Ford sales down 4%

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=19289

Despite fantastic sales of the F150, which should be high, the rest of Ford is falling to sh*t.
19% drop in sales for cars.

But dont worry cause the GT can smoke a Ferrari! :rolleyes:
SVT will warranty your car if you break it durring racing!! :rolleyes:
Here comes the 300hp Mustang GT!! :rolleyes:

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=19289

Despite fantastic sales of the F150, which should be high, the rest of Ford is falling to sh*t.
19% drop in sales for cars.

But dont worry cause the GT can smoke a Ferrari! :rolleyes:
SVT will warranty your car if you break it durring racing!! :rolleyes:
Here comes the 300hp Mustang GT!! :rolleyes:

Al posted something negative about Ford :rolleyes: :D

Please...if GM's sales were down, it would be posted on here 400 times by all of you.

I find it odd that GM's great sales this month were never posted, but last month when it was down, it was posted a few times....hrmmmmm I see how it works.

Please...if GM's sales were down, it would be posted on here 400 times by all of you.

I find it odd that GM's great sales this month were never posted, but last month when it was down, it was posted a few times....hrmmmmm I see how it works.

I wouldn't be posting that stuff. Now Japanese sales down....that I'd be posting. ;)

I've liked GM since day 1. Thing is, I'm in the market for a muscle car/pony car and only one company offers one, Ford. And IMO, they've done a great job.

I just don't quite understand your resentment towards Ford Al? Scary experience at a Ford dealer as a child :confused: :D j/k

No...Family has had 5 fords...all have fallen apart.
I dont understand the "I had a 80's (insert domestic auto maker) here and now I only by this"
But my family has had 5, count'em, 5 Tauri. All have had a handful of recalls. My 95 was king.

On top of that Camaro>Mustang. :D

"Falling to sh*t"? ROTFLMAO!!!
You need to learn how to read a financial report or P&L.
Automotive revenue at Ford is up over $7b through the 2nd quarter CY. Income from the automotive operations are $1.75b compared to $665m in FY03. Income from financial services is $2.64b in '04 compared to $1.39b in '03. Total company net income is $3.117b vs. $1.313b in FY03. Earnings per share has more than doubled the comparable period in FY03.
Sales figures don't reflect a company's financial solvency. You must not know this.
:lol:
S.

oooo, all this money...and nothing to show for it. Yippy.

BTW, Al...GM's earnings through 2nd quarter were $2.621b, or about $500m behind the "falling to sh*t" Ford. ROTFLMAO! :lol:
Nothing to show for it? LOL...yeah, whatever you say.
S.

You guys just don't get it............ Al's never met a Ford he didn't hate. ;)

Certainly makes sense to me....... his family had 5 Taurus's, and they all sucked (makes you wonder why they bought 5 if they were so terrible)....... so all Fords suck.

I had a 1975 Cutlass Supreme that was the biggest POS that ever existed................ thus............. all GM's must suck. I guess thats why I currently own 4 of them (we sold 1 to buy our camping trailer).

You are looking at sales figures right BEFORE the introduction of a bunch of important models.......... and after Ford already explained that they are not going after the big fleet sales (wonder who picked all of those up???)............ and take that as proof that Ford is going down the sh*tter???

I guess the fact that F-series sales were up 22% over Sept of last year (the second highest monthly total in their 56 year history) isn't a good showing??? How about the fact that the Superduty sales were almost as high as the F150 sales for that month??? (unprecedented for a HD truck). How about the excellent sales of Escapes??? No, we have to look at the car sales........... Mustang sales were way down............. gee what a surprise, as there aren't many left with the new model coming out. Taurus sales are way down........... hmmmm, couldn't have anything to do with lower rental car sales??? Ranger sales are down............. as are all compact trucks (look at the new Colorado and Canyon......... even the Tacoma).

Anyway, I know it is hopeless to argue with Al. He knows all........ but what he mainly knows is that everything Ford builds sucks........ and everything that GM builds is the best their ever was. :rolleyes:

BTW, this is directed at Al only. Not the 95% of cool GM owners on this site. :)

ah...yeah..lets look at the escape shall we?


Car/Truck.....Sept 04...Sept 03....% +/-
Escape........12,564..... 13,216..... -4.9


down 5% YTD. Up for the year total, but compared to last year, down.
I guess you didnt realize that I said I have 5 of them, spaced out over 10 years...and all of them have had problems. You would figure that a car, built on the same chassis with teh same parts with the same engine...Ford would fix the problems by now that its a 15 year old chassis. Nope, still problems with springs busting in cold climates.

Why pick on me? Its not my fault Ford's sales are down 4%! Dont get mad at me cause I brought it to your attention. Eveyrone gets all testy when I say something about Ford.
Everyone else is having great sales, but Ford seems to be dipping. Ask yourself why? They are giving as much money away on cars as GM, if not more.
I said the F150 sales are up, and thats good...cause thats Fords golden child. Its the best truck out there, it should sell at these levels.

Actualy, I love the Ford GT and F series trucks, but does that matter? No, cause if I post this thread, it must mean that I hate all of Ford!! ARRR FORD!! DIE DIE DIE!!

All in all, Ford needs to stop f*ckign with super car concepts, and worry about the stuff real people buy.
Why hasnt Ford released the Focus on the new Mazda 3 chassis here in the US?
Why hasnt Ford let the Taurus and CV go?
Why doesnt Ford try and give Merc different sheetmetal then Ford?
THIS is what Ford needs to worry about. Not 550hp Supercars and trucks.
Ive changed my view on Ford. GM, Ford and DCX need to get back in the saddle and kick tail. GM and DCX are doing it...Ford needs to follow suit. Id rather see Ford stay at #2 in the US then see Toyota sneek up and grab it.
Enough of the "beat up on Big Al" crap, and realize what Ford is NOT doing.
Chevy might not have a "pony car", but its taking care of the rest of the buying public quite well.
Build up your cars first, take out the imports, then parade your "cool" toys in front of them.

You know, it is true that if GM sales were down, there would have been multiple posts about it. I was waiting to see if anyone posted something about it, but it never happened and I know a lot of people saw it. I'm not sure if I quite understand it.

Ford's cars are pretty weak and boring right now, I don't think anyone can dispute this. This also includes Mercury and Lincoln. We will see if they turn things around.

Car-wise, Ford was in a changeover "dead-spot" at the time.

Mustang was coming, the Taurus replacement is on the way, and there are a few other things in the pipeline.

That being said, Ford's car line is DOA right now. If the 500 is a success then Ford has a decent chance of pulling through.

Mustang will not provide enough sales to pull Ford through and the bread-n-butter cars will have to do so.

F150 is going to do pretty well, but will be wrapped up in yet another price war with GM which will limit profits.



Be VERY careful about making statements about relative profitability regarding GM unless you take into account the auxillary arms of the company... GM folks are pros at moving profits away from the automotive aspect of the company and into divisions like Hughes and GMAC.

Ask yourself this question:

Given 0% financing, how in the world can GMAC show a profit???

From the Autoextremist:

Quote of the Week: Steve Lyons, the Ford Division president, had this to say to the Detroit News about the Chevy vs. Ford sales battle (and Ford's reluctance to prop up sales by dumping cars into rental car fleets, or playing the incentive game to the degree that GM is), "If that costs us leadership, I guess I will be willing to congratulate Chevrolet on becoming the largest seller of rental cars in the world...and they can have that title."

From the Autoextremist:

Quote of the Week: Steve Lyons, the Ford Division president, had this to say to the Detroit News about the Chevy vs. Ford sales battle (and Ford's reluctance to prop up sales by dumping cars into rental car fleets, or playing the incentive game to the degree that GM is), "If that costs us leadership, I guess I will be willing to congratulate Chevrolet on becoming the largest seller of rental cars in the world...and they can have that title."

Sounds like he lives in Bittertown. I guess you have to find some way to deflect the reason why you are slipping.

Be VERY careful about making statements about relative profitability regarding GM unless you take into account the auxillary arms of the company... GM folks are pros at moving profits away from the automotive aspect of the company and into divisions like Hughes and GMAC.

Ask yourself this question:

Given 0% financing, how in the world can GMAC show a profit???Those figures do take into account GM's financing arm and other divisions under the GM banner. GM is still half a billion dollars behind Ford in net income through the 2nd quarter.
I believe it would be illegal for GM to hide net income. From a tax perspective, it would be the equivalent of tax evasion, whether they file on an accrual or cash basis (and I'm assuming these figures are accrual based). Also, it would be deceptive to shareholders to misrepresent net income by moving it elsewhere. If GM used net income to capitalize investment in other companies still under GM, or used it as operating income, it would still hit the bottom line.
As far as 0% financing...that's pretty simple, isn't it? Not everyone qualifies for 0% financing, and by tightening up the cut off, and bumping rates on non-qualified customers, I'm sure GMAC comes close to making up the difference.
Not matter what excuses or predictions you put on it, Ford, with $87b in revenue through the 2nd quarter is out earning GM's $97b in revenue by a rather substantial margin.
That being said, Ford's car line is DOA right now. If the 500 is a success then Ford has a decent chance of pulling through.This is laughable because the same axiom might well apply to GM. "A decent chance" of pulling through? ROTFLMAO!
S.

GM folks are pros at moving profits away from the automotive aspect of the company and into divisions like Hughes and GMAC.


GM no longer owns Hughes.

But as far as where the profits are counted, you're correct that it's tough for an outsider to figure out where the real money is being made.

:lol: :lol: Big Al's bias against anything with "Ford" on it never ceases to amaze me.

I believe it does affect his better judgment very much though. :think:

This is laughable because the same axiom might well apply to GM. "A decent chance" of pulling through? ROTFLMAO!
S.

Make no mistake, Ford is in deep trouble. The product better get competitive quickly or all they're going to sell are Mustangs and pickups... and that ain't enough.

a little clarification.....the division that 'sells' the car (in fact the individual brand) gets charged the costs to finance a car at zero percent finance. That is not moving money around. It's simply good accounting procedure. (accounting 101) GMAC does not have a vault full of money....contrary to popular belief. In fact, GMAC raises money on the open market everyday to finance cars and trucks. Cash incentives (and any other incentive, such as the GM card ) are also charged to the individual brand.

I agree with a few in this thread that no one bothered to post Chevrolet's sales for September......and no, they were not all due to fleet. Last week, I believe, someone posted that it was sad that on a Camaro website, there was no article on the first page of this section about GM.

I've tried getting into some intelligent conversations here, but it seems that some people do not want to learn anything. (I learned long ago that I don't know everything.....I may not like my computer...or the software programs on it, but because I don't know the computer business, I'm not going to take shots at IBM or Dell or Microsoft...and I'm not going to get into public discourse over computers.)

a bit of wisdom that perhaps some should write on the wall......."rarely, if ever, is there a single reason for why something happens. Inevitably, it is very very complicated...and it would be wise to discover those many and varied reasons, rather than make a false declaration."

One thing I've never yet seen anyone bring up on this board when talking about new product plans: The staggering number of Divisions within GM that must have fresh product versus the other manufacturers......anyone want to take a guess at what the real costs of differentiating vehicles cost?

One thing I've never yet seen anyone bring up on this board when talking about new product plans: The staggering number of Divisions within GM that must have fresh product versus the other manufacturers......anyone want to take a guess at what the real costs of differentiating vehicles cost?

Amen to that comment right there ;)

One thing I've never yet seen anyone bring up on this board when talking about new product plans: The staggering number of Divisions within GM that must have fresh product versus the other manufacturers......anyone want to take a guess at what the real costs of differentiating vehicles cost?

WRONGO!! :lol:
I have brought this up many times. Even devoted a thread to it. I'll bring it up again:
Ford and Chrysler are going to make more money selling fewer cars than GM, period!

While Chrysler and Ford spend money on a particular chassis, they at most will design only one other variation of the car. GM typically has to design at least 3. Not only is that added costs to design & machinery to make these different parts, there is also the additional costs of marketing, maintaining different sales networks, and then there's the variety of employees doing the same jobs in multiple divisions.

Take the Taurus-Sable for example. It typically sells around 300,000+ per year. GM's W-bodies run far less. Yet GM is selling the W body through 3 entirely different brands (4 before Oldsmobile died). That's 3 marketing divisions, 3 times the support personnel, 3 separate stampings, interiors, etc. To make matters worse, Ford has far fewer dealers selling the car (Chrysler even less) meaning that dealers are making far more money per car & selling far more cars per dealer. This doesn't even include GM's pension and employee healthcare costs.

To put it bluntly, GM NEEDS volume to survive. Ford and Chrysler are smaller companies with far smaller budgets and much smaller operating costs. The mind numbing irony is that these smaller companies can better afford cars like the Viper, or the Ford GT, or an SVT or SRT division making specialty cars than GM.

From a stock standpoint and an enthusiasts standpoint, Ford & Chrysler tend to look better. But they aren't perfect. Both are far more prone to sudden changes in the market than GM is. GM has a better ability to throw it's weight around in incentives and in dealing with subcontractors.

So, Ford is going to make money. The only way Ford isn't going to make alot of money is if someone screws up phenominally bad (even blown gaskets and the Firestone-Explorer episode didn't kill them!).

Chrysler is also set up to make serious bank. In the late 90s "little" Chrysler had enough money in their warchest, and had enough money pouring in each year, they could have actually made a serious run in buying up a controling intrest in GM, let alone buying Mercedes Benz.

I bash on GM's beancounters alot, and how GM's management setup moves about as fast as maple syrup going uphill in the winter. But in reality, those people are keeping GM going despite the odds against it. Products don't see the light of day unless they KNOW it's going to sell. New risky ideas are all but banned till someone else with money (ie, the other 2 guys) proves it works 1st.

GM isn't going to be a stellar money maker without large volume & market share.

a little clarification.....the division that 'sells' the car (in fact the individual brand) gets charged the costs to finance a car at zero percent finance. That is not moving money around. It's simply good accounting procedure. (accounting 101) GMAC does not have a vault full of money....contrary to popular belief. In fact, GMAC raises money on the open market everyday to finance cars and trucks.

Welp, then here's an interesting question...

Is GMAC selling the money to the divisions at the same or a higher rate of interest than on the open market?



I agree with a few in this thread that no one bothered to post Chevrolet's sales for September......and no, they were not all due to fleet. Last week, I believe, someone posted that it was sad that on a Camaro website, there was no article on the first page of this section about GM.

If I remember my Automotive News correctly, Chevrolet was up something like 40%... maybe it was just Impala... regardless, it's a whole boatload of cars and trucks.



I've tried getting into some intelligent conversations here, but it seems that some people do not want to learn anything. (I learned long ago that I don't know everything.....I may not like my computer...or the software programs on it, but because I don't know the computer business, I'm not going to take shots at IBM or Dell or Microsoft...and I'm not going to get into public discourse over computers.)

Easy big guy...

Passion sometimes interferes with judgement, which is why you are so valued around here.

Passion is an important thing to have... in measured amounts. It needs the voice of reason to temper it.

George Patton once said:

"Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets."

Consider this your classroom, and some of us pupils are a little more unruly than others...



One thing I've never yet seen anyone bring up on this board when talking about new product plans: The staggering number of Divisions within GM that must have fresh product versus the other manufacturers......anyone want to take a guess at what the real costs of differentiating vehicles cost?

I have on a number of occasions brought up the fact that GM has tremendous economy of scale behind it. One offshoot of that economy of scale is the ability to bring multiple cars off of a platform and share costs.

Unfortunately, in some cases, this then involves the danger of two cars off of a platform that should honestly have only one... The other danger is that one gets the wrong division leading the charge on a vehicle platform... say... having a stodgy old division that doesn't sell a whole lot of cars in the first place having the ability to dictate terms on vehicle design and particular (and HUGELY IMPORTANT) features to a volume sales division... that'll sell the car at the rate of 2 to 1 anyway.