305 tpi went 13.55 today!!

Yep, today at lapeer dragway I turned a 13.55 @100 in a 305 tpi with headers and nitto drag radials (1.90 60 ft). Never touched an internal yet, but the blower will come this winter. Ill try and have a friend scan the timeslip this week.

that is awesome man...you got a T56 hey!!! i can't wait till i get one backed with a 350, boy am i gonna have fun!!!!

Mid 13s is moving for an NA 305, especially when the motor is claimed to be untouched. What have you done to the intake, suspension, etc?

i dont see how a stock internal 305 could possibly run a 13.5,full ex.4.10s and sticky tires or perhaps a bottle!! :no:

I'd like to know. If you tell me, I will be going after a junkyard tpi motor instead of my carbed 305.

With a 100mph trap speed I want to know whats up with that 305? What bolt-ons does it have?

If it was originally a manual car then it has the L98 cam in that 305, so thats good for a mid to high 14 right there. Slicks will probably drop another 3/10ths off that time at the least. With full bolt-ons, and a completely ported intake I can see a 100mph trap speed.

How close are you to sea level?

what year t56?

a couple years came with some pretty steep 1st gears, which could really be adventageous for launching that thing.

i say it's very possible.

there is a guy i use to read about adris shultz or something who managed mid 13s on a 305tpi and original 5spd.

Vid would be better than a slip.
My 88 Formula which was originally an Auto, now a T5 with 3.73 gears only gets a 92mph trap speed.

There is only 1 year with a steep 1st gear, that is a 93 since that year you could get either 2.73 or 3.28 rear gears with a T56. 94+ got 3.42 gears stock on all T56 cars.

after many years of experience with tpi cars,seen many things happen but i would really have to see this car run cause there is no way a (stock)305 is gonna run 13.n e thang without a ton of gear and full exhaust or nitrous,the mph is not there for nitrous so whats really goin on??????????????? :bs:

Alright, let's see here. Since his car is G92, IF he had a 5 speed originally, then he did get the bigger cam and the 3.73 gears out back. If it was an auto, I believe they only got 3.42 or 3.23. Now he has to of had at least full exhuast, aftermarket runners, and a lot of intake mods to reach a speed of 100 in the 1/4. I highly doubt just swaping over to a t56 with drags will get that kind of result without some other things helping it out. So what's this car got done to it? Just remember guys, anything is possible, this is just hard to believe if he is stock with only the mods he has listed in his sig. :confused:

May be he had a very strong tailwind and was running down a very steep track or a very short one . So in my opinion NO WAY for a stock 305 TPI with that time. ;)

That would be very impressive to run a 13.55 with a bone stock 305. I'd like to know how much the car weighed and what the DA was. I had a stock '85 TPI 305 in my Cutlass for a couple of years. It was the hyd flat tappet cam. It would run fairly consistent 14.9s bone stock in a 3650 lb car w/ driver and a 4L60E/3.23 gear. It ran a best of 14.88 just shy of 90mph. That was with a 1.90 sixty foot.
Kevin

Yep, today at lapeer dragway I turned a 13.55 @100 in a 305 tpi with headers and nitto drag radials (1.90 60 ft). Never touched an internal yet, but the blower will come this winter. Ill try and have a friend scan the timeslip this week.

ummm,does it have any interior?

Clocks could have been off.

Cold air-cold fuel-good track-......I know he had two of these things at least but damn that`s hard to believe without seeing it! I gotta friend with a 92 5.7 with headers and free mods with BFG dr`s and his best at ubly is 13.90 with a 1.8 sixty...Oh yea 2500 stall w/ 3.42 and a A-4 What`s up with that little wheezer? :confused:

Yea, I can elab a little more on the setup for those of you who asked. Got some basic things like alum water pump, adjust fuel pres reg set at 47 psi. 170 deg thermostat, power pullies, stage 2 chip, headers, ypipe, 3 inch cat back, I ported the runners and plenum myself, ....but the launch is where the time comes in. I have nitto drag radials set at 15psi, tubular control arms, panhard rod, and poly bushings. Basically do a 8 sec burn out and launch at 4k. It hooked up for a 1.90 60 ft for the 13.5, but that was the best launch. The t56 has a 2.66 first gear, and my rear end is still the stock australian 3.45. Basically my launch and torque get me the time, and the best trap of 101 is just from having cold air and a healthy running 305. B&m ripper shifter is the best thing i ever did, aside the spec stage 3 clutch. my friend might have that run on tape, but i know the 13.6, and 13.7s were on tape. Either way, the 305 really loses its gas in the highend, and i still hate this motor compared to the ls1. But my best trap of 101 is high when i look at other 305s...but then i see these monkeys driving horrible 2.3 60 ft times and all. im gonna be at lapeer 3 more times this year if any locals wanna meet.

Oh yea, i forgot for the one guy....full interior. Its a hard top, not a heavy ttop car, with spohn sfcs, and no power seat, no spare tire. Only options i have are power wind, power lcks, ac. I want to go weigh it at one of those truck stations.....think they will let me? Im guessing about 3350 or so.

What kind of 60 fts do you guys get with bf drags??? can i improve my 1.90 60 ft with a pair of them???

Oh yea, i forgot for the one guy....full interior. Its a hard top, not a heavy ttop car, with spohn sfcs, and no power seat, no spare tire. Only options i have are power wind, power lcks, ac. I want to go weigh it at one of those truck stations.....think they will let me? Im guessing about 3350 or so.

What kind of 60 fts do you guys get with bf drags??? can i improve my 1.90 60 ft with a pair of them???

awsome,nice times for a 305.

What with what this guy listed, for sure its BS......No 305 TPI with those so called Mods is that fast. ;)

Nice work!

here is an old site (http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~askulte/htmls/performance.html) with a TPI car with minor bolt ons running mid 13's

his site was the first performance site i found when i got my 87 IROC back in 97.

he got some very impressive times...stock internals

so it is VERY possible...lots of torque and good traction

very good but the problem here is askulte has done great tuning,hedders etc.did you notice he also still uses the t5 tranny,which is waaayy lighter than the t56 and also uses a steeper 1st gear than the t56 its totally possible that the car ran the time claimed but to be that much faster than askultes, not really feelin that one,i am not tryin to be a" richard cranium" but i dont think the clocks were correct for his run,i mean a friend of mine with a marauder(fords attempt to copy an impala)ran back to back 15.70 then all of a sudden he pops off a 14.2(no mods)4 days old!it looked just as slow as the other passes :p sorry rob!

Hey, my RS runs 111-112mph in the 1/4 with just bolt ons! Of course it isn't an LO3:)

I get a lot of bs flags too but I have come to expect it. You should too with a car that runs like that. If everything is as you say it is, good job on the times. It is nice to see these cars run like they should.

actually...other than the hypertech chip...he didn't do any tuning on the car for those runs.

he did tuning after the turbo.

and yea the t5 is lighter, but that isn't gonna make THAT much difference. he also had a 9speaker sound system!!

Still, that time is a little hard to swallow. GMHTP has been doing a buildup on a 89 Formula G92 good cammed 305 like yours (code named Blue Thunder), with the factory 5 speed and 3.45 gears. They did nearly identical mods, runners and ported plenum, pullies, headers and full 3" exhaust, among other minor stuff. They needed slicks and ideal conditions at a very good track with a good driver to just barely hit 13s. They weren't running over 100mph though, and all testing done near sea level.

If the times are legit, definately get videos! You'd be a legend amongst the 305 crowd :lol: Many people dog the 305, and those that do try to mod and go fast usually fail. Personally, I'd love to see a little 305 TPI running mid 13s on bolt-ons!

From what I gather, he had these mods when he ran a 13.5 @ 103
Items in Red are the main mods.
* SPD Ram Air
* 52mm Throttle Body
* Portmatched TB, Plenum, Runners, and Manifold
* K&N Airfilters
* TPIS Airfoil
* Removed MAF screens and Fins

Engine

* Hypertech Thermomaster Chip
* 160 Degree Thermostat
* Accel 300+ Ignition System and coil
* SpiroPro 8mm wires
* Rapidfire Plugs
* SPD centerbolt valve cover plug wire holders
* Crane Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator set to 42 psi
* !A.I.R.
* !EGR
* Mobil 1 Oil
* Dexcool Coolant

Exhaust

* SLP Tri-Y 1 5/8" stainless steel header - Jethot coated in/out
* Stage 8 header bolts
* PFP highflow cat
* SLP 3" stainless steel cat back exhaust
* Polished Tips

Suspension/Driving Fun

* 17" ROH ZS Wheels - 8.5" front and 9.5" rear with Dunlop SP 8000 tires - 245 45R17 front and 275 40R17 rear
* 16x9.5" Vette wheels with 265 45R16 Kumho race tires
* Koni Red Hydraulic Struts and Gas Shocks
* Global West Spherical End Trailing Arms and Panhard Rod
* Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
* Energy Suspension Polyurethane swaybar, endlink, tranny, and torque arm bushings
* Hurst Shifter
* Nardi Shift knob
* Schroth Street Legal Four Point ASM Harness

Is he making between 250/275 RWHP to make that time with those Mods???
I think NOT.

I did get my 86 Trans Am to trap 99mph, but that was with a cam, 52mm TB, headers, full 3" exhaust. Car was an LG4 that I converted to an Speed Density TPI with the 87 TPI heads and stock TPI intake, runners, and plenum.
If the 60' wasn't so bad, I probably would have hit a 13.5-13.7.
My 305 died before I could get it back to the track.
http://www.transamws6.com/pics/transam/timeslip14.jpg

Oh yea, i forgot for the one guy....full interior. Its a hard top, not a heavy ttop car, with spohn sfcs, and no power seat, no spare tire. Only options i have are power wind, power lcks, ac. I want to go weigh it at one of those truck stations.....think they will let me? Im guessing about 3350 or so.

What kind of 60 fts do you guys get with bf drags??? can i improve my 1.90 60 ft with a pair of them???

13.5 On a full interior???, I think not. 3350???? Try over 4000 with you in it, My old 305 iroc ran a 13.3 on M & H slicks, headers, big gears, no interior and a BIG shot of juice. Your gonna have to try again..

Transxtreme, our cars do NOT weigh that much.

My 91 with the 305/auto, full interior, speakers in hatch, full tank of gas and me in it weighed 3660.

Transxtreme, our cars do NOT weigh that much.

My 91 with the 305/auto, full interior, speakers in hatch, full tank of gas and me in it weighed 3660.

And you call yourself "Slim"..... ;) 3660# more like "heavy". :eek:

At 6'2", I am 180lbs. Pretty damn slim imo.

The car though is a pig, I know. I was disappointed too. I think it is a little lighter now though.

My 89 GTA shipped from the factory at 3,389lbs. Thats with about 3 gallons of gas in it. Add the rest of the tank, another 12 gallons and you get 3,461lbs.

Add 175lbs of me and you get 3,636lbs. Yes, they are heavy, but not that heavy! 4th gens weigh more than the thirdgen, and they have the advantage of aluminum heads, or aluminum motor!

And 4th gens have the advantage of fiberglass body parts.Imagine if they were made out of steel like the 3rd gens.They would have definitely been pigs :D

Where do some people get their info? My car is nowhere near that weight, it has no ttop, no power seat or mirrors, no spare, and an aluminum LS1 driveshaft. I know it weighs less than 3500 lbs, and its well under. I only run at the track with about 3 gal of gas. I will be going to the track again next weekend with bf drags and a video camera hoping for my 13.49 if the weather works with me. How should i tape it for you nonbelievers. I guess ill show the car upclose, the original tpi motor..then show the runs?? No bs here, so i have nothing to hide. Then im sure some dude that has a sucky 15 sec 305 with an auto, street tires, and a 2.73 rear end will want me to tear my motor down in front of the camera too, then hell believe. Anyone want to watch ill be a lapeer dragway in lapeer michigan next weekend.

Maybe you are mistaken that your motor is a 305, maybe its a 350.... :eek: no j/k good times man, if ?I ever bought a third gen it would be a 305 5spd car. Good luck at the track next time.

The only thing we question is that you state the motor is bone stock with only headers and trapping 100mph.
It's not really rocket science, but simple math, if you have X amount of HP and your car weighs x amount of pounds, then it will only go as fast as the HP allows.
Your 305 stock should have either 220 or 195hp depending on the original tranny that it came with. M5 had 220 and A4 had 195.

And I believe that the T56 ends up weighing more than a 700R4, so if you had a T5 your car weighs more with the T56.

Also, having a lower 60' time usually gives you a lower trap speed.
Look at your slips and you may notice that the ones with a higher 60' have a higher mph.

The only thing we question is that you state the motor is bone stock with only headers and trapping 100mph.
It's not really rocket science, but simple math, if you have X amount of HP and your car weighs x amount of pounds, then it will only go as fast as the HP allows.


Out of curiousity, how much hp do you think my car makes? Bolt on LT1/m6 in my 91 RS. Weighed 3660 with me in it with the 305/auto. No carpet but still has front and back leather seats. I trap 112 on motor. Again that is only bolt ons.

Out of curiousity, how much hp do you think my car makes? Bolt on LT1/m6 in my 91 RS. Weighed 3660 with me in it with the 305/auto. No carpet but still has front and back leather seats. I trap 112 on motor. Again that is only bolt ons.

360 or so at the wheels. Sounds like your car has heads and cam or a 100-125 shot of gas on there. No way a bolt on LT1 should trap that fast. Every bolt on would net you 280-310 at the wheels.

Here is what the HP calculator comes up with for the 305TPI,
Horsepower Results - 1/4 Mile Method

Your Camaro weighs about 3500 pounds and can complete a 1/4 mile in about 13.55 seconds. That means that you've got about 278.06 HP at the wheels, and about 361.48 HP at the flywheel.

How could you possibly say that a LT1 running 13.02 has heads and cam, and has 390-410 rwhp?!?! I guess that means my 14.124 (bone stock btw) A4 LT1 has like... 270rwhp? Thats interesting I think, considering it won't happen. Cars with 360rwhp can run low 12's. How do you figure all of this? Thats just ridiculous, figuring by calculators is stupid, use real life occurances.

How could you possibly say that a LT1 running 13.02 has heads and cam, and has 390-410 rwhp?!?! I guess that means my 14.124 (bone stock btw) A4 LT1 has like... 270rwhp? Thats interesting I think, considering it won't happen. Cars with 360rwhp can run low 12's. How do you figure all of this? Thats just ridiculous, figuring by calculators is stupid, use real life occurances.

I am going by the trap speed, not the ET. Trap speed is an indicator of how much HP the car has, ET shows how good you launch AND the potential of the car.
I bet your A4 LT1 is trapping around 98-102 mph too, isn't it?

100.67 MPH with a 2.297 60ft, ran a 14.124, not a single modification on anything at all. The problem with calculating trap speed to horsepower, is a lot of things effect trap speed, such as the launch (traction). The best way to see the power a car makes would be a dyno, to see how well your car uses that power is the track. Another problem I see with using trap speed to see horsepower is it isnt accurate. I was reading on 3 supras that ran mid 10's with horsepower ranging from 708rwhp to 910 rwhp, all with around the same trap ~140... Trap speed is a good indicator of the power being made, but not overall. I am no expert, but it has been known for LT1's with just bolt-ons run low 13's with traps similar to those. I should be starting my bolt-ons after the season starts in spring, want to max my times on street tires before I begin modifying.

Maybe my recent dyno run on the 02 z ttop, power everything can help too. It put 323hp to the wheels and 312 ft/lbs, and its an auto with 3.23 gears and stock tires and it trapped at 110 mph (12.73 et) before the tuning....it may trap at 111 now??. What are some other guys dyno numbers and how do they relate to your timeslips.

As for the iroc dyno, i havent done it yet, but i did decode the engine block and its a 305 for sure. Known that for 6 yrs anyway...

320rwhp and he trapped 110, perfect example that trap speed is simplya good indicator of power, but things like the area under the curve, as well as torque play factors in trap speed, as well as traction.

Another problem I see with using trap speed to see horsepower is it isnt accurate. I was reading on 3 supras that ran mid 10's with horsepower ranging from 708rwhp to 910 rwhp, all with around the same trap ~140...

Supras are Dyno Queens and shouldn't be used as an example. There is an old saying, "What does a 400hp and 800hp Supra have in Common? 12 sec time slips." They have a hard time getting out of the hole and accelerate like mad at teh 1/8th mile.

Trap speed is a very good indictator of how much HP you are making. I am not talking out my ass, I have many friends that drag race and I socialize, talk tech, BS, etc with them.

You should Dyno your car, I bet it's putting down about 260rwhp.

I plan on dynoing it before I begin modifying it, and if a stock A4 LT1 puts down 260rwhp the LT1 world will be shaken. I don't think even a M6 has pulled that. But we will see. I know that trap speed is a good indicator or power, I said that in both the last two posts, but other things influence trap speed besides max power, like area under the curve... if a car has a peak of 360 rwhp, but its just simply that a peak, with not much of a even power band, a car with a peak of 340rwhp that has a good area under the curve will trap higher as well as get down the track quicker, at least thats how I would see it. Not trying to argue with you, just trying to learn as much as possible, and the easiest way is to show my opinion and listen to more experienced people respond.

-Eric

My old 96 Trans Am M6 with bolt ons and full exhaust put down 280rwhp with 4.10 gears.
My friends 82 Trans Am with 96LT1 M6, bolt ons with full exhaust 3.42's, and Electric Waterpump put down 288rwhp.

I think 250-260 is not out of the question for a bone stock 96-97 LT1 A4.

Well now you have my hopes up lol. ;) I really do hope my car stock does put something like that down. My friend with full exhaust and moroso CAI put down 288.3 rwhp 31x rwtq. Its a 96 as well. No times for him yet, he works too much when the weather is nice here in Ohio, as well as the Thompson not being IMO a great track... prep is weak I think. My plans for the car include full exhaust, CAI, either AI H/C or LE H/C... but I am thinking AI, a 2800 stall torque converter as eventually a new rearend lol and transmission, as they will fall to :death: .

I know my car definately doesn't have 360 at the wheels. I do know it is a stock longblock with no nitrous. Aerodynamics also play a part in trap speed. I can't wait to see what this thing runs when it is tuned. 112 surprised the hell out of me. With 80 extra hp from nitrous, my trap speed was 120 but the a/f ratio was under 11:1, so I was losing a lot of power.

I know my car definately doesn't have 360 at the wheels. I do know it is a stock longblock with no nitrous. Aerodynamics also play a part in trap speed.

Aerodynamics doesn't come into play with those lower speeds in the 1/4 mile.

What are you using to measure your A/F during your runs?

Were you running at a track, on a mustang dyno, or using a G-Tech?

Sure aerodynamics play an important part in times. I wouldn't consider 100 mph low speed. Even bikers wear aerodynamic clothing in races. I doubt they are approaching 100mph.

I got my a/f from a dyno. The a/f was ok on motor but on the juice it went to under 10:1 for a second but stayed pretty much under 11:1 the rest.

Aerodynamics doesn't come into play with those lower speeds in the 1/4 mile.


Right... Stick your hand out the window at 100mph, and then tell us the same. Aerodynamics have been proven to affect highway gas mileage by every auto manufacturer, so why not acceleration at twice highway speeds?

Right... Stick your hand out the window at 100mph, and then tell us the same. Aerodynamics have been proven to affect highway gas mileage by every auto manufacturer, so why not acceleration at twice highway speeds?

We're talking about a bolt on LT1 trapping 112 in the 1/4, which is impossible with a 3660lbs vehicle, doesn't matter how aerodynamic it is. you are not going to gain 8mph in the 1/4 with aerodynamics alone in a camaro. that would mean you are reducing your drag to compensate for the 80hp it takes to gain 8mph in the 1/4.

We're talking about a bolt on LT1 trapping 112 in the 1/4, which is impossible with a 3660lbs vehicle, doesn't matter how aerodynamic it is. you are not going to gain 8mph in the 1/4 with aerodynamics alone in a camaro. that would mean you are reducing your drag to compensate for the 80hp it takes to gain 8mph in the 1/4.

I didn't say my car weighed 3660 now. Who knows what it weighs now? It now has a 350 and a six speed. But it isn't far from it.

I like it when people say impossible:) That way I can prove them wrong. I just mentioned that aerodynamics play a role. I did not say they alone are to thank.

I am not the only person trapping over 110 in a bolt on LT1. Or even 112 for that matter. Do some searches in the LT1 forum and see for yourself.

As far as the original thread is concerned :bow: Check my sig.

6fitz,
What was your setup on that iroc? Seems like our cars are close in power, but my 1.90 60ft was a little better with the drag radials. I would love to trap at 102, but my best was 101.7 in 40 degree weather. So i think until the P1sc goes on, thats it.

I think its possible...
My 88 runs very well for an automatic/and some bolt ons...no times yet..
A car with alot of low-end power launched right can put up good times even if the HP #'s are low...

13.55 is an excellent time and something i think is quite possible given the mods. GMHTP's Blue Thunder went 13.89 with a 2.00 60-foot time. Cut another tenth from that short time and you've got a 13.69.

Our Formula weighs 3530lbs with a quarter tank of gas and me in the seat, and i'm probably about 170 so guywidiroc's weight assesment is probably right on.

That trap speed is tremendous. BT ran a best of 96mph and the computer was seeing 7-10 degrees of knock retard due to the bad crank bearing so with the cold air and no knock, i could certainly see 100mph happen too.

A ProCharger would certainly be cool and i'm all for forced induction, but i would like to see if some heads, cam and a Super Ram could get it into the 12s. Maybe just the cam and intake would do it. Guywidiroc, are you up to the challenge?

TurboSteve

I can't believe I had to come over to the V8 boards to back up my friend with a V8.
Here it is I was there I am always there that car guywidiroc has run in the 13's quite a few times I hae a couple on video I can post them if you need to but the thing that gets me is your supposed to be cool with everyone in the camaro world when you have a camaro. Why would he lie, what would he gain, I just don't understand. I have worked on that car more than any other car I can think of and it has all he says, no internals, no cam, no headwork, and the port and polich was a drunk project and probably hurt the car for all we know.
If you need some 13 sec vids let me know i'll put them together
I'm going back to my board now GROW UP

ps. I dont mean trouble either just thought posting your best time wouldnt be such a bad thing. :bow:

Hi all, first post here.

Not saying I belive the guy 100%, but it may be possible. I've been a 14.35 in my LB9/Auto. Granted, I have more mods than him but people don't believe me either when I tell them that's what I run.

yeah just like cars dont through flames
http://www.michiganmodded.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=132

Is he making between 250/275 RWHP to make that time with those Mods???
I think NOT.

That's my rough calculation using his ET, and weight of 3350lbs.