500 HP SVT Cobra all but certain??

From Dec. Motor Trend:
"Work is progressing on the Mustang Cobra, which Ford SVT is set to introduce as a 2006 model, with an independent rear suspension and a supercharged 5.4-litre V-8. SVT's goal is rumored to be 500hp, enough to give the Z06 a run for its money."

I think I found my next car (as long as it's not overweight, overpriced, etc.)

... and a supercharged 5.4-litre V-8. SVT's goal is rumored to be 500hp, enough to give the Z06 a run for its money."
:lol: unless that thing goes on a serious diet, I doubt it will be anywhere near the performance of a ZO6.

2 things I wouldn't bet on:

1. Having "just" 500 horsepower
2. Being called "Cobra". ;)

I thought that the "Cobra" title was dead?

The GT engine is a 5.4L 550hp/500tq and that one is hand built. Though I see it as possible, making a 500hp/500tq motor seems reasonable... But that'd add to the already $35k sticker, probably pushsing it up another several thousand if not many thousands... I see that as possible, but at what point will people start to say "okay... it's a mustang" and though it is an incredible car with looks that kinda grow on you it is certainly not direct vette competition.

The 04 GT was 3347lb
The 04 Cobra was 3665lb
The 05 GT is 3450lb

So we can speculate a theoretical weight of 3768lb (hehe) and a pricetag for 100hp more, $3k seems more then fair, so we're talking a 500hp/500tq 3700lb car for perhaps a $38k msrp...

The 05 C6 standard is 3179lb, 400hp/400tq, and $43,445msrp.

power to weight the C6 has .126hp/lb where the Cobra would have .135, so the Cobra would still have a better power to weight ratio...

However, the LS2 isnt a 400hp motor, and if they technically rate it to 430hp which it is nearly good for already, then the two cars would have an identical power to weight ratio. Not bad on the mustang's part at all - but will it sell???

500hp from a mustang is possible as there is nothing better in the ford lineup aside from the GT.

But a 500hp Cobra with no weight reduction would be (by the numbers) as fast or slightly faster then a standard C6. A next gen Z06 with 500hp and supposedly it will be more trim then it's counterpart would mean the power to weight ratio (for the same weight even) would jump to .157... in order to get that power to weight ratio from a 3700lb stang, it'd need 582hp... which is more then the GT40 now has...

And I thought the new GT40 was supposedly going to be light - it's rated at 3475lb!!!

A create engine version of the Ford GT 550HP 5.4L is $45K :eek: I take it is this is true then the engine will probably be a 3 valve?

A create engine version of the Ford GT 550HP 5.4L is $45K :eek: I take it is this is true then the engine will probably be a 3 valve?
I think it will be a 3v with a twin-screw supercharger...
and yes, weight is a HUGE concern, along with a fuel consumption tax which will certainly be higher than the current $1000 (15 mpg anyone??)...but we'll wait and see

2 things I wouldn't bet on:

1. Having "just" 500 horsepower
2. Being called "Cobra". ;)

if it's rated at more than 500, then I honestly wonder where the ceiling is, because they are not leaving themselves much room to grow...if the 2006 SVT Mustang was say, 550 HP, then buyers would expect 600 HP for 2007...

I say the whatever the SVT car has, its going to be sub-500. I say its going to be a moddified 3v 4.6 supercharged 450ish hp. The next Mach1/Bullit car will probably hold a 3v 5.4 making 370-390hp.

500hp is doable, but it seems overboard at the same time. Especially for a relatively affordable mustang model. 500hp sounds like something a Cobra-R would be packing.

Whatever it is, it'll have something north of 420 horses that's for sure, which is still a lot. I'm hoping for something north of or near 450 horses. That and i really hope they address the weight issue. The previous coupe was 36XXlbs, and the new platform seems to carry a bit more weight than the fox-cars.

500hp is doable, but it seems overboard at the same time. Especially for a relatively affordable mustang model. 500hp sounds like something a Cobra-R would be packing.

Whatever it is, it'll have something north of 420 horses that's for sure, which is still a lot. I'm hoping for something north of or near 450 horses. That and i really hope they address the weight issue. The previous coupe was 36XXlbs, and the new platform seems to carry a bit more weight than the fox-cars.
I think you hit it on the head.

I'd start questioning the associated structure of the Mustang platform at those power levels....

Making a Corvette with hydroformed rails, low weight and terrific stiffness handle that kind of power is one thing, building a much more pedestrian passenger car to do the same is quite another.

I'll be interested to see how it works out!

Should make for an interesting horsepower war. GM would most likely not be caught sitting on their hands for that one... especially the GTO and CTSv.

I thought that the "Cobra" title was dead?

The GT engine is a 5.4L 550hp/500tq and that one is hand built. Though I see it as possible, making a 500hp/500tq motor seems reasonable... But that'd add to the already $35k sticker, probably pushsing it up another several thousand if not many thousands... I see that as possible, but at what point will people start to say "okay... it's a mustang" and though it is an incredible car with looks that kinda grow on you it is certainly not direct vette competition.

The 04 GT was 3347lb
The 04 Cobra was 3665lb
The 05 GT is 3450lb

So we can speculate a theoretical weight of 3768lb (hehe) and a pricetag for 100hp more, $3k seems more then fair, so we're talking a 500hp/500tq 3700lb car for perhaps a $38k msrp...

The 05 C6 standard is 3179lb, 400hp/400tq, and $43,445msrp.

power to weight the C6 has .126hp/lb where the Cobra would have .135, so the Cobra would still have a better power to weight ratio...

However, the LS2 isnt a 400hp motor, and if they technically rate it to 430hp which it is nearly good for already, then the two cars would have an identical power to weight ratio. Not bad on the mustang's part at all - but will it sell???

500hp from a mustang is possible as there is nothing better in the ford lineup aside from the GT.

But a 500hp Cobra with no weight reduction would be (by the numbers) as fast or slightly faster then a standard C6. A next gen Z06 with 500hp and supposedly it will be more trim then it's counterpart would mean the power to weight ratio (for the same weight even) would jump to .157... in order to get that power to weight ratio from a 3700lb stang, it'd need 582hp... which is more then the GT40 now has...

And I thought the new GT40 was supposedly going to be light - it's rated at 3475lb!!!

And yet it ran an 11.1@131 :eek:

But as to the Cobra vs C6. I agree, a 500hp Cobra will be slightly faster(if it has torque management also). If it escapes having that little glitch in the programming then it's a low 12 car vs a high 12 car.

I'd start questioning the associated structure of the Mustang platform at those power levels....

Making a Corvette with hydroformed rails, low weight and terrific stiffness handle that kind of power is one thing, building a much more pedestrian passenger car to do the same is quite another.

I'll be interested to see how it works out!

Should make for an interesting horsepower war. GM would most likely not be caught sitting on their hands for that one... especially the GTO and CTSv.

Hrm....I think thats another reason why the Camaro should be on the Kappa chassis due to its stiffer, and possible stronger chassis to handle the abuse of a very powerful power plant! But Im sure that Zeta will be fine to handle all the power GM can throw at it. :D

I say the whatever the SVT car has, its going to be sub-500. I say its going to be a moddified 3v 4.6 supercharged 450ish hp.
Based completely on your hatred for Ford and your disgust to see them put out an 'affordable' vehicle with as much power as GMs halo car?

Based completely on your hatred for Ford and your disgust to see them put out an 'affordable' vehicle with as much power as GMs halo car?

If Cobra makes anything north of say, 475hp, I would expect it to be packing the GT engine, and as such, even detuned, will be significantly more expensive than the old ones. Im thinking north of $38k. But thats ok marketing wise, because Ford is going to slot its special editions in between Mustang GT and Cobra.

Assuming that is true, which might be a stretch, would Cobra outperform a C6? Probably. But the prices are going to be close, and ZO6 is going to be lurking out there waiting to stuff that Cobra back in its basket.

Although I can't remember the source, I remember Ford stating that there will be MANY types of special editions of this car coming out after 05. This will factor in as well, since the names "boss" and "shelby" have themselves been thrown around many times.
With the GT at 300hp, and we already have seen the 400hp Cobra, a S/C'ed 5.4L doesn't sound so bad. They did do a marketing test a while back with its V10 Mustang a while back, probably to test interest in big displacement engines.

Personally, I can't see people spending too much for a top end Pony (a volume product) but there is a lot of marketing value to this nostalgia-ridden car.

I'm beggining to think ford is going to ride this pony into the ground. They realize the importance of it which is more than can be said for the general. But someone at ford said something along the lines of 7 variants, although two of those are probably Vert/Coupe.

The hp numbers are gonna have to get pretty large to be any real difference between the GT and the 4+ cars on top of it, but 500 n/a is pushing reason. I'm also concerned with everybody already buying shelby bodykits and stripes if all those SEs are going to look as thrown together as those and the aftermarket products...

What we need is a base V8 Camaro, V12 SS model... and VV16 Z28 too put them in thier place... :p :rolleyes:

wasn't there a rumor of Ford going back to N/A? I wonldn't be supprised to see a tricked out Cammer 5.0L.

For affordablity and max power, I think they would be best off going with a twin screw 3v 4.6L putting out 450HP. That way it is in the price range of the current Cobra and leaves room to grow to 500HP over the rest of the S197s lifespan.

I'd rather buy a $35K 450HP Cobra than a $45K 500HP. Save that extra $10,000 for a new pully ;)

The zo6 is going to be hard to beat, 512hp LS7 427 alittle over 2900lbs.

The zo6 is going to be hard to beat, 512hp LS7 427 alittle over 2900lbs.
Again....where the heck are you people getting this random information?

The hp numbers are gonna have to get pretty large to be any real difference between the GT and the 4+ cars on top of it, but 500 n/a is pushing reason.

FYI....I can't imagine any scenario in which a Modular V8 gets anywhere near 500 HP from the factory in N/A trim. Perhaps with a new V8, but not the current one.

Again....where the heck are you people getting this random information?
:lol:
if your gonna state a specific number, (512hp), you better name the source or be pre-established(to us) on the topic

FYI....I can't imagine any scenario in which a Modular V8 gets anywhere near 500 HP from the factory in N/A trim. Perhaps with a new V8, but not the current one.

If I'm not mistaken they've gotten 440 hp out of the 5.0 L "Cammer" crate engine in N/A mode, though I don't know if you consider that factory or not. I think 460 hp would be doable with a 5.4L N/A motor. Regardless, I'm really curious to see what happens with the Cobra and what motor it really gets.

If I'm not mistaken they've gotten 440 hp out of the 5.0 L "Cammer" crate engine in N/A mode, though I don't know if you consider that factory or not. I think 460 hp would be doable with a 5.4L N/A motor. Regardless, I'm really curious to see what happens with the Cobra and what motor it really gets.
the Cammer 5.0 is nowhere NEAR street legal, iirc

Again....where the heck are you people getting this random information?


Where have you been buddy this is old news!

Again....where the heck are you people getting this random information?

Hang up the phone with your boyfriend and go to gminsidenews.com, zo6vette.com or digitial corvettes. :D

the Cammer 5.0 is nowhere NEAR street legal, iirc

And expensive like gold plated urinals.

I'd start questioning the associated structure of the Mustang platform at those power levels....

Making a Corvette with hydroformed rails, low weight and terrific stiffness handle that kind of power is one thing, building a much more pedestrian passenger car to do the same is quite another.

I'll be interested to see how it works out!

Should make for an interesting horsepower war. GM would most likely not be caught sitting on their hands for that one... especially the GTO and CTSv.

Valid points, but apparently not insurmountable.
My concern is more with crash safety and cabin integrity than power-related.

Last month's MM&FF did an article on an '04 Cobra that sported a new centrifugal ProCharger unit in place of the stock Eaton twin screw unit. It was chipped and tuned as well. It threw-down 650 RWHP, and just over 500 RWTQ. It was playing with 10's - driver's joyride. No roll cage, no sub-frames, no nothing. It was holding up to all the abuse they could give it, with no detectable body twist or metal separations. That's not bad. The new DC2 unit is actually MUCH better than the last gen platform as far as structural integrity, stiffness, and force distribution, so it should hold up equally well if not better.

Will the car above still be together after 200 hard passes... I have my doubts. But if you are gonna do that much hard racing, you should have the cage or have your head examined IMO. Also, they bolted on slicks for their tests... I don't think street-legal tires will allow you to put that much Tq down without boiling - which leads to my next point...

Just how much power can the street car on street tires handle anyways? Especially when it comes to the common Dudley-Donut-Dude that can't half drive a normal car, much less something with 500hp!!!
To me, it's getting to the point of pure bragging rights and even a little Pnis-envy.
I definitely should enjoy Ford's current run on performance and power, but as an engineer I can't help but start thinking enough is enough. I want the car successful, safe, and affordable. If I decide to go 500hp, let me do it on my own accord with Ford parts or aftermarket peices. Why risk the lawsuits, liability, costs, insurance rates, and reputation of a great basic car on some kind of a special-edition "exotic"? :no:
I'd grin a bigger grin if Ford said they were working on a 2800-lb stripper-version of the Mustang (ummm... un-Cobra :D ) that will incorporate the same 400hp Cobra motor from '04. :cool:

One other thing...
speaking of finding 500 or 550 from a modular with affordable costs...
The blown 5.4 in the GT(40) is a true exotic - using forged components, high-alloy parts, and unique machined components as well (like cams, headwork, etc.). But the 400 hp cobra engine is a very viable platform.

Ford has quite a slew of parts bins to raid now, including the modular BOSS engines developed in Australia. Simply jumping from the 4.6 block to the Navigator 5.4 block will make a substantial HP difference at the same level of boost and cam aggression.

500 N/A - not too likely IMO.
But don't snicker at a 500+ hp modular from Ford at a fair price (unlike the cammer crate engine right now).
It CAN be done. (May already be done! :D )

...That and i really hope they address the weight issue. The previous coupe was 36XXlbs, and the new platform seems to carry a bit more weight than the fox-cars.

Independent Rear Suspension DOESN'T make a car lightweight. :no:

Check out the weight of pretty much any 4 or more passenger car on the road comparing IRS with a live axle. :eek:

The only 4 passenger car you'll find with IRS at a decent weight is the BMW 3 series. But when you realize it's the size of a Cavalier, 3200 pounds doesn't sound all that great.

...snipped....


Just how much power can the street car on street tires handle anyways? Especially when it comes to the common Dudley-Donut-Dude that can't half drive a normal car, much less something with 500hp!!!
To me, it's getting to the point of pure bragging rights and even a little Pnis-envy.
I definitely should enjoy Ford's current run on performance and power, but as an engineer I can't help but start thinking enough is enough. I want the car successful, safe, and affordable. If I decide to go 500hp, let me do it on my own accord with Ford parts or aftermarket peices. Why risk the lawsuits, liability, costs, insurance rates, and reputation of a great basic car on some kind of a special-edition "exotic"? :no:
I'd grin a bigger grin if Ford said they were working on a 2800-lb stripper-version of the Mustang (ummm... un-Cobra :D ) that will incorporate the same 400hp Cobra motor from '04. :cool:


I have to TOTALLY disagree on this take.

The last Cobra WAS a 425hp car. I repeat it WAS a 425hp car. And it still only pulled high 12s@111 or so. A 75 hp bump to 500 is not going to make the stang some uncontrollable tire melting beast. But it will keep it ahead of the Vette, which is Ford's intent. Mid 12s@114-115(with TM) is not a problem for the target buyer.

Furthermore. Modding has its problems. I like my warranty. I'd like to keep it for a while. The car should simply be fast and powerful stock.

And finally I can't see why you'd prefer an 4.6L iron blocked nose weight with the old roots charger on it over the AL 5.4 GT block with Lysholm. In a stripped 2800lb egg crate, you'd get about a 60-40 weight split.

I have to TOTALLY disagree on this take.

The last Cobra WAS a 425hp car. I repeat it WAS a 425hp car. And it still only pulled high 12s@111 or so. A 75 hp bump to 500 is not going to make the stang some uncontrollable tire melting beast. But it will keep it ahead of the Vette, which is Ford's intent. Mid 12s@114-115(with TM) is not a problem for the target buyer.

Furthermore. Modding has its problems. I like my warranty. I'd like to keep it for a while. The car should simply be fast and powerful stock.

And finally I can't see why you'd prefer an 4.6L iron blocked nose weight with the old roots charger on it over the AL 5.4 GT block with Lysholm. In a stripped 2800lb egg crate, you'd get about a 60-40 weight split.



Why so the ford can keep up or be ahead with a base c6, what are they going to do about the c6 z06?

If Ford wants to truley compete with the Corvette, they are taking the wrong approach by using the Mustang. Even if the new 500 hp Cobra is slightly quicker than the C6, I'd still rather have the lighter, better handling, rarer, and more exotic looking Corvette.

To compete with the Vette, Ford needs to build a two seat sports car for around 50K, not an overpriced Mustang that is pushing 40K.

However, it would still be cool to have a b!tchin 500 hp Mustang. Maybe it will light another fire under GM's a@@. Competiton improves the breed.

Does anyone remember Coletti's quote about weight and horsepower from a while back? Basically, SVT will start looking at weight reduction to meet performance goals rather than continually throwing more horsepower into the product. That could've been a hint at where the next Cobra (or whatever it will be called) is going. So we might be looking at ~450 HP in a 3500 pound car as opposed to 500 HP in a 3800 pound car.

Does anyone remember Coletti's quote about weight and horsepower from a while back? Basically, SVT will start looking at weight reduction to meet performance goals rather than continually throwing more horsepower into the product.
He was referring to the next-gen Lightning, and the escalating HP wars with that Dodge Ram SRT-10, iirc....if it's true that this next killer stang will be supercharged, intercooled, stronger components and be heavily laden with all the options, then the weight will skyrocket unless they cleave it out of somewhere...I'm really interested to see where it ends up, because more than a year ago I predicted on this site that the Cobra would end up even heavier than the current GTO. My estimate at that time was at 3750-3800 lbs

The only 4 passenger car you'll find with IRS at a decent weight is the BMW 3 series. But when you realize it's the size of a Cavalier, 3200 pounds doesn't sound all that great.
not to nitpick, but the Lancer EVO/WRX Sti both seat four, are right around 3200 lbs (each with high-tech AWD) and are easily better performance buys than the 3-series (while being somewhat larger than my 01 Cavalier) :)

I'd like to see the Cobra lose a significant amount of heft, but I agree with Mangum on this one....I doubt it will happen.

Doesn't hurt to hope. :)

He was referring to the next-gen Lightning, and the escalating HP wars with that Dodge Ram SRT-10

I know he was specifically talking about the Lightning at that time, but reading between the lines (at least to me) showed a path that he believed all of SVT's models would take. It only makes sense.

Why so the ford can keep up or be ahead with a base c6, what are they going to do about the c6 z06?


Getting by the next Z06 will require a pulley and tune.

Getting by the next Z06 will require a pulley and tune.


Yea in a drag race, what about stoping, cornering, quality, etc.

The mustang will not be in it's league.

Yea in a drag race, what about stoping, cornering, quality, etc.

The mustang will not be in it's league.


Yes. The Vette is a better car than the Mustang. You get what you pay for.

Hang up the phone with your boyfriend and go to gminsidenews.com, zo6vette.com or digitial corvettes. :D
I'm a member on all of those and moderator on the former. I have yet to see any factual information regarding the Z06's advertised HP. There are a handful of people here that are certain that the Z06 is going to have this and that weight/hp/color choices that seemingly pull this information out of the blue.

Did you really need to quote my same post twice?

Word on the street is that the cobra got pushed back to '07.

At what point will gas prices, insurance co lobbying etc kill the V8 muscle car again.... thats my question.

Pray for 2010 that'll give the Big three time to get to ridiculous levels before they have to stop.