'05 GTO 13.3@107 vs '05 GT 13.8@103 C&D matchup

Lookin good. :thumb:

Good driver should drop that GTO into the 12s

Well thats better!

In the previosu issue they stated the 05 GT was faster in the 04 GTO (it was in there tests) but they shouldn't compare an 05 to an 04--when they know full well the 05 GTO will ahve alot more power then the GT

Even the '04 had more power...but the GT is geared better down low.

I'm surprised even C&D got that low of a time out of the new GTO...I didn't think it would be THAT much slower than the LS2 'Vette. Bah...maybe some more rags will get a lot better numbers...

The '05 GT isn't faster than the '04 GTO anyway. But you can get magazines to skew any test to who paid up more money.

That's a higher trap than other mags have gotten for the 05 GT...hmmm...

Glad to hear it. There were so many trolls that claimed the Mustang GT was going to be faster than the '05 GTO even though it is only ~200lbs. lighter and has 100HP less :rolleyes:

I want to see an LS2 GTO vs. '04 Cobra shoot out.

Those numbers sound about right. The 05 GTO certainly should be significantly quicker with 80-90 more RWHP and only an extra 150-200 lbs to carry around.

Those numbers sound about right. The 05 GTO certainly should be significantly quicker with 80-90 more RWHP and only an extra 150-200 lbs to carry around.

I want to see an LS2 GTO vs. '04 Cobra shoot out.
My 04 Cobra is stock - lets get it on! :D

Glad to hear it. There were so many trolls that claimed the Mustang GT was going to be faster than the '05 GTO even though it is only ~200lbs. lighter and has 100HP less :rolleyes:

I want to see an LS2 GTO vs. '04 Cobra shoot out.Bring it. :D
S.

My 04 Cobra is stock - lets get it on! :D

If only I had a '05 GTO. :D I think it would be a great matchup. Both cars are almost the same weight and both dyno ~420-430HP at the engine.

GTO A4 vs. GTO M6 vs. Cobra Lets throw in a CTSv for good measure :p

I only wish the GTO didn't weigh 3774 lbs. With the HP that LS2 puts out, it would be a rocket ship in a lighter car. (which is evident in the new 'vette).

Those numbers sounds reasonable for both cars though, although that is the fastest trap that I've seen for the new GT. It is possible I suppose.

BTW, I think the '05 GTO would need to drop a little weight before it would run neck and neck with the '03-'04 Cobra's. They are very close though, I agree.

Dan

For a grudge match of a '04 Cobra vs '05 GTO, I think the Cobra would be the clear winner. Based solely on equal driver's in each car. I think a GTO might dip into the 12.7 range as a best case. Pontiac is claiming 13.0, so I'll give it .3 with a good driver. Cobra's should be able to handle that with a good driver.

Would be a good match up though :D

FWIW, I weighed my GTO at MIR last month. 3760 with 1/2 tank of gas. I would have thought the '05 would be a little lighter since the LS2 is less weight but maybe the bigger brakes and driveline added back the weight?

If only I had a '05 GTO. :D I think it would be a great matchup. Both cars are almost the same weight and both dyno ~420-430HP at the engine.

05 GTO's dyno in the 365-375 RWHP range? I didn't know that.

05 GTO's dyno at around 350RWHP. There was a post on ls1tech with a dyno chart awhile back.

13.3 for the 05 sounds about right with an average driver. A few owners of 04 GTO's including me have gotten the 04 GTO to run low 13 1/4 miles times. With a good driver the 05 will hit hi 12's easily. I guarentee it. ;)

05 GTO's dyno at around 350RWHP. There was a post on ls1tech with a dyno chart awhile back.

Cool. Was that a pre-production car?

Makes sense that it would be around 350 RWHP (which would put it very close to its 400 HP rating, perhaps a bit above it), as the 04s seem to average close to 300 RWHP.

Agree with your 1/4 mile potential assessment.

The '05 GTO A4 dynos at 350-355 rwhp and 345-350 torque. So I imagine the M6 would be in the 370 rwhp and 360 torque range.

But don't quote me on that, I haven't seen a dyno on the M6 yet.

One site had a LS2 GTO dyno 428HP assuming 18% drivetrain loss on the auto

One site had a LS2 GTO dyno 428HP assuming 18% drivetrain loss on the auto

At the rear wheels? Stock? I find that hard to believe.

One site had a LS2 GTO dyno 428HP assuming 18% drivetrain loss on the auto


That's about what i figured - 430 hp and 425 torque at the flywheel.

http://www.ls1tech.com/GTO/dynoLS2gtoStock.gif

05 GTO Dyno - Factory Stock

Yea, Ive seen that. It was an A4.

At the rear wheels? Stock? I find that hard to believe.

http://www.ls1tech.com/GTO/dynoLS2gtoStock.gif

05 GTO Dyno - Factory Stock

yup thats the one. 351RWHP -18% loss for the auto = 428HP at the flywheel

even with 15% loss thats 413HP at the engine

The LS2 is not making 428 hp at the flywheel. If it makes those kinds of rwhp numbers, then maybe the autos have gotten better in terms of power transfer efficiency. Maybe 14% is a better number for the 4L65E. Of course, power to the wheels is what moves you, but do not read these dynos and just assume that the LS2 is underrated by 30 hp. That happens too often in here, imo. Some around here have seen actual engine dyno results, and 400 hp is a pretty good number. :)

And that is still badass. Let us all remember a short decade ago when the 275 hp, 14.0 @ 101 mph LT1 Z28 was a sickening amount of bang for the buck. Now the GTO, for a little more cash, is making 400 hp. The vaunted, $70 grand + ZR1 made 375 initially, and 405 in final form. It is unbelievable how many cars make well over 300 hp now...

How do you know the LS2 isnt making that power? I think the times of ET's telling the story of power isnt true now with torque limiting programing. Its on the GTO, its on the C6, adn its on the Mustang. 428hp IS possible on a broken in LS2, but im sure not all will dyno like that.

How do you know the LS2 isnt making that power? I think the times of ET's telling the story of power isnt true now with torque limiting programing. Its on the GTO, its on the C6, adn its on the Mustang. 428hp IS possible on a broken in LS2, but im sure not all will dyno like that.Stock, in the car, the engine has to deal with all the emissions rules, torque management (which is mainly during shifts and lower gears, I believe), and is fueled and sparked accordingly. Is a 6.0L small block V8 with LS2 heads CAPABLE of that kind of power? I'm sure it is. But the fact remains that emissions standards are there, and spark has to be released as a factory calibration in such a way that those standards can be met.

What the aftermarket tuners will get is a different story. But I'm saying that stock, out of the box, the engines are rated pretty spot on now. And if we are getting better at putting that power to the ground (as BMW always seems to be; I swear their cars almost always perform better than their power/torque ratings and curb weight suggest that they should), then that is great. I'm just saying that the LS2 should make around 400 hp as advertised, give or take, and that is a good thing. :thumb:

Anything is possible....400....410...420....428. That dyno above is very good - where did it come from? Link to the thread? (I can't seem to find it). Also, wouldn't it have to be a pre-production car?

Also, what are LS2 Vette's dynoing? Links to any of those, please. (my search skills suck today - I have tried)

Thanks.

From what is posted about the LS2, its basically an LS6 with some more cubes. Comes with "243" LS6 heads and the cam is an '01 spec LS6 cam. Those made a rated 385HP back in '01 on 5.7L. Add a few cubes and 400HP. I seriously doubt it'll be 420+HP but has a lot of room to grow.

I speculate that the '02-04 LS6 cam will be in next year to add another 10-15 rated HP. Then more minor tweaks to give it a little more each year.

Yea, Ive seen that. It was an A4.
I found the thread (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198796&page=1&pp=20), but couldn't find where it said if the car was an A4 or M6. If you have the reference, please post. It is obviously a pre-production car, with the thread dating back to July.

I also found some LS2 Vette numbers...seems they are averaging between 345 and 355 RWHP stock (of course, some are a bit higher, some a bit lower). I see no reason the GTO wouldn't put down about the same.

Some Vette numbers... (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245185)

Keep in mind that no tool for tuning is available yet...I see some NASTY numbers within a year or so.

I sure hope a GTO with 400hp is faster than a 300hp stang.What you forgot to mention was that the article ruled the GT a better car.Nuff said.

Ummm, no. What you forgot to mention was that the mustang beat the GTO by one point, and the mustang scored seven points over the GTO simply for the "Gotta Have It" factor. :rolleyes:



I sure hope a GTO with 400hp is faster than a 300hp stang.What you forgot to mention was that the article ruled the GT a better car.Nuff said.

actually,didn't every tester prefer the GT???Go here to read a less biased review of the test.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=522244

Let them say what they will, I have driven an '05 Stang and an '04 GTO, and if the interior is anything near as nice in the '05 GTO's as they were in '04, then I will take the GTO over the stang without a second thought.

Let them say what they will, I have driven an '05 Stang and an '04 GTO, and if the interior is anything near as nice in the '05 GTO's as they were in '04, then I will take the GTO over the stang without a second thought.



I sure you would,being a GM guy and all.I don't play the ford vs. chevy game,I get the car that appeals to me most, as long as it is an american car.I also dont let the interior be a final judging factor unless its an awful one,which the stang isn't.The '05 GTO is a great car,but like C&D said,the mustang appeals to more people.

I sure you would,being a GM guy and all.I don't play the ford vs. chevy game,I get the car that appeals to me most, as long as it is an american car.I also dont let the interior be a final judging factor unless its an awful one,which the stang isn't.The '05 GTO is a great car,but like C&D said,the mustang appeals to more people.
I agree with everything you said, I don't really play the Ford vrs Chevy game anymore, since Chevy doesn't have anything worth a damn anymore (besides Corvette which I can't afford) to compete directly with the mustang. The '05 GTO is a nice step up from the '04, but its still lacking in the appearance department. I would have really liked to see the Woodward GTO go into production, even as a special edition, I think that would have helped it out tremendously.

As far as the new Mustang goes, I like them. They are awesome little cars with a lot of potential. Running mid 12's with a few bolts on and sticky tires is pretty much a first for the Ford Mustang GT. But as with the vast majority of all Mustangs, I still feel like something is missing, and I don't what it is, I know I don't feel that way about my Camaro, or my dad's '01 WS6, but I know whatever it is, it's not there in the new Mustang, at least not to me anyways.

I'll be in the market for a new car around '07-'08, and worrying about what kind of car I buy at that time right now is like worrying if its going to rain on my birthday in 4 years.. There's no point because I can't change anything anyways. I'm pretty much leaving it up to GM, Ford, and DCX to come up with something that has the same attitude that my Camaro has. RIGHT NOW, I have to give that overall edge to Ford, because of the '03-04 Cobra's. But I know verywell that that could, and most likely will change before that time.

If the woodward GTO was made and came in under 3600lbs,I'd be driving one for sure(orange with little "judge" badges on the front fenders-LOL).When I was a young teen,my brothers friend had a '69 judge and I would stand in the street and drool over it whenever he came over. :)

The simple fact is that the Mustang beat the GTO on the- "GOT TO HAVE IT' factor...

what a bunch of baloney...

I'm suprised nobody mentioned that the GTO had less than 1000 miles on it. If you look at the picture of the new GTO gauges, it shows 9XX miles on it, hardly broken in for a LS1/2 motor. If C&D is getting 13.3 with a green 2005 GTO, I can't wait to see how other publications will do with one with a few miles on it!

I'm suprised nobody mentioned that the GTO had less than 1000 miles on it. If you look at the picture of the new GTO gauges, it shows 9XX miles on it, hardly broken in for a LS1/2 motor. If C&D is getting 13.3 with a green 2005 GTO, I can't wait to see how other publications will do with one with a few miles on it!

About the same, apart from the GMHTP/MM&FF family of publications, everyone else pretty much sucks at the strip.

Methinks I could get a 12 out of it in good air and favorable seas (quickie/freebie mods inclusive), just like my SS.

True that. A guy down in GA went 13.3 in his stock 05 Mustang over the weekend. 1.8x 60 ft on the stock radials - obviously they worked on the suspension for 05...either that or a significant amount of the extra weight is over the rear end. :) Anyway, the point is that the 05 GTO - with its more favorable power-to-weight - ought to be able to get well into the 12s under good conditions and with a good driver.

BTW...the MPH was still only 101.6. Wierd.