Nomad now not a certainty, part 2

guionM
07-01-2004, 11:10 AM
Part 1 dealt with the issue GM was having over consumer clinics on the car. However, since GM's upper brass seemed to be unified in their support of the car, I didn't believe it was going to be much of an issue. If it got down to brass tacks, I'd expected Gary Cowger or Bob Lutz to simply push it to production anyway. But there seems to be another, more serious wall now blocking it.

Cheers and Gears has many GM and industry insiders who post there. The site tends to be a very credible source of information, and typically aren't moved by nastygrams from GM, though sensitive material that threatens other posters tend to be deleted.

With that as a background, according to info over there, the Chevrolet Nomad, though very much well into development, has had the brakes slammed on by the guys who pay for these type of things. Evidently, this is in spite of the fact that GM upper management is in favor of the car! This includes Rick Wagoners, Bob Lutz, Gary Cowger, Chevrolet, and of course Ed Welburn. At Ford, that type of support would be enough. At GM, it isn't.

GM is run like the government (in theory) in that there is a series of checks and balences, and that no one person or area can dictate what sees production or doesn't.

The final authority is beancounters. GM being a business, is in the business to make money. Also, the larger the business, the more sluggish and clumsy it is. GM right now actually has the ability to do the engineering to bring a car to market faster than it's approval process can manage. While a car can be engineered in less than 2 years from scratch, it still has to clear countless hurdles, be subjected to countless studies, and at any level, the car can be halted, and kicked back for more study, analysis, or additional cost cutting. Aparently, this is what happened to Nomad.

Ford's engineering isn't quite up to the speed of GMs, but Ford's approval process is much much quicker, and less subject to being derailed once a project is started. Ford is capable of bringing a car to market between 2 to 3 years (the GT was an exception at 18 months), but because of Ford's more streamlined approval process, a car can actually hit the streets within 3 years if upper management approves. Chrysler (once the quickest company to bring out new cars) now has to route approval through Daimler in Germany. Till last summer it seemed a loosing proposition, but now it seems that there was a blanket approval, so Chrysler has a mind bending amout of new vehicles scheduled over the next few years.

To be sure, the Chevrolet Nomad isn't going to sell at 100,000 vehicles per year. But considering the potential price, the number of Chevrolet dealers, the early success of the Dodge Magnum, and that there's a bigger market for 4 passenger harttops than there is for 2 passenger convertibles all but makes the Nomad certain to be the biggest selling Kappa car, and the most likely to sustain it's sales once the newness wears off because it's very practical (PT Cruisers are still selling at 100,000 per year).

GM should absolutely, positively make the Chevrolet Nomad. It's small, useful, sporty, and unique. If these reports of Nomad being blocked is true, this is one instance IMO where the beancounters got it wrong.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3554

Z284ever
07-01-2004, 11:36 AM
Nomad seems to be a smash hit with everyone......except the public.

I went to the Chicago Auto Show three times this year. Whenever I'd go over to check out the Nomad (again)....I always noticed that I was the only one looking at it.

It's such a neat idea....but somehow it's missing something. Something I can't quite put my finger on.
It has a bold face...yet somehow get's lost in the crowd. It's a reasonably cool car...yet doesn't have the impact of the '99 Nomad Concept, or even the production Magnum.

dream '94 Z28
07-01-2004, 11:45 AM
For me it was the front end styling. I jsut didn't like the 'modern interpretation of a '53 'Vette' theme.

It's really a great idea hindered by bad styling.

Z284ever
07-01-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by dream '94 Z28
For me it was the front end styling. I jsut didn't like the 'modern interpretation of a '53 'Vette' theme.

It's really a great idea hindered by bad styling.

Yeah, styling was part of it. It's a good attempt.....but not a bullseye.

The other thing, and maybe more importantly, is it's utility. Ok it's a wagon....which is cool....but if you want to carry anything in it......groceries, luggage, golf clubs...the rear seat needs to be folded. It is really small back there. I think wagons are cool....but there's not much point to them, if they don't have lots of utility.

Dante93GTZ
07-01-2004, 11:59 AM
What the hell is GM's problem? I used to think good things at GM were coming, but it all seems to fizzle when it actually comes to producing something new and affordable.

The F-Body is gone.... then replaced with the GTO and now GM has only really come out with one new car - the SSR. Correct me if I'm wrong but where is the new, exciting, affordable car for the working man?

The Cobalt is cool and all and probably priced right for what you get, but myself, being 22 and feeling 30ish, I want something a little more "mature" while still having a sporty feel to it as well... I don't want to drive around a Civic-esque car for too much longer.

falchulk
07-01-2004, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Z284ever
Yeah, styling was part of it. It's a good attempt.....but not a bullseye.

The other thing, and maybe more importantly, is it's utility. Ok it's a wagon....which is cool....but if you want to carry anything in it......groceries, luggage, golf clubs...the rear seat needs to be folded. It is really small back there. I think wagons are cool....but there's not much point to them, if they don't have lots of utility.

The back does not have to be that big to be useful. Look at the vibes, you would not think there was any room behind the rear seats. Turns out you can fit tons of stuff back there.

Z28Wilson
07-01-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Z284ever
yet doesn't have the impact of the '99 Nomad Concept, or even the production Magnum.

I for one much prefer the newer attempt at the Nomad to the '99 concept. The '99 was just, well....ugly. But you're right, if Nomad is going to go in production in some form it probably should be based on something larger than Kappa. Why not "Large" Zeta? There's your perfect wagon platform.....

Z284ever
07-01-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by falchulk
The back does not have to be that big to be useful. Look at the vibes, you would not think there was any room behind the rear seats. Turns out you can fit tons of stuff back there.

That's my point, you cannot fit tons of stuff back there on the Nomad.

Forget about tons of stuff....if you want to get any "stuff" at all in there, the back seat needs to be folded.

Z284ever
07-01-2004, 12:17 PM
BTW, according to GM press releases, the Nomad wasn't intended to be a Magnum competitor....it was intended as a Mini Cooper competitor.

Big Als Z
07-01-2004, 12:34 PM
hyrbird....do it GM, make it a hyrbid.

dream '94 Z28
07-01-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Z284ever
Yeah, styling was part of it. It's a good attempt.....but not a bullseye.

The other thing, and maybe more importantly, is it's utility. Ok it's a wagon....which is cool....but if you want to carry anything in it......groceries, luggage, golf clubs...the rear seat needs to be folded. It is really small back there. I think wagons are cool....but there's not much point to them, if they don't have lots of utility.

I didn't a chance to see the interior. I saw this as a Golf competitor for the younger crowd.

Myself, I'd like a diesel version for hauling the mountain bike around.

jrp4uc
07-01-2004, 01:23 PM
Yes, the Nomad is certainly a Mini Cooper competitor. It'd be nice with a redone front clip and an aggressive (well south of Mini) price. How about following the same formula as the original and borrowing cues from today's Corvette?! I think GM will find HHR and SSR are more than enough retro for one brand's lineup.

number77
07-01-2004, 01:43 PM
heavy cars are the new suv's but GM would have to fix the styling. The dodge is wayyy better looking.

jg95z28
07-01-2004, 01:45 PM
You know something... I might actually consider a ECOTEC powered subcompact if it is a) sporty, b) puts out 200+ ponies, c) is priced under $15k. :D

Dante93GTZ
07-01-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by jg95z28
You know something... I might actually consider a ECOTEC powered subcompact if it is a) sporty, b) puts out 200+ ponies, c) is priced under $15k. :D

Under $15k.... better pass the stuff... :p

dnovotny
07-01-2004, 02:43 PM
Vent time since I would like to remain a GM guy; This decision is one more reason why our next two cars will be a Dodge Magnum for the wife and a Ford/Chrysler V8 rwd car for me. Although I have the "money" and salary to buy a Vette or CTS-V I believe in value too. Value in my mind is 30K for a reasonably equipped V8 rwd car (a turbocharged 4 might've worked, particularly since I really liked Nomad's styling). Spoiled by the 4th gen, absolutely. I'm not spoiled by house prices though, entry point for something around here is 500K. Just one more reason why "value" is so important. A beancounter should be able to understand this concept. :rolleyes:

MissedShift
07-01-2004, 04:54 PM
General Motors and the US Congress are capable of killing projects like bugspray into a beehive... And only half the time is there a good reason. The other half is because of political infighting...Pure and simple.

:mad:

guionM
07-01-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by MissedShift
General Motors and the US Congress are capable of killing projects like bugspray into a beehive... And only half the time is there a good reason. The other half is because of political infighting...Pure and simple.

:mad:


Perhaps that is the case here, but there isn't any info supporting that.

GM has a huge amount of vehicles in the pipeline and a limited amount of cash. Unlike Ford & Chrysler, who are hungry & willing to take chances, GM is a large conservative company. As long as they are gaining market share & are selling 'X' million vehicles per year, they are set up to sustain that.

GM has never really did niche cars before, so the built in mentality is "What's the point?".

Getting a Camaro isn't an issue (just waiting for a chassis). Winning money to get a Holden built GTO to replace the Grand Prix coupe is all but childsplay. Getting a coupe where none exists at Cadillac and Buick, or a low cost sports car at Pontiac (where the Firebird left a lineup gap) or at Saturn to boost showroom traffic is relatively easy at GM if you clear the basic hurdles.

But how do you justify a car like the Nomad for a division that's going to be chock-blocked full of products within a few years, and sells more models than the rest of GM combined?

I'm not defending GM, mind you. Though I believe GM is going to sell cars forever, and they really don't need to move quickly to survive (though I sometimes sound otherwise), when you see how quickly other car makers react to market changes & public praise for a concept idea, GM tends to be the last one able to wallow to the party.

I perfectly understand the "why" behind slamming the brakes on the Nomad (I'm not 100% sure it's politics this time). It's just that there's bigger fish to fry that have bigger payoffs instead of spending more time & money on a car the public seems to be luke-warm on.

It's just that I think that being that the car is a no loss proposition, it's a very, very big mistake to delay or cancel the car.

305fan
07-01-2004, 07:57 PM
I like it beter the the Solstice. Looks great to me

IMPALA64
07-01-2004, 11:51 PM
The Nomad should be based on a new full size Caprice(which we still need) Just like they used to be. A Nomad should be a large, rwd V8 powered wagon.

Big Als Z
07-02-2004, 01:36 AM
The Nomad is fine the way it is.
Make it a turbo ecotec combined with a hyrbid motor giving about 50mpg or so, market it heavily for city use and show off the ability to hold a lot of people along with stuff, and show off how it can also take you out of the city and you can cruse around the suburbs in style and still have a great looking car with good handling and the like....

No V8's, no magnum-sized cars... Nomad would make even a great Golf/Audi A3 and BMW 1 series compeditor. Give it to Opel...they will come up with something.