I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
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I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
And have come up with these points:
-We know that part of the inspiration for Zeta was Sigma.
-We know that Holden and GMNA have been working very closely on all of this and,by definition, they will have profoundly influenced each others thinking by now.
-We know that a long hard look has been taken at how both Holden and GMNA build cars:the good,the bad,and the ugly.
To me,this is good news because.
-The talent of Holden has to have lit a fire under GMNA who were shown-up by tiny little Holden.
-If they have come to a parting-of-the-ways, it is because the original premise was flawed in some critical way. Look at this as a mistake not made.
-the process of reaching this conclusion could only improve the planning,process, and product of both.
- the Camaro and the GTO would no longer have to be sister cars which would have limited the potential of both.
-A ton of the groundwork engineering is already done-for both. Leaving us with two very viable RWD platforms instead of one compromise platform. Maybe musclecars and pony cars can be the two distinct products they should be now.
-So, with Monaro/GTO production headed to GMNA, and an FTA in place between the US and Oz, maybe they will ship us some of their other toys while we ship them a Musclecar and a Pony car.
-even assuming that the assembly processes are so different as to be incompatible, the sharing of components and design need not be. So, each product could be built using many common components according to market conditions in either location. This could be set up in a way that would allow for the flexibility to shift production from one location to another in response to market conditions and demand. This idea could be adjusted as the markets shift and as updates are made to the platforms,allowing GM to stay on top of the game and even to bring new models to both markets much faster.
So yeah, I am doing more than simply having faith-I'm celebrating the possibilities
-We know that part of the inspiration for Zeta was Sigma.
-We know that Holden and GMNA have been working very closely on all of this and,by definition, they will have profoundly influenced each others thinking by now.
-We know that a long hard look has been taken at how both Holden and GMNA build cars:the good,the bad,and the ugly.
To me,this is good news because.
-The talent of Holden has to have lit a fire under GMNA who were shown-up by tiny little Holden.
-If they have come to a parting-of-the-ways, it is because the original premise was flawed in some critical way. Look at this as a mistake not made.
-the process of reaching this conclusion could only improve the planning,process, and product of both.
- the Camaro and the GTO would no longer have to be sister cars which would have limited the potential of both.
-A ton of the groundwork engineering is already done-for both. Leaving us with two very viable RWD platforms instead of one compromise platform. Maybe musclecars and pony cars can be the two distinct products they should be now.
-So, with Monaro/GTO production headed to GMNA, and an FTA in place between the US and Oz, maybe they will ship us some of their other toys while we ship them a Musclecar and a Pony car.
-even assuming that the assembly processes are so different as to be incompatible, the sharing of components and design need not be. So, each product could be built using many common components according to market conditions in either location. This could be set up in a way that would allow for the flexibility to shift production from one location to another in response to market conditions and demand. This idea could be adjusted as the markets shift and as updates are made to the platforms,allowing GM to stay on top of the game and even to bring new models to both markets much faster.
So yeah, I am doing more than simply having faith-I'm celebrating the possibilities
Last edited by CaminoLS6; Feb 9, 2005 at 03:53 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by CaminoLS6
And have come up with these points:
-We know that part of the inspiration for Zeta was Sigma.
-We know that Holden and GMNA have been working very closely on all of this and,by definition, they will have profoundly influenced each others thinking by now.
-We know that a long hard look has been taken at how both Holden and GMNA build cars:the good,the bad,and the ugly.
To me,this is good news because.
-The talent of Holden has to have lit a fire under GMNA who were shown-up by tiny little Holden.
-If they have come to a parting-of-the-ways, it is because the original premise was flawed in some critical way. Look at this as a mistake not made.
-the process of reaching this conclusion could only improve the planning,process, and product of both.
- the Camaro and the GTO would no longer have to be sister cars which would have limited the potential of both.
-A ton of the groundwork engineering is already done-for both. Leaving us with two very viable RWD platforms instead of one compromise platform. Maybe musclecars and pony cars can be the two distinct products they should be now.
-So, with Monaro/GTO production headed to GMNA, and an FTA in place between the US and Oz, maybe they will ship us some of their other toys while we ship them a Musclecar and a Pony car.
-even assuming that the assembly processes are so different as to be incompatible, the sharing of components and design need not be. So, each product could be built using many common components according to market conditions in either location. This could be set up in a way that would allow for the flexibility to shift production from one location to another in response to market conditions and demand. This idea could be adjusted as the markets shift and as updates are made to the platforms,allowing GM to stay on top of the game and even to bring new models to both markets much faster.
So yeah, I am doing more than simply having faith-I'm celebrating the possibilities
-We know that part of the inspiration for Zeta was Sigma.
-We know that Holden and GMNA have been working very closely on all of this and,by definition, they will have profoundly influenced each others thinking by now.
-We know that a long hard look has been taken at how both Holden and GMNA build cars:the good,the bad,and the ugly.
To me,this is good news because.
-The talent of Holden has to have lit a fire under GMNA who were shown-up by tiny little Holden.
-If they have come to a parting-of-the-ways, it is because the original premise was flawed in some critical way. Look at this as a mistake not made.
-the process of reaching this conclusion could only improve the planning,process, and product of both.
- the Camaro and the GTO would no longer have to be sister cars which would have limited the potential of both.
-A ton of the groundwork engineering is already done-for both. Leaving us with two very viable RWD platforms instead of one compromise platform. Maybe musclecars and pony cars can be the two distinct products they should be now.
-So, with Monaro/GTO production headed to GMNA, and an FTA in place between the US and Oz, maybe they will ship us some of their other toys while we ship them a Musclecar and a Pony car.
-even assuming that the assembly processes are so different as to be incompatible, the sharing of components and design need not be. So, each product could be built using many common components according to market conditions in either location. This could be set up in a way that would allow for the flexibility to shift production from one location to another in response to market conditions and demand. This idea could be adjusted as the markets shift and as updates are made to the platforms,allowing GM to stay on top of the game and even to bring new models to both markets much faster.
So yeah, I am doing more than simply having faith-I'm celebrating the possibilities
Smart guy, you are.
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From: Chicagoland IL
Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by CaminoLS6
-So, with Monaro/GTO production headed to GMNA, and an FTA in place between the US and Oz, maybe they will ship us some of their other toys while we ship them a Musclecar and a Pony car.
It appears that some nimrods at GM may have been guiding the program in a very bad direction for a ponycar. They figured an intermediate coupe should be what this ponycar should evolve into....and we would all happily buy it....since of course, we're all too stupid to know the difference. We're not out of the woods yet, but some at GM have seen the value of covering the segment with both an intermediate coupe and a ponycar. Let's hope it all works out.
Speaking of intermediate coupes....
What if the GTO had a Pontiac sister car? GTO would be the performance version of course and the sister car could have more emphasis on luxury. It could be named the French word for Grand Prize.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Thanks for the kind words. My thinking extends a bit farther, but I'd like to think about it some more before I post anything.
You have a pretty good idea of what tack I take on all of this,Chaz
You have a pretty good idea of what tack I take on all of this,Chaz
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Another small aspect of what I'm thinking:
-with all of this engineering cooperation and an FTA in place, exports in either direction
can be decided on in a realtive snap. Tactical advantage: GM
-with all of this engineering cooperation and an FTA in place, exports in either direction
can be decided on in a realtive snap. Tactical advantage: GM
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by Z284ever
What if the GTO had a Pontiac sister car? GTO would be the performance version of course and the sister car could have more emphasis on luxury. It could be named the French word for Grand Prize.
I kind of thought this could happen if Grand Prix went to RWD...
Not sure how I feel about it though. It kindof makes me feel like the next GTO would simply be a Grand Prix GTP with a letter changed.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
I kind of thought this could happen if Grand Prix went to RWD...
Not sure how I feel about it though. It kindof makes me feel like the next GTO would simply be a Grand Prix GTP with a letter changed.
Not sure how I feel about it though. It kindof makes me feel like the next GTO would simply be a Grand Prix GTP with a letter changed.
The Holden Commodore sedan isn't expected to change it's length or width much if at all, and it's much shorter than the Grand Prix (it's same length & width as the current GTO). Yet the Holden Statesman-Caprice (what the next Buick Roadmaster is rumored to be) is longer, and may be imported from Australia
This is my wild guess based on Buick's RWD sedan coming out in 2007 and the sudden proliferation of Zetas in 2008-9, indicating a single model car in CY 2006 & new assembly line producing various models opening up for CY 2007.
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From: Oakland, California
Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
After seeing Motorweek shred the tires off a 2005 GTO at the track because of its poor handling characteristics; I am more than ever convinced that I don't want the next Camaro to be even remotely like the present GTO/Monaro. If Sigma or Kappa-Plus can do the job (but take a little longer), so be it.
I want a RWD/V8 ponycar.
I want a Camaro.
While I do have faith, I'm beginning to weigh all my options... mainly because my 1995 Z28 is pushing 10 years old, and I know it won't last forver.
I want a RWD/V8 ponycar.
I want a Camaro.
While I do have faith, I'm beginning to weigh all my options... mainly because my 1995 Z28 is pushing 10 years old, and I know it won't last forver.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by jg95z28
While I do have faith, I'm beginning to weigh all my options... mainly because my 1995 Z28 is pushing 10 years old, and I know it won't last forver.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by guionM
I'm kinda curious about that myself. If Grand Prix & GTO do share the same size & chassis, that means the next Grand Prix would be shorter!
It turns out that 5MPH bumpers aren't neccessary in the USA, Europe or Japan. Only CANADA requires them.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by jg95z28
After seeing Motorweek shred the tires off a 2005 GTO at the track because of its poor handling characteristics...
Put those tires (BFGoodrich KDWS) on any car and hot lap it at a race track and the same thing will happen. IMO ,they are a cheap tire and are a compromise to allow people to drive the car in all seasons.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by 95 Z/28 LT1
IMO ,they are a cheap tire and are a compromise to allow people to drive the car in all seasons.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by 95 Z/28 LT1
I'm pretty sure that the tire wear issue they had was due to the type of tire on the car, not because of its "poor handling characteristics".
Originally Posted by poSSum
There's no shortage of used LS1 F-bodies being next to given away to tide you over.
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Re: I've been thinking about Zeta vs. Sigma
Originally Posted by jg95z28
Actually they commented on the poor handling characteristics, then showed the tires as a result of it. While possiblyy not related, the video of the GTO shaking all over the place made me think twice.
I don't recall them ever stating that the car had poor handling characteristics.
Maybe you're getting this road test confused with another car?Here's an excerpt from the shows website, and from what I recall this is what they said almost word for word (if not exactly) on TV.
Cornering is by way of a fully independent suspension, with rear semi-trailing arms, power rack and pinion steering, and electronic driving aids ABS and traction control. Pushed to the limits around Roebling's eight high-speed turns, the LS2 V-8's great power is put to good use. As in our earlier test, we found the GTO to be well balanced and very predictable, with only modest amounts of push. The steering is a little on the slow side, but exhibits good weight and decent feel. The larger brakes also go a long way in quieting some earlier concerns.
But the GTO is first and foremost a straight-line muscle car, and while it tackles this 2-mile road course gamely, it's just a bit out of its element. Body roll is moderate, and initial understeer can be quickly countered by liberal use of the throttle. However, after a few laps, the GTO's soft springs and 3765-pound curb weight start to take their toll. Our tester's all-season touring tires were not able to keep up the pace. Grip was adequate, but heat and track conditions caused early wear, sending the GTO into the pits for an early retirement from track work.
But the GTO is first and foremost a straight-line muscle car, and while it tackles this 2-mile road course gamely, it's just a bit out of its element. Body roll is moderate, and initial understeer can be quickly countered by liberal use of the throttle. However, after a few laps, the GTO's soft springs and 3765-pound curb weight start to take their toll. Our tester's all-season touring tires were not able to keep up the pace. Grip was adequate, but heat and track conditions caused early wear, sending the GTO into the pits for an early retirement from track work.