2005 Grand Prix GXP = One Fun Ride

Last weekend, I did have an opportunity to drive our one and only '05 GP GXP. I drove it for about 8 miles, and did not drive the hell out of it because, well, it isn't mine and it won't be. But I needed some seat time to give camaroz28.com members an accurate portrayal of this fine automobile :D

Exterior:
Looks good. The nose is better in person than in the pics. It is a definite improvement. You only notice the larger front tires if you stare at them, and then stare directly at the rears. The wheels are sweet...bold and aggressive without going over the top. The red calipers look good, as well as the cross drilled rotors. The dual-dual rear tips have a Borla-like look to them. Overall, a significant improvement with such subtle changes. Oh yeah...fender grilles look sweet, too.

Interior:
Gague cluster is WAY better than the ugly font in normal GPs. Engine-turned aluminum background is neat, too. G meter? I can't work it, so whatever :D The leather/suede seats are great...comfy, grippy and look beautiful.

Engine:
When I walked up to the car for the first time, I hit the remote start to hear the burble on start-up. Oh my...this thing sounds like its got soul. A muffled soul, for sure...but this LS4 has a distinctly deeper and better tone than any stock LS1 F bod. Pop the hood, and its crammed in there, but it works...

The Drive:
Like I said, I didn't drive this thing at 10/10ths or anything near that, but I drove it enough to get some good observations. The stiff ride people sometimes complain of in the Comp G is conspicuous by its absence. You EXPECT a hard ride based on the 18s and previous Comp G experience, but the ride with the Bilsteins is really quite nice. Brake feel and power is EXCELLENT with the cross-drilled...the pedal feels a little scratchy, but very positive. Turn in is crisp. Sure, it leans a little bit, but this is still a 3,600 lb FWD 4 door. I thought the handling was excellent.

So the big question of the day is...torque steer????

I normally never, EVER floor a new car. Personally, even though people do it all the time on test drives, I'm anal when it comes to breaking in my own personal cars, and have a personal feeling against mischief behind the wheel of something not my own. But, I have a confession to make. I've driven new Firehawks. New GTOs. Never, ever floored them. But this car? It begged me. It WANTED to be run once. And I admit...curiosity killed me. The result????

Adrenaline. This thing pulls HARD. Upshifts are crisp and perfectly executed at 6k. I floored it once, and yes, there is a little dancing of the wheel in your hand, but its far from objectionable or dangerous. Considering what you're driving, I think it is more than tolerable. I admit it...I should not have done that. But you gentlemen needed to know...

On a scale of 1 to 10? I give it an 8.5. The chassis is there. The engine is there. Torque steer, indeed, is there. What keeps it from a perfect 10? Style. I love the GXP changes, but this car still needs a new skin and a new dashboard, IMO. However, this car does something for me in a way the GTO never has, to be honest. The GXP, IMO, is pure to its mission. Its a bad ass sedan that doesn't pull punches or apologize for what it is. Its imperfect, and doesn't care. The car has soul to it. A GTO, to me, is a great drive but puts me to sleep somehow. I'm not saying the GXP is a better car than a GTO...its not.

But to me, its more true to its mission. And I must admit, the car impressed me significantly more than I thought. Now, for $3k or so less I REALLY want my MC SS

Awesome Review! I can't wait to see these things on the road. Thanks.

Last weekend, I did have an opportunity to drive our one and only '05 GP GXP. I drove it for about 8 miles, and did not drive the hell out of it because, well, it isn't mine and it won't be. But I needed some seat time to give camaroz28.com members an accurate portrayal of this fine automobile :D

" I drove it for about 8 miles, and did not drive the hell out of it because, well, it isn't mine and it won't be."

That's not "an accurate portrayal."



Exterior:
Looks good. The nose is better in person than in the pics. It is a definite improvement. You only notice the larger front tires if you stare at them, and then stare directly at the rears. The wheels are sweet...bold and aggressive without going over the top. The red calipers look good, as well as the cross drilled rotors. The dual-dual rear tips have a Borla-like look to them. Overall, a significant improvement with such subtle changes. Oh yeah...fender grilles look sweet, too.

It still looks dated to me.


Interior:
Gague cluster is WAY better than the ugly font in normal GPs. Engine-turned aluminum background is neat, too. G meter? I can't work it, so whatever :D The leather/suede seats are great...comfy, grippy and look beautiful.

It's good to know that even a Pontiac salesman can't figure out how to operate a wortless "gizmo" like a G meter.:lol:

Anyway, the interior of the GXP remains just as cramped and dated as any Grand Prix.


Engine:
When I walked up to the car for the first time, I hit the remote start to hear the burble on start-up. Oh my...this thing sounds like its got soul. A muffled soul, for sure...but this LS4 has a distinctly deeper and better tone than any stock LS1 F bod. Pop the hood, and its crammed in there, but it works...

I'm glad that the GXP sounds good. After all, if you can't look good or feel good, you might as well sound good.



The Drive:
Like I said, I didn't drive this thing at 10/10ths or anything near that, but I drove it enough to get some good observations. The stiff ride people sometimes complain of in the Comp G is conspicuous by its absence. You EXPECT a hard ride based on the 18s and previous Comp G experience, but the ride with the Bilsteins is really quite nice. Brake feel and power is EXCELLENT with the cross-drilled...the pedal feels a little scratchy, but very positive. Turn in is crisp. Sure, it leans a little bit, but this is still a 3,600 lb FWD 4 door. I thought the handling was excellent.

Yawn.



So the big question of the day is...torque steer????

I normally never, EVER floor a new car. Personally, even though people do it all the time on test drives, I'm anal when it comes to breaking in my own personal cars, and have a personal feeling against mischief behind the wheel of something not my own. But, I have a confession to make. I've driven new Firehawks. New GTOs. Never, ever floored them. But this car? It begged me. It WANTED to be run once. And I admit...curiosity killed me. The result????

Adrenaline. This thing pulls HARD. Upshifts are crisp and perfectly executed at 6k. I floored it once, and yes, there is a little dancing of the wheel in your hand, but its far from objectionable or dangerous. Considering what you're driving, I think it is more than tolerable. I admit it...I should not have done that. But you gentlemen needed to know...

You've never "floored" a Firehawk or a GTO?:lol:

I should have taken you along on my GTO "road test.":lol:




On a scale of 1 to 10? I give it an 8.5. The chassis is there. The engine is there. Torque steer, indeed, is there. What keeps it from a perfect 10? Style. I love the GXP changes, but this car still needs a new skin and a new dashboard, IMO. However, this car does something for me in a way the GTO never has, to be honest. The GXP, IMO, is pure to its mission. Its a bad ass sedan that doesn't pull punches or apologize for what it is. Its imperfect, and doesn't care. The car has soul to it. A GTO, to me, is a great drive but puts me to sleep somehow. I'm not saying the GXP is a better car than a GTO...its not.

But to me, its more true to its mission. And I must admit, the car impressed me significantly more than I thought. Now, for $3k or so less I REALLY want my MC SS

Believe me when I say that a Dodge Charger R/T will have more "soul" than the Pontiac Grand Prix GXP - unless your definition of "soul" has something to do with torque steer.

My dealer of choice got their second one in. If it ever stops raining here and they get it out of the showroom before it sells, my guy there, the fleet manager will be calling me to so we can take if for a ride. I'm quite looking forward to that.

On Monday I should be getting a Canyon as a courtesy vehicle. I'm interested in some first hand experience with the I5 since there is such a wide range of opinion on it.

torque steer.[/B]

I've driven both R/T and GXP....both have soul.

red,
Just because you enjoy driving like a retard in something that isn't yours doesn't mean you're right. Haven't you and I and everyone else already been through this? Your track record test driving cars is not impressive, to say the least. Does it make you feel like more of a man to beat the hell out of a brand new car you have no intention of buying? Are you compensating for some deficiency? Oh wait, you drive an Armada...I guess you are.

As for the G Meter, I didn't bother to open the owners manual and have a look. I don't care. If that bothers you, good :D

As for torque steer, I'll take that over a fishtailing Charger this winter any day, thanks very much. Good to see you're flaming still has no impact on, well, anyone's opinion :D

I've driven both R/T and GXP....both have soul.

THANK YOU :bow:

anyway, you may not have to worry too much about your "spirited" 8 mile run with a sprint to 6K...There's an alternative train of thought about how to break-in new engines and it differs to the traditional method in almost all owner's manual, granted (according to the article) that engine has less than 20miles. you may just have done the new owner a favor.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

caveat...not my opinion 'cause I have never done this; Simply relaying what I found on the net.

I appreciate the link...I'll have a look later. I still don't like the idea of ragging on something new, but one run to 6k never hurt anything I don't think!!!

And red, one other side note...torque steer is annoying, yes. But it isn't always there unless you drive like an ass. Driving in inclement weather with RWD? Many days out of the year, that issue is ALWAYS there...I'dencounter fishtailing up a hill with a Charger in the winter far more than torque steer during ownership of a GXP, I assure you.

Thanks for the review!!! :thumb: Good to see Pontiac added more than just a bigger engine to the GTP. Sounds like a nice package (for a FWD ;) )

I appreciate the link...I'll have a look later. I still don't like the idea of ragging on something new, but one run to 6k never hurt anything I don't think!!!

Did you take the plant tour in Bowling Green?

If it hurts every new 'vette out there is "damaged" goods. :D

red,
Just because you enjoy driving like a retard in something that isn't yours doesn't mean you're right. Haven't you and I and everyone else already been through this? Your track record test driving cars is not impressive, to say the least. Does it make you feel like more of a man to beat the hell out of a brand new car you have no intention of buying? Are you compensating for some deficiency? Oh wait, you drive an Armada...I guess you are.

There can't be too much wrong with my "track record test driving cars." After all, I ended up buying two vehicles that were the quickest accelerating in their respective classes. I don't "spare the horses," and I'm not ashamed to admit it.



As for the G Meter, I didn't bother to open the owners manual and have a look. I don't care. If that bothers you, good :D

Like I said...even a Pontiac salesman couldn't figure out the G Meter.:lol:


As for torque steer, I'll take that over a fishtailing Charger this winter any day, thanks very much. Good to see you're flaming still has no impact on, well, anyone's opinion :D

I don't think that the Charger's stability control system will allow very much "fishtailing."

I don't think that the Charger's stability control system will allow very much "fishtailing."

On the LX cars, torque management continues, even if you turn the TC off.

On the Charger R/T however, it feels as if it has less of that than Magnum or 300.

When I turned off the TC control on the Charger I drove, you could very easily induce fishtailing....glorious fishtailing. :cool:

Oh I love fishtailing when I want it...hate it when I don't :D

red,
Do you have reading comprehension difficulties? I didn't TRY to use it. Can I be any clearer for you? Do you merely pretend to have such a low level of comprehension, or does it come naturally for you? Bottoming out cars on test drives (as you have bragged in previous posts) is not a lack of "sparing the horses." Its called being an ass. Period. As for stability control, you yourself called it a "band aid" at one point...I think I'll search your past posts when I have nothing better to do. And that's what it is...an electronic band aid.

Oh I love fishtailing when I want it...hate it when I don't :D

red,
Do you have reading comprehension difficulties? I didn't TRY to use it. Can I be any clearer for you? Do you merely pretend to have such a low level of comprehension, or does it come naturally for you? Bottoming out cars on test drives (as you have bragged in previous posts) is not a lack of "sparing the horses." Its called being an ass. Period. As for stability control, you yourself called it a "band aid" at one point...I think I'll search your past posts when I have nothing better to do. And that's what it is...an electronic band aid.


Let's face it... rezed is lying about test driving all these cars.

First of all, he has supposedly test driven every car and truck and SUV ever made... riiiiiiight.

Second of all, after a few of his "beating the hell out of the car on the test drive" moves, no dealer is going to let him come back and test drive again... so at this point, he'd be driving 200 miles one-way to test drive a car. :lol:

Jason,

Check into (and test drive, of course) the MC V8 before you buy it. I think it will not get all the same suspension tuning (and cross drilled brakes, etc.) that the GXP has.

Personally, I think my preferences would be Impala SS, followed closely by the GXP, followed by the MC. But the brakes and suspension tuning and sportier looks of the GXP might put it ahead.

I've also driven one, though unfortunately it was in the rain. I didn't get to flog it much at all. It is a sweet car, I agree. If it had a six speed auto (not to mention a six speed manual) instead of the 4 speed, it would kick serious butt. I'd also love it if it were RWD. But if that is the most important thing, I could walk over and pick up a GTO instead.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the car.

Manufacturers have actually become quite adept at fixing torque steer without overly compensating by limiting engine output. The SRT-4 comes to mind quickly. Since our buddy redzed has already driven the GXP :lol: and says there was massive torque steer :lol: I'll take his word for it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's face it... rezed is lying about test driving all these cars.

First of all, he has supposedly test driven every car and truck and SUV ever made... riiiiiiight.

Second of all, after a few of his "beating the hell out of the car on the test drive" moves, no dealer is going to let him come back and test drive again... so at this point, he'd be driving 200 miles one-way to test drive a car. :lol:

red is just pissed that Nissan is comming up short in all the recent surveys and the post about the Armada being a rolling POS.

I've checked out both the Charger R/T and GXP as well. Both are nice cars, but surprisingly I think that I actually liked the GXP better.To me, the GXP just has more of a bad boy muscle car bravado going on, even with front wheel drive. The R/T felt great, but it just didn't have the same "personality" imo. It felt more mechanical and machine like to me. Anways, I don't really think you can go wrong with either one. They are both a bunch of fun.


-Mike

I just read a short review in Autoweek about the GXP. I was really surprised, they really liked the car. I figured they would had trashed it as a weak attemp to boost intersted in a mediocre car...or something like that.

Personally, I think my preferences would be Impala SS, followed closely by the GXP, followed by the MC. But the brakes and suspension tuning and sportier looks of the GXP might put it ahead.



Why the Impala over the MC? Just curious.

Joe,
I like the MC SS over the GXP because a) I assume the price will be cheaper, and the MC alone is a major stretch for me b) I need 2 doors, not 4! c) I like the dash layout of the MC better, and look forward to the '06 upgrades d) there has always been something sinister about a black, V8 MC SS. I loved the '80s ones, and now I can have a new one! Impala? Not enough attitude for me...GP beats it on the attitude front.

I agree, the GXP is/will be a better car. But it will be pricier, I do not care for the style as much, has 2 too many doors, and I can upgrade the MC anyway. Further, I'm not crazy about the fatter front tires. I can't rotate them, and with a 140 treadwear on those front tires, they'll be toast in less than 20k, I'd guess. Plus, I have 4 beautiful 5 spoke American Racing 17s on my GP now that I will put on it. They won't look right on the GXP with flared front fenders. Sure, the MC comes standard with 18s, but I love these wheels and they'll look sooooo good on a black SS.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I think the only things holding me back from really liking the GXP is a lack of a manual tranny and that horrendous dash design. Looks like the designers went on an acid trip when they designed it.

Why Impala over MC? I dunno. I suppose if I were really going to spend my money on them, I'd have to take a closer look. But just from seeing them around, the current (pre-'06) MC has never quite sat right with me (though the interiors are actually quite nice). I drove an '03 V6 MCSS (N/A) around for a week or two a long time ago. I remember being impressed by the ride, the quiet, the interior, and the guts of the 3800. But the exterior styling just doesn't sit right with me.

I really like the restyle of the Impala a lot; I'm not sure I'm quite as sold on the restyled MC. I think the Impala got fresh sheetmetal everywhere, whereas the MC kept most of the bodywork that was already only so-so (for me). I also think it is a little on the big side for a sporty two door. BUT, I'll also admit that in black they can look pretty sharp (minimizes the impact of the parts I don't like, I guess).

For me, the two door vs. four door thing has never been a problem. For example, I really loved the last gen Grand Prix as a four door (styled better in some ways than the new one, though the GXP touches remove that advantage). But I could never grow to like the proportions on the two door, for whatever reason.

I certainly wouldn't fault someone for choosing the MC over the Impala, though. :) And when I start seeing them in fully decked out trim with the 18s, I might change my mind some. Part of the problem is that most of the Monte Carlos I've seen up close were still camoflauged, while I got to see several basically production level Impys.

"

It's good to know that even a Pontiac salesman can't figure out how to operate a wortless "gizmo" like a G meter.:lol:
.[/B]

I guess that's why so few people are buying G-tech and other performance meters and Car and Driver felt compelled to do a story on performance meters for the two or three people interested in "worthless gizmos" right?

I agree, the GXP is/will be a better car. But it will be pricier, I do not care for the style as much, has 2 too many doors, and I can upgrade the MC anyway. Further, I'm not crazy about the fatter front tires. I can't rotate them, and with a 140 treadwear on those front tires, they'll be toast in less than 20k, I'd guess.

Also, no spare for the GXP. The the well for the spare tire in the trunk is not large enough fit a wheel which will clear the GXP's brakes.

Good review, Jason. I'd have to agree on all counts. I have to admit to drooling all over our Bleen GXP for the past three weeks or so. We put every single option for our first one, and it sure is sweet! We have the DVD Nav and the whole shebang. All the impressions Jason gave are, IMO, spot on. Though, cough cough, I had to put a few more miles on it.......cough :D

I'd seriously have to say that to me, it would be a tough decision between the GXP and GTO (I live in Northern Wisconsin and travel much in the Way North U.P of Michigan). Plus, I'd wait for the 2006 GXP anyways.....nothing big folks, buy an '05, I'm picky about the little things.... (you know what I mean Jase, you got the GM CDrom on 2006MY)

GM really has a lot of cool toys currently for sale and in the pipeline that it makes it tough to pick just one to drive! A 2006 Daytona Sunset Orange Vette is calling for me, I must admit.....but that's a story for another time. :)

Plus, I'd wait for the 2006 GXP anyways.....nothing big folks, buy an '05, I'm picky about the little things.... (you know what I mean Jase, you got the GM CDrom on 2006MY)


What's being changed on the '06's? :)



-Mike

What's being changed on the '06's? :)

Just minor little puny changes. (Hint: think interior, but not a new dash) NOTHING perfomance related, and it won't change the outside appearance. That's all I'm saying...

Lew,

Haven't been to work to see the CD yet...look forward to it.

I honestly hope an '06 SS is in my future. But my desire for an IROC is clouding my vision, and the fact is my current GP is almost too nice for a daily driver. I hate pouring a ton of $$ into a daily driver to watch it get scratched and depreciate. A toy though? Especially a nice 350 IROC? Yummy :D

With that being said, I'll still beg borrow and steal for the MC :D

Thanks for the review Jason, I haven't seen the GXP yet, but from the photos I really don't like the new front grilles, but like always I'll reserve final judgement when I get a personal close look. I personally can't wait to get my hands on a new Impala SS to check out the V8 and the redesign, but I am disappointed that the V8 won't be in the 9C1.

I remember your review of the '04 GTO from a while back. But I've got to ask you have you had a chance to drive a '05 yet? If you haven't you really need to, I don't see how a '05 would put you to sleep. The LS2 is intoxicating to drive with a 6-speed. I love the '05s with the sport pkg. I would be all over the '05 GTO if it came with some sort of open top feature, but I might change my mind in the future.

David,

The grille looks far better in person, and as a matter of fact continues to grow on me more and more. I was just looking at it a few minutes ago and I like the nose even more this week than last week!

I've only driven an '05 GTO around the lot. We have one but its permanently in the showroom until it sells. Don't get me wrong, I loved the '04. But the more I look at this car, the lack of styling impact bothers me. My first car was a 135hp 2.8 V6 '89 Camaro. Loved the style, hated having no power. But it was a fun car to be seen in. And the top came off. The GTO is the polar opposite. Some style, IMO, is crucial...

I personnaly like the GXP better but I might be a little biased since I build them everyday!

Actually I don't think I'm biased. It's just that I really don't like the styling of the Charger AT ALL. The Grand Prix needs a few tweeks like the interior and rear-end but is an overall decnt package especially in GXP form.

The problem I see with this car is that people won't see it (appreciate it) as a muscle car and that it lacks the refinements of similarily priced imports.

I think that the person that will consider buying a GXP will also take a good look at the 300C and Charger or Mustang and very well may pick one of them instead.

So far, sales numbers speak for themselves. Chrysler had 20,000 Chargers ordered before production began. The Mustangs have outsold the 300Cs and we have had 2 weeks layoffs already in Oshawa Car Plant #2 when these cars we build are VERY NEW. The GP is selling half as much as the last body style GP. Not good. :(

It's frustrating because even though the GXP is a GREAT car, it doesn't seem to be a sure hit with a certain "customer". I hope sales pick up for these cars. I know that the MC and Impalas will do good. They've made great improvements in fit and finish and giving the car a refined look.

I bet most people dont even know you can get a GP with a V8 now...its not like you see it advertised on TV or anywhere anyway.... Its knida like a secret that no one at gm wants to share with the public.

I've realized what the problem is with the Grand Prix V8.

It looks like the same Grand Prix that's been on sale for the past number of years. At least the Impala has a different body, and people will associate the new V8 with it.

No so the new GP. :think:

And if GM was smart. They would have made it RWD. Then it would be perfect.

Good review. It would be even better if you put that G-meter to use and gotten us some figures.

The use of the Ls4 was a great move, and GM will hopefully get around to offering an AWD option (one can hope) down the line.

And if GM was smart. They would have made it RWD. Then it would be perfect.

Would have to create a whole new chassis.

Not all that smart when the identical chassis Chevrolet Impala is selling at a clip of 200,000 cars per year.

I would consider the GXP..but I cannot get through th ugly front grille. I have yet to see one in person...so maybe it is just not photogenic.....

Either way, somone at clubgp did this photoshop which IMO is how it shoulda looked.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/upfiles/31552/Om34108.jpg

The 300C and Magnum is around the same price. Would consider them way before the GXP.

Would have to create a whole new chassis.

Not all that smart when the identical chassis Chevrolet Impala is selling at a clip of 200,000 cars per year.

Rwd is out of question on the impala. Best thing would be if they can adapt AWD somehow. Make it standard on the SS and optional on the others. Ford sedan has it, and Chryslers 300 does too.

Rwd is out of question on the impala. Best thing would be if they can adapt AWD somehow. Make it standard on the SS and optional on the others. Ford sedan has it, and Chryslers 300 does too.

I'd love to see that too....but it'll never happen.

First, GM isn't going to spend that kind of money on the W-car. Second, even if they did, AWD on the Impala means replacing it's full sized gas tank with one from a Toro.

When is the W-platform scheduled for a full-scale replacement?

Assuming GM will keep a larger sized FWD platform (can't believe the wouldn't), when is it scheduled to debut? Is work even being done on one?

While I think the W-platform has become a strong platform with quality vehicles, it is getting long in tooth if you go back to it's original form in 1988.

Any word on this? Is there even a greek letter deignation like we have for everything else (Delta, Sigma, Zeta, Theta, Lambda....???)

I remember being some rumors a while back about a "Chi" platform that was still FWD...

Branden,

While it looks uglier in the pictures, it looks significantly better than the current nose in person. The biggest improvement is getting rid of the one piece fogs/blinkers. It really looks nice in person.

Does anyone have a comparison of the new GP sales versus old? Someone above said they're selling at half the rate? I can see how that's possible, but still find it hard to believe...wow. I knew it wasn't selling as well, but half?