My current Z28 just turned over 142,000 miles, making it the 3rd car I've gotten up that high, and the 3rd car I've personally put in excess of 100,000 miles on.

Since it's likely Camaro owners will look at their car less as an applience and more as a long term investment than the Impala or Malibu owner, here are some things I hope Chevy keeps for the next Camaro and things I think Chevrolet needs to copy Ford in (both have things they do better than the other guy).

1. GM makes awesome airconditioners! My other 2 cars needed AC maintence by 80,000 miles. The AC in my 1st SC went out at 100,000 and never ran right for any length of time afterwards. My Mustang's lasted till 185,000, but it needed regular maintence. My Camaro's hasn't needed a thing. The '93 I had also had a great AC. It had 143,000 miles when I sold it. Make the gen5 AC as good.

2. The Camaro interiors do just so-so over time. The plastic scratches easier than the Mustangs or MN12 T-Birds I owned. Also, Camaro's carpet tends to wear out quicker than my Fords did. I have a spot by the accelerator where the carpet wore through. Never happened on my Stangs or even both SCs. I'd like to see that changed with better material.

3. Camaro's fuel guage is a JOKE!!! There should be a label on it that should read "For Entertainment Purposes Only!". I get about 250+ miles on the 1st half tank, 50-70 miles on the 3rd quarter, and roughly 10-20 miles on the final quarter tank of gas. The only cars I ever accidently ran out of gas in were my 2 4th gen Camaros. While reaching "E" on Camaro's fuel guage means you must have borrowed gas from somewhere, "E" on Fords mean you might consider getting gas at the next town... or state (Ford's guages actually go well below "E" before they get empty). On a Mustang, that's over 50 miles. On a T-bird, that's 70. I've tried it out on both.

4. The LT1 is more durable than my Bird's supercharged 6, but worse than my 5.0 V8s. The Bird's was my fault (added a smaller pulley and raised top without increasing the exhaust volume and blew the gaskets after killing too many Mustangs & ricers). But I still think the LT1 itself is pretty strong. But it's no where near as well built as the old 5.0 was. The 5.0 performed flawlessly till I blew a gasket at 185,000. Even then, I was still able to drive it home, and to the repair shop the next day. The water pump on my LT1 went out at around 100,000 and a vaccum leak developed at 120K.

5. Seems GM purposely designs some things to break . The clutch in my '85 Mustang lasted from the time I got it at 70,000 till I overhaules the tranny at 185,000 miles. The clutch in my 1st Thunderbird SC was never changed while I owned it (up to 142,000 mile). Yet my Z28's clutch disentergrated at about 50,000 miles! The alternator on my Mustang was still going when I sold it at 220,000. The SC's alternator lasted till 135,000. My Camaro's went out at 50,000. It's not an isolated event. My dad's 2 year old Silverado saw it's alternator go south at just 40,000 miles! And don't let me get started about the power window motor. I'd like to see the next Camaro do alot better.

6. The Camaro seems to have better leather. I've seen plenty of Ford leather interiors that seem to crack or split after about 5 years, especially in Cal-Ariz-Nev area & Hawaii. But my Camaro's leather looks as good as it did when I bought the car. I also can't recall the last bad GM leather interior I saw that dated from the 90s onward.

7. GM has better stereos. Ford's actually do seem to have better sound quality, and I've heard plenty of stories about how fragile GM's speakers are, but from personal experience, GM's stereos seem to last alot longer than Ford's, and have less things go wrong. This is not to say that GM's sound isn't very good, it's just that Ford's seems a bit better. But at least I won't have to replace Camaro's stereo after 5-7 years.

Overall, I have to say that although I thought my Z28 was a piece of crap from the time I picked it up at 35,000 miles (& the fuel pump went out 3 weeks later, followed shortly by the power window motor, then a few months later the clutch and a parade of items every few months or so) till about 110,000, it has given me no real problems since then & it's been over a year since anything went wrong with the car (last item, front wheel bearings in the spindle assembly), so I feel alot more positive about the Camaro.

Summary, after driving both brands for so many miles, I can say that while Ford tends to have far fewer, but more expensive or substantial repairs over extended time, GM seems to deluge you with nickel and dime stiff that shouldn't be an issue that falls just under the "you have got to be kidding me" price threshold.

If GM gets a handle on these things (and stops designing certain thinsg to break) the next Camaro will be a great car for years to come.

 

GM leather? I thought that stuff wore out quickly..
We were looking at a used Avalnche, and the previous owners really worn thru the leather badly....


I was feeling positive about my 99 Z28 until the rear blew out on the street and cracked the housing at about 40k miles.. just went I started to comment how reliable that car was.. lol


The squeeks and rattles drive me crazy, especially with the windows up and radio's down in our f-bod's.. When I'm really "driving" it though I don't notice.. Its those moments when I'm tired from a night out and driving back home slowly and quietly, when it bothers me..

My 6 speed makes some worrysome "clunks" between shifts occasionally, especially during warm up.. But I'm pretty sure a new trans mount, and clutch assmebly will solve all that...

 

My friend brian and a MACH460 sound system in his 95 cobra.... I have yet to hear a factory sound system sound as loud and as clear.

only problem with that though, was that when he had a minor wreck, the whole system shorted out....

but still, tearin up the streets and blasting some heavy @ss rock in that thing was the BEST.... those were the times that got me into bad-@ss cars.

 

Amen. 7 years and running strong!

EDIT: I live in Florida, so this really, really, REALLY means a whole lot to me.

 

For the record, both my 4th gens munched A/C compressors before 70k miles. There were NO other problems with them...But I live in Florida too...No air sucks. And because of the horridly crowded engine bay, replacement was quoted at minimum $1k for either one. (The first was a 94 LT1, the second a 98 LS1)

 

I have only used the air conditioner 4 times in all my 5 years of driving Its never a problem with me. Only used it in my Z once because it was raining and the windows were fog'n up and it was pretty hot out to not have the windows down. But you live in Cali so I can see how A/C is more of an issue for you.

I can't say enough about how crappy the plastic is . Seems beyond 2nd rate, its like...3rd world countryish, if not worse. I like the carpet though. We might have different carpets but mine seems very heavy duty and has no wears on it even though I don't use floor mats.

Agreed. Except for me its opposite on the last half. It goes for about 10-20 miles on the 3rd quarter and 50ish on the last. With about 3/4 of a gallon left after E. My uncles Taurus seems like it still has a quarter left after E...always loved that about Fords.

 

The leather is only good until you compare it to something else. I have Audi A6 with 155,000 miles and the leather in it is immaculate. My fbody at 120K miles had folds and worn out parts (mostly in the folds).

Not to turn this into "the problems I had" thread, but I think it's unanimous that rear ends have to be addressed. I snapped mine stock at 55K miles, supposedly by drifting corners as was explained to me by the dealer.

Water pump blows. Replaced mine twice. This can be generalized under accessories. While the engines seem good, accessories (water pump, alternator, etc) are quite a pain in the neck in terms of longetivity and reliability.

Spark plugs/wires access ... well, who am I kidding, there was no access.

Now, some <strike>great</strike> good things about it...

Mine did not have any rattles beyond windows, which was fixed (albeit painfully) by readjusting the window aligners.

The only squeek I had was coming from the rear suspension, and was probably caused by worn out bushings.

The position of pedals was great. I could break and press accelerator at the same time while shifting gears on turns.

100,000 mile spark plugs

Overall reliability - not bad, started every time (cold, hot).

 

is that ever true. My '92 1500 has 183k and the ac has never been touched. it get used regularly and works flawlessly.

well if you are curious here's a list of non 'regular maintainance' failures on my truck:
-brake master cylinder, went south at about 175k
-intake manifold gasket, just replaced at 180k
-cruise control, hasnt worked since sometime before 160k... idk when exactly


otherwise, im proud to own a 12 year old vehicle with 183k miles, that still rides nice, runs and starts good, is completely original, and doesnt burn even a trace of oil!!

 

I think you will see alot of variations in reliability issues. My 2 LT1s have had very little problems. My first LT1 was in B-Body form and I drove it until about 135,000 miles. Had the Opti and waterpump reworked at 70K and the fuel pump went out at 130K, and somewhere inbetween, a header bolt broke causing a minor exhaust leak when the engine was cold, as it got hot the header expanded and sealed the leak. Other than those few problems it was an awesome car. Interior held up excellent, no holes no rips in anything.

My F-Body LT1 has so far been excellent. Getting ready to turn over to 80K, the only problem was the fuel pump went at just 45K. Lessons learned from my previous LT1 was the waterpump and opti. If the waterpump starts to go then it will ruin the opti. I've been using special additive to help the waterpump live longer, and it seems to be helping. But I always keep my eye out for any leakage or dripping.

Interior: I got a huge rip in the leather side bolster on my driver's seat. Leather is low grade compared to other GM cars. Carpet is starting to get a small hole up near the gas pedal. Camaro carpet is Cavalier grade carpet The carpet in my B-Body was alot more durable. My car is pretty much squeak and rattle free, except when the rear removeable panel that covers the spare tire comes loose every once and a while and the plastic retaining bolts rattle against something when they are loose. Which is a quick fix, but it shouldn't be happening. Also I have a minor squeak in the rear suspension, but only when it is cold outside, and when I hit a big bump or hole.
Overall thats not too bad, I guess every car has its weakness. I am impressed with the durability of the LT1 because with both the old Caprice and now with the Camaro I put them through the paces on a daily basis.

Air Conditioners: Never had a single problem with a GM A/C Ford A/Cs always die early it seems, and even when they are working they definently don't cool down like GM A/Cs.

Sound Systems: IMO GM has some excellent sound systems, I think Delco/Bose has Ford sound systems beat easy, as far as sound quality goes.

 

100,000 mile spark plugs are the biggest joke. I replaced mine at 50,000 and they were junk. I felt horrible about leaving them in for so long.

Someone else said Spark Plug/Wires access. It is true that access to the plugs and wires is horrible, but with a little tip here and there from the buds on this board things are a little easier.


The A/C in my old 95 Camaro (6 cyl) was a joke. Never would cool the car down. The A/C in my 2000 Z28 will numb your body

Interior noise/Rattles in the 95 was much worse than the 2000. I hope the new Camaro is even better

Transmission needed rebuild at 50k miles on my 95. *Everything* on my 2000 is still in top shape at 65k miles. Yes, I treat her like a baby but do 'get on it' from time to time.

Here is my list, I could add to both (don't get me started on new things I would want the new Camaro to have) but to keep this post short ....

I'd say Keep:
Power, A/C, Leather, Carpet (Mine is hardly worn and I use the floor mats), Seats, gauge cluster, center console, sexy a$$, steering wheel controls, wrapper leather steering wheel/shifter.

Change:
More sound proofing, better dash, paint (no orange peel please), unclutter engine bay, Power Windows (faster please), 1 DIN please, better gutters, smaller gears (mine are stock 2.73), better stock tires!

 

That's true. My Firebird's AC is awesome. My Ranger's AC hasn't worked since I was maybe ten. (I'm nearly 19 now)

 

LOL.....So true.

My LS1 isn't as bad as my LT1 was. I don't think those lines on the gage are 1/4 tanks, I think they are half lifes

My LS1 has about 2 gallons left when on "E", in my LT1 "E" stood for bone dry empty. I found that out the hard way.

 

Soooo true.

A couple of other people brought up a couple of other issues I have with the Camaro that didn't exist in the Fords even at 140,000+.

1. The rear end. Mine has been making noise since 120,000. It's been going on so long that I don't even notice it anymore. I currently have my 2nd SC which just turned over 205,000 miles (yes two-hundred thousand) and has never had rear end work. Neither did my Mustang when I sold it at 225,000. Ford does seem to have indestructable rear ends. It's certainlly a GM thing. Monzas & early 3rd gen Camaros were nortorious for having fragile rear ends.

2. Squeeks & Rattles. My car was pretty bad when I 1st bought it. Ironically, the 93 Z28 I got at auction with 130,000 miles was quieter and more rattle & squeek free than my 97 I got at about 32,000 (the 93's previous owner perhaps had them all fixed?). The passenger seat **** on my low mielage 97 rattled (cured with electrical tape), the hatch squeaked (cured with an excessive amont of greese & silicon), the door panels tended to squeak (took them apart & tightened screws), and various other gremlins I chased over the miles. The Mustang developed a high speed wind noise at the top of the drivers door somewhere between 120 & 140,000, but was otherwise squeak & rattle free. My 1st SC developed a sunroof rattle over bumps around 100,000 but was otherwise whisper quiet till I sold it. My curent SC is also squeek & rattle free. Ford has the squeek & rattle thing under control, and has for years.

3. Doing front brake work on my 5.0 Mustang was a bi-annual event. Also, every time you did brakework on a fox-Mustang, you had to replace the wheel bearings as well. I warped the rotors twice in 225K miles, and I believed Mustangs had terrible front brakes. Yet, I've already warped my front brakes on the Z once, so it's on par with the stang. The Thunderbird SC however has seemingly indestructible brakes. The front brakes got changed at 60,000 miles for the 1st time & the rears at 135,000 miles!

However, god forbid if you have a '89-'93 Supercoupe & your brake accentuator goes out. It doesn't have a conventional brake booster-Master cylinder-antilock components. It's all a one piece, all alumunum monstrosity that looks like it came out of an F-16, runs off the power sterring unit, and the dealer charges $1,600 for the part (as a member of SCCOA I got a rebuilt one for $400). This is typical Ford. Make a part that lasts nearly forever, but make it expensive so when it breaks, you're tempted to sell the whole car (how I got my 2nd SC ).


As for the 100,000 spark plugs, I finally changed the Z's at 110,000 miles. Car ran fine both before & after.

 

Wow - great thread, and great idea for it too!

I can't claim to have put 100k miles on a Camaro, but I have logged over 700k miles on Fords that I still own. To give many of you a laugh (and show Chris I dis on Fords too! LOL ), I would like to share some major gripes with Mustangs (and Ford in general).

1) The friggin rotors!!! Guy hit on it, but I want to pound on it... they SUCK!!!
I am driving right now on warped fronts - both of them. A result of mildly spirited driving at a recent autoX event. These have less than 50k miles on them, and they are the second set. Yup, first ones - same thing. I am going to bite the bullet and buy Powerslots next time at $90/each. That's a little steep, but I'm tired of the crappy OEM castings doing "the wave" when I use them.

2) Power door locks - OMG, what a joke. Not just Mustangs, but ALL fords from '79 thru '97. The "new units" seem to be doing better, but the jury's still out on them. The old ones are mounted in the door with the shaft sticking straight up, and they are positioned right under the rear corner of the window... where the water drips off. The bottom of the motor is completely sealed due to manufacturing technique. What does this make? A FRIGGIN CUP! Ford tried to put a rubber boot over the shaft to keep water from seeping in around the shaft, bot the boot dry-rots in a few years (like 2-4) and once it goes, the water comes in. The insides begin to corrode, and the motor soon completely seizes, then you can't lock the dorr by key, ****, or hammer. A $60 replacement does the same thing in 2to4 more years... NO easy solution to this one.

3) Cheezy cantilevered center arm rests. It looks OK, and works OK for a while. But as people lean on it with their elbows, it slowly bows down, the material cracks, and sooner or later they look like dookey.

4) Foam inside all armrests and dash. Again, it looks OK for a while, but 4 years or so bring bad things. EVERY car/truck I own has "dimples" in the armrests (door and center) from my elbows. The material (leather or vinyl) is holding well, but the sag sucks.

5) The Mustang gets a bye-run on this one, but most other conventional engines have a major flaw... the friggin distributors are in the back near the firewall! OMG!!! What a pain in the **** to change a dist cap that is SCREWED-ON and the little 5.5mm bolt is closer to the driveshaft than the radiator - I can't even see it! The 302 (aka 5.0) has the dist up front - MUCH better. More recent engines with modular electrinic ignition are better since the distributor is gone, but the ignition module is still in the rear making plug wire swaps difficult. (Ironically, I find most of the rest of the maintenance to be pretty straight-forward and simple on them all?!?!)

6)Alternators. Guy nailed it. Mine all seem to go trouble-free for 100-200k miles, but when they go... call your banker. I just put one on a '92GT... I puked $245 for an alternator, and the kicker is that the alternator wasn't really the problem. Ford incorporated the voltage regulator INTO the alternator back in the late '80's, removing the VR from the inner fender and simplifying the wiring and looks - OK move... until your VR hits the fritz. On my '71 Mach, I go to AutoZone and grab a VR for $6.97... but the "new and improved" units require you to buy a new alternator at a hefty markup. My guages start freakin', 10-minutes to test and remove the bad one, only 15-minutes for me to put in a new one, but $250 lighter wallet...

7) And finally... DOOR HINGES!
WHY, oh why, after making cars for 100 years, can't the company make door hinges that will last for 10 years without 3 rebuild kits?!?! A puny little 5/16 pin with bronze flange bushings to support a 100-lb cantilevered load... Sheesh.
It's a pain - takes me about 2 hrs to properly re-bush and pin a door (I choose to remove the front fender to access the hinge bolts, then have to go into the interior/dash and unhook the door wiring to remove the door for best servicing), and I invariably do it to every fox-body I buy. I also help buddies do them - 6 or 7 times here recently. I am a mechanical engineer, and I can give them 100 better ways to do it that won't cost them a dollar more per door. HeII, I'd pay them 5-times that if they'd do it for my cars!

OK - long enough for now, but I have LOTS more.
Thanks again to all for sharing honest assessments!
Let's hope these things hit home somewhere, eh?

 

I had about 80,000 miles on my '00 Z28 before I sold it.

After using it for F-Stock and then SM competition for two years, I was expecting problems but they didn't materalize. I was especially expecting the clutch to go out but it worked like a champ; dito the rear end and for that matter, all other major components.

Actually, I never had to do any significant mechanical repairs to the car...just normal maintainance (plugs, wires, etc).

I did have major problems with two power window motors and a very annyoing "dip" in electrical power that was solved by bolstering the alternator but all were handled under warranty.

Carpet and leather are both lousy...I've never had carpet wear through in any car I've ever owned (severl with +100K miles) but my Z did with only about 50K. Likewise, the leather wore through very quickly.

Plastic is also sub-par...for some reason, it's always looked more sutstantial/of better quality than the plastic in most other cars I've considered buying over the years but it does seem to not hold up as well.

Just my two cents!