Toyota to ease GM's pain

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0504/26/C01-162413.htm

I bought a Toyota. I didn't even think about GM cause I knew they'd treat me like sh!t, my car would die and the warranty work would be just as bad as my dad's last GM car. Even with their company going downhill they still can't see straight?

Yep, I saw that posted in the 5th gen forum. The people in there are very angry and insulted over this. lol

Dude, this has been posted, and besides that, later articles came out where the Toyota boss basically retracted his comments.

Have fun with your XRS, though... :blah:

BTW, what the hell does this article about Toyota have to do with "even though their company is going downhill, they can't see straight." ?? :confused:

Nate me and you both bought 2005 Toyotas. I'm sure if GM had their head on straight they would have gotten our business, but almost seems like they didn't want it with their POS dealership service, ugly and tacky cars, resale values, etc.
Oh well. :p

I know, call me an old man, but I've recently been tossing the idea around of buying one of those new Avalons. A limited with the rain-sensing wipers, keyless start, heated/cooled/ventilated seats, reclining rear seats, etc, would be pretty nice IMO.:cool:

Then the other side of me says "you're way too young for that... get an IS250 or IS350 when they come out this fall".

Then the last side of me says "your car now is 110% fine, you don't need to waste your money on a new car until your wife starts working full time".

*sigh*. It's a curse. I can never stop gawking over new cars.:D

GM needs to get their head out of their ass!

My boss said he wouldn't be suprised if GM went under by 2008.

I think I read somewhere way back when that a Vette costs GM like $5000 to build. Don't know how true that is though. If it is true then GM can come down on their markup for starters.

GM is ****ed because of labor unions. People getting paid $40 an hour to sit at an assembly line all day.

GM needs to get their head out of their ass!

My boss said he wouldn't be suprised if GM went under by 2008.

I think I read somewhere way back when that a Vette costs GM like $5000 to build. Don't know how true that is though. If it is true then GM can come down on their markup for starters.LMAO! Uh, no. If GM were making 45,000 profit on their vehicles, they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now... :no: And it isn't like they have trouble moving Corvettes, so evidently the "markup" on those is fair to enough people...

GM needs to get their head out of their ass!

My boss said he wouldn't be suprised if GM went under by 2008.

I think I read somewhere way back when that a Vette costs GM like $5000 to build. Don't know how true that is though. If it is true then GM can come down on their markup for starters.

there is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL that they build a Vette for 5,000

Well, even if it is not true, GM has vehicles that just fall apart at the seams. What about all the horror stories of the 97-99 Grand Prix's? I have read plenty of places where headlight ass. fall off and the interior is cheap and goes to hell pretty quick. Also the transmissions in them refered to as glass. I have heard the 00+ are built better though.

I wonder how much it cost to build one of those?

Edit - The only reason I know this is because I was looking into buying a GP GTP for awhile and did some research.

I don't think GM will go under, especially by 2008. They are the largest auto manufacturer in the worl and own other companies as well (allison transmission etc) They are in the worst spot they've been in for a LONG time but I don't think it's the end at all.

^Right. The LS6 ALONE would cost about that or even more.

^Right. The LS6 ALONE would cost about that or even more.

True, but I read that years ago a.k.a late Lt1/early LS1 days. I never said it was true BTW, just quoting what I remember reading.

Not accusing you, just trying to help you :D

When did this become www.sciontc.com?

Everyone is trading F-body's in on them?

All this time GM has been working to match Toyota in quality...who would thought it would take some neons, and a fart pipe to move cars?

Who needs horsepower....it has NEON's! :eek:

I know, call me an old man, but I've recently been tossing the idea around of buying one of those new Avalons. A limited with the rain-sensing wipers, keyless start, heated/cooled/ventilated seats, reclining rear seats, etc, would be pretty nice IMO.:cool:

My parents new Lexus has all that stuff, idk about the rear seats tho. It's really comfortable but it's really an old person car.

I don't think GM will go under, especially by 2008. They are the largest auto manufacturer in the worl and own other companies as well (allison transmission etc) They are in the worst spot they've been in for a LONG time but I don't think it's the end at all.

UAW contract is a noose around GM's neck.

They have kept making vehicles like the Astro, Blazer, and S-10 because it is cheaper to keep a plant running making unprofitable cars than it is to idle it and pay everyone to do nothing.

They have over a million vehicles overcapacity and can not shut down anything beyond Baltimore and Lindon because those were allowed in the last UAW contract.

GM asked the UAW to reopen the contract for healthcare relief, but the UAW refused. GM should have never signed the contract they have now, but last thing they could afford was a strike with how competive the market is.

Did you know GM spends $5.7 million on healthcare...roughly $1400 a vehicle? GM Union employees pay NO healthcare. In asking the union contract be reopened, GM wanted the union to agree for it's employees to pay the same percentage of their healthcare as GM salaries employees which is like 20% (still among the best in the private sector). The move would save GM something like 1-2 billion a year, but the union refused.

A question for Threxx and the other Toyotaites. How come Toyota has no where near the healthcare costs of GM? Is healthcare nationalized in Japan?

True, but I read that years ago a.k.a late Lt1/early LS1 days. I never said it was true BTW, just quoting what I remember reading.
That's still assinine...inflation hasn't increased THAT much in the past decade.

I don't know why Toyota spends so little on healthcare, but both of my parents work for Toyota at the Indiana plant, and they have awesome health, life, dental, prescription, etc, etc insurance and benefits. I mean awesome! (Next to no cost to them at all). Lets face it, go look at a Toyota Tacoma TRD and an S-10 ZR2 side by side and tell me which one is better. For the small difference in price, there is NO comparison. And there is no bias because my parents work at Toyota, in our driveway sits 3 F-bodies, 2 Tacomas, and 1 S-10.

One reason is Toyota doesnt have near the retirees that GM has. That alone is a significant portion of their health care problems. GM is basically paying health care on the group most likely to need expensive health care services and getting absolutely 0 production out of them. I dont fault the retirees though to a point, I find more fault with the skyrocketing health care costs in this country. The costs go up double or triple the the rate of inflation every year.

If Toyota made a full size truck (Tundra doesn't count, it is more like a 7/8's full size) and a RWD V8, I would buy only Toyota's for the forseeable future. ;)

I don't know why Toyota spends so little on healthcare, but both of my parents work for Toyota at the Indiana plant, and they have awesome health, life, dental, prescription, etc, etc insurance and benefits. I mean awesome! (Next to no cost to them at all). Lets face it, go look at a Toyota Tacoma TRD and an S-10 ZR2 side by side and tell me which one is better. For the small difference in price, there is NO comparison. And there is no bias because my parents work at Toyota, in our driveway sits 3 F-bodies, 2 Tacomas, and 1 S-10.


Well...I think you would want to look at a Colorado before an S-10.

If Toyota made a full size truck (Tundra doesn't count, it is more like a 7/8's full size) and a RWD V8, I would buy only Toyota's for the forseeable future. ;)


Why?

What facts are there that shows Toyota has a better vehicle in every segment. The new Impala SS has a 303HP V8 and gets better/same gas milage than the V6 Camry. Also the Impala has a great quality rep and a decent new interior and is cheaper. It may not be a looker, but neither is the Camry IMO.

I am not saying some Toyota's are not better, but I also think saying "just cause it has a T on the front it is the greatest thing known to man".


It is all perception....which is GM's problem more than quality at this point.

Why?

What facts are there that shows Toyota has a better vehicle in every segment. The new Impala SS has a 303HP V8 and gets better/same gas milage than the V6 Camry. Also the Impala has a great quality rep and a decent new interior and is cheaper. It may not be a looker, but neither is the Camry IMO.

I am not saying some Toyota's are not better, but I also think saying "just cause it has a T on the front it is the greatest thing known to man".


It is all perception....which is GM's problem more than quality at this point.Best quote so far.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a foreign truck.

I don't know why Toyota spends so little on healthcare, but both of my parents work for Toyota at the Indiana plant, and they have awesome health, life, dental, prescription, etc, etc insurance and benefits. I mean awesome! (Next to no cost to them at all). Lets face it, go look at a Toyota Tacoma TRD and an S-10 ZR2 side by side and tell me which one is better. For the small difference in price, there is NO comparison. And there is no bias because my parents work at Toyota, in our driveway sits 3 F-bodies, 2 Tacomas, and 1 S-10.

Obviously the S-10 ZR2 wins handsdown to the tacoma trd; was this a trick question or something?

It is all perception....which is GM's problem more than quality at this point.

Lexus/toyota also have the lowest reported problems per 100 vehicles of all the manufacture's.
So it's not perception. It's the truth.

Lexus/toyota also have the lowest reported problems per 100 vehicles of all the manufacture's.
So it's not perception. It's the truth.

Lexus props Toyota up on that. If you break it down by brand, and not whole company....there are a few GM brands that rank higher than Toyota brand (don't know them off the top of my head). Lexus on the other hand owns all in quality I guess :confused:.

I predict by 2008 , instead of GM going under .....CamaroZ28.com is gonna have to change their name to Importsrule.com .

What the hell is up with all the import nuthuggers on this site now . Its getting so farkin annoying I gotta sift thru all the Anti-GM crap on a GM enthusist site . Outside of the tech area's this site has really grown into a joke .

it's not just the worker pay and benefits. it's efficiency (http://www.radio.cz/en/article/63985)

efficiency (http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/29/C01-70799.htm) , efficiency (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105317) , build quality (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-10-17-gm-quality.htm), bad judgement, like investing in Saab, Suzuki, etc (http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/Driving_Forces/GMs_Alliance_Strategy.S192.A1621.html),

oh yeah, and efficiency (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_7_39/ai_105897602)

and building cars in Mexico (http://www.detnews.com/2005/specialreport/0502/13/A01-87977.htm)

now for the nightmare (http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?t=13545&page=1)

Obviously the S-10 ZR2 wins handsdown to the tacoma trd; was this a trick question or something?

:confused: Uh...look again. How many awards has the Tacoma won versus the S-10 or Colorado?

90 Z28SS Quote:

"I predict by 2008 , instead of GM going under .....CamaroZ28.com is gonna have to change their name to Importsrule.com .

What the hell is up with all the import nuthuggers on this site now . Its getting so farkin annoying I gotta sift thru all the Anti-GM crap on a GM enthusist site . Outside of the tech area's this site has really grown into a joke ."


If you're so annoyed then leave. No one forces you to read these threads, and no one here is an import nuthugger; we're just stating our oppinions --we have ours and you have yours. You evidently have nothing intelligent to add or you would have spoke your mind, so why did you even post? :rolleyes:

If you're so annoyed then leave. No one forces you to read these threads, and no one here is an import nuthugger; we're just stating our oppinions --we have ours and you have yours. You evidently have nothing intelligent to add or you would have spoke your mind, so why did you even post? :rolleyes:

Yep your right . I stated my opinon . Deal with it :)

What the hell is up with all the import nuthuggers on this site now . Its getting so farkin annoying I gotta sift thru all the Anti-GM crap on a GM enthusist site . Outside of the tech area's this site has really grown into a joke .

AMEN to that, 100%!

I don't post here much anymore. It's become a place for those bitter/jealous of GM vehicles and owners to carp and troll. Bleah. Time for the mods to lower a steel-toed boot on such baloney, IMHO. So... IS this a site for GM enthusiasts, or not? :confused:

Ran into this during the path O-taka's links took me down...
bb62, corvetteforum:
As an economist who has worked both inside and outside the auto industry, you should consider some of the following:

1. Because Toyota plant are highly automated, there is no way that any assembly facility would ever employ as many as 10,000 workers. You're overstating the requirement by a factor of about 3.
2. Assembling a vehicle inside the US adds relatively little value to the economy as a whole. Assembly costs add about 11% to the typical price of a vehicle. On the other hand, the engineering costs that were spent developing the vehicle add about 15% to the price of a vehicle. So what would you rather have in the US, $20 per hour jobs bolting together cars, or $40 per hour jobs designing them? What jobs would you rather have as a legacy for your children?
3. The remaining 6500 jobs (out of the 10K you initially referred to) are usually supplier jobs that are either already here (and thus no add to the overall US economy) or are transplanted (and managed) by non-Americans. Is that what you want?
4. Because a locally assembled vehicle from a foreign owned company typically includes about 50% American value (because of the myriad of parts usually shipped in from overseas) – it represents about half of a foreign built vehicle in its effect on the economy. If we are talking about a typical non-US based import car of about $20,000, because of how money flows through the economy (what an economist might call "turns"), leasing a car like that (with the assumption that you will lease a comparable Toyota throughout your life) puts one average American out of work PERMANENTLY. So if you buy a fully optioned American assembled Toyota truck in the $40K range – congratulations you just put one worker out of a job.
5. If GM (or Ford for that matter) can do the same thing in reverse by designing cars here and assembling them in countries like China – it keeps the high wage jobs HERE. Fiat was a mistake, but only from the perspective of hindsight. It may have been a good inroad to the Italian market (until Fiat crashed and burned in its own market).
6. While GM may or may not be dying, what is clear to me is that this penchant for buying foreign products and increasing the trade deficit beyond all reasonable means is having the effect of transporting capital out of this country to other countries. A budget deficit we can handle – it's money we owe ourselves (even if our children will be saddled with the debt). A trade deficit leaves us with nothing – all for the sake of instant gratification – a true prisoner's dilemma if you asked me.

When I needed to buy an inexpensive compact car, I only thought of one company, Toyota. Even though it doesn't excite me (my Matrix), it runs like a sewing machine, gets great gas mileage, and holds it's value. I don't see myself buying another GM product until they get all their problems worked out. I hated seeing plastic interior parts fall off, or rattle. I hated poor quality control on the entire vehicle, and poor resale value. BTW, you will never find passion driving a VVTi import. My Matrix's 180 hp is useless until you get above 5500 rpm. Hard keeping the thing buzzing that high in Hawaii traffic.

Obviously the S-10 ZR2 wins handsdown to the tacoma trd; was this a trick question or something?
:lol: Was that a joke?

I am now dumber for reading this thread...the first page must have killed at least 1,000,000 brain cells.

:rolleyes:

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:Dude, did the Toyota dealer where you bought your Corolla hand out free crack in the glove box or something?

:no:

Dude, did the Toyota dealer where you bought your Corolla hand out free crack in the glove box or something?

:no:

I think he has a point though.

Compare the imported GTO to the typical Pontiac or even GM offering. I haven't sat in the GTO, but it is said to be worlds better. Same goes for Ford and their overseas offerings. It just seems that the stuff they make for the overseas markets are better. Atleast in picture since i haven't seen any of these overseas market cars up close.

It does seem like the go cheaper on the N/A offering when you compare them to what they offer over in Asia, Europe, and down under.

And i think a lot of that stems from the simple fact that highly profitible trucks/SUV's aren't big sellers there so they are forced to invest more on their cars in those markets. Here, they've long neglected cars and have put most of their effort into trucks and SUV"s. That's now changing, but the damage (perception, etc...) has already been done.

Gotta say though, their newer stuff has improved greatly. I still don't think i'd buy domestic for a compact or mid-sized family car, but they're now in the process of putting out stuff that i might consider (Ford fusion and SVT version, Saturn Sky, Cobalt SS, etc...).

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:

Chevrolet Cobalt > Toyota Corolla

I've driven just about every small car for a week (rentals) and other than the Kia, the Toyota Corolla was the worst. Cheap interior, weak engine it felt over all sub-par compared to the competition. Toyota = Buick + hype.

GM knows at least one thing, and that is how to make bad as RWD cars too (C6, CTS, STS, GTO, Solstice) :bow: :metal:

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:

Ummm...

What is this ignorant drivel doing in the 5th gen forum????????????????

Numbnuts up here owns a VOLKSWAGEN and he wants to talk about quality.

Lemme alert you to another little fact, Sparky... see, this site is all about people who like FAST cars... and I'd like to point out that YOUR "CAR" has the same number of gears and less horsepower than my (dead stock, btw) MOTORCYCLE. Were aren't even going to address the fact that MY GRANDMOTHER'S BUICK will eat that little Toyota POS you own for lunch...

Simply putting that fact in your signature on an enthusiast site like this should result in an immediate perma-ban.

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:

This subject keeps getting brought up like GM is still using this practice . All of GM's cars that are most recent have done a major turnaround , whether or not you like the styling which is subjective . The interior materials used in the new G6 , Cobalt , HHR , Colorado/Canyon , Malibu ect. looks fantastic . The huge gap , rolled edges between panels , mouse fur cloth , mouse fur headliners , shiny unattractively grained plastic , lack of brightwork like chrome ringed guages ect. , are all gone . You can't hardly bash present day GM for cars still on the market that were leftover from the old ways of thinking , where is the logic in that :confused: :confused:

Alot of people need to remember , you are just now starting to see cars that were [b]fully[b] produced under the newer era GM . Cars like the CTS , SRX , grand prix , Malibu , trailblazer , Ion ect ect ect .....were all pretty far down the pipeline to finalazation when Lutz took over .

You can bash GM mechanical quality of the past , but all the current quality reports just dont support that anymore . Chevy and Buick are some of the highest rated domestic manufactures today .

Chevrolet Cobalt > Toyota Corolla

I've driven just about every small car for a week (rentals) and other than the Kia, the Toyota Corolla was the worst. Cheap interior, weak engine it felt over all sub-par compared to the competition. Toyota = Buick + hype.


I'll second that. I've rented them twice. They were the most miserable cars I've ever rented.

My boss said he wouldn't be suprised if GM went under by 2008.



If GM goes under, you, as a citizen in this country, better brace for one helluva an economic impact from it. Think about it. If one of the largest businesses in the U.S. were to go under, those on Wall St. would be a little more than worried....

When did this become www.sciontc.com?

Everyone is trading F-body's in on them?

All this time GM has been working to match Toyota in quality...who would thought it would take some neons, and a fart pipe to move cars?

Who needs horsepower....it has NEON's! :eek:

Because GM still hasn't matched Toyota in quality? The Cobalt comes in at more expensive than the tC when comparably equipped to the base model, and much slower as well. The reason the tC is an attractive car to many is it's a good vehicle, a good reputation for reliability because it's a Toyota, comes loaded out with most of the desirable options (mp3 player, rims, moonroof) instead of silly crap like OnStar. Also, I don't know anyone who's tCs have the light option in them, but stuff like a tasteful factory exhaust is a great option to offer consumers. Let me guess, I should have bought a Cavalier or a Focus just because they're American? To beat the HP on my car by any significant amount, I'd have to spend 22k or so on a Cobalt SS or an SRT-4. The car I decided to buy offered me all of the features I wanted, with very competitive HP for it's price range, and an awesome price. What GM product should I have bought for $17,000 when I needed a new car? An Aveo?

I predict by 2008 , instead of GM going under .....CamaroZ28.com is gonna have to change their name to Importsrule.com .

What the hell is up with all the import nuthuggers on this site now . Its getting so farkin annoying I gotta sift thru all the Anti-GM crap on a GM enthusist site . Outside of the tech area's this site has really grown into a joke .

GM abandoned me in 2002. I'm not going to go buy a Grand Prix or an old beat up used car just to support a company that doesn't feel like making a car for me anymore. It always seems to be the guys driving around in 10+ year old cars who are "die hard" and complaining about all the "lousy imports".

Some of us need a newer car, and can't drive a 3rd gen 60 miles to work every day.

If GM goes under, you, as a citizen in this country, better brace for one helluva an economic impact from it. Think about it. If one of the largest businesses in the U.S. were to go under, those on Wall St. would be a little more than worried....
In which case I would have to say
*tips his hat to the Unions* Well done fellas!

In which case I would have to say
*tips his hat to the Unions* Well done fellas!


AGREED.

This post was originally in the lounge and got moved here. All the people in the lounge own Scions and as Threxx put it "have no issue buying the emporer a new Komono".

They never come in the 5th Gen forum because they could give a rats as less.

This post was originally in the lounge and got moved here. All the people in the lounge own Scions and as Threxx put it "have no issue buying the emporer a new Komono".

They never come in the 5th Gen forum because they could give a rats as less.

Can't say I hang in the lounge, but I felt as a Scion tC owner on this forum I was the target of your post. :)

big business is just too damn greedy. the big businesses charge more per vehicle to make the shareholders happy with increased profit. with that it is harder for the blue collar worker to afford the cars he/she makes and in turn need to make more money per hour to afford things. all in all, it's just a big viscious circle. i'm not even going to touch the issue of health care.

big business is just too damn greedy. the big businesses charge more per vehicle to make the shareholders happy with increased profit. with that it is harder for the blue collar worker to afford the cars he/she makes and in turn need to make more money per hour to afford things. all in all, it's just a big viscious circle. i'm not even going to touch the issue of health care.:confused: :think:

I agree with making the shareholders happy, but I wouldn't call it "greedy" big business when GM is in the red so far this year, and Ford and DCX (and others) are making modest profits... (they are allowed to make profits, yes?).

This post was originally in the lounge and got moved here. All the people in the lounge own Scions and as Threxx put it "have no issue buying the emporer a new Komono".

They never come in the 5th Gen forum because they could give a rats as less.

Me? I don't remember saying that. Heck, I did a search (spelling it komono only brought this thread, and spelling it kimono brought up only one other thread with nothing to do with cars at all)

but almost seems like they didn't want it with their POS dealership service, ugly and tacky cars, resale values, etc.
Oh well. :p

Wow, you bought a :lol: Toyota Corolla :lol: and you call gm cars ugly and tacky :D

When you're ready to spend more than $12,000 on a new car, come and give us your expert input. Until then enjoy your :lol: Toyota Corolla :lol:

GM builds their vehicles for North American use with inferior quality as apposed to the ones they export which are built a lot better.
What does that say to you?
That GM "can't" build a high quality car? Nah.
I think it's more that GM knows it's going to sell them in North America and they don't care how cheap they're made, they know some poor sap is gonna buy 'em.
Doesn't that kind of make ya upset that GM makes cars for foreigners with better quality then their own people? :shrug:

How did you become such an expert on cars when you drove a 98 VW and now you drive a freakin Corolla?

Do spend your days test driving cars? By looking at your car purchases, I'm sure you don't have much experience with anything worth talking about.

Wow, you bought a :lol: Toyota Corolla :lol: and you call gm cars ugly and tacky :D

When you're ready to spend more than $12,000 on a new car, come and give us your expert input. Until then enjoy your :lol: Toyota Corolla :lol:

You can laugh cause I really don't give a sh!t. If I want to sell my car in let's say, 2 years, I would lose next to nothing on it because the resale is so high. Can you say that about a GM car?
Or how about the fact that Toyotas have a reputation for not f*cking breaking? GM is known throughout the whole automotive industry as being a POS. Didn't your "mighty GM" just recall a few million vehicles for something as simple as a seatbelt design flaw? What is this, the 50s? :rolleyes:

I refuse to be loyal to a company like GM who has its head too far in its ass. I refuse to buy a GM because I know it would lose all its value in 20 minutes when the door panels decide to fall off.
When I can have this car for 10 years with minimal (if any) problems and still a strong resale value, I'll come out ahead.

The funny thing is Toyota is a good investment and you're too stupid to see it. If I kept my Corolla for 4 years, I could trade it in at that time for a damn 05 Escalade if I wanted. Straight across too, because they'd both be worth the same amount of $$$ in 4 years. :D

GM cars are LOW quality. Because you can't see that doesn't mean other people have to suffer for it. GM's service is horrible, too. So maybe you should laugh at yourself for buying a car from a company that charged you upwards of 24 thousand for a car that won't be worth its weight in dust. :p

Keep laughing though, "Oh haha he bought a Corolla," cause when GM tells you to F*ck off and you can't sell your car for enough to buy an 88 Tercel...

And killerTA, how are you such an expert of what's quality if you drive an F-body?

And killerTA, how are you such an expert of what's quality if you drive an F-body?

:Owned:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0504/26/C01-162413.htm

I bought a Toyota. I didn't even think about GM cause I knew they'd treat me like sh!t, my car would die and the warranty work would be just as bad as my dad's last GM car. Even with their company going downhill they still can't see straight?

Are you really that retarded? No offense...just curious if that really is your un-biased, all-knowing opinion...

Sorry if that's your opinion, but that really is the stupidest thing I've read on here yet. I'll go home now in my nice 4 year old GP that hasn't given me a moment's trouble, thanks.

You can laugh cause I really don't give a sh!t. If I want to sell my car in let's say, 2 years, I would lose next to nothing on it because the resale is so high. Can you say that about a GM car?
Or how about the fact that Toyotas have a reputation for not f*cking breaking? GM is known throughout the whole automotive industry as being a POS. Didn't your "mighty GM" just recall a few million vehicles for something as simple as a seatbelt design flaw? What is this, the 50s? :rolleyes:

I refuse to be loyal to a company like GM who has its head too far in its ass. I refuse to buy a GM because I know it would lose all its value in 20 minutes when the door panels decide to fall off.
When I can have this car for 10 years with minimal (if any) problems and still a strong resale value, I'll come out ahead.

The funny thing is Toyota is a good investment and you're too stupid to see it. If I kept my Corolla for 4 years, I could trade it in at that time for a damn 05 Escalade if I wanted. Straight across too, because they'd both be worth the same amount of $$$ in 4 years. :D

GM cars are LOW quality. Because you can't see that doesn't mean other people have to suffer for it. GM's service is horrible, too. So maybe you should laugh at yourself for buying a car from a company that charged you upwards of 24 thousand for a car that won't be worth its weight in dust. :p

Keep laughing though, "Oh haha he bought a Corolla," cause when GM tells you to F*ck off and you can't sell your car for enough to buy an 88 Tercel...

Nevermind, don't answer that. You really are that retarded. Follow the heard mentality. Yeah, GM cars have real crappy resale. My GP has 47% resale after 4 years...Honda Accord? 49%. Yeah...GM sucks.

I also have news for you. A Corolla is a Prizm, as you know. I get '02 Prizms at the auction all day long for 6k. Sold for about 14-15k new. Yeah, they have great resale. And in case you're wondering, a like Corolla sells wholesale for $1,000 more, so it isn't the fact that one says Chevy and one says Toyota. With unbiased opinions like yours, no wonder this country will be out of work in 15 years when we don't actually MAKE anything anymore...

Actually the Corolla is built in Canada, just like the F-body. :D
So you can say whateverrr you want about us but in the end you're supporting Canadian workers. Remember GM builds a LOT of their vehicles in Canada, taking jobs away from Americans. Then makes AMERICANS buy the Canadian-built cars. :lol:
Honda and Toyota base a lot of their plants in the US of A. Isn't GM chanelling out a lot of their engines and parts to the Chinese? And making a lot of the new cars rebadged Korean vehicles?

You can laugh cause I really don't give a sh!t. If I want to sell my car in let's say, 2 years, I would lose next to nothing on it because the resale is so high. Can you say that about a GM car?
Or how about the fact that Toyotas have a reputation for not f*cking breaking? GM is known throughout the whole automotive industry as being a POS. Didn't your "mighty GM" just recall a few million vehicles for something as simple as a seatbelt design flaw? What is this, the 50s? :rolleyes:

I refuse to be loyal to a company like GM who has its head too far in its ass. I refuse to buy a GM because I know it would lose all its value in 20 minutes when the door panels decide to fall off.
When I can have this car for 10 years with minimal (if any) problems and still a strong resale value, I'll come out ahead.

The funny thing is Toyota is a good investment and you're too stupid to see it. If I kept my Corolla for 4 years, I could trade it in at that time for a damn 05 Escalade if I wanted. Straight across too, because they'd both be worth the same amount of $$$ in 4 years. :D

GM cars are LOW quality. Because you can't see that doesn't mean other people have to suffer for it. GM's service is horrible, too. So maybe you should laugh at yourself for buying a car from a company that charged you upwards of 24 thousand for a car that won't be worth its weight in dust. :p

Keep laughing though, "Oh haha he bought a Corolla," cause when GM tells you to F*ck off and you can't sell your car for enough to buy an 88 Tercel...

Try and find me a 4 year old Escalade for the price you got your car for. It is impossible. For a 2002 you are still looking at low 30's for a high mileage one.

Thanks for helping make my point mr00jimbo :rolleyes:

Why don't you run along now and go back to be with your fellow import worshippers.

Thanks for helping make my point mr00jimbo :rolleyes:

Why don't you run along now and go back to be with your fellow import worshippers.

What's your point? Due to inferior quality, reliability and horrible dealership treatment, former GM enthusiasts are turning to other companies for a quality car?
Sorry that GM suffered a 1.1 billion dollar loss in the first quarter, but it's their fault. F*ck it I ain't gonna buy a GM since the dealerships don't give a f*ck about the customers, the recalls are plentiful and the resale seems pretty bad.

Due to inferior quality, reliability and horrible dealership treatment, former GM enthusiasts are turning to other companies for a quality car?

My point? You cynicism is not welcome here. If you hate GM vehicles and GM dealers as much as you say - you know where the door is. Stop carping and moaning about it and hit the road. Or don't you get enough attention on the import discussion forums? :cry:

ZERO problem with the 4 GM vehicles I've owned over the past 15 years...wish I could say the same for my wife's Honda. Yay imports :rolleyes:

A Corolla :lol: Even if I fed off the false pretense that my car if falling apart as you say, I'd take the risk in order to not be seen in that thing.

What's your point? Due to inferior quality, reliability and horrible dealership treatment, former GM enthusiasts are turning to other companies for a quality car?
Sorry that GM suffered a 1.1 billion dollar loss in the first quarter, but it's their fault. F*ck it I ain't gonna buy a GM since the dealerships don't give a f*ck about the customers, the recalls are plentiful and the resale seems pretty bad.

Blah...this thread is a waste.

It is something GM to be concerned about though if this how youth views GM.

The funny thing is Toyota is a good investment and you're too stupid to see it. If I kept my Corolla for 4 years, I could trade it in at that time for a damn 05 Escalade if I wanted. Straight across too, because they'd both be worth the same amount of $$$ in 4 years. :D


KBB Private Party value for a 2002 Corolla LE with 50K miles:
$9,590 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.TN;671758;TN187&37064;sed+p&722;Toyota;2002%20C orolla&4;TO;A1&&&)

KBB Private Party value for a 2002 Escalade with 50K miles:
$31,720 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.TN;940117;TN187&37064;suv+p&723;Cadillac;2002%2 0Escalade&4;CS;A1)

STFU you troll. :Owned:

KBB Private Party value for a 2002 Corolla LE with 50K miles:
$9,590 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.TN;671758;TN187&37064;sed+p&722;Toyota;2002%20C orolla&4;TO;A1&&&)

KBB Private Party value for a 2002 Escalade with 50K miles:
$31,720 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.TN;940117;TN187&37064;suv+p&723;Cadillac;2002%2 0Escalade&4;CS;A1)

STFU you troll. :Owned:
Uhhh... Why don't you try comparing some similar vehicles? One has a sticker price that's over $20,000 more than the other. :rolleyes:

Check a Cavalier and see how it's value drops like a rock with a jet engine on it.

last time i checked my 04 Colorado Sport with like 7k miles on it was worth 11k. sticker price was 25k. ya thats not dropping like a rock. ive owned it since july of last year (aka not even a year) and value has dropped over HALF. :rolleyes:

The other guy specifically used a Corolla and Escalade in his example, incompetent.
Maybe you don't have common sense enough to decipher a comment made in jest, tard.

Many GM vehicles drop in value faster than certain other comparable vehicles. Malibu to Camry, Cavalier to Corolla.

I think it's funny how GM lures you guys in by telling you you'll be gay to own an import. That seems to be the only reason you guys buy them. "Well my Blazer squeaks and rattles and leaks power steering fluid and is in the shop more than it isn't but uh....at least I'm not GAY!" :lol:
Maybe if some of you solved your insecurities you'd be further ahead and more inclined to make better automotive descisions. I bought a Toyota because GM's resale value was the sh!ts, their quality was sub-par and the reputation of any of their service departments around here is a pretty unpleasent experience. When people hear "Corolla" they get turned off, but go sit in one, drive one, and then make your choice. I'm not talking about a base-model CE rental car, either. Go drive an XRS, or at least ride in one. I got a lot of sh!t for buying one from ALL my friends but once they SAW it and rode in it they all were quick to change their opinions.

But nonetheless, GM thrives off ignorant car buyers who don't seem to care that their cars are worth jack sh!t within 2-3 years, it's the only reason they're still around.

Didn't your "mighty GM" just recall a few million vehicles for something as simple as a seatbelt design flaw? What is this, the 50s? :rolleyes:

Errr , I rather have voluntary recall over a design flaw in a seatbelt , than toyota's little sludge problem with their engines ...oooops :D What year was it again. A good friend of mine is a Lexus tech so please don't preach your high and mighty . The guys that are supposed to be the ever so high and mighty sure do complain alot about having to do so much warranty work . Lexus's customer service second to absolutely no one , but the cars arent exactly trouble free ;) ;) ;) We shouldnt even go back to the early to mid 90's ES 300's ooooor the Current RX line , hahaha . The same tech I was talkign about earlier has already 2 engine replacements in the current gen RX , its been out how long . Looks like they not only targeted german engineering ( their implacations in their commercials , not mine ) , but also there shoty quality record as well . Do a little homework before u cast a godly halo over Toyota . Their average , hey how bout that :)


When I can have this car for 10 years with minimal (if any) problems and still a strong resale value, I'll come out ahead.

My 97 bonneville SSE has been in my family since new . 150,xxx miles and nothing but routine maint. Again, kinda blows your pos theory a lil .

People like u kill me dude . Your about as funny as the girl somehwere in this forum within the past week talking bout how her Matrix and its vaulted quality and resale over GM vehicles . Hmm , 1/2 your car was designed by GM :D And Im sure that deal woulda went over a lil better if an ecotec was under the hood , rather than toyota's torqueless 9K rpm 4 bangers .

But nonetheless, GM thrives off ignorant car buyers who don't seem to care that their cars are worth jack sh!t within 2-3 years, it's the only reason they're still around. :rolleyes:
Ignorant is: buying an Import b/c you still think it's 1985 and Import's are superior. ;)
September 15, 2004
Toyota Motor Corp., Asia's largest automaker, said Tuesday it will recall about 646,000 vehicles starting today to fix the brakes in four models.
TOYOTA / TUNDRA 2004-2005

Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 05V123000 Recall Date : MAR 28, 2005
Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 5726
THE EXHAUST PIPE FLANGE MAY RUB AGAINST THE RIGHT REAR BRAKE LINE WHICH COULD CAUSE BRAKE FLUID LEAKAGE. THIS COULD LEAD TO AN INCREASE OF VEHICLE STOPPING DISTANCE, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
TOKYO April 12, 2005; Yuri Kageyama writing for the AP reported that Mitsubishi Motors Corp., a Japanese automaker whose sales have plunged on recurring recalls, has announced another recall affecting 179,000 cars for a defect in the air conditioning system that caused at least two injuries.

The recall reported to the government Tuesday is the latest in a spate of recalls for the money-losing Tokyo-based automaker. Mitsubishi Motors' reputation has been badly tarnished after acknowledging five years ago it had systematically hidden auto defects for decades.

:rolleyes:
Ignorant is: buying an Import b/c you still think it's 1985 and Import's are superior. ;)
:lol: 1985 was when everyone still thought domestics were superior... Get it straight.

It wasn't until after 90 that GM realized they'd better start actually trying to not make crappy cars, because they saw that the Japanese automakers were going to mop the floor with them. Until that point they had lulled themselves into figuring people would gladly buy their throwaway cars just because they were stupid. (Or liked to support Mexicans and Canadians with jobs)

Of course making crappy cars would never turn some of you away. LOL

This entire thread is retarded. I don't know why it got moved to the 5th gen forum, since it has nothing to do with future production, but it did. Anyway, each of the companies have thier advantages and disadvantages, and everyone wants a certain car for a certain reason. I have owned both GM and Toyota, and they each have their advantages.

Toyota: My Tacoma was nearly bullet proof...and thats a lot less than I can say for my S-10.
GM: Find Toyota with the kind of power that my T/A puts down stock.

Again, this is only what I have experienced, which is not every case out there. I CAN say that I have had my complaints with both manufacturers though. In the end, people buy the car they want and the car the they think will be the best choice for them...people also make mistakes, but we live and learn from those mistakes. Whether GM or Toyota is actually better, no one can determine, because we each have different goals from our automobiles. My grandma wouldn't know what to do with 350HP, and I wouldn't know what to do with a Toyota Corolla either, but thats exactly what I mean. Everyone has different goals and expectations from an automobile. BTW name calling is for 2nd graders on the playground. :no: Grow up a little guys.

I also have news for you. A Corolla is a Prizm, as you know. I get '02 Prizms at the auction all day long for 6k. Sold for about 14-15k new. Yeah, they have great resale. And in case you're wondering, a like Corolla sells wholesale for $1,000 more, so it isn't the fact that one says Chevy and one says Toyota. With unbiased opinions like yours, no wonder this country will be out of work in 15 years when we don't actually MAKE anything anymore...

The previous generation Prizm and Corolla were very closely related- some small differences in dimensions, suspension setup, and interior details, but all in all kinda like the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe venture today, except much less differentiation between the two with the Prizm and Corolla.

Anyhow.. 2002 was the last shared model year when the Corolla was ground-up redesigned and the Prizm was discontinued.

Anyhow.. the Corolla is a Toyota design from which GM tried rebranding and marketing. It is not a GM design that Toyota rebranded and remarketed. Thus, a used Prizm still has crappy resale value, but actually allows for pretty good reliability. Probably one of the better used car values out there if you're in the market for a small car.

The previous generation Prizm and Corolla were very closely related- some small differences in dimensions, suspension setup, and interior details, but all in all kinda like the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe venture today, except much less differentiation between the two with the Prizm and Corolla.

Anyhow.. 2002 was the last shared model year when the Corolla was ground-up redesigned and the Prizm was discontinued.

Anyhow.. the Corolla is a Toyota design from which GM tried rebranding and marketing. It is not a GM design that Toyota rebranded and remarketed. Thus, a used Prizm still has crappy resale value, but actually allows for pretty good reliability. Probably one of the better used car values out there if you're in the market for a small car.


I don't have to tell my Prizm/Corolla story again do I? I really am too lazy to type it....

I don't have to tell my Prizm/Corolla story again do I? I really am too lazy to type it....

Don't even bother.

It's like arguing with the Germans in 1941 and trying to tell them Hitler was a doofus. You can yell and scream and use logic and point out facts but it ain't making a dent.

They are going to remain with their ignorance for as long as they live and objective facts will just get in the way.

BTW - note to all:

Resale, in practical terms, should be calculated off of actual transaction prices and not MSRP.

I don't have to tell my Prizm/Corolla story again do I? I really am too lazy to type it....

I'll type it for you (shortened):
There was a defect complaint or two that the Prizm commonly had complaints of that nobody complained about with the Corolla, and thus this is proof that people ignore defects in Toyotas because they are Toyotas, and complain about them in Chevys because they are Chevys.

Fact 1: Only about half the Corollas sold were built alongside the Prizm. The other half were built in a Toyota-only plant in Canada (where they are all made today).

Fact 2: It's very common for two nearly identical cars that are even made in the same plant to have different problems. Why? Different workers manning the line and different machines that may have different calibration issues or slightly different methods of assembly. Our Toyota 4Runner was made side by side in the same plant that makes the GX470. The GX470 still has its own unique list of common complaints compared to the 4Runner. They share some, but they have their own unique ones as well, despite the fact that the unique ones are regarding equipment that is, or is close to identical between the two models.

Fact 3: Many of their interior and exterior parts were unique to each vehicle as is evident by any close visual inspection as well as analyzing the fact that the Corolla has about 1.5cubic square feet greater interior volume or the fact that the Prizm is about an inch longer while the Corolla sits about half an inch taller, and the Corolla, option for option is 50 to 100 pounds heavier depending on the year/generationin in question.

Observation 1: Typically from what I've seen, people who buy their cars for reliability and quality are MORE likely to complain than if they just buy a car because they are a 'fan' of the brand and/or wanted to buy domestic (like more people probably did for the Prizm). I sure as hell know that's true when it comes to luxury cars. The things I've seen/heard of people complaining about at my Lexus dealership would make any Toyota or Chevy dealership in the country break out into laughter and then shortly after tell you to go home.

OK well the soon to be wife just called and apparently I need to actually get some stuff around the house - so I gotta cut this short, but the point is that there were differences between the two, and many times those 'small' differences are enough to make objective differences in complaint surveys and such. If it's any consolation, the consumer reviews of the Corolla and Prizm (both generations) on Edmunds and carpoint where I was checking were just about the same (Prizm led by a tenth on carpoint, Corolla led by a tenth on edmunds)

:rolleyes:
Ignorant is: buying an Import b/c you still think it's 1985 and Import's are superior. ;)

First of all, nobody's arguing in Mitsubishi's favor. Mazda, Mitsubishi and in some cases Nissan, are not up to par to Toyota. Remember nobody's saying "OMG iMpOrTz = teh R0zorz!!!"
Toyota is a hard-working company, hands down. Their success has nothing to do with the fact that their Japanese. Other Japanese cars have a high reputation because Honda and Toyota worked hard to make quality products, and the other companies milk that reputation. So not ALL Japanese cars are good, but Toyota is. It has nothing to do with them being Japanese, it has something to do with them being good.

Also when referring to the Tundra recall...Toyota turned to GM to ask them for help to build a full-sized pickup. You can attribute some of the Tundra's success to GM, but share some of the recalls too.

As for somebody mentioning complains on a Lexus...
Keep in mind when people buy high-price, luxury vehicles, they're expectations are through the f*cking roof. A lot of rich people complain about a lot.

Bottom line: A company called Toyota builds quality products that will last a long time with minimal work. It has nothing to do with them being Japanese. If Toyota was exactly the same, churned out the SAME cars yet was started by an American, then nobody here would have a hard time defending its success.
My 2 cents...

I think it's funny how GM lures you guys in by telling you you'll be gay to own an import.
When did GM do that? Are we all hypnotized through their commercials? What a moronic statement.



I bought a Toyota because GM's resale value was the sh!ts, their quality was sub-par and the reputation of any of their service departments around here is a pretty unpleasent experience.
I congratulate you for making a practical and well thought out decision. You must be a very responsible young man to buy such a fantastic car as a COROLLA :D ........boring and lame as hell but very responsible!

I know this whole board is very jealous of your corolla and most of us will be trading in our cool cars for one very soon because in 5 years you'll have saved a whole $1000 or $2000 in resale value. I for one am not too worried about a few dollars over such a long period. I'd rather have a hot car than a Toyota.

When people hear "Corolla" they get turned off.
Best statement you've made in this whole thread!

You'd rather own a hot car rather than a Toyota? That's a pretty ignorant statement. Have you forgotten the MK4 Supra, MkII MR2 turbo, etc.? Associating every Toyota with a beige base-model Corolla is like thinking about the Pontiac Sunfire and it's 80's Sci-Fi design any time your Trans Am drives by.
Right now there's nothing to compare the f-body to in the Toyota lineup so I can't go into the performance aspect - then again, the F-body itself is gone too. Had there been something more "sporty" avaialble I would have picked it up, but I did need something practicle and that's what I got.
I'm not trying to compare my Corolla to an F-body, nor am I trying to compare Japanese to American, I'm trying to compare Toyota to GM. GM still kicks Mitsubishi's, Mazda's, and apparently Nissan's ass in quality but that's not saying a lot. Though they've moved up the ladder that they should have never been down in the first place, their less expensive model lineup is sub par in every concernable catigory.

Think about what I need the car for; reliable and practical transportation to and from work/school. While I was looking I found this one, with four wheel discs, ABS, a sunroof and will run very low 15s. It's not a race car, it's a sporty daily driver.
The only thing GM seemed to offer was the J-body. On my friend's rental with only 30,000 clicks (maybe 18,000 miles?) the turn signal was already broken, the interior was falling apart and the seat rails were already loose.

I would love to buy a GM and support the American economy, but like Threxx said, I'm not going to do it because I feel sorry for them, I'm only going to do it when I feel they deserve to make profit. And How is buying an American company so patriotic over an "import" ?
Doesn't GM make a lot of its small cars in Korea and bring them over as rebaged Daewoos?
But for every Civic or Camry you see and yell "ricer" to, Americans are given jobs to assemble those cars, which are built here. Think about the Camry being the best selling American car. That means a LOT of Americans benefit from having jobs building them. Same with every civic you see, or whatever is out there. The Camry, Tacoma, Tundra, Avalon, etc. they all seem like cars designed FOR Americans, unless you can see middle-class Japanese really finding much use for a big V8 Tundra in rush hour traffic. :lol:

It seems to be catistrophical when a GM car makes it 200,000+ miles along with most of its original parts. Try bragging about a Toyota like that and nobody will care, they're all like that. Even when I was so set on buying an F-body and got a ride in somebody's beater Tercel, I was looking at the interior like "Pfff I bet this POS is a rattle trap" and turned out to be astonished by how well and tight everything on a 12 year old car with countless mileage turned out!

And KillerTA, I'm not talking about "saving a thousand" over a long term. I'm talking about owning a car that if I financed, at any time I could sell it and AT LEAST break even. I don't want to be buying a car that will lose money faster than the payments could be made on it.

Remember resale value is set for a reason.

I'll type it for you (shortened):
There was a defect complaint or two that the Prizm commonly had complaints of that nobody complained about with the Corolla, and thus this is proof that people ignore defects in Toyotas because they are Toyotas, and complain about them in Chevys because they are Chevys.

Fact 1: Only about half the Corollas sold were built alongside the Prizm. The other half were built in a Toyota-only plant in Canada (where they are all made today).

Fact 2: It's very common for two nearly identical cars that are even made in the same plant to have different problems. Why? Different workers manning the line and different machines that may have different calibration issues or slightly different methods of assembly. Our Toyota 4Runner was made side by side in the same plant that makes the GX470. The GX470 still has its own unique list of common complaints compared to the 4Runner. They share some, but they have their own unique ones as well, despite the fact that the unique ones are regarding equipment that is, or is close to identical between the two models.

Fact 3: Many of their interior and exterior parts were unique to each vehicle as is evident by any close visual inspection as well as analyzing the fact that the Corolla has about 1.5cubic square feet greater interior volume or the fact that the Prizm is about an inch longer while the Corolla sits about half an inch taller, and the Corolla, option for option is 50 to 100 pounds heavier depending on the year/generationin in question.

Observation 1: Typically from what I've seen, people who buy their cars for reliability and quality are MORE likely to complain than if they just buy a car because they are a 'fan' of the brand and/or wanted to buy domestic (like more people probably did for the Prizm). I sure as hell know that's true when it comes to luxury cars. The things I've seen/heard of people complaining about at my Lexus dealership would make any Toyota or Chevy dealership in the country break out into laughter and then shortly after tell you to go home.

OK well the soon to be wife just called and apparently I need to actually get some stuff around the house - so I gotta cut this short, but the point is that there were differences between the two, and many times those 'small' differences are enough to make objective differences in complaint surveys and such. If it's any consolation, the consumer reviews of the Corolla and Prizm (both generations) on Edmunds and carpoint where I was checking were just about the same (Prizm led by a tenth on carpoint, Corolla led by a tenth on edmunds)


Just so you know....the complaint was an itermitant whine/resonance at certain RPM's from the powertrain (a Toyota design flaw). I would imagine the powertrains for all Corrolas/Camry's were made in the same factory.
GM had hundreds of complaints on this...Toyota had none.

Matter of fact, GM has many more complaints on the Prizm than Toyota did on the Corolla even thoughh GM actually made improvments to the car such as upgraded padding.

There have been books like "Car" that touch on this.

A Malibu has something BS like a radio issue, and some assclown is in the dealership crying about how his daddy's Vega was a POS, but despite this, he thought he would GM a try, and now he will never buy GM again because his radio don't work. And GM better pay for it, because it is not his fault their car is a POS.

However an Accord buyer can nuke his trans, and bring it in smiling while he signs the $2K repair bill because "no one else I know has problems with their Honda....so I must have done something wrong". He is also thinking "I sure can't tell anyone about this because I would look really stupid if they knew I was hamfisted enough to break a Honda!".

Don't even get me started about how you see new American car's at Wal Mart getting oil changes all the time, but no imports because they all "need the dealership maintenance".

Matter of fact, GM has many more complaints on the Prizm than Toyota did on the Corolla even thoughh GM actually made improvments to the car such as upgraded padding.

There have been books like "Car" that touch on this.

A Malibu has something BS like a radio issue, and some assclown is in the dealership crying about how his daddy's Vega was a POS, but despite this, he thought he would GM a try, and now he will never buy GM again because his radio don't work. And GM better pay for it, because it is not his fault their car is a POS.

However an Accord buyer can nuke his trans, and bring it in smiling while he signs the $2K repair bill because "no one else I know has problems with their Honda....so I must have done something wrong". He is also thinking "I sure can't tell anyone about this because I would look really stupid if they knew I was hamfisted enough to break a Honda!".



THAT is what GM has to fight....ignorance among the general public.

okay.. i just read some more about this..

So if I understand correctly, Toyota may want to raises prices, so they could just make more money off cars... vs having the price of their cars raised by GM getting the Japanese gov to remove the threat of intervention that would raise the yen's value, causing the prices of Japanese cars to rise because of currency rates (in which Toyota doesn't really make any more money than its now)


taken from carconnection


GM's argument is that while the Japanese government hasn't directly intervened to limit the increase in the value of the yen since the end of 2003, its vague threat of intervention has kept the yen priced below its true market value. GM wants even the threat of intervention removed for good so the yen can float to a higher level, the Times account suggested.

The disclosure of GM's activity on Capitol Hill also provides some important context for the cryptic comments from top executives at Toyota about raising prices to help GM. Toyota executives clearly had gotten wind of Wagoner's comments and decided to launch a pre-emptive strike of sorts before GM's campaign picked up momentum.

BTW - note to all:

Resale, in practical terms, should be calculated off of actual transaction prices and not MSRP.Thank you Pace, this is the only quote that matters in this entire thread in terms of resale. It's so obvious, yet these people just don't get it. Geese.

As it goes for the quality issue, look at the facts, as so many have pointed out already, and you will find that GM quality is no worse (but IS better) than the imports they are being compared to. End of story.