Is GM worried about this car? They should be.

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/dealers/vehicles/2005-Avalon/index.htm#_Toc88045298

3.5L and 280 HP in a Toyota? Not bad. GM appears to lead the market with V8s (LT1/LS1/LS6/LS2/LS7) but its V6 lineup is only playing catch up, if even.

It will be interesting to see if that car will get that good of gas mileage. My mom has a 2000 Avalon and gets 24MPG in town and 28MPG on the highway. Although hers feels like a sled, but I guess that's the tradeoff for the great MPG.

Also, Toyota quality is not perfect. Her car has 85K miles now, and has developed a dash rattle, the paint is fading on the mirrors, the clear coat on the aluminum wheels is starting to mess up, and the rear doors do not line up correctly(its really obvious). This car has never seen an automatic car wash either. Mechanically, the alternator went bad at 80K, and the mass air flow meter went bad at 82K. But it had been completely trouble free until recently. One other thing was that the OEM tires sucked, they lasted about 20,000 miles and were really noisy.

Looks like Toyota will raise the bar even higher. When does this new model come out, 2006 or 2007? I wouldn't be suprised to see the sticker climb even higher with all the improvements they are going to make. The Avalon as it is now is somewhat pricey, it starts at 26K and goes all the way to 33K. You can get a 300C with the Hemi for the same price, or a CTS, or a used ES330, all of which are a much better option IMO.

I think GM will be fine once the 3v (v stands for valves) heads start popping up on the pushrod V6's. The 3.5 makes 200hp with 2v and 3.9 supposively makes 240ish HP. Already the 3.5 makes as much horsepower as the 3.8 and the 3.9 should make as much as the Supercharged 3.8. I dont think that's bad but I think GM could get more HP out of their engines when they start using 3v heads. Also the 5.3 V8 in the trucks make 310hp with 2v. We could probally see LS1 numbers out of the 5.3 around 350hp with the 3v heads I believe. Also don't the 6.0 LS2 have 2v heads and it makes probally over 400hp? Now if I'm wrong on the valve part then correct me of my mistake but the only GM engines I know of that has more than 2v are probally the DOHC engines. If GM could come out with the 3v heads for their engines I say the power output should come up considerabily

Worried? Why spend the money, when you can go over to Lexus and buy an ES or GS? Then you can say you have a Lexus, and not a Toyota.

So GM should be scared about Toyota's uber-boring car having a 280hp V6, but GM's stupid for putting 275-290hp V8's into cars.

280HP is nice, but the car looks boring and is still FWD

For what the avalon cost you could get a CTS or 300C. Impala and GP will come with 300HP V8's & FWD for those that can't give up the FWD.

... but still, those Zeta cars can't come soon enough.

3.5L and 280 HP in a Toyota? Not bad. GM appears to lead the market with V8s (LT1/LS1/LS6/LS2/LS7) but its V6 lineup is only playing catch up, if even.

I wouldnt go that far . Its just think they kinda should more widely used the 3.6 VVT engine which is on par or superior to ALOT of V6's on the market . Instead they choose to have pushrods for the masses , which isnt all bad ...there still great engines . I still love the power and absolutely trouble free 3.8 in my 130,000 mile 97 Bonneville SSE , you just cant beat it ;) :)

90 Z28SS:

Sorry this is off topic but your trans am looks SICK! :eek: :bow:

TONY

Yes, every person looking at an avalon should hop over to a CTS. You do realize there are target markets here, and not everyone wants a cTS.

the new avalon is more american than most american brands, and will do well as any toyota does. There are more things than horsepower and torque. Gearheads bash japs because they are under powered, now you have a car with more innovation and safety, better build quality and standards. And now horsepower to boot.

And yet..... they will still find something to complain. the day GM becomes as good and efficient as Toyota or Nissan, we will have something to complain about.... but give credit where credit is due. If this car had a GM logo on the front everyone would be raving, including Al, but because it is a toyota, it is the equivalent to satan.

Whats really messed up is people who complain about not buying imports, as we said before... Nissan and Toyota are more AMERICAN than GM. And soon so will Hyundai etc. So while GM is sending engines to be built in China, Nissan and Toyota are building their "imports" in the good ol' us of a, with american labor.

90 Z28SS:

Sorry this is off topic but your trans am looks SICK! :eek: :bow:

TONY

Thanks man :)

the new avalon is more american than most american brands, and will do well as any toyota does. There are more things than horsepower and torque. Gearheads bash japs because they are under powered, now you have a car with more innovation and safety, better build quality and standards. And now horsepower to boot.

And yet..... they will still find something to complain. the day GM becomes as good and efficient as Toyota or Nissan, we will have something to complain about.... but give credit where credit is due. If this car had a GM logo on the front everyone would be raving, including Al, but because it is a toyota, it is the equivalent to satan.

If it was GM people on this forum would still complain, go look at any GP or bonnie GXP thread. If you haven’t noticed a pattern on this site it is this. Any thing FWD is inferior to its RWD competition. Notice how respected the CTS, Solstice, and 300 are.

3.5L and 280 HP in a Toyota? Not bad. GM appears to lead the market with V8s (LT1/LS1/LS6/LS2/LS7) but its V6 lineup is only playing catch up, if even.
AHHHH!!!! RUn! Save yourself!!! Are you insane? You can't tell these people that GM's V6's are behind the game or they'll kill you! Seriously! I was almost flamed right off of GMI for suggesting this a few months ago.
It will be interesting to see if that car will get that good of gas mileage. My mom has a 2000 Avalon and gets 24MPG in town and 28MPG on the highway. Although hers feels like a sled, but I guess that's the tradeoff for the great MPG. .
24/28 MPG is HARDLY "great" :blah: Its better than average...but not great.

And yes, GM should be scared. Not of the car, but of that engine. I can almost gaurantee that this engine will be connected to a hybrid system soon after introduction. When it is you'll have a car with 400HP that can get north of 40 MPG in the city. Yes GM, that just doubled your current average of 200HP and 20MPG

Whats really messed up is people who complain about not buying imports, as we said before... Nissan and Toyota are more AMERICAN than GM. And soon so will Hyundai etc.

That might sound good on paper, but it's not true. Assembly labour is not a huge component of a car's cost. For example Nissan takes about 20 hours to assemble a Sentra at Smyrna. 20hrs * 50/hr is only $1000. Even adding in support staff and white collar jobs, it's not much. Plus many parts are primarily made overseas even if they manage to detour through a North American plant for some final finishing and get a "Made in USA" stamp installed.

But the biggest reason Toyota is an import is that all the valuable parts of the car biz are still overseas. That includes the engineering capabilities, the upper management, and the shareholders who invest money and earn the profits. Assembly can take place anywhere in the world and not have an appreciable impact on the car's quality. As long as all the highly paid and highly skilled jobs remain in Japan, and the profits flow back to there, Toyota is an import.

That might sound good on paper, but it's not true. Assembly labour is not a huge component of a car's cost. For example Nissan takes about 20 hours to assemble a Sentra at Smyrna. 20hrs * 50/hr is only $1000. Even adding in support staff and white collar jobs, it's not much. Plus many parts are primarily made overseas even if they manage to detour through a North American plant for some final finishing and get a "Made in USA" stamp installed.

But the biggest reason Toyota is an import is that all the valuable parts of the car biz are still overseas. That includes the engineering capabilities, the upper management, and the shareholders who invest money and earn the profits. Assembly can take place anywhere in the world and not have an appreciable impact on the car's quality. As long as all the highly paid and highly skilled jobs remain in Japan, and the profits flow back to there, Toyota is an import.

1. As a car buyer, I could care less about executives and board members. Besides, Japanese and German execs have far lower salaries than their American counterparts. How about outsourcing management instead of labor?:lol:

2. Is a Nissan Titan, assembled in Mississipi by "scabs," less "American" than the Chrysler 300 built by CAW members in Ontario? How American is a Mexican-built Tahoe or Suburban?