I'm going to beat the piss out of a CTS-V now, full report later...

Dealership giving CTS-V test drive to me.

Heh.

Rode up on the Busa yesterday, sales guy is a crotch-rocket fan. So now I'm gonna go back and pound the crap out of one.

Hope that rear end issue got fixed or this is a "Wednesday" car.




Alright, in all seriousness, I'll be relatively gentle - I'm not going to screw up a car I'm not planning on buying for a while. It's going to get rapped out in second though at the very minimum.

Can't wait to hear what you think.

I just think that car, runs, drives, goes, turns, brakes awesome!!!

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.

It's too bad that Mr. Taylor didn't see fit to put an actual handbrake in any CTS.:( A manual transmissioned car really shouldn't be offered without a hand operated emergency brake.

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.
Hope that was a cryptic yet useful hint. :cool:

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.

But the real question is "Does he like to share?"

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.

Wasn't there a similar connection when Corvette got a Cadillac guy and Cadillac was able to score the Y-body? :)

Wasn't there a similar connection when Corvette got a Cadillac guy and Cadillac was able to score the Y-body? :)

I think that the story of the Cadillac XLR is more of a "cautionary tale" than an example of success.

Alright, in all seriousness, I'll be relatively gentle - I'm not going to screw up a car I'm not planning on buying for a while. It's going to get rapped out in second though at the very minimum.
But I read from a certain member of this forum that the only way to test drive a car correctly was to beat the crap out of it...

Tidbit of Information:

The CTS Vehicle Line Executive was Jim Taylor....

His assignment before that?

Camaro/Firebird.

Happens to be a Camaro Enthusiast.......now is General Manager of Cadillac.

bring him back to Chevrolet... if only for the time being.;) He did an AWESOME job with sigma. AAAH i love that chassis :D

all i can say is if the next camaro handles anything like a CTS-V i would be EXTREMELY happy.

Alrighty, here's the low-down:

Platinum 2005 CTS-V, LS6 motor, all options.

Well, you buy a CTS-V for performance, so let's start there:

It's quick. Really quick, and really poised. The car is difficult to upset and brakes very, very well. Now, I haven't had my butt instrumented, but my cheeks are telling me a SS/WS6 F4 is quicker. I had one pretty good opportunity to roll it on to an onramp and "giv'r th' spurs" and it charged up the ramp most impressively, but I'm pretty sure my SS was quicker when it was stock... sorta... maybe... oh hell... keep reading (fast forward to ride and handling if you want the reasoning behind that statement).

Ah... the LS6... "zingy" is a nice word for it. Dulcet American V8 tones, rev-happy, hard-pulling. The state-of-the-art (last year) in big V8 car engines... The LS2 will be an interesting comparison, but I'm a big fan of moving UP, not marking time, in the power department. If it's possible, somebody find an extra 25hp somewhere between now and when the 06's launch... A tall order, I know, but inexorable progress makes for greatness.

Interior:

Nice. Seats were comfy and supportive, the car fit me well. It doesn't feel small or claustrophobic. I'm not an interior grain/color appearance expert, but the grain on the IP and stack just kinda strikes me as... well... different. Everything is well laid out, easy to reach. Shifter was nice, and felt much, much better than my SS's.

Ride & Handling:

Flawless.

Part of the reason my perception of speed might be questioned is that the CTS-V displays NONE of the characteristics that typify the more traditional American performance cars. It never gets upset.

I'm very used to the F4's live rear axle, and the feeling of it deciding to go one way when the car wants to go the other when accelerating hard over a bump. No such nonsense here.

The ride makes speed and acceleration deceptive. On the on-ramp blast, the rear-end stepped out just a hair on an upshift and was caught immediately by the car's electronics. My SS would have gotten squirrelly enough (oversteer) to require a steering correction under identical conditions - the CTS-V didn't. Little bark, tiny little rear end shake, a couple of beeps and the computer displayed, Stabilitrak authored:

"Hey, bub... take it easy"

Or something to that effect on the DIC/NAV - I was too busy grinning. My passenger was busy trying to separate the seams on the seat cushion by digging into them with both hands and wondering:

"Is this thing ever going to slow down???"

The seams held up... but the car wouldn't stop accelerating. The car is very quiet and composed at... well... a "whole bunch" of miles per hour.

Now, before I talk about issues, let me say this:

This car just up and blows away an M3. There is no contest here. Yes, it's bigger, but to me that's a good thing. I don't remember the instrumented numbers, but as F4's had no trouble at all with M3's I'm guessing the CTS-V will either mow them down or run neck and neck.

OK, on to the issues as there are two, and only two...

1) Floor mats. Whatever has to be done, get the floor mats out of the way of the clutch. The dealership had flipped them over to keep them pristine for the sake of appearance - which is very understandable, but the driver's side one kept hanging the clutch up. Perception is reality. Figure something else out and the engineers can help here... bolt the darned thing down if you have to and make the mounting bezel reversible (put one on each side of the mat) so the dealer can flip the floormat over and still keep it firmly in place. DO NOT allow an inexperienced driver to have an unfavorable experience with this car because the clutch hangs up on the floormat - which they will invariably blame on the clutch itself. The clutch is very, very nice in feel, WHEN THE FLOORMAT IS NOT IN THE WAY.

That one is subtle, and I can see why an engineer might not have comprehended that one, but if the dealers are going to flip the floor mats over to protect them (makes sense) then the engineers need to figure out a way to KEEP THEM OUT OF THE WAY OF THE CLUTCH WHEN FLIPPED OVER. My Cavalier's floormats interfere with the clutch when flipped right-side up, and that is unacceptable in any car.

The fix is cheap, it's a Cadillac, GET IT DONE.


2) The CTS-V may not be the typical quarter-mile "one trick pony" that some cars have the (incorrect) reputation of being (Mustang, Camaro, Trans Am), but that is no excuse whatsoever for the the rear end demonstrating vicious wheel-hop. I did not provoke the car into wheel-hop at any time and left all standard electronic nannys in place - honestly because I was afraid of destroying the rear end and being too aggressive with a car that someone else was going to end up buiying to do a real hole-shot, but the wheel-hop issue MUST be eliminated immediately. No excuses. Fix it NOW.

But I read from a certain member of this forum that the only way to test drive a car correctly was to beat the crap out of it...
I was picking up some parts for my SS last year at my dealer and the parts guy pointed out a silver CTS-V sitting on the lot. When I went to check it out, the salesman who came over to me turned out to be a neighbour at my cottage! (who knows my SS) We went back in and talked a bit and then asked if I'd like to take it out for a ride? Do kids like candy? :D Anyway, he threw the keys at me and said, "Go have some fun - I want to hear what you think!" I took it out by myself for more than 1/2 an hour - I even put a few bucks worth of gas in it 'cuz it was sitting on "E" when I got in!
This thing is just incredible! The handling is just amazing! I track my SS and I have no doubt the V can hang with it on a road course. I'm used to driving the SS (headers, H/C) with an open cutout and the quiet was very misleading - and so is the perception of speed! I bounced the thing off the rev limiter in 3rd on a long sweeper entry ramp to a highway! From the sound in the cockpit, I had no idea I was going that fast or that I was that high up in the rev band! Not quite as quick as my modded LS1, but not too far off - and just in a whole 'nuther category when in the "civilized" department. An iron fist in a a velvet glove.

Best regardSS,

Elie

I thought some people around here said that you couldn't tell the difference between an IRS and a buggy axle?!? ;)

I thought some people around here said that you couldn't tell the difference between an IRS and a buggy axle?!? ;)

I, kind sir, am one of the folks who believes that an IRS in our future beloved Camaro is a necessity.

I knew you'd like it!

Now, to everyone (everyone that likes to turn a steering wheel....that is), who says a solid axle is "good enough", and "I can't tell the difference"......please oh please...go drive a CTSv, or even a regular CTS.......and then go drive a Mustang (or even a 3rd gen Camaro for the same effect).

If you can't tell the difference...then I give up.

I, kind sir, am one of the folks who believes that an IRS in our future beloved Camaro is a necessity.

Bless you....my son.... :bow: ;)

2) The CTS-V may not be the typical quarter-mile "one trick pony" that some cars have the (incorrect) reputation of being (Mustang, Camaro, Trans Am), but that is no excuse whatsoever for the the rear end demonstrating vicious wheel-hop. I did not provoke the car into wheel-hop at any time and left all standard electronic nannys in place - honestly because I was afraid of destroying the rear end and being too aggressive with a car that someone else was going to end up buiying to do a real hole-shot, but the wheel-hop issue MUST be eliminated immediately. No excuses. Fix it NOW.

Isn't the CTS-V's traction control kill switch in the glove box - just like a Lincoln Towncar?:lol:

PacerX, I can't honestly blame you for not putting the CTS-V to the acid test, but you can't expect true praise and admiration, either. Hero worship requires some actual heroics.

Isn't the CTS-V's traction control kill switch in the glove box - just like a Lincoln Towncar?:lol:

PacerX, I can't honestly blame you for not putting the CTS-V to the acid test, but you can't expect true praise and admiration, either. Hero worship requires some actual heroics.

Sorry, I just can't truly abuse a car a customer besides me is going to buy.

I knew you'd like it!

Now, to everyone (everyone that likes to turn a steering wheel....that is), who says a solid axle is "good enough", and "I can't tell the difference"......please oh please...go drive a CTSv, or even a regular CTS.......and then go drive a Mustang (or even a 3rd gen Camaro for the same effect).

If you can't tell the difference...then I give up.

One can also say go drive a BMW 5 series and it will also feel and drive better than live axle a Mustang, but do you really feel they're going to share pieces with a $19,000 V6 car? ;)

One can also say go drive a BMW 5 series and it will also feel and drive better than live axle a Mustang, but do you really feel they're going to share pieces with a $19,000 V6 car? ;)

Live axle's gotta go.

1) Interior packaging. Non-negotiable.

2) Dynamics. I've lived with a live axle and I've driven all kinds of high-horsepower IRS cars. It's time to let the live axle go.

3) Reliability. Fix the wheel hop issues and the glass-jaw 10 bolt has no business being in a car when the IRS can take everything a 440hp motor in a 4000 lbs. car can dish out (STS-V). The only other real option for a live axle is a 12-bolt, and I just don't see that happening.

One can also say go drive a BMW 5 series and it will also feel and drive better than live axle a Mustang, but do you really feel they're going to share pieces with a $19,000 V6 car? ;)

The 5 series BMW won't.......


A better question might be.....is it possible/advantageous for a $30,000, GM luxury sedan to share it's suspension with a low 20's V6 sporty car?

Absolutely!

This car just up and blows away an M3. There is no contest here. Yes, it's bigger, but to me that's a good thing. I don't remember the instrumented numbers, but as F4's had no trouble at all with M3's I'm guessing the CTS-V will either mow them down or run neck and neck.


Probably neck and neck. Most are in the low to mid 13 second range with 107-109mph traps. A good match for the CTS-V.

Gotta ask, what's an F4? 4th gen f-bod??

Good review. I'm with you on the V's Ls2 needing more power for the sake of "improvement". Dropping a 400hp/400lb-ft tq Ls6 for an ls2 with similar output (although better tq curve/powerband), doesn't really constitute as an improvement. On paper anyways. Especially if the Ls2's nanny proves to be very intrusive. 425hp would have been a good figure for the 06's Ls2. Less than the big-boy STS-V, but an improvement over the ls6 CTS-V.

On the topic of IRS, I'd welcome a quality IRS as long as it isn't expensive, weak, or hop-prone.

My passenger was busy trying to separate the seams on the seat cushion by digging into them with both hands and wondering:

"Is this thing ever going to slow down???"

The seams held up... but the car wouldn't stop accelerating. The car is very quiet and composed at... well... a "whole bunch" of miles per hour.


hehehe nice analogy.Good review, its pretty spot on. CTSV is my dream cars (from McLaren F1 and Koenigsegg CCR) :eek:

IRS would make for such a better Camaro.
and really. the current mustang, released in 05 has live axle. if we were to get a Camaro in 08 and it has live axle then its no better than a 3 yr old car, in that aspect. What it for 09 or 10 the mustang gets IRS standard, then Camaro is already down and uncompetitive after just one year. IRS is needed. Camaro has to blow the mustang out of the water.

Reviews like this can only give us a picture on what a 400hp Camaro might feel like, if done the right way. Can you imagine the landslide of Camaro ending #1 in just about every single performance competition? Is it worth the extra 200 bucks per chassis? I belive reviews like this, and others of the CTS-V, is a big yes.

Isn't the CTS-V's traction control kill switch in the glove box - just like a Lincoln Towncar?

Its also on the steering wheel in the V. Also has different settings, so no, its nothing like a Lincoln Town car.

I owned an 02 WS6, an 03 Vette, and now the 04 V. My WS6 and Vette felt faster, but they weren't. I think it has to do with the extra weight and better ride of the V. I think anyone who turned a 13.1 with a bone stock stick camaro/firebird, can do the same with the V. My Vette and WS6 ran about 13.4. Its a challenge to feather the clutch to prevent the hop, but its the same as trying to launch a Vette and get no wheelspin. To me they are both a wash. It does suck not being able to light the tires up at all. I don't care how old you are, EVERYONE wants to do it at least once, especially just before its time to change out the rear tires. The hop does force you to launch the car better though.

The 5 series BMW won't.......


A better question might be.....is it possible/advantageous for a $30,000, GM luxury sedan to share it's suspension with a low 20's V6 sporty car?

Absolutely!

That 30K car is an entry level luxury sedan that's used as a price hook, like the $18,000 base V6 or $23,000 base Z28 that nobody actually bought. Finding a new $30,000 CTS is like finding Elvis. That base CTS isn't quite a profit machine.

Now, if you were to tell me that there were pieces that GM could subsitute, say stamped steel in place of alumunum pieces, and perhaps a strut front suspension, or even a recycled SLA front end from the 4th gen which would drive down the cost of the overall car, then I think we might be close to a deal here. :)

I just happened to click on a link to www.gmprovinggrounds.com and boy the CTS-V looks good.

There is a short video of the CTS-V .. beautiful..

(Head to Cadillac, then CTS-V, then Gallery and finally "move with power")

PS They also have a 0-60 vid of the C6 in 4.2 seconds... :bow:

It's too bad that Mr. Taylor didn't see fit to put an actual handbrake in any CTS.:( A manual transmissioned car really shouldn't be offered without a hand operated emergency brake.


Upon entering the building tomorrow, I will have him removed to the basement and flogged..........until he bleeds.

Does that make you feel better?


(8.2)

Now, if you were to tell me that there were pieces that GM could subsitute, say stamped steel in place of alumunum pieces, and perhaps a strut front suspension, or even a recycled SLA front end from the 4th gen which would drive down the cost of the overall car, then I think we might be close to a deal here. :)

You know, car companies use up to date suspension pieces on cars...even inexpensive cars...... all the time.

Case and point is the Charger for $22,995. A modern front SLA and 5 link IRS....and yes, with plenty of forged aluminum components. That price also gets you a 24v V6 (as opposed to a cheaper pushrod V6), an expensive MB derived 5 speed automatic trans, (as opposed to a cheaper M5), 4 doors, (as opposed to the cheaper 2), lots of large sedan structure, sheetmetal and stuff, ( as opposed to a coupe's less structure, sheetmetal and stuff)....

I think you know where I'm going with this. ;)

I knew you'd like it!

Now, to everyone (everyone that likes to turn a steering wheel....that is), who says a solid axle is "good enough", and "I can't tell the difference"......please oh please...go drive a CTSv, or even a regular CTS.......and then go drive a Mustang (or even a 3rd gen Camaro for the same effect).

If you can't tell the difference...then I give up.

If they put that IRS in it, would they take care of wheelhop, or would they cheap out and give us a Camaro that can't drag race?

That issue aside, I don't think anyone questions the excellence of the CTS ride and handling vis-a-vis Mustang and Camaro. The problem, as I have said before is that the V6 CTS starts at $29k and change, the price of what would need to be a pretty well equipped Z/28. It would be terrific if GM could put in the IRS and still price it competitively. However, I don't see the IRS paying off sales wise if it ends up costing a lot more than Mustang or alternatively if GM has to make the money up elsewhere, like the interior.

The problem, as I have said before is that the V6 CTS starts at $29k and change,

Are you implying that if CTS had the Colorado's rear axle....it could be priced at base Mustang's $19,770?

Of course not.

Are you implying that if CTS had the Colorado's rear axle....it could be priced at base Mustang's $19,770?

Of course not.
On the flip side, are you implying that putting the CTS's rear axle into a Mustang would make it handle like a $32,000 car? Of course not. A Camaro will not be able to ride and handle like a CTS unless it costs the same as a CTS.

Upon entering the building tomorrow, I will have him removed to the basement and flogged..........until he bleeds.

Does that make you feel better?


(8.2)

Much higher.


Here, let me see if I can amplify:

There's only one place to put a hand parking brake, and that's the center console. Corvette had one on the left side of the driver once, that sucked.

If you are going to take away my center console space to give me a hand brake instead of places to put CD's, or switches, or my cup of joe, or whatever, please GIVE ME A FOOT BRAKE INSTEAD.

Hell, I used to engineer the darned things and they are about the #1 most unused item in a vehicle.

Much higher.


Here, let me see if I can amplify:

There's only one place to put a hand parking brake, and that's the center console. Corvette had one on the left side of the driver once, that sucked.

If you are going to take away my center console space to give me a hand brake instead of places to put CD's, or switches, or my cup of joe, or whatever, please GIVE ME A FOOT BRAKE INSTEAD.

Hell, I used to engineer the darned things and they are about the #1 most unused item in a vehicle.
Except for maybe San Fransisco or other really hilly/mountainous areas. Heck I have NEVER used one in KY.

You know, car companies use up to date suspension pieces on cars...even inexpensive cars...... all the time.

Case and point is the Charger for $22,995. A modern front SLA and 5 link IRS....and yes, with plenty of forged aluminum components. That price also gets you a 24v V6 (as opposed to a cheaper pushrod V6), an expensive MB derived 5 speed automatic trans, (as opposed to a cheaper M5), 4 doors, (as opposed to the cheaper 2), lots of large sedan structure, sheetmetal and stuff, ( as opposed to a coupe's less structure, sheetmetal and stuff)....

I think you know where I'm going with this. ;)
The 5-speed comes standard on the charger? The only way to get it on Magnum is Hemi or AWD.

The 5-speed comes standard on the charger?

Yup. According to Dodge.com.

On the flip side, are you implying that putting the CTS's rear axle into a Mustang would make it handle like a $32,000 car? Of course not.

Of course not. You'd have to cough up....maybe another one hundred bucks at the point of manufacture.....and give it Sigma's front SLA suspension also.

A Camaro will not be able to ride and handle like a CTS unless it costs the same as a CTS.

Completely false.

Hell, I used to engineer the darned things and they are about the #1 most unused item in a vehicle.

Not to nitpick, but I'd prefer a handbrake on the CTS. All my cars have always been manual trans cars, so I use the parking brake everyday.

The last stick car I owned with a footbrake was my 1980 Citation Club Coupe. It had a 4 speed and a bench seat.

I partially agree with redzed on this one. Handbrake on a manual car is betetr than a foot brake.

In Texas it is supposedly illegal to park without setting the parking brake, but I don't think it is ever inforced :)

I partially agree with redzed on this one. Handbrake on a manual car is betetr than a foot brake.

In Texas it is supposedly illegal to park without setting the parking brake, but I don't think it is ever inforced :)

I know it's not enforced.

#1 Parking Brake Warranty issue? Any guesses?


Here... I'll save you all some time:

Cables siezing solid because of dirt and grime build up on the cable itself from lack of use.

Now, do you really want to not have a cupholder big enough to take a 55-gallon Slurpee from 7-11 because of that?

A handbrake would be very nice to have in the CTS and really should be one of those things that just goes hand in hand with a performance car. But if there is going to be a foot brake dont put the release an inch above the hood latch release. I mean seriously why did they do that?

I mean seriously why did they do that?

Well, where would you like it?

Remember, there's a cable there that does the actual "releasing" part. Put it somewhere else and you have two problems:

1) A longer cable = a monetary issue and more cable stretch, which = mushy feel.

2) Packaging. What am I moving somewhere else to get the parking brake release somewhere you like it better?

maybe put the hood release 6 inches away towards the pedal. it isnt that hard. I mean putting it that close and it could be easily be pulled instead of the footbrake release. Make it so u have to reach for the hood release and the footbrake is just a quick hand movement. like a a few inches under the light switch or something.

Well, where would you like it?

Remember, there's a cable there that does the actual "releasing" part. Put it somewhere else and you have two problems:

1) A longer cable = a monetary issue and more cable stretch, which = mushy feel.

2) Packaging. What am I moving somewhere else to get the parking brake release somewhere you like it better?


Details, details....

Consumers will say..."not my problem".

Details, details....

Consumers will say..."not my problem".

Hey, I'm asking a consumer where they want it.

In about 100 years of figuring out where to put stuff on cars, automotive companies have come to the conclusion that putting the release for a foot brake where we put them is pretty much the best place to put them.

If folks don't like it, tell me where to put it and I'll take a look at the issue and see if it can be reasonably accomodated. If so, I'd recommend that we do them that way.

If not, I'll tell ya why.

Now, right underneath the light switch is some seriously valuable territory in a car... so I'll take a look at it in light of that fact.

Hey, I'm asking a consumer where they want it.

In about 100 years of figuring out where to put stuff on cars, automotive companies have come to the conclusion that putting the release for a foot brake where we put them is pretty much the best place to put them.

If folks don't like it, tell me where to put it and I'll take a look at the issue and see if it can be reasonably accomodated. If so, I'd recommend that we do them that way.

If not, I'll tell ya why.

Now, right underneath the light switch is some seriously valuable territory in a car... so I'll take a look at it in light of that fact.







Yeah, I hear ya.

And I'd imagine for 90-95%(?) of the CTS's sold with automatics...it simply is not an issue. But if you want a manual, it's pretty annoying.

Hey, I'm asking a consumer where they want it.

In about 100 years of figuring out where to put stuff on cars, automotive companies have come to the conclusion that putting the release for a foot brake where we put them is pretty much the best place to put them.

If folks don't like it, tell me where to put it and I'll take a look at the issue and see if it can be reasonably accomodated. If so, I'd recommend that we do them that way.

If not, I'll tell ya why.

Now, right underneath the light switch is some seriously valuable territory in a car... so I'll take a look at it in light of that fact.

its more of the location of the hood release than it is the footbrake release if it is going to have a footbrake release it shouldnt be so close to a hood release. The proximity to the to releases is to close.

As on the CTS I drove at the Auto Show in Motion, ya wanna guess what I released instead of the brake ? :rolleyes:

When I drove the CTS-V , I was warned :alert: by the copilot about that.

Dumb location.


Power wise, I did not feel that either the C6 ( auto ) or the CTS-V had it over my current SS .

Of course, when you are limited to around 40 MPH , your perceptions are limited as well.


IRS ? Not mandatory in my book for a Camaro.

If it makes it way in , and can be done w/o jacking the price too far beyond the equivalent Mustang model than I can live w/ it.

Besides - if they save $'s by not putting it in the F5 , then perhaps they can use it for advertisement thereby allowing John Q. Public to be made aware that the car exists, and can be bought at the nearest dealer ! :p


Britt

I used to release the hood instead of the brake, but you get used to it after a little while. Deffinately wouldn't make or break my decision to get another. I'm PRETTY SURE that the engineers thought of every option and that was the best place they could come up with. Of course everything can be done right with enough money.

I always use the park brake on my manual transmission cars and expect to find it on the centre console.

IMO the CTS would be a great candidate for GM to introduce an electric park brake.

CTS is getting a new design for 07 so I guess we'll see.

CTS is getting a new design for 07 so I guess we'll see.

I'm looking forward to seeing the '07.

Actually, I'm also looking forward to seeing the '06. I hear the Sport Package will get some revisions, including 18" wheels.

I may get an 06 if the LS2 in the V has more than 400 ponies. I just can't justify spending that much more than a GTO with the same HP. OBTW, dealer info shows an LS2 for the V in 06. Shoulda been the supercharged version they did.

I always use the park brake on my manual transmission cars and expect to find it on the centre console.


... and on the driver's side of the console (unlike the new Mustang!) I had a '94 Taurus SHO and like the V, the emergency brake was a foot-operated pedal - a royal PITA! I can see a great deal of difficulty doing handbrake turns with a foot-operated e-brake :eek: , but the bottom line was that is was an easy adaption to learn how to use the SHO setup on hills. I'm sure the same thing can be said for the V. In the SHO. I just loaded the drivetrain a bit and pulled the release lever! Voila! Only downside is you can't release the brake gradually - it's kinda like an "on-off" switch instead of a rheostat. This type of e-brake is certainly not the optimal setup, but I don't believe it would be a deal breaker for me on the V. I still managed to really enjoy my SHO in the 4yrs. I had it and never rolled backwards on a hill! :D
Should be interesting to see what the value of an '04 - '05 V is after the new one is released! :cool:

Best reagrdSS,

Elie

Now, do you really want to not have a cupholder big enough to take a 55-gallon Slurpee from 7-11 because of that?
F4CK YEAH! or was that a rhetorical question??

but it doesn't have to be that way. see, if you design the e-brake so that it sits ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE of the console where it's out of the way of the cup holder and within easy reach of the driver, what's this??? you can have both. Novel idea? only if you're GM.

but it doesn't have to be that way. see, if you design the e-brake so that it sits ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE of the console where it's out of the way of the cup holder and within easy reach of the driver, what's this??? you can have both. Novel idea? only if you're GM

it won't fit. The center console already rubs the seat and it is an already skinny console, so unless you want to make the seats more narrow and remove the 6 spd shifter, it aint happening. The handbrake is a safety device and must be easily accessable and urganamically correct in an emergency situation.If you look, most handbrakes start in front of the driver, not on the side of the driver. The more you have to set the brake back, the less leverage you also lose to pull on it.

Screw E-brake placement I would LOVE to own one of those bad boys!

Upon entering the building tomorrow, I will have him removed to the basement and flogged..........until he bleeds.

Does that make you feel better?


(8.2)

Actually, I'd feel better if the message got through.

The Cadillac CTS should either gain a hand operated emergency brake or lose the option of a manual transmission.

The Cadillac CTS should either gain a hand operated emergency brake or lose the option of a manual transmission.

Once again I see your post is well informed and you have your priorities in order. Did you lose your left leg in a hunting accident or something?

Much higher.


Here, let me see if I can amplify:

There's only one place to put a hand parking brake, and that's the center console. Corvette had one on the left side of the driver once, that sucked.

If you are going to take away my center console space to give me a hand brake instead of places to put CD's, or switches, or my cup of joe, or whatever, please GIVE ME A FOOT BRAKE INSTEAD.

If you're the sort of person that's more concerned with cupholders and storage space than a handbrake then you probably should be driving a slushbox anyway.

Hell, I used to engineer the darned things and they are about the #1 most unused item in a vehicle.

In a car with an automatic transmission, a hand operated parking brake is probably of very little use. In my A4 LS-1, I really don't have much use for any emergency brake. The same is true of my huge SUV. If you haven't noticed, you don't find a hand brake in any full sized SUV but also don't find any manual transmissions in full sized SUVs either.

Of course, if you actually have a manual transmission a handbrake can be very useful. I've done tens-of-thousands of miles in Europe and all of it was in manual transmissioned rental cars. I used the handbrake every day. If you have to stop on an inclined surface, whether it's a stoplight, a steep driveway or the ramp of a ferry boat - you'll be very sorry if you don't have a hand brake.

Once again I see your post is well informed and you have your priorities in order. Did you lose your left leg in a hunting accident or something?

Don't you own a CTS-V?

I can only assume that you've never had to stop your car on a steep incline.

Of course, maybe you have a [i]third leg[i] - something that will come in very handy if you're ever stopped on an upgrade in your CTS-V.

Are you really that ignorant? Do you think a foot brake is there for show? My driveway is a steep incline and I use the foot brake daily. Ya know what, it actually prevents my car from rolling into my garage door. What is your major malfuntion that prevents you from stepping on a foot e-brake?

Don't you own a CTS-V?

I can only assume that you've never had to stop your car on a steep incline.

Of course, maybe you have a [i]third leg[i] - something that will come in very handy if you're ever stopped on an upgrade in your CTS-V.
Where's the popcorn smiley? :D With all due respect and deference to the individual opinions being voiced in this thread, I gots'ta reiterate my previous post in this thread... that it's a total no-brainer to learn how to use the foot-operated e-brake to hold a manual transmission car on a hill!! Yes.. it sux to do this, and y'all can't do no handbrake turns... but like I said before.. IT AIN'T A DEAL BREAKER HERE! and the V is just one helluv'an awesome package!... e-brake placement notwithstanding!
... and thank goodness they are only available with a stick!
Just my $0.02

Best regardSS,

Elie

it won't fit. The center console already rubs the seat and it is an already skinny console, so unless you want to make the seats more narrow and remove the 6 spd shifter, it aint happening. The handbrake is a safety device and must be easily accessable and urganamically correct in an emergency situation.If you look, most handbrakes start in front of the driver, not on the side of the driver. The more you have to set the brake back, the less leverage you also lose to pull on it.
sounds like a lot of apologies to me. yes, if you try to fit an e-brake into the console as it already is, it won't work (besides that would be a "hack" anyway). If you design the console with that e-brake placement in mind, from the get go, you will have no trouble.

Exhibit A (http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/1F2427AD-7A84-43D8-9B33-A4A687AA7C2B/0/0447_09.jpg)

Keep in mind, that's on a previous generation with less interior room.

sounds like a lot of apologies to me. yes, if you try to fit an e-brake into the console as it already is, it won't work (besides that would be a "hack" anyway). If you design the console with that e-brake placement in mind, from the get go, you will have no trouble.

Exhibit A (http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/1F2427AD-7A84-43D8-9B33-A4A687AA7C2B/0/0447_09.jpg)

Keep in mind, that's on a previous generation with less interior room.

There ya go.

The voice of reason.


Anyway:

redzed - All I drive are manual transmission cars. I'm guessing that I've put quite a bit more miles down in cars with manual transmissions than you have. BTW: You DO NOT need the handbrake to prevent the vehicle from rolling on a hill. You can hold it with the clutch, service brake and throttle if you know what you're doing.

All: It's called a "PARKING BRAKE", not an "EMERGENCY BRAKE". Total braking system failures resulting in the need to use the parking brake as the service brake are highly improbable without serious owner neglect. Service braking systems are dual redundant - meaning that you have two complete losses of fluid from independant systems to have a total failure. The car will warn you well ahead of this happening. Furthermore, any cable-operated parking brake is many times less efficient than the hydraulically operated service brake.