"Official" Charger drawing?

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100949

Again, why are they bothering? It's a re-hash of the blunt, upright 300...oh but it has a dodge front and a character line in the rear quarter... :rolleyes:

That NASCAR version at the bottom is what was described to me as the production Charger's nose. I took it as the actual Charger front end instead of the Car & Driver rendition, and said so.

Guess I'm eating crow on that one. :)

Again, why are they bothering? It's a re-hash of the blunt, upright 300...oh but it has a dodge front and a character line in the rear quarter... :rolleyes:
my feelings are the same
staying with the 300 body style was a mistake imo

also, does anyone think the bottom half of the front looks like the mustang?

*yawn* looky...it's dodges version of the 300 sedan.

I don't mind the blunt front end, but the 4 doors and sedan profile killed this car for me. There's zero sportiness in its lines. They should have just called it the magnum sedan, and left the charger name for a more worthwhile coupe.

Very dissapointed! I, like many others, would like to have seen the 99' Charger concept in some form but I think we knew this was comming. Anyway, it's not bad for a sedan, and I think I might like it better than the 300 but as far as a Charger is concerned................boooooooorrrrrrrring.

i think its a great looking car. i don't understand how the fact that its dodge's version of the 300 should surprise anyone. the fact that it shares NO external body panels with the 300 is more than any of us should have expected. the 300 and Charger are more destinguished than most platform mates of other manufacturers. so what's with the negativism? just because it has 4 doors it can't be Charger? do me a favor and put your thumb where the rear door seem comes down when looking at the profile of the Charger next time. looks like a Charger to me. :confused:

Can't say that I don't feel some disappointment.

Dodge can score afew points with me though, if the offer the Hemi with a six speed manual (which they won't).

The more you look at it, the more you can see the "Charger" in it. You have to wonder what a Charger Daytona might look like. Really, it's not bad for a sedan and they did seem to do a decent enough job of disguising the rear doors without going the RX-8 route.

Btw, what's this "SRT-12" blurb in the article? That number seems a few cylinders off.

I don't understand how those rear doors are supposed to be minimized, I'll just wait to see it at the auto show.

Sorry for consecutive post, but the old thread brought this to mind. It doesen't matter what the old charger looked like, it could have been a Minibus with a spoiler package. This "new muscle car generation" doesen't seem to be curbed toward those who "miss" the area it's for those who "missed" it, and we to young or not born enough to remember it. So if it is as blocky as these pics suggest I believe DCX is going to learn the same lesson GM just did, selling a name (GTO) is fine but people who buy a name, want just that a name(and maybe an engine). And aren't going to sacrifice all things modern and trendy (hoodscoops, racydesign, TWO DOORS) just to be true to the name.
You can't sell a hot image, to people who interested in image, if that image is completely not hot by todays standards...

That car does absolutely nothing to me... :tired:

TS

I'm not excited at all when I look at that. The front end is a decent start but it still looks like a bloated pig. The GTO looks 10x more sporty than this thing.

How are those rear doors hidden and how does this resemble the '99 concept?

I'm not excited at all when I look at that. The front end is a decent start but it still looks like a bloated pig. The GTO looks 10x more sporty than this thing.

How are those rear doors hidden and how does this resemble the '99 concept?

couldn't have said it better myself :bow:

it was supposed to have rear suicide doors that were small... and be like a coupe but with 4 doors. It might be a great car, but why are they calling it charger. A charger was not 4 doors. At least the "terrible" gto stayed with its root as a coupe.....

A 4 door mustang would not be a mustang, a 4 door camaro would not be a camaro, so why should a 4 door non station wagon magnum be a charger... its just a magnum sedan to me which is not a bad thing at all. Im still hoping they suprise us and unveil a 2 door 6 speed 400hp Charger. That would be a very welcome suprise :)

Here's a two door PS.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/300hemic/Chargercoupe.jpg

Wow....Chrysler really dropped a very big ball on this one. If it looked like the '99 concept, I'd be saving my money right now. But this one, I wouldn't even look at twice in any dealership.

I don't understand why they don't just call it a Magnum sedan... :confused:

i think too many in here are hung up on a 5 yearold CONCEPT design. it's not even a prototype. who knows if that car was made if it were to actually come out as was shown. besides, that 99 design is OUTDATED by today's standards and i always thought it looked awkward. besides, if you put up the two side by side i think the new one looks way better. you guys need to take off your beer gogles... :rolleyes:

http://members.shaw.ca/sliderr/autoshow/charger.jpg

Looks nice and more sporty than the 300. I'd probably consider one if I was 40 with a wife and kids......However, I don't think it's a good idea to market this thing as a charger......especially with 4 doors....yuck.

i think too many in here are hung up on a 5 yearold CONCEPT design. it's not even a prototype. who knows if that car was made if it were to actually come out as was shown. besides, that 99 design is OUTDATED by today's standards and i always thought it looked awkward. besides, if you put up the two side by side i think the new one looks way better. you guys need to take off your beer gogles... :rolleyes:

http://members.shaw.ca/sliderr/autoshow/charger.jpg
I didn't really car for the '99 even when it first appeared, but now I just think it looks outdated and disproportionate. JMHO. I agree with those who think this drawing just looks kind of like a Magnum sedan, but I suppose that's better than Shelby's Charger. :D:no: Now THAT was molesting a legendary name.

i think too many in here are hung up on a 5 yearold CONCEPT design. it's not even a prototype. who knows if that car was made if it were to actually come out as was shown. besides, that 99 design is OUTDATED by today's standards and i always thought it looked awkward. besides, if you put up the two side by side i think the new one looks way better. you guys need to take off your beer gogles... :rolleyes:

http://members.shaw.ca/sliderr/autoshow/charger.jpg
Posting that link up for evidence of the 99 concept being uglier than this new Charger didn't do much to sway me sorry to say. I had two browsers up looking at both in rapid succession and putting the 99 concept next to it just emphasizes how fugly the 300Charger is. I'm sure it'll be a solid car and a decent value but if I'm going to drop 30k on a car I want it to at least look good.

The old 99 concept is much better. I dont know wtf they were staying about how its gunna have some of the style of the 99 concept. This is a Dodge-ified 300C.
What happend to the RX8 style doors?
Where is the "coupe like" styling?

But hey...its gotta a hemi!! Gunna be a gold mine.

ditch that blunt, ugly, trucklike front end, and we might have something (if they pair the 6-speed manual with the 6.1 hemi, of course)...like the 300, it's way too boxy and needs to be more aerodynamic...modeling it closer to that NASCRAP version could be a good start

I suprised how many people are ripping it for having 4drs. No one seemed upset when the 300M appeared with 4drs, what about the early 90s Impala?

Don't worry, there is a rumor that someone saw a much more 99 Charger looking coupe at the Proving Grounds. BTW, the SRT8 Charger is suppose to show up at the end of next year. There is strong speculation that is will have a different nose.

Yes, but the 300 and Impy SS arent as big as the Charger.

Better comparison is how people were disappointed when the 300M was FWD adn V6 powerd.

"Dont worry..more is coming"...staring to sound like GM :)

Dodge should be ashamed.......this is the ultimate whoring of a legendary name....but who's surprised?....after they already shamed the name with the 4 banger version.....f-in' Germans....and I was raised a Mopar guy.......never again.

I've had alittle time to mull this over. I think this will be a nice sedan....some of us can use a sedan.
I like the 300C . The only thing that puts me off on the 300C is it's country club trim. Too much tortoise shell and chrome for my tastes.
This car will correct all of that.

The only thing controversial here, is the name.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, I think the Charger is a nice looking V8 RWD sedan that will sell at a fair price.

The only thing controversial here, is the name.


Ive heard this before...dont know where....but it does sound familiar.

Time for the Chargers day under the Enthusiats thumb. Im sure cause it has a hemi, they will look the other way while the GTO is still bashed.

Cant wait to read what Hemmings Motor News says about it. They tare the GTO apart in every mag.

OMFG that car is f***in UGLY! :yuck: :no: :no: :no: :barf:

Not exactly what I had in mind, but if it has a stiffer suspension, less of a base price than a 300C, then I will definitely buy one. I may wait for a PVO version first. I want one of these or a PVO Magnum.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, I think the Charger is a nice looking V8 RWD sedan that will sell at a fair price.

First of all, a real Charger is not a sedan. Period.

Second, the 300 is also a "nice looking" (to some) V8 RWD sedan that sells at a fair price. Again I don't see the point of this vehicle. Same size, same shape, same underpinnings, same options (most likely), legendary name slapped on. Don't go through too much effort there Dodge.

What a mistake. And what a shame that it seems they have full intentions of ruining the Charger name (once again) on that car. The enthusiasts will not accept it. With that name, this car is a joke, no matter how fast it is. It just doesn't belong. If they have any sense they'll save the name for the supposed upcoming 2 door coupe.

Again I don't see the point of this vehicle. Same size, same shape, same underpinnings, same options (most likely), legendary name slapped on.


Camaro/Firebird anyone?

I like it. :cool:

It looks OK, but is no Charger. So much for a sedan that looks like a coupe :rolleyes: It looks too much like a lightly reskinned 300/Magnum.

Once again.. I like.
Its both powerfull and practical.

Camaro/Firebird anyone?


Not even close. Totally different body panels and interiors and most importantly Camaro and Firebird names that belonged on those cars. I don't see how anybody who bashed GTO couldn't be just as livid about this.

LMAO! I love the sketch of the NASCAR "Charger" sitting right next to the production Charger, which plainly emphasizes that they look NOTHING alike. Might as well park a a Malibu next to a C5-R and say the C5-R is the racing version of the Malibu. :no:

But anyway, yes, the Charger is ugly.

I'm sure all the GTO bashers are going to be consistent and similarly bash the Charger as being unworth of the name " 'cause it doesn't look like a Charger..." Right? :think:

That NASCAR version at the bottom is what was described to me as the production Charger's nose. I took it as the actual Charger front end instead of the Car & Driver rendition, and said so.It's too bad it doesn't look like the NASCAR version. That would be one cool looking ride. :D

Really terrible stuff. Please, please, please buy some designers. Quick.

......I'm sure all the GTO bashers are going to be consistent and similarly bash the Charger as being unworth of the name " 'cause it doesn't look like a Charger..." Right? :think:

Absolutely....this is the EXACT point those of us who give a sh*t about the Camaro name being slapped on an un-recognizable vehicle, worry about. The whoring of legendary names on cars with no decernable physical trait of their namesakes.

Pontiac could have called it ANYTHING else and people would have thought..."there's an otherwise non-decript car, but it's a V8, RWD coupe, so I'll take a look...".....but NOOOOO, they slapped a GTO badge on it and expected people to buy into thier, now self admitted mistake, of rationalizing their shortcomings. Stepped in it big time didn't they?

Dodge SHOULD have called this a Magnum sedan.....(and gave it the muscular wheel flares they gave the fuggin' stationwagon), but NOOOOOOOO "Let's whore out the Charger name for a few sales and something to advertise our NASCAR involvement"....doesn't matter that it has ONLY a V8, RWD to connect the DNA of the legendary NASCAR Chargers...not one single visual clue whatsoever. But, hell, at least they saved any development $$ on this cheap 300 knock-off...that and they already whored it out earlier with the Omni 4 cyl/FWD version.....

I've always maintained the Monaro/GTO was a good, maybe even great car, but don't expect me to buy it......I'm sure the Dodge Magnum/Charger will be a good car and a good value...but I ain't buying it either...4 doors are for sissies...(yes, I'm old school)

Obviously the names mean something or they'd just call it something new.......but at least TRY to make it look like it came from the same gene pool.....

Scott already knows that anything like these stunts happen to the Camaro and there'll be hell to pay and another quick Hiatus.....

From what I have heard, this is the answer to the rental car problem. They were having problems marketing to this lucrative market because the 300 looks to upscale. If you look at it in that context, it makes much more sense. Not a bad looking car to me at all.

Kinda looks like a new mustang. Right what it should be competing against. i think part of the f-bodies demise is it looked too sporty and aerodynamic.

Decent looking sedan but def. not a Charger. The Charger name was raped in the '80's and now its bending over for another helping from DaimlerChrysler. Like I said, decent looking sedan, hell call it Magnum sedan, but not a Charger.

Imagine it's 2007 and Buick brings back the Roadmaster on the large Zeta platform. This Roadmaster is a big, cushy American sedan, and it's pretty fast, especially for what it is. Now imagine Chevy wants a piece. They also need a big, quick RWD V8 sedan right? Imagine they aren't sold on the Caprice name making a comeback, even though it's probably what the car should be called based on Chevy history. The Impala name is already selling well on the FWD W-body line. I know! Let's simply take this Roadmaster, add a character crease in the rear fenders, re-do the front fascia to fall in line with the Chevy family (complete with chrome mustache bar, naturally) and let's slap the best-known name on it that we have but aren't using....yeah, let's call this Chevy Roadmaster the Camaro! Brilliant, eh?



(grabbing the heart paddles for the old-timers here)......CLEAR!!! ;)



The scary thing is, this is what DCX is going to do!!! Now do you see what we're saying? :eek:

I had thought I already mentioned that the 300 and Charger share NO external body panels. NONE. Is that sinking in yet? Yes they'll have the same mechanicals and dimentions being based on the same platform. They're DIFFERENT ENOUGH. As far as the new sedan being called a Charger, I think this is a much better fit for the name than the Omni based crap that everyone keeps bringing up. Besides, it's not being marketed to Charger fanatics or even enthusiasts, like the GTO was. The Charger is being marketed to the general populous that has little idea of the ties the name has to a relatively obsucre muscle car that hasn't been produced in 30+ years! And the whole Roadmaster scenario is ludacrous, not so much for the Camaro part but that some of you still think it's possible for the American Land Barge (tm) to ever return or that the 300/Charger qualifies as such. gag. :barf: :no:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/hemiman876/hemiman_charger_daytona.jpg

........Besides, it's not being marketed to Charger fanatics or even enthusiasts, like the GTO was. The Charger is being marketed to the general populous that has little idea of the ties the name has to a relatively obsucre muscle car that hasn't been produced in 30+ years!.......

Then why call it Charger?......Something it obviously is NOT....It's a Magnum sedan...

This is EXACTLY the same argument GM tried to use with the GTO.....and NO-ONE bought it then either....

Name whoring...pure and simple.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/hemiman876/hemiman_charger_daytona.jpg

God, please make it stop.......that thing just gets more hideous.......

I had thought I already mentioned that the 300 and Charger share NO external body panels. NONE. Is that sinking in yet? Yes they'll have the same mechanicals and dimentions being based on the same platform. They're DIFFERENT ENOUGH. As far as the new sedan being called a Charger, I think this is a much better fit for the name than the Omni based crap that everyone keeps bringing up. Besides, it's not being marketed to Charger fanatics or even enthusiasts, like the GTO was. The Charger is being marketed to the general populous that has little idea of the ties the name has to a relatively obsucre muscle car that hasn't been produced in 30+ years! And the whole Roadmaster scenario is ludacrous, not so much for the Camaro part but that some of you still think it's possible for the American Land Barge (tm) to ever return or that the 300/Charger qualifies as such. gag. :barf: :no:

Exactly the same thing I was going to say..... while daimler chrysler is using a legendary name, they have a few things that will drive the sales here.

1. The product is mass market, if done as interpid replacement, think of the fleet sales, you can say the same thing with the GTO.
2. Just because it is called a charger, does not mean dcx has right to assrape everyone with the price, much like GM did.

Yes, the GTO is a great auto, however GM royally focked up by thinking a limited market (2 door rwd coupe) vehicle can command a premium tag, and while the people that would by the GTO are the enthuisiasts, to whom true heritage really means something. The charger, as far as DCX is concerned, it does not matter if original charger buyers will be buying this for roots or not, there is a MUCH BIGGER PIECE OF THE PIE as the general target market segment. If anything, using the Charger name will help sell this.

I think the reason the Mopar guys, but not me, are pissed is not really bcuz of the look of the car as much as it has 4drs. They have gone a lot longer then anyone else without a 2dr, v8, rwd coupe. Some have said that it looks similar to a the '66 model. Just wait for the coupe.

P.S. I think that Daytona drawing is ok, but put the NASCAR nose on it and I think it gets a lot better.

I think there will be some amount of backpedaling once people see the car in person (or at least a rear shot of it). The roofline does resemble the '60s Charger. A few details here and there honoring the original would go along way. Perhaps the SRT-8 version is a bit more nostalgic.

Is having four doors a big deal? Sure, I don't want a 4-dr Camaro, but GM has done this enough with Impala, Grand Prix, Malibu...why be surprised if Dodge does it? They are already stretching the truth and milking "HEMI" for all its worth. I think a bigger complaint would be the omission of a manual transmission. You hope that at least makes it in.

And the whole Roadmaster scenario is ludacrous, not so much for the Camaro part but that some of you still think it's possible for the American Land Barge (tm) to ever return or that the 300/Charger qualifies as such. gag. :barf: :no:

Why is it so ludicrous? It's obvious that historic nameplates mean little if it will help sales. A Charger is NOT a sedan! And I'm not talking "land barges", I'm just talking full size cars. The new "Charger" is nothing more than Dodge's 300...at least Pontiac used a platform and a styling theme (save for the front end) not found at any other division for GTO....

Doug gets it, but I give up. It's your right to like the Charger. Heck it's got a Hemi right? :bow: It qualifies. :rolleyes:

Care for the styling of the GTO or not, the GTO has all the basic credentials of what a "real" GTO should have. High horse V8, RWD, 2-door configuration.


The new Charger has the V8, RWD... but... wait... it's a sedan! Something that is inherant to the "soul" of the name, if you will, is not only incorrect, but it slaps you right in the face visually.... 4 giant doors.

Just afew thoughts on this Camaro analogy.

Charger does not equal Camaro. This is not the same debate. Charger ...with the exception of the '80's FWD versions....has always been a LARGE coupe. I can't really think of a Chevy equivalent, maybe the original Grand Prix is the closest thing that GM had to the original Charger.

Grand Prix's are now only sedans.

I remember when the '94 Impala SS came out. People were saying...."an Impala SS...4 door??? What are they thinking?"

I see everyone's point. I'm alittle torn myself. But naming this car "Charger" will probably end up being a smart move. Whether we like it or not.

Care for the styling of the GTO or not, the GTO has all the basic credentials of what a "real" GTO should have. High horse V8, RWD, 2-door configuration.


The new Charger has the V8, RWD... but... wait... it's a sedan! Something that is inherant to the "soul" of the name, if you will, is not only incorrect, but it slaps you right in the face visually.... 4 giant doors.

Yup, it might as well been a truck if RWD and V8 were the only prerequisites.

Don't forget the Charger Sedan will also be offered as a V6 as a replacement for the Intrepid Sedan

V6 Sedan = No Charger :no:

I had thought I already mentioned that the 300 and Charger share NO external body panels. NONE. Is that sinking in yet? Yes they'll have the same mechanicals and dimentions being based on the same platform. They're DIFFERENT ENOUGH. As far as the new sedan being called a Charger, I think this is a much better fit for the name than the Omni based crap that everyone keeps bringing up. Besides, it's not being marketed to Charger fanatics or even enthusiasts, like the GTO was. The Charger is being marketed to the general populous that has little idea of the ties the name has to a relatively obsucre muscle car that hasn't been produced in 30+ years! And the whole Roadmaster scenario is ludacrous, not so much for the Camaro part but that some of you still think it's possible for the American Land Barge (tm) to ever return or that the 300/Charger qualifies as such. gag. :barf: :no:


So what if they don't share body panels? It is very clear the cars are very similar. The Charger is also very similar to the Magnum, in sedan form. Sure it's a better fit than Omni, but would you sound just as positively if the 4-door Chevy SS came to be called Camaro?

The Roadmaster scenario is used to illustrate a point, using exaggeration, and I'm surprised you are reading into it as a realistic situation.

Exactly the same thing I was going to say..... while daimler chrysler is using a legendary name, they have a few things that will drive the sales here.

1. The product is mass market, if done as interpid replacement, think of the fleet sales, you can say the same thing with the GTO.
2. Just because it is called a charger, does not mean dcx has right to assrape everyone with the price, much like GM did.

Yes, the GTO is a great auto, however GM royally focked up by thinking a limited market (2 door rwd coupe) vehicle can command a premium tag, and while the people that would by the GTO are the enthuisiasts, to whom true heritage really means something. The charger, as far as DCX is concerned, it does not matter if original charger buyers will be buying this for roots or not, there is a MUCH BIGGER PIECE OF THE PIE as the general target market segment. If anything, using the Charger name will help sell this.


I see logical fallacy. The Charger is mass-marketed. So it will sell based on the design of the car, not the name. It is not marketed to fans of the original Charger. They abhor this car because it has nothing to do with the original Charger. Count them out. Hence Chrysler ought not expect mass movement on the parts of the fans to buy this car. Having said that, you say that the Charger name will help sales? In what way?

I fail to see the reasons behind Chrysler's move to slap Charger name on this 4-door sedan. Magnum sedan is a much better fit, IMO.

LMAO! I love the sketch of the NASCAR "Charger" sitting right next to the production Charger, which plainly emphasizes that they look NOTHING alike. Might as well park a a Malibu next to a C5-R and say the C5-R is the racing version of the Malibu. :no:

But anyway, yes, the Charger is ugly.

I'm sure all the GTO bashers are going to be consistent and similarly bash the Charger as being unworth of the name " 'cause it doesn't look like a Charger..." Right? :think:
This GTO basher is being consistent(which is to say I thought the GTO too plain looking for the price). I think the new Charger looks horrific. The rear shot looks ok and the profile I can deal with...it's the front end that messes it all up for me. And the fact it'll likely be pricey and heavy doesn't have me thrilled either.

I don't mind the Charger being a sedan. The Charger wasn't exactly a small pony car in the 60s & 70s. The people who would have bought a Charger 2 door then would buy a 4 door Charger today. Charger was just a fancy name stuck on a 2 door Dodge Coronet to differentate it from it's rental car/fleet sedan brother.

One would think that with the reverence the mid 90s Chevrolet Impala SS sedan has, the reception for a high powered Chrysler sedan that had it's name also rooted in coupes of the muscle car era would be a bit more positive.

Don't forget guys, this sedan shortly after introduction is also going to pack a 6.1 liter, 425 horse V8 proper Hemi engine with enough torque to peel the treads off the back tires. :eek:

Don't let it's looks fool you. :no:

Why wait when I can get a GTO with as much power for probably less money?

You know this constant rationalization of whoring out legendary names for profit, no matter WTF you slap it on..."the GTO was just a Lemans and now the Charger was just a Coronet"....BULLSH!T....what next? The Camaro was just a pretty Nova? The Mustang just a cute Falcon? The Cuda just a good looking Valiant?

Is NOTHING sacred? Or don't you give a damn? Was the musclecar era just a dream?

This pathetic thinking just lends support to those MORONS inside GM who want to either put the Camaro name on something that is NOT a Camaro or change the name of the proposed Camaro to something else.

The ONLY reason GM abused the GTO name and now Chrysler abuses the Charger name is for GREED pure and simple...trying to invoke their legendary names for quick profit....and then they try to blow smoke up our @$$e$ to try and rationalize their greed.

This abortion that Chrysler is throwing out there should be condemed by EVERYONE who loves the musclecar the name came from.....not rationalized because it has a semi-HEMI and is RWD....Big f'in deal...it's a damned 4 door, plain jane, UGLY sedan..... sometimes I feel like I'm one of the ONLY one left who gives a flying f**k....... :think: :irk:

I care too. Although you lack some tact, I agree with you whole heartedly on this.......

While I appreciate the support.....I'll forgive you because you're new around here and don't know me from Adam.....Those who do, know that I live and breath Camaro and musclecars....and have since they were new (yes, I'm old).

So if I seem to lack some "tact" it's just that I am at my wits end with the constant dumbing down of the legendary nameplates that true enthusiasts hold in high regard.

I'm passionette about this more than most, because I CARE about what may or may not happen to the Camaro when it returns....IF it returns.........

I'm passionette about this more than most, because I CARE about what may or may not happen to the Camaro when it returns....IF it returns.........

On this point Doug, I'm in complete lock step with you. As you know, my PASSION for Camaro is a raging inferno in my soul!

You know this constant rationalization of whoring out legendary names for profit, no matter WTF you slap it on..."the GTO was just a Lemans and now the Charger was just a Coronet"....BULLSH!T....what next? The Camaro was just a pretty Nova? The Mustang just a cute Falcon? The Cuda just a good looking Valiant?

Is NOTHING sacred? Or don't you give a damn? Was the musclecar era just a dream?

This pathetic thinking just lends support to those MORONS inside GM who want to either put the Camaro name on something that is NOT a Camaro or change the name of the proposed Camaro to something else.

The ONLY reason GM abused the GTO name and now Chrysler abuses the Charger name is for GREED pure and simple...trying to invoke their legendary names for quick profit....and then they try to blow smoke up our @$$e$ to try and rationalize their greed.

This abortion that Chrysler is throwing out there should be condemed by EVERYONE who loves the musclecar the name came from.....not rationalized because it has a semi-HEMI and is RWD....Big f'in deal...it's a damned 4 door, plain jane, UGLY sedan..... sometimes I feel like I'm one of the ONLY one left who gives a flying f**k....... :think: :irk:

Camaro was a whole different car, not a version of the Nova (though it did have a simular chassis).

The muscle car era was about putting a big engine in a medium or small car. Because of this, you can bet your bippy the new Charger lives up to being a muscle car, eith with the 5.7 Hemi or that 6.1 425 horse (about 575 horses in 1960s horsepower measurments) Hemi that's coming out. If you think otherwise, think again!

The average joe on the street couldn't afford the top level muscle cars of the day such as a Hemi Charger or a Ram Air IV GTO. Yet, just about everyone can afford the new GTO that's quicker than any other, or the Charger that promises to be the same.

The GTO Judge was a dismal failure in the market place, and lasted less than a year and a half. You could still find unsold late 60s muscle cars in dealers lots in the early 70s. The more successful mid 60s cars can be outrun by supercharged FWD V6 Impalas today. Are those cars on a unrealistically high pedastal? You bet they are! But that doesn't mean they were bad cars by a long shot.

However, the GTO WAS a Pontiac Tempest with a big engine. Charger WAS a 2 door Dodge Coronet. The nursery song "Ring around the Rosie" IS really about the Black Plague. Just because over the years some people have changed the meaning of things doesn't mean that what they really are have changed.

Does the GTO being a Tempest or the Camaro sharing parts with a Nova (or later, engineering features with a early 70s Chevy Vega) or a Charger being a Coronet take away from their existance? Only to those who are more comfortable worshipping something.

The only examples of old era muscle cars you see today are the high performance and the rare versions. Because of this, people tend to think these were the only versions of these cars made. In reality, 90% of these cars were boring base and mid level cars. And of that 10% that were performance models, probally less than 10% had the top available engine.

Those rare and special cars were the only ones worth preserving. The Charger Bumble Bee is a revered car, but the Charger itself was much along the lines of a Colbalt coupe. Next years Monte Carlo V8 will be a spiting image of what the original GTO was.

Camaro will always be Camaro. Chevys answer to the Mustang or GM's replacement to the Chevrolet Corvair Monza, depending on your point of view. ;)

IF they wanted to be true to a car's past then GM should have called the GTO the Tempest and DMC should call this abortion the Coronet......but they didn't, did they?

IF they wanted to be true to a car's past then GM should have called the GTO the Tempest and DMC should call this abortion the Coronet......but they didn't, did they?

By right, GM could have called the Grand Prix GTP the GTO, but they didn't. Ditto the Grand Am GT. Pontiac could have brought over the Monaro SV6 and called it the Tempest to balence out the GTO.

Isn't calling the Charger an "abortion" before it's even out, priced, and actually checked out a bit harsh?

What if Chrysler sell the car (with Hemi) at a price on par or lower than Grand Prix GTP or a loaded Ford 500? I think you'd probally end up crying in the wilderness in that case, because I suspect any outrage out there will be drowned out as those same people beat feet to the Dodge showroom. :)

By right, GM could have called the Grand Prix GTP the GTO, but they didn't. Ditto the Grand Am GT. Pontiac could have brought over the Monaro SV6 and called it the Tempest to balence out the GTO.

But they didn't did they? Let's stop defending the un-defendable...they both put out half @$$ed attempts at doing the right thing with these cars, slapped legendary names on them to make a quick buck and are blowing sunshine up our @$$ to make us believe them....not me.

Isn't calling the Charger an "abortion" before it's even out, priced, and actually checked out a bit harsh?

You didn't see the pictures? The sketches? I sure as hell didn't see anything even remotely resembling a Charger in those photos...

What if Chrysler sell the car (with Hemi) at a price on par or lower than Grand Prix GTP or a loaded Ford 500? I think you'd probally end up crying in the wilderness in that case, because I suspect any outrage out there will be drowned out as those same people beat feet to the Dodge showroom. :)

Again, THAT'S NOT THE POINT! If these cars are good enough, they could call them SOMETHING ELSE!

Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead driving a 4 door and pretending I was driving a musclecar.....especially cars like the 300 and this mistake...bricks with wheels....whoopty f'in deal......dad's 1973 Chrysler Imperial had a 440 4bbl, but it sure as hell wasn't a musclecar :death:

......and DMC should call this abortion the Coronet......

I agree with you on this. I think the intro of this car being called the Coronet would have gone over much better and use the Charger name for the upcoming 2dr LX.

I dont see how a 400hp car is "half-a**ed" but ok...to each his or her own. The GTO follows almost exactly how the original started.

I dont see how a 400hp car is "half-a**ed" but ok...to each his or her own. The GTO follows almost exactly how the original started.

Almost doesn't count...this ain't horse shoes or hand grenades....hell, Gary Cowger himself ADMITS they screwed up by not giving the GTO the one thing that EVERY GTO had...hood scoops. Trivial to some, but where do you draw the line?

But as long as people make excuses for them, they'll keep doing it and when the Camaro comes back as an upright mid-sized sedan instead of the pony car it's supposed to be, don't say I didn't tell you so.

I see logical fallacy. The Charger is mass-marketed. So it will sell based on the design of the car, not the name. It is not marketed to fans of the original Charger. They abhor this car because it has nothing to do with the original Charger. Count them out. Hence Chrysler ought not expect mass movement on the parts of the fans to buy this car. Having said that, you say that the Charger name will help sales? In what way?

I fail to see the reasons behind Chrysler's move to slap Charger name on this 4-door sedan. Magnum sedan is a much better fit, IMO.
Doug, you need to read this. muckz, you also need to actually read what you write. if you're going to make a point, make sure it supports what you're arguing FOR and not AGAINST. because you basically took exactly what i and Aero said and shuffled the words around. the car is not marketed to you or doug. get it?

Magnum "sedan" would not work either. the Magnum name is dedicated to the station wagon to avoid having it call that (since wagons have been given such a bad name in America because of the aformentioned American Land Barge (tm)). as by convention, the name decends from the sedan version to the wagon and not the other way around. Charger is then the other side to avoiding calling the Magnum station wagon a station wagon. Charger is a cool name that is being placed on an equally cool car deserving of the name. that's how "Charger" will help sell more cars.

it took me a while to understand why all the anamosity toward the Charger (and GTO before it). but i see it now. there are still some old timers around that fell in love with some cars of their teenaged wet dreams, though there is nothing wrong with this part. BUT, the names of these cars on anything BUT the exact cars these people fell in love with is plain WRONG in their mind. possibly more wrong than to make out with one's sister (not a redneck pun, just making a point). it's useless to spend any time arguing with this type of blind, irrational FEELING and emotion that these people have for a name. the name itself carry's more value than the original car that spawned it could ever hope for. understanding this, i completely dismiss the anamosity and put it on my ignore list.

Preach on Doug, preach on. :thumb:

I'm passionate about this more than most, because I CARE about what may or may not happen to the Camaro when it returns....IF it returns.........

You are not the only one, DH. Since we usually agree on stuff like this, you have to realize that the people who really care are usually the most misunderstood by most. You're saying all the things I would be if I felt like getting into another arguement with the people here. Some, just don't get it. Keep it up. :thumb:

Doug, you need to read this. muckz, you also need to actually read what you write. if you're going to make a point, make sure it supports what you're arguing FOR and not AGAINST. because you basically took exactly what i and Aero said and shuffled the words around. the car is not marketed to you or Doug. get it?

Do you even read what you write?

IF this car is not marketed to us "wet dreamers" then WTF did they bother to use the Charger name?

If names don't matter...then why use the best of them?

You OBVIOUSLY dont give a rat's @$$ what they call the proposed Camaro.....so why are you even here?

Magnum "sedan" would not work either. the Magnum name is dedicated to the station wagon to avoid having it call that (since wagons have been given such a bad name in America because of the aformentioned American Land Barge (tm)). as by convention, the name decends from the sedan version to the wagon and not the other way around.

Oh for the love of God......This car is a DIRECT spin-off of the Magnum stationwagon (it is a stationwagon, no matter what Dodge tries to BS us about calling it something else....walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...IS a duck)...and it is a Magnum sedan.

Charger is then the other side to avoiding calling the Magnum station wagon a station wagon. Charger is a cool name that is being placed on an equally cool car deserving of the name. that's how "Charger" will help sell more cars.

Please read what you write.....Why is Charger a "cool name"?!? Because it USED to be a cool car. They used the Charger name to try and re-capture some of that "cool"....but put it on a plain jane vanilla 4 door sedan...you don't see the irony? There is NO other possible rational....

it took me a while to understand why all the anamosity toward the Charger (and GTO before it). but i see it now. there are still some old timers around that fell in love with some cars of their teenaged wet dreams, though there is nothing wrong with this part.

The musclecar era was not a "wet dream"....you should be ashamed of this stupid reference and it pisses me off. The musclecar era BELONGS to us "Oldtimers" not the wanna-bees thinking the world revolves around them. WE get pissed off when names that built Detroit into the home of speed get whored out to undeserving, un-related cars.....

BUT, the names of these cars on anything BUT the exact cars these people fell in love with is plain WRONG in their mind. possibly more wrong than to make out with one's sister (not a redneck pun, just making a point).

A new low as to personal attacks on this board.....you're a real piece of work....you certianly DON'T belong here.

it's useless to spend any time arguing with this type of blind, irrational FEELING and emotion that these people have for a name. the name itself carry's more value than the original car that spawned it could ever hope for. understanding this, i completely dismiss the anamosity and put it on my ignore list.

If names don't matter...then WTF are you argueing with me for?

But run off and hide from your pathetic attacks and pathetic attempts at coming up with an adult, rational debate. Typical childish attitude....drop a troll bomb and then proclaim that you're moving on....don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out.

Here's another version I found...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/hemiman876/hemiman_charger_srt8.jpg

I am with Doug...

Part (a BIG part) of the muscle car dna was a coupe body. This aint a charger.

Here's another version I found...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/hemiman876/hemiman_charger_srt8.jpg

Charlie.....are those "Official" drawings of the Charger SRT 8 or just wishful Photoshoping?

IF....and that's a big IF, these are official, then I can accept those as legit uses of the name....

Charlie.....are those "Official" drawings of the Charger SRT 8 or just wishful Photoshoping?

IF....and that's a big IF, these are official, then I can accept those as legit uses of the name....


No, not official. Just someone PS-ing. However, some good sources keep insisting that a 2 door version of the Charger is in the pipeline.

Doug, you need to read this. muckz, you also need to actually read what you write. if you're going to make a point, make sure it supports what you're arguing FOR and not AGAINST. because you basically took exactly what i and Aero said and shuffled the words around. the car is not marketed to you or doug. get it?

Magnum "sedan" would not work either. the Magnum name is dedicated to the station wagon to avoid having it call that (since wagons have been given such a bad name in America because of the aformentioned American Land Barge (tm)). as by convention, the name decends from the sedan version to the wagon and not the other way around. Charger is then the other side to avoiding calling the Magnum station wagon a station wagon. Charger is a cool name that is being placed on an equally cool car deserving of the name. that's how "Charger" will help sell more cars.

it took me a while to understand why all the anamosity toward the Charger (and GTO before it). but i see it now. there are still some old timers around that fell in love with some cars of their teenaged wet dreams, though there is nothing wrong with this part. BUT, the names of these cars on anything BUT the exact cars these people fell in love with is plain WRONG in their mind. possibly more wrong than to make out with one's sister (not a redneck pun, just making a point). it's useless to spend any time arguing with this type of blind, irrational FEELING and emotion that these people have for a name. the name itself carry's more value than the original car that spawned it could ever hope for. understanding this, i completely dismiss the anamosity and put it on my ignore list.


I am not as passionate as Doug because I didn't grow up with muscle cars around me, but I still think the Charger name is not for this car. The reasons for using the Charger name are marketing, nothing more. And that's what some of us do not like.

And while we are quoting things,
The Charger is being marketed to the general populous that has little idea of the ties the name has to a relatively obsucre muscle car that hasn't been produced in 30+ years!
-- Great! That's what you said, later I said that, and that's what others said before or after or in-between. We do agree on the above. But if the Charger is being marketed to the general populace, why use the name? General populace does not care what it is called. The ones who care are Charger fans, or "fanatics" as you put it. And herein is the logical fallacy that i adhered to previously.


And so for someone advocating keeping a lid on emotions, you certainly fail. You get pissed off at posts that challange whatever you write, and you retaliate with phrases like "wet-dreams", and references to reading comprehension. :rolleyes:

edit: and I think that you actually do not understand the animosity of what is being said. We like these cars. I like GTO. I like DMX's LX-based cars, including Magnum, 300. I think this upcoming Charger will also be a good car. But, these cars could wear different names, which would cause no controversies or ill feelings. And this is what people like Doug and I are saying.

Do you even read what you write?

IF this car is not marketed to us "wet dreamers" then WTF did they bother to use the Charger name?

If names don't matter...then why use the best of them?

You OBVIOUSLY dont give a rat's @$$ what they call the proposed Camaro.....so why are you even here?
calm down for a split second, now forget about Charger, your car. now think about the word "charger". if you look up synonims you'll find things that allude to power and being on the forefront of something. now ask yourself, why a car with 340 HP, good reflexes, (subjective) good looks or at least looks alluding to power, a flamboyant SEDAN of all things, in a segment dominated by boring mommy cars, should/would NOT be called a "Charger"???

as far as me being "here", i'm obviously an AUTOMOTIVE enthusiast. anything having to do with automobiles concerns me. this is one of THE BEST sites on the net for future vehicles PERIOD. but this isn't the only auto related site i visit. if you think elitists/purists like you are the only people entitled to visit/post on a car specific message board, then YOU are the one who doesn't belong here.

this is besides the fact that i actually own and drive a Camaro.


Oh for the love of God......This car is a DIRECT spin-off of the Magnum stationwagon (it is a stationwagon, no matter what Dodge tries to BS us about calling it something else....walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...IS a duck)...and it is a Magnum sedan.


OF COURSE it's true... but just TRY and call something a station wagon... TODAY... and get away with it. it's not the Malibu wagon, its the Malibu MAXX, it's not a Caddy tall station wagon, it's the SRX. see what i'm saying? it's common knowledge.


Please read what you write.....Why is Charger a "cool name"?!? Because it USED to be a cool car. They used the Charger name to try and re-capture some of that "cool"....but put it on a plain jane vanilla 4 door sedan...you don't see the irony? There is NO other possible rational....

i already pointed out why above.


The musclecar era was not a "wet dream"....you should be ashamed of this stupid reference and it pisses me off. The musclecar era BELONGS to us "Oldtimers" not the wanna-bees thinking the world revolves around them. WE get pissed off when names that built Detroit into the home of speed get whored out to undeserving, un-related cars.....

fine it belongs to you. nobody disputes that. unfortunatly we are living TODAY and not 30 years ago. so why don't you step out of the time warp and join us here. you'll be shocked to find out that you are the one acting like the world owes you something.


A new low as to personal attacks on this board.....you're a real piece of work....you certianly DON'T belong here.

fine, take what i say and corrupt it and turn it around on me. i was actually empathizing with you at that point. i was understanding how strong you felt the whole situation was wrong. but you obviously don't understand the meaning of empathy or you would have recognized it for what it is.


If names don't matter...then WTF are you argueing with me for?
defending my point of view.

But run off and hide from your pathetic attacks and pathetic attempts at coming up with an adult, rational debate. Typical childish attitude....drop a troll bomb and then proclaim that you're moving on....don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out.
i'm filing this under nonsense.

This will make everyone feel better....


http://intrepidatious.dodgeintrepid.net/pics/06charger_dukes.jpg

calm down for a split second, now forget about Charger, your car. now think about the word "charger". if you look up synonims you'll find things that allude to power and being on the forefront of something. now ask yourself, why a car with 340 HP, good reflexes, (subjective) good looks or at least looks alluding to power, a flamboyant SEDAN of all things, in a segment dominated by boring mommy cars, should/would NOT be called a "Charger"???


i'm filing this under nonsense.

See you answered your own point......come back when you have a REAL answer. :rolleyes:

This will make everyone feel better....


http://intrepidatious.dodgeintrepid.net/pics/06charger_dukes.jpg

LOL! That's much better!

Need to get rid of the side windows to allow for quick entry and exit with out the use of the door.

IF this car is not marketed to us "wet dreamers" then WTF did they bother to use the Charger name?

"Wet Dreamers" (and this will probally get me in trouble, but let's be honest):

1. Won't buy anything besides the original, won't give anything but the original the benefit of the doubt, and finally by the very fitting term "wet dreamers" have a distorted view of the original car's actual history and place in the market in it's day.

2. Make up such a miniscule segment of the market that going after them is basically a great way to lose a great amount of money.


You OBVIOUSLY dont give a rat's @$$ what they call the proposed Camaro.....so why are you even here?

I honestly don't care either & I'm on my THIRD Camaro. And I AIN'T going nowhere! :p

Calling the 2007 Chevrolet performance coupe the Camaro isn't a done deal. The Camaro name may go on an entirely different RWD platform. If I were rabidly giving a rat's a** about the name on this upcoming Zeta coupe, I'd look like a big dummy if the name showed up on a different, more sporty chassis. Especially if the performance coupe was a great car in it's own right.


Oh for the love of God......This car is a DIRECT spin-off of the Magnum stationwagon (it is a stationwagon, no matter what Dodge tries to BS us about calling it something else....walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...IS a duck)...and it is a Magnum sedan.

And Camaro was a Nova. The 3rd & 4th gens are an evolution of a 1971 Chevy Vega. Charger was a Coronet, Mustang was a lowly Falcon, GTO was a midsized Tempest. It's all styling & marketing.



Please read what you write.....Why is Charger a "cool name"?!? Because it USED to be a cool car. They used the Charger name to try and re-capture some of that "cool"....but put it on a plain jane vanilla 4 door sedan...you don't see the irony? There is NO other possible rational....

I thought the CTS looked ridiculous till I saw it in real life. The Colorado looked like a transformer till I saw it in real life. You should rarely make judgements based on photos, and NEVER make them based on drawings. Remember those really sleek and agressive drawings of the Chevrolet Malibu GM released a months before it was introduced?


The musclecar era was not a "wet dream"....you should be ashamed of this stupid reference and it pisses me off. The musclecar era BELONGS to us "Oldtimers" not the wanna-bees thinking the world revolves around them. WE get pissed off when names that built Detroit into the home of speed get whored out to undeserving, un-related cars.....

I'd consider myself an old timer (just don't ask how old....please. :)).

My dad had a '62 Impala SS when I was growing up, I remember when my uncle got his new '68 Camaro. A friend up the street from me had a '70 GTO. One of my cousins had a '69 Torino GT 390. Cobra Jet I believe. I got my drivers liscense just when Trans Ams became THE car in the '70s. I grew up with alot of legendary detroit iron around me.

I love cars from that era as much as you do. I'd sell body parts for a mint 454SS or a Ram Air '69 GTO or a Hemi Roadrunner (heck, I'd do it for a mint W72 T/A 6.6 '78 Trans Am!) . But at the same time, I'm very much aware what those cars were, and what made them great. It's surprisingly very little. Usually nothing more than a powerful engine, heavy duty shocks, and a catchy name.

You have to admit, we are in a golden age of performance cars today that's only going to get more intense & crowded in a few years.

What's really wrong with the Charger? It has 4 doors. Period. Unless the styling is ugly (again, we should save judgement till it's out... yes, even I'm hesitant about that front end) it's everything else the Charger was. Add hood scoops & subtract dealer greed, and the GTO measures up to every GTO in the past.


I see where you are coming from Doug, and I appriciate your devotion to a strict interpetation of a muscle car. I just take a different view. Although I'd always buy a coupe before a sedan (what's kept me out of a used V8 Lincoln LS and a '97 Impala SS), I realize that these cars are in fact modern muscle cars.

The new sleek GTO is currently the only car I see that may get me out of my tendancy of seemingly buying up every good Thunderbird Super Coupe with a manual tranny I come across. And if I end up in a position where I MUST buy a single vehicle roomier than my Camaro that the wife can drive with kids, I can still have an exciting pavement ripper with a little history behind it.

That's who the Charger is aimed at.

And if I end up in a position where I MUST buy a single vehicle roomier than my Camaro that the wife can drive with kids, I can still have an exciting pavement ripper with a little history behind it.

That's who the Charger is aimed at.

Amen to that! I like many had a few f-bodies, SN 95s, T-birds, GTP Ponchos, etc who's lives has changed. Having a baby and planning another has changed my priorities. I want a fast, good handling fun V-8 powered domestic RWD car, whether it be a coupe or a sedan. Of course, getting one, much less two infants into child safety seats makes getting a sedan more of a rational decision. I like the idea of a sub 30K four door sedan with 340 hp. Like it or hate it, I think the Charger will be a hit (like the 300C), and unlike the GTO. Lots of Gen Xers who need four doors. I plan on getting a Magnum (heaven forbid, a station wagon) or a Charger.

(what's kept me out of a used V8 Lincoln LS and a '97 Impala SS

That and the fact that they were making Tahoes and Surburbans in Arlington in 1997! :eek: ;)

Just jerkin' your chain Guy...

That and the fact that they were making Tahoes and Surburbans in Arlington in 1997! :eek: ;)

Just jerkin' your chain Guy...

Choke....gasp!

Loosen that chain. :lol:

it was supposed to have rear suicide doors that were small... and be like a coupe but with 4 doors. It might be a great car, but why are they calling it charger. A charger was not 4 doors. At least the "terrible" gto stayed with its root as a coupe.....


Agreed on that point. The Dodge Charger is supposed to be a manly-man's street-rod...not a soccer mom's way of lookin neato!

My biggest problem with it, and the GTO? These things arent muscle cars. Sure, they eat gas, put out 300-some odd ponies, and can haul ass...but look at the price. A muscle car is supposed to be an affordable rod. They shouldn't be offered with heated seats, with onstar navigation, with all these crazy electronical goodies. They should be offered with a damn good manual transmission and an upgraded suspension package. Christ, im reading a review of the GTO, and they say its transmission is a little lacking, but its back seat is comfortable? How can someone building a muscle car not cower in shame hearing that the car is more comfortable than performable? how?

These days, these cars...theyre american luxury cars with heritage names and american named engines. I mean, whats the back seat on a 'stang or an f-body? its nothing! lol. Well, stangs arent as bad as F-body's, but yeah.

Heh yeah, a 68 charger R/T500 is my dreamcar...426 hemi...A REAL HEMI...with a 4 speed hurst, pistol grip shifter...top banana yellow with black stripes. thats why I get so worked up over it all, lol.

BTW, i heard chevy plans on releasing the Chevelle SS on a GTO platform...saw pics somewhere...but yeah...

Dodge Salesman-

"On this side of the showroom we have the basic 300c powered by the 5.7 L Hemi. On the other side of the showroom we have the other 300C which is slightly faster and has charger written on the side..."


:rolleyes:

"Raw american muscle, Mom and Dad! just like when you were kids!"

its like when the white agent tells his black sports-star, "Here's yer check, Shaq! Go buy a neato sportscar! bling bling!"

courtesy of chris rock...

My biggest problem with it, and the GTO? These things arent muscle cars. Sure, they eat gas, put out 300-some odd ponies, and can haul ass...but look at the price. A muscle car is supposed to be an affordable rod.



While GTO isn't cheap, I don't think it is ridiculously priced either. Face the facts... the AVERAGE car sold today is around $28,000... GTO isn't a lot over that.


They shouldn't be offered with heated seats, with onstar navigation, with all these crazy electronical goodies.


You can not get heated seats, or OnStar on GTO... I wish you could though. And WHY?????? shouldn't they be on it? Because they didn't have heated seats and OnStar in 1966????? Well, they didn't have electronic fuel injection either... and power brakes and steering?? Should we make those optional at best??


They should be offered with a damn good manual transmission and an upgraded suspension package.


They do come with a good manual... it's the only option. and "upgraded" as opposed to what? There is only one suspension level on the car... and it is hardly a min-van in handling.



Christ, im reading a review of the GTO, and they say its transmission is a little lacking, but its back seat is comfortable? How can someone building a muscle car not cower in shame hearing that the car is more comfortable than performable? how?



And that is one reviewers thoughts, and at that he/she said the tranny was a "little" lacking... for all I know, that could be because of the CAGS, which has been with Camaor/Firebird/Corvette for YEARS. How many times have you read articles about how archaic and useless Camaro and Firebird were? Why don't you go drive the car yourself and make your own opinion instead of bashing the car because you are upset it has a confortable back seat! :confused: :rolleyes:

I like the GTO myself, if only it had four doors.

The musclecar era was not a "wet dream"....you should be ashamed of this stupid reference and it pisses me off. The musclecar era BELONGS to us "Oldtimers" not the wanna-bees thinking the world revolves around them. WE get pissed off when names that built Detroit into the home of speed get whored out to undeserving, un-related cars.....




Im glad it does "belong" to you....... Your Muscle car era and people your age destroyed the American automobile industry with unsafe, gas guzzling, rusting piles while still new on the dealers lot. The cars you love so much were junk. The rest of the world was building better cars while your generation just had to have bigger lower tech junk. Im ashamed that my Monaro has the GTO name on it. The Monaro deserves better than the GTO name.

Agreed on that point. The Dodge Charger is supposed to be a manly-man's street-rod...not a soccer mom's way of lookin neato!

My biggest problem with it, and the GTO? These things arent muscle cars. Sure, they eat gas, put out 300-some odd ponies, and can haul ass...but look at the price. A muscle car is supposed to be an affordable rod. They shouldn't be offered with heated seats, with onstar navigation, with all these crazy electronical goodies. They should be offered with a damn good manual transmission and an upgraded suspension package. Christ, im reading a review of the GTO, and they say its transmission is a little lacking, but its back seat is comfortable? How can someone building a muscle car not cower in shame hearing that the car is more comfortable than performable? how?

These days, these cars...theyre american luxury cars with heritage names and american named engines. I mean, whats the back seat on a 'stang or an f-body? its nothing! lol. Well, stangs arent as bad as F-body's, but yeah.

Heh yeah, a 68 charger R/T500 is my dreamcar...426 hemi...A REAL HEMI...with a 4 speed hurst, pistol grip shifter...top banana yellow with black stripes. thats why I get so worked up over it all, lol.

BTW, i heard chevy plans on releasing the Chevelle SS on a GTO platform...saw pics somewhere...but yeah...

1. Muscle cars were expensive.

Take car like the Monte Carlo. It starts off around, what? $20,000? Now imagine that same Monte Carlo with the top engine in SS form costing about $35-40,000. That's what was common with ALL muscle cars. Look up the base price of '69 Plymouth Satellite coupe. Then look up the price of a Road Runner with the Hemi. Do the same with the same year's Tempest coupe & GTO with top engine. There was a reason for the muscle car proliferation in the 60s. It was a way for auto companies to make alot of money on midsize cars. The notion that muscle cars were cheap when they were new is completely false.

2. Ironic that you read that the GTO's transmission is lacking, because it's drivetrain came directly out of a Corvette. Also, while most everything else in the car is Aussie made or sorced, the tranny is directly from GM-North America.

3. Exactly which muscle car are you refering to that has a navigation? I believe the new Corvette does, but I can't think of another.

4. If you think today's muscle cars eat gas, you're wrong. GTOs with 350 horses get 29 mpg with the manual, and the new 405 Horse 6 liter Vette should be about the same. Both are better mileage numbers than a V6 G35 or a 4 cylinder Honda S2000 if I'm not mistaken.

Interpreting a muscle car in the strict sense you are is impossible today.

A 96 Impala SS can be considered a muscle car. It was big & had a powerful V8, it was quick & looked like evil, despite it having 4 doors.

A 89-95 Thunderbird SC can be considered a muscle car. It was big, it was quick, it had an amazing-for-it's-day top speed, despite having a supercharged V6.

There are people on this site that consider a Camaro a muscle car. It's big in size (for today's market), no doubt quick, no doubt fast, but considering it a traditional muscle car is basically standing the concept on it's head.

In the 60s coupes were the core of the automotive market. Today coupes are barely a blip next to the sales figures of sedans. The car you choose as a favorite is a fantastic choice. Yet it's still a car made 35 years ago.

Corvettes, Mustangs, and in a way (since it's currently dead) Camaro are different. They all are unique cars that weren't simply rebadged, bigger engined versions of mainstream cars. They had their own style, their own market, and didn't look like a 2 door version of the car city employees drove on the job.

Also, we need to separate the name from the performance level based on it.

A Charger can be a 4 door since in real life since Charger was simply a 2 door Dodge Coronet. A Charger "Super Bee" can only be a coupe, since it was a special muscle version of the car. Just the like a Tempest, Torino, Chevelle, and Cutlass can be sedans, but "GTO","Torino Cobra", and "Chevelle SS" can only be coupes.

Dodge Salesman-

"On this side of the showroom we have the basic 300c powered by the 5.7 L Hemi. On the other side of the showroom we have the other 300C which is slightly faster and has charger written on the side..."


:rolleyes:

1. 300C is in the Chrysler showroom, not Dodge.

2. Pontiac Salesman-
"On this side of the showroom we have the basic Pontiac Firebird TransAm powered by the 5.7 LS1. On the other side of the showroom we have the other Pontiac Firebird Trans Am, which is marginally cheaper and has Camaro written on the side...

...but then, we have this Corvette that has the exact same engine as well as a 6 speed, is marginally quicker, has 2 seats, and is nearly $20,000 more."

:rolleyes: :no:

Im glad it does "belong" to you....... Your Muscle car era and people your age destroyed the American automobile industry with unsafe, gas guzzling, rusting piles while still new on the dealers lot. The cars you love so much were junk. The rest of the world was building better cars while your generation just had to have bigger lower tech junk. Im ashamed that my Monaro has the GTO name on it. The Monaro deserves better than the GTO name.


Ding ding ding......we have a winner!

You have officially won the award for the STUPIDEST FUGGIN' THING EVER WRITTEN ON THIS BOARD! :bow:

Now go play in the highway...... :death:

Ding ding ding......we have a winner!

You have officially won the award for the STUPIDEST FUGGIN' THING EVER WRITTEN ON THIS BOARD! :bow:

Now go play in the highway...... :death:


Does the truth hurt?

Is your Viagra not working... you old f--k

Why dont you wrap you lips around a ELAPHANTS CHODE AND SUCK UNTIL YOUR LUNGS FILL UP AND YOU DIE.

Your the "mature one" but you wine like 2 year old. All you do is byach and moan. I have a wife for that.

...Your the "mature one" ......

At least we agree on that point.......enjoy your "vacation"...... :rolleyes:

Unable to grasp the concept of sarcasm I see. Sad really.

Some people will not like DCX or GM or Ford using "old school" names of cars that were "cool" in another generation. I, for one, am just glad that American automakers are finally getting back to their roots and building rear wheel drive, V-8 powered automobiles. Whether they have two, four or five doors is immaterial to me. I just want something to satisfy my need for "fun" while providing basic transportation needs that fit my family. Am I 100% happy with the GTO? No, but I am glad it is back in the marketplace. If I could convince the wife, I would have one already. I was planning on buying a G35 sedan or a (gasp) BMW 3 series. I heard DCX was coming out with a new series of cars and I waited. I am glad I did, I want Dodge styling with 300C type mechanicals. The idea of a station wagon doesn't bother me, in fact it is growing on me. I drive a damn Matrix right now, so it can't be half bad compared to my stupid VVti rev my motor to 9K just to get some power. All I wanna see is RWD, V-8, good power to weight ratio, good handling and four doors and I am happy. And judging by DCX sales of the Hemi powered sedans and wagons, so are a lot of other people. So please people, put aside our petty squablling and be happy we are in the "golden age" of horsepower. I doubt my Dad's old 69 mustang with a 351C and a rock crusher would get 25 mpg much less 10 mpg while idling nicely and not overheating. Not to mention the terrible leaf springed rear which drifted all over the place and the also terrible drums which locked up and faded like crazy. Did I mention his mustang didn't have A/C. Line locks were cool, but in Hawaii humidity, AC is a necessity. A Dodge Sedan/Wagon equipped with a 5.7 liter Hemi would eat my dad's old mustang for lunch, idle like a sewing machine, return 15-20 mpgs, and outhandle, outbrake and wouldn't need me helping him tune the damn thing daily. :eek:

1. 300C is in the Chrysler showroom, not Dodge.

2. Pontiac Salesman-
"On this side of the showroom we have the basic Pontiac Firebird TransAm powered by the 5.7 LS1. On the other side of the showroom we have the other Pontiac Firebird Trans Am, which is marginally cheaper and has Camaro written on the side...

...but then, we have this Corvette that has the exact same engine as well as a 6 speed, is marginally quicker, has 2 seats, and is nearly $20,000 more."

:rolleyes: :no:
Where I live the dodge and chryslers are in the same showroom and the same salesmen sell both brands...
:rolleyes:
Well thanks for pointing that out...I was just making humour in how the dodge charger in the pic looks like the 300C.Yeah you're right about the camaro and trans-ams, they had good seperation in the bodies but the rest was identical. Would of been cool if they were more different from eachother.

Does the truth hurt?

Is your Viagra not working... you old f--k

Why dont you wrap you lips around a ELAPHANTS CHODE AND SUCK UNTIL YOUR LUNGS FILL UP AND YOU DIE.

That has to be one of the most juvenille things I have ever seen someone post on this message board. It was to the point of being utterly retarded. My 8 year old wouldn't even find that intelligent, funny or even remotely interesting.

Your the "mature one" but you wine like 2 year old. All you do is byach and moan. I have a wife for that.

Guys, I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS KIND OF BANTER ON THIS WEB SITE, MUCH LESS IN THIS FORUM. Don't start it and don't end it, because it will only wind up coming around to you in the end.

This goes for anyone, not just certain people. If you want to start a flame war, use e-mail.

That is such BS JASON. His comment about me waliking on to a HWY is ok?

He didnt like my comment about the GTO name and then attacked me. But Im the one who you have a problem with? Most of that mans posts are just plain silly. My post was to get a reaction out of him and I did.

That is such BS JASON.

Good grief...now you want to argue with ME.

It is not BS. Two wrongs don't make it right.

His comment about me waliking on to a HWY is ok?

Did I say what he said was okay? NO. How about you RE-READ my post? It was directed to more than just you.

He didnt like my comment about the GTO name and then attacked me. But Im the one who you have a problem with?

Yes I do. You know why? Because it is clear that it is YOU who wants to keep it going. His might have been insulting, yours was absolutely disgusting and vulgar. If you think that it is okay, even in response to an insult, you are dead wrong.

Most of that mans posts are just plain silly.

Yeah, and your's was a masterpiece?

My post was to get a reaction out of him and I did.

You got mine too. Hope you are satisfied. If you cannot control yourself, go to another site.

Once again, this goes for everyone here. I know that 99% of the people here have no problems with this, but evidently I have to keep repeating it for those who have a hard time understanding.

Here is a real good pic comparing the 66 vs the 06. Comparo (http://www.thehemi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1155)

Also, here are some different pictures of the 06. (http://community.webshots.com/album/197619877wkGaMF)