Performance air filters – What’s the point?

I bought a performance air filter a few months ago, is it just a waste of money?
1/. Performance - I have not noticed any increase in BHP
2/. Eye candy - Once it is installed you can’t see it
3/. Value for money - It lasts a long time but costs 3 to 4 times the price of a stock filter
4/. Servicing cost - The cleaning kit costs almost as much as a stock replacement filter
5/. Servicing time - It takes longer to clean than just replace

There is no point really. You can buy a clear lid from MTI and then you would be able to see the filter but who cares?

I am pretty sure pyschocabbage tested his car and actually lost some power with the performance filter installed. :eek:

everyone who throws on a lid and a K&N feels the difference....and they've been dyno proven to make power...and more importantly they're a starting block for the other mods you make to your car....the motor needs to breath and when you start making real power you need to get more air in and more air out....the motor is just a pump.

wasnt there a very long and involved thread about how performance filters do not really offer any benefits over a stock paper replacement?

Yeah, it was a major long and inconclusive thread. You already have one, so relax.

I put in a lid and K&N, didn't notice a difference but it really cleans up under the hood. I was going to switch back to my paper filter, but i opened up the lid and the K&N was pretty clean, and the screened MAF didn't have anything on it like it did when i had the paper filter, so i just left it alone.

I do have a slight whistle tho. Not sure if that's from the lid or the AIR tube. :confused:

I threw in a K&N and defiantly noticed more midrange pull and throttle response...

you don't think that was because of putting in a new filter? When i changed my original (never changed in 36k miles :eek: ) paper filter with a new one, I definitely noticed a difference in throttle responce.

From that to the lid and clean K&N, i can't say i noticed anything. 10hp maybe, but unless you have motion sickness, you won't notice a difference.

you don't think that was because of putting in a new filter?

No,the old paper one was practicly like new,as a matter of fact,I even saved it just incase...It was thrown in when I got a tune up done like 2 weeks before i put in the K&N.


EDIT- Forgot to mention,for Fathers day I bought my pop a Fram "airhog" for his '03 Eclipse...He did very well mention that he did notice more pickup and smoother and stronger acceleration.

Nope. I tried a Fram, K&N and no filter on the dyno and there was no difference. I kept the K&N for a while anyway, until I noticed some grit up by my MAF, which never happened with a Fram. Needless to say, I tossed the K&N... There is no way you could "feel" an increase of 10rwhp (which no filter will give you) on a 300rwhp car anyway...

actually you can notice the difference....its called throttle response....ive got a TA and had a lid and filter....then when i put the Ram Air airbox on i noticed a HUGE pickup in throttle response that night.

everyone who throws on a lid and a K&N feels the difference....and they've been dyno proven to make power...and more importantly they're a starting block for the other mods you make to your car....the motor needs to breath and when you start making real power you need to get more air in and more air out....the motor is just a pump.

they feel a gain from the LID not the FILTER.. I have dyno tested the FILTER ALONE , both with and without a LID and shown it actually HURTS performance. There were over 40 pulls done and on different days. The second series of tests was after the car had traveled from Houston to North Carolina and back with the filter to ensure the computer was well used to it..

The POINT of an aftermarket filter is to get you to waste your money..

i don't know. :shrug: I felt no gain from either.

All cold air kits come with high flow cotton K&N type filters! They are proven to make power...Now all of a sudden Lids are also fake power adders??? What about catbacks?? They dont add any power either?

Losing horsepower by adding a lesser restrictive air filter? WTF?

All cold air kits come with high flow cotton K&N type filters! They are proven to make power...Now all of a sudden Lids are also fake power adders??? What about catbacks?? They dont add any power either?

Losing horsepower by adding a lesser restrictive air filter? WTF?

I never said lids don't add power. I just think that if you can "feel" 10hp added to a 300hp car, it's wishful thinking. By the way, the filter does not make the intake. a paper filter is just as good as a K&N. the reason you don't see a paper filter on an external CAI is because you can't wash them.

I have a 3.1 91 Firebird,It has 140 HP :D (at the crank) :p It was feelable for me :cool:

People get really butt hurt around here when they are told that the 50+ dollars they spent on a "performance" filter was a waste ot cash. Get real folks, paper works just as well, if not slightly better than a "performance" filter. IT IS DYNO PROVEN BY ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD!!!! Not some BS statistic from a corporation.

I never said lids don't add power. I just think that if you can "feel" 10hp added to a 300hp car, it's wishful thinking. By the way, the filter does not make the intake. a paper filter is just as good as a K&N. the reason you don't see a paper filter on an external CAI is because you can't wash them.
and you were also the person who said Turbos are instantaneous boost while superchargers have to build boost :rolleyes: get real guys,put it to the test,go get a real filter and a real lid,NOT some POS one either.And install it and see if you notice anything different...at the least you SHOULD notice better throttle response.Get a ram air airbox and you WILL notice the difference as well.

and you were also the person who said Turbos are instantaneous boost while superchargers have to build boost :rolleyes: get real guys,put it to the test,go get a real filter and a real lid,NOT some POS one either.And install it and see if you notice anything different...at the least you SHOULD notice better throttle response.Get a ram air airbox and you WILL notice the difference as well.

why dont you try it at your next dyno day.
Show up with an AC Delco air filter and your precious cotton gauze element filter.. and wait.. there is more.. Did you know about foam element filter? Ohh yeah.. You didnt research this completely did you?? I did.. I found not only the common 3 cotton filters (K&N, Holley and Accel) but Amsoil has a filter made of foam and its all black.(its real nice looking and actually cheaper than the other 3 when you price the cleaning kit)

In my test, which was conducted at 9K miles and then again at 13K miles the results were the same. 3rwhp LOSS with the following: Cotton gauze filter (the common 3 aftermarket), Foam filter (Amsoil) and .. yes.. NO FILTER.. Install the AC Delco filter and BAM! you get your 3 rwhp back.. so that got me to thinking.. was it because my cars computer had been accustomed to that filter?? so thats when I used the Lid and K&N (most common) on a mega long drive to ensure the cars computer didnt have any learning issues.. Rentded the dyno again for an hour and VIOLA! Same exact information as I got before.. So, being that our cars learn instantly because of the MAF, time had no effect on the results.. My dyno pulls were all done concurrently.. I can swap a filter in less than 45 seconds as the dyno pulls showed.. I ran each 2-3 times back to back to see the deviation in number.. My car being bone stock and an M6 was spitting out very similar numbers. If one pull was 314.6 the next was 314.5. same with torque..

I also tested the Lid (MTI) vs the Stealth Intake.. Lid cost about $65 used.. $125 new.. Stealth was $225... Lid made more power stealth made more torque.. BOTH BY 1 hp margin over the other! hahaha Not worth it at all..

I ran my car at the track with the stock paper filter. It had 38K miles at the time and ran a 13.1@108 still bone stock and in the summer. Believe what you want about replacing and cleaning your filters.. I did my research and never have to spend a weekend cleaning and recharging my filter. Talk about a waste of time and money.

Ok.. so here is the summary so no one misunderstands what I have stated above:
** Paper air filters make more power than aftermarket performance air filters in our cars. This claim compared panel filter to panel filter and no cone filters were tested.. I do wonder about cones as they have more surface area and pull the air in differently, possibly allowing for a smoother stream (one of the reasons I think paper is better..)
** Lids do make a power gain. I found the gain to be 7-10 rwhp depending on the configuration .. (ie. lid and paper filter, lid and aftermarket filter)

hate to burst your bubble but look back at my other posts...i talked about throttle response 90% of the time...and your data shows what YOU did in YOUR car on A dyno on A certain day...i hardly consider than something everyone should go by when others have stated that they noticed a difference....and most of them probably equate hp with throttle response which is where the confusion is.If you didnt gain anything then im sorry,you posted your opinion of filters so leave it at that.end of story.

I dont understand how his horsepower dropped....?

In my test, which was conducted at 9K miles and then again at 13K miles the results were the same. 3rwhp LOSS with the following: Cotton gauze filter (the common 3 aftermarket), Foam filter (Amsoil) and .. yes.. NO FILTER.. Install the AC Delco filter and BAM! you get your 3 rwhp back.. so that got me to thinking.. was it because my cars computer had been accustomed to that filter?? so thats when I used the Lid and K&N (most common) on a mega long drive to ensure the cars computer didnt have any learning issues.. Rentded the dyno again for an hour and VIOLA! Same exact information as I got before.. So, being that our cars learn instantly because of the MAF, time had no effect on the results.. My dyno pulls were all done concurrently.. I can swap a filter in less than 45 seconds as the dyno pulls showed.. I ran each 2-3 times back to back to see the deviation in number.. My car being bone stock and an M6 was spitting out very similar numbers. If one pull was 314.6 the next was 314.5. same with torque..

Lids ill agree on,theyre all very similar in gains...but as far as your "Filter Dyno" youre missing some stuff...ie if you had NO filter theres no way in HELL that you'd dyno less than WITH a filter,UNLESS you dyno'd with no filter after you dyno'd with a filter...ie sitting on the dyno will raise IAT's and make less power which is where you could say you lost 3 hp.If you do dyno pulls straight for an hour your going to be making less power by the end because of the heat your incurring from sitting up there.now if you dyno tested for a week straight...leave the car on the dyno overnight each night.start the car on the dyno with a different filter combo each day so you have no decrease in IAT's assuming the temp where its being dyno'd is the same.....THEN id listen to the results.But thats hardly effective to prove something for so many members who have noticed a difference.

and you were also the person who said Turbos are instantaneous boost while superchargers have to build boost :rolleyes: get real guys,put it to the test,go get a real filter and a real lid,NOT some POS one either.And install it and see if you notice anything different...at the least you SHOULD notice better throttle response.Get a ram air airbox and you WILL notice the difference as well.

Actually that's not what i said at all. I said that superchargers work higher in the powerband than turbos do, which may or may not be true, but i don't think you can compare air filters and lids to power adders. Acting like a jackass isn't going to help your case any.

A filter's a filter, and a lid's a lid. All lids are made just about the same, all show similar gains. There is no such thing as a "POS" lid, accept one that has a crack in it.

Filters are just there to keep crap from hurting your engine. IMO it is the most ricey thing ever to even consider a filter as "performance". YOU get real. The whole point of actual power is that you don't have to worry about moot points like filters. :rolleyes:

and your still wrong about the turbo/SC deal...and the only way i can see anyone acting like a jackass is by giving them wrong info...and actually there are differences in lids.Chevy High Performance did a comparision as well as others have as well.You dont just say "Oh they're all plastic so ill find the cheapest 1 i can"....Ok so youre saying that filters act to block things going into your engine?So i take it you would agree that in order to do that they would act as a restiction,in order to do their job,correct?Then how the hell do you LOSE hp from not having ANY filter,unless he tested what he wanted to win first!and the rest after the IAT's went up?Now you see why this whole dyno testing,lose power post are such garbage?Im sorry if both of you dont gain anything from filters or much from fliter/lid combos....maybe youll make it up after you do other mods,but the majority vote says otherwise.And not to be nasty but id do your research first before you give someone wrong info that could have cost them $1000's if they listened to you.have a nice day.

I know your not talkign about A/C delco filters being a better bang for the buck than a K&M or equivilent? Last time I check all parts from the dealer are and arm and a leg... and A/C declo doesn't make anything that fits my after market intake.

actually my power did not drop.. why? because a car doesnt heatsoak like you think it does.. there is a reason we have a thermostat, fan and radiator.. its to help maintain the temp of the engine at a certain level.

Otherwise, me running 13.2, 13.1, 13.1 back to back at the track wouldnt make any sense.. especially after driving 65 miles. Its because the LS1 can handle heat easily.

I did the tests (as stated) on two different days. .Each day was a tad over 20 pulls in a row.. the first pull was the same as the last.. there was no deviation as you would of thought.. Perhaps you think that a car that pulls 315 rwhp on its first pull should only be pulling 305 by the 20th.. but its not how it works.. at least I havent seen that.. and on the countless LS1's I have been around or driven at the track..

Maybe whereever the heck you live, there is a vortex that alters all the data I know I found out. I wonder if anyone else found out this data? Ohh yes. .thats right.. Other people on other boards found this out as well..

You can sit there and say "I have more throttle response" and somehow expect that to be more power.. but you know, the DYNO doesnt lie and neither does the track.. I have spent enough time at both to know that I have answered the data for myself.

Enjoy living in your own world..

(by the way, IAT was reading at 108 degrees)
Lids ill agree on,theyre all very similar in gains...but as far as your "Filter Dyno" youre missing some stuff...ie if you had NO filter theres no way in HELL that you'd dyno less than WITH a filter,UNLESS you dyno'd with no filter after you dyno'd with a filter...ie sitting on the dyno will raise IAT's and make less power which is where you could say you lost 3 hp.If you do dyno pulls straight for an hour your going to be making less power by the end because of the heat your incurring from sitting up there.now if you dyno tested for a week straight...leave the car on the dyno overnight each night.start the car on the dyno with a different filter combo each day so you have no decrease in IAT's assuming the temp where its being dyno'd is the same.....THEN id listen to the results.But thats hardly effective to prove something for so many members who have noticed a difference.

Have you even considered what turbulent air does coming into an intake? Ever mess with an LT1 throttle body with and without airfoil? Does it work? Everything I have seen shows it does...
Airfilters act to smooth the airflow.. but what do I know.. :rolleyes:

I know your not talkign about A/C delco filters being a better bang for the buck than a K&M or equivilent? Last time I check all parts from the dealer are and arm and a leg... and A/C declo doesn't make anything that fits my after market intake.

Since when do you have to go to a dealer to get AC Delco? They sell them at autopart stores everywhere...

And from a dealer, the stock air filter costs like $12

what dealer is this?

On an LS1 its a waste, IMO.

On an LT1, its a different story because you can't get the surface area with a paper filter - they don't make them (that I'ma ware of).

Ryan

Have you even considered what turbulent air does coming into an intake? Ever mess with an LT1 throttle body with and without airfoil? Does it work? Everything I have seen shows it does...
Airfilters act to smooth the airflow.. but what do I know.. :rolleyes:

Are you sure airflow isn't more turbulent inside the intake manifold than before the filter? The filter slows it down to filter it, not "smooth the airflow" out. The air has to re-accelerate one it gets past the filter.

Ryan

Are you sure airflow isn't more turbulent inside the intake manifold than before the filter? The filter slows it down to filter it, not "smooth the airflow" out. The air has to re-accelerate one it gets past the filter.

Ryan
and the purpose of the screen on the maf is for??...

ls1's dont heatsoak?!why do you think so many racers are against the LPE/Weiland intake...cause its aluminum and when you sit on the dyno it soaks up heat...and THATS been tested as well.the advantage of it is that it can be ported to increase flow and stock flows slightly better than an LS6...but soaks up heat.And thats another reason why FI people only want the Aluminum LQ9 heads and not the iron 1's....heatsoak!

Not to beat a dead horse, but I did the same thing psychocabbage did on the dyno and the K&N did NOT make more power. I didn't lose anything, but there was no gain either. The throttle response was hard to say as I have a big cam and it comes on so hard, that I wouldn't be able to tell a difference unless there was like a sock in the throttle body. I'll give you my K&N if I can find it...

I did the tests (as stated) on two different days. .Each day was a tad over 20 pulls in a row..

Someone either owns a dyno or has way too much cash burning a hole in his pocket. :eek:


as a point of referance, 25 years ago when K&N filters were fairly new, I had a tunnel rammed small block. The motor was experiencing a high rpm power loss with regular filters in place. A switch to K&N filters netted me another 500 rpm of useable power. Evidently if the motor is indeed capable of more flow, K&N filters will deliver. It must be that a more stock configuration wouldn't gain much.

Someone either owns a dyno or has way too much cash burning a hole in his pocket. :eek:


as a point of referance, 25 years ago when K&N filters were fairly new, I had a tunnel rammed small block. The motor was experiencing a high rpm power loss with regular filters in place. A switch to K&N filters netted me another 500 rpm of useable power. Evidently if the motor is indeed capable of more flow, K&N filters will deliver. It must be that a more stock configuration wouldn't gain much.
ill agree to that....its like i said all a motor is is a pump...if you can get more air IN and more air OUT you make MORE horsepower.

I noticed a drop in fuel mileage after installing a SLP cold air, is this possible?

This thread should be moved to a different forum. I read several of the posts and didn't see anything about nitrous here.

Thats what I was wondering. lol

Moving to General Tech...

When I had my z28, I ran paper filters (ac delco and wix) when I was running the stock lid. When I added the slp cai and Lid, I swapped in a k&n because the k&n can be cleaned and w/ only around 500 miles the filter was dirty because of the cai. I agree with psychocabbage I have seen numerous reports (independent tests) and they have proved that K&N does not add power. They either lose hp or just keeps the same as paper. If you have a ram air like either ftra, slp cai or ssra, then k&n is a good thing since you can clean it, however, if none of the ram air systems I mentioned, then paper is what I recommend. A couple of people asked me if I were going to buy a k&n for my goat and I will not because paper is fine for me.

Charlie

I'd be willing to try paper filters for my SLP CAI, but I don't know which ones to get.

I just dont understand how they would DECREASE power? That sounds like bull****...

From my understanding, more than an increased flow, the real benefit over a paper filter is the ability to maintain it's flow even when dirty. Paper filters supposedly starts loosing its flow alot sooner. I don't have any data to back this supposed claim up, so anyone want to try a dirty paper vs dirty K&N dyno test?

I noticed no gain when I switched from stock paper filter to a K&N filter. It was a little noisier but that was all I noticed for my $50.

Now the SLP CAI, that was noticable.

i really dont understand how you loose power from a higher flowing filter.... of course your not going to feel a few rwhp but still every little bit helps...

I just put my paper filter back in today as a matter of fact. i dont like the fact that when i take off my lid, there is dust on the other side. K&N isnt filtering anything. i ran the car after replacing the paper filter, i feel no difference.