For those that wanted a turbo Cobalt SS...

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Valencia, CA (PRWEB) March 23, 2005 -- In February 2005, General Motors awarded Gravana a 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe for two primary reasons. First, Gravana is currently leading the industry in New Product Development for Cobalt Aftermarket. Second, the exposure and excitement created around Gravana’s 2004 SEMA Cobalts has allowed consumers to gain ideas of what they themselves can build once they buy a Chevrolet Cobalt. Unlike 2004, in which GM delivered two Cobalts one month prior to the SEMA Show deadline, Gravana will have at least six months to build this Cobalt for the 2005 Las Vegas SEMA Show.

For 2005, Gravana will build the ultimate “Twin-Charged” Cobalt SS Coupe. The stock Chevrolet Cobalt SS Coupe comes from the factory with an Intercooled Supercharger that produces 205HP. Gravana will add a Turbocharger ON TOP OF the factory Supercharger, to increase the power to approximately 300HP. In addition to building this monstrous power plant, Gravana will focus on expanding its line of products for the Cobalt, including a vented hood, Teske Design series body kit and several performance products for the standard SS Coupe. Gravana will again rely on companies such as Recaro, Boston Acoustics, Motegi, H&R and Goodyear for marketing partnerships on this project.

“We are truly honored to have been awarded this project so early in the season. As we learned from last year’s Gravana Project Cobalts, the excitement of these modified cars is helping to drive traffic to Chevrolet dealers. Given the great platform provided by Chevrolet, along with the early start on aftermarket products, the Cobalt has already become a desirable Tuner Car. Chevrolet has an aftermarket winner on their hands. We are just happy to be involved with such a great organization,” said Jim Lupold, President of Gravana. “We look forward to unveiling the Gravana Twin-Charged Cobalt SS Coupe at this year’s SEMA Show.”

Gravana’s product line-up for the Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe includes, but is not limited to, a 50-state legal Air Intake System, Header, Exhaust, Evo Style Hood, Body Kit, Coil-Over Suspension, Strut Bars, Carbon Fiber Door Sills and Engine Covers, and a variety of additional upgrades that compliment the car. Companies interested in a marketing partnership on the Gravana Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe, or any other Gravana project vehicle, should contact Gravana using the contact information below.
http://www.cobaltss.com/

Seems kinda retarded to use a turbo and supercharger and be a SOB to work on. The one thing I do like about it is that GM is actually giving a car to aftermarket providers to let them develop products like Ford does with the Mustang. This could be a good trend for GM.

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Valencia, CA (PRWEB) March 23, 2005 -- In February 2005, General Motors awarded Gravana a 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe for two primary reasons. First, Gravana is currently leading the industry in New Product Development for Cobalt Aftermarket. Second, the exposure and excitement created around Gravana’s 2004 SEMA Cobalts has allowed consumers to gain ideas of what they themselves can build once they buy a Chevrolet Cobalt. Unlike 2004, in which GM delivered two Cobalts one month prior to the SEMA Show deadline, Gravana will have at least six months to build this Cobalt for the 2005 Las Vegas SEMA Show.

For 2005, Gravana will build the ultimate “Twin-Charged” Cobalt SS Coupe. The stock Chevrolet Cobalt SS Coupe comes from the factory with an Intercooled Supercharger that produces 205HP. Gravana will add a Turbocharger ON TOP OF the factory Supercharger, to increase the power to approximately 300HP. In addition to building this monstrous power plant, Gravana will focus on expanding its line of products for the Cobalt, including a vented hood, Teske Design series body kit and several performance products for the standard SS Coupe. Gravana will again rely on companies such as Recaro, Boston Acoustics, Motegi, H&R and Goodyear for marketing partnerships on this project.

“We are truly honored to have been awarded this project so early in the season. As we learned from last year’s Gravana Project Cobalts, the excitement of these modified cars is helping to drive traffic to Chevrolet dealers. Given the great platform provided by Chevrolet, along with the early start on aftermarket products, the Cobalt has already become a desirable Tuner Car. Chevrolet has an aftermarket winner on their hands. We are just happy to be involved with such a great organization,” said Jim Lupold, President of Gravana. “We look forward to unveiling the Gravana Twin-Charged Cobalt SS Coupe at this year’s SEMA Show.”

Gravana’s product line-up for the Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe includes, but is not limited to, a 50-state legal Air Intake System, Header, Exhaust, Evo Style Hood, Body Kit, Coil-Over Suspension, Strut Bars, Carbon Fiber Door Sills and Engine Covers, and a variety of additional upgrades that compliment the car. Companies interested in a marketing partnership on the Gravana Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe, or any other Gravana project vehicle, should contact Gravana using the contact information below.
http://www.cobaltss.com/

Seems kinda retarded to use a turbo and supercharger and be a SOB to work on. The one thing I do like about it is that GM is actually giving a car to aftermarket providers to let them develop products like Ford does with the Mustang. This could be a good trend for GM.
300 HP in a tiny vehicle like that!!!:shock:
HOLY SH!T!!!! If only GM would sell it as a dealer installed option!

Can you imagine how much boost people would put through that thing?!? I don't think they will last long once they enter the rice world of 20#s of boost. Lol, buying a pulley and boost controller for the same car....wierd

Can you imagine how much boost people would put through that thing?!? I don't think they will last long once they enter the rice world of 20#s of boost. Lol, buying a pulley and boost controller for the same car....wierd
Yeah, but imagine how much fun it would be.

i hope they rethink their plans on building bodykits

http://www.gravanatuning.com/ is their website. it was started by the guy behind rksport. Theyre actually making a woodward style hood for the gto which is nice.

IMHO, I bet this is mostly a "show thing". I have little doubt that a turbo, all by itself, could make that same 300 HP - and be more efficient doing it.

with enough boost and proper tuning it easily could

IMHO, I bet this is mostly a "show thing". I have little doubt that a turbo, all by itself, could make that same 300 HP - and be more efficient doing it.I agree, why limit rpm with a supercharger? Some guys I know actually removed one of the turbos on their Supra's b/c one good sized turbo was more than sufficient, and less restrictive.
I'd LOVE to see a serious attempt at a Cobalt SS turbo, available only in a manual shift...How much fun would that be!.. :bow:

BTW, That news is over a month old. :p

IMHO, I bet this is mostly a "show thing". I have little doubt that a turbo, all by itself, could make that same 300 HP - and be more efficient doing it.

Yeah. A turbo would have done it for cheaper too. This twin-charger setup is way too much work and $$ for just 300 horses. But it's a show-car, and they're doing it more for the "wow" factor than anything else. You just know this car will get a lot of attention come SEMA, and that's what GM and Gravana want.

Yeah, I too agree it's a show thing, but pretty cool nonetheless. I suppose the supercharger could counter the lag encountered with larger turbos, but a good set of twins could do the same thing. Can you imagine what a conversation starter that would be for the tuner crowd.

"What ya got in there, 'charger, 'turbo?"
YUP

Anyone here ever heard of the AW11 MR2 S/C? People have been doing twincharger setups on those for years, and achieving extremely good results out of it. It is NOT "Just a show thing". Twincharging gives you the best of both worlds, low end(s/c), and top end(turbo) power. It is most common on factory roots supercharged fours where the s/c is extremely inefficient(with higher-than-stock-boost) in the higher RPM's, and there isn't an aftermarket manifold to remove the s/c and run a traditonal turbo setup with the stock boost-ready internals. I don't know if the SS uses a roots or centrifugal-type supercharger, so I can't really say if it's the best setup for it. And if you can turbo a stock n/a B-series Honda motor and have over 300 horses with no internal work, then I am absolutely positive you can get MUCH more than 300 out of a motor that is built for boost(Cobalt SS).

TWO OUTSTANDING THUMBS UP TO THE GENERAL!

That's what I was talking about when I mentioned "actively support the aftermarket".

Anyone here ever heard of the AW11 MR2 S/C? People have been doing twincharger setups on those for years, and achieving extremely good results out of it. It is NOT "Just a show thing". Twincharging gives you the best of both worlds, low end(s/c), and top end(turbo) power. It is most common on factory roots supercharged fours where the s/c is extremely inefficient(with higher-than-stock-boost) in the higher RPM's, and there isn't an aftermarket manifold to remove the s/c and run a traditonal turbo setup with the stock boost-ready internals. I don't know if the SS uses a roots or centrifugal-type supercharger, so I can't really say if it's the best setup for it. And if you can turbo a stock n/a B-series Honda motor and have over 300 horses with no internal work, then I am absolutely positive you can get MUCH more than 300 out of a motor that is built for boost(Cobalt SS).
IIRC, the Cobalt SS Ecotec is an intercooled roots setup.

DC does it with the SRT-4, looks like GM is doing/will do it with the Cobalt SS...so where the hell is Ford??

Funny to think 200HP is the minimum now for the cheapest performance cars offered by the mainstream companies... SRT-4, Cobalt, new Civic SI (200HP).

-B

If only it was driving the right pair of wheels damnit! J/K... GM needs FWD and RWD bases to be covered.

Perhaps we'll see a similar treatment of Saturn's new roadster and it's Pontiac sibling? They all share the EcoTec 4 cylinder motor, so why not?

DC does it with the SRT-4, looks like GM is doing/will do it with the Cobalt SS...so where the hell is Ford??

We probably won't see such Focus till 07 probably when the new platform and body debuts here in N/A. They already have this platform/body out in europe and asia and it has spawned some nice performance trims. Ford will be offering two performance-tuned focus's in the euro market... A 220hp Fwd Focus ST and a 250+hp AWD Focus RS.

Ford has in the past mentioned the use of turbocharging on the focus in the past, but i don't know how serious they are. If they ever get serious, i suspect we'll get a version of the Euro Focus ST or if they feel generous the 250+hp AWD RS model. Both Turbocharged.

So we'll just have to wait and see what they do in this growing compact tuner market. They do need an offering, but i think they're waiting for the new platform.

couple points i want to clear up that are common misconceptions. turbo lag doesnt exist if you chose the turbo right. you see that on supras because they go for huge turbos that fall out of boost easily. i dont see the point of even having superchargers on any vehicle anymore. turbos are so much more efficient and make so much more power vs. a supercharger.

if the solstice and the sky are anything like the s2000 then i dont want to see higher hp setups. the rear diff. in the s2k is VERY weak. makes an fbody 10 bolt look like a 9 inch. thats why you dont see a lot of high hp s2ks drag racing.

couple points i want to clear up that are common misconceptions. turbo lag doesnt exist if you chose the turbo right. you see that on supras because they go for huge turbos that fall out of boost easily. i dont see the point of even having superchargers on any vehicle anymore. turbos are so much more efficient and make so much more power vs. a supercharger.

if the solstice and the sky are anything like the s2000 then i dont want to see higher hp setups. the rear diff. in the s2k is VERY weak. makes an fbody 10 bolt look like a 9 inch. thats why you dont see a lot of high hp s2ks drag racing.

Turbos still have emissions issues that are expensive to resolve. That's why GM has leaned towards superchargers.

Turbos still have emissions issues that are expensive to resolve. That's why GM has leaned towards superchargers.

Maybe i'm out of the loop here since i don't know much about the happenings of the auto industry, but isn't the turbocharged ecotec allready approved and such since they're heavily used in Saabs? And saab doesn't plan on dropping them anytime soon. Aren't those emission issues resolved for the Saabs?

I'm probably missing something here so fill me in.

I look at both and i really like the turbocharged ecotec better. It is so much tq'er. It has a broader tq curve than the blown ecotec. The tq figures are so different. And a boost controller beats pulley swapping when playing with the boost. For a tuner car, i think turbocharging is the better alternative. Atleast in the eyes of consumers in this segment.

Regardless, chevy has done a very fine job with the Cobalt SS.

Maybe i'm out of the loop here since i don't know much about the happenings of the auto industry, but isn't the turbocharged ecotec allready approved and such since they're heavily used in Saabs? And saab doesn't plan on dropping them anytime soon. Aren't those emission issues resolved for the Saabs?

I'm probably missing something here so fill me in.

I look at both and i really like the turbocharged ecotec better. It is so much tq'er. It has a broader tq curve than the blown ecotec. The tq figures are so different. And a boost controller beats pulley swapping when playing with the boost. For a tuner car, i think turbocharging is the better alternative. Atleast in the eyes of consumers in this segment.

Regardless, chevy has done a very fine job with the Cobalt SS.

The issue is not that it cannot be done, but if it can be done at the appropriate price point.

Saab can absorb the added cost easily. A sub-$20,000 Cobalt is going to have a harder go of it.

Basically add a whole bunch of doo-dads to the engine controls, and if memory serves you need a special type of catalytic converter that lights off quicker than normal.

DC does it with the SRT-4, looks like GM is doing/will do it with the Cobalt SS...so where the hell is Ford??
Ford sells a large number of parts/upgrades for the Mustang and others, including blowers.

Ford sells a large number of parts/upgrades for the Mustang and others, including blowers.

Right :) Go to any NMRA event or Fun Ford weekend . It's more like GM and Chrysler are finally getting with the picture as far as the aftermarket is concerned ;) Including ALOT of support for the Focus , right down to a factory engineered RWD conversion with a 5.0 .

Turbos still have emissions issues that are expensive to resolve. That's why GM has leaned towards superchargers.

like Gold_Rush i maybe outta the loop on emissions but if that was the case, the $20k base price SRT4 wouldnt have a turbo nor would any volvos or saabs, or subarus or any other car manufacturer. do you have any more info on this?

'300 hp in a car that small, wowee!'... hehe... nobody on this board has really said that about the soon to be released 300hp factory-warrantied dealer-installed turbo setup available of the Scion, which is of a similar size and will most likely cost less.:p


But I digress... it's still in the testing phases so who knows if it'll actually make it to mass market, then again who knows if this turbo and supercharged Cobalt SS will, either.

Even if it does, I'm having a very hard time understanding the point of having both. The last car I heard of with that setup was the Ford GT40 concept from the mid 90s... had something like a V12 with four turbos and a single supercharger... heck maybe even two superchargers... I don't remember. Not sure why it would, but it was something crazy like that.

Seems like if the engine can handle 300hp, then it can handle 300hp via turbos, supercharger, or both... so pick the most drivable and cost-effective combo, which is most likely the turbo-only setup.

'300 hp in a car that small, wowee!'... hehe... nobody on this board has really said that about the soon to be released 300hp factory-warrantied dealer-installed turbo setup available of the Scion, which is of a similar size and will most likely cost less.:p


But I digress... it's still in the testing phases so who knows if it'll actually make it to mass market, then again who knows if this turbo and supercharged Cobalt SS will, either.
Yep, but that's not a GM vehicle, so the people around here are going to pretend it doesn't exist. :lol:

Threxx,

It's probably because people don't follow the Scion on this board, or imports as much as you might, no disrespect. I've always thought the scion was such a huge let down. It's so weak, but it's appearance makes it look as though it should be quick. It's all looks and no balls to back it up. 300 hp is what it needs to possibly make it as quick as it looks.

The roots supercharger is hard to work around on the Cobalt SS, and an additional turbo helps to work around that issue. Having boost at all rpms is nice.

Dan

Threxx,

It's probably because people don't follow the Scion on this board, or imports as much as you might, no disrespect. I've always thought the scion was such a huge let down. It's so weak, but it's appearance makes it look as though it should be quick. It's all looks and no balls to back it up. 300 hp is what it needs to possibly make it as quick as it looks.

The roots supercharger is hard to work around on the Cobalt SS, and an additional turbo helps to work around that issue. Having boost at all rpms is nice.

Dan
I know they don't follow imports that closely, but when they see the words "300hp scion" right in front of them and they're like "pfftt... how gay... it's still a crappy econo car", but then the same guy gets excited about a 205 or 300 hp cobalt or Neon SRT-4. That's hypocritical.

Now if these people never heard about the Scion or think the domestics are just as crappy then I have no problem with it.

And I think the xA and xB are a let down in terms of power, but the tC is at least somewhat decent at 160hp/2900lbs considering the price and feature content level for the money.

nobody on this board has really said that about the soon to be released 300hp factory-warrantied dealer-installed turbo setup available of the Scion, which is of a similar size and will most likely cost less.:p


I don't think they'd balk at it. 300hp in a car like that is a lot. Especially from the factory.

Btw...I've heard of the TRD blower, and it being available on the upcoming tC peformance model (supposed to compete against SS, SRT-4, Si, etc...), but this 300hp turbo package/kit is new news to me.

If they do that, they deserve some serious respect. Even Dodge and SRT and Mopar-parts department won't give you a warranty on the SRT-4's stage III kit.

Good to see Toyota hasn't lost their way. With the death of the supra, and then the Mr2 turbo's, and most recently the celica and Mr-S, i thought they had completely lost it performance wise. But with the new 300+hp IS350, 500hp Lexus supercar, and the blower and now turbocharger upgrades for the Scion tC, they seem to be getting back into the mix. I hope they get serious about the long rumored Supra too, and i hope it's packing a nice single or twin turbochargers. Nissan will roll out a 440+hp TT skyline here, and mazda just might give us an F/I version of the rx8 badged as a mazdaspeed or an F/I version of the now rumored rx7, and so the supra needs to make a return. I've heard N/A v8, and i'm hoping that doesn't turn out to be true.

like Gold_Rush i maybe outta the loop on emissions but if that was the case, the $20k base price SRT4 wouldnt have a turbo nor would any volvos or saabs, or subarus or any other car manufacturer. do you have any more info on this?

Everything in engineering is a trade-off.

I could spend more on putting a turbo on with all the necessary doo-dads and then spend LESS somewhere else in the car... like the interior... or the transmission... or the brakes...

OR, I can put a supercharger on and put the money I saved into the interior... or the transmission... or the brakes.

GM has taken a less expensive supercharger system in place of the turbo, got great emissions and fuel economy (equal if not better than the SRT-4) and basically made them equivalent performers.

In the product engineering world, that's a win/win/win.

Now, if somebody could make a DECISIVE business case that says that a 210hp turbo I4 is more desirable than a 210hp supercharged I4 to the customers - meaning that it's desireable enough to enough buyers to make the added cost of the turbo system add to the monetary bottom line, I'm all ears.

"I think turbos are WAAAYYY nifty-peachy-keen-cool!"

Is not a decisive business case.

"We're going to make $1,500,000 MORE per year with a turbo on the car than we will with the supercharger after tooling, capital, testing and engineering costs are absorbed."

IS a decisive business case.



Now before I get to monetarily mercenary about this, there are certain things that have to be done REGARDLESS of a somewhat negative monetary impact.

Case in point?

The Cadillac CTS-V's horrific wheel hop issue MUST BE FIXED, LIKE NOW.

GMHTP destroyed a CTS-V's rear end trying to get a 1/4 mile time.

UNACCEPTABLE ENGINEERING MISTAKE. THE CLUTCH FAILS FIRST, ALWAYS. FIX IT NOW. NO EXCUSES. NO BS ABOUT RIDE QUALITY, NO BS ABOUT NVH, NO BS ABOUT COST, NO BS PERIOD - GET IT FIXED. THIS IS A CADILLAC FOR CHRIST'S SAKE.


The Dicta PacerX:
Engineering expertise + marketing saavy + sales skills = effective communication of the voice of the customer to NAO Engineering, which means a better product for GM, better value for the customer, increased market share and increased profitability.