Solstice Pricing official: Well equipped starting at $19,995!

Bob Lutz has just announced a well-equipped Solstice with a manual tranny will start at $19,995, that includes the destination charge. Also, the base engine will be a 177 HP Ecotec! Great news in the power department since the speculation was a more milktoast 140.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com

Thats awsome, the man kept his word of under $20K.. This think is going to sell like hot cakes. 177HP is pretty good for the base car. More HP than a Miata, more torque than an S2000.

Now pleeease make an $18,000 Solstice coupe, i'd love it for a second car.

yea, he kept his word of under $20K, by $5!! besides, dealers will mark that up to like $25K anyway.

still, 177HP and good torque w/ a manual. if i had the money, i'd be temted to buy one for a daily driver.

Now pleeease make an $18,000 Solstice coupe, i'd live it for a second car.

Ditto :) :D :cool:

Don't be fooled, it's not "well equipped" it is base.

I thought the base $19,995 model would have manual roll-up windows and no AC?

Says 4 wheel disk, 18's, and cd player will be standard. Dont know about the no AC or roll up windows.

I don't think GM would bother designing crank and power windows for such a low production car. It would be cheaper for them to just offer power windows. Same goes for the no a/c option, but I'm sure that would only save them a few pennys on every car.

I thought all kappa cars were put on hold? :confused:

...more torque than an S2000...

My lawnmower has more torque than an S2000. :cool:

Damn...my spelling sucked this morning

I thought all kappa cars were put on hold? :confused:

All future Kappa derivitives were put on hold. Seems GM was set to go hog-wild with new Kappa models....I think they realized it just isn't logical right now, so Solstice and a little later Sky are the only 2 Kappa models for now.

The Saturn "product specialists" at the Chicago Auto Show kept refering to the Kappa chassis as "purpose built"......for some odd reason....:confused:

I don't think GM would bother designing crank and power windows for such a low production car. It would be cheaper for them to just offer power windows. Same goes for the no a/c option, but I'm sure that would only save them a few pennys on every car.


I could see no a/c, but roll up windows doesn't seem practical from a manufactoring standpoint. most would opt the extra $300? for the power windows/locks/keyless. rollup would probably end up being on 5% of the cars, not worth it.

18", 4 wheel disc ABS, CD player, other then keyless, that is all I really need. :thumb:

Now pleeease make an $18,000 Solstice coupe, i'd love it for a second car.
That's when you buy them USED ;)

I'd much rather have a Sky, but if you can really get a Solstice for 20k and the moron dealers don't mark them up, I'm gonna seriously try and pick one up this summer.

I'd much rather have a Sky, but if you can really get a Solstice for 20k and the moron dealers don't mark them up, I'm gonna seriously try and pick one up this summer.

Hopfully the Sky and Saturns no-haggle pricing will keep Pontiac dealers a little more in check. Pontiac needs '06 production to huge so dealers will be flooded with the cars and hopfully won't mark them up.

Cool. How much does it weight? Any idea when we will see a GXP version? I've heard early '08 for the sky redline. Man thats 3 years off :(

Cool. How much does it weight? Any idea when we will see a GXP version? I've heard early '08 for the sky redline. Man thats 3 years off :(

about 2800lbs. last I heard forced induction verions would follow 1 year later.

about 2800lbs. last I heard forced induction verions would follow 1 year later.
Isn't that a bit heavy for a little roadster? The cobalt only wieghs 2900lbs. Summer of '06 could be the time for a new car for me.

Isn't that a bit heavy for a little roadster? The cobalt only wieghs 2900lbs. Summer of '06 could be the time for a new car for me.

Honda S2000 is 2835 lbs. :shrug:
BMW Z4 3.0 = 2998 lbs.

verts are always heavier than hard tops, I'd be all over a base coupe version.

Interesting. SpeedTV gave up that info on Word's Greatest Autoshows - Detroit almost two weeks ago. :D

Its always been said that the Solstice was going to be under 20k, even if a lot of people, especialy on this board, didnt belive GM could keep the cost down that low.

Honda S2000 is 2835 lbs. :shrug:
BMW Z4 3.0 = 2998 lbs.

verts are always heavier than hard tops, I'd be all over a base coupe version.

Exactly. Everyone wants to compare this car to the Miata. Not every roadster is tiny. The Kappa cars are considerably larger than the Miata!!! All you have to do is see one in person to know that. I think the Z4 comparison is more applicable.

While 2800 lbs isn't overwhelmingly impressive, with the amount of power that's being mentioned it will not be an albatross. There aren't many cars coming out at the Miata's 2300 lbs these days, including the next generation Miata. Also consider that Kappa is not Solstice-specific (though it will underpin other roadsters), it also has the flexibility to satisfy other types of vehicles (e.g. Nomad) which implies more weight. Always increasing emissions and safety equipment also add weight.

This will be a popular vehicle and the dealer markup complaints will surface this summer (at least on the first few batches of cars). What's better, the magazine/media guys seem to like the car, so it should get some glowing commentary.

The reason the wieght stuck out at me is b/c my g/f just picked up an Ion Redline which wieghs in at 2900lbs. I figured it would be signigicantly lighter than that. I didn't think about it being a convertible, though. Are they coming out with coupe versions of these?

Isn't that a bit heavy for a little roadster? The cobalt only wieghs 2900lbs. Summer of '06 could be the time for a new car for me.
It has a depleted uranium chasis.

While 2800 lbs isn't overwhelmingly impressive, with the amount of power that's being mentioned it will not be an albatross. There aren't many cars coming out at the Miata's 2300 lbs these days, including the next generation Miata.

current Miata is 2529 lbs. but has a very weak engine and was feature in the movie Corky Ramano.

Next miata is expected to be heavier. If they decide to built the next one big enough for American males to drive I'd expect the weight to be about the same as the Solstice at ~2800

Are they coming out with coupe versions of these?

No plans yet, but the concept version is awesome http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-pqr/Pontiac-Solstice-Coupe-RA-1280x960.jpg

Turbo solstice coupe would be a great matchup for the 350z

current Miata is 2529 lbs. but has a very weak engine and was feature in the movie Corky Ramano.

Next miata is expected to be heavier. If they decide to built the next one big enough for American males to drive I'd expect the weight to be about the same as the Solstice at ~2800


The Miata debuted at around 2100 with the 1.6L in '90 and grew to 2300 for the NB in '99, now 2400/2500 as a current model. I owned a '00 LS and can testify to it being an enjoyable car to drive, albeit underpowered and short on comfort. The next Miata (NC) will be larger and picking up more weight which may be in part from sharing the platform of the RX-8. It should carry the 2.3L 4-cylinder making 160hp/150lb-ft as a base model. Rumors are also suggesting a retractable hardtop. Its styling should be a natural progression into the current Mazda theme.

As a P.S., count me among those interested in a Solstice coupe. ;)

Have they let it slip on what type of forced induction will be powering the more powerful version? I heard it was a supercharger but is that not correct? :confused:

Have they let it slip on what type of forced induction will be powering the more powerful version? I heard it was a supercharger but is that not correct? :confused:

That would seem natural considering the Ion RL and Cobalt SS Ecotecs are supercharged.

Have they let it slip on what type of forced induction will be powering the more powerful version? I heard it was a supercharger but is that not correct? :confused:

The Saturn Sky "product specialist" at Chicago said Turbo four or even a V6. :D ..............but not till '08....damnit! :mad:

The Saturn Sky "product specialist" at Chicago said Turbo four or even a V6. :D ..............but not till '08....damnit! :mad:

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed. :D

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed. :D

They also make a 210Hp Turbo version of that same 2.0L engine and sell it in the Saab 9-3.

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed. :D

Oh, it just frustrates the hell out of me to see such a timid approach to car building....if you're going to build something, don't make the initial buyers want to sell their suddenly depreciated cars to get the better model.

I understand keeping sales moving with new models, but, damn...make a car that looks like this and not give us the performance model for two more years is stupid.

The Fiero all over again....get it right just in time to kill it because of poor sales. :rolleyes:

Don't be fooled, it's not "well equipped" it is base.

Probably is a stripper considering the better equipped sky will retail for 25k, 5,000 dollars more than the solstice. That leads me to think the Solstice is a real stripper.

Z28x, i love the turbo 2.0L ecotec. The little thing is a tq monster. It makes 220lb-ft at just around 2,200rpms. The Cobalt SS's supercharged 2.0L ecotec makes 200lb-ft at 4,400rpms. 20 less lb-ft of tq at basically double the rpm :eek:. From a tq production point of view, the turbo is clearly better. I still wish they'd have used the already Saab developed turbo ecotec instead of creating a supercharged version for the SS. I hope any future Solstice or Sky F/I varient will go with the turbo instead.

Oh, it just frustrates the hell out of me to see such a timid approach to car building....if you're going to build something, don't make the initial buyers want to sell their suddenly depreciated cars to get the better model.

I understand keeping sales moving with new models, but, damn...make a car that looks like this and not give us the performance model for two more years is stupid.

The Fiero all over again....get it right just in time to kill it because of poor sales. :rolleyes:

Nope, it's the original 1997 BMW Z3 all over again. Doesn't anyone remember all those cute little roadsters, many of which were painted blue like the one in the James Bond movie Goldeneye? You know, the ones that were sold in the Neiman Marcus catalog. They were all 1.9 liter 4-bangers.

It wasn't too long before BMW introduced 6-cylinder models, then they dropped the 4-bangers in the American market. When the BMW Z4 showed up, they didn't even offer a 4-cylinder model in Europe! Yes, that's right, even fuel-economy crazed Europeans who have to pay $6.00/gallon didn't want 4-cylinder BMW roadsters! Straight six engines, only.


GM isn't the type of company to learn from BMWs' mistakes - or even their own.

Nope, it's the original 1997 BMW Z3 all over again. Doesn't anyone remember all those cute little roadsters, many of which were painted blue like the one in the James Bond movie Goldeneye? You know, the ones that were sold in the Neiman Marcus catalog. They were all 1.9 liter 4-bangers.

It wasn't too long before BMW introduced 6-cylinder models, then they dropped the 4-bangers in the American market. When the BMW Z4 showed up, they didn't even offer a 4-cylinder model in Europe! Yes, that's right, even fuel-economy crazed Europeans who have to pay $6.00/gallon didn't want 4-cylinder BMW roadsters! Straight six engines, only.


GM isn't the type of company to learn from BMWs' mistakes - or even their own.Riiiiiiight. What was the power rating of that 1.9L again? What was the sticker price on the Z3? Did BMW discontinue the Z3, or did they redesign it and carry it on as the Z4? :think:

The 2.4L VVT Ecotec isn't far behind the base 2.5L in the Z4 in output. And show me where you can buy a Z4 (or a Z3 when it was new) for anything close to 20 grand.

Didn't think so.

Of course, with the Solstice, for your 20 grand you have to put up with styling that isn't all goofy looking like the Z4. Wait...

Oh, and for those wondering about the higher output engine for the Solstice: I would NOT assume it will be the same as the engine in the Cobalt SS, or in the Saab 9-3. :)

Riiiiiiight. What was the power rating of that 1.9L again? What was the sticker price on the Z3? Did BMW discontinue the Z3, or did they redesign it and carry it on as the Z4? :think:

1. BMW's 1.9 liter was rated at 140hp in Europe - remember, this 9 years ago!

2. The BMW was in the mid-to-high $20K range. It seemed cheap for a BMW at the time because we were coming out of an era when the Deutch Mark was about a strong as today's Euro.

3. Compared to the 1st generation Miata (which was nowhere near the original $14K MSRP by the mid-90s) the Z3 was a better built, more comfortable, more spacious roaster for a little-bit-more money.

The 2.4L VVT Ecotec isn't far behind the base 2.5L in the Z4 in output. And show me where you can buy a Z4 (or a Z3 when it was new) for anything close to 20 grand.

Didn't think so.

Of course, with the Solstice, for your 20 grand you have to put up with styling that isn't all goofy looking like the Z4. Wait...

1. BMW's 2.5 liter inline-6 will soon be putting out 210-215 horsepower.

2. Prediction: The Solstice's $19,995 MSRP will be padded by a mid-model-year price increase soon after the introduction. The sub-$20 price is just pre-model launch hype.

3. The Solstice shares its engine with the Cobalt, its transmission with the Colorado/Canyon pick-ups and I'm still not sure if this thing has a trunk, enough space for normal sized humans, or a foolproof top.

1. BMW's 1.9 liter was rated at 140hp in Europe - remember, this 9 years ago!

2. The BMW was in the mid-to-high $20K range. It seemed cheap for a BMW at the time because we were coming out of an era when the Deutch Mark was about a strong as today's Euro.OK, so it was over 30 hp behind, and it cost ~$10 grand more 9 years ago. Thanks for making my point. Oh, and I think it was only 138 hp here.3. Compared to the 1st generation Miata (which was nowhere near the original $14K MSRP by the mid-90s) the Z3 was a better built, more comfortable, more spacious roaster for a little-bit-more money.Quite a bit more money, actually. Both are still around and selling fine (for quite a bit more than 20 grand, today). How exactly does this make the Solstice a bad idea at 20 grand?

1. BMW's 2.5 liter inline-6 will soon be putting out 210-215 horsepower.OK, and at what base price? 2. Prediction: The Solstice's $19,995 MSRP will be padded by a mid-model-year price increase soon after the introduction. The sub-$20 price is just pre-model launch hype.OK...maybe... and so?3. The Solstice shares its engine with the Cobalt, its transmission with the Colorado/Canyon pick-ups and I'm still not sure if this thing has a trunk, enough space for normal sized humans, or a foolproof top.The Z4 shares its engine and transmissions with other cars too. Big deal. The trunk is indeed small (as is the one in my Miata), and I haven't operated the top yet. But the interior is certainly roomier than my Miata's (also roomier than a 2nd gen Miata's). I thought the transmission shifted quite nicely, and the engine makes good power. I can't speak about engine exhaust sound (the cars I've driven have been pretty early development/integration cars, and it's been quite a while at that). The ride/handling and braking are great. Remember, this is a sporty two seat roadster, not exactly the most practical daily driver (I know from experience with my two seater).

1. BMW's 1.9 liter was rated at 140hp in Europe - remember, this 9 years ago!.
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1. BMW's 2.5 liter inline-6 will soon be putting out 210-215 horsepower.

Z4 2.5L = 184HP/174tq
Z4 3.0L = 225HP/214tq
Z3 1.9L = 138hp/133tq

also the original base MSRP of the Z3 in 1996 was $28,750...remember that is in 1996 dollors so in todays money it would be 22% higher (assuming 2% inflation) or close to $36K for a 138hp sports car.

Solstice looks like a pretty good deal to me :thumb:

OK, so it was over 30 hp behind, and it cost ~$10 grand more 9 years ago. Thanks for making my point. Oh, and I think it was only 138 hp here.Quite a bit more money, actually. Both are still around and selling fine (for quite a bit more than 20 grand, today). How exactly does this make the Solstice a bad idea at 20 grand?

Somehow you keep missing the point that BMW no longer makes 4-cylinder roadsters?


OK, and at what base price? OK...maybe... and so?The Z4 shares its engine and transmissions with other cars too. Big deal. The trunk is indeed small (as is the one in my Miata), and I haven't operated the top yet. But the interior is certainly roomier than my Miata's (also roomier than a 2nd gen Miata's). I thought the transmission shifted quite nicely, and the engine makes good power. I can't speak about engine exhaust sound (the cars I've driven have been pretty early development/integration cars, and it's been quite a while at that). The ride/handling and braking are great. Remember, this is a sporty two seat roadster, not exactly the most practical daily driver (I know from experience with my two seater).

1. I wouldn't compare BMW components to the ones that come from the Cobalt and the Colorado/Canyon.

2. It's interesting to know you own a 1st generation Miata. I don't fit into any Miata (first or second generation) but I've always been able to get comfy in a BMW Z3 or Z4.

3. The Solstice has a very unconventional top mechanism. This is a make-or-break feature in a roadster.

Somehow you keep missing the point that BMW no longer makes 4-cylinder roadsters? Not missing it. Are you missing the point that BMW is playing in a different pricing category? Even the Miata costs more, and it uses 4 cylinders. Why is this hard? A Z4 costs well over 50% more (to well over 100% more, for the loaded up 3.0 versions) than a Solstice. Yes?1. I wouldn't compare BMW components to the ones that come from the Cobalt and the Colorado/Canyon.Would it be OK if it was the GM-sourced 5 speed auto that BMW used to great effect for years and years? Or, is it ok that the 5 speed in the Colorado is supplied by Aisin, who supplies Toyota with lots of goodies? Have you driven a manual Colorado? (I have, many many times...). The T56 out of our rude, crude F-cars still sees duty quite successfully in the Viper and Corvette...2. It's interesting to know you own a 1st generation Miata. I don't fit into any Miata (first or second generation) but I've always been able to get comfy in a BMW Z3 or Z4.Well, at 6'1+, I don't quite fit "comfortably" in the Miata. But in the spring/summer/fall, it has infinite headroom. :) The issue of knee/legroom between the door and steering wheel is a little more annoying, though it isn't bad if I keep my left foot on the dead pedal. With wide shoes on, though, that is tough to do, because my shoe is then partially behind the clutch pedal. :o *shrug*3. The Solstice has a very unconventional top mechanism. This is a make-or-break feature in a roadster.Yes, it is a little different. Like I said, I haven't operated it yet myself, so I can't comment from experience. But I don't think it will hold the car back from selling in the volumes they are after.

Not missing it. Are you missing the point that BMW is playing in a different pricing category? Even the Miata costs more, and it uses 4 cylinders.

Actually, the new Miata being introduced at Geneva will probably also have a sub-$20K MSRP.

Why is this hard? A Z4 costs well over 50% more (to well over 100% more, for the loaded up 3.0 versions) than a Solstice. Yes?Would it be OK if it was the GM-sourced 5 speed auto that BMW used to great effect for years and years? Or, is it ok that the 5 speed in the Colorado is supplied by Aisin, who supplies Toyota with lots of goodies? Have you driven a manual Colorado? (I have, many many times...). The T56 out of our rude, crude F-cars still sees duty quite successfully in the Viper and Corvette...

1. A BMW is worth more than a Pontiac.

2. BMW's use of GM's 5-speed slushbox is coming to an end.

3. You're awful defensive about using pick-up truck parts in a roadster.:lol:

Well, at 6'1+, I don't quite fit "comfortably" in the Miata. But in the spring/summer/fall, it has infinite headroom. :) The issue of knee/legroom between the door and steering wheel is a little more annoying, though it isn't bad if I keep my left foot on the dead pedal. With wide shoes on, though, that is tough to do, because my shoe is then partially behind the clutch pedal. :o *shrug*Yes, it is a little different.

Like I said....


Like I said, I haven't operated it yet myself, so I can't comment from experience. But I don't think it will hold the car back from selling in the volumes they are after.

Don't underestimate issues like top design and interior space in a roadster.

Z4 2.5L = 184HP/174tq
Z4 3.0L = 225HP/214tq
Z3 1.9L = 138hp/133tq

also the original base MSRP of the Z3 in 1996 was $28,750...remember that is in 1996 dollors so in todays money it would be 22% higher (assuming 2% inflation) or close to $36K for a 138hp sports car.

Solstice looks like a pretty good deal to me :thumb:


You're very close- according to an inflation calculator $28,750 in 1996 is equal to $33,216.02 in 2003.

GM could have easily badged the Saturn Sky as a Caddy instead and would have no problem selling the exact same car for $35,000.

Forget arguing with our friend here, it's like trying to hit a constantly moving target. Shoot down his points, and he won't address it and hit on something else. :rolleyes:

Solstice (at least, initially) has that coveted "reverse sticker shock" that we have been talking about lately, like with Chrysler's LX cars. You should've seen the look on NAIAS-goers' faces when told the Sky would be so affordable....those people were expecting a $30,000+ price tag, 4 cylinder or not.

As far as using parts-bin parts, who gives a rat's a$$ if it makes the damn car affordable and if they work. Hell, redzed's beloved reverse sticker-shocking 300C uses a Ram truck V8 and auto transmission for Pete's sake...who's complaining? :irk:

Somehow you keep missing the point that BMW no longer makes 4-cylinder roadsters?

Your right, now they make a 6 cyl. roadster with 4 cly power :lol:

You're very close- according to an inflation calculator $28,750 in 1996 is equal to $33,216.02 in 2003.

you are measuring a 7 year gap 96-03, I measured from 1995, the calandar year the Z3 came out to 2005 our current year. 10 year gap at 2% which is ver conservative some years it was closer to 3%

GM could have easily badged the Saturn Sky as a Caddy instead and would have no problem selling the exact same car for $35,000.

I could have seen that happening, swap the 4 cyl. for a 210hp DOHC 2.8L V6 add an A&S front end throw in a NAV system and heated leather and sell it for $35K. I would be right there with the TT & Z4

The pictures I've seen so far really impress me with this new car. For the right price, I wouldn't mind having a forced induction version in 06 (about what time I'll buy my next car). I'll keep an eye out for this one.


"well equiped" would NOT have roll up windows, and anywhere in California, it WOULD have a/c.


The Fiero all over again....get it right just in time to kill it because of poor sales. :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, in the other thread you mentioned your age :D just kidding ;)

I agree with your sentiment. You gotta have one premium model available, even if its marked up quite a bit.

The only thing is:
You guys mentioned the Miata and the Beemer Roadsters...in both of those I look like "The Big Show" from WWE when I'm sitting in them, and I'm only 5'9". I hope this car doesn't have that characteristic.

From pontiac website (http://www.pontiac.com/fuelingzone/index.jsp?deepLink=solstice&brand=home)

Click on the link then, click on the "Top Down Exhilaration" button.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."

oops!


BTW:
Who needs AC when you can put the top down?

From pontiac website (http://www.pontiac.com/fuelingzone/index.jsp?deepLink=solstice&brand=home)

Click on the link then, click on the "Top Down Exhilaration" button.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."

oops!


BTW:
Who needs AC when you can put the top down?
Anybody in the Southwest from the months of June to mid September.
Don't know about you but it's not fun cruising around in a convertible in 100+ degree temps. Feels like driving in an oven on broil.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."


Bob Lutz stated the starting price includes the 5 speed stick. Perhaps Pontiac needs to update its website. :)

Even if A/C is optional, what would the cost be? A couple hundred bucks? :rolleyes: The only thing that might hurt Solstice's sales out of the gate is dealer gouging. Let's cross our fingers.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."


How can a manual not be the standard transmission on a roadster?? :confused: This has to be how the majority of Solstices will be built (if all other roadsters serve as an example); as was mentioned, this must be a typo.

I'd also look for a lot of this stripped equipment to reappear a year or two after the car has been out when the "under $20k" hook is no longer such a factor (e.g. Dodge SRT-4 now sells for over $20k after using fastest car under $20,000 as a selling point).

At that price (and without huge dealer markups) I think the solstice will be a huge hit. Good job gm :thumb:

As usual, red has to come and piss on this parade. Oh well.

A little sidepoint on BMW's decision to discontinue 4-cylinder. I do not know the reasons why, but it is absolutely certain that V6 is no guarantee for a formula, and that 4-cylinder can equal success in a car. Just look at what Miata was able to do and the roadster it was able to build.

Actually, the new Miata being introduced at Geneva will probably also have a sub-$20K MSRP.

It'll be lucky to break 22-23K mark.



1. A BMW is worth more than a Pontiac. And still produces weak base I6 engines that lag behind in power from many 4-cylinder engines. A 168-HP I6 engine with a mere 155 lbs tq, who would've thought!

2. BMW's use of GM's 5-speed slushbox is coming to an end.

All good things come to an end eventually.

3. You're awful defensive about using pick-up truck parts in a roadster.:lol:

Did you say Nissan?

Touching back on the FI versions that are coming . They most likely will not be using superchargers as it was my understanding that , the supercharger in the Cobalt was just interim until the turbo ecotecs are released .

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed. :D
Yeah, but you still wont be intercooled, wont have the sodium filled valves, forged I-beam rods, piston oil squirters, or forged crankshaft. No high flow exhaust either, but thats easy enough to change

Did you guys know that the supercharged ecotechs require 7 quarts of synthetic oil? Made me take a second look at getting the service contract.

Touching back on the FI versions that are coming . They most likely will not be using superchargers as it was my understanding that , the supercharger in the Cobalt was just interim until the turbo ecotecs are released .
:confused: Turbo ecotecs have been out for a while on the Saabs.

:confused: Turbo ecotecs have been out for a while on the Saabs.

Could be that they are waiting to use the 2.4 VVT and turbo it, that would be sweet. :bow:

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed. :Dso the first day they go on sale i can get one installed?or do i have to wait for the kit to be made?

Could be that they are waiting to use the 2.4 VVT and turbo it, that would be sweet. :bow:
Mitsubishi is coming out with MIVEC on their 4g63 next year. I would love to see GM do the same.

From pontiac website (http://www.pontiac.com/fuelingzone/index.jsp?deepLink=solstice&brand=home)

Click on the link then, click on the "Top Down Exhilaration" button.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."

oops!


BTW:
Who needs AC when you can put the top down?

They must have updated it b/c now it just says "*Starting price does not include AC".

Chris

They must have updated it b/c now it just says "*Starting price does not include AC".

ChrisThey must have fixed it last night...because it was still there yesterday afternoon.

They lurk among us :eek:

As usual, red has to come and piss on this parade. Oh well.

A little sidepoint on BMW's decision to discontinue 4-cylinder. I do not know the reasons why, but it is absolutely certain that V6 is no guarantee for a formula, and that 4-cylinder can equal success in a car. Just look at what Miata was able to do and the roadster it was able to build.

Miatas aren't exactly as popular as they used to be. There are still plenty of those funny little Mazdaspeed Miatas still sitting around.


It'll be lucky to break 22-23K mark.

Anything could happen with the weak dollar, but there is a definite intention to compete with the Solstice's money-loosing $20K MSRP.


And still produces weak base I6 engines that lag behind in power from many 4-cylinder engines. A 168-HP I6 engine with a mere 155 lbs tq, who would've thought!

You must be quoting the specs for the 2.0 liter (actually 2.2 liter) inline-6 model that isn't sold in the U.S.A. Maybe Canada gets the smaller European base engine, but America doesn't.

The base engine in the U.S. Z4 is going to be a 215hp 2.5 liter inline-6.





All good things come to an end eventually.

Actually, GM's 5-speed automatic have very low torque capacities. This is precisely why normally aspirated Northstar is light on torque and why first year C6 Corvettes get prehistoric 4-speed slushboxes.



Did you say Nissan?

The odd thing about Nissan is that the 350Z's 6-speed manual is making its way to the Frontier (and Xterra), the not the other way around.

....The odd thing about Nissan is that the 350Z's 6-speed manual is making its way to the Frontier (and Xterra), the not the other way around.


Check the 350Z boards....those things eat 6 speeds every 5k miles or less....

Check the 350Z boards....those things eat 6 speeds every 5k miles or less....

I would suspect that American drivers are having more manual transmission worries than Europeans. The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm. With the 350Z, the situation is made worse by the poor availability of automatics in actual dealer inventory and the fact that Japanese manual transmissions aren't as tolerant of abuse as German gearboxes.

Any moron can destroy the clutch in a highpowered 350Z or a Maxima in under 35,000 miles. However, it normally takes well over 100,000 miles for the same sort of moron to ruin the clutch in a VW Jetta. When it comes to manual transmissions, the title of Greenday's latest album applies: "American Idiot."

....... "American Idiot."


This really explains a lot about your piss poor attitude....again, read the 350Z boards...it's a BAD TRANSMISSION NOT the driver..some of these guys aren't hardly getting home from a replacement before it breaks again.

BTW, if we Yankees are all so dumb, then WHY is it just the Nissan tinfoil tranny's that are breaking like this?

You have ZERO credibility due to your unhidden biases.....must be hell being so envious of America......

350z six speed etc

so is it just the clutch or the gear box? If it's the clutch who cares, you can spend $500 on a kevlar clutch and ruin in a few days if you don't break it in. You think the average 350z buyer breaks in the clutch/bed the brakes/change the oil often/varry revs/general rules that break in apply.

wow.. I just took a look at "my350z" and it sounds even worse over there then your avg Camaro board..... and thats saying alot! :D

The way I read it, it literally sounds like they are killing syncro's left and right.. or bending forks...

I wonder if the clutch isn't disengaging 100%, which may explain why alot of people are complaining about grinds, killing syncros and bent forks.. and revised clutch pedal assembly...

The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm.

OMFG I have just read it all! Redzed's DUMBEST all time post!! Look Nissan hugger, I did not know how to drive a stick AT ALL when I bought my M6 SS last March. I put 10,000 miles on that bad boy from March-December and I drove it HARD once I gained some confidence. There was never a SINGLE issue with the clutch or gearbox itself. Are you an ostrich? Get your head out of the sand. :rolleyes:

If Nissan is having trouble with their 6 speeds it's probably because it's a FAULTY PIECE. DUHHHHHH! There are hundreds of thousands of Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, etc. etc. that hold up just fine to whatever is thrown at them, including people who are just learning. Seriously did you read this drivel before you posted? Were you laughing or are you really serious???? :o

This really explains a lot about your piss poor attitude....again, read the 350Z boards...it's a BAD TRANSMISSION NOT the driver..some of these guys aren't hardly getting home from a replacement before it breaks again.

BTW, if we Yankees are all so dumb, then WHY is it just the Nissan tinfoil tranny's that are breaking like this?

You have ZERO credibility due to your unhidden biases.....must be hell being so envious of America......


I'll repeat what I said before:

The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm.

If you put the vast majority of Americans behind the wheel of a manual transmissioned car, they will be utterly perplexed at their first uphill stop sign. We live in a slushbox oriented society and when a 40-something gets his/her first manual transmissioned car (which ironically comes from a country that is equally in love with the automatic transmission - Japan) don't expect the clutch to last for 100,000 miles.

My message to all of the 6-speed whiners is simple. Don't be an American Idiot. Just admit to the salesman and yourself that you can't drive a stick and walk right past that 350Z Track to the 350Z Touring with an automatic.

I'll repeat what I said before:

The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm.

If you put the vast majority of Americans behind the wheel of a manual transmissioned car, they will be utterly perplexed at their first uphill stop sign. We live in a slushbox oriented society and when a 40-something gets his/her first manual transmissioned car (which ironically comes from a country that is equally in love with the automatic transmission - Japan) don't expect the clutch to last for 100,000 miles.

My message to all of the 6-speed whiners is simple. Don't be an American Idiot. Just admit to the salesman and yourself that you can't drive a stick and walk right past that 350Z Track to the 350Z Touring with an automatic.So what about the dozens of other manual transmissioned vehicles available in this country that don't necessarily have problems with premature breakage? Do the "American Idiot" drivers only buy 350Zs, while the rest of the manual drivers who are skilled manual tranny experts buy other cars?

Your point that many Americans are not good at manual transmissions is true. How that bears on the 350Z having problems (if it is) in greater proportion than other manual-equipped cars is a little hazy...

The best part of all this is if it were a GM car that was losing manual trannies at 5k, redzed would be bashing GM as fast and hard as he could.

:no:

So incredibly lame.

This is the worst stance I think I've ever seen taken here. :lol:

Here is a American who is driving a "stick" that is an american made car.

http://madawg.rh.rit.edu/idiot.wmv

Takes quite along time to overheat it too. Oh wait,Maybe its his first time driving a stick and does'nt know how?


:D :D :D :eek:

OMFG I have just read it all! Redzed's DUMBEST all time post!! Look Nissan hugger, I did not know how to drive a stick AT ALL when I bought my M6 SS last March. I put 10,000 miles on that bad boy from March-December and I drove it HARD once I gained some confidence. There was never a SINGLE issue with the clutch or gearbox itself. Are you an ostrich? Get your head out of the sand. :rolleyes:

1. Good for you.

2. You're talking about 10,000 miles:lol:?

3. When I ordered my Z28, I already knew how to drive a manual but I went for an automatic because (1) it was the same price and (2) you didn't lose any performance in a LS-1 when you went auto.

4. I didn't learn to drive a manual using any of my cars.:lol:


If Nissan is having trouble with their 6 speeds it's probably because it's a FAULTY PIECE. DUHHHHHH! There are hundreds of thousands of Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, etc. etc. that hold up just fine to whatever is thrown at them, including people who are just learning. Seriously did you read this drivel before you posted? Were you laughing or are you really serious???? :o

No clutch or gearbox is indestructible. These days, automatic transmissions generally enjoy longer trouble free lives than manuals - at least in the United States.

2. You're talking about 10,000 miles:lol:?



.

It gets even better!

You laugh at his example of 10,000 trouble free miles on a manual tranny... from an admitted beginner manual tranny driver.


But......... you blame failing Nissan trannys... at 5,000 or so miles... on...... novice American drivers?!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is the BEST THREAD EVER as far as stupid lame arguements go!!! :lol: :lol: :alert:

For the record, I like the Solstice. It's probably a blast to drive. :cool:

1. Good for you.

2. You're talking about 10,000 miles:lol:?

3. When I ordered my Z28, I already knew how to drive a manual but I went for an automatic because (1) it was the same price and (2) you didn't lose any performance in a LS-1 when you went auto.Point, please? So you are distinguishing yourself from the "American Idiots" who buy a stick when they can't drive one by stating that you bought an auto when you could drive a stick? What is the point of this?4. I didn't learn to drive a manual using any of my cars.:lol:Again, is there a point to this?
No clutch or gearbox is indestructible. These days, automatic transmissions generally enjoy longer trouble free lives than manuals - at least in the United States.Really? Interesting if true. Have you seen an article or anything about this (seriously) or do you just think it is true? And if it is true, then good - automatics are getting better. Since cars are designed to be driven 150k+ miles nowadays, one would hope the transmissions would be designed to last as long as the rest of the car should.

I'll repeat what I said before:

The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm.

Label me into the "not most Americans" group you have going. First manual transmission car I owned was a brand new 1995 Z28. Transmission was absolutely solid. Handled a tremendous about of abuse way over and above what the OEM and GM had intended. Only time the transmission hiccupped was obviously self induced: 550+ RWHP, 28" slicks, launching at 6000+ rpm.

Your classification of American's not being able to drive manual transmissions doesn't hold much of any weight. While maybe something you believe in, doesn't make it any way factual.

Point, please? So you are distinguishing yourself from the "American Idiots" who buy a stick when they can't drive one by stating that you bought an auto when you could drive a stick? What is the point of this?

Just because I can drive a manual doesn't mean I have to. I often get the feeling that some folks buy manuals just to prove something.


Again, is there a point to this?Really?

It's better to learn on someone else's car than your own car.


Interesting if true. Have you seen an article or anything about this (seriously) or do you just think it is true? And if it is true, then good - automatics are getting better. Since cars are designed to be driven 150k+ miles nowadays, one would hope the transmissions would be designed to last as long as the rest of the car should.

Let's put it this way. You'd have good reason to be angry if your automatic bit the dust at 99,999 miles, but if your clutch goes out at that mileage, you have no reason to complain. There's a reason why most new car warranties don't cover the clutch in manual transmissioned car. It's a "wear related item."

Just because I can drive a manual doesn't mean I have to. I often get the feeling that some folks buy manuals just to prove something.


What does this prove? Some people perfer manuals for many reasons, including, but not limited to:

1) Manuals can be more fun to drive.
2) Manuals can be faster than an equally equiped automatic in many cases.
3) Manuals almost always get better milage.
4) Manual cars are stolen considerably less often, because many theives can't drive stick. I've read this in several reports about stolen vehicles.




It's better to learn on someone else's car than your own car.

Only if you are a self-absorbed, immature, inconsiderate person... but then again, I will take into account the source of this statement...

I often get the feeling that some folks buy manuals just to prove something.




wow... Now you are really starting to sound like someone that has issues himself..


either way, its seems Nissan is doing something wrong, since it appears their manual tranny's are failing left and right.

It gets even better!

You laugh at his example of 10,000 trouble free miles on a manual tranny... from an admitted beginner manual tranny driver.

Show me a car with 110,000 miles on the orignal clutch and I'm impressed by the car....and the gentle driver.



But......... you blame failing Nissan trannys... at 5,000 or so miles... on...... novice American drivers?!

Hey, an idiot can destroy a clutch in practically no time by slippin' it on the interstate. America's highways are populated with plenty of middle-aged folks that have driving skills that would embarrass a novice. I wouldn't get bent out of shape unless Nissan 350Z owner in Great Britain start reporting problems.

Show me a car with 110,000 miles on the orignal clutch and I'm impressed by the car....and the gentle driver.


What the hell are you talking about?

His example was 10,000 on the clutch, not 110,000...

And we are comparing just about every manual tranny in the industry today to the one in your glorious Nissan that fails regularly.




Hey, an idiot can destroy a clutch in practically no time by slippin' it on the interstate. America's highways are populated with plenty of middle-aged folks that have driving skills that would embarrass a novice. I wouldn't get bent out of shape unless Nissan 350Z owner in Great Britain start reporting problems.

Ya, anyone can rip up a clutch if they want to... but by your logic... only the people in the entire U.S. that are bad enough to do it are buying Nissan 350Z's... and nothing else.... otherwise, we'd have manual trannys failing from every manufacturer out there on an equal basis... which is obviously not happening.


You have reached a whole new level of idiocy. :bow:

Hey, an idiot can destroy a clutch in practically no time by slippin' it on the interstate. America's highways are populated with plenty of middle-aged folks that have driving skills that would embarrass a novice. I wouldn't get bent out of shape unless Nissan 350Z owner in Great Britain start reporting problems.OK, so you still haven't answered my earlier point about what this has to do with Nissans apparently failing (I have no idea if they are or not, but that is the point being discussed here) at a higher rate than other manuals. Can't really blame that on American drivers. If they fail more here than in Britain, that might have something to do with drivers here. But if they fail here more than other makes (even just other sports cars) here, how exactly is that the fault of American drivers buying a manual "to prove something"??

This just might be the most retarded post by Red yet...


would suspect that American drivers are having more manual transmission worries than Europeans. The sad fact is that most Americans grow up driving automatics, spend most of their adult lives driving automatics, and then get sucked into buying a manual-transmissioned sports car out of misplaced enthusiasm. With the 350Z, the situation is made worse by the poor availability of automatics in actual dealer inventory and the fact that Japanese manual transmissions aren't as tolerant of abuse as German gearboxes.

Any moron can destroy the clutch in a highpowered 350Z or a Maxima in under 35,000 miles. However, it normally takes well over 100,000 miles for the same sort of moron to ruin the clutch in a VW Jetta. When it comes to manual transmissions, the title of Greenday's latest album applies: "American Idiot."

:rolleyes: :lol:

Its not the clutches though that are going.. its the syncro's and forks.

I stand by my guess that the clutches are not 100% disengaging.. which is puttign stress on synco's and forks. which is why not only are they replacing the whole trans, but also a revised clutch pedal assembly they released

Its not the clutches though that are going.. its the syncro's and forks.

I stand by my guess that the clutches are not 100% disengaging.. which is puttign stress on synco's and forks. which is why not only are they replacing the whole trans, but also a revised clutch pedal assembly they releasedNO! You no tell me damn right!! It is obviously the stupid "American Idiot" drivers!!!111!!One!1 Admit it or I will pluck out some hair from your left eyebrow!!

:D

OK, so you still haven't answered my earlier point about what this has to do with Nissans apparently failing (I have no idea if they are or not, but that is the point being discussed here) at a higher rate than other manuals.

Actually, Darth Xed started the whole rumor about Z-car manual transmissions.

Can't really blame that on American drivers. If they fail more here than in Britain, that might have something to do with drivers here. But if they fail here more than other makes (even just other sports cars) here,(Which is some more "wisdom" from Darth Xed.)how exactly is that the fault of American drivers buying a manual "to prove something"??

How can I explain this to you? The vast majority of vehicles sold in the U.S.A. are equipped with automatic transmissions, somthing that has been true for decades. The vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions, although automatics have better availability than a few years ago. Unlike Europeans, most Americans just don't know how to shift for themselves and many of the ones that do just aren't very good at it.

Actually, Darth Xed started the whole rumor about Z-car manual transmissions.

Um... Buzzzzzzzzzz You are totally wrong. Check again, genius.

redzed: The odd thing about Nissan is that the 350Z's 6-speed manual is making its way to the Frontier (and Xterra), the not the other way around.



Doug Harden: Check the 350Z boards....those things eat 6 speeds every 5k miles or less....



(Which is some more "wisdom" from Darth Xed.)

Wrong again....


How can I explain this to you? The vast majority of vehicles sold in the U.S.A. are equipped with automatic transmissions, somthing that has been true for decades. The vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions, although automatics have better availability than a few years ago. Unlike Europeans, most Americans just don't know how to shift for themselves and many of the ones that do just aren't very good at it.

What part are you not understanding? Can you really not be able to comprehend this?

If the American Drivers were the problem... ALL OTHER MANUFACTURERS WOULD BE HAVING PROBLEMS... they ARE NOT. Therefore... the weak link in this chain is the Nissan Tranny...

Show me a car with 110,000 miles on the orignal clutch and I'm impressed by the car....and the gentle driver.
I didn't really want to get in on this but...

Why would the car need to have 110,000 miles on the original clutch? Do you demand that the brake pads last this long as well? Maybe you shouldn't have to replace the air filter or oil filter until 100,000 miles. Maybe the cars should go 100,000 miles on the original tank of gas as well.

You must enjoy posting ridiculous arguments in this forum. I find it inconceivable that anybody with more than a shred of intelligence could actually make any of these arguments with a straight face. Or rather I should say claims, not arguments. Arguments are supported by some sort of evidence.

From pontiac website (http://www.pontiac.com/fuelingzone/index.jsp?deepLink=solstice&brand=home)

Click on the link then, click on the "Top Down Exhilaration" button.

It states "*Starting price does not include AC or manual transmission."

oops!


BTW:
Who needs AC when you can put the top down?

No AC means no effective defrost either. Driving in the rain would not be fun.

Actually, Darth Xed started the whole rumor about Z-car manual transmissions.

(Which is some more "wisdom" from Darth Xed.)

How can I explain this to you? The vast majority of vehicles sold in the U.S.A. are equipped with automatic transmissions, somthing that has been true for decades. The vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions, although automatics have better availability than a few years ago. Unlike Europeans, most Americans just don't know how to shift for themselves and many of the ones that do just aren't very good at it.Do you deliberately dodge questions, or is it just a lack of reading comprehension?

Whether or not the really are failing at a higher rate, for the purposes of this discussion we have to assume they are. YOU seem to be implying that it is the fault of Americans driving mostly automatics (which they certainly do, but so what). What Darth and I are trying to point out is that if that is the case, then that would explain manual transmissions IN GENERAL having higher failure rates here (than, say, England). But Americans being automatic-lovers/poor manual drivers WOULD NOT explain a higher failure rate in just the 350Z while other cars fare just fine.

You might have inadvertently hit on part of the answer earlier when you mentioned that "Japanese manuals can't handle the abuse as well as German manuals" or something like that. You also said something about dealers not having many automatic 350Zs, which could force a disproportionate number of non-manual drivers to spring for the stick shift versions. Those might actually be valid reasons for the problem (though you then say that Darth imagined the whole problem to begin with, so which is it?).

But rather than use those possibly valid reasons, you seem to keep implying that it is the poor American driver who is causing the 350Z to fail at this elevated rate (if it is happening at all). Again, one contributing factor could be the lack of automatic availability COMBINED with the lack of basic manual tranny skills, but surely you have to see that this lack of skill ALONE would not cause a problem in 350Zs alone; it would trend across all cars with manuals.

Actually, Darth Xed started the whole rumor about Z-car manual transmissions.

(Which is some more "wisdom" from Darth Xed.)

How can I explain this to you? The vast majority of vehicles sold in the U.S.A. are equipped with automatic transmissions, somthing that has been true for decades. The vast majority of vehicles sold in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions, although automatics have better availability than a few years ago. Unlike Europeans, most Americans just don't know how to shift for themselves and many of the ones that do just aren't very good at it.

People that prefer automatics tend to stick with them, and the revers is true of manual trannies. I, myself have never owned a car with an automatic. I have driven automatics that are in a captured fleet deal or company car situation..

Blaming the owner is not the first place to look if there's a durability issue earmarked by a high failure rate of the same parts on a regular basis.

Most Japanese and other Asian manual trannies are not robust in nature. Synchros and shiftforks? Can be the operator, but it could be insufficiently validated materials or design as the root cause.

By and large American and German designs manuals are the best manuals for performance and torque handling.

I can't say the 350z's are the choice of "American Idiots". That may be how you characterize them, but I'm not going there.

Do you deliberately dodge questions, or is it just a lack of reading comprehension?

Whether or not the really are failing at a higher rate, for the purposes of this discussion we have to assume they are. YOU seem to be implying that it is the fault of Americans driving mostly automatics (which they certainly do, but so what). What Darth and I are trying to point out is that if that is the case, then that would explain manual transmissions IN GENERAL having higher failure rates here (than, say, England). But Americans being automatic-lovers/poor manual drivers WOULD NOT explain a higher failure rate in just the 350Z while other cars fare just fine.

You might have inadvertently hit on part of the answer earlier when you mentioned that "Japanese manuals can't handle the abuse as well as German manuals" or something like that. You also said something about dealers not having many automatic 350Zs, which could force a disproportionate number of non-manual drivers to spring for the stick shift versions. Those might actually be valid reasons for the problem (though you then say that Darth imagined the whole problem to begin with, so which is it?).

But rather than use those possibly valid reasons, you seem to keep implying that it is the poor American driver who is causing the 350Z to fail at this elevated rate (if it is happening at all). Again, one contributing factor could be the lack of automatic availability COMBINED with the lack of basic manual tranny skills, but surely you have to see that this lack of skill ALONE would not cause a problem in 350Zs alone; it would trend across all cars with manuals.

I think what's really bothering you is that someone would suggest that America is ''the land of the slushbox."

I think what's really bothering you is that someone would suggest that America is ''the land of the slushbox."For the love of God, do you even read? :think::confused: I readily admitted that Americans certainly prefer automatics; there is nothing to argue about there. It certainly sucks, but that's just the way it is. I'm not saying it isn't so. What I'm saying is simply this: that fact ALONE could not explain a higher failure rate on the 350Z vs. other cars. Are you just ignoring my question/comment to be irritating? That really does make you seem like a teenage troll, and I'm trying to discuss this with you as though you are not. You are making that very difficult (impossible, actually) to do. Do you see the point I am making, or not?

Or, in the words of Jules, "English mother******; do you SPEAK IT?!" (Sorry, I just saw Pulp Fiction in its entirety for the first time last weekend :o).

The judgement (http://s87266680.onlinehome.us/avatars/forum/ban_him.jpg) is in on redzed.

People that prefer automatics tend to stick with them, and the revers is true of manual trannies. I, myself have never owned a car with an automatic. I have driven automatics that are in a captured fleet deal or company car situation..

You'd love Europe because every single rental car is a manual - unless you're willing to pay through the nose.


Blaming the owner is not the first place to look if there's a durability issue earmarked by a high failure rate of the same parts on a regular basis.

Unless I see a service bulletin or advisory, I wouldn't start using terms like "high failure rate."


Most Japanese and other Asian manual trannies are not robust in nature. Synchros and shiftforks? Can be the operator, but it could be insufficiently validated materials or design as the root cause.

Isn't the Solstice getting a 5-speed Aisin tranny instead of a the original Solstic concept's Tremec (license built BorgWarner) T-56? Did the CTS lose its Getrag 5-speed for a 6-speed Aisin.

Hmm.....BorgWarner.....German......Getrag......Ger man......Aisin......Japanese.....Hmm?



By and large American and German designs manuals are the best manuals for performance and torque handling.

1. Other than New Process Gear (originally a GM/Chrysler joint venture), I can't think of very many American companies that design and build manual transmissions.

2. Is it ironic that the Getrag 5-speed in the Cadillac CTS didn't have the torque capacity to handle the 3.6 liter HFV6 but the Aisin 6-speed did. Not really, because the only BMW that will definitely retain the Getrag 5-speed is the 115hp 116i. The rest of the BMWs get 6-speed ZF units.

I can't say the 350z's are the choice of "American Idiots". That may be how you characterize them, but I'm not going there.

I think the comment applied to "people who should know better than to buy a manual, but do anyway."

For the love of God, do you even read? :think::confused: I readily admitted that Americans certainly prefer automatics; there is nothing to argue about there. It certainly sucks, but that's just the way it is. I'm not saying it isn't so. What I'm saying is simply this: that fact ALONE could not explain a higher failure rate on the 350Z vs. other cars. Are you just ignoring my question/comment to be irritating? That really does make you seem like a teenage troll, and I'm trying to discuss this with you as though you are not. You are making that very difficult (impossible, actually) to do. Do you see the point I am making, or not?

Or, in the words of Jules, "English mother******; do you SPEAK IT?!" (Sorry, I just saw Pulp Fiction in its entirety for the first time last weekend :o).

Its not just the 350z with tranny problems. Most of the higher powered japanese cars have issues. Look at the wrx and lancer for 2 more examples.

For the WRX, and other cars, they beefed up their 5 speeds after those inital years of weak 5 speeds.. I assume that helped (don't actively follow the WRX)...

and I know the STI has stronger 6 speeds.. but again, I don't follow them closely.





Its not just the 350z with tranny problems. Most of the higher powered japanese cars have issues. Look at the wrx and lancer for 2 more examples.

Its not just the 350z with tranny problems. Most of the higher powered japanese cars have issues. Look at the wrx and lancer for 2 more examples.Thanks. But that doesn't matter at the moment. I said in an earlier post that I have no idea if the 350Z really IS having problems (let alone the other two you mentioned). The point is that if it IS isolated to a particular car, how could one blame that on the lack of manual transmission skills in the American public (which redzed seems to be implying)? For all I know the 350Z could have the most bulletproof tranny ever; I was arguing with his logic, not trying to say it does or does not have a problem with its gearbox.

I happen to know some american who drove a 93 Ford ranger to a current 185K and it is on its second clutch.And its still running strong.


This is by far the best pissin' match I've followed on z28. :cool: .

I happen to know some american who drove a 93 Ford ranger to a current 185K and it is on its second clutch.And its still running strong.


This is by far the best pissin' match I've followed on z28. :cool: .

I had a LT1 Z28, spun the tires 3 times a day :D , when I sold it at 111,000 it had the original clutch and worked perfect.

I had a LT1 Z28, spun the tires 3 times a day :D , when I sold it at 111,000 it had the original clutch and worked perfect.


No kiddin', Original owner?

Bought a 1989 IROC convertible 5-speed new in December 1988. Drove it to 138K on the original clutch.

Sold it to a good friend who has 187K on it now, still on the original clutch. It is beyond wafer thin, but it's still going. He's trying for 200K before he replaces it.

Unless I see a service bulletin or advisory, I wouldn't start using terms like "high failure rate.".

High failure won't necessarily trigger a bulletin nor advisory. If a dealer replaces a transmission with little question or protraction, well that might indicate a "known" issue.


Isn't the Solstice getting a 5-speed Aisin tranny instead of a the original Solstic concept's Tremec (license built BorgWarner) T-56? Did the CTS lose its Getrag 5-speed for a 6-speed Aisin.

Hmm.....BorgWarner.....German......Getrag......Ger man......Aisin......Japanese.....Hmm?.

Merely the company or manufacturing country doesn't indicate a quality or lack of. Manufacturers work with suppliers on the spec for a transmission. Getrag makes transmissions and transaxles for many companies, Nissan among them for the Slyline and AWD for Supras... Porsche 911, GT3, Carrera Cup cars... BMW M trannies were predominately Getrag based at one time...may well still be. Perhaps the 350Z is a Getrag too..? Aisin is mostly in automatics but it seems they have a nice 5 speed dialled up for Solstice.. I figure it'll be a pretty good match for the motor.

I'd call the TTC " Tremec " transmissions, particularly the 6 speed to be Warner Gear designs and came with the Borg Warner buyout by Mexican DESC < part parent company of TTC " TTC is a joint venture with DESC and Dana... a Mex-American deal. The T56 is a very good design and depending how you load it partwise, from pretty good to great service and performance.

The only anecdotal trannie concerns problems I have heard repeatidly regarding the 350z have been 3 gear related for a large part. Synchro's or shift forks, or blocker rings could be an issue. Hamfisted driver's could be the culprit too. It just isn't the first place to look. Might be linkage related.

Validate the product and make sure it isn't design, materials, workmanship before pointing at the owners because they are " Idiots".

There's a lot more folks in the US that can use a manual trannie than you might think. Your statement that IF there ans issue, in MUST be the American Idiot that should have bought an automatic. This is somewhat like a conversation I had with a poor individual that shelled out a wad of cashe at 40k miles to replace his Acura engine. He told me "It had to be something I did because japanese cars never break. Don't tell anyone or they'll think I abuse my cars."

Since ol' redzed is too afraid to see the truth....here's a link to make it easier for him to stop swinging from Nissan's n*tz....

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=39553

Since ol' redzed is too afraid to see the truth....here's a link to make it easier for him to stop swinging from Nissan's n*tz....

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=39553

Holy crap--I just looked at this. Most of them at or under 10K miles. If this had been a lowly Chevy, there would have been a lynching.

I guess the import kool-aid is some pretty good stuff!

Since ol' redzed is too afraid to see the truth....here's a link to make it easier for him to stop swinging from Nissan's n*tz....

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=39553

I suppose my sources were pretty accurate in their description. Thanks for the link... seems pretty widespread.

It also would seem clear that that forum has some folks that like their car and it's certainly a shame to see them disappointed. They don't seem like "idiots" to me. I wish they were driving something else, but maybe someday...

350z isn't what I like in a car, but you gotta feel for another performance enthusiast facing the letdown and hassle.

Since ol' redzed is too afraid to see the truth....here's a link to make it easier for him to stop swinging from Nissan's n*tz....

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=39553


redzed will claim that that site is nothing but "idiot americans" , and then probably claim something to the effect that they are all false reports from employees of GM, trying to cause the mighty Nissan some trouble. :lol:

Well well look what I started. :eek:

I kinda figured out redzed failed Logic 101 at the local community college when he claimed Cadillac's DTS (class leader in sales) was "uncompetitive", but at least I could see why he might make that claim (the platform is a few years old). I have no chance in hell of ever following this shifting hodge-podge of "reasoning" however. I think it's time we all find the "block posts by____" option...there's no point of even reading this stuff anymore.

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........
Talk about ..... :Owned: :)

High failure won't necessarily trigger a bulletin nor advisory. If a dealer replaces a transmission with little question or protraction, well that might indicate a "known" issue.

Isn't it amazing that the sunroof of early production 2004 Pathfinder Armadas(yes, the sunroof) generated multiple advisories, but there isn't any legitimate papertrail for the supposed 350Z transmission issues.





The only anecdotal trannie concerns problems I have heard repeatidly regarding the 350z have been 3 gear related for a large part. Synchro's or shift forks, or blocker rings could be an issue. Hamfisted driver's could be the culprit too. It just isn't the first place to look. Might be linkage related.

Considering the aftermarket culture that's sprouted up around the 350Z, I think that the issue of "hamfisted drivers" is more of a probability than a possibility. The warranty-voiding goofballs are the ones that always cry the loudest when a combination of abuse, modifications and inept driving break their car.:lol:


There's a lot more folks in the US that can use a manual trannie than you might think. Your statement that IF there ans issue, in MUST be the American Idiot that should have bought an automatic.

There are plenty of people who are just kidding themselves when they think they can actually drive a manual.

This is somewhat like a conversation I had with a poor individual that shelled out a wad of cashe at 40k miles to replace his Acura engine. He told me "It had to be something I did because japanese cars never break. Don't tell anyone or they'll think I abuse my cars."

Acura has a 4 year/ 50,000 mile warranty, so if you friend had to shell out "a wad of cash" at 40K miles it was either because (a) the warranty had been voided by abuse/modifications, (b) the mileage was really over 50K instead of the supposed 40K, or (c) the car was over 4 years old, in which case a mileage of 40K is hard to believe anyway.

Since ol' redzed is too afraid to see the truth....here's a link to make it easier for him to stop swinging from Nissan's n*tz....

22 pages of people with, sometimes multiple transmission replacements...on only this ONE website. Not to mention un-alignable front ends, etc........

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=39553

How many pages have been devoted to the topic of LS-1 piston slap?

redzed it really doesn't matter because you can still drive those LS1s but with a burnt transmission you can't. Also why don't answer a question? :rolleyes:

How many cases of piston slap caused someone to destroy the engine, only to have one replaced, and yet have that engine be junked again?
Face it Red, you cant say a thing, its over.

Isn't it amazing that the sunroof of early production 2004 Pathfinder Armadas(yes, the sunroof) generated multiple advisories, but there isn't any legitimate papertrail for the supposed 350Z transmission issues..

Actually no. It's not amazing at all. Sunroof issues won't make the evening news... recalls and widespread admissions of powertrain issues will.

I don't work for Nissan nor a Nissan dealer. What they have in their service dispatches is not something I'm aware of. I might however feel 22 pages on one of probaly a few websites dedicated to the 350z might be some indicator of a possible durability or design issue.

Swapping out a transmission rather than rebuiliding can be a real strong indicator that the manufacturer knows or suspects something is wrong. That or all the spare replacement parts have dried up to to numeours failures. They would either want the failed unit back to inspect or want it back to make the supplier pay for it. Transmissions are usually cheaper to rebuild than replace. Owners and, more to the point...potential owners have a different attitude to an accessory issue than a drivetrain issue.

Considering the aftermarket culture that's sprouted up around the 350Z, I think that the issue of "hamfisted drivers" is more of a probability than a possibility. The warranty-voiding goofballs are the ones that always cry the loudest when a combination of abuse, modifications and inept driving break their car.:lol:.


There are plenty of people who are just kidding themselves when they think they can actually drive a manual. ..

Your experience differs from mine, I suppose. I do hang with a lot more roadracing folks than most.. still don't think that's it when discussing the 350z deal. I did my fair share of SCCA racing in A and B production classes... maybe we just hang in different circles.

Are you suggesting that an inordinate number of American drivers that are dyed in the wool powershifters are drawn to that car? Why? It's a slow car. I figure if a dealer pulled the trans and saw a scorched flywheel there would be warranty denials, not replacements much less some multi replacements.




Acura has a 4 year/ 50,000 mile warranty, so if you friend had to shell out "a wad of cash" at 40K miles it was either because (a) the warranty had been voided by abuse/modifications, (b) the mileage was really over 50K instead of the supposed 40K, or (c) the car was over 4 years old, in which case a mileage of 40K is hard to believe anyway.

Five year old car, older woman driver... not the "modding" kind of streetracer owner :rolleyes: I would have asked for some adjustment from the manufacturer but she seemed to feel as you seem to... Imports don't brake unless an "idiot" drives them... :confused:

How many pages have been devoted to the topic of LS-1 piston slap?

Far too many, but folks rarely understand what cold engine slap is, and even fewer understand what it isn't.

Nonetheless, what does it have to do with Nissan 350z's of American car owners?

Try to stay focused. Smokescreening doesn't support your premise.

I'm not unaware that some people abuse their cars. I don't need convincing about obvious, matter of fact situations.

I'm unconvinced that you are anywhere approaching reality when you seem to suggest that either :

A- No issue exists or existed with 350z manuals because you'd know about it.

OR...

B- If an issue exists it's because 350z's could only have "American Idiot" induced problems.

How many cases of piston slap caused someone to destroy the engine, only to have one replaced, and yet have that engine be junked again?
Face it Red, you cant say a thing, its over.

You don't remember how hot the Australian were over piston slap related oil consumption. More than a few Aussies didn't check their oil levels, ruined their LS-1 V8s and got free rebuilds from Holden. Now I'm the first one to say that if you don't check your oil, you should bear some responsibility for ruining your own engine.

Considering the aftermarket culture that's sprouted up around the 350Z, I think that the issue of "hamfisted drivers" is more of a probability than a possibility.

Oh, ok. So F-body and Mustang manuals don't seem to break nearly as much because the aftermarket for those cars doesn't compare to that of the 350Z. :lol: And so in turn, the only "American idiot" manual drivers who modify their cars drive 350Zs and nothing else. I just want to make sure I know where you're coming from. Just tell me yes or no, is that your assertion?




If so, seriously, step away from the crack pipe. You've been thoroughly :Owned: in this thread. Take your medicine and re-group.

Actually no. It's not amazing at all. Sunroof issues won't make the evening news... recalls and transmission do. I don't work for Nissan nor a Nissan dealer. What they have in their service dispatches is not something I'm aware of. I might however feel 22 pages on one of probaly a few websites dedicated to the 350z might be some indicator of a possible durability or design issue.

So you're saying that a company that takes sunroof issues so seriously would let a gearbox problem slip under the radar? Somehow I don't think so.


Your experience differs from mine, I suppose. I do hang with a lot more roadracing folks than most.. still don't think that's it when discussing the 350z deal. I did my fair share of SCCA racing in A and B production classes... maybe we just hang in different circles.

It's funny that you don't remember how F-body power steering pumps used overheat before Chevy made a steering pump cooler optional.


Are you suggesting that an inordinate number of American drivers that are dyed in the wool powershifters are drawn to that car? Why? It's a slow car. I figure if a dealer pulled the trans and saw a scorched flywheel ther would be warranty denials, not replacements much less some multi replacements.

1. "Slow car?" A 6-speed 350Z is just about as quick as an unmodified 6-speed LT-1 F4.

2. Try reading posts sometimes. Apparently, there was enough suspicion of warranty voiding abuse/modifications that some posters had to pay for transmission replacements upfront - with reimbursement to follow only if the claim was legitimate. That's not a normal warranty proceedure, unless the company is dealing with abuse, modifications or fraud.



Five year old car, older woman driver... not the "modding" kind of streetracer owner :rolleyes: I would have asked for some adjustment from the manufacturer but she seemed to feel as you seem to... Imports don't brake unless an "idiot" drives them... :confused:

It's not the company's fault if a consumer is too timid to ask for some "good will."

Far too many, but folks rarely understand what cold engine slap is, and even fewer understand what it isn't.


I understand what "piston slap" is. Do you?

You don't remember how hot the Australian were over piston slap related oil consumption. More than a few Aussies didn't check their oil levels, ruined their LS-1 V8s and got free rebuilds from Holden. Now I'm the first one to say that if you don't check your oil, you should bear some responsibility for ruining your own engine.

Cold engine piston slap and oil consumption are not related. ;)

I understand what "piston slap" is. Do you?

Yes. Not sure you do though...

Stay out of the deep end of the pool.

Oh, ok. So F-body and Mustang manuals don't seem to break nearly as much because the aftermarket for those cars doesn't compare to that of the 350Z. :lol: And so in turn, the only "American idiot" manual drivers who modify their cars drive 350Zs and nothing else. I just want to make sure I know where you're coming from. Just tell me yes or no, is that your assertion?


1. The F4 has been gone so long that there will be precious few F-bodies left under factory warranty by the end of this year.:lol:

2. There is no statistical comparision between the failure rates for Tremec-build transmissions in F-bodies/Mustangs and the 6-speed in the 350Z. Unless you've done some "original research:lol:," your arguement is going nowhere.

1. The F4 has been gone so long that there will be precious few F-bodies left under factory warranty by the end of this year.:lol:

WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WARRANTIES? More smokescreening?????

2. There is no statistical comparision between the failure rates for Tremec-build transmissions in F-bodies/Mustangs and the 6-speed in the 350Z.

I know of no "statistical" comparison available online, but then again I've never seen a 22 PAGE thread on CamaroZ28.com, or Stangnet, or anywhere else, about failing transmissions.

your arguement is going nowhere.

MY argument is going nowhere???? I have to hand it to you sir, you are a barrel of laughs. I'm wondering why you choose to ignore every rational and logical thought about this. And you STILL didn't answer my question, is it your assertion that the aftermarket and modding is more common among 350Z's with manuals than among F-bodies and Mustangs with manuals, yes or no? I think you're afraid to say yes because of how utterly dim-witted you'll appear to be.

Unless you've done some "original research," your arguement is going nowhere.
Therefore it also follows that all of your arguments have gone nowhere either. Maybe you should replace the :lol:'s in all of your posts with your own "original research."

Cold engine piston slap and oil consumption are not related. ;)

According to the Aussies, they were.

Hey, how about that Solstice? Great little roadster at an awesome price :D




....isn't that what this thread is supposed to be about? :confused: :o :(

I can't wait to see one at the dealer and sit in it and pretend its mine. I will bite the first salesman who tries to remove me. :death:

According to the Aussies, they were.

Then they were wrong mate.

Would you think the two are related? If yes...how?

Then they were wrong mate.

Would you think the two are related? If yes...how?

I can't believe you don't see the connection between "piston slap" and a car burning oil?

My z28 slaps pretty loudly on these really cold winter mornings, but I have never burned any oil, at least none that I can notice. I know these engines are supposed to burn oil to some degree, but I haven't really experienced any significant reduction in oil at all, and my car has 35,000 miles on it. I check it very often as well. Maybe its just me :shrug:

I can't believe you don't see the connection between "piston slap" and a car burning oil?

Another instance where you oughta' know WTF you're talking about before you spout off.....

The oil usage issue has NOTHING to do with piston slap......it was an insufficient crankcase breathing / PVC issue, which has since been rectified a couple of years ago. Oil was being sucked into the throttle body and ingested.

Piston slap does not indicate any problem beyond being a nuisance noise.... IF the driver properly warms the engine before aggressive driving.....simply a difference of thermal expansion of dissimilar materials.....but that too has been addressed.

It's truly amazing that you continue to overlook a severe design flaw in the Nissan transmissions and blame the drivers.....

You might wanna drop your one man attack on GM and move on...it's really getting quite old.

I can't believe you don't see the connection between "piston slap" and a car burning oil?

Well believe it. Cold engine piston slap has ZERO to do with oil consumption.

So, if you please, explain the connection. Should be rather easy as you infer it's obvious.

It's your red herring so cook it for us...

Ignoratio Elenchi :tired:

I think he left his proof in his Internet cars that he could/would not produce a picture of in another thread. Second thread that I have noticed he ruined.

[QUOTE=Bob Cosby]My lawnmower has more torque than an S2000. :cool:

Have you driven one? It really isn't that bad. Oh and I will race your lawnmower any day of the week. :D

Piston slap does not indicate any problem beyond being a nuisance noise.... IF the driver properly warms the engine before aggressive driving.....simply a difference of thermal expansion of dissimilar materials.....but that too has been addressed.


The "piston slap" issue was not limited to the alluminum block V8 and I'm not sure it's gone for good.

Have you driven one? It really isn't that bad. Oh and I will race your lawnmower any day of the week. :D
LOL. No, I haven't, and my comment was certainly meant in jest.

That said, the S2000 doesn't have much torque, but what it lacks in that department, it makes up for in RPM. HP = rpm * torque, so if you can make even a modest amount of torque at high rpm, and then gear the car to take advantage of it, you'll get quite a kick in the pants (so to speak).

The "piston slap" issue was not limited to the alluminum block V8 and I'm not sure it's gone for good.

Do you enjoy getting slapped around?

The aluminum block LS1 uses cast iron liners, so if it's a cast iron block or an aluminum block with cast iron sleeves, there's still the aluminum pistons in each.

The LS* based engines are leaders in technology and are the envy of other manufacturers.

The Dodge boys even copied most of the design in their (semi) HEMI (they had one of the LS1's in their design area where the (semi) HEMI was designed).

Your just digging yourself in deeper....in an area where you have no business going.....unless you enjoy the punishment.

LOL. No, I haven't, and my comment was certainly meant in jest.

That said, the S2000 doesn't have much torque, but what it lacks in that department, it makes up for in RPM. HP = rpm * torque, so if you can make even a modest amount of torque at high rpm, and then gear the car to take advantage of it, you'll get quite a kick in the pants (so to speak).I learned all about the ye ole saying "no replacement for displacement" owning a 3.8L Mustang (2002). From a line, I did great, from a roll, I was even with cars with half the engine (s2000 and rsx specifically).
I'm sure you'd feel slow in it, but I wouldn't. Relatively speaking, they're pretty fast.

I learned all about the ye ole saying "no replacement for displacement" owning a 3.8L Mustang (2002). From a line, I did great, from a roll, I was even with cars with half the engine (s2000 and rsx specifically).
I'm sure you'd feel slow in it, but I wouldn't. Relatively speaking, they're pretty fast.

The S2000 is relatively fast no matter how you look at it. It goes zero to sixty in under six seconds, regardless of who is testing it. Trap speeds in the quarter are generally right around 100 mph. That is not phenonmenal these days, but not too bad considering the current competition (Z4, Boxster, 350Z Roadster) Yes, you do have to rev the crap out of it and abuse the clutch to get a good launch. I refuse to do that with my car. It is not meant to be a stop-light or drag racer. I have owned torquey cars in the past: third-gens with built 350's and 383's, an LT1, and two LS1's and I do not feel that my S2000 is underpowered. Many S2000 owners buy new rear gears, which helps out on the low end. The stock ratio is 4.10, and 4.57 or 4.70 are popular. Centrifugal blowers are also popular, and Vortech makes a nice one that is perfectly mated to the powerband. In case people weren't already aware of this, the redline is 9k RPM on the 2.0 liter cars. Not to be a jerk or anything, but an S2000, even with a poor launch, would eat a 3.8 Mustang alive in the straights. Forget about the twisties, I won't even go there. :bow:

Do you enjoy getting slapped around?

The aluminum block LS1 uses cast iron liners, so if it's a cast iron block or an aluminum block with cast iron sleeves, there's still the aluminum pistons in each.

Like I said, I don't think "piston slap" is still with us and I also don't think it was limited to the aluminum block V8s.


The LS* based engines are leaders in technology and are the envy of other manufacturers.

After having owned a vehicle with Nissan's VK-series V8, I can honestly say that GM's pushrod V8 can't compete in terms of refinement or even torque delivery. However, it would be interesting to compare the dimensions of the aluminum block of a Nissan VK56 V8 with any Chevrolet LS-engine.

When the '97 C5 Corvette premiered, the LS1 was stunning...in 2001 the LS6 was amazing....for 2005 the LS2 didn't seem like much of an advance....and now the 7.0 liter LS7 looks like it should have only become a crate engine.


The Dodge boys even copied most of the design in their (semi) HEMI (they had one of the LS1's in their design area where the (semi) HEMI was designed).

Actually, Chrysler's cast iron HEMI borrows quite a bit of combustion chamber design from Mercedes 3-valve/2-spark per cylinder engines. The very long pushrods in the Hemi allow the same sort of valve placements the overhead cam engine Mercedes engines.


Your just digging yourself in deeper....in an area where you have no business going.....unless you enjoy the punishment.

Are you some sort of automotive journalist?:lol:

When the '97 C5 Corvette premiered, the LS1 was stunning...in 2001 the LS6 was amazing....for 2005 the LS2 didn't seem like much of an advance....and now the 7.0 liter LS7 looks like it should have only become a crate engine.

Dude, I think you need to go outside and get some fresh air. Seriously.

I think red is just a tad bent out of shape because he knows that EVERY Pontiac Solstice will sell and there won't be one for him. ;)

The S2000 is relatively fast no matter how you look at it. It goes zero to sixty in under six seconds, regardless of who is testing it. Trap speeds in the quarter are generally right around 100 mph. That is not phenonmenal these days, but not too bad considering the current competition (Z4, Boxster, 350Z Roadster) Yes, you do have to rev the crap out of it and abuse the clutch to get a good launch. I refuse to do that with my car. It is not meant to be a stop-light or drag racer. I have owned torquey cars in the past: third-gens with built 350's and 383's, an LT1, and two LS1's and I do not feel that my S2000 is underpowered. Many S2000 owners buy new rear gears, which helps out on the low end. The stock ratio is 4.10, and 4.57 or 4.70 are popular. Centrifugal blowers are also popular, and Vortech makes a nice one that is perfectly mated to the powerband. In case people weren't already aware of this, the redline is 9k RPM on the 2.0 liter cars. Not to be a jerk or anything, but an S2000, even with a poor launch, would eat a 3.8 Mustang alive in the straights. Forget about the twisties, I won't even go there. :bow:
Yeah, I left some details out about my experience :o

Like I said, the 3.8 was pretty spiffy for me. I was leaving Fresno State going down Shaw, a major street and one with many traffic cops. So I'm stupid and decide to not let this silver RSX get in front of me (thought he was going to change lanes. He had 3 passengers, I had none. He thought I wanted to race (or wanted to race me). From the light, I would snuff him to the point where around 45 I'd just let off the gas and he'd catch up. I'd see him gun it from a roll and we would be even for quite a distance. We did this a few times and the last time he actually gained on me while our mph's were in the 50s (maybe 60's). We both braked for a red light and I was glad he turned right :(

The s2000 was some asian chick on the bay bridge who gunned it the same time I did but would probably have killed me if:
1. she had went to higher rpm's
2. I had tried to race her again :p

I learned my lesson...stick with older, uglier imports ;)

I expect big things from the charged Solstice and I like the styling of this car also. Who knows right now but a year or two later I'll be in the market and well see. I lost my "domestic only" faith.

I think red is just a tad bent out of shape because he knows that EVERY Pontiac Solstice will sell and there won't be one for him. ;)

Why would I want a 4-banger roadster that my big SUV can outrun?

Why would I want a 4-banger roadster that my big SUV can outrun?
Some people like to be able to turn.

Why would I want a 4-banger roadster that my big SUV can outrun?

Uh, my money's on the Solstice.

**"We take a break from the 'Redzed Show' to check in on the original subject of our thread"**

I was just reading the Pontiac site on the Solstice.

50/50 distribution; 9gs of of roadholding stick; 177 horses & 166 lbs/ft of torque, $20,000 price tag. It's also coming out this summer instead of this fall. It sounds better everytime I hear about it. :)

Anyone know if the warranty remains with the dealer installed blower?


**"Now we return to the latest episode of the 'Redzed Show' (even though the plot seems like a rerun you've seen a million times before, it really is a new episode..... we promise. :lol:"**

(if it goes on for a few more pages, we'll change it to "Redzed, the Movie" ;) )

(if it goes on for a few more pages, we'll change it to "Redzed, the Movie" ;) )

We could call it , errrr.......Nissamo :D

If I remember right , GM did include the blower under warranty if dealer installed at the time of purchase on the Cavaliers of the last couple years .