C&D drives new stang GT500 12.5@116

***THIS IS THE SHOW CAR. NOT PRODUCTION***

330 ci displacement
8.4:1 compression ratio
eaton R122 roots type supercharger
10 psi max boost pressure
450 lb.ft torque
6000 rpm redline
16 gallon fuel capacity
top speed of 160 mph
0-60 mph in 4 seconds flat
quarter mile 12.5 seconds @ 116 mph
mpg - 13 city/ 21 highway
curb weight - 3850lbs


http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=25892

I think that they're also reporting 3,850 lbs.

I think that they're also reporting 3,850 lbs.


Really? 3850 with only 475hp and still pulling a12.5? Must be pretty good at planting the power in spite of the undersized tires!

Say "Hello" to major Gas Guzzler Tax. And those folks better keep a close eye on the gas gauge. 13 mpg and 16 gallon tank doesn't allow much room for error.........

Say "Hello" to major Gas Guzzler Tax. And those folks better keep a close eye on the gas gauge. 13 mpg and 16 gallon tank doesn't allow much room for error.........


Heh, some people on this board get less gas milage then that on their modded fbody. I dont see the GT500 being a daily driver anyway. More of a weekend fun car.

I dont think that people who buy the GT500 will be buying it to save on gas :)

Are there any known changes between the show car and production car?

Not saying that. It's just that when the GTO came out, everyone bashed it for being an "overweight pig" and having to shell out gas guzzler tax. Now here's a Mustang that is heavier and gets worse gas mileage, yet everyone praises it. I guess it's just that "gotta have it" factor again... ;)

Not saying that. It's just that when the GTO came out, everyone bashed it for being an "overweight pig" and having to shell out gas guzzler tax. Now here's a Mustang that is heavier and gets worse gas mileage, yet everyone praises it. I guess it's just that "gotta have it" factor again... ;)

But the GTO isn't trapping 116 with crappy magazine drivers either ;)

Throw 10psi of boost on it and I bet it will do better... ;)

Throw 10psi of boost on it and I bet it will do better... ;)


Unless I read it wrong its already running 10psi.

(Clarification: GTO ;))

Impressive...thats for sure 11's w/ a good driver

Eventually we will be able to lay to rest the notion that this new Mustang will take down the new Z06, stock vs. stock. :)

Well, if that is close to the production performance, than that is not quite as fast as people expected.

Impressive. Especially when you take into consideration the showcars 255 tires. With stickier 315's, it would probably hook up better and post low 12's.

It is said that the production car will be 95% identical to the showcar. I believe a tire change (to a wider set) is one of the planned changes.

Overall, it should have solid low 12 second potential with the 4.0 second 0-60 and 116mph traps.

Weight is disconcerning, but lets hope the production version will be a 100-200 lbs less. I believe Tang (sp??) projected weight figures in the 3,6XXlb range. @ 3600, It's still no light-weight, but it sure beats 3850lbs. That's too much heft. What happened to all the talks of going away from raw hp to lessened weight with better suspension/brakes? Now i know the new platform is heavier than the old sn95 it is replacing, and the iron-blocked 5.4 and Twin screw blower don't make things any easier, but 3,850lbs is too much.

But the GTO isn't trapping 116 with crappy magazine drivers either ;)

Neither is a production GT500. Remember, this car is still over a year away from actually being built. I'm guessing by the time it makes the assembly line, it will be rated at 500 hp. And, at $40,000, will have twice the profit (for Ford) of a Mustang GT. Please don't get me wrong, I think this car looks terrific. Given the chance, I wouldn't change a single thing about it. I can't say that about my GTO.

Weight is disconcerning, but lets hope the production version will be a 100-200 lbs less.

Actually I would think a showcar would weigh less than the production car. Why would you save the weight-lowering measures for the production piece? Show cars generally don't include all the necessary safety gizmos and crash reinforcements that would be on production cars. :confused:

4000lbs ;)

Eventually we will be able to lay to rest the notion that this new Mustang will take down the new Z06, stock vs. stock. :)


Don't recall anyone ever claiming that.

What I've said is the GT500 will smoke a C6 and is within $500(pulley/tune) of anything the new Z06 can dish out.

Apparently, the autoshow car is very heavy, has a roots blower(instead of the twin screw), and skinny tires. At least 2 of these can easily change for the better in the final version.

And it's looking more and more like my prediction of low 12s@119-120 is going to be reality next summer.

Actually, I have wondered why GM decided to go with the LS7 engine instead of a Blown LS2. I imagine the LS2 with a Blower could put out the LS7 numbers. Why build a handmade engine at an extrodinary cost when you could upgrade a few parts and put a blower on it for much cheaper?

Was reading on svtperformance that they said it might not get the twin screw unit because Ford couldn't get their hands on enough of the twin screw blower. Not sure how true that is but that's a kick to the groin if it's true. Be nice if they would drop the price some if they aren't going to the twin screw units.

Apparently, the autoshow car is very heavy, has a roots blower(instead of the twin screw), and skinny tires. At least 2 of these can easily change for the better in the final version.

And it's looking more and more like my prediction of low 12s@119-120 is going to be reality next summer.

I thought the showcar had a twin screw??? atleast judging from the pics i've seen.

Actually, I have wondered why GM decided to go with the LS7 engine instead of a Blown LS2. I imagine the LS2 with a Blower could put out the LS7 numbers. Why build a handmade engine at an extrodinary cost when you could upgrade a few parts and put a blower on it for much cheaper?

Maybe GM is saving the blower to be put on the LS7 :D

Ohhh how sweet it would be...

I thought the showcar had a twin screw??? atleast judging from the pics i've seen.


Too much uncertainty on who actually knows WTF they're talking about. Apparently only the tech who actually BOLTED the damn blower on knows for sure. :p

Actually I would think a showcar would weigh less than the production car. Why would you save the weight-lowering measures for the production piece? Show cars generally don't include all the necessary safety gizmos and crash reinforcements that would be on production cars. :confused:

True, but on the other hand they also have more flashy/larger pieces like body panels, larger chrome wheels, non-production interior bits/panels, and a slew of electronics gizmos and such tech that aren't production intent. They tend to be loaded in general.

But from the looks of it, the GT500 showcar appears to be production ready or near production ready. According to Ford, everything but 5% of the car will stay the same. I'm assuming they've got the crash reinforcements and such in place already.

In the end, we probably won't see much of a weight difference.

The designations "GT500" and "C6 Z06" should not be said in the same sentence, unless you're stating that they shouldnt be in the same sentence.

Two separate classes, two separate buyers, two separate missions.

The designations "GT500" and "C6 Z06" should not be said in the same sentence, unless you're stating that they shouldnt be in the same sentence.

Two separate classes, two separate buyers, two separate missions.


That's funny... because I see Z06 all the time in the same sentence with Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Murcielago, and Ford GT.

That's funny... because I see Z06 all the time in the same sentence with Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Murcielago, and Ford GT.

The only one I ahve ever seen in the ame sentence is "ZO6" and "Ford GT" and rightly so.

That's funny... because I see Z06 all the time in the same sentence with Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Murcielago, and Ford GT.

In my post?

The only one I ahve ever seen in the ame sentence is "ZO6" and "Ford GT" and rightly so.


Well lessee.

GT500 pre-production cluge - 12.5@116
production Z06 - 12flat@124
GT - 11.2@131

Yeah.

Well lessee.

GT500 pre-production cluge - 12.5@116
production Z06 - 12flat@124
GT - 11.2@131

Yeah.

I just saw a article where the GT ran a 12.xx at no where near 131 so that is not quite so cut and dry. If I remember correctly, you are stating the C&D numbers and if I also remember correctly, that was not just some random GT, it was strait from Ford well before they were to go on sale.

Wait a few more months when you see a lot more tests from the ZO6 and then we can pick the bests ones.

The only one I ahve ever seen in the ame sentence is "ZO6" and "Ford GT" and rightly so.

Even those are technically in a different class though you really couldn't tell performance wise.

Even those are technically in a different class though you really couldn't tell performance wise.
And a different tax bracket for sure.

My point is that no one is going to cross shop an Enzo/Murcielago with a Ford GT/ C6 ZO6 even with taking away performance from the equation. This topic has been discussed many times on here.

By the way, who are these people that mentioned an Enzo and Murcielago with a ZO6, because I have never seen that anywhere?

I just got my C&D in the mail and read the article. From the looks of it, all the figures are just projections of what they (MT) think the car will run/perform. It isn't/wasn't an actual test. Atleast that's what i got from it.

Other projections they made.

*Skid in the 0.91-0.94 range
*70mph-0mph braking under 170'
*price point: somewhere between 36,000 and 39,000. Potential price point offered by SVT.
*Output: somewhere between 450hp and 500hp and the same for tq. Like pricing, SVT was vague about this too.

Basically, the whole article was estimate-based.

Other bits of info.
*twin screw Lysholm dropped for Eaton R122 roots due to availability as previously mentioned.
* The GT500 is getting extensive wind-tunnel testing for right balance of downforce and aero drag.
*Tires and such seem to have been upgraded as the GT500 wore 255/45/18 and 285/40/18 on this specific showcar/mule. A departure from the 255/19's on the showcar earlier this year. Simply put, the 255 wouldn't hook.

It would be more than a few upgrade parts for a supercharger.. It needs to be completely reliable, on and off the track too. GM already has some good data/experience with the C5R with a 427 engine. Plus the SC engine will stil be a specialty 500 hp engine..


427 is also smaller.. and lighter..and doesn't need to bother with a belt and SC to break.. cause there is not SC, intercooler, belt, pullies etc to package in.

So I think GM made the right choice.. I really doubt a SC engine of that performance would be any cheaper in the end..


Anyways, about the Mustang... sounds like for raw magazine stats, it'll give a C6 a fight.


Actually, I have wondered why GM decided to go with the LS7 engine instead of a Blown LS2. I imagine the LS2 with a Blower could put out the LS7 numbers. Why build a handmade engine at an extrodinary cost when you could upgrade a few parts and put a blower on it for much cheaper?

Don't recall anyone ever claiming that.

What I've said is the GT500 will smoke a C6 and is within $500(pulley/tune) of anything the new Z06 can dish out.
A $500(pulley/tune) no longer makes it stock for stock.

Well lessee.

GT500 pre-production cluge - 12.5@116
production Z06 - 12flat@124
GT - 11.2@131

Yeah.

Ahem, that Z06 time was from one single pass made at a GM event where the driver admittedly granny-shifted down the quarter. I'm waiting for the real good traps, the ones close to/over 130 MPH.

As far as the LS7 vs. blown LS2, I'd say there's two motivations to go with the LS7. First of all, you don't just slap a supercharger on an otherwise unmodified engine and let 'er rip, at least not at any decent boost level. The cost of forged internals combined with the cost of the blower for each car is most likely more than the LS7...even with all the trick parts in the LS7.

Second of all, the time is right to reintroduce 427 into Corvette. :cool: Some of it is of course marketing.

A $500(pulley/tune) no longer makes it stock for stock.

Very true, but that's the beauty of F/I. Cheap mods can = big impressive gains.

Anyone besides me wishing Ford would ditch these silly blowers all together and go twin-turbo?? *drool*. Regarding parastitic drag, i remember reading somewhere that the Ford GT's 5.4 at redline uses up over 100hp just to run the blower. A set of twins would minimize that. And screw cost. Why worry about cost on a 150k car? And they could easily tack on another 2 grand onto the GT500 without too much fuss from the enthusiasts given the increased power.

Far from a complaint because even the blown version is VERY potent, but something i'd love to see. Guess there's always the aftermarket for that:D.

Ahem, that Z06 time was from one single pass made at a GM event where the driver admittedly granny-shifted down the quarter. I'm waiting for the real good traps, the ones close to/over 130 MPH.

As far as the LS7 vs. blown LS2, I'd say there's two motivations to go with the LS7. First of all, you don't just slap a supercharger on an otherwise unmodified engine and let 'er rip, at least not at any decent boost level. The cost of forged internals combined with the cost of the blower for each car is most likely more than the LS7...even with all the trick parts in the LS7.


I think the z06 has solid mid 11 second potential.

You're right about cost. You don't just slap a blower on, you rework the whole engine to handle the boost. Just look at the Ford versions. Yeah, they're multi-cam engines, but they come at a hefty cost in terms of $$$ and weight/fuel economy.

Both have their pluses, and both (ls7 and s/c'd Ls2) would be cool in a high-end camaro (one can dream).

Well to point out the same basic thing Gold_Rush stated (I got my C & D in the mail today), the numbers printed WERE NOT TEST NUMBERS. They were GUESTIMATES on how the PRODUCTION car will run and weigh based off what SVT told them (in fact SVT said 0-60 in less then 4.5 so C&D estimated 4.0). There were no actual tests done on the car.

Pretty sweet car, should be interesting to see how the production car should rip.

As for anyone stating the Z06 running 12 flat b/c of one incidence, I seem to remember the Ford boys taking a fit when the video of a Mustang GT surfaced pre-release running around a 14.3 ;). Let's wait till some actual test numbers actually arise.

Chris

Not to mention the Z06 with 100 less HP and more weight has run run 11's...so I would assume the new one would be faster.

The GT500 seems to be pretty sweet and I would estimate it will be a challenger stock for stock of an 04 Z06.

Well to point out the same basic thing Gold_Rush stated (I got my C & D in the mail today), the numbers printed WERE NOT TEST NUMBERS. They were GUESTIMATES on how the PRODUCTION car will run and weigh based off what SVT told them (in fact SVT said 0-60 in less then 4.5 so C&D estimated 4.0). There were no actual tests done on the car.

Pretty sweet car, should be interesting to see how the production car should rip.

As for anyone stating the Z06 running 12 flat b/c of one incidence, I seem to remember the Ford boys taking a fit when the video of a Mustang GT surfaced pre-release running around a 14.3 ;). Let's wait till some actual test numbers actually arise.

Chris

Do you live down the street from me?? :confused: I see a QSM GTO down the road from me (and you being from Neshanic and all)

re: supercharged 7L Corvette. Remember the "Blue Devil" rumors? :D

And am I the only one hoping that a lower output 7L Gen4 motor will be produced for other vehicles? Take away the 7000rpm redline and titanium parts and you could easily have a 450hp NA truck or RWD performance coupe or sedan motor option :D :D :cool: A 7L SSR or Silverado SS or Trailblazer SS would be very fun.

A quick question on the GT-500:

Any mention of how many will likely be made?

Ford has an irritating history of creations such as the "Cobra-R" with ultra-low productions numbers, thus turning all the cars into locked-away garage-queens.

Volume, VOLUME! :)

A quick question on the GT-500:

Any mention of how many will likely be made?

Ford has an irritating history of creations such as the "Cobra-R" with ultra-low productions numbers, thus turning all the cars into locked-away garage-queens.

Volume, VOLUME! :)

I think Ford said they'll do 7,500 the first year, and they'll build as many as ordered/needed the following years.

I think Ford said they'll do 7,500 the first year, and they'll build as many as ordered/needed the following years.

Ahhh! That would be nice!

I hate to see performance combos limited in an irritating effort to artifically inflate value! Go go go! Make more! Make all you can sell! :)

Not to mention the Z06 with 100 less HP and more weight has run run 11's...so I would assume the new one would be faster.

The GT500 seems to be pretty sweet and I would estimate it will be a challenger stock for stock of an 04 Z06.



Do you live down the street from me?? :confused: I see a QSM GTO down the road from me (and you being from Neshanic and all)

I just might. Where do you live in Hillsborough? I got through there a lot mostly in the GTO, sometimes in the WS6. You'll know it's my GTO (now) since I have an unpainted (black primer) '05 scooped hood on it plus the recessed autox grills. There's another guy who lives over in Hillsborough as well with a QSM '04 with the stock hood (no scoops), so it could be him if it's not me.

Chris

I remember stating a while ago that the video of those idiots who took the C6 Z06 to the dragstrip would come back to haunt us. Now it's being quoted as the perfomance of the new Z06 just like I thought, when it's not.

I don't think that's even close to the potential of the C6 Z06, but who knows, lets wait to see what some mags get.
Dan

Damn..........that's a fine looking and hopefully driving car.

Can't wait to see one.

The 400hp GTO and C6 6-speeds are getting 28/29 mpg highway, which is awesome for that kind of performance and unmatched in the world.

The C6 Z06 is running 0 to 60 in 3 and 1/2 seconds according to GM, that should put it well into the 11s in the quarter.

As has been pointed out, the stats in that article are estimated, and not instrumented testing.
Might be conservative, might not.
Interestingly, C&D went 12.8@110mph in an '03 Cobra in instrumented testing.
As long as we're magazine racing, notice that is a 6 mph difference in trap speed.
S.

Very true, but that's the beauty of F/I. Cheap mods can = big impressive gains.

Anyone besides me wishing Ford would ditch these silly blowers all together and go twin-turbo?? *drool*. Regarding parastitic drag, i remember reading somewhere that the Ford GT's 5.4 at redline uses up over 100hp just to run the blower. A set of twins would minimize that. And screw cost. Why worry about cost on a 150k car? And they could easily tack on another 2 grand onto the GT500 without too much fuss from the enthusiasts given the increased power.

Far from a complaint because even the blown version is VERY potent, but something i'd love to see. Guess there's always the aftermarket for that:D.
After reading up on what turbos can do...no sir you aren't the only one.
In all honesty...I kind of expect a certain brand with a Ram for a logo to be the first to do that if it gets done at all.
Can you imagine a turboed 6.1 liter V8 tucked into say....a Viper and a price drop of 10k bucks? :dead:

Am I the only one who's not particularly impressed?

I mean, I'm not calling 12.5@116 slow or anything, but this is a car that costs almost as much as a base 2005 Corvette and seems to be about as fast (maybe a bit faster once it gets new rubber), but it weighs about 700 pounds more (!!) and has a solid rear axle?

The Vette might be a little slower in the 1/4 mile (and considering that we're comparing a naturally aspirated 16-valve pushrod V8 with a supercharged 32-valve DOHC V8 which is slightly detuned out of a $200,000 supercar), I find that to be pretty good) but it would murder this 3850lb pig on a road course, and I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a $40,000 solid-rear-axle car to go in a straight line.

Well then, I guess you won't be buying one, will you??

I'm sure there are 7500 people out there, who will be tickled silly to get theirs.

The point of a limited production car, is that it will not be available.......... nor will it appeal, to everyone.

500hp for under $40K............... sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Ok, there is a diffrence between a sports car and a pony/muscle car. Yes, they are both fast and this one is just as expensive. They appeal to diffrent people for diffrent reasons.

Well lessee.

GT500 pre-production cluge - 12.5@116
production Z06 - 12flat@124
GT - 11.2@131

Yeah.

How exactly do you know what a production z06 will run?
Thanks for the irrelevant insight.

The best way to know what both cars will do, is to <gasp>, wait for them to actually come out.

How exactly do you know what a production z06 will run?
Thanks for the irrelevant insight.

The best way to know what both cars will do, is to <gasp>, wait for them to actually come out.


What irrelevant is your reading ability.

Some chevy fanboy, similar to yourself, claimed a Z06 will waste the GT500 and run nose to nose with Ford's exotic GT.

I just posted some available data to show ridiculous that idea is. :cry:

What irrelevant is your reading ability.

Some chevy fanboy, similar to yourself, claimed a Z06 will waste the GT500 and run nose to nose with Ford's exotic GT.

I just posted some available data to show ridiculous that idea is. :cry:


What is ridiculous is that you put "production" next to the alphanumeric string "z06."

Please, find me a production model, I would love to see it.


Also, I am no chevy fanboy, but I suppose that was just another one of your brilliant assumptions.