Is it Lutz that cut off Pontiac's Balls?

Just curious? Sissy Styling. Appearing on Oprah and Lifetime. Nascar? and the fact that I honestly believe the Sky should have went to Pontiac and the Solstice to Saturn.

What gives? Why does everyone love Lutz? What exactly did he do at Chrysler besides the Viper that was Worthwhile? Call me ignorant.

"I relish this opportunity to finish out my career as a day-to-day executive, working with Rick and Ron Zarrella and the GM team, to help solidify and accelerate the progress already being made on product by GM."

Turned out great so far.

Lutz wanted to use plastic trim that looked like wood and save $175 a car. Whittaker, a vehicle line executive, believed customers paying big bucks for a Cadillac deserved the real thing -- and he wasn't backing down.

Lutz wanted to use plastic trim that looked like wood and save $175 a car. Whittaker, a vehicle line executive, believed customers paying big bucks for a Cadillac deserved the real thing -- and he wasn't backing down.

You probably got that backwards. Bob knows the devel is in the details. He wants Every GM car to have top of the line fit, finish, and materials.

As far as Pontiac loosing its nuts, besides firebird what else did Pontiac have that offered V8 power? Nothing.

Montana is not Pontiac and GM sees that now. Instead of listening to dealers complain about a broader lineup they are pairing up B-P-GMC in dealerships so the dealership has a full line without having redundacy in the lineup. Consequently expect the GTO to be the highest performance Poncho for a long time. Also expect Pontiacs to top out where Buicks start.

I think things could have been alot worse with out Lutz.


Lutz supposidly also took personal responsibility when he found out the interior parts of a C6 were of lesser quality than was orginal planned, and made sure the better stuff was used.... *shrug*


btw, this is the article that mentions the plastic and caddy's

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/07/A01-53426.htm

however the spin they have on it was,
"What he didn't know was that Lutz was spoiling for a fight -- not necessarily to win, but to send a message that he intended to banish GM's culture of assent, where the boss is always right, even if he or she is wrong."

I also remember reading that Lutz did that to try and change the "me too" culture at GM.
As for Pontiac, I really can't understand why anyone would mourn its change in styling direction. Besides the last Grand Prix, what car would anyone here define as good-looking? The Firebird? It had a thumping V8 to make up for its sins, but it defined overwrought styling. The rest were just a joke. Grand Am? Aztec? Bonneville? Sunfire? By the end of the decade, Pontiac styling had become a cliched metaphor for "tacky" in auto mags. Furthermore, it was NOT "masculine." Dodge styling is masculine. Pontiac styling was butch.

In fact, I think one of the reasons that the GTO is so bland is that Pontiac's styling image was horrible, and people at GM knew anything they did to the exterior might be badly received.

Also, I really don't see how the G6 styling is "sissy." It's gender neutral if you ask me. More importantly, it looks very good. I don't think anyone would argue with me if I said that it's the nicest looking vehicle in the Pontiac showroom right now. Granted, it's not really competing with much, but it still proves a point.

Also, Pontiac is advertising to men. Besides the Speed TV ads in all the auto mags thi month, they have a really creative promotion in Maxim. How come no one has mentioned that? Don't everybody start pretending that you don't look at Maxim magazines...

The "production plastics" was a ploy by Lutz to see who would go "toe to toe" with him regarding his fathomed decision.

He basically wanted to see who had the balls to stand up to him. Nothing more, nothing less.

What balls?

Just curious? Sissy Styling. Appearing on Oprah and Lifetime. Nascar? and the fact that I honestly believe the Sky should have went to Pontiac and the Solstice to Saturn.

What gives? Why does everyone love Lutz? What exactly did he do at Chrysler besides the Viper that was Worthwhile? Call me ignorant.

OK......Ignorant! :lol:

Styling changes take years to work through the system, and Bob Lutz isn't a designer, he is Product Chairman. He primarily coordinates new vehicles and the budget for them, sets the standards he wants in cars via materials and components, and sets styling direction, all with the help of an army of people including the General Manager of the Pontiac Motor Division, Lynn Myers (who also runs GMC).

The reason why everyone loves Bob Lutz (beyond being amazingly accessible for his job level) is that he's the reason why GM's interiors and quality of materials has done a 180 degree turn around. Look at the level of quality in your WS6, then look inside the new G6. That's Lutz.

He also reversed GM's policy of minimal investment in cars as well as GM-North America's move to FWD in every car save Cadillac's and Corvettes. He had a very agressive RWD program in effect that's been downgraded somewhat because of GM's finncial realities.

"I relish this opportunity to finish out my career as a day-to-day executive, working with Rick and Ron Zarrella and the GM team, to help solidify and accelerate the progress already being made on product by GM."

Turned out great so far.

Lutz has been there about 3 years, and it takes 5 years to get an all new car to market. His influence so far is on things that occor later in a car's development cycle. Interiors, quality of assembly, powertrain changes, etc.

2006, you'll start seeing the full Lutz effect. The Pontiac Solstice is completely his baby (rather, done under his watch). The V8 "W" cars are his doing. The new Impala was penned by Brian Nesbitt during his short stint at Chevy after being snatched from Chrysler. Nesbitt is now design chief at GM Europe.

Lutz's efforts to date can be seen in the interior levels in the STS, LeCrosse, LeCerne, G6, Cobalt, and the assorted grille opening and tail light arrangement on cars that's debuted over the past year or so.

Lutz wanted to use plastic trim that looked like wood and save $175 a car. Whittaker, a vehicle line executive, believed customers paying big bucks for a Cadillac deserved the real thing -- and he wasn't backing down.

As someone explained above, that was his test to get people to stand up for things that were ridiculous. Vehicles like the Aztek was created because no one stood up and said this is ridiculous, and explain why. This was his way to get the car people (designers, product people, etc...) to say what was on their mind, and not simply go along with something just because it came from an executive.

Go look at the interior of the 2006 Chevy Impala when you get a chance. That's the result of his efforts. :)

Nascar?

Pontiac left NASCAR for one reason. GM neded all of its resources behind one body in order to Toyota. Unfortunately, they are coming. I would expect a Camry on the track by 2007.

OK......Ignorant! :lol:

Styling changes take years to work through the system, and Bob Lutz isn't a designer, he is Product Chairman. He primarily coordinates new vehicles and the budget for them, sets the standards he wants in cars via materials and components, and sets styling direction, all with the help of an army of people including the General Manager of the Pontiac Motor Division, Lynn Myers (who also runs GMC).

The reason why everyone loves Bob Lutz (beyond being amazingly accessible for his job level) is that he's the reason why GM's interiors and quality of materials has done a 180 degree turn around. Look at the level of quality in your WS6, then look inside the new G6. That's Lutz.

He also reversed GM's policy of minimal investment in cars as well as GM-North America's move to FWD in every car save Cadillac's and Corvettes. He had a very agressive RWD program in effect that's been downgraded somewhat because of GM's finncial realities.



Lutz has been there about 3 years, and it takes 5 years to get an all new car to market. His influence so far is on things that occor later in a car's development cycle. Interiors, quality of assembly, powertrain changes, etc.

2006, you'll start seeing the full Lutz effect. The Pontiac Solstice is completely his baby (rather, done under his watch). The V8 "W" cars are his doing. The new Impala was penned by Brian Nesbitt during his short stint at Chevy after being snatched from Chrysler. Nesbitt is now design chief at GM Europe.

Lutz's efforts to date can be seen in the interior levels in the STS, LeCrosse, LeCerne, G6, Cobalt, and the assorted grille opening and tail light arrangement on cars that's debuted over the past year or so.



As someone explained above, that was his test to get people to stand up for things that were ridiculous. Vehicles like the Aztek was created because no one stood up and said this is ridiculous, and explain why. This was his way to get the car people (designers, product people, etc...) to say what was on their mind, and not simply go along with something just because it came from an executive.

Go look at the interior of the 2006 Chevy Impala when you get a chance. That's the result of his efforts. :)

Honestly, if he is the reason behind the G6 interior I think less of him!

Pontiac left NASCAR for one reason. GM neded all of its resources behind one body in order to Toyota. Unfortunately, they are coming. I would expect a Camry on the track by 2007.

All of its resources WERE behind one body... Its just some of those bodies had different headlight stickers...

I also remember reading that Lutz did that to try and change the "me too" culture at GM.
As for Pontiac, I really can't understand why anyone would mourn its change in styling direction. Besides the last Grand Prix, what car would anyone here define as good-looking? The Firebird? It had a thumping V8 to make up for its sins, but it defined overwrought styling. The rest were just a joke. Grand Am? Aztec? Bonneville? Sunfire? By the end of the decade, Pontiac styling had become a cliched metaphor for "tacky" in auto mags. Furthermore, it was NOT "masculine." Dodge styling is masculine. Pontiac styling was butch.

In fact, I think one of the reasons that the GTO is so bland is that Pontiac's styling image was horrible, and people at GM knew anything they did to the exterior might be badly received.

Also, I really don't see how the G6 styling is "sissy." It's gender neutral if you ask me. More importantly, it looks very good. I don't think anyone would argue with me if I said that it's the nicest looking vehicle in the Pontiac showroom right now. Granted, it's not really competing with much, but it still proves a point.

Also, Pontiac is advertising to men. Besides the Speed TV ads in all the auto mags thi month, they have a really creative promotion in Maxim. How come no one has mentioned that? Don't everybody start pretending that you don't look at Maxim magazines...

The Grand Am was 10x better looking than the G6...
Some ppl LIKE body cladding. Overwrought looks, and boy racer styling...
Pontiac axing the Montana is a good decision. Pontiac shouldn't have a Sunfire either or a cobalt copy.

and I liked the bonnie, just should have had awd and it was far too expensive.

and "Gender Nuetral" is Saturn's thing, not Pontiacs

p.s. anyone have grand am sedan sales figures vs g6? just curious

Honestly, if he is the reason behind the G6 interior I think less of him!

Why? :confused:

The Grand Am was 10x better looking than the G6...
Some ppl LIKE body cladding. Overwrought looks, and boy racer styling...
Pontiac axing the Montana is a good decision. Pontiac shouldn't have a Sunfire either or a cobalt copy.

and I liked the bonnie, just should have had awd and it was far too expensive.

and "Gender Nuetral" is Saturn's thing, not Pontiacs

p.s. anyone have grand am sedan sales figures vs g6? just curious

Grand Am had more personality than the G6 so I'll give you that.


The Bonneville is the most misguided car I have ever seen. I also liked the Bonneville.... till I drove one. It ranks as one of the worse cars I've ever driven. On top of that, I have no clue to who it's marketed to, and it makes Pontiac's "we build excitement" boast a fraud. Then the final insult is the GXP Bonneville, which should be the mainline Bonneville, is priced in the stratosphere. No Bonne is worth a $5,000 premium sticker over the GTO... especially if it's goning to get whipped by an assortment of cars.

As for GA sales, I believe the G6 sedan is selling about on par or slightly below with final year GA sedans. Considering the G6 is still new & slightly less incentive intense and slightly more expensive, that's not too shabby.

Go to media.gm.com and you can check sales figures yourself. ;)

Go look at the interior of the 2006 Chevy Impala when you get a chance. That's the result of his efforts. :)i have and they are gross.

The Grand Am was 10x better looking than the G6...
Some ppl LIKE body cladding. Overwrought looks, and boy racer styling...


I am definitely not a fan and prefer the GTO over the late TransAms. I think Pontiac hired a designer from Star Trek the last few years. Look much better now.


Pontiac axing the Montana is a good decision. Pontiac shouldn't have a Sunfire either or a cobalt copy.

and I liked the bonnie, just should have had awd and it was far too expensive.


Agree here.



and "Gender Nuetral" is Saturn's thing, not Pontiacs


Who know's where Saturn's going. I thought they were the "affordable" car.

Personally, I love what is happening with styling at pontiac. I hated the cheap body cladding they had on some of their cars. I hated the look of the latest grand am and sunfire, and of course, the aztek. The grand prix (and the departed firebird) were the only cars that I enjoyed looking at over the past few years.
I like the look of the g6, the pursuit looks like a mini-g6, the solstice is drop-dead gorgeous. The newer grand prix still looks great. The torrent is a million times better than the aztek. Although I find the gto a bit plain, it is still attractive. There's not an ugly duckling in the bunch anymore, where there used to be many.
I say :thumb: to Bob Lutz and anyone else that brought about these changes.

PS what's wrong with appearing on Oprah? Any company in the world would kill for that kind of exposure. It is possible (and smart) to make cars that both men and women like (mustang for example).

My GF loves the new G6 looks (at least from outside, she hasnt seen inside). The only big problem with the G6 is that it doesnt have the big "H" in front.

Stupid Honda!

G6 looks worlds better, nicer and cleaner then the GA. Very swoopy looks like a coupe, and is, IMO one of the most attractive mid sized sedans out there.
I was never a big fan of the body cladding, and even to a certain extent I never really liked the last of the TA's because there was just way way way way way too many scoops and pockets and lord knows what else, and they did nothing!!
I like where Pontiac is headed in design. I dont like the idea of teh SV6 minivan or the Torrent, especialy now that P-B-GMC are just about one divisoin. Give the Torrent to GMC, and scrap the SV6. Use the room and extra cash for a RWD/AWD V6/V8 Pontiac sedan, and also have a little hatchback Delta car to battle the compacts out there.
Only problem I see is the new direction of Saturn. It seems to be jumping up the Sloan ladder to right below Caddy. If thats the case, the reason to have both Buick AND Pontiac quickly disolve IMO.

Honestly, if he is the reason behind the G6 interior I think less of him!

I thought he wasn't behind the G6 :think: maybe just material quality, not design.

I thought he wasn't behind the G6 :think: maybe just material quality, not design.
That is what I read.