m6 conversion problem

Hey all we are trying to do the six speen conv on my 95 T/A. we have followed the steps from this writeup http://www.afrashteh.com/tranny_pics/T56.htm to a "T". The problem is the car won't start it the starter has no activity at all. No clicking or cranking at all. The brown and orange wires they say to connect into the sensor on the clutch are connected and we even have tried just wiring them together, still nothing. If any of you that have done the swap have any suggestions we would love to try them out. We want to have the car going by at least this weekend. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

Are you getting a security light? Wiring can be a pain sometimes. When you say you wired them together, did you wire extensions together, or the actual wires that came out of the A4 selector? I just butt connected mine, been that way since day one. No issues really, except that it will start in gear, but heck a lot of cars did that before 1989.

yea, I tried just wiring them together right from the harness and it still doen't make a sound. I guess I could get the starter tested but it worked perfectly before. I don't know what it could be :( I need to figure this out. The cars pretty much done but it just won't start :mad:

ttt for ya

This is what "Fast Caddie" told me to do when i did mine. I never wired up the clutch sensor or reverse lights, or reverse lockout for that matter. Just the VSS. Sounds like you did the brown and orange instead of the yellow and brown. Worked for me, good luck. :)
To wire the reverse lights and hatch release, you have to work with the plug that goes into the side of the auto shifter assembly (inside the car, under the console). You cut the 6 wires off the harness and wire the large yellow and brown wires together so your starter will work (these are part of the ground circuit for the starter... this is what keeps you from starting an auto car in gears other than park and neutral, and in M6 cars, it's wired to a sensor on the clutch pedal so the starter won't work unless the pedal is depressed). The orange w/black stripe and black w/white stripe need to be connected to work your hatch release. And the last two wires (one green, and the other i can't remember right now) need to be connected to the reverse light plug in the trans. Just get some speaker wire and run it from these wires through the hole you cut for the M6 shifter and connect them to the reverse light plug. That's about all the wiring you need to do. The CAGS and reverse lock out don't need to be connected... it's hard enough to engage reverse in these cars and you'd have to be REALLY uncorordinated to push the shifter into the reverse gate when going from 4th to 5th gear. Feel free do wire it in, however.

I have the brown and orange 12 guage wires connected I checked to make sure. All the wires that were on the wire pack that were in the connector are wired up. I have no Idea whats going on. The car has a gm security system with that horn thing under the hood. we cut those black and red wires that were connected to it but then we hooked them back up still nothing. No security light is on either. there was a little box under the dash with a red light and a little white knob but it had a connecter coming out of it with four wires but it wasn't connected to anything. I'm so lost. Any other suggestions?

any additional info would be great. thanks

any additional info would be great. thanks

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wire the large yellow and brown wires together so your starter will work (these are part of the ground circuit for the starter... this is what keeps you from starting an auto car in gears other than park and neutral, and in M6 cars, it's wired to a sensor on the clutch pedal so the starter won't work unless the pedal is depressed).

Now read what you said you did.

I have the brown and orange 12 guage wires connected I checked to make sure.

Yep... I had the same problem. Just hook the brown and yellow wires into each other (if you already haven't).

just checked the wires agin and the yellow and brown are conected just as they should be. i am going to take the starter in and have it checked to see if it works. any more ideas?

did you try jumping the starter solenoid?? I dont even have my starter going through the key...I have a push button start...what wiring have you done so far?

do you have a charged battery in?, or is your battery hooked up?

Bypass the switch for now... just hook the brown and yellow wires into each other to see if it starts.

The battery is hooked up and still no starter activity. And the brown and yellow wires are just butt connected up by the shifter just to make sure. How do I just wire it up to a starter button? Thats looking to be a good option if I can't figure it out. Also if I do just wire up a start button would I be able to just turn the key then hit the button to fire it? Thanks for the help so far everyone.

I did the swap one time and didn't seem to have too many problems. You might want to use a meter and check for voltage on the yellow and black wires. I can't remember which has the 12volts on it, but one should have power with the key on. If neither does, then you might have a blown fuse.

i had the same problem when i did my swap in my 95 z and it turned out the battery was dead. just a thought

neither the yellow or brown wire is getting any power to them and no power is getting to the starter at all. what should i do next.

thanks
Dustin

This probably should have been in the Drivetrain forum but since it was having to do with a no start condition, I left it here for ya. But, looks like you are still having problems. I'll move this over to the Drivetrain forum where somebody over there might be able to help you (may not read this forum).

Hmm, that strange as I have just got done doing the swap and I just jumped the yellow and brown wires togeather and my starter works fine.

neither the yellow or brown wire is getting any power to them and no power is getting to the starter at all. what should i do next.

thanks
Dustin

AFAIK, those wires shouldn't have power running through them (or at least not until you turn the key to "start"). They're just part of a ground circuit with no direct feed to the starter. The only other thing i can think of is that you may have unhooked or damaged a wire coming down the steering shaft while installing the pedals. Besides unbolting the starter, i don't see any other wires you could have messed with. Did you take the starter completely out? (i just unbolted it to slide the flexplate/flywheel out/in, didn't take the wires off... didn't take the steering column out either, too much trouble IMO)

when i was testing the wires i turned the key to start. were do thoes yellow and brown wires lead to. which fuses would i have to check? if the fuses are still good what should i check next?

thanks
Dustin

It's been a while since i've been under the car, so i can't remember exactly where they go. One goes to the steering column and the other to the starter (or somewhere along the way to the ground terminal to the starter). Might just have to chase them down and see. There are three main places for fuses... one is the fuse panel on the side of the dash closest to the driver's side door, another is the power distribution box on the driver's side of the engine (relay box), and the other place is the fusible links that leave from the positive terminal connector you see on the passenger side wheelwell (the fusible links are the bundle of thick red wires that go from that block down the 1/4 panel beside the battery). Also, i remember that there are three wires that attach directly to the starter, check these. And recheck the wires and harnesses under at the steering column to make sure they're plugged all the way in. That's about all i can remember about the starter circuit.

[edit]- I just found my manual for the car and looking at the circuit diagram tells me this route in a 95 F-body:

1) there's a fusible link that leaves the terminal block i mentioned earlier (PS wheelwell, it's the red cap with the "+" symbol on it, lots of fusible links emmiting from it), then turns into a RED wire that goes directly to the key switch.

2) From there the YELLOW wire from the switch leaves, splits later into TWO YELLOW wires, and goes to two places: one to the gear selector (the wire we were talking about earlier), and the other goes directly to the theft deterent relay.{From the gear selector, the BROWN wire that you connect the YELLOW wire to also goes to the theft deterent relay}. From the relay, a yellow/black wire leaves and goes to the theft deterent module.

3) Another wire leaves from that relay also, the PURPLE wire leaves and goes to the starter. This completes the power route to the starter.

4) The BLACK wire that leaves the starter goes directly to the battery.

The bad thing is, i don't know where the theft deterent relay and module are. But since you were doing a conversion, the only parts of this circuit you would have messed with are at the steering column, the gear selector, and at the starter.

thank you for the infromation fast caddie. does any one eles no where the theft deterent relay and module are.

thanks dustin

ttt

i was wondering if i could bypass the theft deterent relay and module and hook the yellow wire to the purple wire? would that work or is that a stupid question?

That would probably work, just wire one or both of the yellow wires to the purple wire (probably won't matter which yellow wire you use since it's on a common circuit). I still don't think the theft deterent part is the problem, but try the by-pass and see.

Man, you are really struggling with this install arent you. I though you would have gotton this solved last week. Good luck to you man, hope you get this worked out. :)

thanks, i thought i would have it worked out last week too. the only problem we are having with the install is this wireing problem, we got everything else done the first night. I have only really had time to work on it two days and a couple of minutes here and there.