Man , is chevy gonna sell ALOT of cobalts . I drove one today .

I am kinda waiting on SS to replace my 97 bonnie SSE , the salesman Im dealing with called and said they got few base model cars in if I wanna come check them out . So I did . First off , all they had were 4 low option 4-doors . I did drive one though , to get a feel for the supposed new found quality . Well , GM wasnt bs'ing one bit . This car wreaks of quality everywhere . Everything , from the way the switchgear feels , to the way the door shuts is amazing . Materials inside are all upscale looking and feeling , and VERY volkswagon like . Car drove like a vault , for what it was it handled awesome and the steering was really precise . I really liked the steering feel . Seeing as how this was a base car with the only options being an auto tranny and cruise , I can only imaging how good the SS's are gonna feel . The 4-door didnt look quirky in person like it did in pics , even the base 4-door was really nice looking car . Its so far ahead of the cavalier interms of EVERYTHING , its not really even comparable . I did buy a new cavi back in 2000 , so I have that to compare too . I cant believe interior , did GM really produce this :eek: The car I drove $14325 , minus $850 if you get a manual .

IMO chevy is gonna sell these as fast as they can build them .

That's good to hear. :cool: I hope our local dealer gets one in soon so I can have a look.

Exactly what I thought when I looked at a Cobalt. The interior doesnt look like a GM interior. Not at all. The whole lay out just was so nice and pleasing to the eye...very impressed.
I also cant wait for the SS's. This only gives me hope to new interiors in cars like the HHR, Impala, and future Camaro.

SEE!!

Don't doubt me. :lol:

Drove one and got some pics (http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=648) :)

SEE!!

Don't doubt me. :lol:
yes, all bow to the guion :bow:

Since Cobalt is built locally (Lordstown, OH), and it is basically what keeps our burnt out area afloat... this is very good to hear.

Every time an GM rep mentions Cobalt... the word PREMIUM is used.

From what I have seen myself, I tend to agree with your assessment!! :thumb:

good news to hear
might try to talk my sister into one of those soon (her cavalier is hobbling along but we'll have to see how long it lasts- 155k and counting :) )

on a side note, how's the weather up there darth?
just trying to see if we'll be seeing really cold temps and snow soon

on a side note, how's the weather up there darth?
just trying to see if we'll be seeing really cold temps and snow soon

Amazingly no snow... but I think it's coming real soon. :(

had our first hard frost here in columbia last night. walked outside this morning like "what the hell??"
anyways, a friend of mine is looking into getting a cobalt, checking out an LS coupe on saturday. This will be his 6th car in less than 3 years :eek: . and hes not even 18 yet!

I hope that GM gets a lot of SS orders and SS sales go way beyond expected production. "Hey GM, people want a fast Chevy Coupe with a nice interior!!" Though that could rob from the camaro "if this sells so well, why build that" but it'd also mean sales taken from the SRT4 and other coupes - more money for GM means more money for GM. I know if they do well in sales they'll make the right decision.

I cant wait to drive one. Though I'm not in the market... an SS in black sounds like a nice daily driver to me in a few years... I'd love to order from the GM Performance parts book, do some mods and get a 270hp cobalt SS. That thing would probably be fun...

I was looking at some pictures the other day thinking that the colbalt might make a good daily driver in a few years. This is really good to hear that the quality has improved. :)

I'd love to order from the GM Performance parts book, do some mods and get a 270hp cobalt SS. That thing would probably be fun...

How cool would it be if you could get packages like the SRT-4 offers? Smaller pulley, ported ecotec head, larger cams and from the dealership, like 250 hp?

How cool would it be if you could get packages like the SRT-4 offers? Smaller pulley, ported ecotec head, larger cams and from the dealership, like 250 hp?

While that would be cool... I wouldn't hold my breath. :(

I wouldnt be surprised if GM did that in response to MOPAR.

I wouldnt be surprised if GM did that in response to MOPAR.

If can get a Cobalt with dealer installed 250+ HP and its covered under warranty... I may just say screw waiting for a new Camaro. :irk:

I sat in an LT sedan about 2 weeks ago...I was completely dumbstruck that THIS is a Cavalier replacement. Leather, heated seats, Pioneer stereo, 17" alloys, moonroof, power everything for $18,700!!!!!! Unbelievable...

But no 5 SPEED?????????????? This is about the only 4 door I actually want (no LT coupes), but no stick = no sale. They already have the stick in the base and LS sedans and coupes...with the same engine, whats the problem here????

I am waiting until April or so for the base SS coupe with the 170hp 2.4 to come out. I really don't want to spend $23k on a supercharged one, but 18-19k on a sporty little 5 speed SS would be quite nice. My girlfriend really wants my GP, so by next April-May I will be out there looking for something...

A year ago I remember posting that there was not ONE new GM model I could see myself in. Now, Chevy has 3 (Equinox, Colorado and Cobalt), and Pontiac has one (G6) with 2 coming (Solstice and Torrent). Granted, I am all over the map in terms of the variances between each model, but each have distinct advantages to them, and its going to be hard to pick. Its very nice to see myself wanting GM products again...and within 7-8 months I will be a new GM buyer again.

The only problem is, I don't really lust after any of them. Great drivers (although I guess Solstice is more than a driver), but lets turn up the heat a little, guys...

I sat in an LT sedan about 2 weeks ago...I was completely dumbstruck that THIS is a Cavalier replacement. Leather, heated seats, Pioneer stereo, 17" alloys, moonroof, power everything for $18,700!!!!!! Unbelievable...


We're still talking alot of money for an entry level car, assuming that a $3,000 rebate isn't part of the deal. For this amount of cash, you can get a brand spankin' new midsized domestic or even a new Grand Marquis. If you want to shop used, a 2004 Explorer can be had for a couple grand less. For an entry level buyer, something new and bigger - or a used SUV/truck - is the way to go....

....At least until the rebates get high enough.

We're still talking alot of money for an entry level car, assuming that a $3,000 rebate isn't part of the deal. For this amount of cash, you can get a brand spankin' new midsized domestic or even a new Grand Marquis. If you want to shop used, a 2004 Explorer can be had for a couple grand less. For an entry level buyer, something new and bigger - or a used SUV/truck - is the way to go....

....At least until the rebates get high enough.


Do you ever say anything that is not an attempt to put down the vehicle being discussed?

For this amount of cash, you can get a brand spankin' new midsized domestic or even a new Grand Marquis.

Maybe so, but first of all, I seriously doubt anyone shopping for a Cobalt would have ANY interest in a Grand Marquis! :lol: Secondly, ya, you might be able to get a midsize for a similar price, but it's not going to have the equipment he listed at the same price level.

If you want to shop used, a 2004 Explorer can be had for a couple grand less.

Again, what makes you think a Cobalt buyer would want an SUV?! It's not even the same kind of vehicle! Plus, maybe they want a NEW car... and finally, the 2 cars you listed (Grand Marquis and Explorer) are on dinosaur platforms!!!! Might as well throw the Chevy Astro into the mix as well!! :think:

For an entry level buyer, something new and bigger - or a used SUV/truck - is the way to go....

I'm guessing about 250,000+ people per year for a long time disagree with you...

We're still talking alot of money for an entry level car, assuming that a $3,000 rebate isn't part of the deal. For this amount of cash, you can get a brand spankin' new midsized domestic or even a new Grand Marquis. If you want to shop used, a 2004 Explorer can be had for a couple grand less. For an entry level buyer, something new and bigger - or a used SUV/truck - is the way to go....

....At least until the rebates get high enough.

Called you out in this already, the Grand Marq starts at 25k msrp and has a $3500 rebate right now. Edmunds TMV on a base model car is about 22k. You're talking out your ass.

Also, I don't know any Cobalt buyers who would go out and buy a Grand Marquis instead. And this is coming from a fan of the Panther platform.

Maybe redzed hasn't priced out a loaded Civic, Corolla, or Jetta lately...

The Cobalt is NOT supposed to hit the exact same price points (real world, not stickers) as the Cavalier. That is the reason for the Aveo's existence. Offer something in the 9-13 range (where the Cavalier has resided for the last few years after rebates are factored in), and let the much nicer and more "premium" (for a compact) fight higher up in the price range, where it rightfully belongs against the aforementioned competitors.

Called you out in this already, the Grand Marq starts at 25k msrp and has a $3500 rebate right now. Edmunds TMV on a base model car is about 22k. You're talking out your ass.

Trust me on this one, you can get a new 2004 Grand Marquis for about $18K. I've even seen the seen the $18K figure in regional Lincoln-Mercury ads. There probably was some "loyalty cash" in the advertised figure.

Also, I don't know any Cobalt buyers who would go out and buy a Grand Marquis instead. And this is coming from a fan of the Panther platform.

I just used the Grand Marquis as an example of how much new car you can get for $18K. The fact remains that there are plenty of "entry level" cars out there that are rotten value for the money. I mean seriously, is a Civic EX worth more than an Accord DX?

Cobalt SS and the Solstice are the only cars from GM I'd consider buying with my own money.

Too bad, the SS isn't out yet, and the Solstice is STILL almost a year away.

By the way, redzed..... comparing Cobalt with a Grand Marquis and a SUV or Truck???

You're starting to loose it there my friend. :no:

Maybe redzed hasn't priced out a loaded Civic, Corolla, or Jetta lately...

Maybe 96_Camaro_B4C hasn't priced out comparably equipped Accords, Camrys and Passats lately...

You really have to wonder why anyone would buy a Jetta 1.8T when the Passat GL is so close on price.


The Cobalt is NOT supposed to hit the exact same price points (real world, not stickers) as the Cavalier. That is the reason for the Aveo's existence. Offer something in the 9-13 range (where the Cavalier has resided for the last few years after rebates are factored in), and let the much nicer and more "premium" (for a compact) fight higher up in the price range, where it rightfully belongs against the aforementioned competitors.

After all those years $9-10K Cavaliers, the Aveo seems overpriced and undersized (relatively speaking). Considering how hard VW has to push Jettas these days - not to mention how much they're losing per unit - you have to wonder about the future of "premium" compacts.

:metal: Great review :D

BTW, how do you get on that list of having dealers call YOU?? Wish I had that kinda stroke :(

:lol: @ redzed

Give it a rest man. Now we are comparing 2004 Grand M's with 2005 Cobalts. Cobalts at full MSRP and the GrM with massive discounts including loyalty discounts. Man, you have to remember, Apples to Apples or dont use it! This is more of an apple to onion kind of thing your trying to do here.

You have some other underlying contempt for GM that shows through pretty heavily.


My little brother just bought 2 loaded Jettas (one for the fiancee) and sticker was 26 each. Before that he was in a Sentra SE-R, for 19. The reason I mention this, I know what kind of buyer buys a car like this. He enjoys driving my Camaro every now and then, but wouldnt own one if it was given to him. He didnt want a Mustang, I couldnt get him to look at anythign that I concidered to be "cool." This is what he (and thousands upon thousands of others) are looking for. A decent car thats good on gas, comfortable, and isnt going to break anytime soon. He would have look at you funny had you mentioned a Grand Marque :lol:

I dont pretend to know every angle of the market by any means; but I know enough to know that I know very little. :) And when Cobalts outsell similarly priced Grand Marques and used explorers, maybe you'll be able to say the same.

I think his underlying contempt for the General resulted from the fact that they stopped making both his beloved B-Bodies and his beloved F-Bodies. For some reason he seems to deify these cars, which were not exactly noted for their class-leading refinement (well, the B-Body wasn't bad against the Crown Vic at the time, basically in a class of two). Yet anything newer and better that GM comes out with is just total junk compared to anything made by that paragon of automotive virtue, Nissan. :think:

Oh, and I also love the F and B-Bodies, red. I've owned a '94 Caprice LT1 and still own my '96 Camaro LT1, so I'm not one to diss on either of them. :) I miss the rear drivers too...

I think his underlying contempt for the General resulted from the fact that they stopped making both his beloved B-Bodies and his beloved F-Bodies. For some reason he seems to deify these cars, which were not exactly noted for their class-leading refinement (well, the B-Body wasn't bad against the Crown Vic at the time, basically in a class of two). Yet anything newer and better that GM comes out with is just total junk compared to anything made by that paragon of automotive virtue, Nissan. :think:

Oh, and I also love the F and B-Bodies, red. I've owned a '94 Caprice LT1 and still own my '96 Camaro LT1, so I'm not one to diss on either of them. :) I miss the rear drivers too...

I could not have said this better myself :) All of it...

Ignoring the fact we are now comparing Cobalts to Marquis' to used Explorers thanks to dear ol' Red, lets get back to the topic. I have seen more basic cloth-equipped Mazda 3's over 19k. Jetta? Discussed above. Civic EX? Ditto. Focus? About the same price, but to me does not appear to be even near the same league inside as a Cobalt. Neon? Right...Same for Lancer.

I dare say Cobalt is VERY competitively priced, and it really ticks me off Pontiac has no version!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone know when the Sunfire will FINALLY DIE?????????????

Between the continuation of the Chevy Blazer, the Sunfire, the Classic (which is dead for '05, no??) and the Grand Am GT coupe, its almost like GM loves creating its own greatest hits collection...

The problem is, none were hits in the first place...save for maybe the Grand Am.

The Cavalier is such a rediculous pile of crap when put next to any other competitor in the industry it's just sick.

Anyhow... this is good news for GM and I'm very interested to see it.

How was it in terms of power, road noise, etc? Also... what is the background on the motor? All new and solid?

Considering how hard VW has to push Jettas these days - not to mention how much they're losing per unit

Didn't know they're losing money. Any links to news sites/stories?

I actually agree with you that there can be found some amazing deals on a number of domestics, such as Crown Vic/Grand Marquis. That was one (or two) cars I was looking at recently because the discounts on them were absolutely phenomenal.

Having said that, I doubt a person looking at Econo car would consider owning a V8 gas guzzler (although I'm all for V8s).

Anyone that buys a Grand Mark or Crown Vic that doesnt have Capt, Sgt, Officer or Grandma/Grandpa before there name, needs there head examined, nevermind picking one over a Cobalt.

How was it in terms of power, road noise, etc? Also... what is the background on the motor? All new and solid?

The power kinda was really unexpected . Its not that it was exactly fast , but it felt very qwik for a small 4cyl car like this . It always felt like it had power , there really wasnt any laggy spots at all . It wasnt buzzy at all and imo , was really refined and smooth at all rpm's . Like I said in intial post , this thing is vault . I didnt have the radio on while I was driving it , no tire noise , it felt solid and was rattle and squeek free over all type of pavement . I really couldnt fault it for anything and Im a picky sob . As far as I know , its a carryover 140 hp 2.2 ecotec . I didnt really have any interest in a base model so I didnt really pay attention to the mechanicals of the engine in car I drove .

Mecca - I just had called gates a couple months ago and told them I was interested and they called when they got one in .

good step for gm, we will see how it sells, probly will be at rentals galore.

Too bad the 4 door at least looks hideous as all hell. Blah, civic for same thing. =P but it is a step in the right direction.

Am I the ONLY one that thinks the Cobalts are UGLY?

The 2 door isn't AS BAD, but the 4 door is horrible! I liked the Cavi better!

The 2 door looks good from the front and side, but the rear is way off... Those tail lamps and the height off of the ground is what ruins it to me...

Looks like they tried to make a "smaller" Impala rear end...ugg...

Maybe when I see one in real life, I'll think differently but I still think its not going to be what Chevy thinks it will.

Am I the ONLY one that thinks the Cobalts are UGLY?

The 2 door isn't AS BAD, but the 4 door is horrible! I liked the Cavi better!

The 2 door looks good from the front and side, but the rear is way off... Those tail lamps and the height off of the ground is what ruins it to me...

Looks like they tried to make a "smaller" Impala rear end...ugg...

Maybe when I see one in real life, I'll think differently but I still think its not going to be what Chevy thinks it will.


I agree that the sedan's roofline / C-Pillar area is awkward looking... that is really my only beef with it's styling though.

It looks odd in pictures, but up close it isnt as noticable. I see the same thing with the Mazda3's sedan...but somehow they pulled it off better?

The more I see Mazda 3s on the road, the more I think they are goofy looking. Compact sedans have gotten taller to allow more interior room (thank God, since I'm a fairly tall guy) - see the Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Focus, Ion, and so on. The Cobalt sedan looks just fine to me in person, in a utilitarian kind of way (like most of the above mentioned cars). The Mazda 3s that I see have some weird things going on in profile and the rear 3/4 view. The 6 is a pretty car, but it doesn't work as well on the 3. Says I, anyway.

Dante and Darth,

Have you seen the 4 door in person? I've seen 2 LTs in person now at shows...they look GREAT in person. Not as good as the coupe, but the odd look to the rear pillars looks far better in person...I too shared your opinion until I saw one up close.

The more I see it, the more I think about it, the more I like it :D I just wish they took this car and grew it a bit and made it a Malibu instead. I really want one, but going from a GP to a Cobalt, size-wise, might suck.

Not that the Malibu is so bad, but when I saw a black Cobalt LT at a show I asked the GM rep "The same car line that produces this produces THAT??" pointing to a Malibu LS. Malibus I think get more of a bum rap on here than they deserve, but the Cobalt is so good, it makes you wonder...

Dante and Darth,

Have you seen the 4 door in person? I've seen 2 LTs in person now at shows...they look GREAT in person. Not as good as the coupe, but the odd look to the rear pillars looks far better in person...I too shared your opinion until I saw one up close.



Yes, I've seen them for quite a while now.

I live near Lordstown Assembly, and I've seen pilot cars driving around with MFG plates for a few months.

I still think the C-Pillar area is quirky looking in person.

This is my only problem with the car though, and I don't think it's downright hideous or anyhting.... just a little dis-proportional or something.

:metal: Great review :D

BTW, how do you get on that list of having dealers call YOU?? Wish I had that kinda stroke :(

I know them, they know me. They want my $$ :lol:

I still think the C-Pillar area is quirky looking in person.

Kinda like the Cavalier sedan, which also had a C-pillar that was "quirky looking."

This is my only problem with the car though, and I don't think it's downright hideous or anyhting.... just a little dis-proportional or something.

Again, the Cobalt reminds me of when the Cavalier was rebodied just about 10 years ago. The new car shares little with the Cavalier - except for the carried over drivetrain - but the Cobalt upholds the tradition of a borderline attractive coupe and slightly ugly sedan.

What I am about to say shows how shi!!y Gm advertising is. I work at a Saturn dealership and if you guys want to test out the driveability of a cobalt SS take an Ion redline coupe out for a drive. IDENTICAL powertrain and same platform and handling. The only thing is the build quality is not to the cobalt SS's but close. Drive one and you would be surprised, has long has the wheelhop can be tuned out. I wanted the buy a redline they stickered for $22.8K loaded. I could have gotten the car new for $14K with my discount and I wanted to but I am buying a house. Test drive one you won't be dissapointed. Me and an engineer took one to the track and everyone was asking what it was and the car was on the showroom for 9 months. The next week we sold all 9 of them.

I work at a Saturn dealership and if you guys want to test out the driveability of a cobalt SS take an Ion redline coupe out for a drive. IDENTICAL powertrain and same platform and handling.

1. Do you ever feel like the Maytag repairman?

2. Now that Saturn is well down the road to total "badge-engineering," does anyone remember why GM started this division to begin with?

3. I'm not sure why GM needs both the Ion Redline and Cobalt SS?

1. Do you ever feel like the Maytag repairman?

The redline is hardly in that catagory ;)

2. Now that Saturn is well down the road to total "badge-engineering," does anyone remember why GM started this division to begin with?

Correct me if Im wrong , but almost all manufactures use this concept yet GM gets bashed the hardest for it . Fords new 500 and mercury variation oughta be the biggest violators in some time . Ford is getting the total badge engineering job down to a tee as of late with mercury . At least GM's platform mates in almost all cases does not share any body panels or have the same interior with a different trim . Gm's new mini vans are the sad exception :D The Ion and the cobalt are quite different from each other visually , in and out .

I work for saturn part time , spend a day in a Saturn dealer and it still is a different kind of car company . Now it just needs good product to go along with its first class dealer expirience ;)

3. I'm not sure why GM needs both the Ion Redline and Cobalt SS?

Frankly , neither do I at the present time . The center dash pod is NEVER going to be desireable . The redline with a convential interior would have sold much much better . Ive heard time and time again , " I cant get over center guage pod" . With Saturn going upmarket , maaaaaybe if their new models are well recieved , they can pull off a Civic/RSX type thing with the redline being the upmarket RSX equivilent . As an example .

Saturns are great cars (My wife and I have an ION QC3 and Vue AWD v6) to go with our Mini Cooper. While Saturns rarely ever win a direct comparison in magazines and etc for refinement and etc but the one quality that never gets factored in on a Saturns total score in magazines is how you are treated at the dealer after you buy the car. I dont care how great a car performs or how nice the interior is if you just endup getting shafted at the dealer when you try to get it serviced.

Saturns are great cars (My wife and I have an ION QC3 and Vue AWD v6) to go with our Mini Cooper. While Saturns rarely ever win a direct comparison in magazines and etc for refinement and etc but the one quality that never gets factored in on a Saturns total score in magazines is how you are treated at the dealer after you buy the car. I dont care how great a car performs or how nice the interior is if you just endup getting shafted at the dealer when you try to get it serviced.

Among GM divisions , theres your still different after all these years car company Redzed .

1. I saw my first Cobalt on a dealer lot today. I think the 4 door looks good.
Way better then the Cavalier! And if you line it up next to a Civic, Corrola and theat real ugly Sentra---the Coblat 4 door still looks better. Interior looks nice too.

The 2 door looks awesome.

2. The Ion and Cobalt SS S/C are not idnetical. The Coblat has 18's VS the Redlines 17's. The suspension is supposed to be more aggresively calibrated.

3. You CAN get a 5 speed in a 4 door Cobalt.

Among GM divisions , theres your still different after all these years car company Redzed .


Taking one of our Saturns to get serviced is always a good experience and it nice to get free sodas, coffee, donuts , and etc while waiting (or get dropped off or picked up for free by one of their shuttles if needed) .

Since most Saturn dealers have only been around 15 years or less they have fewer cars to service and can usually service your car quickly and they also provide a free car wash so its always clean when you pick it up.

The thing I will miss the most about the new-generation of Saturns is that they will all eventually lose the non-denting polymer panels by 2007 and those same polymer panels helped keep my 1994 Z28 Camaro looking like new (and non-dented) for 10 years.

my apologies. You cannot get a 5 speed ina 4 dr LT model. But you can in an LS and just load up the options and you'd almost be the exact same as an LT.

Still dumb you can't get a 5 speed in the LT--please get a clue GM. This is not rocket science. :rolleyes:

Taking one of our Saturns to get serviced is always a good experience and it nice to get free sodas, coffee, donuts , and etc while waiting (or get dropped off or picked up for free by one of their shuttles if needed).

Since most Saturn dealers have only been around 15 years or less they have fewer cars to service and can usually service your car quickly and they also provide a free car wash so its always clean when you pick it up.

Every dealership service department that I've been in lately offers coffee, a shuttle van and "a-free-car-wash" that I didn't want to begin with. I guess the Saturn "difference" comes down to the donuts.


The thing I will miss the most about the new-generation of Saturns is that they will all eventually lose the non-denting polymer panels by 2007 and those same polymer panels helped keep my 1994 Z28 Camaro looking like new (and non-dented) for 10 years.

I think that the failure of just about every "no-dent" plastic bodied product is the reason why the feature is dying. Think about it...the Pontiac Fiero....the Lumina APV/Transport/Silhouette...Camaro/Firebird F4....the Saturn L-series.... Every plastic bodied GM product has failed to sell, except for the Corvette - but there again, they never marketed 'Vettes like Saturns. Thankfully.

When it comes down to it, some uninformed types see the plastic panels as making a car "less safe," something that just isn't true. Right or wrong, the "no-dent" marketing pitch is a "no-go." Personally, I don't trust plastic panels because they only conceal corrosion in a steel bodied car. They plastic panels are fine on my Camaro, if only because the car will never see salt, but I still have to worry about ding on those big bulgy STEEL rear fenders.

Every plastic bodied GM product has failed to sell, except for the Corvette - but there again, they never marketed 'Vette like Saturns. Thankfully.

>>>Every dealership service department that I've been in lately offers coffee, a shuttle van and "a-free-car-wash" that I didn't want to begin with. I guess the Saturn "difference" comes down to the donuts.

It not just those things but the whole experience of visiting the Saturn dealership is far better then any dealership (Mostly Chevrolet dealers) I have ever been too. Im sure Lexus and other luxury car dealers treat customers pretty good but for someone buying a $17,000 car its pretty cool.

I think the non-denting polymers are great and especially since it prevents me from worrying about my car getting all dinged up in a parking lot but most people just dont care enough about them and Saturns unique space-frame construction that supports them. I Dont blame GM go getting rid of the polymers to cut cost and share platforms with other GM brands and if more Saturns start looking like the kappa-based SKY then it will all be worth it.

I think the non-denting polymers are great and especially since it prevents me from worrying about my car getting all dinging up in a parking lot
Non-dent polymer is the only way to go on a car that will see daily service.

>>> Every plastic bodied GM product has failed to sell, except for the Corvette - but there again, they never marketed 'Vette like Saturns.

Actually the Saturn Vue (with its polymer panels) has been a sales success ;)

I live 10 miles from Spring Hill TN, where the plant for the Vue and Ion is. From what I've heard, the Ion is not selling. And I can't blame people, the car is ugly, has a horrendous interior, and I thought the steering felt kinda strange when I drove one. There have been numerous times that the factory has shut down because of low demand for the Ion.

Saturn did a much nicer job with the Vue though. I like the style of the Red Line Vue, painting all that grey plastic really cleaned up and dressed it up. I still don't understand why GM has to pay Honda to put their motor in it. I believe it is the ONLY GM car with a Honda motor. Why couldn't GM have put in its 3.6 DOCH V6? Or put in the 3.8 S/C V6?

It sends a bad message to the public that GM is incompetent and cannot design a good motor when it has to pay Honda to use their engine

I live 10 miles from Spring Hill TN, where the plant for the Vue and Ion is. From what I've heard, the Ion is not selling. And I can't blame people, the car is ugly, has a horrendous interior, and I thought the steering felt kinda strange when I drove one. There have been numerous times that the factory has shut down because of low demand for the Ion.

Saturn did a much nicer job with the Vue though. I like the style of the Red Line Vue, painting all that grey plastic really cleaned up and dressed it up. I still don't understand why GM has to pay Honda to put their motor in it. I believe it is the ONLY GM car with a Honda motor. Why couldn't GM have put in its 3.6 DOCH V6? Or put in the 3.8 S/C V6?

It sends a bad message to the public that GM is incompetent and cannot design a good motor when it has to pay Honda to use their engine

Well for one--the 3.6L DOHC engine wouldn't have been avaible in time--or at
least when GM wanted.

For two, while the 3800 S/C produuces good power it would not fit Saturns image at all. It is a rather crude by todays standards. Put it to rest please.

This Honda engine thing was all the result of GM buying the Honda engine and Honda buying GM diesels for use in Europe. Deal was a made a few years back so GM is kinda stuck for abiding by it and using that engine. Although I would hope GM's 3.6L is going to take its place now that it is in production.

I like the shorter wheelbse look of the Vue---the Equinox looks stretched and it just doesn't work.

It not just those things but the whole experience of visiting the Saturn dealership is far better then any dealership (Mostly Chevrolet dealers) I have ever been too. Im sure Lexus and other luxury car dealers treat customers pretty good but for someone buying a $17,000 car its pretty cool.


1. I spent a whole day buying my Armada. I enjoyed the "haggling" and left feeling like I'd won.

2. My "non-luxury" Nissan dealership has the nicest service department I've ever seen. Between the 50" inch plasma screen in the waiting room, drive-up check-in and a free rental car - even if they're just going to have your vehicle for a couple of hours. The service manager is in a glass office (no hiding?) and you can view every service bay throught plate glass windows. You actually can watch the technicians while they work on your vehicle.

...But there were no donuts.:lol:

3. Okay, my local Chevy dealership is terrible in comparison. It might seem weird, but I never had a single warranty claim on my Z28. I guess service wasn't an issue in my F-body experience. Thankfully.:lol:

1. I spent a whole day buying my Armada. I enjoyed the "haggling" and left feeling like I'd won.


I agree, you get a better deal when you haggle.

Also, I never take my car to the Chevy dealership. And I will never take a car I own to the dealership, unless it is warranty work or they offer free maitence like BMW, Lexus, Caddillac, etc. You get ripped off when going to a dealership. I also believe there are a couple of punks that work in the shop at my Chevy dealership. I know if they ever had to drive my car, they would have way too much fun. The place where I go is run by old men who know what they are doing and charge $58 an hour for labor.

>>> I spent a whole day buying my Armada. I enjoyed the "haggling" and left feeling like I'd won.

While you might spend a whole day haggling I spent about two hour from start to finish and I even haggled the dealer down an extra $600 (Saturn delaers can be haggled even though they are not supposed to do) as well as the standard 0% financing for 5 years with a bonus $1500 rebate.

Even if I didnt buy a Saturn I would no way have wasted a whole day haggling I would just find out what invoice was on a particular vehicle I wanted and fax over my offer to 2-3 different dealer's lease-managers (bypassing salesperson and their commision) and I would get the deal I wanted even before I would step one foot on the the showroom floor. :D

I went to the dealership today and saw one. I didn't like the looks of the base model one but it doesn't seem too bad. I want to test drive one of the SS ones.

Every plastic bodied GM product has failed to sell, except for the Corvette - but there again, they never marketed 'Vette like Saturns. Thankfully.

I would argue that GM hasnt supported/marketed some of its plastic paneled products like fiero, camaro, firebird/ta. Fiero moved 369,000 units in 5 years, Corvette would take 11 years to sell that many.

While you might spend a whole day haggling I spent about two hour from start to finish and I even haggled the dealer down an extra $600 (Saturn delaers can be haggled even though they are not supposed to do) as well as the standard 0% financing for 5 years with a bonus $1500 rebate.

1. I actually left the dealership after my morning "session," allowing the general manager to marinate in his own juices. By late afternoon, they still hadn't sold a single vehicle all day....

...so they were more willing to agree to my (un)reasonable offer.

2. I wouldn't have still bought the Armada if there hadn't been a rebate - which was just "gravy" in the end. If Nissan hadn't bungled the launch and marketing of the Armada, I might have willingly paid full MSRP.[/QUOTE]


Even if I didnt buy a Saturn I would no way have wasted a whole day haggling I would just find out what invoice was on a particular vehicle I wanted and fax over my offer to 2-3 different dealer's lease-managers (bypassing salesperson and their commision) and I would get the deal I wanted even before I would step one foot on the the showroom floor. :D

The "fax the manager" routine is something that's been in my family since the '80s. I never even visited my Chevrolet dealer until after I'd ordered my Z28. This time around I took the hands on approach because I was buying off the lot. The fax routine doesn't work as well with inventory vehicles. With an inventory vehicle you have to look it over in person to make sure you aren't buying a 10-month old demo with tons of miles, door dings and a million tiny scratches from an automatic carwash.

Of course, when it came time to buy I'd already done my "ultra-high performance" test drive at another dealer. I was ready to deal and I could have a deal done in a half-hour if I hadn't held out. Man, that was fun.:lol:

Of course, when it came time to buy I'd already done my "ultra-high performance" test drive at another dealer. I was ready to deal and I could have a deal done in a half-hour if I hadn't held out. Man, that was fun.:lol:

Really dude, nobody thinks you're cool for how you're OMG SUPER COOL I WRECK CARS TAHT AREN'T MINE LOL. That really only impresses people in the 10th grade.

Really dude, nobody thinks you're cool for how you're OMG SUPER COOL I WRECK CARS TAHT AREN'T MINE LOL. That really only impresses people in the 10th grade.

1. Putting a car "through its paces" doesn't involve a "wreck." The purpose of a test drive is to "see what the thing can do." A test drive should be fully under the control of prospective buyer - it shouldn't be just another a selling opportunity for a sleazebag salesperson.

2. You put a car "you don't own" to the acid test because (1) it's too late to change you mind once you've signed on the dotted line and (2) the car is owned by a car dealership, not you. Do you feel that YOU are less worthy...or less moral...or less deserving...or less honest...than a CAR DEALER? I would hope not.

3. Remember, car salesman, dealership managers and owners are far harder on "demonstrators" than you would be with you own car.

4. Don't buy at the same dealership where you test drive. Go to the worst, most evil franchise in the area to do your test drive. Don't buy the unit you drove, don't do a credit application, just push them to see how far you can go.

Figure out what you want and what you want to pay, then go to the dealership where you plan to buy.

1. Putting a car "through its paces" doesn't involve a "wreck." The purpose of a test drive is to "see what the thing can do." A test drive should be fully under the control of prospective buyer - it shouldn't be just another a selling opportunity for a sleazebag salesperson.

2. You put a car "you don't own" to the acid test because (1) it's too late to change you mind once you've signed on the dotted line and (2) the car is owned by a car dealership, not you. Do you feel that YOU are less worthy...or less moral...or less deserving...or less honest...than a CAR DEALER? I would hope not.

3. Remember, car salesman, dealership managers and owners are far harder on "demonstrators" than you would be with you own car.

4. Don't buy at the same dealership where you test drive. Go to the worst, most evil franchise in the area to do your test drive. Don't buy the unit you drove, don't do a credit application, just push them to see how far you can go.

Figure out what you want and what you want to pay, then go to the dealership where you plan to buy.

Your views/opinions on this matter are completely asinine and immoral. That fact that you feel that you are special, and should do your best to thrash a car knowing that you are not going to purchase it, and feel that it's OK because the dealership owns it is insane.

Not only have you done possible deterioration to vehicle that somebody may purchase in the future, but you have potentially caused the unsuspecting salesman a lot of money by completely wasting their time. Those guys don't get paid by the hour, and you could have prevented them from helping someone whom was actually interested in purchasing a vehicle from them. That's OK though, right, because you wouldn't mind somebody not only making you work for free, but possibly lose money. Maybe it's just OK because it's the other guy. :rolleyes:

You definitely are not as smart and witty as you appear to think you are. Other people realize that they can do these things too. The difference is they have morals. :mad:

I've yet to see one in person (outside of autoshow), but the pics of the SS coupe looked really good. I was mostly impressed with the interior.

A major improvement over the cavvy, and a nice much-needed addition to chevy's car lineup :cool:. It will do well for them.

I've yet to see one in person (outside of autoshow), but the pics of the SS coupe looked really good. I was mostly impressed with the interior.

A major improvement over the cavvy, and a nice much-needed addition to chevy's car lineup :cool:. It will do well for them.

What's stupid is that GM is only advertising the SS coupe. While that is a great car, not everyone is looking for a sporty coupe. The sedan is an aswesome car, and people woulld flock to these, if anyone knows their there. :rolleyes:

GM has the worst marketing programs of any company.:(

What's stupid is that GM is only advertising the SS coupe. While that is a great car, not everyone is looking for a sporty coupe. The sedan is an aswesome car, and people woulld flock to these, if anyone knows their there. :rolleyes:

GM has the worst marketing programs of any company.:(Geez, the car is just reaching dealerships! The Cavalier sold pretty damn well (albeit with incentives) without a huge advertising budget. When was the last time you saw a Cavalier commercial? I'd guess we'll see plenty of print ads for both versions pretty soon.

Geez, the car is just reaching dealerships! The Cavalier sold pretty damn well (albeit with incentives) without a huge advertising budget. When was the last time you saw a Cavalier commercial? I'd guess we'll see plenty of print ads for both versions pretty soon.

True, they just arrived, but the sedans came before the coupes, yet there are no ads for it.

Everybody knows what a Cavalier is, and I think having them in peoples memory, and not showing pictures in TV is better for it's sales.;)

It's just that nobody knows there is a sedan. I've been pretty upset with GMs advertising for quite awhile now anyway, so it's easy for them to make me upset.

Geez, the car is just reaching dealerships! The Cavalier sold pretty damn well (albeit with incentives) without a huge advertising budget. .

Thankfully the Cobalt should need them . The car I drove was one hell of a car for the $142xx that was on the window sticker . Ive since looked at a totally loaded LT with aluminum dash trim , white guages with LED back lighting , leather , ect ect and the sticker on it was below $17500 , I dont remember the exact # .