305 build up.

hey guys i gotta 86 camaro sport coupe its V6 right now i got alls the parts to convert to a V8

i gotta 305 its got very low miles my parnets got from new

i'm gonna leave the bottem end stock
i am using stock 305 heads 58cc there ported and polished 550 lift comp cam springs nice valve job and some other thing

the cam i picked out is 262/280, Lift .462/.480 Lobe Separation 113
new edelbrock performer
holley 650 Double pump mech sec.
and i gotta holley blue pump with nitrous power shot 125 shot
msd 6al box
msd timing retard
msd blaster 2 coil

350 turbo tranny stage 2 shift improver kit
373 gears

how do yous guys this this will run? i know its a 305 but its just a weekend car the motors almost done and i gotta 383 on the way toward the end of this coming summer so..

Don't expect it to be a screamer, but it should get out of it's own way nicely....

- Justin

itll run pretty good,for a 305.

but its not gonna run 12's...ull need to put alot of stickers on it to go that fast :D

Bull **** it wont run 12's. I had a 305 in my car just like what he is going to install with a smaller cam (210/215 @.050 / .452.470 lift) that ran a best of 12.56 @109 on a 100 shot. Look just set the car up with 15 initial timing, and run a ratio of about 3 or 4 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of unleded racing fuel on the spray. You will probably run at least a low 13 high 12 when you get it tuned out.

James @ F-Rated Performance

itll run pretty good,for a 305.

but its not gonna run 12's...ull need to put alot of stickers on it to go that fast :D

That's true. I worked at making my 305 fast but never could quite get it. My old friend got an '89 305 Bird too and put a few stickers on it. Blew me off the road!!! :p

Bull **** it wont run 12's. I had a 305 in my car just like what he is going to install with a smaller cam (210/215 @.050 / .452.470 lift) that ran a best of 12.56 @109 on a 100 shot. Look just set the car up with 15 initial timing, and run a ratio of about 3 or 4 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of unleded racing fuel on the spray. You will probably run at least a low 13 high 12 when you get it tuned out.

James @ F-Rated Performance

wth kinda hears and tranny were u runnin?

if the intake he wrote down is only a Performer like her said,that intake runs out at what,5000 or 5500 RPM's?

he might see mid,maybe low 13's on the juice,but unless hes a got a stall and slicks,i dont see 12's.

but,ive been wrong before...we'll see

EDIT : what kind of headers/exhaust are u running?

I used to have a link to a car craft website where they built up an LG4 like in my car... 305 went 325 hp and 317 ft lb on the dyno!! i remember they ran long tubes, xtreme energy comp cam, super victor intake, and vortec L31 heads... :) one of these days im gonna have the same setup!!

Don't dare come around here saying you are building up a 305. You just dont do it man.



Seriously, stop bashing the people with 305's already. Just because you have a nice built up 350 or bigger doesn't make you God. Yes, I have a 305, and yes, I will be building it up to achieve a 13 second car, but that's all the more I need, and probably all this guy needs. Not everone wants to make a wannabe NHRA car outta their Camaro. Better yet, I'll get a 454 and tell all you 305 bashers to "stop wasting" your money on such a wussy engine. After all, the more cubic inches you have, the better, right?

Check out these info sites:
343HP 305ci Buildup on the HiOutput.com web site.
400HP 305ci Buildup on the HiOutput.com web site.

when we go to the strip i'll be using Et streets and its a 2400 stall looking to go to a 3k but only reasion i'm using it because my mom gave me the 305 and 350 turbo for my b-day so i wonna use it so i am gonna mod it a alittle..

No replacment for displacment!!! :bow:

Thats how i look at it, But I do have a modded 305 in my 85 that`ll probly BLOW away my 350 in my 81 :eek: My 305 has a performer intake a 272 h10 cam and 1.94 305 heads, it moves really good, but, I WANT MORE, so I`m doing my 350 as my mild engine in my 81 goin for 300hp and for my wild engine I`m goin with my 383 thats almost done and will replace my 305 in the 85 :D

Don't dare come around here saying you are building up a 305. You just dont do it man.



Seriously, stop bashing the people with 305's already. Just because you have a nice built up 350 or bigger doesn't make you God. Yes, I have a 305, and yes, I will be building it up to achieve a 13 second car, but that's all the more I need, and probably all this guy needs. Not everone wants to make a wannabe NHRA car outta their Camaro. Better yet, I'll get a 454 and tell all you 305 bashers to "stop wasting" your money on such a wussy engine. After all, the more cubic inches you have, the better, right?

ummm,W-T-F ??
i dont see any 305 bashing u f'in moron.
maybe if u pulled ur head outta ur @$$ u would see there isnt as well.

Can you guys behave? I'll have to shut this down if it gets any worse. Thanks.

S.

wth kinda hears and tranny were u runnin?

if the intake he wrote down is only a Performer like her said,that intake runs out at what,5000 or 5500 RPM's?

he might see mid,maybe low 13's on the juice,but unless hes a got a stall and slicks,i dont see 12's.

but,ive been wrong before...we'll see

EDIT : what kind of headers/exhaust are u running?

V6 T-5 trany 2.95 first gear launch at 3500 RPM
210/215 @.050-.452/.470 lift, ported TBI swirlport heads milled .030"(these heads suck even ported but they were all I had), stock 150,000 mile bottom end, performer intake, NOS superpower shot (100HP shot), 750 DP carb W/proform main body, hooker 1 5/8" shorties, 2 1/2" coustom y-pipe no cats, 3" american thunder cat back, 3.73 gears.
the car now has a 11.5-1 vortec headed 350 that ran 12.50's the first time out , no tuning, no bottle. "needs a bigger cam" has a 230 @ .050 .480 lift single patern. if anyone has a Hyd. roller up to a .570 lift let me know.

Hey Rice Killer, I dont know how well you pay attention yourself around here, but bashing goes on all the time with people who want to build up 305's. Look around for some of these threads and you will see what I mean. It's obvious some people in this thread are already indirectly bashing the 305.

Hey Rice Killer, I dont know how well you pay attention yourself around here, but bashing goes on all the time with people who want to build up 305's. Look around for some of these threads and you will see what I mean. It's obvious some people in this thread are already indirectly bashing the 305.

im well aware that most people bash them,ive been paying attention. i was talkin about 305 bashing in THIS thread,i know it goes on in others.

Hey Jon.. nice to finally see YOU here again! I thought you forgot about us :( But you DIDN'T.. so that is good :cool:

BTW.. this focker jumped me the other day.. I will tell you in an IM sometime :mad:

That's interesting Rice Killer. I could be mistaking but aren't you the one that said it would need alot of stickers in this very thread? I know you may have just been trying to be funny, but it's still a put down.

i might sit and bash that 9sec 305 powered camaro

i might sit and bash that 9sec 305 powered camaro

:confused: 9 sec. camaro??????

you guys are seriously making me want to try to build up a 305 just to see how much hp i can get out of it, mebbe that'll be my next project after the 383 build up

^ Yup.. that is why I am doing it. Very basic bolt-on 305... 300 horse, and 350 lbs is my estimation. And that is thru STOCK HEADS..

That's interesting Rice Killer. I could be mistaking but aren't you the one that said it would need alot of stickers in this very thread? I know you may have just been trying to be funny, but it's still a put down.

i did say that,and i did say that as a JOKE. almost everyone around here can make jokes about slappin stickers on stuff to make it fast,but i guess i cant say that about some1 building a 305 and it still be takin as a joke :rolleyes:

i did say that,and i did say that as a JOKE. almost everyone around here can make jokes about slappin stickers on stuff to make it fast,but i guess i cant say that about some1 building a 305 and it still be takin as a joke :rolleyes:


You're right, you can't. Now go stand in the corner. :p

^ Yup.. that is why I am doing it. Very basic bolt-on 305... 300 horse, and 350 lbs is my estimation. And that is thru STOCK HEADS..

I know this is old, but I wanted to comment on the above statement.

Hmm... 300 HP through the stock heads? I don't see it happening.

Most people with 416 and 081 castings with bigger valves and a good port/polish job (along with other extensive mods) are just barely breaking into the 250-275HP range. I'm purposely not going TBI heads because I think it's pretty obvious there is NO CHANCE of 300HP through those peices of junk.

Anywho, 300 HP sounds like an awfully lofty goal to set with your engine and heads. Even at the crank that sounds pretty optimistic.

Don't take this the wrong way; I'm not trying to insult you or your tuning abilities. The idea just sounds far-fetched is all.

^ Not TBI.. it's carbureted. But ya, a lot of people seem it is very far-fetched, which is why I try to not mention the power levels until I get it dyno'd.

bottom line..there is no best engine or worse engine,,they all have flaws and pluses to them,and even if you cant get a 305 to run 11s or 12s so what...i dont think anyone is here to make a living of drag racing a 12 second car...so you race in a lower bracket..bfd..also you may not be the fastest on the street but you know what ,youll never be..small or big block cause theres always someone faster than u...so if he wants to build the 305 let him and let him enjoy it..this is about a movement or a group of guys who are partial to the z28s period..305 or not...so lets all get along and help the guy out if thats whats hes doing

i dont underdstand people who say theres no replacement for displacement, and dont like chevy 305's because of the existence of a 350

somethings i'd like to point out
fords small block can produce impressive numbers from 302 cubic inches, 3 cub's smaller than chevy's 305, and we have to go to 350 cubes to keep up

not only that but an ls1 motor that produces somewhere in the neighborhood of 330 horsepower is 346 cubes 4 smaller than the standard 350 (of course aluminum and compression is this motor's friend)

when i hear the arguement that here is no replacement for displacement i think of this as an argument to justify v8's instead of low boost, turbocharged 4 bangers

i dont see this arguement as a reason for people with 350's and 305's to argue

basically, what i'm trying to say is

can't we all just.. get along?

It's easy to see why people with 350s dislike 305s. Anything that can be done with a 305 can be done to a 350 and the 350 will always have more performance. Generally, 350 parts (as in pistons, cranks, ect.) are cheaper than their 305 counterparts as well. When the cost difference between a 305 and a 350 is about $50 for the block itself, it really doesn't add up to build the 305 instead of the 350 if you are looking strictly for the most power.

If you're partial to a 305, I have no problem with that either.

And about the point made about the Ford 302 and how it's so much better than the 305. The 302 had a LOT better breathing ability than the 305. It's relatively short stroke and big bore and valves--in addition to a superior intake tract--made it much eaiser to breathe at high RPMs than the 305 (long stroke/small bore & valves). Not to mention the 302 is most commonly found in Mustangs, which were lighter than similarly equipped F-bodies.

im building up my 305 too, except not with nitrous right away..

eventually im going to buy a nice bodied hard top camaro and start a project, a twin turbo 305 just to prove to everyone else that 305s can compete with the best of them if they are given the right oppertunities... that and 305s are extremely cheap, heh..

Why dump all that money into the 305 (and I know it will be a lot of dough) when you can put a 350 in there for $50 more and make 15% more HP?

:confused:

EDIT: Decided to expand a bit further on that idea. Although I am not trying to discourage you from fabbing up a twin turbo system for your engine, I'm sure it will be a very long and expensive journey for you... if it ever happens at all.

That said, I'm sure with all that money and time being spent, you are going to want to get the most out of it all. Obviously, a twin turbo'ed engine is going waaay beyond the realms of simple bolt-ons like headers, intakes, cat-backs, stalls, ect. That is the kind of stuff that will transfer over to a larger engine when the time comes. What you're talking about doing deals with modifying and upgrading the engine internals as well as doing all that "simple" stuff. Pistons, crank, rods... the whole 9 yards. When you get to that point, it's time to yank the 305 and drop something better in.

The point that I'm trying to make here is that a 350 is essentially just a replacement for a 305. There's nothing that you will need to do to accomodate for a 350 when replacing a 305... it'll pretty much just drop right in where the old 305 was. And for $50 more (it may end up actually costing you LESS after you bought parts for the 305 which are somewhat more expensive than 350 parts; e.g. pistons) you will recieve 15% more power than you would with the 305.

Where did I get $50 from? Well, you can grab any decent 350 core from a junkyard or classifieds for about $50--give or take, depending on where you buy it from. Everything else you are going to have to fab up or buy new with either engine. The crucial difference is the fact that the 350 will always, ALWAYS make more power (mod for mod, of course) than the 305. And when you're talking about lots of time and money involved in this project, why wouldn't you want to get the most power out of it that you can? For the sake of being able to say "I've got a fast 305"? Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Now there's certainly nothing wrong with making the most out of what you have. There's nothing wrong with making a 305 faster, either. However, I believe that you are going to be sorely disappointed when people with larger engines and similar mods start beating you with less money put into their projects.

Someone once told me there's a two step process to making high HP with a 305:
1. Throw away 305
2. Replace with larger engine

Good luck with whatever you do man. :D

First of all, in turbo or blown apps. smaller engines make more power per inch than larger engines. Case in point, there is a guy in NHRA running mid to low 7's in a mustang with a blown 289. As for the nonbelief of a 305 making 300HP with TBI heads, I stated befor that I ported the dog crap out of them. I also stated that the car ran 12.56 @ 109.25 at 3305 Lbs. with me in it on a 100 shot. Just go to wheelspin.net and punch the specs. to get the RWHP from there just multiply that by 1.15 to get the crank HP. You should come up with about 400 HP. If you still don't beleive oh well, I'm done on this. :cz28:

First of all, in turbo or blown apps. smaller engines make more power per inch than larger engines. Case in point, there is a guy in NHRA running mid to low 7's in a mustang with a blown 289. As for the nonbelief of a 305 making 300HP with TBI heads, I stated befor that I ported the dog crap out of them. I also stated that the car ran 12.56 @ 109.25 at 3305 Lbs. with me in it on a 100 shot. Just go to wheelspin.net and punch the specs. to get the RWHP from there just multiply that by 1.15 to get the crank HP. You should come up with about 400 HP. If you still don't beleive oh well, I'm done on this. :cz28:

First of all, I was never referring to you in any instance.

As for the power adder making more power per inch than larger engines, so what? The 305 will STILL be limited in power by it's displacement and another engine with equal mods done to it will always make more power.

I never said TBI heads couldn't be made to flow, I said STOCK heads will probably never see 300HP (in my mind, stock means no work done to them at all, but I suppose "stock" is a subjective word).

:D

I'll do some 305 bashing, hate to see this thread miss it, it is much needed. 305's are JUNK. There, take your inferiorty complex and get mad at me. It is not the displacement that hurts the 305, IT IS THE BORE. Every time I hear someone say the 305 isn't bad becasue the 302 Ford is a good engine I roll my eyes at their ignorance. The 302 has a 4" bore, the same as a 350 Chevy. It also has a supeior intake and head design. Now if you want to prove something with low cubic inches build a 302 Chevy, or a 327, anything that you can push air through.

Martin

Why was the Chevy 302 so kickass?? Did it have a short stroke with a large 4" bore, or no?
Which tends to be better; Chevy 302 or Ford 302? Just wondering..

yes it had 4" bore and short stroke. I believe it had the same stroke as a 283. Give me a Chevy 302 and dollar for dollar If spent right it will run circles around the ford

Now I didn't post on this thread to bash or incite bashing. The man just asked for help and advice, and that is what I gave along with the results of the combination I had in my car when I first started out. That said, I am DONE with this matter and I am sorry to be part of a site who's other members exibit this kind of rude, childish behavior.

Personally I don't see any bashing, although there are some overstatements.

The 4" bore/short stroke combo is so sacred that the LS1 continued it, right? WRONG! However, its bore is still larger than the 305, and larger than a 305 can be bored to. The 305 bore doesn't keep the engine from developing any power, it keeps it from going beyond a certain point. 300 gross crankshaft HP is very doable, and mine has demonstrated in the range of 245 rear wheel HP using accepted conversion formulas from dragstrip data (never had it on a "real" dyno).

Of course, the $50 350 is a myth as well. With a free 350 shortblock and using parts from my 305, I was looking at $800 to get one together with decent parts before that deal fell through. As it is, I've got a slightly better core (ZZ2 or 3 shortblock) that, with a combination of rebuild, upgrade, and reusing 305 parts is still going to run me over $1200 to get running - albeit with fairly "good" parts. However, I expect the gain to be well over the 50 cubic inch increase ratio - meaning rather than a 285 RWHP output, I expect more like 300. Time will tell.

If you're starting with a 1986 LG4, the best power for money ratio will be obtained by pumping up the 305 - NOT putting in a 350. I know this because - well, because I've been (or at least will be going) both places.

Thanx for the explanation on the Chevy 302.. but i still dont know why the Chevy is better than the ford.

five7kid.. thanx for the inspiriation ;)

Its not, but don't tell anyone, they might get mad.

Martin

grow up,who cares really,if he wants to build a 305 let him,u guys aint paying the bill....end of tread..period..move on

Well after he gets done building a 305 and is dissapointed with what he has and decides to go with a different engine (probably a 350). Now he can say "Why didn't I listen to everyone!" instead of "I wish someone would of told me what sh!tboxes 305's are!"

Martin

When you're starting with a V6, the 305 is going to be a real kick in the pants. Do the normal SBC things, and the 305 will more than hold its own. It won't be as fast as a 350, but it will be quicker than 75% of what's on the road.

He has the 305, he doesn't have a 350. As long as the 305 isn't a 1.72" intake valve or swirl port version, it will respond well.

85_305, in my 1st response made a false assumption - that you have a 3rd gen f-body LG4. You just said "305", and that could be a lot of things. You have to make sure what this 305 is before you do anything to it, and if you have to rebuild the lower end - don't bother, get a 350 to build. Plus, you've got a bunch of V6 to V8 issues to address, before you can even begin to think about "performance".

Ya, my Z came with the LG4.. so I am not converting from v6 to v8 (i think that is what you were trying to say) But anyways, you prolly know that my car has a 4bbl.. not TBI.. and it has regular cast iron heads, not that swirl-port bull crap.

eh, my little 305 does enough to take of the average ricer and thats all that matters to me. i know that my 305 is the lowest output v8 offered in my car/year and i'm okay with that, i can still burnout so i guess it can't be that bad.

Ya, my Z came with the LG4.. so I am not converting from v6 to v8 (i think that is what you were trying to say) But anyways, you prolly know that my car has a 4bbl.. not TBI.. and it has regular cast iron heads, not that swirl-port bull crap.
The thread originator has a V6 car.

LG4, especially '85-'87, is a good base for bolt-ons.

The thread originator has a V6 car.

LG4, especially '85-'87, is a good base for bolt-ons.


Oh, my bad. Sorry about the confusion. But I think it will be a good base for me. Hell.. I am 17, so I am not looking for 400 hp.. *just 300* ;)