Super Charged 98' Cobra against Civic with a lil' Turbo. [Archive]

RawAzzLT1

07-28-2004, 10:27 PM

About how many thousands of dollars?

I spent less than 5k on my setup when I first ran 12's.(car included) I now have substantial mods

this guy (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=937829) has a vx hatch with a stock motor with a bolt on kit and he pulled on an 11 second time. there are lots of cheap tricks to get a civic into teh 12's without spending much.

this (http://www.ykracing.com/stats.html) car is not street legal but ran 10's on the stock motor. it was 10.98@124 motor has been changed.

this (http://www.ericksracing.com/greenmonster.htm) setup total cost less than 6k car included. if you shop around in the right places. with lots more room if you tune for a bit more boost.

because this has been going on for a while and teh aftermarket is stronger than anything. you can built a 10 second full interior sleeper for less than the price of a stock 2001 fbody.

I would suggest browsing the forced induction and drag race forums over at honda-tech.com just to see where these cars are currently at. you might be amazed at the times they are making with not a whole lot spent. "jason hunt" is basically honda techs "taner" like we have here. at cz28.com he ran 9.54@153mph on a full weight street honda.registered,insured the whole nine. pretty quick :metal:

87camracer

07-29-2004, 12:21 AM

maybe you're misreading. there is a difference between an economy car and a performance car. that is the line I'm stressing.

I already said the Honda gets his respect. that Civic can outrun me by football fields. my point is this: it's still a Civic. calm down.

no i read it perfectly. and im sorry i came off as tho i was pissed. cuz that wasnt the case.

now what makes lets say a Civic Si or an Integra GSR an econobox? they are fast (for what they are, stock) cars that can be made HELLA fast for very little bank invested. is it the fact that they are inline 4 cylinders that makes them an econobox? if thats why you think that, then why do you think that? is it because any engine smaller than a v8 is for better economy? better think again if so. think about how much stronger that little 4 cylinder will be versus your v8. better think about how high they can rev (which makes the car faster). better think about the entire package as more than a small car with an i4 in it. better think of some of them as more than an "econobox". sure some are, and there are people that swap the high performance honda engines into them.

NightWindDriftr

07-29-2004, 03:19 AM

no i read it perfectly. and im sorry i came off as tho i was pissed. cuz that wasnt the case.

now what makes lets say a Civic Si or an Integra GSR an econobox? they are fast (for what they are, stock) cars that can be made HELLA fast for very little bank invested. is it the fact that they are inline 4 cylinders that makes them an econobox? if thats why you think that, then why do you think that? is it because any engine smaller than a v8 is for better economy? better think again if so. think about how much stronger that little 4 cylinder will be versus your v8. better think about how high they can rev (which makes the car faster). better think about the entire package as more than a small car with an i4 in it. better think of some of them as more than an "econobox". sure some are, and there are people that swap the high performance honda engines into them.

editing this whole thing -

the GS-R and Sis are capable cars, but that does NOT put them on par with cars carrying bigger engines. quick cars have more to them than their engine. this is why I never addressed the Civic (or any econobox's) engine, but the PURPOSE of the car.

a GS-R is Acura's attempt to compromise between economy and performance. the DOHC I4 is a relatively advanced technology over pushrods which is aimed at increasing volumetric efficency, which ultimately results in more MPGs for your dollar. IMO, these are high efficiency engines more than they are high performance. you have to admit, any engine smaller than a V8 is bound to produce more MPGs.

better think about how much PSI he's pounding on that little 4cyl vs. my NA, happy V8. better think about how high I4s have to rev straight to take advantage of their high-end for power, where-as my low RPMs give me the torque for the pull with a decent high-end. better think of most of them as econoboxes, because that's what they are.

in fact, you better know that I don't consider all 4cyls to be econoboxes. the STi has me convinced that they're more than capable of performing well against bigger engines.

I'm sure even you'd agree that there are more I4s designed with economy in mind than the few exceptions you'll find. the CIVIC is not one of those exceptions.

uh oh, here it comes again: the Civic is an econobox, you have to swallow this fact.

87camracer

07-29-2004, 11:04 AM

editing this whole thing -

the GS-R and Sis are capable cars, but that does NOT put them on par with cars carrying bigger engines. quick cars have more to them than their engine. this is why I never addressed the Civic (or any econobox's) engine, but the PURPOSE of the car.

a GS-R is Acura's attempt to compromise between economy and performance. the DOHC I4 is a relatively advanced technology over pushrods which is aimed at increasing volumetric efficency, which ultimately results in more MPGs for your dollar. IMO, these are high efficiency engines more than they are high performance. you have to admit, any engine smaller than a V8 is bound to produce more MPGs.

better think about how much PSI he's pounding on that little 4cyl vs. my NA, happy V8. better think about how high I4s have to rev straight to take advantage of their high-end for power, where-as my low RPMs give me the torque for the pull with a decent high-end. better think of most of them as econoboxes, because that's what they are.

in fact, you better know that I don't consider all 4cyls to be econoboxes. the STi has me convinced that they're more than capable of performing well against bigger engines.

I'm sure even you'd agree that there are more I4s designed with economy in mind than the few exceptions you'll find. the CIVIC is not one of those exceptions.

uh oh, here it comes again: the Civic is an econobox, you have to swallow this fact.

i think you need to reread the last 2 sentences of my last reply. i said that i know they all are not made for performance. i know that a SOHC civic DX or EX or an Integra LS is made for being an econobox. BUT, people mod them to make them fast. why? because the platform is JUST as capable as yours or my fbody. hell, there is a Ford Festiva here that runs 14.1@105mph. thats bolt on lt1 fast or stock ls1 fast. out of a damn festiva. now walk up to him and laugh and say that he should have done something different.

as far as low rpm torque, yes your car has that. but your car runs out of juice in the higher rpms. ALL engines do. but a turbo honda will pull from say 4k rpms to redline at about 9500 or 10000 (yes ten thousand) rpms. difference is? the turbo honda has an rpm range thats almos twice as long as yours but will hit redline faster than your car can go idle to 4000 rpms. those who complain about how high a honda has to rev are the ones that have never seen a 350-400whp honda hit boost. from what ive seen, once boost and vtec hits, its instantanious. also hondas for all intents and purposes COULD make more torque than you. why? because horsepower is a function of torque over time. so if the time is longer, torque will be less.

and finally, not all the honda 4 bangers were meant for economy. just the lower models were. and while i dont understand making them fast when the performance version is about the same price or a little more, im happy because when i want to buy my GSR Integra, it will be easy to find the one i want.

NightWindDriftr

07-29-2004, 11:57 AM

you say:
i know that a SOHC civic DX or EX or an Integra LS is made for being an econobox. BUT, people mod them to make them fast. why? because the platform is JUST as capable as yours or my fbody. hell, there is a Ford Festiva here that runs 14.1@105mph. thats bolt on lt1 fast or stock ls1 fast. out of a damn festiva. now walk up to him and laugh and say that he should have done something different.

several posts earlier, I said:
I don't understand why this is such a feat. everyone knows you can take any piece of crap and make it fast.

you say:
also hondas for all intents and purposes COULD make more torque than you.

which I don't dispute. however; DO Hondas make more torque than any V8?

I am fully aware of performance-oriented I4s. I've had the privilege of taking shotgun in an S2000, and that was an awesome ride compared to my TA.

you say:
and while i dont understand making them fast when the performance version is about the same price or a little more, im happy because when i want to buy my GSR Integra, it will be easy to find the one i want.

and that's EXACTLY what I'm getting at. I was never really shaking a stick at I4s until you brought it up. I was just dumbfounded as to why anyone would pick up an economy vehicle with performance in mind. in this particular case, I'm really looking at this turbo'd Civic.

RawAzzLT1

07-29-2004, 06:07 PM

I know what 87camracer is trying to say but its coming out wrong. there is a difference between an economy car and a sport compact. just like there is a difference between v6 fbodys and mustangs and thier v8 counter part. the Si' GS-r's and type _r's are all performance oriented the LS,dx,ex,vx,hx etc are all for economy purposes.

In Canada and Japan the ex doesnt exsist instead they get Si's and a limited edition b18c1 civic. and the type R ones. while America gets mostly economy ones. its kinda like St therese sent us all the v6 camaros and kept the v8's for themselves. we would have no choice but to do swaps.

Anyhow. people who mod civics see something that you wont see unless you been in a boosted one. its much faster than you think. its not important that you understand why they want to do it. but if you really would like to know, register at honda-tech and find out. posting here " I dont see why they mod economy cars" wont get your questions answered. one thing I can tell you though. they actually liek their cars as much as you do yours.

mr00jimbo

07-29-2004, 07:40 PM

The civic was originally intended as an Economy car, yes. Things change.
The Cougar was a muscle car. The Impala was a RWD Muscle car and as was the Malibu. Now their deep-root'd name is synonamous with family and economy. Why? Things change. The Corvette first came to the market with a 6 cylinder, I believe. Now it has a V8. People saw the Vette had potential and viola, the 8 cyl was stuffed in. With the Civic, they're mod-friendly cars with huge aftermarket potential. It was originally an econobox, yes but it's a lightweight body mated to disgusting amounts of power through turbochargers and other modifications.
If you couldn't mod Camaros, then nobody could compare them to Supras, Vettes, Porsches, etc. in terms of performance. The Si was brought to change the econobox thing and adapt to aftermarket add-ons. And if you feel so strongly apposed to Civics, there is nothing that will bring your fragile ego back after you get walked by a turbo Civic "econobox" on the highway. Nuff said! :p

FastZinTennessee

07-29-2004, 07:54 PM

RawAzzLT1

07-29-2004, 08:33 PM

depends on what u care about, rwd et's better fwd traps higher. so on one hand u have a car with good acceleration from a dig. another with sick mph from a roll. a stalled z28 will run a 11.5@110 a turbo civic will run a 11.9@129 one will win from a dead stop for a 1/4 mile. the other will rape the other from a roll.. supras are rwd and are only great at roll races. you have heard the jokes about teh difference between a 400hp supra and a 800hp supra. and those are rwd performance cars. its whatever you like.

If a u run into a turbo civic on the highway there is a strong chance he will pull you hard. u race from a stop your chances get way better. btw I do beleive in this story the civic won from a dig over a blown stang. if you can run mid 9's on street fwd suspension what more does performance do you need in a street car?

FastZinTennessee

07-29-2004, 08:41 PM

depends on what u care about, rwd et's better fwd traps higher

Just because you have a RWD car doesn't automatically mean that you will trap lower in a drag race.... Where the hell are you getting that from :confused: Trap speed is about gearing, drag coefficient, weight and power.

Supras aren't necesarily bad at dragracing. Sound Performance recently did one that ran 9.0!

RawAzzLT1

07-29-2004, 08:48 PM

Just because you have a RWD car doesn't automatically mean that you will trap lower in a drag race.... Where the hell are you getting that from :confused: Trap speed is about gearing, drag coefficient, weight and power.

Supras aren't necesarily bad at dragracing. Sound Performance recently did one that ran 9.0!

I didnt say you have to trap lower in rwd. but you typically dont trap as high as a fwd car would, same way they dont typically et' to match thier high mph. of course there is always exceptions to a rule. do you ever race from a roll?

FastZinTennessee

07-29-2004, 09:00 PM

I didnt say you have to trap lower in rwd.

Yes you did-

depends on what u care about, rwd et's better fwd traps higher. so on one hand u have a car with good acceleration from a dig. another with sick mph from a roll.

do you ever race from a roll?

I've been known to race from a roll before. However, since my car is a stalled automatic, it's better suited for drag racing. If I had a six speed I would have a greater advantage from a roll.

Steve Y

07-29-2004, 09:28 PM

RawAzzLT1

07-29-2004, 09:30 PM

The biggest problems with using a Civic as a drag race platform are: it's fwd, it's displacement is limited (practically speaking). Why try to make a fwd 4 cyl. car fast? It goes against the grain and common sense. The fastest drag racers in the world are rwd and have huge V8s. That is the tried and true formula for the best drag racers. Sure you can swap a motor in a Civic and turbo it and run pretty fast. What if you swapped a much bigger better motor in a Stang or Camaro and turboed it? You would rape the Civic big time! It is illogical to try to make a fwd small motored car a drag racer. But rebellious teenagers have been doing illogical things since the dawn of time. Nothing changes.

didnt the civic win in this story? :confused:

he said..

From a 40mph roll, it wasent close the civic killed us each time by like 3-5 cars. Pulled easy, shot off like a bullet. We went from other various rolls and the cobra jsut couldnt touch the civic from a roll..
Then i got them to go from a stop, it was a DEAD even drivers race. They both spun, but the civic jumped out a car on the cobra out of the hole.

all that with 3 people in teh car and fwd. hmm

call it a hunch but I think that car can beat your stang.

Steve Y

07-29-2004, 09:48 PM

didnt the civic win in this story? :confused:

he said..

all that with 3 people in teh car and fwd. hmm

call it a hunch but I think that car can beat your stang.

I was talking about Civics in general as a drag race platform. Yes the Civic won in this story. It had a lot more mods, and engine swap, a turbo and intercooler. The Stang just had a blower. Turbos are more efficient than blowers, intercooling is better than not. I bet the Civic was pushing a lot more boost than the Cobra as well. Let's do an engine swap in the Cobra the same % bigger and same % more volumetrically efficient as the Civic got. Then lets add a turbo and intercooler with the same boost as the Civic, what do you think will happen to the poor little Civic? Enough said. I should hope a gutted, engine swapped, turboed, intercooled Civic can beat my nearly stock Stang.

RawAzzLT1

07-29-2004, 09:52 PM

I was talking about Civics in general as a drag race platform. Yes the Civic won in this story. It had a lot more mods, and engine swap, a turbo and intercooler. The Stang just had a blower. Turbos are more efficient than blowers, intercooling is better than not. I bet the Civic was pushing a lot more boost than the Cobra as well. Let's do an engine swap in the Cobra the same % bigger and same % more volumetrically efficient as the Civic got. Then lets add a turbo and intercooler with the same boost as the Civic, what do you think will happen to the poor little Civic? Enough said. I should hope a gutted, engine swapped, turboed, intercooled Civic can beat my nearly stock Stang.

and what % would that be?where did it say the civic had a swap? and at when does a turbo make up for 4 more cylinders and 200 more cubes. and 3 people. what world am I living in when a guy says. " all the v8 stang has is a blower." when that 1.x litre 96cid honda with 3 people had a turbo.

Your making up excuses now, your assuming best mods on the civic while assuming minimum mods on the Cobra.

BTw you obviously didnt do this on purpose but you just admited that if a civic is better modded it will beat a v8. which I beleive is a good enough reason to modify one. along with this story ;)

Steve Y

07-29-2004, 10:19 PM

and what % would that be?where did it say the civic had a swap? and at when does a turbo make up for 4 more cylinders and 200 more cubes. on an already blown v8? what world am I living in when a guys says. " all the v8 stang has is a blower." when against a 1.x litre 96cid honda with 3 people?

Your making up excuses now, your assuming best mods on the civic while assuming minimum mods on the Cobra.

It did not SAY the Civic had a swap, i'm sure it did, though. To the original poster, please find out all about this Civic you raced and we will see what exactly it had done. I'm sure it was a bone stock, full interior, a/c daily driver Civic with an 8 psi intercooled turbo kit as it's only mod. :rolleyes: In this case the turbo, less weight, and god knows what other mods on the Civic did make up for 4 less cylinders and 180 more cubes, because it won! I'm not making up excuses. Let's find out exactly the mods on both cars.

KamaroL98

07-29-2004, 11:17 PM

Let's find out exactly the mods on both cars.

Im not exactly sure all the mods of each car other then the obvious. But i can say the civic was pushing alot more boost then the cobra and can handle more, its a pretty stout little "econobox".. Here is an underhood pic of the cobra. http://carolinamuscle.com/images/1elvin5.JPG
I dont think the cobra is set up to run what its capable of, i dont think his setup is right. And he wasent the greatest driver. He shifted slow. But the civic would have won either way..

NightWindDriftr

07-30-2004, 01:27 AM

NightWindDriftr

07-30-2004, 01:32 AM

I think the reason in the back of people's minds for calling Civics and Integras econoboxes is the fact that they are front wheel drive. At least that's what I think. You can argue just about any point of inline 4 vs. V8, but you can't argue the fact that FWD is not made for performance. The proof is here people- when honda wanted to bump up the performance with the S2000 and NSX they didn't dare use FWD. Econobox is about more than just the motor.

actually, those two cars are both one of the highest-rated cars in their class in terms of MPGs. we don't even need to bring the controversial "FWD vs RWD" or "I4 vs V8" argument onto this one. Honda does take pride in the incredible MPGs their vehicles are capable of netting. :)

87camracer

07-30-2004, 01:50 AM

It did not SAY the Civic had a swap, i'm sure it did, though. To the original poster, please find out all about this Civic you raced and we will see what exactly it had done. I'm sure it was a bone stock, full interior, a/c daily driver Civic with an 8 psi intercooled turbo kit as it's only mod. :rolleyes: In this case the turbo, less weight, and god knows what other mods on the Civic did make up for 4 less cylinders and 180 more cubes, because it won! I'm not making up excuses. Let's find out exactly the mods on both cars.

you sure as hell said it has a swap. want me to clearify it for you?

I was talking about Civics in general as a drag race platform. Yes the Civic won in this story. It had a lot more mods, and engine swap, a turbo and intercooler. The Stang just had a blower. Turbos are more efficient than blowers, intercooling is better than not. I bet the Civic was pushing a lot more boost than the Cobra as well. Let's do an engine swap in the Cobra the same % bigger and same % more volumetrically efficient as the Civic got. Then lets add a turbo and intercooler with the same boost as the Civic, what do you think will happen to the poor little Civic? Enough said. I should hope a gutted, engine swapped, turboed, intercooled Civic can beat my nearly stock Stang.

but i guess that one was a figment of my imagination. see this is what happens everytime someone runs faster than a "haloed car" for less than what the "haloed car" cost STOCK. a simple turbo setup on a civic can make 350whp VERY reliably and run low 12s @120 mph if the driver is worth the air he breathes. and a simple turbo setup does NOT cost much. hell i found a turbo setup today on www.turboimports.com for sale for $1700. i doubt that particular kit would turn the numbers im talkin about but you get the idea on price.

why does it matter why a person wants to make a 4 cylinder FWD car fast? why do people want to make a v8 powered RWD car fast? why do people go NA over FI? why does anyone have a different idea and a difference of opinion when it comes to anything? because thats what they want. period. you can question that, but at the same time ill question why you (you as in hypothetical) went NA instead of FI only to spend MORE money than you needed to and be slower to boot. or how about why you chose a 4th gen fbody or a mod motor powered Sn-95 mustang over say a 3rd gen or hell even a rusted to hell 2nd gen or mustang 2? because its what you WANTED. why is this always a threat to people on this site, or any other domestic owners site on the net? you go to honda tech and look at how they talk about domestics. they are held with the same respect that the import cars are. unless something happens that tears away at that respect. yet here we are bitching about peoples choices of what driveline setup they want or what car brand is important or why someone wouldnt choose an almighty fbody or mustang over some "POS" honduh. really people, does someones difference in opinion keep you awake at night? does it hurt you in anyway? if not, then what does it matter? :confused:

NightWindDriftr

07-30-2004, 02:17 AM

why does it matter why a person wants to make a 4 cylinder FWD car fast? why do people want to make a v8 powered RWD car fast? why do people go NA over FI? why does anyone have a different idea and a difference of opinion when it comes to anything? because thats what they want. period. you can question that, but at the same time ill question why you (you as in hypothetical) went NA instead of FI only to spend MORE money than you needed to and be slower to boot. or how about why you chose a 4th gen fbody or a mod motor powered Sn-95 mustang over say a 3rd gen or hell even a rusted to hell 2nd gen or mustang 2? because its what you WANTED. why is this always a threat to people on this site, or any other domestic owners site on the net? you go to honda tech and look at how they talk about domestics. they are held with the same respect that the import cars are. unless something happens that tears away at that respect. yet here we are bitching about peoples choices of what driveline setup they want or what car brand is important or why someone wouldnt choose an almighty fbody or mustang over some "POS" honduh. really people, does someones difference in opinion keep you awake at night? does it hurt you in anyway? if not, then what does it matter?

I bought a fast car. untouched in terms of modications. it's what I wanted. I'm just asking for a reason why you would take a slow car and while wanting a faster car you turn it into one. this is NOT MAKE-SPECIFIC, not YEAR/GENERATION SPECIFIC. I simply bought a fast car.

how many times must I stress that I'm not attacking your "Honduh" not being a good car. a difference in opinion is just a simple request for a rationalization. you aren't required to give one, but that doesn't mean I deserve pointless accusations. where the hell in my series of posts do I intentionally go out and flame the driver for his car-of-choice? I specifically point out what I believe the Civic's true purpose is and I'm asking "Why?" I'm not saying "my car is better than yours on several levels in regards to performance". in fact, this has all to do with the Civic and nothing to do with MY ride.

if opinions didn't matter, this board wouldn't exist. there are people bringing their girl-troubles here, people asking about what their next purchase should be, people debating the age-old F-body vs. Mustang. I actually sleep well at night regardless of what people believe and it doesn't hurt me. curiosity, that's all it is. KamaroL98 brought up a good point without antagonizing himself, why can't you?

RawAzzLT1

07-30-2004, 08:13 AM

NightWindDriftr the answer is simple. thats the car they like and want to be fast. not the car that you like. they like it.

NightWindDriftr

07-30-2004, 09:30 AM

NightWindDriftr the answer is simple. thats the car they like and want to be fast. not the car that you like. they like it.

obviously. I'm looking for a reason beyond that. that's like saying 1 + 1 = 2. I know it = 2, I'm asking why we have to use 1 + 1 to get there. you better like your car if you drop a turbo in it. are there any particular reasons that go beyond preference? all you're doing is bringing me rhetoric; with that quote up there, and with this one:

one thing I can tell you though. they actually liek their cars as much as you do yours.

of course they like their cars as much as I do mine. I never put that into question. now with the car-liking stuff aside, I'm not questioning the capability of a Civic to go fast. I'm just curious as to why you'd want it to. I'm trying hard to assume that the driver in the Civic had specific motivations to make a quick Civic. and I'm asking the forum what those might be. all I'm getting is...

"because they like their car as much as you like yours."
not answering the question

"why does it matter?"
is it such a crime to ask?

"just because it's an I4 doesn't mean it can't be fast."
I've already acknowledged performance 4 cylinder engines

I'm sorry if I came off with the wrong tone, but I'm really curious. the closest thing to an answer I've gotten came from jimbo;

It's LIGHT, with cheap parts and tons of potential! Turbos could be had for dirt cheap, engine swaps are plentiful and most of you won't admit that you like the look.

Steve Y

07-30-2004, 09:49 AM

you sure as hell said it has a swap. want me to clearify it for you?

but i guess that one was a figment of my imagination. see this is what happens everytime someone runs faster than a "haloed car" for less than what the "haloed car" cost STOCK. a simple turbo setup on a civic can make 350whp VERY reliably and run low 12s @120 mph if the driver is worth the air he breathes. and a simple turbo setup does NOT cost much. hell i found a turbo setup today on www.turboimports.com for sale for $1700. i doubt that particular kit would turn the numbers im talkin about but you get the idea on price.

why does it matter why a person wants to make a 4 cylinder FWD car fast? why do people want to make a v8 powered RWD car fast? why do people go NA over FI? why does anyone have a different idea and a difference of opinion when it comes to anything? because thats what they want. period. you can question that, but at the same time ill question why you (you as in hypothetical) went NA instead of FI only to spend MORE money than you needed to and be slower to boot. or how about why you chose a 4th gen fbody or a mod motor powered Sn-95 mustang over say a 3rd gen or hell even a rusted to hell 2nd gen or mustang 2? because its what you WANTED. why is this always a threat to people on this site, or any other domestic owners site on the net? you go to honda tech and look at how they talk about domestics. they are held with the same respect that the import cars are. unless something happens that tears away at that respect. yet here we are bitching about peoples choices of what driveline setup they want or what car brand is important or why someone wouldnt choose an almighty fbody or mustang over some "POS" honduh. really people, does someones difference in opinion keep you awake at night? does it hurt you in anyway? if not, then what does it matter? :confused:

"I" (me) said it had a motor swap. "IT" (the original poster) didn't say wether or not it was a swapped motor. The best bone stock Civic motor will only put out about 125 whp. So it will take about a 27 psi intercooled turbo system and race gas to make 350 whp on a bone stock Civic motor. Reliable my a**! :eek:

NightWindDriftr

07-30-2004, 10:18 AM

87camracer

07-30-2004, 10:44 AM

"I" (me) said it had a motor swap. "IT" (the original poster) didn't say wether or not it was a swapped motor. The best bone stock Civic motor will only put out about 125 whp. So it will take about a 27 psi intercooled turbo system and race gas to make 350 whp on a bone stock Civic motor. Reliable my a**! :eek:

it needs 27psi? how do you figure that? and 350whp is like 350whp on an lt1 with heads and cam. if properly maintained it will last as long as you want to. tuning is the key, if it detonates under boost, you are done. but if not, the record for a stock GSR Integra (called the B18C1) is in the 500whp range. but you should tell these people their cars are ticking time bombs....

http://www.boosted-hybrid.com/viewtopic.php?t=82 -354whp B18

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=893342 -thats a B18B1 which is a 1.8L just like the B18C1 but has a SOHC instead of dual. 382whp with ONLY an AFC to tune it with.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=824252 -another GSR dyno but this time in a civic hatch, but that wont effect hp any. 424whp and 271wtq at 15psi.

those are all reliable setups and can hold that power for a while IF properly maintained and IF the tune is right.

i leave you with this, probably the best sounding dyno evar.
http://www.tubistylejapan.com/tubi355.001.mpg.mpg :eek: :bow:

robvas

07-30-2004, 12:43 PM

Put the Cobra engine in an Pinto and see who wins ;)

robvas

07-30-2004, 12:45 PM

it needs 27psi? how do you figure that? and 350whp is like 350whp on an lt1 with heads and cam. if properly maintained it will last as long as you want to. tuning is the key, if it detonates under boost, you are done. but if not, the record for a stock GSR Integra (called the B18C1) is in the 500whp range. but you should tell these people their cars are ticking time bombs....

http://www.boosted-hybrid.com/viewtopic.php?t=82 -354whp B18

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=893342 -thats a B18B1 which is a 1.8L just like the B18C1 but has a SOHC instead of dual. 382whp with ONLY an AFC to tune it with.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=824252 -another GSR dyno but this time in a civic hatch, but that wont effect hp any. 424whp and 271wtq at 15psi.

those are all reliable setups and can hold that power for a while IF properly maintained and IF the tune is right.

i leave you with this, probably the best sounding dyno evar.
http://www.tubistylejapan.com/tubi355.001.mpg.mpg :eek: :bow:
Not this **** again from this kid.

A friend of mine broke an axle or LSD on the starting line in his 92 Hatch with B18 swap. His second run ever on that setup. :no:

I'd love to see that same car with 150+ HP and real tires :rolleyes:

KamaroL98

07-30-2004, 02:03 PM

I'd love to see that same car with 150+ HP and real tires :rolleyes:

I would think the civics front axles could handle such low hp, but we cant say anything becaus our rear ends go to hell after we get a littlw quicker to. AFter seeing my friend fix his over and over again, i bought a moser 12 bolt the first time mine broke.

87camracer

07-30-2004, 03:33 PM

Not this **** again from this kid.

A friend of mine broke an axle or LSD on the starting line in his 92 Hatch with B18 swap. His second run ever on that setup. :no:

I'd love to see that same car with 150+ HP and real tires :rolleyes:

you know whats funny about you? you never have any proof of what you say. sure i wont disagree that with traction things start breaking. but hell atleast show some proof and not just mouth off like a badass. :rolleyes:

TransAmGT94

07-30-2004, 04:53 PM

90% of the time the fast hondas have a monster turbo that doesnt spool up untill around 4000 rpm thats why they all refuse to race from a stop.
I got killed by a civic with a big turbo and when we raced from 0 it was pretty much even other than the major jump i got cause they dont have an ounce of torque

i dont care if they win or not they still wont touch a highy modified f-body :D

FastZinTennessee

07-30-2004, 07:35 PM

I don't see where all this hype is coming from- Ah man, you can just go buy a Civic, put a cheap turbo on there and run so dang fast! Oh my sh*t man, they're so bad, so bad. That's the coolest thing ever man.......

All I can say about that is whatever. We have a local guy here, has a 92 hatchback, motor swap and a turbo. He just ran a new best of 11.84, which is good, but his mph was only 115. That's a "gift from god JDM Vtec motor swap" and 10 lbs. of boost. Where is the monster trap speed guys? We put a bottle on my buddies 01 SS and it trapped 118. Again, where's the hype? I should also add that the Civic ran with the passenger seat out, and the bottom of the rear seat removed.

I remember a few years ago, we had some turbo'd Honda's, Mitsubishi's, and Nissan's drive to our local hangout from Indiana. Somehow, a race got set up between a nitrous'd C5 automatic that was otherwise stock, and a fully built turbo'd Integra. When I say built, I mean everything, from suspension to motor, and everywhere in between. The Integra won, they started at 55 because he refused to go from a stop ( :lol: ) The Integra got owned all the way until like 120 or so before he could finally get past the Vette. Kinda sucks that it takes a built honda from two states away, AND takes him until well over 100 to finally pull a stock AUTOMATIC Vette with a bottle.

So in closing, sure you can make a Civic fast, I have no problem with that. Just don't expect any respect from me just because you started out with a stupid platform.

RawAzzLT1

07-30-2004, 08:16 PM

however.. there are civics that can pull on blown v8's cars with 3 passengers inside. :p

FastZinTennessee

07-30-2004, 08:21 PM

RawAzzLT1

07-30-2004, 08:36 PM

Yup, and my buddy had a 96 Cobra Convertable with a built 4.6, ATI procharger, front mount, viper spec T56 trans, 4.11 gears and bunch of other goodies. It would have smoked the f*ck out of the Civic in question from any speed......... With the top down :p

probably not.. last superchatged cobra that civic ran it put a hurting on it with 3 people inside..how about your car? :)

Steve Y

07-30-2004, 11:56 PM

it needs 27psi? how do you figure that? and 350whp is like 350whp on an lt1 with heads and cam. if properly maintained it will last as long as you want to.

The strongest stock Civic motor puts out 160 flywheel hp. So it probably puts out 125 whp? You need to add 14.7 psi of intercooled turbo boost to double the power of any engine (assuming enough fuel and a big enough turbo). So it would take about 27 psi to make 350 whp on a 125 whp motor. We were assuming a stock Civic motor, because the poster didn't know for sure. But are the rods, pistons, crank, etc. in the 125 whp Civic motor designed to take the stress of 350 whp for 100,000 miles of thrashing like the Chevy motor?

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:02 AM

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:04 AM

however.. there are civics that can pull on blown v8's cars with 3 passengers inside. :p

There are n/a Stangs that can rape fully built turboed Civics, too. Maybe the Stang wasn't tuned well, or the Civic had a better power to weight ratio. Who knows. Either way props to the Civic.

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:20 AM

The strongest stock Civic motor puts out 160 flywheel hp. So it probably puts out 125 whp? You need to add 14.7 psi of intercooled turbo boost to double the power of any engine (assuming enough fuel and a big enough turbo). So it would take about 27 psi to make 350 whp on a 125 whp motor. We were assuming a stock Civic motor, because the poster didn't know for sure. But are the rods, pistons, crank, etc. in the 125 whp Civic motor designed to take the stress of 350 whp for 100,000 miles of thrashing like the Chevy motor?

even if what you wer esaying was true your math is horrible. first of all the civic type R comes with 185hp. the 160 hp is from the si which is 149whp. fwd has less drivetrain loss that rwd. it has less moving parts. secondly. it takes about 13psi tp make 350whp on a b16 from a mediom sized turbo. I have never seen a b16 with 27psi with less that 550 to the wheels. you just making things up now. show me proof that it takes 27psi to hit 350whp, Im calling bs on you. I am telling you that kinda boost pressure will make over 550whp and I can back it up. show me proof. I can back up what I say can you?

FastZinTennessee

07-31-2004, 12:27 AM

probably not.. last superchatged cobra that civic ran it put a hurting on it with 3 people inside..how about your car? :)

Actually yes, buddy...... Fully forged bottom end 4.6 DOHC motor, 8.5:1 compression, ATI D1-SC procharger (the big one!) with upgraded custom front mount. Kook's stepped 1 7/8" headers. MSD ignition. Fully tuned using an twEECer (I think that's what it's called). Basically, it would blow the tires off at 65 on pump gas. It's quite a bit faster than the Mustang we are talking about here, hence, it would take the Civic in question here to "walkedville". Since you know so much about boost, I guess I'll just tell you that the Cobra was running around 20 psi, you do the math on how fast it is.

As for my car, it'll be just fine. It's got a blown headgasket right now, but will be back stronger.

PS- I didn't have any trouble with Hondas before, and definitely won't when I get it back together ;)

warwickbass

07-31-2004, 12:29 AM

There any N/A Civics that assrape V8s? Probably fewer than more.

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:31 AM

Actually yes, buddy...... Fully forged bottom end 4.6 DOHC motor, 8.5:1 compression, ATI D1-SC procharger (the big one!) with upgraded custom front mount. Kook's stepped 1 7/8" headers. MSD ignition. Fully tuned using an twEECer (I think that's what it's called). Basically, it would blow the tires off at 65 on pump gas. It's quite a bit faster than the Mustang we are talking about here, hence, it would take the Civic in question here to "walkedville". Since you know so much about boost, I guess I'll just tell you that the Cobra was running around 20 psi, you do the math on how fast it is.

As for my car, it'll be just fine. It's got a blown headgasket right now, but will be back stronger.

PS- I didn't have any trouble with Hondas before, and definitely won't when I get it back together ;)

I have seen 700hp mustangs get beat by 450hp hatchbacks. I even have videos if you wanna host them for me. you are not guranteed to win anything becauase you have a powerful 8 cylinder. one in particular I have a video of this guy raping a 785rwhp mustang I mean by bustlengths.!!. as you can see he makes 616whp in a full inteior si Terry's car (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=704660)

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:32 AM

even if what you wer esaying was true your math is horrible. first of all the civic type R comes with 185hp. the 160 hp is from the si which is 149whp. fwd has less drivetrain loss that rwd. it has less moving parts. secondly. it takes about 13psi tp make 350whp on a b16 from a mediom sized turbo. I have never seen a b16 with 27psi with less that 550 to the wheels. you just making things up now. show me proof that it takes 27psi to hit 350whp, Im calling bs on you. I am telling you that kinda boost pressure will make over 550whp and I can back it up. show me proof. I can back up what I say can you?

Civic type R's are not available in the U.S. Are you absolutely sure the 160 hp motor puts out 149 whp? Anybody else know? It would take about 19 psi on a 149 whp motor to make 350 whp with no other mods. You are talking about bigger motors that make a lot more n/a whp. I want to see your proof of a 125 whp motor with no other mods other than a 27 psi turbo making 550 whp!

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:34 AM

I have seen 700hp mustangs get beat by 450hp hatchbacks. I even have videos if you wanna host them for me. you are not guranteed to win anything becauase you have a powerful 8 cylinder.

I've beat 8 second dragsters when they stalled at the line. Anything can happen. There are no guarantees. Most of the time 700 hp Stangs will rape 450 hp hatches.

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:38 AM

[QUOTE=Steve Y]Civic type R's are not available in the U.S. Are you absolutely sure the 160 hp motor puts out 149 whp? Anybody else know? It would take about 19 psi on a 149 whp motor to make 350 whp with no other mods. QUOTE]

10psi 320whp (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=937829&postid=10771718#10771718) bone stock motor yes I am positive the put out 149whp stock. mine did. and sorry no way I can ind a bone stock motor on 27psi making 550. because no one has every pushed that much boost with no other mods. you at least need fuel man. :cool: but if you liek I can show you motors with rods and piston pushing 500 and 600 horses

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:42 AM

[QUOTE=Steve Y]Civic type R's are not available in the U.S. Are you absolutely sure the 160 hp motor puts out 149 whp? Anybody else know? It would take about 19 psi on a 149 whp motor to make 350 whp with no other mods. QUOTE]

10psi 320whp (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=937829&postid=10771718#10771718) bone stock motor

I am talking about a bone stock Civic Si with 19 psi. Who knows what mods that guy has. First he has JDM motor not one from Honda. He probably has full intake, exhaust, and who knows what else. Try again.

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:45 AM

I am talking about a bone stock Civic Si with 19 psi. Who knows what mods that guy has. First he has JDM motor not one from Honda. He probably has full intake, exhaust, and who knows what else. Try again.

dude..

Setup:

Stock JDM B16 -never touched
Stock B16 Tranny
Stock Honda Cltuch
Stock Injectors
Stock P30 ECU

Bolt-on DRAG kit
Deltagate/FMU/Inline pump/Walbro 255 intank
10-11psi

its all stock on 10-11psi. a jdm b16 is the same as a usdm with only .5 higher compression . its still rated at 160hp.. see for yourself JDM b16 (http://hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30002) "160Hp 111Trq 10.2 Compression (JDM) " you're arguing with someone who has a turbo civic.

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:49 AM

dude..

Setup:

Stock JDM B16 -never touched
Stock B16 Tranny
Stock Honda Cltuch
Stock Injectors
Stock P30 ECU

Bolt-on DRAG kit
Deltagate/FMU/Inline pump/Walbro 255 intank
10-11psi

its all stock on 10-11psi. a jdm b16 is the same as a usdm with only .5 higher compression . its still rated at 160hp.. see for yourself JDM b16 (http://hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30002) "160Hp 111Trq 10.2 Compression (JDM) "

I bet he is not listing all of his mods. You really think he has the stock full exhaust, intake, computer and everything else? No way.

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:51 AM

I bet he is not listing all of his mods. You really think he has the stock full exhaust, intake, computer and everything else? No way.

Of course I think it, do you see anyone calling BS in the thread? its been done many times before. this isnt 1997 when even 10k couldnt get u into the 13's in a civic. if you really want I can dig up the stock motor dyno record for a b16. btw why are we talking about b16's? we have no clue whats done to that civic

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 12:56 AM

Of course I think it, do you see anyone calling BS in the thread? its been done many times before. this isnt 1997 when even 10k couldnt get u into the 13's in a civic. if you really want I can dig up the stock motor dyno record for a b16. btw why are we talking about b16's? we have no clue whats done to that civic

The theory goes like this. Take any n/a motor whp. Add 14.7 psi of intercooled turbo boost and you will see double the whp. Add 29.4 psi and you will see triple the whp. This is assuming standard atmospheric conditions and race gas with no detonation. I have yet to see this theory fail. It has always been very close to reality. Can you prove it wrong?

87camracer

07-31-2004, 12:58 AM

I've beat 8 second dragsters when they stalled at the line. Anything can happen. There are no guarantees. Most of the time 700 hp Stangs will rape 450 hp hatches.

that so? cuz heres a 500rwhp 240sx (read, lighter than a mustang) that goes down to a civic. if i remember correctly the civic was in teh 450whp range.

http://www.technologyorgasm.com/upload/civicvs500hp240.mpg

also i see you mysteriously didnt read my post PROVING you dont some BS 27psi to make 350whp. if you want more im sure i could find some, i just got sidetracked reading some other posts on there and forgot about it. but i wouldnt expect anyone to see those or comment when things are proven wrong.

87camracer

07-31-2004, 01:00 AM

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 01:01 AM

The theory goes like this. Take any n/a motor whp. Add 14.7 psi of intercooled turbo boost and you will see double the whp. Add 29.4 psi and you will see triple the whp. This is assuming standard atmospheric conditions and race gas with no detonation. I have yet to see this theory fail. It has always been very close to reality. Can you prove it wrong?

first of all that formula applies to cauberated motors. that didnt have computers and fuel injection, secondly how many more links do I have to show you of motors making far more than doube the power on 14.7psi. ok lemme show U another this one has lower compression on 15psi look what ot makes. turbo b16 (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=664355) keep in mind with 8.5:1 compression (far less than stock) it probably makes about 125whp n/a

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 01:15 AM

608whp on 28psi (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=712430) as I said. 27psi should give u over 550whp. :cool:

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 11:39 AM

just makin sure you didnt miss this somehow steve.

I see that. The arguement was for a 125 whp bone stock 1.6 liter motor. All I was saying is this: it would take about 27 psi to make a 125 whp motor into a 350 whp motor with no other mods.

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 11:41 AM

[QUOTE=87camracer]that so? cuz heres a 500rwhp 240sx (read, lighter than a mustang) that goes down to a civic. if i remember correctly the civic was in teh 450whp range.

http://www.technologyorgasm.com/upload/civicvs500hp240.mpg
QUOTE]

What was the race weight of both cars? There are a lot of factors in a drag race beside just whp, like traction, gearing, weight, aerodynamics, driver ability, weather, etc. etc.

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 11:44 AM

first of all that formula applies to cauberated motors. that didnt have computers and fuel injection, secondly how many more links do I have to show you of motors making far more than doube the power on 14.7psi. ok lemme show U another this one has lower compression on 15psi look what ot makes. turbo b16 (http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=664355) keep in mind with 8.5:1 compression (far less than stock) it probably makes about 125whp n/a

Your guessing about the 125 whp w/o the turbo. If it made about 168 whp w/o the turbo (and I bet it does) then my formula would be right on. Do you have any n/a then turbo dynoes for the same engine with no other mods and the amount of boost added?

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 11:47 AM

608whp on 28psi (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=712430) as I said. 27psi should give u over 550whp. :cool:

That is a built motor with who knows what mods besides the turbo. It should make about 210 whp with all the mods except the turbo which is reasonable, don't you think?

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 12:49 PM

FastZinTennessee

07-31-2004, 03:40 PM

I have seen 700hp mustangs get beat by 450hp hatchbacks.

That's the funny thing about racing, sometimes weird things happen. Could have been that the Mustang had lots of power, but no suspension/chassis mods to allow that power to get put to the ground. Maybe the hatchcrap did. By the time you hit that kind of power (700 rwhp) it takes a seriously well thought out chassis/suspension to keep up with the motor. But I'm sure that you're about to tell me that everything in the race was completely equal, and the hatchcrap made up a 250 rwhp deficit simply because it's a honda :rolleyes: :lol:

And you also dont need mods to make more power at 14.7psi. you can adjust the timing advance and create even more power.

Yup, then you can get detonation and blow your **** up! The more you post the more I'm convinced that you just have no clue what you're talking about.

Tair

07-31-2004, 04:55 PM

well....the quote was "Why can't people make fast cars out of fast or nice cars?"...a pile of dog sh*t doesn't qualify as a "fast car". :lol: :D

NightWindDriftr

07-31-2004, 05:23 PM

well....the quote was "Why can't people make fast cars out of fast or nice cars?"...a pile of dog sh*t doesn't qualify as a "fast car". :lol: :D

but it certainly demonstrates that it's no amazing feat that any pile of crap (no pun intended) can be fast. :D

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 06:36 PM

Steve no b16 that i know over has ever made more than 200whp n/a on stock cubes. and I mean thats an agressive setup. 168whp in a low compression b16 is not gonna happen. you have alot more to learn about boost and computers Steve. 14.7psi only tells you how much the air is compressed. not the actual volume thats being compressed. basically a t88 at 14.7psi is not the same as a t3 at 14.7psi.. by your logic a t88 and t3 on the same boost level will create the same HP. a bone stock b16 with a 60-1 turbo on 14.7psi is gonna make over 360whp, a bone stock b16 with a t3 at 14.7psi is probably not going to make even 270whp.

And you also dont need mods to make more power at 14.7psi. you can adjust the timing advance and create even more power.

The formula was based on a turbo plenty big to support the airlflow required by the motor. I got it from Richard Holdener, he writes for www.musclemustangfastfords.com He has been building all kinds of 4, 6, and 8 cyl turbo motors for decades. He really knows his stuff. You need to retard timing and/or run high octane fuel with more boost. Both will cause a loss of power but a safer tune up.

I know, the magical HONDA motor will make twice the power of any other motor at the same boost pressure, run 400,000 miles and never burn a drop of oil. :rolleyes:

Steve Y

07-31-2004, 06:42 PM

but it certainly demonstrates that it's no amazing feat that any pile of crap (no pun intended) can be fast. :D

:bow: Civics suck, fwd sucks, and Hondas suck for drag racing. They are great reliable economy cars, nothing more. The Honda guy's philosphy: let's stuff an 800 cc motor in a 2500 lb. Civic, turbo it to within an inch of it's life, put in 6.30 gears, shift at 15,000 rpm and we will have a wicked dragster! :p

RawAzzLT1

07-31-2004, 08:35 PM

:bow: Civics suck, fwd sucks, and Hondas suck for drag racing. They are great reliable economy cars, nothing more. The Honda guy's philosphy: let's stuff an 800 cc motor in a 2500 lb. Civic, turbo it to within an inch of it's life, put in 6.30 gears, shift at 15,000 rpm and we will have a wicked dragster! :p

the guy on here named taner. has the worlds fastest 6 speed lt1 z28 he runs 9.58@143. and ist a street car does his car suck?

NightWindDriftr

07-31-2004, 10:10 PM

put in 6.30 gears

:lol: I guess you can't call it an econobox after that uber mod :)

Steve Y

08-01-2004, 01:40 PM

the guy on here named taner. has the worlds fastest 6 speed lt1 z28 he runs 9.58@143. and ist a street car does his car suck?

No. Why would his car suck? It's not a fwd POS Civic. :D

KamaroL98

08-01-2004, 03:57 PM

Steve Y

08-01-2004, 09:56 PM

Hondas may not work good from a roll with front wheel drive and the usualle turbo with lag and all. But i came along way since ive been into racing and you can say Hondas suck or whatever, but when you pull up next to the wrong one and run from a stop an jump him at the 60ft, then see him shoot back up next to you like a rocket and your going all out and the honda is sitting there beside you just tapping the gas peddle playing with you, you really cant talk after that. :)

I know there are plenty that would whip my car. But mod for mod the Civic does not stand a chance against a Stang or Camaro. That ficticious Civic would need very serious mods to do that and I am almost stock. There is always somebody faster. I saw a 9 second Pinto that would stomp you! Does that mean it's not a POS, not hardly. It was a stripped bucket of bolts with a big engine and tires. Fwd, Hondas and Civics suck compared to Stangs and Camaros for a drag racer, that's all I was saying. Overgrown weed whacker engines that sound like a**, fwd is bad for drag racing, etc. Just like Stangs and Camaros suck for an economy car.

RawAzzLT1

08-01-2004, 11:32 PM

No. Why would his car suck? It's not a fwd POS Civic. :D

well Taner has a street lt1 6 speed. runs 9.58@143..Jason hunt has a 5 speed honda. full interior street car that runs 9.54@153 now lets see...

both cars are manual tranny, both cars are street cars, the honda has full interior. taners z28 has no back seat. one is rwd the other is fwd. yet the fwd car is quicker and faster. so not only can he take taner out the hole. he can rape him from a roll.Imagine that. again does taners car suck?

and on top of it all. you drive a 14 second mustang that has a 2.2 60 foot. so tell me whats a pos? there are so many fwd cars that will kill you. then what will you say? "if I did xxx mods I would beat you","my uncles cousins girlfriends sisters boyfriend has a mustang that can beat you" I think you should at least make your car break 10's before you start trash talking :cool:

since we are talking about the honda in this story. regardless of how you feel, u can never beat it. you can talk about hypothetical situation until you are blue in teh face. its very apparent that you dont have the fund, or just dont have the means to do anything to beat a car like that. therefore you argument is as redundant as your biased one sided opinions..

again does taners car suck? its slower even though its rwd. so does it suck?

RawAzzLT1

08-01-2004, 11:51 PM

KamaroL98

08-01-2004, 11:54 PM

Faster then the fastest "LT1". :D lol

Thats pretty intresting, and i doubt either one really gets driven as a street car. Or your 'average' car.. DO you have info on the honda, is it still FWD?

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 12:00 AM

Faster then the fastest "LT1". :D lol

Thats pretty intresting, and i doubt either one really gets driven as a street car. Or your 'average' car.. DO you have info on the honda, is it still FWD?

I can find pics of his car if you like plus a few vidoes

www.fastestfwdstreetcars.com (http://www.fastestfwdstreetcars.com/fastestfwdstreetcars%20website/WEB%20PAGES/WEB%20PAGES/drag%20race%20forced%20induction%20page.htm) <---current times

and the amazing thing is he still has more in his setup. hopefully he runs low 9's next season.

when he first broke 9's (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=311954)

robvas

08-02-2004, 10:06 AM

both cars are manual tranny, both cars are street cars, the honda has full interior. taners z28 has no back seat. one is rwd the other is fwd. yet the fwd car is quicker and faster. so not only can he take taner out the hole. he can rape him from a roll.Imagine that. again does taners car suck?

A car that runs 9.5 @ 150-something is going to be playing catchup out of the hole to a car that runs 9.5 @ 140-something, idiot.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 11:02 AM

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 11:05 AM

Steve, do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion? you saying camaros and mustangs are better than hondas is just your opinion. no matter how much u beleive it. its just your opinion. me saying my honda is better than your 14 second stang. I beleive it but its just my opinion.

however...

the fastest 6 speed street lt1 in America is slower than the fastest street honda. that is a fact you can bitch and moan all you want. it cuts better et's and trap speeds. you make rediculous comments like you can build a pinto to run xx time but its still crap.. even though hondas have far superior build quality to what you drive. and any fbody ever made. :rolleyes:

Now to run 9.54@153 is damn fast, not the fastest car on the planet by far. but is outright sick for a street car. and to be honest who needs to go faster in a street car or even that fast? I dont see how a fwd sucks when you can run mid 9's which is 2.5 seconds faster than the legal limits.

How fast was the Civic when stock or with the same mods as my Stang? About mid 15s at best, a slow weak turd. It is a FACT that a Stang or a Camaro is a better platform for building a drag racer. I can't help it if you won't give credit where it is due. Go join a Honda board and kiss Honda's butt like so many young nieve pimple faced morons do. Honda makes a great economy car not a muscle or drag car. You have to stress it to within an inch of it's life and rev the piss out of it for any power.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 11:32 AM

A car that runs 9.5 @ 150-something is going to be playing catchup out of the hole to a car that runs 9.5 @ 140-something, idiot.

um. the honda croses the line at 9.54 the z28 crosses at 9.58. the z28 would play catch up..idiot

robvas

08-02-2004, 11:42 AM

When are car ET's nearly the same and MPH's that much higher it's playing catchup (and it does catch the slower car). I'm not going to argue with you.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 11:44 AM

How fast was the Civic when stock or with the same mods as my Stang? About mid 15s at best, a slow weak turd. It is a FACT that a Stang or a Camaro is a better platform for building a drag racer. I can't help it if you won't give credit where it is due. Go join a Honda board and kiss Honda's butt like so many young nieve pimple faced morons do. Honda makes a great economy car not a muscle or drag car. You have to stress it to within an inch of it's life and rev the piss out of it for any power.

rwd is a better platform yet, taners car is slower than a street honda. in your book that doesnt count for anything.. even though..

Camaro
slicks
manual tranny
399cid +power adder
no back seat
massive suspension

Honda
slicks
manual tranny
98cid + power adder
full interior
tokico shocks and coil overs.

and the honda is still quicker and faster but its not a good platform for drag racing.you know... even though its both faster and quicker than taners camaro.. you can live in denial all you want, your opinion is superseded by the FACT that a fwd street honda can run faster than every street car on this site. :p

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 11:46 AM

When are car ET's nearly the same and MPH's that much higher it's playing catchup (and it does catch the slower car). I'm not going to argue with you.

who crosses the line first? Im sorry but you dont win if you cross the line second. you lose.

87camracer

08-02-2004, 12:39 PM

How fast was the Civic when stock or with the same mods as my Stang? About mid 15s at best, a slow weak turd. It is a FACT that a Stang or a Camaro is a better platform for building a drag racer. I can't help it if you won't give credit where it is due. Go join a Honda board and kiss Honda's butt like so many young nieve pimple faced morons do. Honda makes a great economy car not a muscle or drag car. You have to stress it to within an inch of it's life and rev the piss out of it for any power.

PROVE this. i want you to prove everything you say. because if not it will just be hearsay just like Robvas. so prove how bad of a car a civic is for racing. i want actual facts supporting your biased opinions here. because all i see is you bashing a car for it being something you dont like. which BTW, i thought you said 4 pages ago you wouldnt do? :confused:

Chris89Stang

08-02-2004, 01:18 PM

Hey! Tweedledee and tweedledumb are back with the links and Civics are the fastest things in the world garbage! :lol:
Honda
slicks
manual tranny
98cid + power adder
full interior
tokico shocks and coil overs.
From the thread on honda-tech (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=311954) that you posted.
built/sleeved block, vtec head, gsr cams, speedpro management, 25" tires, t4 60-1 turbo, rev hard manifold, jg intake manifold, b16 tranny..........still retains almost all of the factory interior.
So wouldn't taner's car be considered almost a full interior if its just missing a back seat? I wonder how many more things you guys just happen to forget to mention when comparing these super civics with other vehicles. :rolleyes:

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 01:38 PM

Hey! Tweedledee and tweedledumb are back with the links and Civics are the fastest things in the world garbage! :lol:

From the thread on honda-tech (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=311954) that you posted.

So wouldn't taner's car be considered almost a full interior if its just missing a back seat? I wonder how many more things you guys just happen to forget to mention when comparing these super civics with other vehicles. :rolleyes:

um.. he took the carpet at the back of his hatch and replaced it with vinyl .. no seat has been removed. he doesnt even have a racing seat. its all stock. along with a heavy roll cage.. so keep on :cry:

damn butthurt mustang drivers sure are a pita. when a honda beats them damn the mustang lost get over it. its not like your not used to losing. thats a part of owning a mustang :p

Chris89Stang

08-02-2004, 02:47 PM

um.. he took the carpet at the back of his hatch and replaced it with vinyl .. no seat has been removed. he doesnt even have a racing seat. its all stock. along with a heavy roll cage.. so keep on :cry:

damn butthurt mustang drivers sure are a pita. when a honda beats them damn the mustang lost get over it. its not like your not used to losing. thats a part of owning a mustang :p
I'm butthurt?! LOL! Where did I even mention anything about a Mustang getting beat in my reply? I could care less. There is always someone faster whether it be an import, domestic, fwd, awd, etc. My point is that you don't always relay the CORRECT info. when defending your precious ****boxes.

Obviously you are the one that gets butthurt when people talk bad about your precious honduhs that you feel the need to defend them with your rediculous claims and multiple links of OTHER peoples cars. :lol:

Every one of these threads are so predictable. Someone talks bad about a Civic and here comes RawAzzLT1 with his links and 87camracer right behind talking about how cheap and easy it is to make these civics fast. :think:

robvas

08-02-2004, 03:05 PM

Ever heard of John Meaney's Corvette?

WHAT DOES IT RUN?
We know that you're dying to hear what it runs down the dragstrip. These figures are equally impressive, but only for those who understand the figures.

Meaney said, "I drove the car 125 miles one-way to Mid-Michigan Dragway, near Grand Rapids, and got 18 mpg. Every time I tried to run it down the track, with the new Michelin Pilot radials and it would spin the tires uncontrollably. Without really accelerating until the eighth-mile, Mike Moran got it to go 11.80 at 141.5 mph on his first pass. After figuring out how to launch it, Mike ran 11.11 at 151.5 mph on his second attempt (timing only 3.3 seconds from the eighth-mile timer to the quarter-mile finish!). He felt it would have run 160 the next pass, but we were kicked out for not having a parachute." John said all that with an even tone, as if it was nothing.

87camracer

08-02-2004, 03:12 PM

Every one of these threads are so predictable. Someone talks bad about a Civic and here comes RawAzzLT1 with his links and 87camracer right behind talking about how cheap and easy it is to make these civics fast. :think:

whats even more predictable is that the domestic owners that feel the need to bash someone who has a different opinion as them, come in here thinking they can spout off BS and when Geoff or I prove them wrong, they get all pissed off and start with the personal attacks. case in point, Robvas.

Chris89Stang

08-02-2004, 03:23 PM

whats even more predictable is that the domestic owners that feel the need to bash someone who has a different opinion as them, come in here thinking they can spout off BS and when Geoff or I prove them wrong, they get all pissed off and start with the personal attacks. case in point, Robvas.
Looking at URL of this site Camaroz28.com

OH MY GOD! Some people are talking bad about imports on a domestic car site. Imagine that...... :rolleyes:

87camracer

08-02-2004, 03:26 PM

Looking at URL of this site Camaroz28.com

OH MY GOD! Some people are talking bad about imports on a domestic car site. Imagine that...... :rolleyes:

the name doesnt make bullsh*t true tho. because if it did i would start a site with the same name and say that all ls1s are 12 second cars and that all fox bodies are 13 second cars bone stock. and if yours doesnt run that, then something is wrong.

i have zero problem with someone poking fun at a car. what i DO have a problem with is someone spouting off bull****.

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 03:39 PM

Jason hunt has a 5 speed honda. full interior street car that runs 9.54@153 now lets see...you drive a 14 second mustang that has a 2.2 60 foot. so tell me whats a pos?

since we are talking about the honda in this story. regardless of how you feel, u can never beat it. you can talk about hypothetical situation until you are blue in teh face.

Hey riceboy, I've got a non hypothetical situation, since you claim that Steve Y could never beat this mid 9 second Honda that you are jizzing over.

http://www.modularpower.com/wordlsfastest.htm

That's a stock bodied Mustang using a SOHC 4.6 motor. Hmmmm, looks to me that Steve has a stock bodied Mustang of that same bodystyle...... Oh, and what else? He also has a 4.6 SOHC motor! If you'll read the article, you'll see that they say- "the car still has a VIN, license plate, registration and insurance." !!!! You know what else is funny, that car runs 8.77 at 160 mph. It's funny because that Mustang would completely embarrass that Civic that you are so crazy about. If Steve were so inclined, and wanted to throw some money into his Mustang, then street car to street car he could take that Civic to from a dig, roll on, you name it.

If you want to know about LT1 performance, please refer to this thread- http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245348&highlight=fastest+LT1

This paragraph written below came straight from "Injuneer" in that thread, one of the most respected and knowledgeable members on this site-

"For several years, the top guns in LT1 were Dave "Sled" DeLuca, Brian "Madman" Jeffrey and George Baxter. Sled (N2O) and Madman (ATI S/C) ran low 9.1x, 155's. Baxter (Vortech S/C) ran 9.04@155mph, in a 3,900# 30th SS convertible. That record stood for almost 2 years, until Chris topped it. George's engine made 1,125flywheelHP - engine dyno proven. 4-bolt LT1 block, Canfield LT4 heads, LT4 intake, Hooker LT's, TH400, 9-inch rear.

I think that the informal "rules" (we actually sponsored a "Fastest F-Body" meet) were LT1 block, 23deg heads, stock "style" suspension... all components in stock location, torque arm, etc. No clutchless trannies."

I'm not going to argue what a street car is, or isn't because it's all up to an agreement between the racers or the competition they are in. The cars talked about above used stock LT1 blocks, stock style heads and suspension. As you can see, an almost 4,000 lb convertable ran half a second faster than your "god's gift" Honda that you keep talking about. Not only did it run half a second faster, it did it at least two years ago.

No one in this thread really gives a sh*t about you posting links up, fastest honda this, fastest honda that, blah blah blah. Please realize that for the most part, we've grown up, and we're done playing with toys(hondas). I just gave you multiple examples of of full weight, stock suspended, stock block Mustang and Camaros that all have your stupid mid 9 second civic covered by about half a second or more.

A car that runs 9.5 @ 150-something is going to be playing catchup out of the hole to a car that runs 9.5 @ 140-something, idiot.

Listen to him, fu<ktard, he's right. If you can't understand the logic behind that, then you need to go out and get an education.

In closing- :Owned:

Chris89Stang

08-02-2004, 03:49 PM

the name doesnt make bullsh*t true tho. because if it did i would start a site with the same name and say that all ls1s are 12 second cars and that all fox bodies are 13 second cars bone stock. and if yours doesnt run that, then something is wrong.

i have zero problem with someone poking fun at a car. what i DO have a problem with is someone spouting off bull****.
Bull**** or not this is primarily a domestic site and you (and RawAzzLT1) have to get thicker skin and suck it up if you don't want to read about people bashing imports here. It's going to happen no matter how many links of OTHER peoples cars you post trying to prove them wrong.

BTW, if Civics are so cheap to make fast why don't you own one? Reading you guys posts it would be a heck of a lot easier making one of those fast than a 3rd gen.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 04:51 PM

Holy crap Fastz talk about butthurt. I never said that there wasnt a faster mustang, I said that STEVE Y can never have a faster car. I gurantee 100% that steven will never run 11's. I have met tons of people like him that are all talk. he obviously doesnt have the funds or means to make his car fast so he makes up for his insecurity by talking ****. saying u can do xxx mods to a pinto, but its still a pinto has ZERO to do with teh story posted here. that there is butthurtdom.

If you notice I made sure to always refer to Taners car as a 6 speed LT1. I can tell you. if it wa sa built auto he would probably be low 9's making him quick than teh Honda. few years ago George baxter had the fastest "street" lt1. with his 383 vortech Y trim z28 that ran low 9's at over 150 ( may that car RIP ) was a built auto. I am well aware of what an auto fbody or stang can do. I am positive that Taner is too. but he chose to keep a stick. and thats what I am comparing.

Why am I comparing? I didnt post it to say "haha the honda is faster" I simple asked two question when i psted it.

(1) if taners car doesnt suck why does this honda suck if its fwd yet faster
(2) if you can run mid 9's in a fwd car with lots more room to go why exactly is a rwd car superior ( street cars)

6 years ago hondas couldnt break 12's, all you need was a cam and intake to beat a turbocharged one. thats all you had to say. now you have to talk about about top fuel dragsters. and you feel justifed about it. if 9's and 10's isnt accetable in a fwd car then why is it acceptable in a rwd car. that sall I wanna know.

almost every post I made on this thread had a smiley face. and not one insult. but every other person is so upset that a honda beat a blown mustang that they feel insults will soothe them. geez :(

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 05:04 PM

Bull**** or not this is primarily a domestic site and you (and RawAzzLT1) have to get thicker skin and suck it up if you don't want to read about people bashing imports here. It's going to happen no matter how many links of OTHER peoples cars you post trying to prove them wrong.

BTW, if Civics are so cheap to make fast why don't you own one? Reading you guys posts it would be a heck of a lot easier making one of those fast than a 3rd gen.

This is a Domestic site? really? :p I have a domestic. one of which I am proud of, if you search my archived posts you will see I started off with a 93 z28. then a 99 ls1t/a, a 94 lt1 t/a and now a 00 ws6. that makes me on my 4th fbody.so yeah, I kinda like em..

i saw teh thread and didnt even respond until this question was asked by warwickbass "How many thousand dollars does it take to make a honda that fast I responded with roughly what it takes and **** hit the fan..

and I happen to own a very fast Civic. not the fastest car in the world. but it holds its own its faster than my ws6 is for the money spent. both cars offer something the other doesnt. so its a must I have both. chris, why are you so angry man :confused:

and why ask questions that you already drew your own conclusion on?
If I showed you the price and labor for making a full weight honda to run 10's it would just be more **** hitting the fan.. more "well i can get a old 5.0 and do this and that and beat that" even though that has nothing to do with the topic. so why bother?

ya'll need some alcohol or pu$$y because you take things too personal. its just cars fellas. no need to insult and get angry over numbers. :cool:

87camracer

08-02-2004, 06:02 PM

Bull**** or not this is primarily a domestic site and you (and RawAzzLT1) have to get thicker skin and suck it up if you don't want to read about people bashing imports here. It's going to happen no matter how many links of OTHER peoples cars you post trying to prove them wrong.

BTW, if Civics are so cheap to make fast why don't you own one? Reading you guys posts it would be a heck of a lot easier making one of those fast than a 3rd gen.

i dont care if its friendly banter. hell i do that. thats all in good fun. what i AM talking about (and ill repeat it for the THIRDtime in JUST this thread) is the all out bashing of a car because its not what you like. thats like me picking a fight with you because i dont like your shirt. sure, some people do it, but how mature are those people?

as far as my 3rd gen. its slow. period. it will NEVER be fast. in fact i rarely drive it anymore because of bad oil pressure and an uknown cause. why dont i own a honda? because i just bought an 04 Chevy Colorado. after the initial hit of sales tax and liscensing ect goes away my funds will go towards getting an Integra GSR. which BTW, will be subjected to the very mods ive talked about here. right now im just saving money to get it. if i sell the trans am, my insurance goes up 200 a month. (ironic that i have to keep my sports car to make insurance cheaper isnt it? :confused: :lol: )

warwickbass

08-02-2004, 06:08 PM

Heh, look at the mayhem I created.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 06:16 PM

Heh, look at the mayhem I created.

U sure did, you and your damn questions :p

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 06:18 PM

I have a question for everyone here.. are you currently building a car to run mid 9's or better?

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 06:47 PM

almost every post I made on this thread had a smiley face. and not one insult. but every other person is so upset that a honda beat a blown mustang that they feel insults will soothe them. geez :(

I think you've just missed the whole point. I don't care that a Civic beat a mustang, and I don't think anyone else here does either. I'm sure there are plenty of Civics that could beat me. The issue here is, to prove your point, you come on here, blasting off about how superior honda products are to Mustangs and F-bodies. I don't know if you do it on purpose or not, but you do it. Then you throw out specifications on other peoples cars, when one of these threads comes up your are so predictable in what you'll say.

About referencing taners car, if we're talking cars in the 9's, does it matter what trans they run?

You need to realize that with the money that people you interact with on this site have spent on their Fbodies they could have bought a Civic, or an Integra. They didn't because they prefer Fbodies over Hondas. I can't blame them, because I did the same thing. You won't catch me in a built Honda, because I'd rather be in a built Camaro. That's my perogative. I think the platform is better, and I don't care what you say, but dollar for dollar I think I'll have more fun/run faster in the Camaro. You can debate what's faster per dollar all day, but I've made my choice.

There's a reason that everyone around here that starts out modding a Honda soon graduates to something else. They get bored with it, they don't get the performance out of it that they want, whatever. They sell it to some 16 year old kid that wants to be fast and furious then they buy something else to make fast.

87camracer

08-02-2004, 07:03 PM

There's a reason that everyone around here that starts out modding a Honda soon graduates to something else. They get bored with it, they don't get the performance out of it that they want, whatever. They sell it to some 16 year old kid that wants to be fast and furious then they buy something else to make fast.

if thats the case, then how come im going from an fbody to a honda? only to be faster than a good percentage of fbodies in my area and some on here for the same amount of money i have in my 91? :confused:

warwickbass

08-02-2004, 07:09 PM

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 07:09 PM

About referencing taners car, if we're talking cars in the 9's, does it matter what trans they run?

I agree with what you said. basically different strokes for differnt folks. which really was my point all along. but the question I have for you is.. if we're talking cars in the 9, does it matter what car it is?

87camracer

08-02-2004, 07:35 PM

First mistake: You have a '91 Trans Am. 3rd Gen is slow, dude.

funny, ive only lost to 1 LT1 and that was a 6 speed from a roll... :confused:

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 07:48 PM

if thats the case, then how come im going from an fbody to a honda? only to be faster than a good percentage of fbodies in my area and some on here for the same amount of money i have in my 91? :confused:

I'm sorry, but what you say is speculation. You don't have a Honda. Why don't you get one, then you can talk about who you are faster than after you race some people. Kthanx.

but the question I have for you is.. if we're talking cars in the 9, does it matter what car it is?

That's where the diferrent strokes for diferrent folks come in. I'd rather be in an Fbody going 9's than a Civic going 9's. I'd rather be able to pull a wheel or two off the ground on a hard launch, and I'd rather hear a V8 wind up than a four cylinder.

I'm not all out race, so the platform that I'm running still makes a big diferrence to me.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 07:54 PM

That's where the diferrent strokes for diferrent folks come in. I'd rather be in an Fbody going 9's than a Civic going 9's. I'd rather be able to pull a wheel or two off the ground on a hard launch, and I'd rather hear a V8 wind up than a four cylinder.

I'm not all out race, so the platform that I'm running still makes a big diferrence to me.

Thats an opinion I can respect. :thumb:

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:05 PM

Why do I have to build my car till it hits 11s to impress you Raw? Plenty of Mustangs have already done it. I have plenty of money to do so, I just spend it on other things. If you don't believe me, then come to Reno and I will show you my house, cars and stock certificates! How am I talking bs? Fact: Civics and fwd suck compared to rwd and Camaros and Stangs for 1/4 mile drag racing. I saw a street legal parachuted Stang run an 8.2 at 165 in Sac about 4 years ago! Stangs have gone faster than F-bodies because of their popularity and the aftermarket for them (fact). Both Stangs and Camaros have way more potential than a Civic for a fast car (fact). Way bigger engines mean less revs and more reliablility to get the same job done (fact). Civics sound like ass (opinion), look like ass (opinion) and are way slower than a Stang or F-body mod for mod (FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

warwickbass

08-02-2004, 08:13 PM

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:16 PM

Even though you own a Mustang, I agree with you 100%.

Hey, I like F-bodies a lot too! :D I've driven, raced with and against and wrenched on plenty of 3rd gens, LT1s and LS1s.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:18 PM

The fastest n/a LS1 with stock displacement (and stock short block!) has run mid 9s at 145ish. What do you think it would run with the same turbo pressure and built motor that your holy grail :rolleyes: Civic has? It would be TOTAL AND COMPLETE ANNHILIATION for the poor little week whacker. :cry: :(

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:27 PM

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 08:31 PM

Ok RawAzz...... I'll play your game since you've asked it a few times......

I'm not planning on building my car to run mid 9s.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:31 PM

it would blow up into 5 million peices. quick question. are you currently building a car to run mid 9's?

It would not blow up if it had the built engine which I specified above. Can you read? Hell no, i'm not building a car to run mids 9's, why do you ask?

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:34 PM

It would not blow up if it had the built engine which I specified above. Can you read? Hell no, i'm not building a car to run mids 9's, why do you ask?

ok your not building a street or race car to run 9's just how fast does a street car need to be?

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:36 PM

Ok RawAzz...... I'll play your game since you've asked it a few times......

I'm not planning on building my car to run mid 9s.

same thing, how fast does a street car need to be?

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:39 PM

ok your not building a street or race car to run 9's just how fast does a street car need to be?

It does not need to be fast at all. It could have a top speed of 65 mph and get by. What is your point of leading this discussion this direction?

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:42 PM

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:47 PM

It does not need to be fast at all. It could have a top speed of 65 mph and get by. What is your point of leading this discussion this direction?

Thats funny because if I show u a 12 second civic, you talk about an 11 second v8, if I show you a 10 second honda, you talk about a 9 second v8. if I show you a 9 sec honda..... so thats why I wanted to know where the limit is. because honestly man, if I show you a mid 9 second street honda and you talk about faster cars. then obviously you dont feel a mid 9 second street car is fast enough. when you see 10 second fbody's do you say, "there are 8 second stangs. and other fbodys that run 8's so thats nothing."?

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 08:48 PM

same thing, how fast does a street car need to be?

Mid 8's:metal:

Actually my street car needs to be however fast a set of ported heads, custom cam, nitrous and all the supporting mods get me.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 08:49 PM

Steve, while you are answering my question, I wanna add this. I have never seen a street v8 especially an ls1 on high boost. they lift heads at 15psi. secondly running high boost doesnt mean that the motor is getting it all. heads and intake can be a restriction. intercoolers can only cool so much air before you need a liquid aftercooler. so dont feel you can run 30+psi on an ls1 or any street v8. lots of things would have to be changed. especiaally cooling

Yeah, stock motored ones MAY lift heads. Not built motors meant to take boost. The motor is getting it all, where else would it go? Psi is just a measure of backpressure, not flow. Yes, the motor would have to be built to run 30 psi reliably, just like the Civic engine.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 08:53 PM

Yeah, stock motored ones MAY lift heads. Not built motors meant to take boost. The motor is getting it all, where else would it go? Psi is just a measure of backpressure, not flow. Yes, the motor would have to be built to run 30 psi reliably, just like the Civic engine.

bro, there hasnt been a built ls1 to this date that has run boost even close to that. do you know something that all the engine builders dont know? its not possible. this is why the C5R block is needed to safely push power over 800horse....show me some proof man, seriously. if there is something I missed I would really like to see. I have reseaarched this to death.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:08 PM

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 09:11 PM

Thats funny because if I show u a 12 second civic, you talk about an 11 second v8, if I show you a 10 second honda, you talk about a 9 second v8.

That's because you make it sound like Honda's are the only one's that can do it because you say things like this-

I have seen 700hp mustangs get beat by 450hp hatchbacks. I even have videos if you wanna host them for me. you are not guranteed to win anything becauase you have a powerful 8 cylinder. one in particular I have a video of this guy raping a 785rwhp mustang I mean by bustlengths.

well Taner has a street lt1 6 speed. runs 9.58@143..Jason hunt has a 5 speed honda. full interior street car that runs 9.54@153 now lets see... both cars are manual tranny, both cars are street cars, the honda has full interior. taners z28 has no back seat. one is rwd the other is fwd. yet the fwd car is quicker and faster. so not only can he take taner out the hole. he can rape him from a roll.Imagine that.

the fastest 6 speed street lt1 in America is slower than the fastest street honda. that is a fact you can bitch and moan all you want. it cuts better et's and trap speeds.

you can live in denial all you want, your opinion is superseded by the FACT that a fwd street honda can run faster than every street car on this site.

This is why people are showing you these things. You make claims like the fastest 6 speed street lt1 in America is slower than the fastest street honda, which I think I posted some links to disprove you. If you don't want to argue with people, and have them call you out, then all you have to do is not post crap talking like the quotes I have above. Plain and simple.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 09:14 PM

bro, there hasnt been a built ls1 to this date that has run boost even close to that. do you know something that all the engine builders dont know? its not possible. this is why the C5R block is needed to safely push power over 800horse....show me some proof man, seriously. if there is something I missed I would really like to see. I have reseaarched this to death.

Why don't you research Pro 5.0. I think they are getting 2000 horses out of V8 Fords, plenty to waste any little weed whacker Civic! :bow: It's only a matter of time and research until they could do it with LS1s.

Steve Y

08-02-2004, 09:18 PM

You speak about many "what if's" lots of theoretical and hypothetical situations and most times way wrong. from it taking 27psi to make 350hp in a civic down to. being able to run high boost on a v8. I can assure you v8's that see high boost are torn down very often to be examined for stress, the rod to stroke ratio on most 8 cylinder motors are not good. do you know what teh rod to stroke ratio is on an ls1?

I know, the magical Civic motor can take 10 million psi in stock form, make 10 billion horsepower and live forever. It is special because it is Honda. Nothing else even comes close. Like the Civic motor would never need torn down. :rolleyes: Like the rod to stroke ratio couldn't be changed on the V8. :rolleyes: God, you are like talking to a retarded monkey.

Oracle17

08-02-2004, 09:18 PM

wow, I stopped checking in here to find this monster thread

Title, the participants and the arguments all sound the same

However, I do love Robvas input on the threads... sounds very very "constructive"

I believe the original question was something like "Why do people mod civics"

I believe in the 10 pages here the answer was given.

They are light
They are cheap
They have a huge aftermarket
They can go very fast

Would you bash someone who tried to build a 3rd gen camaro? Isn't a 93-02 camaro a much better platform?

So if you take this quote by FastZ and switch civic for camaro and honda for fbody you get another answer to the question "why mod a civic"

"they could have bought a Civic, or an Integra. They didn't because they prefer Fbodies over Hondas. I can't blame them, because I did the same thing. You won't catch me in a built Honda, because I'd rather be in a built Camaro. That's my perogative. I think the platform is better, and I don't care what you say, but dollar for dollar I think I'll have more fun/run faster in the Camaro. You can debate what's faster per dollar all day, but I've made my choice. "

It is fun to watch you guys argue however I hope you guys realize you aren't going to change each others minds. And steve-y, I thought you had a more mild opinion on civics after sergio. I guess I was wrong

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:18 PM

Fast Z. Taner is the fastest 6 speed lt1 in the country, you did not disprove this. and the honda is faster.and keep in mind those comments came after your comments. "I know this one guy with a turbo integra that traps 115, so where the mph?" and if you gather that I am acting like only hondas can do that as you so put it. then again you failed to see the picture.

Its Steve that is caught up on drag racing, I dont even like the sport of drag racing. he claims that a fwd is bad for drag. even tough you can run 9's in a street car with fwd, and even after adminiting that you dont need to go that fast. forteh last time fast z me talking about taner and jason hunt was to get some understanding as to why...

a z28 running mid 9's and a honda running mid 9's.(and faster mind you) someone can come to the conclusion that fwd is bad for drag racing. when the street v8 is doing the same? I mean. the lt1 cant go any faster with a manual tranny. so how is the fwd bad? its a mid 9 second street car how is that bad?

lets be realistic. if the honda ran 9.54 and is bad. then how can the 9.58 z28 be considered good? thats all I want to know. thats just a double standard there steming from a HUGE bias. at least admit it.

KamaroL98

08-02-2004, 09:24 PM

it would blow up into 5 million peices. quick question. are you currently building a car to run mid 9's?

Not if its tuned and has strong enternals.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:31 PM

Not if its tuned and has strong enternals.

these ls1's have built motors Turbo ls1's (http://www.blackls1ta.com/boosted_list.htm)

KamaroL98

08-02-2004, 09:34 PM

I dont know anything about turbos or chargers on LS1s, i prefer nitrous instead. Instead of boosting the same as a honda, i would do my own thing and spray the eye ballz out of my car. And i have and will.

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 09:34 PM

Fast Z. Taner is the fastest 6 speed lt1 in the country, you did not disprove this.

The transmission thing is just a stipulation because you know that an auto LT1 car will be quicker. If you want to call out LT1's and compare them to your quickest street legal honda in the country, then any trans is fair game. Humor me and tell me what street legal civics with autos run in the 1/4.

The quote I disproved you on was this one-

you can live in denial all you want, your opinion is superseded by the FACT that a fwd street honda can run faster than every street car on this site.

I posted links to LT1 cars on this site that run low 9s and would be considered a "street car" just as much as the civic you are talking about is. Stock block, stock suspension setup, one was even a 3900 lb convertable. That is what I disproved you on.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:37 PM

There are no automatic turbo hondas anywhere in the sport. they are all 5 speeds. all the 6,7,8 and 9 seconds hondas are all 5 speed. ( stock tranny too ;)) thats why I compare manual to manual

KamaroL98

08-02-2004, 09:40 PM

Yea, the fastest 6 speed isnt going to be as fast as the fastest LT1 with an automatic. I dont know what the fastest one runs, but my friends LT1 is quicker with a 3 speed then the worlds fastest LT1. Not by alot, but its also a 'street' car and i doutn he or the worlds fastest civic and Lt1 with a 6 speed could follow me on a 3 hour road trip, stop through a drive trough, then come all the way back home coasting 80-90mph the whole way and pull straight up to the drag strip and outrun my little 11 sec car drag radial on stock sized tire. Everyone has there own def. of a street car, and thats mine. Mainly becaus my buddy with the 9sec LT1 always picks on me wanting to race, and that the only way i can get out of it becaus in 245/50 nittos it wont go anywhere. :D

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:43 PM

Yea, the fastest 6 speed isnt going to be as fast as the fastest LT1 with an automatic. I dont know what the fastest one runs, but my friends LT1 is quicker with a 3 speed then the worlds fastest LT1. Not by alot, but its also a 'street' car and i doutn he or the worlds fastest civic and Lt1 with a 6 speed could follow me on a 3 hour road trip, stop through a drive trough, then come all the way back home coasting 80-90mph the whole way and pull straight up to the drag strip and outrun my little 11 sec car.

Thats the best part about turbos. you dont have to boost if you dont want to it will drive 100% like stock if you do go under boost.

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 09:44 PM

There are no automatic turbo hondas anywhere in the sport. they are all 5 speeds. all the 6,7,8 and 9 seconds hondas are all 5 speed. ( stock tranny too ;)) thats why I compare manual to manual

Which is why it's not fair to compare the only legitimate option in drag race honda trannies to the minority(six speeds) in all out drag race Fbodies.

brain

08-02-2004, 09:48 PM

Just a heads up on that motor - It has Eagle rods and JE pistons. Stock crank, etc. And a blockguard, no sleeves. MAYBE $1000 in the motor all said and done. The guy that has that car stole it from the previous owner, he paid 4K with the GSR swap sans turbo kit. Turbo kit was $2000 used, with a Precision SC61 turbo. He walked that Cobra with 8 psi on pump gas. It can safely run 16 - 20 psi on race gas, which would put it 400+ WHP. Also, the car only weighs 2350, not 2700. A teg weighs in around 2750. The reason the car didnt pull from a stop is the turbo. No boost until about 6K, so it lags. Once it spools, it breaks loose, shift, drop out of boost, get back in, spin, repeat 4 times. It does have a good valvetrain for 10K rpms. I think he's only turning 8800 or so. No need to chance it. No dyno or e.t. yet, as the only local one closed for a few months, but the car did beat an SRT-4 that runs 110, plus he was only running 6 psi then. Can't deny that the honda B-series is a phenomenal platform. Head flow is killer. Face it guys, the Civic is the Mustang of a new generation.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:49 PM

Which is why it's not fair to compare the only legitimate option in drag race honda trannies to the minority(six speeds) in all out drag race Fbodies.

Im gonna tell you one last time.. I know its not a fair comparison. high tq low reving v8's are best with autos. I know its not a fair comparison. however..

my comparison( and this has to be the 5th time I am explaining this) my comparison was to get closure on how a fwd chassis sucks for drag racing when a street car can run 9's with it. notice I didnt even mention 6 second civics? because thats a whole other ball game. I specifially said street cars. if u can run mid 9's in a 6 speed lt1 and run the same in a fwd honda. how exactly is it bad? thats what the comparison was about

everybody knows that a built auto on a 900hp camaro should get low 9's this is no secret.

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:52 PM

FastZinTennessee

08-02-2004, 09:53 PM

Im gonna tell you one last time.. I know its not a fair comparison. high tq low reving v8's are best with autos. I know its not a fair comparison. however..

my comparison( and this has to be the 5th time I am explaining this) my comparison was to get closure on how a fwd chassis sucks for drag racing when a street car can run 9's with it.

I know it's a bad comparison:lol:

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:56 PM

Steve said...

I'm sure it was a bone stock, full interior, a/c daily driver Civic with an 8 psi intercooled turbo kit as it's only mod. :rolleyes:

Brain then said...

Just a heads up on that motor - It has Eagle rods and JE pistons. Stock crank, etc. And a blockguard, no sleeves. MAYBE $1000 in the motor all said and done. The guy that has that car stole it from the previous owner, he paid 4K with the GSR swap sans turbo kit. Turbo kit was $2000 used, with a Precision SC61 turbo. He walked that Cobra with 8 psi on pump gas.

LMAO!!!!

KamaroL98

08-02-2004, 09:56 PM

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 09:58 PM

the civic in this story beat a blown cobra while he had 3 people in it on 8psi LMAO

KamaroL98

08-02-2004, 10:01 PM

the civic in this story beat a blown cobra while he had 3 people in it on 8psi LMAO

Thats a "mustang" for ya. :lol:

Although, i think it had more then 8psi that race..

Oracle17

08-02-2004, 10:22 PM

[QUOTE=FastZinTennessee]The transmission thing is just a stipulation because you know that an auto LT1 car will be quicker. If you want to call out LT1's and compare them to your quickest street legal honda in the country, then any trans is fair game. Humor me and tell me what street legal civics with autos run in the 1/4.
QUOTE]

Okay FastZ, not trying to put words in your mouth but I'm going to try to make a connection here.

(previously said in the thread) "Modding civics are stupid because a f-body can go faster modded then a civic can modded"

Now you said "An auto LT1 car will be quicker then a m6 lt1 car (fully modded)

SO doesn't that make modding a m6 lt1 car stupid because an auto is a better platform?

Well that brings up "thats a stupid comment cause I don't want the world's fastest lt1 and i enjoy a m6 even though it doesn't have the absolute potential an auto does"

Now can't that comment be equally said for import drivers? I'd rather have a 12 second ls1 then a 12 second civic but I'd rather have a 12 second ls1 AND a 12 second gsr wtih a type-r front end conversion kit. I don't see why anyone would call a 12 second civic "crap" or the many other names mentioned earlier

RawAzzLT1

08-02-2004, 10:25 PM

Steve Y

08-03-2004, 10:59 AM

Steve said...

Brain then said...

LMAO!!!!

You are a retarded troll! I meant bone ****ing stock with the addition of the turbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As in stock rods, crank, pistons, head, cam, intake, exhaust, transmission, half shafts, seats, a/c, etc. etc. etc. Can you read?

Steve Y

08-03-2004, 11:02 AM

the civic in this story beat a blown cobra while he had 3 people in it on 8psi LMAO

How do you know what psi he was running on that race? Were you in the car with him? And what would the Mustang Cobra with a built engine and an 8 psi intercooled turbo run? A lot faster than the POS weed whacker. Yeah, Civics are the Mustangs of the modern era except they are torqueless wonders with no power unless you do a power adder, a complete ground up engine and strip the hell out of them. They also look like ass, sound like ass and every idiot and their mother drives one. I want to see some links to manual tranny 6 second Civics, Raw. Do you know what an LS1 does with 5 and 8 psi turbo kits? John Lingenfelter had a Vette with 500 rw horses on 5 psi and 650 rw horses on 8 psi with very little internal work done. Little engines suck, Civics suck, and fwd sucks for drag racing (this is all compared to big engines, Stangs and Camaros, and rwd, of course).

87camracer

08-03-2004, 11:44 AM

How do you know what psi he was running on that race? Were you in the car with him? And what would the Mustang Cobra with a built engine and an 8 psi intercooled turbo run? A lot faster than the POS weed whacker. Yeah, Civics are the Mustangs of the modern era except they are torqueless wonders with no power unless you do a power adder, a complete ground up engine and strip the hell out of them. They also look like ass, sound like ass and every idiot and their mother drives one. I want to see some links to manual tranny 6 second Civics, Raw. Do you know what an LS1 does with 5 and 8 psi turbo kits? John Lingenfelter had a Vette with 500 rw horses on 5 psi and 650 rw horses on 8 psi with very little internal work done. Little engines suck, Civics suck, and fwd sucks for drag racing (this is all compared to big engines, Stangs and Camaros, and rwd, of course).

look at all the personal opinions. not one fact in there with the exception of the JL cars. where to start? ok here we go...

the mustang was running 8 psi according to brain and it sounds like that person knows both people in this story. considering he gave a breakdown of engine mods for the civic.

what does a built mustang engine have to do with this thread? i mean really. a stock GSR can make 350 at the ground with nothing but a bolt on turbo kit, proper fuel and exhaust and tuning. i proved that 6 pages ago. yet here we are talking about how weak the honda engine is.

torque doesnt matter. i dont want ANY torque in a FWD car. why? because there goes traction. but you know what? to make horsepower you have to have torque.

sounds and looks are subjective. but add a REAL catback and not an ebay fart tip special and they sound pretty decent. besides with a turbo you arent gonna hear the exhaust note anyway. and its funny, you talk about every idiot and their mother owning one? i see about 4 mustangs for every civic. which makes the saying "mustangs are like tampons, every pu**y has one" true.

and lastly, i personally view most ls1 turbo cars as dyno queens. they dont et or trap what i think they should given the amount of power they have.

i guess none of this has sunk into that thick ass head of yours yet. maybe one day hooked on phonics will finish learnin' you how to read. :rolleyes:

FastZinTennessee

08-03-2004, 12:32 PM

I specifially said street cars. if u can run mid 9's in a 6 speed lt1 and run the same in a fwd honda. how exactly is it bad? thats what the comparison was about

I disagree with this reasoning. An automatic transmission is well suited for for drag racing an Fbody because of race weight, engine powerband, and availability of parts such as line locks. For all out drag racing a manual in a dragrace Fbody is at a DISADVANTAGE. Since no one uses auto trannies(or so you say) in drag racing Hondas, using a manual is an ADVANTAGE in one. Keep in mind that I talked about race weight when saying that an auto is suited for an Fbody. Raceweight is directly related to characteristics of the vehicle platform. This is what we are arguing about, what's the better platform. I agree that a mid 9 second street car is more than anyone would ever need, but you made the comment that a 9.5X second street Civic is faster than EVERY street car on this site. On that statement you are wrong.

Okay FastZ, not trying to put words in your mouth but I'm going to try to make a connection here.

(previously said in the thread) "Modding civics are stupid because a f-body can go faster modded then a civic can modded"

Now you said "An auto LT1 car will be quicker then a m6 lt1 car (fully modded)

SO doesn't that make modding a m6 lt1 car stupid because an auto is a better platform?

Well that brings up "thats a stupid comment cause I don't want the world's fastest lt1 and i enjoy a m6 even though it doesn't have the absolute potential an auto does"

I don't understand what the issue is here. If you want all out drag racing in Fbodies, you need to go with an automatic trans. If you want to go roadracing, or maybe just to save some gas, it would be to your advantage to get a manual transmission. The manual trans has more "absolute" potential in roadracing or <gasp> autocross than does an automatic.

Once again, the issue is a 9.5X street Civic, which RawAzz claims to be the fastest street civic in America being faster than every street LT1 on this site. You cannot pick your advantage(manual trans in a Honda) and a competitors disadvantage(manual trans in an Fbody) and expect to prove anything, especially when dealing with two diferrent platforms suited for two diferrent transmissions.

87camracer

08-03-2004, 03:03 PM

I disagree with this reasoning. An automatic transmission is well suited for for drag racing an Fbody because of race weight, engine powerband, and availability of parts such as line locks. For all out drag racing a manual in a dragrace Fbody is at a DISADVANTAGE. Since no one uses auto trannies(or so you say) in drag racing Hondas, using a manual is an ADVANTAGE in one. Keep in mind that I talked about race weight when saying that an auto is suited for an Fbody. Raceweight is directly related to characteristics of the vehicle platform. This is what we are arguing about, what's the better platform. I agree that a mid 9 second street car is more than anyone would ever need, but you made the comment that a 9.5X second street Civic is faster than EVERY street car on this site. On that statement you are wrong.

I don't understand what the issue is here. If you want all out drag racing in Fbodies, you need to go with an automatic trans. If you want to go roadracing, or maybe just to save some gas, it would be to your advantage to get a manual transmission. The manual trans has more "absolute" potential in roadracing or <gasp> autocross than does an automatic.

Once again, the issue is a 9.5X street Civic, which RawAzz claims to be the fastest street civic in America being faster than every street LT1 on this site. You cannot pick your advantage(manual trans in a Honda) and a competitors disadvantage(manual trans in an Fbody) and expect to prove anything, especially when dealing with two diferrent platforms suited for two diferrent transmissions.

i disagree with you. on all points in fact. you ask most why they go manual to auto and they will say to get better ETs. NOT because a manual is at a disadvantage. if its some how hindering you at the track, they you need to learn to drive it before you add the power. then you start talking about clutches and things to handle a 9 second car and yes an auto is better in that regard. a clutch to hold 6 or 700 rwhp is not going to be easy to drive on the street in most cases.

i see your point that a manual tranny is at somewhat of an ET disadvantage but that has nothing to do with the engines output. you cant put a powerglide and 4.56 gears behind a stock TPI thats limited to 4500rpms and expect it to be fast. you have to cater the setup to the car. meaning, if you are going to run a stick then you will probably end up revving it to a decently high rpm. so you get an engine top end that caters to higher rpms and put in steeper gears. it isnt at the "disadvantage" that you are implying it is.

further more he said that civic (which isnt the fastest in america BTW) is faster than any 6 speed lt1 on this site. not any lt1, but any lt1 that has a manual just like the civic does.

robvas

08-03-2004, 04:52 PM

Lets see what ET's those Civics turn without slicks, and without being on the track...

Steve Y, go get a Vortech and lay it down on 99% of the Hondas out there

FastZinTennessee

08-03-2004, 07:04 PM

i disagree with you. on all points in fact. you ask most why they go manual to auto and they will say to get better ETs. NOT because a manual is at a disadvantage.

I'm gonna stop you right there. If people say, and it is true, that they go with an auto for better ET's, then a manual is most certainly at a disadvantage for drag racing in Fbodies.

i see your point that a manual tranny is at somewhat of an ET disadvantage but that has nothing to do with the engines output. you cant put a powerglide and 4.56 gears behind a stock TPI thats limited to 4500rpms and expect it to be fast. you have to cater the setup to the car. meaning, if you are going to run a stick then you will probably end up revving it to a decently high rpm. so you get an engine top end that caters to higher rpms and put in steeper gears. it isnt at the "disadvantage" that you are implying it is.

Yes it is, and it has to do with the chassis setup. Automatic transmissions help you get off the line by multiplying torque output from the motor. This torque is multiplied by the torque converter. With rear wheel drive, if you set up your suspension to efficiently transfer weight to the rear wheels you can take advantage of an automatic setup and its torque multiplication to get you off the line quicker. However, if you multiply the torque in the same manner with an auto in a front wheel drive car, you'll just blow the tires off. Now I know there are fwd cars cutting good short times, but you can see what I'm saying.

further more he said that civic (which isnt the fastest in america BTW) is faster than any 6 speed lt1 on this site. not any lt1, but any lt1 that has a manual just like the civic does.

Go back and read again. He said that the fastest street Civic is faster than the fastest street car on this site.

He also said that a particular Civic with a manual trans was faster than a certain six speed Camaro that we have on this site. That is true(according to the links he posted), but my point is, so what? I've just hashed out many times why manuals trannies in Fbodies are not the optimum setup for drag racing. Why compare what's optimal for hondas, and not optimal for Fbodies? Actually, don't answer that...... I know what you're trying to prove, I'm just not buying it!

:D

brain

08-03-2004, 07:12 PM

look at all the personal opinions. not one fact in there with the exception of the JL cars. where to start? ok here we go...

the mustang was running 8 psi according to brain and it sounds like that person knows both people in this story. considering he gave a breakdown of engine mods for the civic.

what does a built mustang engine have to do with this thread? i mean really. a stock GSR can make 350 at the ground with nothing but a bolt on turbo kit, proper fuel and exhaust and tuning. i proved that 6 pages ago. yet here we are talking about how weak the honda engine is.

Just a note - I thought it would be misunderstood, the CIVIC was running 8 psi on pump gas. Not sure on the mustang. I would presume it to be a Vortech s-trim on a stock motor, making circa 400 rwhp, coulda been more or less. My friend had a 96 cobra stock motor with a 15lb vortech made 499 rwhp, at least till it cracked the block.

Pentatonic

08-03-2004, 08:11 PM

Hmm..a 13 page Sport Compact vs. V8 RWD thread in which I have yet to post.

I see a great deal of posts from sport compact advocates (the usual suspects; RawAzzLT1 and 87camracer). Many of these posts are quoting the times of purpose built drag race cars. It seems that a Honda manual transmission car is running faster than Taner's LT1 manual car. It also seems as though this information was posted to imply that the Honda drag car was superior to Taners.

Take a look the LS1 at the top of the page:
http://www.blackls1ta.com/boosted_list_2003.htm
It runs 8.52@163 mph. Does this mean that this car is superior to the 100% of Hondas running slower than 8.52?

robvas

08-03-2004, 08:41 PM

Steve Y

08-03-2004, 08:59 PM

Lets see what ET's those Civics turn without slicks, and without being on the track...

Steve Y, go get a Vortech and lay it down on 99% of the Hondas out there

I already beat 98% of the Hondas out there with these simple mods. :D

Steve Y

08-03-2004, 09:04 PM

Back to the original argument...Mustang vs Civic

The fastest drag Mustangs are faster than the fastest Drag Civics (are Hondas even in the 6's yet?)

The fastest street Mustangs are much faster than the fastest street Civics

No Civic from the showroom is anywhere near the speed of a GT, much less a Mach 1 or Cobra
:p

Exactly! Which proves my point. Rwd is better than fwd for drag racing, Mustangs are better than Civics for drag racing and big engines are better than small ones for drag racing. All of this I just wrote is pure Fact, anybody that dares to argue with it is a moron. But somebody will argue with it, I bet. Also this 9.5 second Civic is way less fun to drive than the 9.5 second Camaro because the Civic has no power until the turbo spools and you rev the piss out of it. Big engines provide torque down low which is great for street driving, remember these are street cars!

87camracer

08-04-2004, 12:51 AM

Take a look the LS1 at the top of the page:
http://www.blackls1ta.com/boosted_list_2003.htm
It runs 8.52@163 mph. Does this mean that this car is superior to the 100% of Hondas running slower than 8.52?

ok ill bite. it means that the ls1 featured there is faster and makes more hp than the honda. end of story. no bullsh*t excuses no nothing. its faster.

its ironic that you post that actually. because had that been a honda running that time, there would be 6 more pages of biased bull**** about how a civic is bad for this or that. why cant someone straight up say "nice car", or "nice time" or whatever? why does there always have to be this stupid sh*t amongst domestic owners? and before you say import enthusiasts do it too, have a gander at 98% of the threads talking about domestics on honda tech. its assinine really.

steve, why not provide facts to supprt your BS? o thats right, 99% of it is OPINION. :rolleyes: you post some stupid unrelated BS and throw a fact or two in. facts have been provided to you yet you continue to spout off like a certain other member i know of... :rolleyes:

david97gsxr

08-04-2004, 02:25 AM

i havn't read this whole thread. and i'm not about to, but i skimmed over it. and i'd just like to say, fwd is soooo much better for drag racing, that's why top fuel, and funny cars use fwd....oh wait. i smoked a lot of crack earlier. nevermind.

Steve Y

08-04-2004, 10:34 AM

steve, why not provide facts to supprt your BS? o thats right, 99% of it is OPINION. :rolleyes: you post some stupid unrelated BS and throw a fact or two in. facts have been provided to you yet you continue to spout off like a certain other member i know of... :rolleyes:

Here are some FACTs for you (I have already posted them countless times!): Rwd is better than fwd for drag racing (weight transfer and traction), big engines are better than small ones for drag racing (more torque and hp potential), therefore Stangs are better than Civics for drag racing (rwd, bigger engines, a ton of aftermarket support, faster Stangs than Civics in all out race cars, etc). Now argue with me and make yourself look even dumber!

Pentatonic

08-04-2004, 12:30 PM

ok ill bite. it means that the ls1 featured there is faster and makes more hp than the honda. end of story. no bullsh*t excuses no nothing. its faster.

Indeed it is faster. However, you did not say that it was superior. That is because the enthusiasm about cars most people have on this site goes beyond merely which car has the greatest all-out drag racing potential (even though it looks to be the LS1's and the Mustangs in this case).

So a Civic out there run's 9's. So? An LS1 out there runs 8's and there are a couple of Mustangs running 7's. What's the point? In simple statistics, these are the cars that are on the outer fringes of the bell curve. They are certainly not the norm, and have little relavance to 99% of F-bodies and 99% of Civics. So now we are back to square 1. Unless we are on a "drag-race only" forum, most people enjoy cars for their styling, heritage, off-the showroom-floor performance, low-end torque, even size and interior room.

And for those reasons above and many others, depending on who you talk to, that is why we all like F-bodies here. For many of us, Civics do not fit the bill of a car that we would be enthused about.

Steve Y

08-04-2004, 09:09 PM

That 600 horse 1.6 liter 30 psi Honda motor is impressive. Sean Hyland built a 4.6 liter Cobra motor with 35 psi of turbo boost for a drag racer. It put out 1500 horses and 1000 ft/lbs. It has made 240 passes and still runs perfect. That is a good example of a blown Ford motor. The Cobra in this story is a poor example of a blown Ford motor. But props to the Civic for beating it either way. :bow:

KamaroL98

08-04-2004, 09:40 PM

In all honesty, i dont think it was a good example of a Blown Cobra, by seats of the pants feel i bet it only runs mid/high 12s on a good day.

87camracer

08-05-2004, 10:36 AM

Indeed it is faster. However, you did not say that it was superior. That is because the enthusiasm about cars most people have on this site goes beyond merely which car has the greatest all-out drag racing potential (even though it looks to be the LS1's and the Mustangs in this case).

So a Civic out there run's 9's. So? An LS1 out there runs 8's and there are a couple of Mustangs running 7's. What's the point? In simple statistics, these are the cars that are on the outer fringes of the bell curve. They are certainly not the norm, and have little relavance to 99% of F-bodies and 99% of Civics. So now we are back to square 1. Unless we are on a "drag-race only" forum, most people enjoy cars for their styling, heritage, off-the showroom-floor performance, low-end torque, even size and interior room.

And for those reasons above and many others, depending on who you talk to, that is why we all like F-bodies here. For many of us, Civics do not fit the bill of a car that we would be enthused about.

i can except that. as ive told you many times in the past i would. what i DONT except is for people to bash a car because its not what they like. thats what i hate. example, i think the 4th gen is would be completely worthless if it werent for the LT1, the LS1 and the T56. other than a good engine and tranny the 4th gen was nothing. thats my opinion. does that mean i can start runnin around spouting off BS statements about this and that? yes i can but lets be mature about it.

and Steve, you know exactly what opinionated BS i was talking about. i never tried to argue that FWD or small engines are better. what i argued was you bashing a car that went faster with a smaller engine and FWD than its RWD bigger engine counterpart.

Steve Y

08-05-2004, 10:47 AM

i can except that. as ive told you many times in the past i would. what i DONT except is for people to bash a car because its not what they like. thats what i hate. example, i think the 4th gen is would be completely worthless if it werent for the LT1, the LS1 and the T56. other than a good engine and tranny the 4th gen was nothing.

I agree with most of that. The highlights of the 4th gen F-body are the engine, trans, T-tops and not much else. There are a lot of drawbacks to them. But they have a special feel all their own. I would own one if they didn't have so many drawbacks to me.

and Steve, you know exactly what opinionated BS i was talking about. i never tried to argue that FWD or small engines are better. what i argued was you bashing a car that went faster with a smaller engine and FWD than its RWD bigger engine counterpart.

I just really dispise Civics, that's all. My opinions were showing through. We all have opinions. You don't like F-bodies much, that's fine. I respect your opinion.

Gos2Slo

08-05-2004, 03:17 PM

well Taner has a street lt1 6 speed. runs 9.58@143..Jason hunt has a 5 speed honda. full interior street car that runs 9.54@153 now lets see...

both cars are manual tranny, both cars are street cars, the honda has full interior. taners z28 has no back seat. one is rwd the other is fwd. yet the fwd car is quicker and faster. so not only can he take taner out the hole. he can rape him from a roll.Imagine that. again does taners car suck?

and on top of it all. you drive a 14 second mustang that has a 2.2 60 foot. so tell me whats a pos? there are so many fwd cars that will kill you. then what will you say? "if I did xxx mods I would beat you","my uncles cousins girlfriends sisters boyfriend has a mustang that can beat you" I think you should at least make your car break 10's before you start trash talking

since we are talking about the honda in this story. regardless of how you feel, u can never beat it. you can talk about hypothetical situation until you are blue in teh face. its very apparent that you dont have the fund, or just dont have the means to do anything to beat a car like that. therefore you argument is as redundant as your biased one sided opinions..

again does taners car suck? its slower even though its rwd. so does it suck?

GAH! I couldn't even read through the whole thread, this BS has to stop.

Point 1: Yes, there are Hondas and I4's that run in the nines, some even faster. HOWEVER, that is on RACE gas, no smog, and (more often than not) stripped down like crazy. They are not street cars, will not pass inspection/smog, and have shiatty driveability.

Point 2: The fastest pump gas B18/turbo street car I've heard of makes 300whp, on pump gas and with smog equipment intact. Reliability isn't damaged too much, as piston speeds, boost and timing are kept at less-than stratospheric levels. Your average supercharged or nitroused ponycar makes almost twice this much power, has massive traction advantages from RWD, and requires a lot less work and money to make a faster car.

Point 3: Boost IS a replacement for displacement, but not for torque, longevity, or bang-for-the-buck.

Point 4: A 98 Cobra STOCK makes 320hp at the crank. JUST adding a Vortech S-trim makes it 450hp. Add exhaust, SHM cams and/or heads, and you are quickly pushing 600hp. Your mythical Civic is MORE power than this on pump gas and stays street legal? NO FARKING WAY. The Mustang IS, however. Plus it had 3 passengers and smoked the Mustang? Pass the pipe, you've had enough crack for one day.

Point 5: Just because you CAN build a fast 4 banger does NOT make it logical or economical to do so. A V8 RWD car has vastly more potential and will be more reliable, torquier, more fun to drive, and cheaper to build. How is this a losing combination? I don't dish up respect for people that don't have the common sense to know that V8 engines are capable of making far more power than any 4-cylinder engine. If you can't afford a V8 car, fine, admit it. If a cheap Honda economy car is all you can afford, say so. Wasting your time and money making a slow car fast is a less-than-intelligent endeavour, and doing so will earn you precious little respect in most car circles.

Point 6: If 4-cylinder engines and FWD are superior (less moving parts as you say), how come Top Fuel, Indy, NASCAR, WRC, Sprints, Outlaws, Midgets, Pro Stock, and Formula One don't mass convert over? Because they know better. There's a thinker, eh?

Point 7: Everyone knows that once you're past about the 10.5 second ET's, that it's time to move to an automatic. This is not news to anyone who knows anything about cars or drag racing.

Taners car may be slower, but it still has plenty of potential left. Switching to a Th400 or a powerglide will probably drop several tenths, if not a .5 second off his current ET's. He can also probably smog his, and run it on pump gas, and drive it to work. The Honda is pretty much done, and any further mods will make it more of a track car and less of a street car than it already is.

Oh yeah, and you don't even need a ton of cubic inches to run fast times. Billy Glidden's Pro 5.0 doorslammer runs a 318CI Ford small block, and a .28 jet in his nitrous kit, running 6.80's on ET streets. He runs 7.20s without the nitrous on a 10.5W tire. This is on race gas of course, but he could always step up to alcohol and drop another .5 second. Potential, get it?

I'm done, this is exhausting and a whole lot frustrating. The fastest nitrous Honda in my town runs a 13.2 on slicks and a B18 swap. Most stock LS1 F bodies would beat him and laugh all the way down the strip.

Spend your time and money wisely, if you want to go fast in a street car, the V8 owns. :bow:

FastZinTennessee

08-05-2004, 03:34 PM

Oh god, here we go again:lol:

Gos2Slo

08-05-2004, 03:49 PM

Oh god, here we go again:lol:

lol, sorry, were ya'll done? If so, ignore me, I'll catch the next flame-war. :D

FastZinTennessee

08-05-2004, 03:56 PM

Nah we're always up for a good argument around here. Be my guest :D

KamaroL98

08-05-2004, 04:54 PM

Point 4: A 98 Cobra STOCK makes 320hp at the crank. JUST adding a Vortech S-trim makes it 450hp.
:

Im gonna say this again, this cobra didnt feel like a 450hp car at all. Im sure it was a stock cobra with a blower and nothing else. I think exhaust, but i dont know it even has headers. He bought the car w/ the blower on it and hasent done anything to it himself, i asked him how much boost he was useing and i dont think even he knows. :) I expected the civic to win, it has a built bottom end capable of takeing on all the boost in the world, why he was only useing 8lbs i have no idea. If he infact was in the first place, lol. You never know with them guys.

Gos2Slo

08-05-2004, 05:21 PM

Gotcha, it's possible the previous owner removed 4 of his spark plugs after the blower was installed or something. ;) That would make it all sound a bit more reasonable.

FastZinTennessee

08-05-2004, 05:48 PM

<sits back and waits for the turbo ricebucket brigade to show up>

:eek: :lol:

WS Sick

08-05-2004, 05:57 PM

http://www.turbo-kits.com/civic_turbo_kits.html

Gos2Slo

08-05-2004, 06:28 PM

And?

The ad from turbo-kits.com says:

"HP Gain: 75-100 HP (safely on stock engine)" Bringing a 160 HP Civic to 235-260 flywheel horspower. Only 200-300 hp to go!

(or were you planning on buying two?) :)

FastZinTennessee

08-05-2004, 06:36 PM

I don't know what that post was about, but I did notice that the first turbo kit only comes with 2 injectors......... ROFL! Maybe it was a typo? I mean, I've seen some grand national guys run 7 injectors before, have an extra one upstream of the manifold, but that's only on pretty extreme cars. Just adding two fuel injectors somewhere on a mildly turbo'd car is pretty f'king ghetto :o

Gos2Slo

08-05-2004, 06:43 PM

Yeah, that was cute. Also, a 50% increase in power on a 160hp engine isn't the same increase you see on a 320hp engine, but then again, we constantly battle "ricer math" that advertises 25hp from a throttle body swap. Hehe.

/Ooh look, STICKERS!!!

Steve Y

08-05-2004, 11:00 PM

GAH! I couldn't even read through the whole thread, this BS has to stop.

Point 1: Yes, there are Hondas and I4's that run in the nines, some even faster. HOWEVER, that is on RACE gas, no smog, and (more often than not) stripped down like crazy. They are not street cars, will not pass inspection/smog, and have shiatty driveability.

Point 2: The fastest pump gas B18/turbo street car I've heard of makes 300whp, on pump gas and with smog equipment intact. Reliability isn't damaged too much, as piston speeds, boost and timing are kept at less-than stratospheric levels. Your average supercharged or nitroused ponycar makes almost twice this much power, has massive traction advantages from RWD, and requires a lot less work and money to make a faster car.

Point 3: Boost IS a replacement for displacement, but not for torque, longevity, or bang-for-the-buck.

Point 4: A 98 Cobra STOCK makes 320hp at the crank. JUST adding a Vortech S-trim makes it 450hp. Add exhaust, SHM cams and/or heads, and you are quickly pushing 600hp. Your mythical Civic is MORE power than this on pump gas and stays street legal? NO FARKING WAY. The Mustang IS, however. Plus it had 3 passengers and smoked the Mustang? Pass the pipe, you've had enough crack for one day.

Point 5: Just because you CAN build a fast 4 banger does NOT make it logical or economical to do so. A V8 RWD car has vastly more potential and will be more reliable, torquier, more fun to drive, and cheaper to build. How is this a losing combination? I don't dish up respect for people that don't have the common sense to know that V8 engines are capable of making far more power than any 4-cylinder engine. If you can't afford a V8 car, fine, admit it. If a cheap Honda economy car is all you can afford, say so. Wasting your time and money making a slow car fast is a less-than-intelligent endeavour, and doing so will earn you precious little respect in most car circles.

Point 6: If 4-cylinder engines and FWD are superior (less moving parts as you say), how come Top Fuel, Indy, NASCAR, WRC, Sprints, Outlaws, Midgets, Pro Stock, and Formula One don't mass convert over? Because they know better. There's a thinker, eh?

Point 7: Everyone knows that once you're past about the 10.5 second ET's, that it's time to move to an automatic. This is not news to anyone who knows anything about cars or drag racing.

Taners car may be slower, but it still has plenty of potential left. Switching to a Th400 or a powerglide will probably drop several tenths, if not a .5 second off his current ET's. He can also probably smog his, and run it on pump gas, and drive it to work. The Honda is pretty much done, and any further mods will make it more of a track car and less of a street car than it already is.

Oh yeah, and you don't even need a ton of cubic inches to run fast times. Billy Glidden's Pro 5.0 doorslammer runs a 318CI Ford small block, and a .28 jet in his nitrous kit, running 6.80's on ET streets. He runs 7.20s without the nitrous on a 10.5W tire. This is on race gas of course, but he could always step up to alcohol and drop another .5 second. Potential, get it?

I'm done, this is exhausting and a whole lot frustrating. The fastest nitrous Honda in my town runs a 13.2 on slicks and a B18 swap. Most stock LS1 F bodies would beat him and laugh all the way down the strip.

Spend your time and money wisely, if you want to go fast in a street car, the V8 owns. :bow:

You sir are my new hero!!!!!!! :bow: :bow: Finally somebody that knows what they are talking about. Just like I said earlier Hondas suck, Civics suck, fwd sucks week whacker engines suck, fart cans suck, and small engines suck for drag racing, any questions?

warwickbass

08-05-2004, 11:32 PM

Heh. Thank you for that.

Steve Y

08-05-2004, 11:41 PM

Heh. Thank you for that.

Thank who for what?

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 09:17 AM

I posted the link with no info to let everyone be the judge, we know advertizers "glorify " their products just a bit.

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 11:46 AM

You sir are my new hero!!!!!!! :bow: :bow: Finally somebody that knows what they are talking about. Just like I said earlier Hondas suck, Civics suck, fwd sucks week whacker engines suck, fart cans suck, and small engines suck for drag racing, any questions?

yeah. 9 second fwd cars suck for drag racing but 14 second mustangs are best to drag race with. hurry up and tell me that..

(a) you could theoretically do xxx mods to run xx times. (even though your car now runs 14's)

(b) the only reason your car runs 14's is because you chose to do other things.( when in really you just cant afford to which explains why you talk so much)

(c) talk about other people cars that you dont own. and use them to represent the majority of v8's out there. including yours and the one in this story.

In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

Gos2Slo

08-06-2004, 12:19 PM

yeah. 9 second fwd cars suck for drag racing but 14 second mustangs are best to drag race with. hurry up and tell me that..

(a) you could theoretically do xxx mods to run xx times. (even though your car now runs 14's)

(b) the only reason your car runs 14's is because you chose to do other things.( when in really you just cant afford to which explains why you talk so much)

(c) talk about other people cars that you dont own. and use them to represent the majority of v8's out there. including yours and the one in this story.

In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

You're making less and less sense.

No, a FWD 9 second car is not faster than a 14 second car. We all know that. However, I would bet money it took a lot more time, effort, and cash to make a FWD I4 ANYTHING run faster than a 13.XXX, whereas most V8's can run in the nines for under $10K. Who is smarter? Just because it's harder does NOT mean it's better, or cooler, or faster. All it took was more expensive. Congratulations, import ownwers that want a sub 13 or 12 second car are living in fantasyland, and are in for more work and a lighter wallet than a RWD V8 driver.

In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

Jeezus, can you hear yourself? What I said was that a V8 has the potential and ability to reach into the 4 second ET range, 4 cylinders and FWD do NOT. Potential with a V8 is several times higher than a I4, at every horsepower level. The sheer volume of 8 cylinder displacement means they have more airflow, burn more fuel, and can take more boost/nitrous than a comparably built 4 banger.

This is not debatable, nor opinion, straight cold logical facts. if YOU don't know it already then leave the rest of us alone who do. :) Yes I may be a dick, but I'm right. The sooner import drivers come to terms with reality, the fewer spankings there will be, on and off the track.

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 12:32 PM

Cost 80k+ to get a 12 second viper. thats enough $ to get any car to run 10's is it dumb to buy a viper and modify it to drag race?

Gos2Slo and since we are no longer talking about street cars(dunno why) let me add.. keep in mind that Mustangs are faster than fbody's. and they are also cheaper to mod than fbodys. so why waste your time modding a camaro. why dont you get a stang. everyone should get mustangs and this site should change to mustang5.0.com

its a fact that ford Modular motors are stronger than all GM production motors. and have gone faster. so why mod an fbody. there will always be a faster mustang. so whats the point?

but anyway. lets not forget In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

street fbody runs 9's-"damn thats awesome, wish I was that fast. congratulations.

street honda runs 9's.."so? top fuel drag cars are faster. and mm&ff has this 8 second blown 351"
:D

Gos2Slo

08-06-2004, 01:56 PM

Cost 80k+ to get a 12 second viper. thats enough $ to get any car to run 10's is it dumb to buy a viper and modify it to drag race?

Yes, it is. For the money you can go much faster starting with a ponycar platform (cheap, light, V8 powered, RWD 2 door coupes.)

Gos2Slo and since we are no longer talking about street cars(dunno why)
We are still talking about cars, street and strip. How much money and time is spent by members of Honda forums to modify their cars just to try and keep up with a stock V8 ponycar? Lots. Don't forget it.

let me add.. keep in mind that Mustangs are faster than fbody's.

No they're not. I've had a 93 5.0 on spray and was big into Mustangs for several years. I promise I know a lot more about Mustangs than I do F bodies. They are light little cars with an amazing aftermarket, but they are still plagued by a small displacement V8. Stroking to a 347 decreases longevity due to the height of the ring package, and a 351W swap makes your large aftermarket change quite a bit.

and they are also cheaper to mod than fbodys. so why waste your time modding a camaro. why dont you get a stang. everyone should get mustangs and this site should change to mustang5.0.com

Cheaper to mod, yes. But the 50 cubic inches that we start with stock gives us a big leg up. Mustang 5.0 engines were rated stock at 215-225 horspower, ours are 275/285 or 305/325 for the LS1s. Bang for the buck, remember? Tell me why FWD and small engines will always be superior to RWD V8's, I love fairy tales.

Its a fact that ford Modular motors are stronger than all GM production motors. and have gone faster.

Documentation please, cite your sources. The DOHC Cobra motors in the 03-04 cars have a nodular iron block ,forged crank, rods and pistons. Helluva shortblock. But to get it you have to buy the $35K car, which could be spanked with a $10K LX1 and $25K in mods.

To say Ford mod motors are stronger than all GM motors (LS6, LS7, big blocks included, right?) and faster (never been to a dragstrip have you, aren't many mod motors there) is the most profoundly uneducated and ignorant statement I think I've ever heard. Everyone reading this post is now dumber for having read it, and I award you no points. No mod motor'ed car runs in TA or TF, and they all start out as 281's. Never gonna be a mountain motor.

so why mod an fbody. there will always be a faster mustang. so whats the point?

See my answer above, because F bodies, with all their shortcomings, start with a larger engine and better transmissions than fords. A stroked and poked 302 comes to a 331 or a 347, a stroked and poked 350 comes to a 383 or a 396. Would you like a calculator?

but anyway. lets not forget In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

You said it AGAIN? YOU ACTUALLY THINK it sounded smart enough the first time to REPEAT??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I'm not gonna respond to you anymore man, this is like having an argument with a bowl of warm pudding, and I don't have that kind of patience.

NEXT!

87camracer

08-06-2004, 02:09 PM

GAH! I couldn't even read through the whole thread, this BS has to stop.

so you post this crap?

Point 1: Yes, there are Hondas and I4's that run in the nines, some even faster. HOWEVER, that is on RACE gas, no smog, and (more often than not) stripped down like crazy. They are not street cars, will not pass inspection/smog, and have shiatty driveability.

got proof? because proof has already been posted that a full interior civic can run 9.54 and in fact weighed MORE because his car has a roll cage to run that time. but i guess hes lying about hit car.

Point 2: The fastest pump gas B18/turbo street car I've heard of makes 300whp, on pump gas and with smog equipment intact. Reliability isn't damaged too much, as piston speeds, boost and timing are kept at less-than stratospheric levels. Your average supercharged or nitroused ponycar makes almost twice this much power, has massive traction advantages from RWD, and requires a lot less work and money to make a faster car.

this proves that you DIDNT read the thread, because i myself put up 3 links to 3 different B18 GSR engines making 350 or more at the ground on a stock engine. and thats with less than 5k total in mods.

Point 3: Boost IS a replacement for displacement, but not for torque, longevity, or bang-for-the-buck.

your ignorance is showing here. horsepower cant increase without an increase in torque. its simple math. horsepower is a function of torque over time. which also explains why a civic doesnt make as much torque in the numberical sense, because its making that torque over a longer time period.

Point 4: A 98 Cobra STOCK makes 320hp at the crank. JUST adding a Vortech S-trim makes it 450hp. Add exhaust, SHM cams and/or heads, and you are quickly pushing 600hp. Your mythical Civic is MORE power than this on pump gas and stays street legal? NO FARKING WAY. The Mustang IS, however. Plus it had 3 passengers and smoked the Mustang? Pass the pipe, you've had enough crack for one day.

since when does it take more power to beat a heavier car? thats the whole reason most do a turbo civic or a turbo integra. they weigh less than 2800 lbs so its not going to take 450whp to beat a 450rwhp mustang. just like 350whp in an integra will run low 12s at 120mph but a 350rwhp camaro might run low 12s but its at about 10mph LESS.

Point 5: Just because you CAN build a fast 4 banger does NOT make it logical or economical to do so. A V8 RWD car has vastly more potential and will be more reliable, torquier, more fun to drive, and cheaper to build. How is this a losing combination? I don't dish up respect for people that don't have the common sense to know that V8 engines are capable of making far more power than any 4-cylinder engine. If you can't afford a V8 car, fine, admit it. If a cheap Honda economy car is all you can afford, say so. Wasting your time and money making a slow car fast is a less-than-intelligent endeavour, and doing so will earn you precious little respect in most car circles.

its a losing combination because its NOT WHAT EVERYONE WANTS. some people chose to go with a carbed big block in a 3rd gen to run low 11s or so. others go with a supercharged SBC or a turbocharged SBC to run the same times. sometimes it costs more. is that really any of your concern? further more, a basic turbo kit can be BUILT YOURSELF for less than 2500 bucks. the you need fuel so MAYBE a grand at the most, exhaust is another 4-500, and all the piping can be had for 230 bucks off honda tech. thats less than 4k total for a car that can make 350whp. and remember what i said 350whp in a teg with FULL INTERIOR can run? low 12s at 120mph. yes you can do full exhaust, and stall on an ls1 and run the same et but on the street, the integra will eat the camaro for lunch.

Point 6: If 4-cylinder engines and FWD are superior (less moving parts as you say), how come Top Fuel, Indy, NASCAR, WRC, Sprints, Outlaws, Midgets, Pro Stock, and Formula One don't mass convert over? Because they know better. There's a thinker, eh?

not really a thinker. i dont think FWD was ever said to be better than RWD. except at power production. but yes RWD is superior to FWD for all those types of racing listed. but that doesnt mean a 9 second FWD car is any slower than a 9 second RWD car.

Point 7: Everyone knows that once you're past about the 10.5 second ET's, that it's time to move to an automatic. This is not news to anyone who knows anything about cars or drag racing.

that so? because i know a guy expecting to run in the 9s in his 4th gen with a t56. i think i know a bit about cars and drag racing, considering ive been around them for over 15 years.

Taners car may be slower, but it still has plenty of potential left. Switching to a Th400 or a powerglide will probably drop several tenths, if not a .5 second off his current ET's. He can also probably smog his, and run it on pump gas, and drive it to work. The Honda is pretty much done, and any further mods will make it more of a track car and less of a street car than it already is.

since we like to bench race around here, taner can swap in that 400 and the civic can just turn up the boost. i really dont see the point here? smog his car? bull****. that car wouldnt have been federally legal back in 1968 much less today.

Oh yeah, and you don't even need a ton of cubic inches to run fast times. Billy Glidden's Pro 5.0 doorslammer runs a 318CI Ford small block, and a .28 jet in his nitrous kit, running 6.80's on ET streets. He runs 7.20s without the nitrous on a 10.5W tire. This is on race gas of course, but he could always step up to alcohol and drop another .5 second. Potential, get it?

what does a full on drag car have anything do with this arguement? o thats right, nothing. and junior, its not as simple as just pouring alcohol into the gas tank and go racing. but i would think someone with your automotive SUPREMACY should know that. :rolleyes:

I'm done, this is exhausting and a whole lot frustrating. The fastest nitrous Honda in my town runs a 13.2 on slicks and a B18 swap. Most stock LS1 F bodies would beat him and laugh all the way down the strip.

wow thats special. just means he either isnt spraying much or cant drive for ****. but i dont see how a NITROUS injected honda is comparable to a TURBOCHARGED honda... :confused:

Spend your time and money wisely, if you want to go fast in a street car, the V8 owns. :bow:

ya you go right ahead. then ill spend less and still be faster.

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 02:11 PM

does the word sarcasm mean anything to you?

anyway lets recap. you said its dumb to chose a viper over a pony car.many would agree your an idiot for that
you also said that fbodys are faster than mustangs..

modular motor are in the 6's lt1's and ls1's are not.

there are no fbodys running 7's on production motors.
4.6's 6's 200mph stock block (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/events/0312mm_modular/)

Randy Stinchcomb (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/events/0312mm_modular_15_z.jpg) that name ring a bell?
GM production motors cant do that? so why get a fbody?

but anyway. lets not forget In reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a 9 second fwd car. because. top fuel has 8 cylinders and rwd. just like a 14 second mustang GT. therfore.. a 14 second mustang actually runs 4's..because it has 8 cylinders and rwd... like a top fuel dragster. so in reality a 14 second mustang is faster than a fwd car that runs mid 9's.....

Morginie

08-06-2004, 02:34 PM

I have to admit this is the stupidist reading I have ever done in my life...seriously you guys can argue for thousands of pages and no one will reach an agreement. Seriously import owners, why come on here and express your opinions to F-Body enthusiasts (who are of course biased) unless your looking for an argument and a flame-war. Like cmon, grow up :mad:

Gos2Slo

08-06-2004, 03:00 PM

so you post this crap?
[quote]got proof? because proof has already been posted that a full interior civic can run 9.54 and in fact weighed MORE because his car has a roll cage to run that time. but i guess hes lying about hit car.

Doesn't really matter, how much money and effort did it take, and is the car still streetable?

this proves that you DIDNT read the thread, because i myself put up 3 links to 3 different B18 GSR engines making 350 or more at the ground on a stock engine. and thats with less than 5k total in mods.

Got me there, I gave up at page 6 or 7 I think. Is that on pump gas and at how many bar?

your ignorance is showing here. horsepower cant increase without an increase in torque. its simple math. horsepower is a function of torque over time. which also explains why a civic doesnt make as much torque in the numberical sense, because its making that torque over a longer time period.

Torque is what's measured, the horsepower is calculated off of that number at 5250 rpms. The Civic won't accellerate at the same rate as a torquey engine, and its powerband is narrower given the small displacement. Small motors are very peaky, the S2000 is an excellent example. Redline at what, 9K rpms? But Horsepower peaks at 8800? Gotta keep that critter screaming to keep it fun to drive. No thanks. Since large engines have a peak torque at lower rpms (a function of large volumes of air moving in and out) their torque curve is far broader and capable of doing more "work" per revolution than a smaller engine moving less air.

since when does it take more power to beat a heavier car? thats the whole reason most do a turbo civic or a turbo integra. they weigh less than 2800 lbs so its not going to take 450whp to beat a 450rwhp mustang. just like 350whp in an integra will run low 12s at 120mph but a 350rwhp camaro might run low 12s but its at about 10mph LESS.

It doesn't of course, and perhaps my experiences with imports has been limited to what is driven in my "neck of the woods," but I just don't see any daily driven 11 or 12 second imports around here. I see a number of 11 second V8 cars, and several faster that regularly drive the streets of my town however. But then again, in California it's hard to build fast cars with all the required smog equipment intact, though for V8's there are a number of smog legal heads, cams, blowers, etc... How about turbo kits for imports?

its a losing combination because its NOT WHAT EVERYONE WANTS. some people chose to go with a carbed big block in a 3rd gen to run low 11s or so. others go with a supercharged SBC or a turbocharged SBC to run the same times. sometimes it costs more. is that really any of your concern? further more, a basic turbo kit can be BUILT YOURSELF for less than 2500 bucks. the you need fuel so MAYBE a grand at the most, exhaust is another 4-500, and all the piping can be had for 230 bucks off honda tech. thats less than 4k total for a car that can make 350whp. and remember what i said 350whp in a teg with FULL INTERIOR can run? low 12s at 120mph. yes you can do full exhaust, and stall on an ls1 and run the same et but on the street, the integra will eat the camaro for lunch.

I agree with most of that, except the last sentence. A stalled LS1 will smack a turbo I4 around like crazy on the street, maybe on the highway from a roll it would be a better race, no?

not really a thinker. i dont think FWD was ever said to be better than RWD. except at power production. but yes RWD is superior to FWD for all those types of racing listed. but that doesnt mean a 9 second FWD car is any slower than a 9 second RWD car.

Nope, all I was trying to illustrate is that it takes more time, effort and money to do so, and that doing so doesn't make sense when there are far easier ways to achieve these speeds that don't turn the car into a full-on race car. Your budy's Civic seems to be an exception to an awful lot of rules, but ok.

that so? because i know a guy expecting to run in the 9s in his 4th gen with a t56. i think i know a bit about cars and drag racing, considering ive been around them for over 15 years.

Sorry, I've only been into drag racing for 13 years, so I'm stupid. Go count how many 9.90 bracket cars run manual transmissions, and compare it to autos. I bet it's a ratio of about 1:100. With an auto you can launch more consistently, don't have to worry about the clutch or launch as much, you can transbrake it, stall it to keep it in the powerband, plant the tires better, and mutiply torque before it locks up. Easier on the driveline as a whole, and more consistent through the lights. But I don't know what I'm talking about.

since we like to bench race around here, taner can swap in that 400 and the civic can just turn up the boost. i really dont see the point here? smog his car? bull****. that car wouldnt have been federally legal back in 1968 much less today.

I know 2 guys that have low eleven second mustangs that are fully smog legal in California, why build a fast car you can't drive except at the track?

what does a full on drag car have anything do with this arguement? o thats right, nothing. and junior, its not as simple as just pouring alcohol into the gas tank and go racing. but i would think someone with your automotive SUPREMACY should know that. :rolleyes:

Point out where I said he could? I said "step up to." This means replacing all rubber components of the fuel system with nitrile, replacing the fuel pump, filters, regulators, and rebuilding/rejetting the carb, and swapping out the spark plugs. Happy now?

wow thats special. just means he either isnt spraying much or cant drive for ****. but i dont see how a NITROUS injected honda is comparable to a TURBOCHARGED honda... :confused:

You would think both would be implemented regularly on imports, as nitrous oxide typically increases torque 50% more than horsepower, but I digress. Hell man, he said he was running a 75 shot, had slicks on, and had a B18 swap done. That's all I know, the rest I watched from my rearview mirror.

[quote]ya you go right ahead. then ill spend less and still be faster.

Until what point? Til you can't smog it anymore, or it doesn't run on pump gas, or what? There will always be a faster V8. That's all I'm sayin.

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 03:04 PM

I think after reading most of this I have become dumber....lol

One point I want to make 87camracer, I will not refute the power of the turbo , but I will refute your math.
You said:
further more, a basic turbo kit can be BUILT YOURSELF for less than 2500 bucks. the you need fuel so MAYBE a grand at the most, exhaust is another 4-500, and all the piping can be had for 230 bucks off honda tech. thats less than 4k total

now am I reading what youre saying wrong or does not

1000 fuel system
.450 Exh
.230 piping
____
1630 total

Where is the turbo, Blow off valve etc?

If you buy the turbo new a T-60 or equivalent is 2 grand by itself, the cheapest used t-04/5 T-60 etc are in the 1000 to 1500 range.

Please clarify.

Let me say a fast car is a fast car, I may not like hondas, or their sound, but I can respect the work put into one.

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 03:09 PM

If you buy the turbo new a T-60 or equivalent is 2 grand by itself, the cheapest used t-04/5 T-60 etc are in the 1000 to 1500 range.

Please clarify.

Let me say a fast car is a fast car, I may not like hondas, or their sound, but I can respect the work put into one.

maybe a ball bearing turbo but you can get 60-1turbos for $650 (http://store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart348artur.html) or less

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 03:20 PM

But wouldnt that T-3/4 turbo only get you into the 300-350 hp range on a GSR B18? wouldnt you need the T-60/62 etc for the extra airflow to put it closer to the 400 plus range?

Come on guys its only math you pump enough air and fuel into the motor and it will make power wether you like it or not. (hint you can put turbos on anything, even an LTx motor)

The thing is if you have enough ambition and know how you can make power with anything. A Honda responds very well to the boost yes, if you don't like it add some forged pistons to your LTX motor and see how 10 #s of boost feels in your own car. ( I am presently planning a single turbo set-up for my car, should be done by NEXT christmas)

Gos2Slo

08-06-2004, 03:22 PM

I wish I could man, but I can't get away with it here in california. I'd drive a TT C5 Vette in a heartbeat if I could. Room to work under the hood, whoohoo!

/damned smog nazis

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 03:23 PM

I'll register your car here for ya and you can do whatever you want :D

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 03:31 PM

Gos2Slo

08-06-2004, 03:35 PM

I'll register your car here for ya and you can do whatever you want :D
Hehe, DONT TEMPT ME!! I'm saving to buy a house, a TT anything project would kill that idea pretty quickly! lol

Besides, wouldn't the local cops give me crap about having out of state tags all the time?

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 03:37 PM

nah, the turbo I just showed you can make over 500 on the t3 housing and over 600 with a t4 housing. 350hp turbo is more like a mitusbishi 18g turbo. even small to4b's can make over 400hp

Thanks for the info, I am saving now for a single Garret GT35. I know my ambitions arent too high, but with a low 8 to 10 PSI on my cubes I should be able to make a good 500 rwhp @ 5800 to 6000 rpm.

How is your projects coming along anyway?

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 03:42 PM

Thanks for the info, I am saving now for a single Garret GT35. I know my ambitions arent too high, but with a low 8 to 10 PSI on my cubes I should be able to make a good 500 rwhp @ 5800 to 6000 rpm.

How is your projects coming along anyway?

get the GT35R it flows better and comes with an E housing. once spooled it wont stop pulling.

robvas

08-06-2004, 03:43 PM

Here's a local guy's 10.9x @ 138.x Civc engine bay

http://xceedspeed.com/forums/files/finished1.jpg

Not something you're going to build on a budget. Not to mention this isn't quite a street car,

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 03:50 PM

WS Sick

08-06-2004, 03:56 PM

Besides, wouldn't the local cops give me crap about having out of state tags all the time?

But you'd be the talk of the town with your Oklahoma plates...lol

robvas

08-06-2004, 04:00 PM

That setup looks very agressive for just 10.9's. minus that t4/t04e. most race cars are pushing t4/72 turbos. not saying I dont beleive you but thats kinda odd that he is using a street turbo on a race car. also that manifold has never been used before. has he ran that setup yet?

Of course he ran it, where do you think the time/MPH came from? God you're stupid. It went 11.3 the first time out.

FYI, here's a picture of the car and details on the old setup

http://www.payntechnologies.com/(vg5vgmz1pgl0lxyrophbvi55)/cars/yonikellman.html

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 04:06 PM

Of course he ran it, where do you think the time/MPH came from? God you're stupid.

I meant ran the setup in the pic. as opposed to another setup that could have ran those times. that manifold has never seen heat. why is it when a honda beats a domestic on this board you get so hostile? :p

robvas

08-06-2004, 04:08 PM

I'm not being hostile, you're just an annoying ****. I know Hondas can be fast. I don't care. I was posting a link to show some other people what a setup thats actually going to do something, looks like.

You're like the ****ing Jehovas Witnesses, telling us all **** we don't care about and don't want to hear. Go away!

RawAzzLT1

08-06-2004, 04:12 PM

KamaroL98

08-06-2004, 04:21 PM

No doubt hondas are fast, but saying they are better then pony cars in drag racing and makeing power is stupid. Its 10 times harder to get them to make the HP/torque and even harder to get them to run the times a V8 can. Take my LS1 for example. I ran 11.50s@120 with nitto drag radials $300, whisper lid$100, and a flowmaster catback$300, some colder spark plugs $20. . And a dry kit spraying a 150 shot, and STOCK tune and weight. Then i drove it all the way back home 2 hours and ran it again in the street every weekend for a long time. Its hard to beat that bang for buck wise. Besides the nitrous those are common things done everyone has so its as street car as you can possibly be. But that was pretty simple for me, the hardest part was actualy very fun. Getting good 60fts. :) Noone with a honda can do it that simple.

Steve Y

08-07-2004, 12:23 PM

Raw and 87Cam are clueless retarded monkeys. Have you guys ever been to the dragstrip? V8s own big time. 4 cylinders don't have a snowballs chance in hell against an equally modded V8. I have NEVER been to the track and not seen the fastest car as a V8, and I have gone 100s of times for 15+ years. Raw, let's compare a near stock daily driver 14 second Mustang to a 9.5 second turboed to within an inch of it's life, barely streetable "street car." People have gone 13.6s in bone stock cars like mine. With my mods they have gone high 12s to low 13s. I just don't drive as good as them. The fastest bone stock Civic (for sale in america) has gone what, mid 15s? :eek: About a 2 second difference. What do you think would happen if my Stang had the same mods as the 9.5 second Civic? I would run 8s or better. And this 350 whp 'teg that runs low 12s at 120. It only takes an LS1 tires and a 150 shot to beat this "great" 'teg on the strip, highway or anywhere in a straight line. So the LS1 needed $1000 worth of brand new parts and the 'teg needs $4000+ worth of brand new parts. Like I said earlier, small engines suck, Hondas suck, Civics suck, and fwd sucks compared to big engines, Stangs and Camaros and rwd for drag racing. The only place these Civics shine is fuel economy and reliability. :alert:

NightWindDriftr

08-07-2004, 01:22 PM

so I've had my answer over a span of more than a dozen pages. just like I thought, too: it's not practical to create a quick Civic. there are no particular advantages to doing so and there's too much money to be spent. oh, and your car looks like ass. I actually like the plain-Jane look of a Civic (GASP), but it definitely doesn't look race-inspired. especially the RSX, with its tagline being "if only the world were as (potato sack) race inspired". oh the irony...

time and time again, I keep asking myself: where does the Civic fit in? Civics are the "every other car" you see. when someone thinks rice, their mind automatically shifts to a Civic with an identity crisis. when someone asks for a good car with great MPGs, you want to say "get a Civic". when your girlfriend complains that she's tired of "falling into" your f-car rather than "getting into", you're going to want to get her a Civic (or Mustang :D). a Civic is the basic definition of car which is meant to house two distinct things: an I4 and 4 asses - and one purpose: to get from A to B without spending (C x 10) on gas.

I could definitely respect the money and work that goes into making a fast Civ but aside from that, you're looking at a guy bitten hard by the modbug while looking in the wrong direction. I wouldn't be a sore loser and laugh if a Civic burned me, but I would be questioning why he didn't take at least a V6 and put even more car lengths on me. although it doesn't happen all the time, it's not a groundbreaking thing for an I4 to toast a V8.

why not own cars that are purpose-built? which is why I want to own a Civic one day, but definitely not for the intents and purposes spoken here. they make great daily drivers, and they're awesome for

fuel economy and reliability.

Steve Y

08-07-2004, 05:55 PM