right on the AOL welcome page "GM MASSIVE RECALL"

knew it was going to be front page news...WTF...yup the press has got it out for american brands..

what recently for imports was a major recall??? cus I know it was on here but didnt hear a peep about it in the news...

What, you don't know by now? American cars are junk, and will always be. Nothing compares to an import. Toyota, Honda, BMW et al, are all perfect cars. No one can take that away from them. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

Yeah it does get a bit ridiculous how the media reports its news. Hopefully GM, Ford and Chrylser can keep it going and improve upon ots products to maybe someday get rid of this perception.

well its not just that its the fact that when toyota or honda has a major recall it gets a side not or little mention...yet GM gets front headline

well its not just that its the fact that when toyota or honda has a major recall it gets a side not or little mention...yet GM gets front headline

Oh trust me, I know that. And it pisses the hell out of me. Maybe GM, Ford and Chrysler have some of the blame for putting out average at best cars during the 80's and early 90's and are fighting an uphill battle. But what gets me is it seems (well with Mercedes and BWM for the most part, maybe due to more elctrical gizmos) that the imports haven't been as well built as before yet they get a pass. Just doesn't make sense.

:rolleyes:

when was the last time honda or toyota recalled over 2 million vehicles in the united states?

We all know the off-shore automakers rarely, if ever, get publicity for recalls but this is 2 million vehicles for GM...it's a big story and it will be played out as such. Gotta just suck it up and move on...

We all know the off-shore automakers rarely, if ever, get publicity for recalls but this is 2 million vehicles for GM...it's a big story and it will be played out as such. Gotta just suck it up and move on...

Yeah. 2mill is a lot, and front-page worthy. And GM has been on the front-page a lot this year, and so they're being scrutinzed. Just gotta suck it up, and make sure you don't crush anymore eggshells. Just how sensative things are at the moment.

This is just an ugly ugly fugly year for GM.

I remember a big Mercedes recall recently that made headlines.

gotta love this forum

if GM made a car named "the inferno" that was designed to explode on impact, and was advertised as such, you'd get people saying "media bias" and the same crap you see above whenever some review came out that said it was a dangerous car ... :rolleyes:

gotta love this forum


Yup, that's why you come here so much, right?

Who hoo! This will put GM that much closer to my BUY price!

Yup, that's why you come here so much, right?
yep, its friggin hilarious :)

I think your all crackheads...honestly. If imports are sooo much better than domestics you got to wonder what causing the quality to be soooo much better. Hell for my first car I'm driving a 97 Land Rover Disc and the only reason its so cheap was because the previous owner couldn't drive 10 miles without something breaking. The previous owner before him payed to have the entire engine redone and its still crapping out. My friends Toyota Camry is the same way, exactly.

Now on the other hand we have a Ford Excursion (1998), Ford Explorer (01), Ford Expedition (98), GMC Suburban (94?) and the only thing we have had real problems on was the Expedition and that was with the air-ride suspension, Im not really suprised. Honestly I cant point out 1 reason to be biased either way. If I was in the market for a economy car, it would be a Honda or Toyota probably, Performance would be a Chevy, Truck would be a Ford, Luxury would be a BMW or I kinda like those Chryslers.

you know, even though it bugs me that the domestic automakers get more negative press, the whining about it here is beginning to sounds like that Kris Rock comedy bit. IT'S THE MEDIA.

it's not just "the media." the newsflash on all this is that a recall is newsworthy material and "the media" is just doing it's job by reporting it. the fact that they tend to sometimes under-report foreign makers' recalls is a symptom of America today. we are more critical of ourselves than anyone else. and frankly the fact that Ford and GM still tend to sell more cars here than any other automaker means that overall their recalls would tend to effect more people therefore, they deserve more media scrutiny. When Toyota passes Ford and GM as having the most market share in NA, don't think for a second "the media" won't shift their eye more toward Toyota.

you know, even though it bugs me that the domestic automakers get more negative press, the whining about it here is beginning to sounds like that Kris Rock comedy bit. IT'S THE MEDIA.

it's not just "the media." the newsflash on all this is that a recall is newsworthy material and "the media" is just doing it's job by reporting it. the fact that they tend to sometimes under-report foreign makers' recalls is a symptom of America today. we are more critical of ourselves than anyone else. and frankly the fact that Ford and GM still tend to sell more cars here than any other automaker means that overall their recalls would tend to effect more people therefore, they deserve more media scrutiny. When Toyota passes Ford and GM as having the most market share in NA, don't think for a second "the media" won't shift their eye more toward Toyota.
you speak of reason, you obviously don't belong in this forum! :D


standard operating procedure for the 5th gen forum is any slightly bad news reported about GM or ford is automatically "media bias". its an unwritten rule that most people here blindly abide by.

its actually one of the main reasons why this forum is so entertaining. :)

By the way....did anyone happen to notice that this was a voluntary recall when GM discovered there was a problem? The NHTSA was not involved..no deaths, no injuries that we know of...........but it was done because it was the right thing to do?

I noticed that.. but then again the public has not noticed that nor will they likely notice that.

By the way....did anyone happen to notice that this was a voluntary recall when GM discovered there was a problem? The NHTSA was not involved..no deaths, no injuries that we know of...........but it was done because it was the right thing to do?
correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is reason enough for GM to bother with a recall (voluntary or otherwise) doesn't that automatically imply safty is an issue? if it weren't then what was the point of the voluntary recall??

GM deserves credit for taking responsibility, but you're suggesting that because they are doing the right thing somehow that let's them off the hook at the same time? Here's an example. If a parking attendent takes your car for a joy ride but then admits it to you later, does that mean he should get a pat on the back from you? I sure hope not.

That analogy only works if you assume that GM designed the seatbelt improperly on purpose, and then decided that they shoudl change it.

correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is reason enough for GM to bother with a recall (voluntary or otherwise) doesn't that automatically imply safty is an issue? if it weren't then what was the point of the voluntary recall??

GM deserves credit for taking responsibility, but you're suggesting that because they are doing the right thing somehow that let's them off the hook at the same time? Here's an example. If a parking attendent takes your car for a joy ride but then admits it to you later, does that mean he should get a pat on the back from you? I sure hope not.
Relative to history and other manufacturers, its big step up for a company to do something like this voluntarily. Thats going to cost them a lot of money.

exactly.. who knows what other issues lurk around in the shadows for other cars and makes...

Relative to history and other manufacturers, its big step up for a company to do something like this voluntarily. Thats going to cost them a lot of money.

correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is reason enough for GM to bother with a recall (voluntary or otherwise) doesn't that automatically imply safty is an issue? if it weren't then what was the point of the voluntary recall??

GM deserves credit for taking responsibility, but you're suggesting that because they are doing the right thing somehow that let's them off the hook at the same time? Here's an example. If a parking attendent takes your car for a joy ride but then admits it to you later, does that mean he should get a pat on the back from you? I sure hope not.


well.......OK....there are tons of examples. The one that comes to mind most recently was when the NHTSA forced DCX to recall over a million Dakotas/etc for failure of the ball joints. Now......you probably didn't read it on THIS site...(God forbid we bash some other manufacturer!!) ..but if you read it anywhere else, DCX actually put out a press release that the failure did not pose a safety problem. Well.....OK..the front tire and wheel can separate from the vehicle at any speed and it isn't a safety hazard????

Within a few days, they had no choice.

My point is that we took immediate action. Which we should have and did!

I posted this for a reason......that reason is that there are some people who love to bash GM on this site. (and those numbers seem to be increasing) Doesn't matter what we do. Yes, some are very very passionate about their Camaros...and I also think most want GM to succeed.....but I think there are some out there that CANNOT WAIT to attack GM at every turn and would celebrate if GM went bankrupt tomorrow morning....Quite frankly, this site has become something other that what its original intent was.

I don't have a problem with people questioning GM/Ford/DCX/etc, per se, when we deserve it. That said, those who bash the most don't have a clue as to the real automotive world from a manufacturer's view. Nor do they WANT to learn anything about the workings of this industry....

Am I getting an attitude on this site? YOU BETCHA!

(memo to PacerX......8.1)

well.......OK....there are tons of examples. The one that comes to mind most recently was when the NHTSA forced DCX to recall over a million Dakotas/etc for failure of the ball joints. Now......you probably didn't read it on THIS site...(God forbid we bash some other manufacturer!!) ..but if you read it anywhere else, DCX actually put out a press release that the failure did not pose a safety problem. Well.....OK..the front tire and wheel can separate from the vehicle at any speed and it isn't a safety hazard????

Within a few days, they had no choice.

My point is that we took immediate action. Which we should have and did!

I posted this for a reason......that reason is that there are some people who love to bash GM on this site. (and those numbers seem to be increasing) Doesn't matter what we do. Yes, some are very very passionate about their Camaros...and I also think most want GM to succeed.....but I think there are some out there that CANNOT WAIT to attack GM at every turn and would celebrate if GM went bankrupt tomorrow morning....Quite frankly, this site has become something other that what its original intent was.

I don't have a problem with people questioning GM/Ford/DCX/etc, per se, when we deserve it. That said, those who bash the most don't have a clue as to the real automotive world from a manufacturer's view. Nor do they WANT to learn anything about the workings of this industry....

Am I getting an attitude on this site? YOU BETCHA!

(memo to PacerX......8.1)


Kinda reminds you of why you took a "break" from this forum, huh?

I posted this for a reason......that reason is that there are some people who love to bash GM on this site. (and those numbers seem to be increasing) Doesn't matter what we do. Yes, some are very very passionate about their Camaros...and I also think most want GM to succeed.....but I think there are some out there that CANNOT WAIT to attack GM at every turn and would celebrate if GM went bankrupt tomorrow morning....Quite frankly, this site has become something other that what its original intent was.


this can be looked upon in multiple ways.

sure, there are more people "GM bashing" today than maybe 12 months ago, but is GM not doing more recently to warrant this criticism? GM's marketshare is falling, the biggest loss since 1992 was just recently announced with no return to profits in sight, quality of vehicles has historically not been near the best on the market, seemingly large projects canceled, the lowering of GM's credit rating, Lutz's "might kill off pontiac and buick" slip up and quick retraction, the new GM logo on every new car (also affectionately labeled the GM "warning" sticker) -- there has been plenty of fodder for criticism, both constructive and destructive, for or against GM, but it seems as though at least within the last 6 or so months there has been a greater volume of "bad" news rather than "good" news, and with this perceived ratio more people are going to comment about the "bad" than the "good".


don't get me wrong, as much as certain people on this forum would love to label me totally anti-GM, i'm not for many reasons -- however, i will never be blinded by my love or hate for a certain company/individual as to block out all "bad" news about that company or individual and attack the source of the news, as many people on this board have done.

and to that point, i honestly don't quite understand why it is perceived that this board in particular is anti-GM. any time anyone posts anything at all that casts GM or even FORD in an even slightly bad light that news source and that individual is instantly attacked -- this thread is a prime example of such activity.


sorry if this turned ranting, i've got a headcold :(

....to what you said.....

Look at the reality of the problems both Ford and GM are facing today. It is NOT a level playing field...far from it and anyone who is in this industry understands this. How 'bout opening a FAIR market in Japan, Europe, and China without tarriffs! Did you ever price an American car in these countries? Try it! It's staggering!

Market Share will continue to fall for most players because the pie ain't getting bigger...and there are more manufacturers and more models competing for a piece of that pie.

By the way...I have not seen anyone post something about Honda's market share being down this year........but it is! (not to the extent of GM.)

Lutz did not say 'eliminate Pontiac or Buick' ..he said brand. That means particular car lines, not Divisions, but I also believe that our communications people misunderstood it as well. (mebbe there's a reason why our Legal Department hates it when we don't follow a script....!!!)

All I'm saying is that let's get our facts straight.

It's ok to take GM on...just make sure you have the facts straight.

Good example....there's an article in Edmunds about Camaro. The author says we should have just closed Ste. Therese and moved production to Bowling Green.

sounds like a great idea, doesn't it?

Couldn't be done! (TRUST ME on this one.......)

First...the CAW and the UAW would never have allowed it to happen. They'd simply strike and shut us down like they did in 1998.

Second...Bowling Green only has capacity for about 40K more units a year.....and it would require a new body shop in the hundreds of millions to build 40K cars a year.....no where near what the demand is.

The business case doesn't work!

well.......OK....there are tons of examples. The one that comes to mind most recently was when the NHTSA forced DCX to recall over a million Dakotas/etc for failure of the ball joints. Now......you probably didn't read it on THIS site...(God forbid we bash some other manufacturer!!) ..but if you read it anywhere else, DCX actually put out a press release that the failure did not pose a safety problem. Well.....OK..the front tire and wheel can separate from the vehicle at any speed and it isn't a safety hazard????

Within a few days, they had no choice.

My point is that we took immediate action. Which we should have and did!

I posted this for a reason......that reason is that there are some people who love to bash GM on this site. (and those numbers seem to be increasing) Doesn't matter what we do. Yes, some are very very passionate about their Camaros...and I also think most want GM to succeed.....but I think there are some out there that CANNOT WAIT to attack GM at every turn and would celebrate if GM went bankrupt tomorrow morning....Quite frankly, this site has become something other that what its original intent was.

I don't have a problem with people questioning GM/Ford/DCX/etc, per se, when we deserve it. That said, those who bash the most don't have a clue as to the real automotive world from a manufacturer's view. Nor do they WANT to learn anything about the workings of this industry....

Am I getting an attitude on this site? YOU BETCHA!

(memo to PacerX......8.1)

what does GM bashing have to do with this particular thread? are you saying I was bashing GM by saying I'm tired of all the whining about GM and media bias in here? I don't understand...

btw, my reply to you about "we did the right thing" isn't about just GM. if it was Toyota or Honda or whoever my opinion on the situation wouldn't change. yes, GM DID do the right thing. there is nobody who will dispute that. and as I said they deserve credit. but somehow because I dare suggest the media had the right and duty to report the news I am "GM bashing"? huh??

Well you can't get on us too much about GM bashing when professional automotive writers can't seem to write a knowledgable or factual story themselves. :D But at the same time, I think most of what people mean when they post on this site is that xxxxx is what THEY WOULD LIKE GM to do, rather than xxxx is what GM SHOULD DO. I know I'm guilty of this, and I have no real insight into the automotive business. I just want GM to give me a car that I don't have to mod to get it the way I want it. But if it doesn't make business sense for them to do it, I can't expect them to lose money in order to make me happy.

honda's lagging sales have been mentioned within posts on here, but for some reason they havn't been given their own seperate thread like they most likely should.