise significantly in weight... might not surpase GTO, but it would probably get relatively close.

aaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

What ****ing maniac was allowed to put temperature and fuel guages that rotate backwards. That is beyond retarded.

maybe that's old news to some, but i never saw that until now. Otherwise a nice car.

Bingo. No matter how good traction control gets, you'll never be able to talk a lot of people into a rwd car who live in snow states.

I have news for you...there's a reason for that!!!!!!!! Count me in this group...my first 2 cars were RWD. Count my father in this group as well...who owned RWD cars until 1985, and will never drive a RWD car over the winter again. Count my grandfather in this group as well, who is 77 years old and has driven and owned more cars than anyone here, likely. His first car was a '32 Model A...his latest cars are a '95 LeSabre and my dad's old 4x4 '02 TrailBlazer. He never owned FWD before the LeSabre, and he'll never go back to RWD for the winter either.

As much as some people on here love to argue with the fact, the simple physics of FWD dictate it will work better in the snow. TC is an electronic band aid for RWD in snow. Put the same tires and same TC systems on a FWD and a RWD car making the same HP, and let them loose in the snow...then come back and tell me which is better :)

Unfortunately, where I live we get snow A LOT. I won't even consider a Mustang GT for a driver based on this fact alone.

I have news for you...there's a reason for that!!!!!!!! Count me in this group...my first 2 cars were RWD. Count my father in this group as well...who owned RWD cars until 1985, and will never drive a RWD car over the winter again. Count my grandfather in this group as well, who is 77 years old and has driven and owned more cars than anyone here, likely. His first car was a '32 Model A...his latest cars are a '95 LeSabre and my dad's old 4x4 '02 TrailBlazer. He never owned FWD before the LeSabre, and he'll never go back to RWD for the winter either.

As much as some people on here love to argue with the fact, the simple physics of FWD dictate it will work better in the snow. TC is an electronic band aid for RWD in snow. Put the same tires and same TC systems on a FWD and a RWD car making the same HP, and let them loose in the snow...then come back and tell me which is better :)

Unfortunately, where I live we get snow A LOT. I won't even consider a Mustang GT for a driver based on this fact alone.



You might just incite an arguement with this statement.

Put me in the rear wheel drive will do fine with good tires on it group.

I have news for you...there's a reason for that!!!!!!!! Count me in this group...my first 2 cars were RWD. Count my father in this group as well...who owned RWD cars until 1985, and will never drive a RWD car over the winter again. Count my grandfather in this group as well, who is 77 years old and has driven and owned more cars than anyone here, likely. His first car was a '32 Model A...his latest cars are a '95 LeSabre and my dad's old 4x4 '02 TrailBlazer. He never owned FWD before the LeSabre, and he'll never go back to RWD for the winter either.

As much as some people on here love to argue with the fact, the simple physics of FWD dictate it will work better in the snow. TC is an electronic band aid for RWD in snow. Put the same tires and same TC systems on a FWD and a RWD car making the same HP, and let them loose in the snow...then come back and tell me which is better :)

Unfortunately, where I live we get snow A LOT. I won't even consider a Mustang GT for a driver based on this fact alone.

Check the weight bias on your grand daddy's Model A. Now imaging a RWD car with close to 50/50 weight bias and traction control. Not so much trouble in the winter anymore. Chrysler brought a bunch of journalists up to Michigan before the release of the magnum and the 300. They were put on a snowy track and let go. They had trouble beaking the rearend loose with traction control.

Check the weight bias on your grand daddy's Model A. Now imaging a RWD car with close to 50/50 weight bias and traction control. Not so much trouble in the winter anymore. Chrysler brought a bunch of journalists up to Michigan before the release of the magnum and the 300. They were put on a snowy track and let go. They had trouble beaking the rearend loose with traction control.
I'm with Jason on this one.

Up here in Yooperland and Northern Wisconsin, you don't dare have a RWD or 4x2 pickup. If nothing else, for resale value alone. That should tell you something right there. Now, I won't say that a person couldn't get around with just a 4x2 or RWD (of course you can), but for 70%+ of the population, FWD gives the traction that most people expect for a real winter. And a FWD car with traction control gives 90% of the benefit of AWD (according to a GM guide). For here in my neck of the woods, it's not so much a matter of traction when you are rolling as it is to get moving (deep snow), and this is where FWD/4x4/AWD is king in terms of real world useage in winter.

I'm with Jason on this one.

Up here in Yooperland and Northern Wisconsin, you don't dare have a RWD or 4x2 pickup. If nothing else, for resale value alone. That should tell you something right there. Now, I won't say that a person couldn't get around with just a 4x2 or RWD (of course you can), but for 70%+ of the population, FWD gives the traction that most people expect for a real winter. And a FWD car with traction control gives 90% of the benefit of AWD (according to a GM guide). For here in my neck of the woods, it's not so much a matter of traction when you are rolling as it is to get moving (deep snow), and this is where FWD/4x4/AWD is king in terms of real world useage in winter.

FWD has had 2 main advantages that make it better to get going. Weight over the drive tires and realitively low horsepower with gearing that was not too tall. By fixing the weight bias you fix the weight problem. The traction control fixes the wheel spining caused by higher horsepower and gearing. With technology all things are possible.

Having driven both FWD and RWD in the snow... I basically summarize it liek this:

FWD is great to help you get going....

Once you are going, there's not a lot of difference.

RWD, however, is more "correctable/predictible" in a panic situation at speed than FWD.

Up here in Yooperland and Northern Wisconsin, you don't dare have a RWD or 4x2 pickup.

My father-in-law has lived in the UP all his life, and currently uses a '99 C1500 as his daily-driver. So much for that. And when I lived in the UP for five years, I drove either a 4x2 Isuzu pickup truck or a Chevy G20 van.

I refuse to drink from the "RWD Is Death!" Kool-Aid.

Yes, but the Majority of Public perception is EXACTLY that - and that is who's buying the majority of cars, NOT the RWD enthusiasts.

FWD replaced RWD for valid /reasons/. Some of those reasons being better in *wintery* conditions. They also HAD to be pretty valid reasons when you look at the packaging problems involved with FWD vehicles.

So it's not really koolaid - except in your own mind. ;)

Although, I do agree it's not as bad as people make it out to be and definitely is my preference. (Just not my wifes, LOL)

This post hit the nail directly on the head...

Yes, but the Majority of Public perception is EXACTLY that - and that is who's buying the majority of cars, NOT the RWD enthusiasts.

FWD replaced RWD for valid /reasons/. Some of those reasons being better in *wintery* conditions. They also HAD to be pretty valid reasons when you look at the packaging problems involved with FWD vehicles.

So it's not really koolaid - except in your own mind. ;)

Although, I do agree it's not as bad as people make it out to be and definitely is my preference. (Just not my wifes, LOL)

My father-in-law has lived in the UP all his life, and currently uses a '99 C1500 as his daily-driver. So much for that. And when I lived in the UP for five years, I drove either a 4x2 Isuzu pickup truck or a Chevy G20 van.

I refuse to drink from the "RWD Is Death!" Kool-Aid.
Again, a person absolutely can do without FWD/4x4, even up here. I'm not arguing that (you would know that if you read my entire post). But see what that truck is worth up here when you go to sell it. Better yet, find someone who actually wants it. Good luck!

Unless you have a farmer looking for a summer work truck or a kid who doesn't know any better, you will be very aquainted with that 4x2 truck.

It's not a matter of getting by in the winter, it's a matter of common long range business sense.

So much for that, Eric.

Russ,
I knew I'd start a battle, and I'm a-ok with that :) Just don't want to derail my own thread!!!

Eric,
I never said you CAN'T drive RWD. What I said was I (and many others) don't WANT TO. I drove my 135hp 2.8 Camaro with studded snows for 4 winters...it was fine, and I never got stuck. But my 200hp GP with normal snows is FAR BETTER. Case closed. Darth is right...once you are going, its fine. Try getting an F body to do a 90 degree right on an icy hill from a dead stop. This is the kind of thing I encounter quite often for a full 1/3 of the year! The Camaro with studs skiddered and screamed at 4k...the GP just goes up. Period.

falchulk,
Give me a break. Like I said, take the same TC system and the same tired and the same HP and throw them on a FWD and a RWD car and tell me which is better. BTW, high-powered FWD cars do great in snow as well...ask my best friend with his 295hp Eldorado Touring Coupe. He also owns an '00 Trans Am. He knows which car goes in snow, and which one we have to push back into his garage when there's anything over 3" on the ground.

I've driven RWD in snow for the first 4 years I had my license. I can do it, and studded snows were a phenomenal help. However, every winter at least once there's a road near my parents house. I'd start at the base of the hill at 30 MPH (going 30), pointing straight. By the top of the hill, the speedo said 45-50 while the car barely moved, and the car was now pointing 90 degrees to the right. The GP goes up the hill. No problem.

Sure, Stabili-Trak could help solve that problem. But you know what? It can only do so much before it will literally stall the car. Take your car with traction control, get it stuck in a snow bank, and floor it. If all the car will do is spin, the computer fights back so hard the engine dies. Where will your Stabili-Trak be then. Extreme case? Sure...but a lot of the rust belt encounters things like this. Band Aids are just that...band aids.

Sure, I can drive RWD in winter and not die a fiery death...I just don't want to anymore!!!!

I've driven RWD in snow for the first 4 years I had my license. I can do it, and studded snows were a phenomenal help. However, every winter at least once there's a road near my parents house. I'd start at the base of the hill at 30 MPH (going 30), pointing straight. By the top of the hill, the speedo said 45-50 while the car barely moved, and the car was now pointing 90 degrees to the right. The GP goes up the hill. No problem.Every year, at least once, there is a road by their house? You're shi**ing me!

:p

:D

Um.... G6 isn't a RWD car.

.

Duh!

I get the feeling that no matter what, you are going to nix the idea....... so be it. :rolleyes:

Duh!

I get the feeling that no matter what, you are going to nix the idea....... so be it. :rolleyes:


No... I'm really just wondering how specific you have to get before you'd be pleased.

You want Pontiac to have a RWD, LS2, M6 coupe.... but it has to be a G6 instead of a GTO?!

If the GTO has been blasted for anything, it's been that it looks too much like other Pontiacs. :shrug:

How many RWD, LS2, M6 coupes should Pontiac have? Especially if weight is your main concern? Put comparable hardware on the G6 (if even possible) and it's probably gonna be darn close in weight to what the GTO is now.

I just don't understand your slam on Pontiac... they have a car that covers the EXACT area you are talking about, but you bash them for not having it. :confused:

Every year, at least once, there is a road by their house? You're shi**ing me!

:p

:D

Alright, smart a** :D :D Yeah, I read that after and was too lazy to fix it. I try to adhere to the grammar standards my high school and college professors supplied me with...sometimes I fail miserably. Ask me if I'm concerned :)

Having to drive in snow and ice all the time has to suck.

A general question: How much less will the coupe weigh than the sedan? I'm thinking how much of a performance difference there will be.

A general question: How much less will the coupe weigh than the sedan? I'm thinking how much of a performance difference there will be.


I would imagine a coupe vs sedan weight difference of somewhere between 40-100 lbs depending on the model... (assuming you mean coupe vs sedan of the same model (like G6 sedan vs G6 coupe with the same powertrain and equipment))

I'd start at the base of the hill at 30 MPH (going 30), pointing straight. By the top of the hill, the speedo said 45-50 while the car barely moved, and the car was now pointing 90 degrees to the right. The GP goes up the hill. No problem.




Heh, been there done that :)



Uh, back on topic, I was looking at the G6 coupe again today, and it does really look alot like a 350z from behind. It is not a very masculine looking car from the front either. I have had plenty of seat time in my friend's mom's G6 GT sedan, so I know what to expect from the inside already, and the coupe looks pretty much the same. Not a bad car I guess, I just wish there was a new rwd Grand Prix coming out, because they got so close to the right formula.

Would I ever buy a G6 GTP over a new Mustang GT. No......and this is coming from someone who hates the new Mustang. If only Pontiac could bring out a AWD G6 GXP 6 speed to bring alittle more excitement to that lineup, and give it a more masculine look (I know thats not gonna happen.)

Heh, been there done that :)



Uh, back on topic, I was looking at the G6 coupe again today, and it does really look alot like a 350z from behind. It is not a very masculine looking car from the front either. I have had plenty of seat time in my friend's mom's G6 GT sedan, so I know what to expect from the inside already, and the coupe looks pretty much the same. Not a bad car I guess, I just wish there was a new rwd Grand Prix coming out, because they got so close to the right formula.

Would I ever buy a G6 GTP over a new Mustang GT. No......and this is coming from someone who hates the new Mustang. If only Pontiac could bring out a AWD G6 GXP 6 speed to bring alittle more excitement to that lineup, and give it a more masculine look (I know thats not gonna happen.)

I wasn't aware the 350Z had a feminine look to it? :confused:

I wasn't aware the 350Z had a feminine look to it? :confused:

Not from the rear it doesn't, and I didn't say the G6 looked girly from behind either. Its the front of the G6 that could use some machoing up.

No... I'm really just wondering how specific you have to get before you'd be pleased.

You want Pontiac to have a RWD, LS2, M6 coupe.... but it has to be a G6 instead of a GTO?!

If the GTO has been blasted for anything, it's been that it looks too much like other Pontiacs. :shrug:

How many RWD, LS2, M6 coupes should Pontiac have? Especially if weight is your main concern? Put comparable hardware on the G6 (if even possible) and it's probably gonna be darn close in weight to what the GTO is now.

I just don't understand your slam on Pontiac... they have a car that covers the EXACT area you are talking about, but you bash them for not having it. :confused:

Take it easy keyboard warrior. :rolleyes: You're the one who didn't like what I posted. Not once did I bash Pontiac, those are your words and not mine. I simply stated something which you obviously didn't like. :cry: To put a fine point on it, the main reason I didn't buy the GTO was that the rear seat acessability is a joke. My son can climb in and out of the back seat in my f-body far easier than the GTO. Granted once you are in there the GTO has more room, but that power seat gizmo just to get in and out is a pain in the differential.

You have a GTO and are evidently very proud of it. It also seems that my opinion is not welcome by you so let's just simply agree that we disagree and move on.


Did I mention that the G6 coupe looks great? :D

Joe--

I think what he was getting at was that you asked for a "Pontiac to have a RWD, LS2, M6 coupe." There is such a thing--the GTO.

Take it easy keyboard warrior. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: OK..... Megabyte Ninja?? :think:

You're the one who didn't like what I posted. Not once did I bash Pontiac, those are your words and not mine. I simply stated something which you obviously didn't like. :cry:

Perhaps "bash" is the wrong word... maybe "complain/whine/bitch" that they are not covering a market that they ARE actually covering?!

This was your original post:

"G6+LS2+rwd=something to go into debt for.

Think about that one, GM."


To put a fine point on it, the main reason I didn't buy the GTO was that the rear seat acessability is a joke. My son can climb in and out of the back seat in my f-body far easier than the GTO. Granted once you are in there the GTO has more room, but that power seat gizmo just to get in and out is a pain in the differential.

I agree about the power seat gizmo... it's too slow. I have actually complained about it. FWIW, the 2006 GTO has a faster motor for the seat, because several people have complained about this issue.


You have a GTO and are evidently very proud of it. It also seems that my opinion is not welcome by you so let's just simply agree that we disagree and move on.

Not so.... I just don't understand how you can complain that Pontiac isn't offering a RWD LS2 M6 coupe........ when they do. That wasn't an opinion. It was a statement.


Did I mention that the G6 coupe looks great? :D

That's great. I think it look pretty decent too.

Joe--

I think what he was getting at was that you asked for a "Pontiac to have a RWD, LS2, M6 coupe." There is such a thing--the GTO.


Exactly... I wasn't really trying to stir the pot, just pointing out (what I thought was) the obvious... :o

Joe--

I think what he was getting at was that you asked for a "Pontiac to have a RWD, LS2, M6 coupe." There is such a thing--the GTO.

Nope...... I very clearly stated a G6 with an LS2 and RWD and not a GTO with an LS2 and RWD.

"G6+LS2+rwd=something to go into debt for." was exactly how I put it. There is no "GTO" in there anywhere. In any case, it's over.

And one parting thought, I wasn't bitching or whining. That started in response to my post. Some folks take this stuff way too seriously and decide to make a big issue over a simple opinion. :alert:

Nope...... I very clearly stated a G6 with an LS2 and RWD and not a GTO with an LS2 and RWD.

"G6+LS2+rwd=something to go into debt for." was exactly how I put it. There is no "GTO" in there anywhere. In any case, it's over.

And one parting thought, I wasn't bitching or whining. That started in response to my post. Some folks take this stuff way too seriously and decide to make a big issue over a simple opinion. :alert:

You ask for a LS2 RWD Pontiac coupe (granted G6... even though that's not really possible... :confused: ) I point out they already have that segment covered by GTO.... you get cranky about me pointing that out... OK... :shrug:

Peace Be With You. :)

That was a pretty useless exchange.

FWIW, complaining about back seat access in a GTO while owning an f-body is one of the funniest things i ever heard. 'more room' in the backseat of a GTO is the understatement of the year, an f-body makes a GTO backseat look like a 1977 B-body for christ's sake. Who cares how fast you can get in if you can't move or breathe once you're in there.

While i agree the backseat access was a little bit of a nuisance at first, in a world where everyone has gone insanely impatient, waiting 5 seconds (YES, really, count out loud, one mississippi, two mississippi...) to get in the backseat is a small price to pay for having a cushy bucket seat with a side window you can see out of and your own AC vents too. God forbid the driver start the car and let it warm up for 5 seconds while the passengers board the vehicle.

You guys are amazing. If somene has a dissenting opinion, the attack begins.

Here is something to try with a GTO. Remain seated in the driver's seat and have a passenger remain in the passenger seat. Now see how easily a child can get into the back seat with the fronts occupied. At least with my "outdated" and "old" f-body, my son can get in and out without me getting out of the seat. I lean foreward just a bit and he can slide right past..... all without the aid of motorized seats. Granted there isn't as much total room, but he's just a kid and there's plenty of room for him. Even funnier is that in my "really old" Buick GN, he slides out just as easy. Now there's a back seat that is really comfortable.

We already know those of you that bought GTOs love them, at least have the common courtesy to leave other's opinions alone if for whatever reason something turns them off about a product. I just don't get the lack of understanding and courtesy. most likely I'll get bar-b-qued for that one too.

And yes I agree...... this was one of the most worthless exchanges.... all because I like the idea of a G6 made RWD with an LS2. Go figure........ :mad:

Regarding the GTO's back seat......

IF we see a next GTO, it should/needs to be a 5 passenger car. If the current one was, I'd already own one.

Regarding the GTO's back seat......

IF we see a next GTO, it should/needs to be a 5 passenger car. If the current one was, I'd already own one.


I wonder how difficult that would be to achieve when you factor in the driveshaft tunnel, and any real attempt to keep the car low to the ground for better handling and looks.

I wonder how difficult that would be to achieve when you factor in the driveshaft tunnel, and any real attempt to keep the car low to the ground for better handling and looks.

The Big 3 made 5-seater RWD cars for years, of course. With IRS it's even a bit easier since you don't need as much clearance for a driveshaft moving up and down. Take a look at the back seat of any Subaru for example.

The Big 3 made 5-seater RWD cars for years, of course.

Very true... I was just thinking more along the lines of keeping it with a modern, sporty stance... rather than something taht sits up high like the older cars.

With IRS it's even a bit easier since you don't need as much clearance for a driveshaft moving up and down. Take a look at the back seat of any Subaru for example.

Good point, and I think it is safe to assume that a future GTO would have IRS....

I wonder how difficult that would be to achieve when you factor in the driveshaft tunnel, and any real attempt to keep the car low to the ground for better handling and looks.

There seems to be enough room back there. It wouldn't necessarily need to fit 3 adults comfortably everyday......just have a third seat belt position.

There seems to be enough room back there. It wouldn't necessarily need to fit 3 adults comfortably everyday......just have a third seat belt position.


Ya, I suppose they could get the bench seat back there with no issue, other than losing support and possibly comfort for the back seat passengers vs the current rear buckets.

I think it'd be a pretty tight fit for 3 even with a bench though.... :think: When I go out to lunch today, I'll play closer attention to it, and see how the seat room and foot room would be in the existing car with a bench...

Ya, I suppose they could get the bench seat back there with no issue, other than losing support and possibly comfort for the back seat passengers vs the current rear buckets.

I think it'd be a pretty tight fit for 3 even with a bench though.... :think: When I go out to lunch today, I'll play closer attention to it, and see how the seat room and foot room would be in the existing car with a bench...

Yeah, doesn't really needs to take up lots of room, or even need to be a bench. Maybe just a 60/40 arrangement. Basicly, for me, I'd want the ability to fit 3 kids back there, a handful of times per year. Maybe not too important for alot of you guys...but for me ( and I think I'm the demographic the car is aimed at), it's a real selling point.

BTW, before anyone brings it up, GTO is NOT a Camaro...so I wouldn't expect or want any of this in a ponycar.

From a desiger's perspective...you guys wanting to shove kid's in the back seat do realize you are the minority (and I mean MINORITY) of the market. I can't speak from experience (unforunately) but from past discussions coupes are generally 'personal' vehicles (meaning single people or couples without kids) where the driver's experience and to a lesser extent the passenger's experience in terms of style and front seat(s) enviroment (aesthetics, ergonomics, control functions) are more important that utility.

Not bithcin' at ya, just starting to hate the 'why didn't they or won't they or couldn't they build it like this' talk in some of these threads.

From a desiger's perspective...you guys wanting to shove kid's in the back seat do realize you are the minority (and I mean MINORITY) of the market. I can't speak from experience (unforunately) but from past discussions coupes are generally 'personal' vehicles (meaning single people or couples without kids) where the driver's experience and to a lesser extent the passenger's experience in terms of style and front seat(s) enviroment (aesthetics, ergonomics, control functions) are more important that utility.

Not bithcin' at ya, just starting to hate the 'why didn't they or won't they or couldn't they build it like this' talk in some of these threads.

No. Coupes are in the minority for this reason. Not people who would buy coupes if they were more functional. You have it backwards.

From a desiger's perspective...you guys wanting to shove kid's in the back seat do realize you are the minority (and I mean MINORITY) of the market. I can't speak from experience (unforunately) but from past discussions coupes are generally 'personal' vehicles (meaning single people or couples without kids) where the driver's experience and to a lesser extent the passenger's experience in terms of style and front seat(s) enviroment (aesthetics, ergonomics, control functions) are more important that utility.

Not bithcin' at ya, just starting to hate the 'why didn't they or won't they or couldn't they build it like this' talk in some of these threads.

Some people think a GTO isn't a real GTO without fake hoodscoops. I think a GTO isn't a real GTO unless it can seat three people in the back seat.

Again: GTO is not a Camaro.

No. Coupes are in the minority for this reason. Not people who would buy coupes if they were more functional. You have it backwards.


Oh yeah? I guess you know more than years of market research that I"ve read about and have talked to people about..... :rolleyes:

From a desiger's perspective...you guys wanting to shove kid's in the back seat do realize you are the minority (and I mean MINORITY) of the market. .

That very well could be. I know that when my son was born, all three of my Corvettes went bye bye. I didn't want to graduate to a sedan, so my couple of f-bodies with a small back seat filled the bill. I did end up getting an Impala SS after a bit, but a year later I traded it for a much needed Crew Cab Dually.

Oh yeah? I guess you know more than years of market research that I"ve read about and have talked to people about..... :rolleyes:

Are you the VP of marketing at GM? You sure do sound like it. Regardless of what you have heard, use common sense. Make a car less of a hassle and open up the market to familys can be a bad thing how? The people that would buy the coupe for what it is will buy it anyway. Everything you gain is just gravy.

Are you the VP of marketing at GM? You sure do sound like it. Regardless of what you have heard, use common sense. Make a car less of a hassle and open up the market to familys can be a bad thing how? The people that would buy the coupe for what it is will buy it anyway. Everything you gain is just gravy.

No more an expert of GM marketing that you are appearently. I've got 6+ years of design and research to stand on. What are you bringin' to the table (might be why it sounds like I know a little about what I'm talkin' about :think:)?

Common sense: a car that's less of a hassle and open to families = sedans, minivans, SUVs and wagons. Cars that place style over conveience for people without kids = coupe. Percentage of the market who wants to put kids in the backseat of a coupe on a semi regular basis = very small and appearently the return on the investment isn't there..otherwise the cuope market wouldn't be so small, would it?

No more an expert of GM marketing that you are appearently. I've got 6+ years of design and research to stand on. What are you bringin' to the table (might be why it sounds like I know a little about what I'm talkin' about :think:)?

Common sense: a car that's less of a hassle and open to families = sedans, minivans, SUVs and wagons. Cars that place style over conveience for people without kids = coupe. Percentage of the market who wants to put kids in the backseat of a coupe on a semi regular basis = very small and appearently the return on the investment isn't there..otherwise the cuope market wouldn't be so small, would it?
then explain 3/4 door coupes( RX-8,ion etc)?

I'm with Jason on this one.

Up here in Yooperland and Northern Wisconsin, you don't dare have a RWD

For here in my neck of the woods, it's not so much a matter of traction when you are rolling as it is to get moving (deep snow), and this is where FWD/4x4/AWD is king in terms of real world useage in winter.

Let me be the fellow Wisconsinite that disagrees with you :D

Give me RWD without performance tires any winter!

RWD is better for someone who knows how to drive for the same reasons it's better for performance. Control.

I will agree that FWD does get you going better from a stop. I'm not so concerned about that though, if I can't get going I can't wreck. Losing control at speed is a more serious issue for me. The RWD still does fine at getting the vehicle moving it just doesn't give the illusion of control that FWD might... this isn't a bad thing.

For most people, FWD is probably better though.

Don't even compare 4x4 with FWD :no:

With all due respect, there is a very good way to regain control with FWD when it begins sliding.

GET OFF THE GAS. Yes, its that easy. I've tried it. When I've messed with my GP for fun, and get it out of shape, I GET OFF THE GAS. That's all :)

then explain 3/4 door coupes( RX-8,ion etc)?

Both are still 2 small seaters in the rear. The RX-8 is a niche car which means they expected low volume and could throw out a wild idea like that (and the rear doors don't sell the car) and the Saturn has it's own cult like following.

Rear 3/4 doors could be popular on most coupes, all I'm saying is most people who make hauling things in the back seat on a semi regular basis one of their top priorities will look to a sedan becuase they won't accept the short comings of a coupe configurations.

No more an expert of GM marketing that you are appearently. I've got 6+ years of design and research to stand on. What are you bringin' to the table (might be why it sounds like I know a little about what I'm talkin' about :think:)?

Common sense: a car that's less of a hassle and open to families = sedans, minivans, SUVs and wagons. Cars that place style over conveience for people without kids = coupe. Percentage of the market who wants to put kids in the backseat of a coupe on a semi regular basis = very small and appearently the return on the investment isn't there..otherwise the cuope market wouldn't be so small, would it?

I meant that GM thinks like you. They think research on current models dictates the futire. Its inovative to slap a 3rd seat in the back in this segment. People dont know they want it until they can have it.

Oddly, I agree with falchulk. Both the GTO, and even the G6 coupe should have a 3rd spot in the back. There's no reason not to. Headroom is limited in the rear of the G6 coupe as I said before, but that still shouldn't stop them from throwing a 3rd seatbelt back there.

I meant that GM thinks like you. They think research on current models dictates the futire. Its inovative to slap a 3rd seat in the back in this segment. People dont know they want it until they can have it.

I agree complete on the last point. :thumb:

Regarding the third seat, I'm willing to bet that in coupe market families and poeple back there are so much the minority it isn't worth the investment at the end of the day. Is it innovative, yes, but...there's probably better areas to focus your energy.

Oddly, I agree with falchulk. Both the GTO, and even the G6 coupe should have a 3rd spot in the back. There's no reason not to. Headroom is limited in the rear of the G6 coupe as I said before, but that still shouldn't stop them from throwing a 3rd seatbelt back there.

Agree.

Oddly, I agree with falchulk. Both the GTO, and even the G6 coupe should have a 3rd spot in the back. There's no reason not to. Headroom is limited in the rear of the G6 coupe as I said before, but that still shouldn't stop them from throwing a 3rd seatbelt back there.

Cmon Jason, it's not like we dont agree all the time:)

Guess I must be out of the loop, I thought the G6 was supposed to be available with awd in some trim. I guess Pontiac dropped that idea in favor of fwd for all their cars..........I deff think awd would have been a great option in this car.