There is a contingent of people here that believe that everything GM (Chevrolet in particular) should "blow the doors" off of any car made by a competitor, especially Ford. I gotta disagree, and here's why.

First of all, the people making these demands aren't going to be the ones buying. Case in point, the Ford GT at $140,000. There are plenty of people with their panties in a bunch over the prospect of a $100,000 "Blue Devil" that will compete with the GT. Yet not one of those people are going to buy one.

If it was my career on the line, or my money being spent, and I had a choice of making a better $45,000 Corvette or $25-30,000 Camaro that actually makes money, or on some wet dream that's going to lose money, the wet dream looses. The only exception is if I was awash in money. Although the Ford GT will turn a tiny profit and the ME-fourtwelve will at least pay it's own way, they are still taking away money from someplace.

Second, is the different way GM does business. Ford or Chrysler are relatively small companies selling in large numbers, GM is a large company selling in large numbers.

A Ford car typically has a single design, marketing & support system and sells it in extremely large quanities. GM, to sell the same quanity or slightly more has to normally create 3 styles & market through 3 divisions along with it's support network. GM inheritly makes much less money selling the same chassis in the same quanity as Ford & Chrysler does. Therefore has less free money to splurge on things like Vipers & GTs.

Finally, the ultuimate question is WHY the need to do it in the 1st place?!

Why does a Corvette that traditionally has been a bargain sports car have to create a $100,000+ car just to sell a few & take a loss just for bragging rights? Corvettes already outperform cars costing twice as much, and sometimes more. Not one person makes a peep when Ferrari creates a car that outruns a Corvette. Ford does it (and prices it into the stratosphere as far as we're concerned), and a few of you loose your minds.

Camaro is another area some people have gone off the deep end and lost any resemblence of sanity. No less than once a month, someone pops up and says something to the effect of "the Corvette rule is stupid & should be changed, so Camaro can beat the Mustang Cobra" without realizing how stupid this sounds.

Why is it stupid?

Camaro of late has outrun comparatively priced Mustangs in performance. A $25,000 Mustang GT is going to be outrun by a $25,000 Camaro. Sounds good enough, right?

But because there is a $35,000+ Mustang that outruns a regular Corvette, instead of demanding a quicker regular Corvette (which Ford doesn't have), the issue becomes making a Camaro that's quicker than the Corvette sitting next to it in the showroom (despite the price & the fact they aren't going to buy it). To makes matters even more assinine, without fail, at least one bonehead will say (directly or indirectly) this 'quicker-than-Corvette' Camaro should be priced to compete with the Mustang GT.

A base 2 passenger, $45,000 regular Corvette should clearly outrun a 4 passenger $35,000 factory modified Mustang, but doesn't. If anything, ]THAT should bother us as CHEVY guys.

When it comes to Lightnings, or cars that don't mix up the showroom lineup, or vehicles that other divisions don't need more, then by all means, Go Chevy!

But Camaro has a place as does Corvette. Camaro is a sporty car for the masses, Z28 or SS (I'm not going to start THAT again) is the most performance for the dollar, and Corvette is the world class sports car you'll get when the kids finish school, the house is almost paid, and you have a few extra dollars to spend on a toy.

The Ford GT is a collector's item for wealthy car enthusiasts, not you. Get over it.


IF GM ever did decide to create a Ford GT competitor, Cadillac makes far better sense than the bargain basement high volume GM division of Chevrolet. When you get at that price level, a car like that will do far more for Cadillac than it ever would at Chevrolet. It might even make money!

Point is, there is no need to have something in every segment just to have it.

Chevrolet needs a Ford GT like it needs a hole in the head, meanwhile Cadillac desparately needs a GT-like sports car. Having a Camaro that can outrun a Corvette is just plain dumb.

If GM makes the LS7 standard on Corvette, that aleviates the problem... till the next Cobra R (Mustang GTS?) costing $50,000 or more comes along & outruns it (along with our $40,000 Camaro).

Then what??? Create a $50,000 Camaro that can beat it?

 

add to that list the HHR...please use your connections to stop that rolling abortion before a TPW is decided on

 

Chevy needs:


*Best in class trucks, with greater flexibility in powertrain choice, better exterior styling and far better interiors.

*An appealing crossover with a 3rd row seat and 7 passenger capacity.

* To offer a manual trans in cars like Malibu...regardless of what their market research tells them. (Let's restyle it while we're at it).

* A RWD sedan that competes toe to toe with 300/Magnum.

* A CAMARO..there I said it. CAMARO. A Camaro which is not a clone of GTO. A Camaro which reflects the dimensions and proportions of a 21st century "pony car".

*Stop benchmarking last gen competitors and try to leap frog forward for a change. We'll see how Cobalt does...it's coming afew years late to the party.

 

Arrgghh... did you have to point that out *squashed dreams* . The harsh reality really does suck, lol.

I'm with you 100%. Cadillac should get the exotic GT fighter, and chevy should stick to their ferrari matching bargain-oriented z06's. Just give me a bargain deal and let me worry about besting the GT's performance from there (aftermarket anyone??). Same with camaro. Make it a good bit faster than the mainstream mustangs (v6's and GT's) and don't worry about beating some sub-40k dollar limited edition mustang.

You want ultra performance? you'll have to pay for it. No freebies. Simple as that. You aren't going to get a 500hp ls7 z28 for 2Xk. Having said that, i'd be VERY happy with an ls2 z28 for under 28k .

 

GM's truck is pretty damn good. It gets best in class gas milage, as well as great power. Interior is one of the only downers of the line up. Take away the interior, and GM trucks are pretty damn good. Style is up to you. I love the new front end. Not too much like the Dodge, but not too soft like Ford.

I aslo agree that GM does NOT neeed an HHR. Worst move so far out of GM. Everything seems to be on the up and up...then this comes around.

 

With you on the interior. Biggest dissapointment imo. Looks like the forgot to update that part of the truck when they last redesigned the silverado in 99.

I wasn't a big fan of the newer chissled front end, but it has grown on me. Speaking of F-series front ends, see the new one on the new superduty. Soft it isn't .

 

I agree with part of Guy's assessment and disagree with another part.

First, a base Corvette should NEVER have anything to fear from any Mustang. If the performance numbers are close, and honestly the standing quarter mile and 0-60 times are usually the first things looked at, then the BASE Corvette needs more snot under the hood. I have one of the three rags which wrote up a review on the C6 and then the next story was the new Porsche 911. The Vette blew both models of 911 back onto the trailer for somewhere around 1/2 to 2/3 thirds of the $$$.

Z06's are a different car and SHOULD be equivalent or just slightly behind anything anyone else on the planet can build for 3 times as much money. That's the magic of the Corvette... all the performance for a third of the price. I think GM can give the GT a real run for it's money with the Z06 if the work is done right.

Camaro and Mustang are direct competitors. They define their market segment. Chevrolet should, WITHIN REASON, outperform the Mustang with the Camaro at ANY price point which does not then infringe on the Corvette.

So, if Ford makes a $40,000-$50,000 Mustang, Corvette should outperform it. If Ford makes a $25,000-$40,000 Mustang, a Camaro variant should outperform it but leave the more expensive cars to Corvette.

Corvette will crush any competitor at an equivalent price in a similar segment from a marketing and sales standpoint. The past victims include:
Mustang Cobra R (bad idea from the beginning)
Supra
RX-7 (notice the RX-8 doesn't even want to play ball any more)
300ZX (see Rx-7)
Porsche 944

If Ford wants to lock horns with the Vette instead of protecting core of their much larger Mustang market, I wish them luck but believe they're in for a world-class *** whoopin'. A $50,000 Mustang will go over like a fart in church.

Now, in any of the other segments where Ford and Chevrolet really competed relative to performance, there is no excuse for the Chevrolet not out-performing the Ford. The only one I really think matter besides the Corvette and the Camaro is performance trucks and the Silverado SS has been nothing short of a BIG disappointment vs. the Lightning. The SSR is the same thing. WTF WERE YOU THINKING???

Dammit, I don't understand why GM can't get this through their heads:

Go big or go home.

SSR should have NEVER hit the road without an LS6 under the hood (and THEN switched to the LS2). The Silverado SS should have had a blower on that 6.0 straight from the factory.

Lutz oughta know better. Chevrolet oughta know better. There's simply no excuse. When you LEAD the market, YOU GET TO CHARGE A PREMIUM FOR YOUR CARS.



The place where Guy and I really agree:

You want the huge horsepower??? Well you're gonna pay for it... and you're gonna pay for leather... and power windows... and heated seats... etc... etc... etc...

 

I agree with everything you said, but this.

Though literally the case (no one here is buying one), it was not created for the purpose of selling a handful of copies to the rich. By definition as a halo car, it is there to uplift the entire lineup, give stock holders and workers a sense of pride, and to make people feel good about Ford (and hopefully write about them in magazines)--all of those intangible things. Why else make such a car while going through financial pains? In all of those respects, the Ford GT (or any halo car) is for us.

You don't have to plot a big Super Bowl commercial just to make the rich guys aware you have new collectible for them!

I will fall back into agreement and say this should not be done "at all costs" and certainly not at the cost of the regular car lineup (including Camaro and Corvette).

 

I think Chevy needs to offer the perfromance stuff as a stand alone option instead of being bundeled it the top trim package. The "Texas Truck" package is the perfect example of what I mean. I'm not saying I want a striper SS, but Why not offer the SS packages on the avg Chevey trim instead the 100% fully loaded. I'm buying a new truck and I would have got a Silverado SS if I could have got the SS goodies on a Silverado LS instead to the fully loaded Silverado LT it is based on now.

I would also like it if engine were a single option like they are on trucks. Make the V8 a $1,050 option over the V6 in the Impala like they do in the Silverado.

 

Let me tell you something, GM is NOT going to match Ford in the truck performance category anytime this decade. I just got done reading about the 06 Lightning test mule (with pic) that OUT RAN BY A BUS LENGTH a C5 Z06 on the street. That's dang fast for a truck. I just don't think GM can compete in the truck performance market, IMHO.

 

Where is that article at? I would like to read it. I have always been a fan of the Lightning. The Silverado SS is a sorry excuse for a muscle truck......

 

I agree with your statement that GM won't outperform the lightning....can you please post the link to the 06 lightning?!?!

 

Linky

 

That's the first PX post I've agreed with in a long time and I'm glad it was that one.

And why should Cadillac get a high dollar performance car when it's Chevrolet that's known for performance? Let's not even go through the list that they've had. Cadillac is supposed to be luxury. So now they've made them faster and for what? I don't think the people buying them really care or want to drag race. All that performance would do wonders for Chevy. Give the people that wanna buy entry level or cheaper cars excitement too. If there is to be any GM supercar, it should be the Corvette. (and maybe some limited Camaros with the same engine, think ZL1) That's an intended performance car as is the Camaro. If F*rd has a high dollar supercar, so can Chevy. (but better)

 

Article? Don't you mean "post on another messageboard"? And where do you get "OUT RAN BY A BUS LENGTH a C5 Z06" from "I followed them all the way down veterans and even watched him stomp a white Z06"??? P-L-E-A-S-E!!! I'll give you that it was in fact a 06 Lightning test mule and the fact that the next Lightning is one badass truck. HOWEVER, how do we know the Z06 kill story is even legit? Did the Z06 guy even know the lightning was racing him? And what self respecting Z06 owner with half an ability to drive would even bite at a challenge from a pickup truck? No my friend, I know that part of the story is pure B.S. and I wasn't even there to verify it.

As for the subject hand... I agree mith most of what PacerX said. Scary, huh?