2500 to 6500 rpm on a 400 block...

I am new to the board, but I've been asking a lot of questions, and basically have been told you can't get there from here, but nobody has been able to tell me why.

I have an '85 Camaro. It is a 5-speed now, and will be upgraded to a 6-speed later.

My purpose for the car is general introduction to the sports car game. I'm not looking to race in any specific class, or any specific type of racing, just and all around really fun car.

It came with a 305 with oil leaks. Genral consensus at the time was that you don't rebuild 305s. If you're gonna get a 350 you might as well do a 383. And if you're lucky you may find a 400 block. That is just what I did. It is bored .040 over and sitting in my living room waiting for parts to fill it.

I want to be able to pass the sniffer at the testing facility. The numbers I have to beat are below:

HC CO NOx
Standards: 2.00 30.00 3.00
Readings: 1.72 19.50 0.77
Results: PASS PASS N/A

I intend to replace the rotted out emissions stuff and install some shorty headers.

My ideal driving situation is that I'm in 5th at about 28-2900 rpm and floor it and get nailed to the seat back. If I'm in 3rd around 3500 rpm I want to shift at 6500 rpm and get a big grin in 4th. If given enough real estate to do 6500 in 5th I would like to pull 6th gear. All of this on a 3.45 gear ratio.

The thought is to put in an eagle crank and rods on top of Mahle pistons. I want a hydraulic roller cam with roller rockers. It will start with a carb, and then be converted to EFI, probably SuperRam.

The idea is to throw $20k at the whole car and scare any stock street car short of a Viper or Z06. I would like to be able to drive it to road courses, drag strips, and autocross within a 200 mile radius and enjoy my self at the event with the car. I probably won't win anything as the car will not be optimized for any specific venue, but I will have fun.

It has to run on 91 octane gas and run the A/C when its over 80 outside.

Helps' appreciated,
Jason

I'm no expert on 400 smallblocks but I do know they don't like running over 5000 rpm, and 5500 tops. I think it requires some pretty fancy work on the main caps to improve on this and the factory four bolt mains are NOT the ones to work with.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But they do rip and snort right on up to 5000 rpm, so there is some consolation anyway :)

I'm no expert on 400 smallblocks but I do know they don't like running over 5000 rpm, and 5500 tops.

That's only with the terrible factory cam and restricted heads. A good cam and some good heads will make any 400 block run where ever you want it to. I agree on the 4 bolt blocks. The web is too thin with a 400 block for 4 bolts. A 2 bolt block with studs is stronger.

As for passing a sniffer test it doesn't matter what size the engine is. It's all about how well the engine burns the fuel. A well tuned engine should easily pass any sniffer test no matter if it's a tiny 4 cylinder or a massive big block.

i typed a REALLY long post on this and the forum ate it,im tired so ill redo it tomorrow.But ive built many hipo camaros here in cali and youre prospects arent looking good,at least smog wise.ill elaborate tomorrow.

Indiana is not Cali - no visual, just have a cat and the hoses go over the exhaust pipes and the wheels go on the rollers. Beat the numbers and you pass.

The block is a two bolt, which is allegedly stronger.

The local guy seems to think that 475 isn't not impossible, and that was with world castings heads. Every build I've seen with AFRs of at least 383 has been at or over 500 in torque and horsepower with 9-10:1 compression. The big question never answered in those buildups is how would they perform with Hooker 2055s, a y-pipe, and cats.

It would be interesting to see a build with Dart Pro 1 heads or E-tec 200s. Most folks locally are trying to push me into the GM Vortecs, but with no heat riser thing it may be more difficult to tune for both power and emissions - I don't know.

Jason

Glad that you have a 2 bolt, but make sure that you have good cooling system in that car. 0.040 over in a 400 is getting a bit thin, you may have some overheating issues (some blocks are better than others). Mine is still a stock bore with 80k miles on it, looked real clean when i got it, that's why i didn't bother replacing the bottom end yet. I dropped the 58cc L98's on it and I'm getting ready to take the car out and rip it up on the street and strip.

Enjoy the torque when you get it running :D

- Justin

I guess the first part is what is required of the shortblock to reliably run up to 6500 rpm? How light can it be and still not flex/break itself up? DO I have to buy American forged pieces at a 50% premium to have quality?

Thanks,
Jason

I see no problems with the rpm you are looking at, even with a cast crank. And if your getting an Eagle forged crank you could go higher.
I do think your asking to much by expecting to be pushed back in the seat in 5th no matter what the rpm is. At 2900rpm in 5th you will already be at or dam near triple digits. Also if you search the open road forums you find that almost all the cars are faster in 5th. Few have the ponies to pull 6th gear.

Best heads at $1500 or less ready to install?

Jason

I turn my 406 to 6300, I have a stock crank, stock rods w/ARP bolts and KB pistons, it has been balanced. I am running protopline 220 iron heads w/ 2.05/1.60 valves and a comp cams 288XR roller cam. The car went 7.8's in the 1/8 at almost 91mph. Thats with the second ring installed upside down too.

LilJayV10

What's your comp. ratio, and did you buy bare heads or assembled? What would ou do different?

Thanks,
Jason

LilJayV10

What's your comp. ratio, and did you buy bare heads or assembled? What would ou do different?

Thanks,
Jason

My compression ratio is about 10:1, I bought the heads assembled from my local machine shop. Really there's nothing I would do different, besides install the rings correctly :( If I had the money, I would have put good rods and forged pistons in it and sprayed it. Besides that nothing, the car runs great and is just as drivable as my stock 305 TBI car.

if its good power in a wide range of rpms why not take that 400 block and throw in a good forged 350 crank and make a destroked 377 out of it. you can turn massive rpms with that, as long as you have an exhaust system that will let you. a friend of mine has a built up 377 in his 69z and he doesn't even shift till 8k:D. he's got a rev limiter at 8500 on the motor i believe, so they can spin like hell and take it. but spinning rpms like that, a good flowing exhaust is a MUST otherwise the backpressure at that rate is like stickin a cork in the pipes... but yeah, if i get ahold of a good 400 block i'm gonna throw a good forged 350 crank and a set of 6 inch rods in it. just a thought.

If I was going racing in a displacement limited class that might be the thing to do. But since I'm not almost any heads and cam I use will make more power with a 400. I am just trying to get this one done now. I'll save the big time stuff for the next one.

I thought you couldn't run iron heads at 10:1 compression without detonation?!

About 10.5:1 is the max you want to run on iron heads. Anything more than that and you are asking for trouble.

I wish I had known this before I ordered the Eagle kit I did. I could have gotten away with a smaller dished piston (30cc!). As it stands with 64cc heads I am supoosed to be about 9:1. How much difference is there in 1 point of compression? Is it based on a percentage or just a rough number?

if its good power in a wide range of rpms why not take that 400 block and throw in a good forged 350 crank and make a destroked 377 out of it. you can turn massive rpms with that, as long as you have an exhaust system that will let you. a friend of mine has a built up 377 in his 69z and he doesn't even shift till 8k:D. he's got a rev limiter at 8500 on the motor i believe, so they can spin like hell and take it. but spinning rpms like that, a good flowing exhaust is a MUST otherwise the backpressure at that rate is like stickin a cork in the pipes... but yeah, if i get ahold of a good 400 block i'm gonna throw a good forged 350 crank and a set of 6 inch rods in it. just a thought.

If you are not racing in a certain displacement class it is RETARDED to take cubes away. What the hells the point the more cubes will always make more power as long as it has the air/fuel demand that it needs. Have fun on ur build tho since it must be kool to destroke it :rolleyes: , whats the point of the 6" rods instead of the 5.7" rods or even stock 400 length. Itll rev even faster and higher and thats kool :rolleyes:

hey buddy no need to be a dick about this, obviously you've never driven a 377 destroked motor.... it doesn't take away power, if you weren't so niave and pesimistic you may understand this, but hey... someone's gotta be the prick on the forum right? he's running a 377 that ran an 12.37 at 131 but i guess that's probley not as fast as that sbc ur building is it? all this with a bill that doesn't even clear $7000.... but whatever, all i did was make a suggestion...

As a matter of fact no its not as fast as the sbc i am building but thats another story ill post a vid when shes done. Im not trying to be a dick but why are you trying to give him bad advice. What is the advantage of making your motor smaller? Why not throw a honda motor into your camaro those can rev to the moon. That doesnt equate to performance tho. Tell me what advantages he has to making his motor smaller im really not trying to be a dick just trying to see where you are getting at.

hey buddy no need to be a dick about this, obviously you've never driven a 377 destroked motor.... it doesn't take away power, if you weren't so niave and pesimistic you may understand this, but hey... someone's gotta be the prick on the forum right? he's running a 377 that ran an 12.37 at 131 but i guess that's probley not as fast as that sbc ur building is it? all this with a bill that doesn't even clear $7000.... but whatever, all i did was make a suggestion...

Don't want to burst your bubble, but more ci. is ALWAYS better than less, in the same package.
Racing orgaizations don't restrict the ci. of the different class engines because smaller ones make more power.
Chevrolet didn't go from 5.7L to 6L in the Corvette, because the 5.7 made more power.
Pro's don't build 5000hp elephant engines because they can get it from a small block.
Think about it.

more ci. is ALWAYS better than less, in the same package.

Wrong, a 302 Chevy will run much better than an equally prepared 305.

Martin

Can we get back to the which heads are ideal for my car?

The 408 is cast in stone (or at least hypereutectuc steel).

Jason

Wrong, a 302 Chevy will run much better than an equally prepared 305.

Martin

lol smart ass, bigger displacement of equal bore size. General Rule of thumb

Big Bore, Small Stroke is Better Than Small Bore, Big Stroke of equal (or almost equal likes lets say 3ci's :p ) displacement.

However Big Bore, Big Stroke is better than both.

Can we get back to the which heads are ideal for my car?

The 408 is cast in stone (or at least hypereutectuc steel).

Jason


Depending on your cam selection, which actually should be based from cylinder head flow numbers anyway, I think you would want a 200-220cc intake runner with a 2.05/1.60 head. The way it was explained to me from my machine shop, and I trust these guys, they won the NMRA nostalgia class last year, that a 2.08 intake valve on a street car is a little hard on the spark plugs because it dumps so much fuel into the chamber at low rpms, on a full race engine it isn't going to matter. Mike said they have found the 2.05 to be a good compromise. and unless you are turning some really high rpms, he said a 2.08 wouldn't be really benefical either.

The first thing to consider about your heads is your budget. How much are you willing to spend? Remember, heads it what makes power, before anyone jumps on me, yes the right cam and intake and so on is important, but if you don't have a cylinder head with good technology, flow characteristics(sp?)(I didn't just say flow numbers) then you aren't going to make really good power.

you have many options, AFR, Motown, Dart, edelbrock and so on. Dart has a new line of platinum heads that are supposed to outflow their iron eagle heads by 15%+. These are supposed to be better than the protopline heads that I have, and the platinum heads are very reasonably priced. Again, it depends on what you want to do with the engine. Pick an aproximate RPM range, which I think you have, and find a head that will flow enough air, then from the flow numbers pick a cam, or call a manufacturer and discuss what you have and wanting to do and have them pick a cam for you.

As far as big engine small engine, yes, a bigger engine will make more power if it's components are larger also. What I'm saying is you see a lot of people build 383's, and put cam/heads on them that are ment for a 350!! Then you have a ****ty running 383. Look around on this board, there are several out there. You HAVE to go with a bigger cam and heads to take advantage of the cubic inches. Thats why the build up we did for the 93Z was a 350 and not a 383, he already had the heads and cam, and putting it on a 383 would have been a waste of time and money. Just my .02

Jason

I'm will to go $1400. At a $1000 I'm at the Edlebrocks, but from what I've read AFRs can be had from as little as $200 more to about $400 more. Brodix are in the same range, just as Trickflow. The challenge is that they obviously work for different applications, and I can't figure out which ones are best for mine.

If the difference is only 20hp then screw it I'll just get the Performer RPMs and make my local guy happy. But If I can get 40-50 more then it might be worth the jump.

I've been told by numerous people on numerous boards that you cannot pick the cam first. It still makes sense to me - pick a cam with the right range, find heads that flow in that range, Voila! But folks get upset with me so I'm playin along.

I'm even willing to throw up the $900 its gonna cost to go hydraulic roller is it will really make a difference. My local guy says it won't.

Jason

I'm will to go $1400. At a $1000 I'm at the Edlebrocks, but from what I've read AFRs can be had from as little as $200 more to about $400 more. Brodix are in the same range, just as Trickflow. The challenge is that they obviously work for different applications, and I can't figure out which ones are best for mine.

If the difference is only 20hp then screw it I'll just get the Performer RPMs and make my local guy happy. But If I can get 40-50 more then it might be worth the jump.

I've been told by numerous people on numerous boards that you cannot pick the cam first. It still makes sense to me - pick a cam with the right range, find heads that flow in that range, Voila! But folks get upset with me so I'm playin along.

I'm even willing to throw up the $900 its gonna cost to go hydraulic roller is it will really make a difference. My local guy says it won't.



Jason

The thing you have to watch out for AFR is all the little crap they tack on, like bigger springs, bigger studs and so on. I agree, you really can't pick the cam first, you can get an idea put picking the cam goes hand in hand with picking the heads.

You can get lucky and score a set of used heads, have them checked first, but thats always an option.

I went with a hydraulic roller setup in mine, I got is from a board member on the thirdgen.org board for a good price.

I don't have any personal experience with edelbrock heads, some people have good luck others not so much, but there's always more to it than just one part of the combo.

You are going to want a head that flows 270cfm+ range, maybe more with respect to low lift numbers and velocity.

Don't want to burst your bubble, but more ci. is ALWAYS better than less, in the same package.
Racing orgaizations don't restrict the ci. of the different class engines because smaller ones make more power.
Chevrolet didn't go from 5.7L to 6L in the Corvette, because the 5.7 made more power.
Pro's don't build 5000hp elephant engines because they can get it from a small block.
Think about it.
wow. that is an ignorant statement. in general i guess you could say that bore is oriented towards hp while stroke is more oriented towards torque. so with that stated you stroke an engine and you gain torque, but to a point your pistons have farther to move and there's more weight on the rotating assembly and in the end you limiting your max rpm. in certain situation i can see the reason for destroking an engine as it can make you rev faster and higher, this gives an advantage when turbo charging as you make more power at higher rpms. if i was looking to twin turbo a 454 block i'd definitely put in a 400 crank to allow me to rev higher and faster, but if i wanted a supercharger i'd prolly put in a 500 or so crank so i can have the push to get the supercharger pumpin. n/a i'd prolly keep it at a 454. in saying that more CI is always better is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard, even if its the same bore. don't make yourself look ignorant please.

thank you 93rs, finally someone not so pesimistic and niave.... if making your motor smaller is such a disadvantage then you need to reconsider what your idea of disadvantage is.... a longer stroked motor has a shorter power band if you could say so. from 1500 to 6000 tops on a 383 whereas the 377 allows the same amount of power but over a much more broad range, in my friend's case its from 1500 to 8000 rpms and i guess if you consider that less beneficial then thats ur opinion. but more CI does NOT always mean its better. match this 377 to any 400 around with a near equal price tag on it and the 400 would be goin home with silver.... the entire reason i even posted wasn't to say that the 400 was worse than the 377 all around, but this guy seems to be concerned with his rpm range to turn the 400 so it sounds like a 377 would do him well since rpms are the main benefit of this motor....

[QUOTE= the entire reason i even posted wasn't to say that the 400 was worse than the 377 all around, but this guy seems to be concerned with his rpm range to turn the 400 so it sounds like a 377 would do him well since rpms are the main benefit of this motor....[/QUOTE]

You are right that is my focus, but I already bought the rotating assembly, and it will be at least 400 (I think 408 at .040" over).

Jason

sorry to hijack, its sounds like you've done your research and know alot about what you want. good luck with that ;)

wow. that is an ignorant statement. in general i guess you could say that bore is oriented towards hp while stroke is more oriented towards torque. so with that stated you stroke an engine and you gain torque, but to a point your pistons have farther to move and there's more weight on the rotating assembly and in the end you limiting your max rpm. in certain situation i can see the reason for destroking an engine as it can make you rev faster and higher, this gives an advantage when turbo charging as you make more power at higher rpms. if i was looking to twin turbo a 454 block i'd definitely put in a 400 crank to allow me to rev higher and faster, but if i wanted a supercharger i'd prolly put in a 500 or so crank so i can have the push to get the supercharger pumpin. n/a i'd prolly keep it at a 454. in saying that more CI is always better is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard, even if its the same bore. don't make yourself look ignorant please.

Shorter Stroke does NOT mean lighter rotating assembly. First of all the faster the thing spins the stronger the rotating assembly must be meaning more material. Also the block has to be strengthend as well where that is extra weight. Yes normally a shorter stroke has a lighter rotating assembly but just because its a shorter stroke does not necessarily make it so. Also you are only limiting your RPMs by the quality of material you are using and if you can supply the added air/fuel. If ya have the same heads/cam on a 400 as a 377 then ya the 377 will rev higher (atleast make power to the higher RPM). However if you provide the extra air/fuel that a bigger engine needs it will rev to the same RPM and make more horsepower/torque while it is at it. Taking cubes away so it can rev higher is better for a turbo why? Because it goes through the 4 stroke cycle faster meaning the turbo spins faster because of the faster exhaust stroke of the destroked engine? Possibly, then again a 400 will put out more exhaust at once making up for the slower exhaust stroke. Super Charger better off being stroked? Any motor is. N/A motor left untouched? What the hell for. Ive said it before and ill say it again. Taking cubes away is pointless if you do not need to stay within a certain class.

but I already bought the rotating assembly, and it will be at least 400 (I think 408 at .040" over).

Jason

You did the right thing

Thanks,

I just want to know if there's a better combo out there than the E-tec 200cc and AirGap Vortec manifold. It is about $1400, but if I get some $1400 heads I don't have to sell the Performer RPM intake I already have.

I tried to ask this stuff in advanced tech, but got the "Go away, little boy" treatment.

I guess you pays your money you takes your chances.

Jason.

Thanks,

I just want to know if there's a better combo out there than the E-tec 200cc and AirGap Vortec manifold. It is about $1400, but if I get some $1400 heads I don't have to sell the Performer RPM intake I already have.

I tried to ask this stuff in advanced tech, but got the "Go away, little boy" treatment.

I guess you pays your money you takes your chances.

Jason.

Well id say AFR 210/220s if there wasnt a 6 month back order but hey try your luck on ebay or get some twisted wedge heads.

If I could pay for them as I wait that would be cool. But I doubt that anybody would go for that.

I tell you what. They sound ripe for a buyout. More business than they can handle and a need for capital expansion.

My best guess is that I am leaving 40-50 hp on the table by going with the Edelbrocks. Is that about right?

Are the Trickflows an even match for the AFRs?

Jason

Trick Flow R Series 215cc Heads 1500 dollar version

Lift Value: Intake Flow
(CFM): Exhaust Flow
(CFM):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.100 66 57
0.200 141 107
0.300 199 145
0.400 244 175
0.500 273 190
0.600 282 198
0.700 287 203

NOTE: Test conducted at 28" of water (pressure). Exhaust with pipe.

AFR 220s 1500 dollar version


0.200 132 112
0.300 190 145
0.400 248 185
0.500 280 205
0.600 286 215
0.700 292 220

Now I totally forgot about Canfield heads which not too many people use or hear of but my fault for forgetting. If i didnt get the steal on my AFR 220s that I did and had to buy cyclinder heads new i would definetly have gotten the Canfield heads. Theyre a little cheaper and flow better.

Canfield 220 heads 1500 dollar version

0.100 71.7 52.2
0.200 144.9 104.9
0.300 206.4 146.2
0.400 252.4 184.0
0.500 288.0 203.2
0.600 301.7 219.2
0.700 306.1 227.2

Only thing is with the Canfield and Trickflow heads the exhaust #s are WITHOUT a pipe and with the AFRs it is with a pipe so the AFRs are more accurate on the exhaust side. Also the Trick Flows have a slightly smaller intake port meaning the air/fuel will be fed at a slightly faster velocity equalling more torque. Then again it flows less so probably balanced out. Also take into cosideration on what size cam you will be using. If its not making more than .500 lift its pointless to look at the .6 and up lift flow #s. Hope that helps, definetly if you have the 1500ish cash to spend those are the 3 to look at. Keep us updated on the build and enjoy.

I will give you my true experience which I have the same block, same cubes (408). I had my engine broken in on a dyno with a solid cam and AFR heads, she pulled really good in the 6500 RPM. The key to building the engine correct and having it last is to make sure that you have all the right matching parts. You can take a look at the components of my engine and the dyno results. If you read through the data you can see how the engine ran with different carbs and timing changes. If I can be of any assistance let me know, plus the guy that I had my AFR heads ordered from was the cheapest direct from AFR and free shipping. My complete buildsheet is also include with all the parts used in the engine:
SBC 408 Dyno w/ AFR 195 (http://community.webshots.com/user/dtl504)

I will give you my true experience which I have the same block, same cubes (408). I had my engine broken in on a dyno with a solid cam and AFR heads, she pulled really good in the 6500 RPM. The key to building the engine correct and having it last is to make sure that you have all the right matching parts. You can take a look at the components of my engine and the dyno results. If you read through the data you can see how the engine ran with different carbs and timing changes. If I can be of any assistance let me know, plus the guy that I had my AFR heads ordered from was the cheapest direct from AFR and free shipping. My complete buildsheet is also include with all the parts used in the engine:
SBC 408 Dyno w/ AFR 195 (http://community.webshots.com/user/dtl504)

I was lookin through your website and on the dyno section i could not find out what she put down. Any #s?

I was lookin through your website and on the dyno section i could not find out what she put down. Any #s?
On the website go to dyno sheet and the 1st sheet is the buildup and all the other sheet dyno results/#. 1963, 1967,1970,1971 etc

On the website go to dyno sheet and the 1st sheet is the buildup and all the other sheet dyno results/#. 1963, 1967,1970,1971 etc

Kinda hard to read i looked at the 73 one not 2 shabby at all. Curious this is all done engine out of the car, correct not rwhp/tq?

Lets see if I can give you a quick class how weshots page is setup:
1. Click Image resolution 1745 x 2400 view full page button located below the page.

2. Move you cursor over the document and the little dialog box (save, print, mail, folder,) will appear then a orange ball with 4 arrows appear at bottom right, click on that to magnify the document.

Please let me know if you still having problems.
Dave

Got it, looks good. Curious, what made you go with the 195s instead of 210s or even 220s? Also what intake are you using, victor jr or rpm?

Got it, looks good. Curious, what made you go with the 195s instead of 210s or even 220s? Also what intake are you using, victor jr or rpm?
The flow of the heads in the RPM area where my cam was designed to pull and where the car will spend most of its time. I thought that the 210 would have raise the rpm curve a litter higher in the rpm band and would not have been a benefit for a 95% street car. The 210 will flow higher in the upper RPM which would have been useless for my street car.

The build sheet is a list of all the parts used in the assembly done by me in the garage. I have a Edelbroc RPM Intake.
Thanks

My local guy says I should do a 210 Victor jr. with the single plane manifold. His agument is the performance is similar to the AFRs as cast, and if I take them to be CNC'ed they'd be even better, plus they have them in stock, and don't need special hardware.

I mentioned minimum cross sectional area, and he said I was reading too many books.

The good news is that he hadn't placed the order for the rotatingassembly yet. I'm now getting SRP pistons with a 7cc dish instead of the KB pistons with the 30cc dish, so my compression should be closer to 9.98:1.

My local guy says I should do a 210 Victor jr. with the single plane manifold. His agument is the performance is similar to the AFRs as cast, and if I take them to be CNC'ed they'd be even better, plus they have them in stock, and don't need special hardware.

I mentioned minimum cross sectional area, and he said I was reading too many books.

The good news is that he hadn't placed the order for the rotatingassembly yet. I'm now getting SRP pistons with a 7cc dish instead of the KB pistons with the 30cc dish, so my compression should be closer to 9.98:1.

Sounds good to me, type of cam you plan on running?

Iuhno, what's a good one?

On another board I hear about a CC306, GM847 or some Comp CAms Extreme Roller.

Supchevy used this one:
COMP Cams XR286R solid roller camshaft (248/254 @ .050, 286/292 adv, .606/.612 lift w/ COMP 1.6:1 rockers, 110 LS), Holley HP1000 carb, 38 degrees total ignition advance.

and this one:
COMP Cams XR280R solid roller camshaft (242/248 @ .050, 280/286 adv, .600/.606 lift w/ COMP 1.6:1 rockers, 110 LS), COMP solid roller lifters lashed at 0.016-intake and 0.018-exhaust, 38 degrees total ignition advance.

Any better ones?

I'm not dgoing to knock your engine builder, but the fact is the bigger heads and a single plane into will operate in the higher RPM range. Build your engine to match where is will spend the majority of its time.
Do some research/comparison and find the RPM range for the Single plane and where the 210 heads flow the highest. Also know what your dynamic and static compression will be to include whats the quench. I'm not saying that you will be disappointed with that combo he suggest but if the match components he is assembling does not reach its potential until 3500 RPM & up and you are not operating in that RPM range than you will be dissappointed in your low RPM Range. If this is a Quarter mile car with 60% strip I think it would be good to go bigger. Remember this Bigger is NOT always Better.
As for cam I will call different cam manfacture and talk to them. The cam designer for Lunati (UDHarold) who was the previous owner of Ultradyne Cam is the I talked to before picking my cam. By the way he design the H.E. Cam for Comp Cams. Look around on this web site and ask question their is a lot experience of people building 400 (Chevelle Tech (http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=4;hardset=0;start_point =0;DaysPrune=0)

Also download DCR Calculator written by Pat Kelly, it will let you know what combination/machining to achieve the proper quench (.035-.045).
DCR Calculator (http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/index.html)

Right now I dont think you are ready to start building, you need to have a solid plan so that you spend money efficient and get the best results for your budget. I have about $6000.00 in my engine.

Here is another good forum that can give some good advice:Chevy Talk (http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB64&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14)

I'm not dgoing to knock your engine builder, but the fact is the bigger heads and a single plane into will operate in the higher RPM range. Build your engine to match where is will spend the majority of its time.
Do some research/comparison and find the RPM range for the Single plane and where the 210 heads flow the highest. Also know what your dynamic and static compression will be to include whats the quench. I'm not saying that you will be disappointed with that combo he suggest but if the match components he is assembling does not reach its potential until 3500 RPM & up and you are not operating in that RPM range than you will be dissappointed in your low RPM Range. If this is a Quarter mile car with 60% strip I think it would be good to go bigger. Remember this Bigger is NOT always Better.
As for cam I will call different cam manfacture and talk to them. The cam designer for Lunati (UDHarold) who was the previous owner of Ultradyne Cam is the I talked to before picking my cam. By the way he design the H.E. Cam for Comp Cams. Look around on this web site and ask question their is a lot experience of people building 400 (Chevelle Tech (http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=4;hardset=0;start_point =0;DaysPrune=0)

Also download DCR Calculator written by Pat Kelly, it will let you know what combination/machining to achieve the proper quench (.035-.045).
DCR Calculator (http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/index.html)

Right now I dont think you are ready to start building, you need to have a solid plan so that you spend money efficient and get the best results for your budget. I have about $6000.00 in my engine.

Here is another good forum that can give some good advice:Chevy Talk (http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB64&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14)

Hes right, it will NOT make any power below 3grand so if this is your street car id definetly suggest atleast changeing to a dual plane intake manifold. Id keep the 210s but thats just me. Also ya you have to do all those little calculations to make sure it runs right and you get out of it what you want (not something that only pulls from 5-10 grand). Once again hes also right on the expensive part. Ive spent damn near 7 grand on my build (well i got some used stuff but if you were to buy everything new) and i am still not done. I still have machine work to pay for which will be atleast another G so im guessing to duplicate my engine about 8.5 grand. Ive been building it slowly pay check by pay check and just decided to see how much ive spend/will spend and was pretty shocked to see how much has already gone into it. Have fun tho thats whats most important.

So here's the question...

Given I have the Performer RPM intake right now how would it chnage the way the Victor jr. heads flow? I am sure the number would be limited by the flow/velocity of the intake, but how much? Would the velocity slow down so significantly that this is a mismatch or just bring the right mixture in at my preferred rpm?

I have no problem spending the cash. All it takes is time to get it. That said, I'm not trying to just throw money out the window to get a low performing unit with all of the hot flashy names/terms. Cash doesn't fix bad decisions, and I am trying to make good ones. That takes a specific approach to fact gathering, and information analysis. So far what I've read doesn't match my approach, and doesn't offer an alternative.

As far as heads go the flow numbers I'm looking for are 250-270 between .400 and .500. The minimal cross sectional area should be around 2.16. Now how to go about matching both to the same head at a chamber size that allows me to run 91 octane?

DTL504, your combo is good for 460s. What was your approach to part selection? How close to your target did you get? How is it on the street? What gas do you use? Do you think that 210s would give you the extra 40 horse for 500? Would they just move the range higher? (You and I should get together sometime, I'm in your neck of the woods...)

Where are you located?
I will respond later but I have to make a run now and will be back later tonight.
Thanks for the compliment, we should get together and talk and see what are you looking for. Here is a few questions.
1. How much money are you willing to spend on this combo?
2. What is your timeline for completing this engine?

I figure about $6000 should be more than enough with the block work already completed. Ten months from now, and I should be putting it back in the car.

Gary, In. I work between West Chicago, Waukegan, and Chicago Heights.

80mph 23mpg - The next best thing to the sig.

we have a 404" .20 over 400
eagle 4340 crank
eagle H beam rod
srp flat tops
Super victor intake
Dart pro 1 230cc head
FAST efi
it has been spun to well over 7k b4
this block has also been converted to splayed main caps. if u buy a block make sure u get a 2bolt so if u wanna make better power later u can have it converted.

and it will go 11.50s NA all day in a 3600lbs car
and 10.30s on a 175shot

i would not go .40 over on a 400 if u really want to be making some good HP and spinning it fast the cylinder walls get thin. if i was making a race 400 i would go no bigger then a 406 wich is .30 over. bore the least over u can!

also u can easily run more then 10.5:1 compression ratio on iorn heads. b4 the darts were bought we had soem vortec on it and it was 11.5:1 and ran fine all day on pump gas and the way driven often and wew on for a couples yers with not one problem. the key is to have good "quench" IE have the blaock zero decked.

here are some random engine shots. and the turbo hearder being fabbed :cool:
http://community.webshots.com/album/145780202tUKHiF

http://image09.webshots.com/9/3/73/75/112637375FDPrgA_fs.jpg

;)

Do you feel that you had to go EFI to keep it streetable?

When I nail it in this car the higher the range the better. I know from the calculations the trip will be cruising between 2500-2800. But if I drop a gear then I'm above 3000, and that's where I really want it to show itself. The general sense I got was that you can't get a cam for more than 4000 rpm range. So thats the range I chose and why.

I wish I could go EFI right off the bat, but I have to trim some nickels to get it in the car. So carb first then EFI.

I think with the 7cc cuts on these .040 over pistons I will be at 11-11.5:1 on a 64cc chamber. So I need a +70cc chamber to get down where 10-10.5. The block height is 9.005 so the thing to do is work with .0350" to get the quench to .040", right?

Jason

we went EFI cuz we got a good deal on it and the widband o2 makes tuning a snap! making adjustmenst is so much more fun while sitting in the drivers seat :cool:

Do you feel that you had to go EFI to keep it streetable?

When I nail it in this car the higher the range the better. I know from the calculations the trip will be cruising between 2500-2800. But if I drop a gear then I'm above 3000, and that's where I really want it to show itself. The general sense I got was that you can't get a cam for more than 4000 rpm range. So thats the range I chose and why.

I wish I could go EFI right off the bat, but I have to trim some nickels to get it in the car. So carb first then EFI.

I think with the 7cc cuts on these .040 over pistons I will be at 11-11.5:1 on a 64cc chamber. So I need a +70cc chamber to get down where 10-10.5. The block height is 9.005 so the thing to do is work with .0350" to get the quench to .040", right?

Jason

you need a .035" head gasket, correct

Went to a race shop local (Joe Rhyne), and talked to the counterperson there. Asked about Brodix Track 1 heads and recommended Dart Pro 1s.
Talked to the other guy at the first shop and said the Dart Pro 1s would do better now and later than the Victor jrs. They have those in stock also.
Talked to Lloyd Elliott (REALLY VERY HELPFUL!!!) and he recommends Dart Pro 1s - ported, of course.

That's it, I'm done. Thanks, guys!

Now... to learn about picking cams... :confused: :confused: