New aluminum pushrod V10 coming from GM

from GMinsidenews.com (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8247)

Escalade is planned for the V10, This seams like a logical choice for the Silverado SS too.

GM sources said the V-10s are intended for use in such vehicles as the Cadillac Escalade, an SUV, and the Escalade EXT, a sport utility truck with a cargo box at the rear. Those vehicles are available with V-8 engines only, as GM doesn't currently have a V-10 in its product line.

As power options in those vehicles, the big automaker figures the 10-cylinder units will attract more Cadillac buyers and enable the company to increase its share of the luxury truck market. As conceived, the V-10s are overhead-valve (OHV) units based on GM's existing 4.8- to 6.0-liter small-block V-8s.

The V-10 is a separate design from the Cadillac Cien V-12 concept engine introduced last year, a GM source said. That engine was based on the dual-overhead-cam Northstar V-8. The V-10 also is smaller, and considered to be more practical, than the OHV V-16 concept engine introduced early this year by GM in its experimental supercar, the Cadillac Sixteen.

The V-16 is not a viable candidate for production, GM sources said, but the DOHC V-12 is. However, the V-12, which is also all aluminum, is more likely to be used in cars than trucks and is not as close to production as the V-10, one GM source said....more (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8247)

Wow, I didn't see this comming. This is great news. V10 power in the trucks...........I like the sound of that. I wonder what other applications this might have? I guess it could be for the STSv although the ohv might not cut it for people who value the placement of the cams more than output.

Anyone remember the concept LS1 V10? :drool: This is going to be like that but on the LS2 level :droolsmore: I wonder if they might try fitting this into a car down the line....XLR seems to be an appropriate placement.

Why a V10? Is it going to be like Dodges V10, where they just slapped two more cylinders onto their V8?

Escalade-V? or was that getting a V12?

that twin turbo v-10 is looking more real everyday.

This is gunna be GM's heavy duty engine, probably replacing the 8.1 in HD in trucks. GMT900 is being made for the V10
Looks like this is gunna be a truck-only engine, but ya never know. But what else would this be put in?
Big Caddy? With Caddy trying to move up market, why put a OHV "outdated" pushrod engine in there car...but they did it with the Sixteen...
Maybe a big Buick?! That would be awesome.

Im sure this engine has evolved quite a bit since, but this LS based V-10 idea was canned way back when and the 8.1 was chosen instead . Kudos to GM , as this seems to be a pretty awesome engine . Hot Rod ( errr , I think ) did a full feature quite awhile ago about the GM V10 that coulda been in the current gen trucks .

This is gunna be GM's heavy duty engine, probably replacing the 8.1 in HD in trucks. GMT900 is being made for the V10
Looks like this is gunna be a truck-only engine, but ya never know. But what else would this be put in?
Big Caddy? With Caddy trying to move up market, why put a OHV "outdated" pushrod engine in there car...but they did it with the Sixteen...
Maybe a big Buick?! That would be awesome.

My thoughts exactly. Buy why dump the 8.1 v8? Unless i'm wrong, its output was better than the Ford v10, and tq was about similar. Is there some sort of advantage with going with a more cyl engine?

As for the engine itself, i'm with al. I doubt we'll see this in cars, let alone a Cadillac.

My thoughts exactly. Buy why dump the 8.1 v8? Unless i'm wrong, its output was better than the Ford v10, and tq was about similar. Is there some sort of advantage with going with a more cyl engine?

As for the engine itself, i'm with al. I doubt we'll see this in cars, let alone a Cadillac.


Ford V10 is upgraded for this year. 3 valve head, 355hp and slightly more torque then the 8.1L

My thoughts exactly. Buy why dump the 8.1 v8? Unless i'm wrong, its output was better than the Ford v10, and tq was about similar.

Why dump it? It's old and heavy.



Is there some sort of advantage with going with a more cyl engine?


Yep...

You use the same pistons, rods, main bearings, pushrods, rockers, springs, retainers, locks, head bolts, lifters, throttle body etc... and drive the amount of money required to manufacture all of the LSx family of engines down. Then... if you're smart... you take some of that money and roll it right back into engine development to pay for your high performance variants like the SS series.



My only real concern with the engine is this:

I'll bet anyone here lunch that a splayed valve engine like the Rat will out-flow an LSx based head hands down. My hope would be that Powertrain would return to looking at splayed valve designs for future LSx development specifically pertaining to high horsepower applications... unless of course the 3-valve engines are going to become a reality.

I guess if the 3-valve never happens, my ideal development of the LSx family would be:

Splayed valves
5 bolt heads w/ thicker decks
Coil-on-plug ignition
Cam phasing

Those changes right there basically make it a whole new motor.

Given all the advances since the Rat made it's debut roughly 40 years ago, I keep coming back to the idea that if the technology was applied to a Rat we'd have a killer.

Don't get me wrong... the LSx family is the best small block ever...

I just want to see the best Rat ever... it would mix the best of the new with massive displacement and an even better head design than the LSx.

The aluminum versions could enter the market with 210 pounds or more apiece of finished aluminum components, company sources said. The Detroit-based automaker doesn't currently build an engine with that much aluminum.

duuuur. they make all aluminum engines... this ones just bigger. thats why it uses that much aluminum. why the hell is this even in here? if i was a english teacher, id circle this and tell them to cut it out. WTF.

Wow, I didn't see this comming. This is great news. V10 power in the trucks...........I like the sound of that. I wonder what other applications this might have? I guess it could be for the STSv although the ohv might not cut it for people who value the placement of the cams more than output.

Looks like the V10 is for trucks, cars like the STSv and XLRv will get a DOHC Northstar V12 (unless they get a S/C V8).

The V-10 is a separate design from the Cadillac Cien V-12 concept engine introduced last year, a GM source said. That engine was based on the dual-overhead-cam Northstar V-8. The V-10 also is smaller, and considered to be more practical, than the OHV V-16 concept engine introduced early this year by GM in its experimental supercar, the Cadillac Sixteen.

The V-16 is not a viable candidate for production, GM sources said, but the DOHC V-12 is. However, the V-12, which is also all aluminum, is more likely to be used in cars than trucks and is not as close to production as the V-10, one GM source said.

My thoughts exactly. Buy why dump the 8.1 v8? Unless i'm wrong, its output was better than the Ford v10, and tq was about similar. Is there some sort of advantage with going with a more cyl engine?


It becomes more difficult to meet emissions when the cylinders get too big. The fuel at the very edges of the pistons above the rings is a long way away from the plug and it's difficult to make it burn reliably. IIRC, that was the focus of a fair bit of development on the 8.1, and maybe it was only good enough to buy them some time.

...my ideal development of the LSx family would be:

5 bolt heads w/ thicker decks


Why is this? When GM switched from the SBC to the LSx, they went from 5 bolts down to 4. This gave them much more freedom in the cylinder head design to optimize flow. Especially on an OHV engine, I think it would be a step backwards to go back to 5 bolts.

a shame they are going to waste that fine engine by putting it in a truck

Why is this? When GM switched from the SBC to the LSx, they went from 5 bolts down to 4. This gave them much more freedom in the cylinder head design to optimize flow. Especially on an OHV engine, I think it would be a step backwards to go back to 5 bolts.

Saves on blowing head gaskets at really high cylinder pressures...

Like when using nitrous... :D

Nobody ever said it made terrific financial sense, just that I'd like to see them design a modern large displacement motor that way.

American Metal Market reported April 17, 2003

Does this not raise any flags? :confused:

Why is this? When GM switched from the SBC to the LSx, they went from 5 bolts down to 4. This gave them much more freedom in the cylinder head design to optimize flow. Especially on an OHV engine, I think it would be a step backwards to go back to 5 bolts.
reason is simple.

its hard to get insane power levels to seal reliably over time with the LS1. with the SBC, you could run a 9 second motor all season without headgasket issue.

reason is simple.

its hard to get insane power levels to seal reliably over time with the LS1. with the SBC, you could run a 9 second motor all season without headgasket issue.

Yup. What he said.

reason is simple.

its hard to get insane power levels to seal reliably over time with the LS1. with the SBC, you could run a 9 second motor all season without headgasket issue.
Doesn't seem to be an issue with Ford's 4.9L V8.

Besides, GM needs to design the best engine it can for the street. It doesn't make sense to make compromises to how well an engine will perform on the street, just for the sake of making it more bulletproof for the .0001% of people who want to make 800hp.

:think: i think i can shoe horn a v10 in the z. :D

This is gunna be GM's heavy duty engine, probably replacing the 8.1 in HD in trucks. GMT900 is being made for the V10
Looks like this is gunna be a truck-only engine, but ya never know. But what else would this be put in?
Big Caddy? With Caddy trying to move up market, why put a OHV "outdated" pushrod engine in there car...but they did it with the Sixteen...
Maybe a big Buick?! That would be awesome.
I think you are thinking about that a bit much. Most, probably 90% of consumers aren't going to know the difference between pushrod and DOHC and all that, all they know is its a V10, which is extremely rare and powerful. They put a pushrod in a pretty expensive CTS and look how thats doing...nobody cares if its "just a pushrod."

I think you are thinking about that a bit much. Most, probably 90% of consumers aren't going to know the difference between pushrod and DOHC and all that, all they know is its a V10, which is extremely rare and powerful. They put a pushrod in a pretty expensive CTS and look how thats doing...nobody cares if its "just a pushrod."

Funny how the Hemi is a pushrod and not one Import biased auto mag bashes it. It is also selling like hotcakes.

Funny how the Hemi is a

Cast Iron


pushrod and not one Import biased auto mag bashes it. It is also selling like hotcakes.

Funny how the Hemi is a pushrod and not one Import biased auto mag bashes it. It is also selling like hotcakes.

Funny how the Hemi ain't a Hemi and looks like a Rat with LSx runners.

Doesn't seem to be an issue with Ford's 4.9L V8.

Besides, GM needs to design the best engine it can for the street. It doesn't make sense to make compromises to how well an engine will perform on the street, just for the sake of making it more bulletproof for the .0001% of people who want to make 800hp.

You are kidding right ....about the 5.0 . It is a big issue , ask any ford racer about their 4 head bolts ;)

Funny how the Hemi ain't a Hemi and looks like a Rat with LSx runners.

You ever seen GM 8.1L heads?

They ARE rat heads with Gen III/IV SB runners... ;)

I'm pretty sure GM will not put this around... they are always too chicken to do things.. finally they are going to put a 427 after 40 years!!! WTF?

You ever seen GM 8.1L heads?

They ARE rat heads with Gen III/IV SB runners... ;)

yeah, but the 8.1 IS a rat. The Hemi isnt a hemi.

I'm pretty sure GM will not put this around... they are always too chicken to do things.. finally they are going to put a 427 after 40 years!!! WTF?

chicken eh? Like that they they make the 454 in the trucks? Or the new 8.1 in the trucks?
Chicken indeed.

Is the corvette an 8.1 has the camaro been a 8.1?

Guess Ford's chicken for not putting there V10 in the Mustang.

The Hemi isnt a hemi.

Are you saying this because of the two little tangs of metal that prevent the combustion chambers from being totally hemispherical? If so, I don't think that's a valid point. The defining characteristic of a hemi engine, IMO, is the valve placement and valvetrain setup required to run it. In that way, the new hemi is faithful to the old.

Perhaps some people around here are just a wee bit jealous if the success DCX is having with their new V8.

Are you saying this because of the two little tangs of metal that prevent the combustion chambers from being totally hemispherical? If so, I don't think that's a valid point. The defining characteristic of a hemi engine, IMO, is the valve placement and valvetrain setup required to run it. In that way, the new hemi is faithful to the old.

Perhaps some people around here are just a wee bit jealous if the success DCX is having with their new V8.

I agree with you in the success part, but... keep in mind that hemispherical is not round... but the name is important ;)

Are you saying this because of the two little tangs of metal that prevent the combustion chambers from being totally hemispherical? If so, I don't think that's a valid point. The defining characteristic of a hemi engine, IMO, is the valve placement and valvetrain setup required to run it. In that way, the new hemi is faithful to the old.

Perhaps some people around here are just a wee bit jealous if the success DCX is having with their new V8.

Truthfully, the new Hemi looks more like a Rat than it does a Hemi. The valve placement and design are a dead ringer for a big block Chevrolet turned 90 degrees. The runners are a dead ringer for the LSx family.

Maybe we oughta start calling it the "Porcupine Head" to piss off the Chrysler guys.

Truthfully, the new Hemi looks more like a Rat than it does a Hemi. The valve placement and design are a dead ringer for a big block Chevrolet turned 90 degrees. The runners are a dead ringer for the LSx family.
.


They totally went to school on the LSX stuff for sure...amazing actually.

Maybe we oughta start calling it the "Porcupine Head" to piss off the Chrysler guys.

I was thinking more along the line of Sorta-Hemi-Jet

Where is that article with the GM Powertrain engineer talking about how close the Hemi is the Gen III and Gen IV engine as far as design?