Dealers are a pain...

except for the honest reputable ones ;) like Jason E sounds like.
So me and my sister are looking for a Grand Am GT for her. We come across a nice white one with good miles and it's a coupe, so it's nice. We went to talk numbers. They didn't come down too much on price, tried to convince me they were only making 500$ on it (yea right, give me a break) and then had the nerve to add on more money to the sale without informing us at all. It was the absolute WORST dealer experience I've had. It was absolutely unnerving sitting there while they tried to shove this crap down our throat. We had to just walk out totally disgusted. Now even though this was a used car, I know the same happens to new ones at some dealerships.

Now, just to make this relevant to this forum, would everybody else here be fine if GM as a whole went to no-haggle pricing? I mean, we checked one out at a Saturn and they were the nicest place we have been too. It was unbelievable the amount of courtesy and kindness they expressed and if the car had been right, we would've bought there no doubt. Just wondering how everybody would feel on this because I personally HATE haggling and would just like to have a set price on the window sticker and pay it.

I don't know what's so bad about this dealership. According to BM, they're just being "innovative". <sarcasm off>. Maybe BM can help you out.

I've been saying no haggle right along. Set the price and forget it. But then the dealers couldn't rape us if they did that.

I've been saying no haggle right along. Set the price and forget it. But then the dealers couldn't rape us if they did that.

They'd rape you on the trade-in.

Then I'd sell it private party. ;)

I agree No-Haggle pricing is where it's at. C'mon GM. Pay your salesmen a salary too, NOT COMMISSION.

except for the honest reputable ones ;) like Jason E sounds like.
So me and my sister are looking for a Grand Am GT for her. We come across a nice white one with good miles and it's a coupe, so it's nice. We went to talk numbers. They didn't come down too much on price, tried to convince me they were only making 500$ on it (yea right, give me a break) and then had the nerve to add on more money to the sale without informing us at all. It was the absolute WORST dealer experience I've had. It was absolutely unnerving sitting there while they tried to shove this crap down our throat. We had to just walk out totally disgusted. Now even though this was a used car, I know the same happens to new ones at some dealerships.

Now, just to make this relevant to this forum, would everybody else here be fine if GM as a whole went to no-haggle pricing? I mean, we checked one out at a Saturn and they were the nicest place we have been too. It was unbelievable the amount of courtesy and kindness they expressed and if the car had been right, we would've bought there no doubt. Just wondering how everybody would feel on this because I personally HATE haggling and would just like to have a set price on the window sticker and pay it.

In my line of work I negotiate every day. So personally I’d find going into a dealership and playing their game to be a bit fun.

However I understand exactly what you’re saying.
People who work at dealerships don’t do business like the rest of the business world. They have an “attitude” plainly put. And that is the problem. Unlike one of my clients who I have to (and want to) work with down the road cars salesmen treat their buyers like cheap whores. Treat nice enough, take their money and leave. And unfortunately they can get away with this because even if they lose one sale they know some other unknowing buyer will come in right after the last one leaves.

If they weren’t so full of sh*t in everything they said negotiations would not be so bad.

So yeah, no haggle pricing MIGHT force some of these guys to be better when its come to being personable.

Salary for salesman would be nice too. Once again it puts the sale back into being a people-person.

Either way something is going to need to change.

unvc,
Post the specs of the car you were buying...I can at least tell you pretty quick if it was an ok deal or not. Believe it or not, Grand Am GTs never sell for a huge margin. They sell like hotcakes at auctions, and I've seen black ones go for a full $500 more than say a white or a green. And seeing as how you can't realistically sell it for over book (although I know dealers that will try like hell), margins can be slim on GTs. Dealers pay premiums for them because they know they can turn them fast, make a few bucks and go grab another...SEs on our lot sit at least 3x as long.

Not saying he was making only $500, but maybe he wasn't making a killing either. Where I work, I actually convinced the sales manager to let us go to one-price on used cars a few years ago for about a year (then I left). Every car had the NADA average retail as the list price, and then what we figured we could get easily enough as a sale price. Every car had both prices hanging from the rear view mirror on a big red tag, and the response was amazing...Grand Ams, Aleros and Grand Prixs were flying out of here (this was '02-'03 timeframe) faster than we could go back to the auction to get them, and we made roughly $1,200 per car. It was a respectable profit, and the customer typically got the car for anywhere between $500 and $1,500 behind NADA retail, depending on how well my sales manager and I bid at the auction :D

Of course, since I went to only working Saturday, they abandoned that because "the profit margins were too skinny," and went back to asking NADA retail for everything and making people haggle. I know sales are way down, and sure profit margins may be higher, but inventory turn went way up and total profit went down. Plus, we lose the customer base and the warranty work by selling less cars.

Hey, I tried...

Jason, the price wasn't too bad really. It was dead on blue book and that's what they said they would go with. Well, he went and figured out a price which didn't add up at all between the interest rate, tax, and title. And the reason I knew he wasn't gonna only make 500$ on the car was when I told him that I was a little skeptical of that, he gave me the reddest, most pissed off look I've ever seen. Even my sister recognized that look. Let's just say he should not play poker. :)

And I totally agree with you Jason on the one price thing even on used cars. I was tempted to ask the Saturn if they did that because the car they had was nice, but too many miles. But clear as day, it gave the blue book value (or Edmunds or something) and had that price there for everbody to see. On a side note, if anybody can get an Economist, they had an article about the future of car-buying that basically would let you build your own car online and just pick it up at a dealer. So it would be more of a service than a sale for the dealership. Interesting read.

But yea, I'm going to go test drive a black GA for my sister right now. We'll see how this one goes. :)

Remember, black ones are faster :) Mine was black!

In my line of work I negotiate every day. So personally I’d find going into a dealership and playing their game to be a bit fun.



I have a buddy that is like that. It is kinda fun to watch him and a salesman go back and forth, but after a few minutes it starts to get irritating....

I have a buddy that is like that. It is kinda fun to watch him and a salesman go back and forth, but after a few minutes it starts to get irritating....


I just sit back and smile, I like to watch them squirm.

They only got under my skin once recently when I went to go look at an ’02 Z28. I finally realized I was just in love with the car (bad place to be in when your trying to buy) and that I was about to get screwed and walked out. Over the next few days over the phone I got them to go down another $2000 but I had lost interest becaus ethe color wasent what I was really looking for.

I have beat this dead horse before but the North Texas GM dealers are the reason I did not buy a SS in 01 and 02, and why I have not bought a GTO in 04 and 05.

General attitudes, bad dealing, and in the case of the GTO it was those things and mark ups that ran me off.

I did not pay sticker for any of the 'stangs I have bought in the last few years...including hot cars like the Bullitt and my current Mach 1. I only saw one Ford house try to mark up Machs.

Ford dealers however are playing that game with the GT and the soon to come out Shelby GT350...and it ticks me off.

I wrote GM and told them about the things that happend when I tried to buy cars and they simply gave me the same old story about how they can't control the dealers.

I wish they could set something up where one could not charge more than the MSRP on a car.

I can play the game, I used to sell cars and my Dad works for the oldest note lot in Texas...but this new breed of salesmen and managers suck, don't care about service, can't play the game, and keep putting add on prices on the cars and I see the cars sit for months on end and then they deal when they could have sold it months before and maybe more unit overall if they would deal. I see no strategy with these clowns anymore.

I watched GTO's sit for four to five months in 04 in Lewisville...and I watched them get bird **** that ruined the paint on them and wear and tear from sitting...some of them looked old when they were new. In fact, those guys I think had the last Anny Trans Am I saw and I swear they had that thing for over nine months. Its just stupid what they do now.

I can see paying sticker for something that is hot...but mark ups, no way!

I know I have said it before in older posts but I have such a mad on for GM for killing the 'maro, the mark ups, and the boring GTO looks. I want a GM that makes a product I can't resist...I have had f bodies, SS montes, and so on...and nothing they make right now is bringing me in.

I know, I know, same old rant from me and so many others but everytime I see this dealer nonsense I get fired up.

I have a buddy that is like that. It is kinda fun to watch him and a salesman go back and forth, but after a few minutes it starts to get irritating....

If they have to go back to the sales manager more than twice the manager should get off his rear and step in IMHO.

At a Dodge dealer I sent the guy back six times and walked out twice and they kept following me into the parking lot (a couple of salesmen were trying to double team me) and finally the manager talked to me. The deal I got was far more than I ever expected but I was getting bored with it...I killed them on that car. It should not take that much of my time to get what I want and the fact that I got even more because they became desperate shows a real lack of ability overall at that place.

Not only did I get the van cheap, I got a massive extended warrenty.

I use internet or fleet sales people most of the time now...they have a little more freedom and usally cut to the chase quicker and give better deals.

I've been to a few dealers in my time and what's sad is almost every single dealer (Chevy/Toyota/Dodge) I've been to, they did the high pressure "SIGN NOW DO IT!!!" routine.

The funniest line I got was at a Chevy truck place in Virginia Beach - RK Chevrolet: "Come on, man! It's Saturday afternoon, I wanna sell trucks!" :lol: WTF does that mean, anyway?

Recently, I went to an Audi and an Infiiniti dealer. Night and f'n day compared to the others. Nice, relaxed, here's some coffee, here're the keys, tell us what you think! Give us a call when you've had some time to mull it over.. Great experiences.

If they have to go back to the sales manager more than twice the manager should get off his rear and step in IMHO.

At a Dodge dealer I sent the guy back six times and walked out twice and they kept following me into the parking lot (a couple of salesmen were trying to double team me) and finally the manager talked to me. The deal I got was far more than I ever expected but I was getting bored with it...I killed them on that car. It should not take that much of my time to get what I want and the fact that I got even more because they became desperate shows a real lack of ability overall at that place.

Not only did I get the van cheap, I got a massive extended warrenty.



You remind me of a customer I had yesterday. Are you happy about the deal you got on that van? Would you go back to that place? Probably not. Thats why salespeople treat customers the way they do, no loyalty from the customer. Sounds like these guys busted their a** to sell you a car. I hope you appreciate that.

There is a saying "The only way to get back at a customer is to take their money", thats what they did to you.

There is a saying "The only way to get back at a customer is to take their money", thats what they did to you.So when you get customers who don't fight tooth and nail for everything and you wind up getting more money out of them - you're really getting them back!

You remind me of a customer I had yesterday. Are you happy about the deal you got on that van? Would you go back to that place? Probably not. Thats why salespeople treat customers the way they do, no loyalty from the customer. Sounds like these guys busted their a** to sell you a car. I hope you appreciate that.

There is a saying "The only way to get back at a customer is to take their money", thats what they did to you.

Oh yeah they "busted their a** " by deciding to take less profit and just move the car. :rolleyes:

You remind me of a customer I had yesterday. Are you happy about the deal you got on that van? Would you go back to that place? Probably not. Thats why salespeople treat customers the way they do, no loyalty from the customer. Sounds like these guys busted their a** to sell you a car. I hope you appreciate that.

There is a saying "The only way to get back at a customer is to take their money", thats what they did to you.


A good salesman shouldn't need to get back at a customer, that is the whole point. The whole system is messed up and needs to be fixed. You end up with pissed off consumers and sales people and it hurts everything else in the chain.

So when you get customers who don't fight tooth and nail for everything and you wind up getting more money out of them - you're really getting them back!

Thats not what I'm saying. If you let an ******* walk out the door he got the best of you thats all.

Oh yeah they "busted their a** " by deciding to take less profit and just move the car. :rolleyes:


If you never worked in the business you don't understand what a salesperson goes through. Not all salespeople are theives. I pride myself in being as honest as possible and I sell quite a few cars, make a good buck, and I can sleep at night with a clear conscience(sp?).

Answer this question whats a good deal? $100 over invoice? Invoice? $500 under invoice? So when you go to buy a television at Best Buy, Sears, ect. and you pay full price for it and a few weeks later it's half price did those stores steal from you. No! The only problem I can see is an uneducated consumer.

A good salesman shouldn't need to get back at a customer, that is the whole point. The whole system is messed up and needs to be fixed. You end up with pissed off consumers and sales people and it hurts everything else in the chain.


I see 3 types of people everyday. A smart person that did their research, scared people that have no clue, and people that are ready for a fight. Where I work we are about customer service. The person looking for a fight is the one to get back at because in his head he thinks he is not getting the best deal. I can give this person a car for what we paid for it and this person is still not satisfied (after spending like avg time of 4-5 hours). The only way to get back at this type of person (for keeping me away from another potential sale) is to sell them a car or "take their money" (old school saying).

How much is she looking to spend? With GM's employee discount she should be able to get a new car for cheaper, with lower interest rates if she financed/leased it.
BTW isn't the Grand Am the most dated car on the market right now? No offense to Grand Am owners, they look like pretty cool cars but they STILL sell them without changing sh!t.

Thats not what I'm saying. If you let an ******* walk out the door he got the best of you thats all.I see, got it.

You know what really irks me with dealers? It's the slimey ones after the sales people. The under coating person tries to add a bunch of wacky things like window etchings, ultrasuperdeluxe paint 'seals', and, of course, under coatings. All at rediculously pumped up prices. Then the finance person will try to tell you your credit's not quite what it takes to get that good rate (regardless what it really is) and tries to steer you towards some 9% nonsense.

I've since learned that to skip these bozos and come in with my own $.

I see, got it.

You know what really irks me with dealers? It's the slimey ones after the sales people. The under coating person tries to add a bunch of wacky things like window etchings, ultrasuperdeluxe paint 'seals', and, of course, under coatings. All at rediculously pumped up prices. Then the finance person will try to tell you your credit's not quite what it takes to get that good rate (regardless what it really is) and tries to steer you towards some 9% nonsense.

I've since learned that to skip these bozos and come in with my own $.

Where I work we don't pull stuff like that we have a reputation to up hold. All I am saying is to do your research before you go in to buy, makes your life easier and the salespersons life easier. (that way you know for sure your getting a good deal).

How much is she looking to spend? With GM's employee discount she should be able to get a new car for cheaper, with lower interest rates if she financed/leased it.
BTW isn't the Grand Am the most dated car on the market right now? No offense to Grand Am owners, they look like pretty cool cars but they STILL sell them without changing sh!t.
Well, she was looking at Cobalt coupes, but she really wants to get a GA. I figured it's better anyways as it's cheaper in the long run, leases are a pain (jmho), and her next car she'll be able to buy new and she'll get this GA thing out of her blood.
But yea, hopefully she'll be buying a black 2001 on Monday. We'll see how it turns out. This dealer doesn't seem too bad right now, we'll see how they are when we talk numbers though.

You remind me of a customer I had yesterday. Are you happy about the deal you got on that van? Would you go back to that place? Probably not. Thats why salespeople treat customers the way they do, no loyalty from the customer. Sounds like these guys busted their a** to sell you a car. I hope you appreciate that.

There is a saying "The only way to get back at a customer is to take their money", thats what they did to you.


If you consider offering me sticker...then taking off 100 bucks, then taking 500 bucks off, and so on AND taking a long time to come back each time they vanished busting your ass the way to sell a car then I pitty you.

I researched the van before I went in...told them what I would pay and tried to leave. I made it clear I knew what invoice was and what I was willing to pay from the start.

They kept trying to "sell" me a car.

Finally they offered me what I wanted but I was ready to go, so then they offered me more.

So yeah, they busted their asses looking like asses.

I did not go back either to buy the second van because they have a weak service dept., the kind that takes two or three tries to fix something.

So if you consider that a good way to do stuff and think I am such a jerk well more power to you.

When I bought my Mach I knew what the incentives were and what 500 over invoice was...it aint hard to go in knowing what the car can and should be sold for....esp. when it is just a standard unit.

If you have that kind of info and they try to play games then who is waisting whos time?

I was done in 30 min on the second van I got and will go back to that dealer.

Whatever dude...

Where I work we don't pull stuff like that we have a reputation to up hold. All I am saying is to do your research before you go in to buy, makes your life easier and the salespersons life easier. (that way you know for sure your getting a good deal).

I don't mean this as a knock against you, but every dealership I see that says this, charges outrageous prices. I won't mention the name of the main offender, but they are huge on their reputation and respecting the customer. What they really do is ream the **** out of everyone who buys their cars. When GMS pricing was a few weeks in, the girlfriend and I went to go look at Cobalts for her. We were talking to the salesman about pricing and when I mentioned it, he stuttered for a minute before blurting out, "Well that is a tricky thing you see, it requires certain financing rates you don't qualify for...".

I know good salespeople exist, I just haven't ever seen one. It really is too bad. The dealership with it's supposed sterling reputation lost a sale right there.

If you consider offering me sticker...then taking off 100 bucks, then taking 500 bucks off, and so on AND taking a long time to come back each time they vanished busting your ass the way to sell a car then I pitty you.

I researched the van before I went in...told them what I would pay and tried to leave. I made it clear I knew what invoice was and what I was willing to pay from the start.

They kept trying to "sell" me a car.

Finally they offered me what I wanted but I was ready to go, so then they offered me more.

So yeah, they busted their asses looking like asses.

I did not go back either to buy the second van because they have a weak service dept., the kind that takes two or three tries to fix something.

So if you consider that a good way to do stuff and think I am such a jerk well more power to you.

When I bought my Mach I knew what the incentives were and what 500 over invoice was...it aint hard to go in knowing what the car can and should be sold for....esp. when it is just a standard unit.

If you have that kind of info and they try to play games then who is waisting whos time?

I was done in 30 min on the second van I got and will go back to that dealer.

Whatever dude...


Every dealer conducts business a different way. Please don't make it sound like you are gonna get the same service where ever you go. That isn't how I do business or the store I work for. If I was treated the same way I would be pissed too.

I don't mean this as a knock against you, but every dealership I see that says this, charges outrageous prices. I won't mention the name of the main offender, but they are huge on their reputation and respecting the customer. What they really do is ream the **** out of everyone who buys their cars. When GMS pricing was a few weeks in, the girlfriend and I went to go look at Cobalts for her. We were talking to the salesman about pricing and when I mentioned it, he stuttered for a minute before blurting out, "Well that is a tricky thing you see, it requires certain financing rates you don't qualify for...".

I know good salespeople exist, I just haven't ever seen one. It really is too bad. The dealership with it's supposed sterling reputation lost a sale right there.

I don't know where you live but in Chicago our nearest competitor is less then 5 miles away. In order for us to stay in business we have to satisfy our customers 100%. We don't pull that kind of crap. If I rip you off are you going to buy your next car from me? Probably not.

In some markets the next dealership is 100 miles away and those dealers get away with murder.

Find your self a mom and pop dealer you will get the best service from a place like that, or e-mail the $hit out of your local dealers (ask for their best number) and let them know what kind of deal their competitor is giving you.
Thats how I bought my 2004 Impala SS for $500 under invoice minus rebates and they gave me $1000 more than anyone else (even where I work! :eek: ) for my trade-in. It's not rocket science guys. This is the same advice I give all my friends.