Latest facts, near certainties, and speculations on future cars

Just to post some info recently given OKs by alternative sources.

These are the facts:

*Bonneville is officially dead after model year 2005. At the moment, there is no intention of using the name in the future.

*Park Avenue is dead after model year 2005 as is LeSabre. Again, no future plans to use the name.

*The Cadillac DTS will be touched up and continue as front wheel drive in 2006.

*There will be a flagship Cadillac with a V12, though exactly when is uncertain.

* The next GTO was designed by Holden.


These are pretty certain, but I haven't had enough certainty to cast it in concrete just yet:

* GM has moved up the date of it's rwd Buick sedan from it's original fall 2007 intro.

* The body stampings of Holden's cars will be nearly identical to our Zeta sedans.

* GM's performance coupes will be out starting in 2007, vice 2008.

* Nomad won't be happening when the Solstice rolls out next year, if ever.


These fall under the heading of speculation (single somewhat informed sources) but doesn't fall under fact or certainty:

*GM's Zeta cars will be the biggest automotive startup in recent history, with 4 car lines nearly simultaneously begining production.

*Chevrolet's performance coupe will be somewhat more angular than Pontiac's or Buick's.

*Impala and LaCrosse may likely be the last of the FWD W-cars, and may also be likely to continue indefinately (well past 2010).

* Solstice will get a TURBO it's second year.

Speculations of others (here & elsewhere) that seem to be panning out:

*The next Grand Prix may be Pontiac's rear drive Zeta sedan.

*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive sedan.

*Cadillac DTS's assembly may be moved to another plant when it's redesigned.


There's plenty more, but can't post them for various reasons.

The next GTO designed by Holden and built in the US ?

* GM's performance coupes will be out starting in 2007, vice 2008.


2007 as 2008 MY or 2006 as 2007MY?

Good new for the most part. I especially like the parts about cadillac getting a v12 and the Solstice getting a turbo its second year.

Speaking of years, is the solstice going to come out anytime this decade??

2007 as 2008 MY or 2006 as 2007MY?

I think he meant 2007 release as a 2008 model year.

2007 as 2008 MY or 2006 as 2007MY?

Initially moved to the 2008 model year. Now seems moved back to 2007 model year.

..Speaking of years, is the solstice going to come out anytime this decade??

Solstice officially is coming out next fall as a 2006 model.

It was bulldozed through, was one of the 1st cars to used GM's new and latest supercomputer design & engineering methods that cut development time to a fraction of the "old" way, had Vice Chairman Lutz run blocker against all politics, created new ways of streamlining product development by doing away with alpha builds as well as other methods, and represents the absolute quickest GM can now develop a new model from idea to production.... in nearly FOUR years! :rolleyes:

As a yardstick, that's roughly the length of time it took the slow lumbering GM to develop their smaller B body in the 70s and the all new 3rd gen Camaro in the late 70s from scratch with prehistoric computers and the old way of doing things. :no:

It seems like GM is going to be late to market with there RWD Cars. Crysler, Dodge, Infinity, Mazda and otheres will all have a RWD sedan, coupe or both in some cases. GM has Caddy but that is moving out of the price range of most. Doesn't this hurt them in the short to medium term. By the time GM has interesting products to buy everyone will have already had there interesting products out and proven by then.

My second concer in that when GM releases the new cars the intrest rates will be higher on car loans. The US public cant keep buying cars like they have been for the past 3 years its going to slow down.

Originally posted by Guoin

Solstice officially is coming out next fall as a 2006 model.

It was bulldozed through, was one of the 1st cars to used GM's new and latest supercomputer design & engineering methods that cut development time to a fraction of the "old" way, had Vice Chairman Lutz run blocker against all politics, created new ways of streamlining product development by doing away with alpha builds as well as other methods, and represents the absolute quickest GM can now develop a new model from idea to production.... in nearly FOUR years!

As a yardstick, that's roughly the length of time it took the slow lumbering GM to develop their smaller B body in the 70s and the all new 3rd gen Camaro in the late 70s from scratch with prehistoric computers and the old way of doing things.

By the time Solstice hits the streets, it will seem like it has been out for years - same problem as the SSR. It's already yesterdays news. It would have been better to keep them tightly under wraps, then they wouldn't loose their freshness by the time they seep through the GM production process. It doesn't look like a new for 07 "Camaro" will suffer from the overexposure though - since it apparently isn't coming back, officially.

The timeline comparison between the old methodologies and new efficiencies in churning out new cars is so funny....., I want to cry.

The timeline comparison between the old methodologies and new efficiencies in churning out new cars is so funny....., I want to cry.

You need to appreciate the vast difference in content between the old cars and the new cars to accurately gauge this.

Cars are vastly more complex, much more thoroughly tested, lighter, safer, faster, more efficient and less costly than before.

That all takes time...

By the time Solstice hits the streets, it will seem like it has been out for years - same problem as the SSR. It's already yesterdays news.

I agree. The first time I ever saw an SSR in person was last September. My first thought was "eh, that's kind of neat." I mean, I had seen a million pictures of the thing at that point, so it was nothing special by then.

It was bulldozed through, was one of the 1st cars to used GM's new and latest supercomputer design & engineering methods that cut development time to a fraction of the "old" way, had Vice Chairman Lutz run blocker against all politics, created new ways of streamlining product development by doing away with alpha builds as well as other methods, and represents the absolute quickest GM can now develop a new model from idea to production.... in nearly FOUR years! :rolleyes:

As a yardstick, that's roughly the length of time it took the slow lumbering GM to develop their smaller B body in the 70s and the all new 3rd gen Camaro in the late 70s from scratch with prehistoric computers and the old way of doing things. :no:


This is primarily the result of the death of personal responsibility in our society :mad: GM is just trying to avoid getting sued.

originally posted by PacerX
You need to appreciate the vast difference in content between the old cars and the new cars to accurately gauge this.

Cars are vastly more complex, much more thoroughly tested, lighter, safer, faster, more efficient and less costly than before.

That all takes time...

I certainly wouldn't argue any of that and agree wholeheartedly. I was merely bemoaning the timeframe within the context of Guy's post.

guionM , any Colorado news/Rumors? It seems now that a V8 fits, I'm hoping Colorado either gets a V8 or a Diesel. With the HUMMER H3 now on the GMT-355 platform I would think that HUMMER fans would want more power than 220HP

I certainly wouldn't argue any of that and agree wholeheartedly. I was merely bemoaning the timeframe within the context of Guy's post.

I agree. Obviously those other parts are very important - crash testing etc - but after 2-3 years of seeing a car before it comes out, it just looses some of its' appeal. The C6 was first leaked around Christmas time, and it's rolling out now, only about 8 months later. Would have been nice to see Solstices running around 8 months after initial preview.

I like the DTS staying fwd. Caddy will have both the CTS and STS for younger drivers (under 100 years old) who want something sporty, and the DTS is still selling very well for never really getting a make over. I'd guess its a pretty good cash cow.

* Solstice will get a TURBO it's second year.
:D :D :D

originally posted by Guoin
*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive sedan.


I don't really see too much backlash on this one. Most of the "real" Monte purists are already p****d that the car went FWD and have been since 95; and the rest of the buying public don't care and seem really indifferent to the car excepting the polarized views on the front vs rear end styling.

A change to a 4 door may not be much of an issue. Done right, the purists would be so happy for the return to RWD they may not even notice the extra doors:-).

Myself though, I'd prefer naming it Impala, Caprice or Bel Air since these are traditional Chevy big car names.

*There will be a flagship Cadillac with a V12, though exactly when is uncertain.

* Solstice will get a TURBO it's second year.

:metal: :metal: As long as that Cadillac isn't an Escalade.

*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive sedan.


:confused: Going straight from FWD coupe to RWD sedan? Wow...

Although I think its great that its going back to RWD, a 4-door Monte Carlo just seems very odd to me...but so does a FWD one..sooo....

Sounds like good news :)

will the monte have 4 full doors (like a normal sedan) or 2 small suicide doors like RX8 (or something similar to that setup)?

*Bonneville is officially dead after model year 2005.

I guess the GXP isn't going to last long, thats ashame, its a awesome looking 4-door. It reminds me of the soooo -many other GM models that they finally get it right and then kill it.

*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive sedan. :no:

At least I hope not! I think Caprice or Impala will fit better, as a name of a RWD 4door sedan.

Sounds like good news :)

will the monte have 4 full doors (like a normal sedan) or 2 small suicide doors like RX8 (or something similar to that setup)?

Remember, that's still in the "speculation-that-seems-to-be-panning-out" section. We aren't going to know anything like that till we get towards a year or so before it's out.

A side note to the speculation section. It seems that both Pontiac and Buick will be a 2 for 1 deal. Buick looses both Park Avenue & LeSabre while Pontiac fuses together it's Grand Prix & Bonneville in favor of a single rwd sedan.

I guess the GXP isn't going to last long, thats ashame, its a awesome looking 4-door. It reminds me of the soooo -many other GM models that they finally get it right and then kill it...

...At least I hope not! I think Caprice or Impala will fit better, as a name of a RWD 4door sedan.

The Bonneville GXP (as well as the V8 FWD Grand Prix) is actually something of a transition car to it's replacement. Unlike some of GM's other examples, this car actually seems in line to be replaced with something better.

As for the Impala name, we're still in speculation mode here. :)

Pontiac fuses together it's Grand Prix & Bonneville in favor of a single rwd sedan.


The RWD G8 (or whatever it'll end up being called)....will replace both the GP and Bonneville.

*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive sedan.
:confused: Going straight from FWD coupe to RWD sedan? Wow...

Well at least he didn't say,

*The next Monte Carlo may be Chevrolet's rear drive coupe.

:D

What would be nice is if...
Impala/Caprice is a Zeta 4dr sedan
Monte is a Zeta 4dr "quad coupe" like Ion/RX8.
Camaro is a Zeta 2dr coupe.

Wow, I haven't really considered Chevy in my future new car plans after college, but a rwd solstice with a turbo sounds really nice :D

Well at least he didn't say,

:D

Oh yea...I'm torn :(

Wow, I haven't really considered Chevy in my future new car plans after college, but a rwd solstice with a turbo sounds really nice :D

:eek: :confused:

Well it wasn't one of my choices for my first new car. However, there are a lot of new and exciting cars coming out, I've just always been a fan of turbocharged vehicles. Thats an area that GM hasn't covered much of lately.

Well it wasn't one of my choices for my first new car. However, there are a lot of new and exciting cars coming out, I've just always been a fan of turbocharged vehicles. Thats an area that GM hasn't covered much of lately.

I think he was referring to the fact that you said Chevy. The Solstice is Pontiac, not Chevy.

I think he was referring to the fact that you said Chevy. The Solstice is Pontiac, not Chevy.

Ah, oops my bad. Sorry, I have a tendency to see all products made by parent companies as the same. :D

:metal: :metal: As long as that Cadillac isn't an Escalade.

I'm betting that the 'sclade will be getting the V12. If it's a version of the XV12 that the Cien had, then it would be natural. Of all the Cadillacs available, which one do you think they make the most profit off of? Maybe the one that is based off a Tahoe/Suburban? They said the XV12 was about the length of a Chevy big block and it looks to me that the BBC fits nicely in my dad's suburban.

I do agree that a V12 CAR would be awesome to see from GM!

Actually, no one mentioned Cobalt......that is, in my opinion, the fastest vehicle to come thru the system. Less than two years.

One last thing.......you might be forgetting that while the Solstice was shown in Detroit at NAIAS......but it wasn't given the greenlight for sometime after the show......same for the SSR........

Actually, no one mentioned Cobalt......that is, in my opinion, the fastest vehicle to come thru the system. Less than two years.
That being the case; then I guess anything is possible. :D

Still keeping the faith Red! :thumb:

I'm betting that the 'sclade will be getting the V12. If it's a version of the XV12 that the Cien had, then it would be natural. Of all the Cadillacs available, which one do you think they make the most profit off of? Maybe the one that is based off a Tahoe/Suburban? They said the XV12 was about the length of a Chevy big block and it looks to me that the BBC fits nicely in my dad's suburban.

I do agree that a V12 CAR would be awesome to see from GM!

It would still be cool to see an XV12 Escalade...just not :metal: worthy :D

Actually, no one mentioned Cobalt......that is, in my opinion, the fastest vehicle to come thru the system. Less than two years.

One last thing.......you might be forgetting that while the Solstice was shown in Detroit at NAIAS......but it wasn't given the greenlight for sometime after the show......same for the SSR........


So that brings a finer point to the issue. The problem isn't that GM can't create a new car in 18-24 months. It's that GM can't decide to create a car and get it out quickly.

Cavalier needed to be replaced, and GM mobilized to do it. In the 1970s, GM needed to meet CAFE, so it mobilized to get downsized B-bodies to market.

But when it comes to halo cars, or vehicles that while potential profit makers, don't have production figures with 6 digits (or at least upper 5's), it seems that there's a tendancy to bury them.

That would seem to put the problem squarely on the approval process, not the actual engineering and development, nes pas? :think: