Is Cobalt SS "good enough" for you?

Since it came up that the Cobalt SS's domination of the V6 Mustang in the $22,000 poll could be used by GM as ammunition against a new Camaro, it seems like a good time to set the record straight. Given your choice between the Cobalt SS and a new V6 Camaro, which are about equal in terms of straight line performance and handling, which do you choose for the money?

Man, given those two choices I would have to choose the Cobalt SS. I could never get myself to buy a V6 Camaro, knowing what the V8 has to offer.

To answer your question though, NO a Cobalt SS is not enough. It doesn't have the sound or the looks or the nastalgia of a muscle car.

Dan

Given your choice between the Cobalt SS and a new V6 Camaro, which are about equal in terms of straight line performance and handling, which do you choose for the money?

This is the important point...right here. A base Camaro which performs roughly on par with Cobalt SS. That, my friend is the sweet spot. Of course I'd go for Camaro then.

Camaro won't do that however, if it mimics Mustang too closely...with a coarse motor, truck suspension, and cheap interior.

Man, given those two choices I would have to choose the Cobalt SS. I could never get myself to buy a V6 Camaro, knowing what the V8 has to offer.

Well ok, let's say you can buy that pavement-pounding Z28, and you do....but you and the wife also want a sporty, decently quick coupe in the low $20,000 range. Now which choice is it? :)

EDIT: From an enthusiast's point of view, it seems like there's a basic stigma with owning a V6 pony car. In this example, the buyer would rather shy away from that stigma all together and buy something else than that "V6 muscle car". That's a shame....but I also think it's Ford and Chevy's job to try and break the mold a little bit and produce a V6 Mustang/Camaro that people can actually be proud to own.

Well ok, let's say you can buy that pavement-pounding Z28, and you do....but you and the wife also want a sporty, decently quick coupe in the low $20,000 range. Now which choice is it? :)

I KNOW which one my wife would choose. The Cobalt SS. She loves my Z28, but for her, the Cobalt would be the choice.

I think the problem here is that you just CAN'T compare the Cobalt to the Camaro. They are so different on so many levels that it's not really fair to try and compare the two. The Camaro is a muscle car. The Camaro would have been stopped DEAD if it only were offered in a V6. The Camaro is not a Camaro without the V8.

I don't think the Cobalt is any threat to the Camaro. In my opinion, so much of this boils down to "which car you would like to see in your garage 25 years from now". The V8 Camaro has that, I'm not sure the Cobalt does.

Dan

Since it came up that the Cobalt SS's domination of the V6 Mustang in the $22,000 poll could be used by GM as ammunition against a new Camaro,....
I think that's a bit of a stretch - keeping in mind that this Forum is very much dominated by GM folks.

I can't help it. I would never own a "V6 muscle car" because I don't think there is such a thing. I'm just old-fashioned like that. Sure, a V6 can be nice...I mean, I drive an I6 Jeep, but when I want a muscle car, I don't want to be missing two extra cylinders. If I had to pick, I'd get the Cobalt SS.

Let me make something perfectly clear.

The Cobalt SS is NOT a substitute for a Camaro. Chevy doesn't think so, I don't think so, Mr. Lutz doesn't think so....Brent Dewar doesn't think so......

so please..please...don't jump to conclusions.

There is still a market for a RWD coupe with a V6 AND a muscular as all get out V8........you know it, we know it........

let me further elaborate.

WE all know the Camaro has to have a pavement pounding V8. That's in the very DNA of a Camaro.

that said, not everyone wants a V8.

I clearly remember watching focus groups and many mustang owners (mostly female, but some male) said one of the rejectors for Camaro was "it has too much power/has more power than I want/need" -- this came up time and time again in city after city

The evidence is in the number of V6 Mustangs sold each year. (or, for that matter, the number of V6 Camaros and Firebirds sold in the 4th gen cars...esp. early on in the cycle of '93/96.

It is not ALWAYS a function of purchase price. (as evidenced by the fact that we had to put rebates on an 18K coupe yet we couldn't build enough 33K SSs) It more often than not is an insurance issue.

Going back into the 3rd gen, most told us that they'd like the option of a V6 with the IROC/Z28 style. So.......we did it....and it was hugely successful ...fast forward to the 4th gen.....didn't go over as well.....so these are issues that we have to address with a 5th gen.

I've digressed..but rest assured, no one at GM thinks the Cobalt SS is in any way a replacement for a Camaro.

A v6 camaro with a Series III 3800 S/C would be very nice. I voted for the v6 even though its a bit short of what I listed for HP, but close

I think that's a bit of a stretch - keeping in mind that this Forum is very much dominated by GM folks.

As of late I'd say this is a very, very false statement.

22k? hmm Ill go buy a srt-4 not a glorified cavalier

22k? hmm Ill go buy a srt-4 not a glorified cavalier

The Cobalt is NOT a cavalier in any way shape or form. If you don't know that you should just STFU! :rolleyes:

As of late I'd say this is a very, very false statement.
We all have our opinions, but there's probably less than half a dozen folks here that lean Ford (or DCX). Which should, of course, be expected.

A v6 camaro with a Series III 3800 S/C would be very nice. I voted for the v6 even though its a bit short of what I listed for HP, but close

Thats was canned for the 5.3L V8. You'd get the new v6 instead without boost. :cool:

Personally I love the Interior of the Cobalt but the exterior (and extra doors) of the Ion Redline. Also even with the extra doors, the Ion weighs less (could it be those silly huge wheels?).

In terms of a Cobalt SS or a v6 Camaro, it'd be a hard choice. For a daily, I'd take the Cobalt. It should get better fuel economy, have more then enough power, and be just something easier to drive. RWD isnt hard to drive in winter or bad weather, but I'd rather not have to care. :)

But if I were to take the Cobalt SS, I'd probably stomache the dashboard for the half doors on the Ion. They'd make the rear seat sooooo much more usable.

There is no direct comparison, but it shows GM does have good coverage and good product either way.

as long as that Camaro comes with some nice looking 17" rims

22k? hmm Ill go buy a srt-4 not a glorified cavalier

So by that logic, why is the SRT-4 not just a glorified Neon? :confused:


-Mike

So by that logic, why is the SRT-4 not just a glorified Neon? :confused:


-Mike
Everyone knows the SRT-4 IS a Neon. The Cobalt is on delta and the Cavie was on the J-body and the two aren't even related. Antz just doesn't know what he is talking about.
:death: SRT-4 humpers

I could never choose a warmed-over Cavalier over a Camaro.

I could never choose a warmed-over Cavalier over a Camaro.

You also don't know crap about the Cobalt do you? Will people pull their collective heads outta their butts and look at the Cobalt to see it IS NOT a Cavalier.

What would you buy?

A $22,000 well equpted Cobalt SS, or a IRS, 500 horse, Corvette chassis based, hand assembled 2007 Camaro Z28 that tops BMW is assembly quality and quality of materials.

That's the problem with comparing a real car with an imaginary or speculated one. Anyone can do it. ;)

Everyone knows the SRT-4 IS a Neon. The Cobalt is on delta and the Cavie was on the J-body and the two aren't even related. Antz just doesn't know what he is talking about.
:death: SRT-4 humpers

I know, I just wanted to hear him try to explain it. :D

Maybe it would be better for certain people to accept that not only is a V6 pony car more desirable than a compact to a segment of people, it must be desirable in its own right. "If it isn't a V8, it isn't a Camaro" thinking is detrimental to any viable program for a 5th Gen.

I think the V6 Mustang has been accepted as a Mustang by Mustang enthusiasts (ie people that like and want to buy Mustangs) than the V6 Camaro has been to the Camaro camp.

I wouldn't consider either, but i would lean towards the 245hp camaro v6 assuming it looks great and still represents a good value.

I think that both cars attract different people. First off, someone that wants a sport compact is deffinatly go to a Cobalt SS. Its targeted for a sertain segment of the market. A Camaro V6 could deffinatly be a different type of car if done right.
A better way of putting this is would you own a Cobalt SS or a Mustang V6?

Either way, they are coming into a Chevy dealer, and the WORST thing that could happen is that they buy a Chevy. OH NO!! MORE SALES! What will GM do now when people cant decide which car to pick from inside there own divison? Its better then them leaving, and buying a hot Civic with Vtec yo....

If performance was the same (0-60, braking, handling) ---> Camaro.

Your poll assumes I'm shopping the price point only. In that regard, best performance for the $$. I would want the car that could best take on the dual job of daily driver and occasional track-day at my price goal.

let me further elaborate.

WE all know the Camaro has to have a pavement pounding V8. That's in the very DNA of a Camaro.

that said, not everyone wants a V8.

I clearly remember watching focus groups and many mustang owners (mostly female, but some male) said one of the rejectors for Camaro was "it has too much power/has more power than I want/need" -- this came up time and time again in city after city

The evidence is in the number of V6 Mustangs sold each year. (or, for that matter, the number of V6 Camaros and Firebirds sold in the 4th gen cars...esp. early on in the cycle of '93/96.

It is not ALWAYS a function of purchase price. (as evidenced by the fact that we had to put rebates on an 18K coupe yet we couldn't build enough 33K SSs) It more often than not is an insurance issue.

Going back into the 3rd gen, most told us that they'd like the option of a V6 with the IROC/Z28 style. So.......we did it....and it was hugely successful ...fast forward to the 4th gen.....didn't go over as well.....so these are issues that we have to address with a 5th gen.

I've digressed..but rest assured, no one at GM thinks the Cobalt SS is in any way a replacement for a Camaro.

I think that was one the successful points of the 3rd gens. Having 4 different engines to choose from. (V6,L03,LB9,L98). There was power for everyone.. I guess..

Three would be an optimal number, with base, mid, and hipo; that would be contrary to the 4th gen which was base, hipo, and "not really faster than hipo, but we'll rate it as such and charge you." ;)

let me further elaborate.

WE all know the Camaro has to have a pavement pounding V8. That's in the very DNA of a Camaro.

that said, not everyone wants a V8.

I clearly remember watching focus groups and many mustang owners (mostly female, but some male) said one of the rejectors for Camaro was "it has too much power/has more power than I want/need" -- this came up time and time again in city after city

The evidence is in the number of V6 Mustangs sold each year. (or, for that matter, the number of V6 Camaros and Firebirds sold in the 4th gen cars...esp. early on in the cycle of '93/96.

It is not ALWAYS a function of purchase price. (as evidenced by the fact that we had to put rebates on an 18K coupe yet we couldn't build enough 33K SSs) It more often than not is an insurance issue.

Going back into the 3rd gen, most told us that they'd like the option of a V6 with the IROC/Z28 style. So.......we did it....and it was hugely successful ...fast forward to the 4th gen.....didn't go over as well.....so these are issues that we have to address with a 5th gen.

I've digressed..but rest assured, no one at GM thinks the Cobalt SS is in any way a replacement for a Camaro.

All great points.

New car buyers can be divided into 2 groups, all else being equal.

One group is going to buy a new car, and the'll go with all the bells and whistles they can afford, and then probally some more on top of that. The other is buying a brand new car for dependability, warranty & price.

A Cobalt SS buyer is going to be different from the base Cobalt buyer, just like the base Camaro buyer is going to be different from the Camaro SS buyer.
"SS" buyers want a car that's tops in it's class, and is willing to pay for it. The base buyers are simply looking for a great value in a great looking, sporty car. If they want more, they'll personalize it as they can afford to, or as they happen across performance or decorative pieces.

Any future Camaro SHOULDN'T be a performance car 1st and foremost. The thing has to sell in volume, and that means it has to appeal to those who aren't up nights looking for the most bang for the buck, but the best and most stylish car for the dollar.

I think that was one the successful points of the 3rd gens. Having 4 different engines to choose from. (V6,L03,LB9,L98). There was power for everyone.. I guess..

Utterly massive waste of money.

3...

Maybe.

Utterly massive waste of money.

3...

Maybe.
yea besides selling so many....that's terrible :rolleyes:
4 i think was maybe a little excessive, maybe
3 is just right though
we saw how well the 2 engine thing worked out in the 4th gen right?

I think the V6 Mustang has been accepted as a Mustang by Mustang enthusiasts (ie people that like and want to buy Mustangs) than the V6 Camaro has been to the Camaro camp.

This is 150% TRUE. I have had numerous encounters with Z28 drivers that have been like "Nice Camaro" then "oh, its only a 6" :death:

I would still take a good v6 Camaro to a Cobalt. I love Cobalts, they are well-built and attractive cars. But at least a v6 Camaro is RWD and not to mention that you will always have an engine bay that can fit a fire breathing v8 should you choose to build one (and firebreathing v8's are FUN to build :D).

One thing Chevy should do with the v6 Camaro is offer something similar to Ford's v6 Pony Package and continue to offer similar packages like the Y87 package. They both seemed to sell very well and if I was buying a new v6, I'd more than willing to cough up an extra 1-2 grand to get better more unique looks and better gearing (the 3.08's in my car SUCK :death: )

You also don't know crap about the Cobalt do you? Will people pull their collective heads outta their butts and look at the Cobalt to see it IS NOT a Cavalier.

I don't claim to either. The car LOOKS like a warmed over Cavalier and that is close enough for me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

One thing Chevy should do with the v6 Camaro is offer something similar to Ford's v6 Pony Package and continue to offer similar packages like the Y87 package. They both seemed to sell very well and if I was buying a new v6, I'd more than willing to cough up an extra 1-2 grand to get better more unique looks and better gearing (the 3.08's in my car SUCK :death: )

An optional factory blower would be nice. 3.9L + optional supercharger = easy 300+hp potential. Maybe badge it as an RS.

It'd fill the gap between the base 3.9L v6 car and the Ls2 cars very nicely. Of course, they could always use the 303hp Ls4 too for the RS if they don't want to go the blown v6 route. This might be better.

240hp 3.9 - base v6 car
303-310hp 5.3 - RS
390-400hp 6.0 - z28 and SS

Sounds like a very nice and balanced lineup.

Regarding engine variety, Ford's going to go crazy on the stangs.

We know these two for sure
GT - 300hp 4.6 3v Sohc
GT500 - 450-500hp 5.4L 4v S/c'd dohc

and i'm going to guess on these
Mach 1: 350-400hp 5.4 dohc N/A?
Boss: 400-425hphp N/A 5.4 Dohc or perhaps a version of the N/A 425hp 5.0L cammer crate engine?
Bullit: Maybe like the 2001 version, it'll use a slightly modified version of the GT's 4.6L Sohc with around 320 horses?

I'm just speculating on the BOSS, Mach-1, and Bullit engines, but we do know Ford will offer these trims in the new mustangs. And chances are, each will be packing it's own different v8.

Variety costs $$$$ as Pace pointed out, but it also allows individuals to pick the trim/engine that suits them best. Especially to the non-enthusiasts that aren't as hp-minded as us enthusiasts. We'll never see 400hp as "too much", but there are people out there that would.

I don't claim to either. The car LOOKS like a warmed over Cavalier and that is close enough for me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Go look at one in person, sit in it, check out the vehicle before you judge it. If you think it is a warmed over Cavy after that you can say so. BUT if you haven't even seen it in person and checked it out then you are being stupid judging it before you give it a chance.